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Obama's College Bound; Sanford Police Chief Can't Quit; Pivotal Immigration Decision Looms; Saints' GM Had Bug; Florida to Review "Stand Your Ground" Law; Calls to Forgive Student Loan Debt; Cheney Grateful for Donated Heart; High Winds Cause Large Waves

Aired April 24, 2012 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. And good morning to all of you. I am Carol Costello.

Happening right now in the NEWSROOM, college bound. President Obama hitting campuses today wooing young voters by taking on their high student debt. Obama claims he could save them thousands. This morning we're talking to someone who says we should be forgiving all student debt.

One in three for the GOP. John Boehner sounding the alarm saying there's a one in three chance they could lose control of the House.

Secret wiring, listening devices. We're not talking CIA but football. The New Orleans Saints' general manager under fire this morning over allegations he eavesdropped on rival coaches.

Still on duty. In a shocking turnaround, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee tries to resign and is denied. Outcry and disappointment from Trayvon Martin's family as a Florida town this morning tries to move forward.

Drying up. Medicare and Social Security in major trouble and on their way fast to being in the red. So who do you trust to fix it? Romney or Obama?

And desperately seeking Susan. Actress Susan Sarandon saying the government tapped her phone lines and denied her security clearance to visit the White House. But is the actress really being monitored?

NEWSROOM begins right now.

President Obama's college bound today as he begins his trip to three campuses in key voting states. He's hoping to woo young voters by pushing Congress to keep the interest rate from doubling on federally subsidized student loans. The rate is now 3.4 percent. But could jump back to 6.8 percent on July 1st if Congress fails to act. More than seven million undergrads have these type of loans.

The Cowin family is one of them -- of Chicago. Here's an example of Americans struggling to pay back their student loans. Daughters Jessica and Amy are recent graduates still living at home. Their mother Eileen, also a college grad, is still paying off her own college loans. Together their debt totals $95,000.

Our White House correspondent Dan Lothian is at the White House.

So, Dan, how will the president's proposal help families like the Cowins?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you pointed out, there are seven million young people across the country who are struggling to pay off these college loans. And so under this idea what the president is pushing it would save them about $5,000 over the next 10 years. That's a huge amount considering this current climate, this economic climate where many of these young people are having a hard time finding good jobs, can barely pay for -- you know, to start out with their starter homes or other expenses that they have.

So it would help these young people during a very difficult time. But in addition here what you're seeing is the president and Mitt Romney and others who are trying to focus on young people as key voters. Look back to 2008. Young people were really the epicenter of the president's grassroots effort to win in 2008 over John McCain then overwhelmingly he pulled in the young voters.

Now the president trying to recapture that audience to revive some of that enthusiasm not only with some of those young people who are now much older but the young people who couldn't vote then who can vote now for the very first time. So that's what you're seeing happening here as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And Dan, Mitt Romney wants these young voters, too, and he stole some of the president's thunder. Tell us about it.

LOTHIAN: That's right. And you know what's interesting here is that rarely do we see President Obama and former governor Mitt Romney agreeing on anything and certainly on major policy issues. Usually what they're doing is highlighting their differences, spelling out their contrast to voters but on this issue yesterday, Mitt Romney did try to steal a little bit of the president's thunder by admitting that both of them were on the same page.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Particularly with the number of college graduates that can't find work or that can only find work well beneath their skill level, I fully support the effort to extend the low interest rate on student loans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LOTHIAN: But that was pretty much where that agreement ended. Mitt Romney focusing on his theme that the overall job market is very poor in this country and the reason for that, he says, is because of what President Obama has not done.

COSTELLO: Dan Lothian, reporting live from the White House for us. Coming up at 9:30 Eastern, I'm going to talk with an advocate against student loan debt. She thinks the government shouldn't just slash the interest rates but wipe out and forgive all student loan debts. That's coming up.

This morning in Sanford, Florida, the embattled police chief remains on the job whether he likes it or not. The City Commission refused to accept Bill Lee's resignation despite blistering criticism that his department botched the investigation into the killing of Trayvon Martin. His supporters say the chief was being made a scapegoat.

Let's go to Sanford, Florida, and check with -- check in with Martin Savidge.

Good morning, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, very passioned -- impassioned, I should say, very powerful meeting took place last night. You know, it was anticipated that Chief Lee was simply going to turn in his resignation. And what was supposed to be a five-minute procedure turned into an hour and a half meeting in which tempers really began to flare.

