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Nancy Grace
Zimmerman Takes the Stand in Bond Hearing
Aired April 20, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Sanford, Florida. A 17-year-old heads home to his dad`s condo, gunned down by the captain of neighborhood watch. Forty-four days after the shooting death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, an arrest goes down, George Zimmerman facing murder two charges. Zimmerman, in protective custody, spends his first night crying inconsolably behind bars.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, for the very first time, Trayvon Martin`s parents face to face with the man charged with gunning down their son. Zimmerman takes the stand in a surprise move as the judge sets a $150,000 bond. Zimmerman on the stand under oath says to the parents, I`m sorry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All throughout the hearing, Tracy Martin had tears in his eyes as he watched the killer of his son.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH SECOND DEGREE MURDER: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, that were you sorry for what you`d done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never stated that, did you.
ZIMMERMAN: I don`t remember what I said. I believe I did say that. In one of the statements, I said that I felt sorry for the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did? You`re saying you expressed that concern for the loss of Mr. Martin, or that you had shot Mr. Martin, that you actually felt sorry for him?
ZIMMERMAN: I felt sorry they lost their child, yes. I didn`t know if they were going to convey it or not. I just made the statement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim`s mother, father and mother -- why did you wait so long to tell them?
ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.
I remember giving three statements, yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree that you changed your story as it went along?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to grant the motion, set bond in the amount of $150,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was devastating that he got to give a self- serving apology to help him get a bond. They were very outraged at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, for the very first time, Trayvon Martin`s parents face to face with the man charged with gunning down their son, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman takes the stand. The judge sets $150,000 bond, while Zimmerman under oath says to Trayvon Martin`s parents, I`m sorry.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent, standing by at the courthouse. Today, bond hearing in front of a new judge, what happened?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, well, it was a hearing that many people thought was going to be interesting, perhaps a bit dramatic. It was way beyond that, lots of drama.
It turned into what appeared to be almost a trial at points for the lead investigator being questioned by the defense attorney. There were holes he was attempting to poke into the case.
But most important was that apology that was made by George Zimmerman as he gets on the stand under oath, speaks out to the family in the courtroom. This is something he said he wanted to do in private. The family of Trayvon Martin had turned him down, so he thought this was the only opportunity he would get, and he did it. Clearly, that caught the prosecution off guard.
But the bottom line is, he will go free with $150,000 bond. When he will be released still to be worked out, security a very large concern, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, Martin Savidge, something you said really is striking a chord with me.
Everybody, in the last hours, George Zimmerman charged with murder two in the shooting death of an unarmed 17-year-old, Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman, the captain of neighborhood watch, appears in court wearing a suit and tie. According to sources, also wearing a bulletproof vest in court, in full shackle at the waist, a chain around him as if he were going to run. But with that number of sheriffs and law enforcement around him, no way was that going to happen. Zimmerman in court asking for a bond, a bond set at $150,000.
But in a stunning move today, Zimmerman put on the stand. That is extremely, extremely rare that you get a defendant in a criminal case, much less a murder trial, getting on the stand before he`s got to face the stand. He issues an apology to Trayvon Martin`s family.
You know, Martin, you said that it is the most important thing that happened today, but Martin, I disagree with you because when and if this goes to trial, that apology -- it don`t mean a thing. The jury`s going to believe it or not believe it.
But what really stuck in my mind, Martin Savidge, the questions that were asked of the state`s lead investigator, and he didn`t know the answers, Martin! What the hey?
SAVIDGE: Right. Exactly. There were times where it appeared that the prosecution was totally unprepared. In fact, at one moment, they said they didn`t realize it was going to be a trial. And those questions were clearly asked and it was clear...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait!
SAVIDGE: ... that they did not have the answers...
GRACE: Wait! Whoa!
SAVIDGE: ... the lead investigator...
GRACE: You come into court, Trayvon Martin`s shooting case, and you don`t think you might have to answer questions? You`d better be locked and loaded when you go into court every single time, Martin Savidge! They said they didn`t think it was going to be a trial? What do they think that witness stand is for? You bring in your lead investigator into court, of course they`re going to put him on the stand, start asking him questions.
So Martin, did you notice what I noticed, they didn`t have the answers? The state did not have the answers.