And here's the issue. Chief Lee had only been on the job about 10 months when the whole Trayvon Martin case erupted in this community. And he of course about a month ago got a no-confidence vote by the same city commissioners that were there last night. And so he decided yesterday maybe since he stepped down temporarily he should make that permanent.

Well, that was rejected by the commissioners last night, and the reaction in the community today depends who you talk to. There were certain elements that support Chief Lee and believe he should remain. There are others that say, look, in order for the city to move past this whole Trayvon Martin investigation, it needs a new chief of police.

And one of those who has been supporting that kind of thought is the city manager, Norton Bonaparte. Here's what he had to say about last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORTON BONAPARTE, SANFORD, FLORIDA CITY MANAGER: Well, it's a little cold today. It's unusual for Florida. In terms of the City Commission meeting it was cold. You had a lot of people at the commission meeting. You had a lot of Lee's supporters and you had those that say that Chief Lee should not come back. That's why tensions got pretty hot last night.

And I think that for the city to move forward rather than staying in this limbo, it would be better for us to have a separation.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SAVIDGE: So it's the separation issue. There is still many in this community who believe that the chief is being unfairly blamed and there are others who say, look, make a clean start and you need to get rid of the chief. We'll have to wait and see. There are a number of investigations at the Sanford Police Department that are under way, and until those are resolved, the chief will remain. Not on the job because they have an interim chief but he'll remain. Still getting paid -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Martin Savidge reporting live from Sanford, Florida, this morning.

The man who revels in headlines like the toughest sheriff in the country is probably not relishing the spotlight this morning. A newly surfaced audio tape captures Arizona law man Joe Arpaio scoffing at a federal investigation that accuses the sheriff of racial profiling in Maricopa County. Arpaio played the topic for laughs at a 2009 fundraiser with an anti-immigration group.

On the tape Arpaio says because of the federal investigation his cops rounded up even more undocumented workers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY: I know what I am doing. If I knew we were really wrong, I would cool down a little. But I'm not. After they went after me, we arrested 500 more just for spite.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Arpaio says his comments were tongue and cheek and are now being used for political purposes. He tells CNN, quote, "It's interesting this 2 1/2-year-old speech is released by my critics the very week the Supreme Court hearings on SB 1070. This was an informal speech. It was strictly a speech where I spoke off the cuff. People like to hear what I have to say and I often use humor. I was responding to the demonstrators against me who were present at that speech," end quote.

OK. Now a closer look at SB 1070. That's the Arizona law Sheriff Arpaio mentioned in his statement. It's a controversial state law that cracks down on illegal immigration in Arizona. It goes before the U.S. Supreme Court tomorrow because it raises the question of whether state laws can trump federal authority on immigration issues. Critics say the concerns are even more basic. They say SB 1070 is a racist law that relies on racial profiling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIELENA HINCAPIE, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION LAW CENTER: The Supreme Court must ensure that all Americans, no matter what we look or sound like, are treated equally. Failing to preserve these constitutional protections would undermine our values of liberty and justice for all. LUZ SANTIAGO, CHURCH PASTOR IN MESA, ARIZONA: We have women that are afraid to report domestic violence because the husbands that are citizens are telling them if you go, I'm going to report you to Joe Arpaio, and have you deported.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The case could yield one of the most important immigration rulings in years and the political impact could be huge in a presidential election year.

CNN's Kate Bolduan is in Washington for us.

So, Kate, what will the Supreme Court be looking at tomorrow?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Carol.

Well, the justices are going to hear an hour of oral arguments. And this really comes down to a classic state versus federal power struggle. Interestingly, this will also be the first rematch for the two key players in the huge health care case that we heard just last month. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli and Attorney Paul Clement. They will be back at the stand on again opposing sides of this issue.

At issue in this fight, the Arizona law known, as you said, SB 1070. It's meant to crack down on illegal immigration. The law, among its provisions, requires local police to check a person's immigration status while they're in the course of enforcing other laws and the course of their duties if there is a, quote-unquote, "reasonable suspicion the person is in the country illegally."

And that reasonable suspicion question is getting -- part of this controversy. The big question is -- that the Supreme Court is taking up is who should be in charge of enforcing illegal immigration laws? The state of Arizona argues it's facing an economic and public safety crisis that state officials attribute to illegal immigration and the state simply says that they are stepping in where the federal government has so far failed on this issue that directly impacts their state.

The Obama administration, though, is fighting back saying that the Arizona measure would interfere what is exclusively in their view under federal authority and they go further saying that it would damage relations with other countries and make immigration matters worse.

I interviewed a local Phoenix police officer we'll be profiling as part of a piece and he says that he believes the law will lead to racial profiling. Supporters of the law, though, Carol, will not surprise you, they say, though, local police have expertise of anyone to be able to in the course of their duties enforce a law if it is a law and check someone's immigration status.

COSTELLO: Kate Bolduan reporting live for us from Washington.

So how do we protect our borders? You'd actually be amazed. Border Patrol uses everything from horses to helicopters to drones. At 10:40 Eastern we'll take you to the border for an exclusive look.

The New Orleans Saints says it is not true. There was no spying on opposing teams, no eavesdropping devices, no nothing. Still ESPN is reporting the Saints' general manager Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his superdome suite where he could eavesdrop on opposing coaches, you know, during games.

In a tweet to FOX Sports' Jay Glazer, Loomis called the report absolutely false. He said, "To think I'm sitting in there listening or doing something with the offensive and defensive play calls of the opposing teams make this story and the unnamed sources that provided the false information that much more less credible. It just did not happen."

Here to talk about the allegations against Loomis is Joe Carter from HLN Sports.

And, I don't know. Do you believe Loomis?

JOE CARTER, HLN SPORTS: This is why I'm a Denver Broncos fan. It's a classy organization. I'm kidding.

All kidding aside, no, it's -- if this is proven to be true, this is the ultimate -- they are now morally bankrupt as a franchise. When you look at the New Orleans Saints, I think, after 2005, after Hurricane Katrina, a lot of sports fans looked to this as the darlings of the NFL. Your second favorite team.

COSTELLO: Drew Brees is like a saint.

CARTER: Exactly. And the franchise, you rooted for them. Now with the bounty program, the way it's unfolding and with this potentially coming out, you have to think, is this -- is this franchise morally bankrupt? To think that the general manager could have been listening to opposing team's coaches, not only give play calls but give strategy.

You know that the language that these coaches use is so foreign, the X-Y-Z this, and trips left and that, but it's the strategy of saying OK, well, our guy is hurt so now we're going to go to this side or let's decide in the last two minutes to only throw the ball instead of run the ball.

It gives the other team an incredible advantage and to think that they might have done this is -- I mean, in college football they would eliminate the program forever. It would be the death penalty. What are they going to do in the NFL?

COSTELLO: OK. So -- well, that's an interesting question. Because I was reading the New Orleans papers this morning and they say, you know, the people who own the New Orleans Saints probably won't fire Loomis over this.

CARTER: Well --

COSTELLO: Not that they're OK with it but it's like, what's the big deal? Because they disagree with you. They say by eavesdropping on the opposing coaches, it doesn't really give you an advantage at all.

CARTER: Well, according to this report, this communication, this -- high tech (INAUDIBLE) was developed before he got there and was developed so that the general manager at the time, Randy Mueller, could listen to his own coaches talk so he could hear how they were communicating and that there was a re-changed in 2002 once he got into -- once he became the general manager, and that because of Hurricane Katrina and because all the damage that was done to the arena is why that didn't go on. It's why it didn't continue.

So you have to think about -- for them not to do anything, for them to just say well, we support him, and that really doesn't give us an advantage, I think it's going to be up to Roger Goodell, ad the commissioner and the rest of the NFL to decide it does definitely give you an advantage. Because you look back at New England Patriots in 2007, they were videotaping hand signals for one tea. They fined them $500,000. They lost a draft pick. They fined the team $250,000. Belichik, the coach, half a million.

I mean that gave them an incredible advantage. This is something completely different. I think it goes way beyond just stealing hand signals.

COSTELLO: Wow.

CARTER: This is actually like being inside of the huddle.

COSTELLO: Joe Carter, thanks so much.

CARTER: You bet.

COSTELLO: It's good to laugh at yourself. Just ask Herman Cain. The former Republican presidential candidate has not quietly disappeared. Oh, no. He's hitting the comedy circuit and, yes, he's funny.