SAVIDGE: No. There were clear points where they asked on the issue, Why did you use the term profile? How is that word, that specific word -- why didn`t you use other particular words to describe it? Why profile?
There was no real clear answer to that other than, well, apparently a number of them had discussed what word. That was the word that was used. Then there were others used, "confrontation." It was said that George Zimmerman confronted Trayvon Martin. Again, Mark O`Mara saying, How did you come up with the word "confront"? What evidence do you have that it was an actual confrontation? Could it have been that they just met?
So and on Mark O`Mara hammered at this document, hammered at the investigator`s statements, and it appeared that the state did not have the answers that they thought they had.
GRACE: You know, Martin, you`re right. And I`m not saying that they don`t have the answers somewhere. They didn`t have them today.
Out to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session." Beth, during that hearing -- you`ve been on the case with all of us. Beth, the lead investigator didn`t seem to know any evidence to contradict Zimmerman`s version of the events. He didn`t seem to have any evidence as to who initiated the physical contact. In other words, did Zimmerman start it or did Trayvon Martin start it? He didn`t seem to have any evidence that Zimmerman did or did not return to his vehicle after that 911 call.
And Beth, look, you were a trial lawyer just like me, and in a very, very busy jurisdiction. It`s very important as to whether Zimmerman went back to his car because his story revolves around him leaving the situation and going back to his car.
They didn`t have any of the answers, Beth.
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Absolutely. And it was very striking. You know, the state was relying on the probable cause affidavit at this hearing. It was clear they were not going to put on more evidence. So it should not have come as a surprise that the defense attorney was going to challenge the basis for some of the statements in that probable cause affidavit.
This investigator signed that affidavit, so you would think he would be intimately familiar with the underlying facts for every statement made in it. The state obviously believes Trayvon Martin`s girlfriend`s version of what she heard in talking to Trayvon shortly before the shooting, and they discounted Zimmerman`s.
But he couldn`t give any evidence or chose not to give any reason for why they discount Zimmerman`s version.
GRACE: Yes, the big headline is today -- Beth, you`re absolutely right. The big headline is that a bond has been granted to the tune of $150,000. Zimmerman does not have to cough up $150,000, to my understanding of the Florida law. In the jurisdiction where I practiced -- out to you, John Von Achen, bail bondsman, Orlando -- doesn`t he have to dig up 10 percent of that in order to get out of jail?
JOHN VON ACHEN, BAIL BONDSMAN (via telephone): Yes, he does, Nancy, $15,000.
GRACE: And what part of that, John Von Achen, can be the house? Can they put the house up for collateral?
VON ACHEN: Well, that`s a separate issue. The first thing is the 10 percent of the bond, and then the house will secure that $150,000.
GRACE: OK, repeat?
VON ACHEN: The 10 percent is the premium, 10 percent of the bond, and then the house can be used as collateral for the $150,000.
GRACE: I get it. I get it. With me is John Von Achen, bail bondsman out of that jurisdiction, Orlando. John, I`m not sure I get it. He puts the house up to secure the remainder, but he`s got to cough up $15,000 cash, right?
VON ACHEN: Somewhat. The $15,000 is the 10 percent. The indemnitors -- that would be his parents, who have already said in the hearing today that they would sign over their house -- their responsibility is $150,000. So they would put up their house and the bondsman would put a mortgage against the house for $150,000. But just concerning this bond. It`s for nothing else.
GRACE: Von Achen, are you surprised that Zimmerman was brought in in full shackle with a chain around his waist?
VON ACHEN: Yes, I was. With as much security as there was in that courthouse and the courtroom, I was very surprised.
GRACE: Typically, do you see that in a case with so much security? And what was the point of having him in full shackle?
VON ACHEN: I have no idea. I have no idea.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Elizabeth Parker (ph), former Florida prosecutor, John Manuelian, defense attorney, LA, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Elizabeth Parker joining me out of Florida, thank you for being with us. Elizabeth, as I watched the hearing go down, it felt to me that the state was very focused on the apology, and they ripped Zimmerman to shreds on the apology, which that and a dollar might get you a cup of coffee.
Nobody cares about the apology in front of a jury because a jury either will believe the apology is sincere or they won`t. So to me, that was very theatrical because there`s not really probative. Of course, a defendant`s going to say I`m sorry. Of course, they are.
What disturbed me is, A, the tack they took, Elizabeth. They were -- the louder and more bombastic the state got, the quieter and more pitiful George Zimmerman seemed to get. And comparing the two, it almost resulted in making you feel sorry for Zimmerman.
ELIZABETH PARKER, FORMER FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: I agree, Nancy. You know, I think the state took a big hit today in this hearing. And you know, you don`t have a case here where we don`t -- we didn`t know who did it. He admitted he did it from day one. So it`s not unusual for a defendant not to apologize because his lawyers won`t let him.
GRACE: What about it, Clements? You`ve been on the prosecution side, as well as the defense. There are times when you have just got to tear the defendant a new one and it`s your duty. But today, making such a big deal about the apology but then not having your act together when it came down to the fundamentals of the case -- I found a problem with that, Kirby.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, I`ve got to tell you, the prosecution in this case just -- they bungled this thing from day one. It was inexcusable, what they did in their failure today. Totally inexcusable.
GRACE: OK, Manuelian, weigh in.
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Prosecution dropped the ball, you`re right, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, the prosecution dropped the ball how? They opposed bond. What do you mean, Manuelian?
MANUELIAN: The investigator had no idea what happened, whether there was a confrontation, and it made it seem like they didn`t have enough evidence to arrest him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The case, state of Florida versus George Zimmerman. At issue, bond.
ZIMMERMAN: I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. I did not know if he was armed or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?
ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got to give a self-serving apology. They were very outraged at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My client wants to make a statement to the court, your honor.
ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just heard a loud gunshot outside and then screaming stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s stressed. He`s tired. He`s been through a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the scars on the back of his head and his face swollen and everything the next morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charging George Zimmerman with murder in the second degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you to consider a reasonable bond in the amount of $15,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s following. He was the aggressor!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He should be held under no bond, or if the court were to set a bond, it would be a million dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon is running away from him. Trayvon was just trying to get back to the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His face was swollen quite a bit. He had a protective cover over his nose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree that you changed your story as it went along?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, George Zimmerman in court. A bond has been granted to the tune of $150,000. That means Zimmerman and his family have to cough up about $15,000.
We are taking your calls. To Deborah Roberts, news anchor, Florida News Network. Was there discussion of a witness who saw one person running, chasing another in the direction of where Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin ended up?
DEBORAH ROBERTS, FLORIDA NEWS NETWORK: There was some discussion of it. However, there was no determination as to whether or not that that was included as in fact in the probable cause affidavit.
GRACE: And to you, Beth Karas. It also came out it`s in the shadows, so no one could determine who was chasing who. But it does counter Zimmerman`s claim that he had walked back to his vehicle, and that suddenly, there was Trayvon Martin.
KARAS: Yes. We really need to know what this person saw in terms of from what vantage point, what the opportunity was to observe, what the lighting conditions were like. and could it possibly have been the taller of the two running after the shorter one, which would mean Martin running after Zimmerman as he walked toward his car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZIMMERMAN: George Michael Zimmerman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, you are not really addressing that to the court. You`re doing it here to the victim`s family, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. But I thought you were going to address your honor, Judge Lester, not -- so that`s really addressed to the family and to where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?
ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?
ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn`t it true that in some of those statements, when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started saying, I don`t remember?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outside the scope of direct examination. I would object, Your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll give him a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot, but a little bit here, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t it true that when you were questioned and you were -- questioned about the contradictions in your statements, that the police didn`t believe it, and you would say, I don`t remember?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will grant his motion at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree that you changed your story as it went along?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. In the last hours, George Zimmerman in court in full shackle, dressed out as you see there in a suit. Reports that he was also fitted with a bulletproof vest, shackled at the waist, surrounded by sheriffs.
We are taking your calls. Out to Jan in California. Hi, Jan. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I am concerned about whether or not the Florida prosecutors may be overcharging George Zimmerman, as many feel that they did in the Casey Anthony case. You know, I`ve heard the definition of second-degree murder described by you and many others with words like malice and depravity.
I think that George Zimmerman probably is sorry, kind of like the criminal that got caught after he committed the crime. Do you think that prosecutors will be able to get a conviction under that charge, based on the definition of second degree?