Here he is on "The Daily Show" telling a faux reporter John Oliver about his more moments on the campaign trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN OLIVER, "THE DAILY SHOW" POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Herman Cain showed us that improvisation on the campaign trail can lead to some memorable moments.

HERMAN CAIN (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When asked me who is the president of Ubecky, becky, becky, becky, becky, stan, stan, I'm going to say I don't know. Do you know?

There is no way you can know the head of state for all of the nearly 200 nations on the planet.

OLIVER: It can't be done.

CAIN: No.

OLIVER: No human could remember 200 names.

CAIN: You possibly could but you would spend all of your time trying to remember who is the head of Uzbekistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: There you have it.

Seriously, in real life, Herman Cain switches support from Gingrich to Romney and has said he would be open to the idea of becoming Mitt Romney's running mate.

Still to come on NEWSROOM, the Trayvon Martin case has Florida taking a hard look at its stand your ground law. One member of the task force reviewing it is the very lawmaker who sponsored it. We're going to talk to him after a break.

And former pro-football star Deion Sanders says his estranged wife attacked him. She's booked into jail. We'll tell you what Sanders plans to do now.

NEWSROOM is back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's 9:19 Eastern Time. Time to check your top stories.

The government's star witness resumes testimony this morning in the trial of former presidential candidate John Edwards. Edwards is accused of using hundreds of thousands of dollars for two donors to hide his affair with Rielle Hunter.

ESPN is reporting New Orleans Saints G.M. Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suit where he could eavesdrop on opposing coaches. The Saints are denying the allegation. We'll have more on this story later in sports.

And former NFL star Deion Sanders says he plans to press charges against his estranged wife following her arrest last night. Pilar Sanders was booked into a Texas jail on domestic violence-related charges.

One week from today, a task force will look into Florida's controversial stand your ground law. The Trayvon Martin case has put the 7-year-old law in the spotlight. George Zimmerman's defense will lean on it to argue that he feared for his life during the confrontation in Sanford. Prosecutors will have to prove he didn't.

But some question whether the law itself will get a fair trial given who is on that task force. State Representative Dennis Baxley of Florida sponsored the law. He's also on the task force.

Good morning.

DENNIS BAXLEY (R), FLORIDA STATE HOUSE: Thank you. Good to see you.

COSTELLO: Nice to see you too.

You sponsored the law. You're on the task force. Do you realize how that may look to some people? It would be easy for anyone to assume that you would be biased in favor of the law.

BAXLEY: Well, I think it's important first of all to understand what the task force is. This is not just a trial for stand your ground. This is a task force to review the safety, public safety and protection for 20 million people in Florida. And so, we're going to be looking at a broad range of issues, not just this statute.

But I think the fact that I sponsored the bill that became this statute in 2005 and that I've been the criminal justice chair, I have a number of credentials that say I should be a part of that discussion. So, we're approaching this with an open mind. We're looking with this task force at all of our public safety issues and say, is there any legislation, any legislative changes that are needed.

COSTELLO: Well, let me put it this way. "The Tampa Bay Times" and "The Palm Beach Post" both criticized the panel, saying it looks like the governor, the Florida governor, stacked it in favor of the law.

Of the members, there's you and a lawmaker that says he helped write the law. Another lawmaker who helped pass it. Another who helped spread the law across the country. The task force chairwoman voted for it.

I mean, it sure sounds like a stacked deck.

BAXLEY: Well, it was because it was good public policy and we are cautious because we have certain members that their declared objective is to repeal the law or diminish it. We are concerned about the effect on the safety of our people to diminish any law-abiding citizens authority to protect themselves from violence.

We've seen violent crimes go down since the statute was in place.

COSTELLO: So, if you are taking a critical look -- let me put it this way. If you are taking a critical look at this law to have so many people involved with its passage, it doesn't seem like they would suddenly say, oh, gosh, this needs to be changed or this is a bad law. It's likely they'll try to justify the law.

BAXLEY: No. I think we're all looking at it with an open mind. You know, every legislative session is a time to review. I'm always open to review what we've done. Anybody can file a bill or file amendments to bills.

But the key is, this is only about four members of a 17-member task force. So, we're going to have large gamut of different views. We'll have prosecutors there. We'll have legal consultants there. And also, we have a tremendous amount of staff to bring information to this task force so that there is a complete open review.