GRACE: Well, you know, Jan in California, the lay definition of depravity is very different from the legal definition of depravity.
Out to you, Beth Karas. It`s really not that hard to get a conviction under murder two. And Jan`s barking up the wrong tree with me. I thought it should have been a murder one charge and then let the jury decide. But on depravity, explain the alternatives the jury has, Beth.
KARAS: Well, this theory of second-degree murder does not require that intent be proven. The key element that distinguished it from manslaughter is that the prosecution has to show some sort of ill will or evil or spite, evil intent, spite, but not an intentional killing, just an intentional underlying act. So it`s sort of ill will or spite.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And what they`re going to do in this case, Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent joining us there at the courthouse, is satisfy one of those prongs, ill will. They`ll claim on this 911 tape that they hear Zimmerman using a racial slur. That`s what they`re going to claim, and that he went into the scenario angry over prior burglaries. And so a simple showing of ill will will satisfy depravity.
SAVIDGE: That`s exactly right, Nancy. That`s what they`ve alluded to. That`s what they`ll stick with on the part of the state.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The case, state of Florida vs. George Zimmerman. At issue, bond.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, DEFENDANT: I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: The father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.
BENJAMIN CRUMP, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: He got to give a self-serving apology. They were very outraged at that.
MARK O`MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S ATTORNEY: You`ve heard mom and dad testify.
GLADYS ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S MOTHER (via telephone): He`s very protective of people and very protective also of children.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S FATHER (via telephone): His face was swollen quite a bit.
RIONDA: Would you agree that you changed your story as it went along?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not.
O`MARA: I`m asking you to consider a reasonable bond in the amount of $15,000.
RIONDA: Our position is that he still will be a danger to the community and based on the crime he should be either kept on no bond or the bond should be a million dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE JUDGE: I`m going to grant the motion and set bond in the amount of $150,000.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Welcome back. In the last hours, George Zimmerman, the captain of neighborhood watch, charged with murder two in the shooting death of an unarmed young 17-year-old man, Trayvon Martin. You see a lot of snippets here and there. It goes downhill for the state.
We are taking your calls.
Joining me right now Erika Del Sordo, investigated reporter out of Florida.
Erica, bottom line, he got $150,000 bond. Were Trayvon Martin`s family -- parents, the mother and father, were they in court?
ERIKA DEL SORDO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: They were in court today, yes.
GRACE: And what was their reaction, Ericka?
SORDO: Very reaction seemed to me like they were hoping that it was a little bit more. They were definitely a little bit happier that it was not, I guess, set where the defense wanted the bond at $15,000. But they got $150,000. They didn`t seem too happy, but it is what it is.
GRACE: Joining me right now to special guest the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family, Daryl Parks is with us and speaking on behalf of George Zimmerman who attended the bond hearing today, Frank Taaffe.
Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
Mr. Parks, what`s the family reaction after today?
DARYL PARKS, TRAYVON MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Nancy, they are devastated from the court`s ruling today. As you can see when they came out of court, they couldn`t even talk. I mean, they didn`t even appear at the news conference. They went straight to their vehicle and exited the courthouse complex. I tell you, they were hoping for a lot better. They are very, very hurt today, but they abide by the court`s ruling and hope that we can move forward to convict Mr. Zimmerman.
GRACE: Daryl, what about today`s ruling disappointed them so much?
PARKS: Well, you know, I think that they all along have kind of seem where Mr. Zimmerman has not been held accountable for his past and for what happened in this case. So the things that they said to the witness, I tell you, Tracy Martin could barely hold his seat. I mean, he almost was ready to leave early, and we convinced him, hey, let`s wait and let the court finish its announcement. But he was devastated, and I think as you look at the foot age from him leaving, he could barely keep it together. So it was a very tough day for him.
GRACE: I`m trying to figure out which aspect of today disturbed them the most, the fact that a bond was set at all?
PARKS: Well, no, I think we heard various things that talked about -- there were several things talked about -- talked about the propensity for violence that Mr. Zimmerman had illustrated in his past, right, in the course of the hearing we heard certain explanations that were given and how the court viewed those things.
As our clients heard those things from the court, it really, really caught them in the heart because it appeared to them, as they told me, that, you know, it seems like he`s given so many different chances when my son never had a chance on that night.
GRACE: And you, as their lawyer, I mean, this is what I`ve been screaming since 1979 when my fiance was murdered. But you, as their lawyer, did explain to them that Zimmerman has a right to appear in court. He has a right to speak in court. He has the right to make an apology if he wants, that`s how what he wants to say on the stand, he can. He has the right to have a bond set, a reasonable if it is a bondable offense. I mean, they knew what could happen today, right?
PARKS: Well, one difference. Number one, we told them yesterday we did not want to hear his apology. Number two, when you take the stand at a bond hearing, you are coming to direct evidence to the court`s attention concerning possibility of you being released and what the conditions should be.
When a lawyer puts you on the stand and you`re supposed to offer evidence to the court, they didn`t offer not one scintilla of evidence to the court. Instead, he takes the stand. His lawyer leans back so he can have line of sight with Sybrina and Tracy so he can offer his unwelcomed apology.
And so to do that even though they told him now wasn`t the time for that was a slap in the face to them that they would do it anyway, for it to be so self-serving to them. So they --
GRACE: Mr. Parks, may I ask you a question? You are an attorney, a very good standing. Have you ever heard a defendant in a criminal case take the stand and say something that was not self-serving? Have you ever heard one just get up and confess and tell the whole thing? I haven`t. So, I mean, what did they expect Zimmerman to do?
PARKS: Well, first of all, Nancy, you would think that this is a very, very highly sensitive case, right?
GRACE: Yes.
PARKS: So we made it very clear to them yesterday that there would be a time and place for that.
GRACE: You made it clear to who?
PARKS: We made it clear to Zimmerman publicly that, yes, they had told us that they wanted to offer an apology. There would be a proper time and place for that, and there will be. However, coming in this particular setting at a bond hearing is not that type of setting. And, yes, we counseled -- we talked and told them about what the laws in Florida are in certain situations with bond. They understand that right.
It still does not negate the situation that their son is dead, right, this guy walked around free for so long and within a week he`s being released. You have to under, they`re victims. They don`t see --
GRACE: I know. You know, Daryl, I think part of it was just seeing him regardless -- if he had not said he was sorry, I think they would have been upset that he didn`t say he was sorry. If he does say he`s sorry, it`s self-serving.
I think just the shock of seeing the man charged with gunning down their son, he could have done a back flip and I think that their hearts would still be just as broken right now no matter what Zimmerman did.
I was very surprised, Mr. Taaffe, that he took the stand at all. Weigh in, Frank Taaffe.
FRANK TAAFFE, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S FRIEND: Well, first of all, we`re elated with Judge Lester`s decision to give George bond today. I would say that that was George being George. He was sincere. He was composed. And I think Angela Corey and the lead investigator need to start a new show dancing with the stars because they were tap dancing all day.
GRACE: Joining me Daryl Parks, attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family, and spokesperson for George Zimmerman, Frank Taaffe.
First of all, to you, Mr. Taaffe, do you believe it helped George Zimmerman to take the stand today?
TAAFFE: Absolutely. George is being George. Nancy, a couple weeks ago you wanted to see blood on a shirt. Now you have blood on the head. So, America, you have your blood. I`m also going to share with you this, that was a photo of George Zimmerman, and I know who the neighbor was that took it. And he came forward only to support George Zimmerman. And more of our neighbors are coming out --
GRACE: So, I`m taking it to believe --
TAAFFE: Are coming out to support him. They are going to support him.
GRACE: All right, to you, Daryl Parks, in response to my question, did it help him or hurt him to make the surprise move to take the stand today, Mr. Parks?
PARKS: I think it`s too early to judge, Nancy. This was a bond hearing. And so him taking the stand was for his bond purposes only. When they try to get to weigh the evidence in the case, the prosecution in no type of way was going to put on the evidence in today`s hearing and they didn`t. So to criticize them for the small evidence they did offer is not to the case.
GRACE: Hold on Parks.
TAAFFE: You`re grabbing at straws.
GRACE: You are right. I don`t think your name is Daryl Parks, unless you`ve had a legal name change. But, Parks, here is my problem with him not having the answers. No, this is not in front of a jury, so in the big scheme it doesn`t matter.
But, when the same witness gets on the stand at jury time, he`s going to be cross-examined on the fact that today, April 20, he didn`t know the answer to any of these questions. That`s going to be a problem at trial. Mark my words on that.