We wouldn't want to approach it the other way that there's a bias that we're automatically saying this is a bad law and we're there to conduct a kangaroo court.

COSTELLO: Well, is it possible to put together a task force where people can be objective to have people who are not connected to the law at all either for or against it? Wouldn't that have been better?

BAXLEY: Well, I think objectivity is an illusion. In fact, most people that have experience with this area of public safety will have some opinions. The thing is to be honest about those opinions, look at all of those different perspectives and see what recommendations we would make based on facts and based on overview rather than just going there with an isolated view to dissect one statute.

COSTELLO: And just a final question. The police chief, Bill Lee, he tried to resign and the city commission would not accept his resignation. Do you think that his resignation had anything to do with the stand your ground law?

BAXLEY: I don't really. I think he got caught in a very difficult situation. There are going to be some close calls. There always will be some gray area when you have two people involved in a confrontation. And many time, a limited number of witnesses, if any.

So, there are going to be tough calls. I think the police chief found himself in a real turmoil and as we know, this is really not just about two people on the street. What we've uncovered is a lot of underground issues about where we are with racial concerns and biases or profiling, where we are in terms of just learning to live together in a broader sense.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: And would you include confusion over gun laws? You're on a task force looking at this gun law to see if it had any impact in the Trayvon Martin case, right?

BAXLEY: Controversial areas are always about trying to fit things together that we care about deeply. We care very much about public safety. We care very much about treating each person fairly before the rule of law.

These are very sensitive issues and they become controversial when you are trying to figure out how do they exactly fit together so that we build a good society.

COSTELLO: Representative Dennis Baxley, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

BAXLEY: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come, do you still owe money from your days in college? Coming up, I'll talk to one person who says it's time for the government to forgive every penny you owe on a student loan debt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back to NEWSROOM.

Now is your chance to talk back on one of the big stories of the day. The question this morning: who do you trust to fix Medicare and Social Security?

The presidential campaign is just heating up. One thing sure to be hotly contested is how to fix growing budget gaps and entitlements. A new government report says unless Congress makes changes by 2024, Medicare will not be able to pay full benefits. That's only 12 years away. Republicans say they are brave enough to talk about changes to the programs and that President Obama is simply not dealing with it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can't afford to avoid these entitlement challenges any longer. I'm the only candidate for president who has offered a sweeping specific plan to save Medicare and to reform Social Security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: For Romney that means raising the Social Security retirement age for younger Americans and embracing Congressman Paul Ryan's Medicare plan, which gives seniors the option of traditional Medicare or vouchers to pay for private insurance, something that congressional budget office says could cost seniors more and affect the quality of care.

The report also says President Obama's new health care law will save Medicare more than $200 billion through 2016.

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner insists that Mr. Obama does have plan for Medicare reform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: The president's approach would lower costs by changing the way we pay for health care with new incentives for doctors and hospitals, eliminating excess subsidies to prescription drug companies and asking the very wealthiest seniors to pay a little more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Yet consider this: former U.S. comptroller general, David Walker, says neither candidate has a credible program to, quote, "restore fiscal sanity."

So, the talk back question for you: who do you trust to fix Medicare and Social Security?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN, Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your comments later this hour.

Opening bell just ringing on Wall Street. Stocks likely mixed today as investors look at the latest housing reports and Apple's earnings after the close.

Other stories we're watching right now:

The Jennifer Hudson family murder trial resumes later this morning after an emotional first day. Hudson broke down in tears as she testified against the man accused of killing her mother, brother and young nephew in October of 2008.

House Speaker John Boehner says there's a chance that GOP could lose control of the House in November. Here's what he had to say on FOX News. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I say there's a two in three chance that we win control of the House again. There's a one in three chance we could lose. I'm being myself frank.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Boehner says there are 18 congressional districts in California, New York and Illinois where Republicans are vulnerable.

Still to come this hour, it almost sounds too good to be true. The government will forgive all of your student loan debt. Oh, the calls are getting louder and movement is growing this morning.

I'll talk with one advocate on the other side of the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back to NEWSROOM.

President Obama heads to three college campuses beginning today to push Congress to keep interest rates from doubling on federal subsidized student loans. Take a look at the figures. Americans owe $870 billion in student loan debt, surpassing what they owe on their cars and credit cards. Those under 40 years of age carry the most debt, $580 billion.