TAAFFE: Beyond a reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Take Taaffe down.
PARKS: It`s important --
GRACE: Go ahead, Parks.
PARKS: That they would take us through the probable cause affidavit right, and they were going line by line. It was clear to me. I was in the courtroom that this guy didn`t quite understand the questions Mr. O`Mara was trying to get into.
When we get in trial, you`re going to have live witnesses presenting the evidence. But most importantly, the lawyers will be able to put into context in their opening statement and in the closing. So, I think you got to take into this totality --
GRACE: Mr. Daryl parks, you`re a lawyer and you know as well as I do, don`t ever leave anything up to a lawyer. If you want it done right, you`d better do it yourself. So they`d better get ready for one hell of a cross- examination on this witness come jury time.
Mr. Parks and you, Taaffe, thank you for being with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN: Well, his face was swollen quite a bit. He had a protective cover over his nose. His lip was swollen and cut, and there were two vertical gashes on the back of his head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: George Zimmerman`s bond hearing --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And George Zimmerman, the Florida watch volunteer, now an accused murderer.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours George Zimmerman, the captain of neighborhood watch, now charged in the shooting death of unarmed 17-year- old Trayvon Martin, in court and in a surprise move takes the stand.
Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent, there outside the courthouse. Was everyone surprised that he took the stand, number one? Number two, I`m sure you saw that blood y photo of the back of Zimmerman`s head pouring blood. CNN has decided not to show the photo. I`ve seen the photo. It is gory.
Are you surprised that his move to take the stand and, two, at that photo, Martin Savidge?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT I was surprised, yes, that he took the stand. I think many of the reporters were surprised. We thought we would hear George Zimmerman. We were wondering what exactly he might say or whether we`d get a complete sentence. Because the last thing he said at his first appearance was, yes, sir.
So, this was far more than anybody anticipated and it was quite remarkable because it was the apology we heard he wanted to make in private.
The bloody photograph I`ve seen it as well. It`s quite striking. You cannot tell by the photograph I saw who that person is. It is said to be George Zimmerman, and it is said to be taken just moments after apparently the altercation and it is quite bloody. You can see what appears to be damage done to the back of his head, so it would support his version of events.
GRACE: It looks like the back of his head. He`s got on -- you can see the top of his collar, a red leather jacket. You know, it`s either him or somebody went to a heck of a lot of trouble to doctor a photo and create one. I was very surprised to see the photo. I was very surprised that he took the stand. Do you think they were prepared for that, Martin Savidge?
SAVIDGE: No, I don`t think the prosecution was prepared at all. In many respects but he is especially with that particular statement, the apology, because it was quite clear when you saw Mr. Dela Rionda came back on him, George Zimmerman, he was very much on the aggressive assault. And as you already pointed out, George Zimmerman seemed to hold up under that very strong cross-examination and the state didn`t appear to do any damage.
So, you know, George Zimmerman was looked more human, and that`s something that his attorney has wanted the public to see.
GRACE: You know, I`m glad you brought that up, Martin Savidge, because to you, detective lieutenant Steve Rogers. Let`s follow up on what Martin Savidge`s pointed out, the effort by O`Mara to make Zimmerman, quote, "more human."
Did you notice, Steve, that he looks awfully little and frail? Very different than he does in this original shot that we`re showing you on the left right now. He looks like he`s lost maybe 60 pounds.
And detective Rogers, don`t you think the investigator, one of two main investigators on the case, should have had the answers to those questions?
DETECTIVE LIEUTENANT STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY PG, FORMER MEMBER, FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Nancy, you hit the nail on the head. I`m looking at this testimony here and I`m saying, boy, this guy is cool, he`s calm, he`s collected. He doesn`t look like the big monster that everyone thought that he would look like.
GRACE: Yes, and if I notice it, a jury is going to notice it. And you`ve got to remember -- unleash the lawyers, Parker, Manuelian, and Clements.
Parker, at trial there will not be a Trayvon for the jury to identify with. They are going to see the defendant sitting there which, of course, is very unfair to the victim. That`s the way our system is set up. And the more pitiful and emaciated that he becomes, the less he looks like the guy that started this fight.
PARKER: You`re absolutely right. Unfortunately, the only thing the jury is going to see is a picture of Trayvon. They`re not going to be able to hear his voice, to touch him, to see him, to really connect with him. I mean, that`s the difficulty that you have in homicide prosecutions.
What about it, Kirby?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, that`s a reality of all criminal cases. You know, the defendant is there. This man has undergone quite a bit of stress. The photo you all had was from seven years ago, he was 60 pounds heavier.
So, quite honestly, it`s not like he lost his weight for the purpose of impressing the jury. He lost his weight over the course of time. It`s a little unfair but that`s life. I have to say this, the prosecution got taken to school today.
GRACE: Manuelian, weigh in.
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, the height will be a big difference. The body structure will be a big difference because O`Mara is going to put the jury in the position of Mr. Zimmerman at the time of this incident. So all of that is going to be important.
We`ll be right back with Ramani Durvasula and Dr. Bill Lloyd and our reporters on the scene. But now CNN heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I was involved with heroes in 2008, Carolyn`s project just touched my heart. When you think about the people in this world that need help, the last people on that list are the children of incarcerated parents. That, to me, is why I`m coming out here today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approaching destination on the left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what are the total number of messages delivered by the project now?
CAROLYN: We`re right at 9,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow. That`s a lot of children that have this opportunity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gate, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So tell me about this facility.
CAROLYN: This is a maximum security prison. And it is the pilot for California. Thanks. Good morning. How are you? I`m Carolyn. Talk from your heart. We`re going to give you a signal.
Are we ready to roll? Here we go. Here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, kids. I know that you`re angry with me, and you should be angry with me. The difficulties that you faced over the years, that`s my fault. Hold on a sec.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could see that sadness, that guilt that they had for whatever decision they made that has impacted their children their entire lives.
CAROLYN: When you set these fathers down in front of that camera, they`re dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine with all the things going on in these children`s lives, what this means to them. On behalf of all of them, thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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GRACE: To doctor Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist, joining us out of L.A. tonight. Doctor Romani, the first time Trayvon Martin`s parents see Zimmerman face to face, what impact is that going to have on them?
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s incredibly powerful. It`s traumatic. It`s emotional. All the healing they have in the days that lead up to that, often you lose some of that. Because the power of what`s happened. You replay the loss. It`s a tough one. It`s a tough one. And in a case that`s this public and this motion l, it feels like a thousand slaps in the face for them especially given something that comeback with the bond hearing and all that. This isn`t going the way they want it to. This is very painful.
GRACE: Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon and pathologist joining us out of Sacramento.
Dr. Lloyd, you`ve handled so many homicide cases. I have seen, in fact, I have it right here, the photo of the back of Zimmerman`s head. It is pouring blood. When you have a head wound, does it bleed more than other parts of the body around the face and the neck?
DOCTOR BILL LLOYD, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEON, PATHOLOGIST: That`s a great point, Nancy. You`re absolutely right. The skin of the scalp and the face is the most richly vascularized tissue in the body. We`ve all bumped ourselves on the head and got a goose egg because the blood vessels are so numerous and close to the surface of the skin, the dramatic photo shows a pool of blood near the two lacerations.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember marine captain, Garrett Lawton, 31, Beaufort, South Carolina, killed Afghanistan. Bronze star, two Purple Heart, seven air medals, marine aviator with degrees in mechanical and aerospace engineering.
Loved diving, rugby, quoting lines from favorite movies.
Leaves behind parents David and Kathy, stepfather, Cal, sister, Kenna, widow, Trisha. Sons, Ryan and Caden.
Garrett Lawton. American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
And good night from the New York control room. There they are. Brett, the world famous director. Liz, Rosey, Dana and the whole back deck.
Everyone, Georgia is the first state to sign a law creating a lung cancer awareness license plate, benefiting Joan Gaeta lung cancer`s effort to support research.
In the past weeks, my mom diagnosed with a malignant lung tumor. They came to our aid. We are just learning of the blessing that it is benign. Many people are not that lucky. To help, go to lungcancerlicenseplate.org.
And happy birthday to one of the best lawyers in Mississippi. Frank Hadden.
Good luck to our star intern, everyone, Lizann. Navy vet, graduating Clark Atlanta. Good luck, friend.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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