Cryn Johannsen is founder and executive director of All Education Matters. She's an advocate for student loan forgiveness.

Welcome, Cryn.

CRYN JOHANNSEN, FOUNDER, EXEC. DIR. OF ALL EDUCATION MATTERS: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: We're glad you're here.

You say freezing interest rates doesn't even begin to address the problem. Explain.

JOHANNSEN: Well, no. It does not. I think that it's obvious that it needs to be done.

And I wanted to add that with Romney coming out in support, I applaud him but I actually wonder if there's something that has to do with Representative Virginia Foxx, who's on the -- she's the chairperson on the committee of higher education. She recently came out saying she essentially had very little tolerance for student loan debtors. There's been backlash. I'm actually wondering if that's maybe some sort of P.R. damage control.

COSTELLO: Yes, that's a whole --

JOHANNSEN: You're -- you are exactly right. But when it comes to the magnitude of the crisis, which for three years I've been arguing for a student lending crisis, and I'm presently working on a book, fixing or freezing, maintaining these fixed interest rates doesn't do anything. I know you mention that I have advocated for forgiveness of all loans, there are groups that are doing that and I think that's incredibly admirable.

But at the same time if you consider this to be a bubble and some experts estimate that now outstanding student loan debt is at a trillion dollars, what is going to happen in the future, let's just say, which would be great if all loans were completely forgiven, what's going to happen 10 years from now?

COSTELLO: What are you suggesting, Cryn? What's the answer?

JOHANNSEN: Well, that's a really good question, Carol. The thing that gets down to -- when you have a problem of this magnitude, there is not a silver bullet solution. And actually, I worked with congressional leaders and offices to discuss multi-solution approaches.

Because one of the things, too, is that when you hear the world forgiveness, a lot of people who might not have student loans or have paid them down, some of them are not sympathetic to that, as you can understand, because it also makes the assumption that the person who has borrowed the money is somehow to blame. Because when we think of the word forgiveness, what do you think about, Carol?

COSTELLO: Well, I mean, I don't know people care what I think. But I think many people think that when you talk about loan forgiveness, it's like, well, I paid off my student loan debts. What are you going to do forgive all credit card debt too to get us out of the hole? That's what many people think.

JOHANNSEN: Yes, that's my point. My point about the term forgiveness in my view it assumes the person has almost committed a sin. It's as if they are on their knees begging for something. And really when we're looking at the questions and we're looking at the problems and how this has been created, there are a lot of institutions that have created this problem. We should be turning the question around instead of just considering student loan debtors wanting their debts wiped off and saying, gee, how did we get to this point and how do we come up with long-term solutions that actually don't just hurt students but also current students and prospective students?

COSTELLO: That's a tough one. Let's bring in Christine Romans. She's our business correspondent and she's been breaking down the numbers.

So, just on this idea of loan forgiveness maybe for a year, maybe forever, I don't know, Christine. What would it mean to our economy?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it would mean either higher taxes or a bigger deficit, because 85 percent of that big pile of outstanding student loan debt is backed by the federal government. So, that means that taxpayers would be forgiving other taxpayer student loans. That's what it means on its face.

And Mark Kantrowitz from Fin Web, he's really the expert in all matters student loans, he said it's just not feasible. You know, it's been a big push of the Occupy Wall Street movement and other groups that have sprung out of that but simply not feasible to ask Americans to raise their taxes to pay for someone else's education.

There are things that you can do, however. First of all, you can get a job market going a little bit better so people have a job to go to. That's a really important part of this.

Also, people have to remember to keep the borrowing down. Mark Kantrowitz and others are pointing out that you have people borrowing too much money in part because parents don't have savings in their house anymore.

But a couple of rules of thumb. Remember, you can't get rid of your student debt in bankruptcy. So, you have to be prepared that if you're not paying loans right now, you go into bankruptcy, a judge is not going to forgive them.

Don't borrow more than you're expected in the first year out. That means if you're going to be a social work major or a general studies major or liberal arts, you can't borrow a ton of money. You just can't. You got to save for it. You got to go to a community college.

Don't borrow more than $10,000 for each year of school. Even that Mark Kantrowitz says is too much. And a lot of personal finance people say that's too much.

You got a problem here where a lot of borrowing at the same time there's a weak jobs market has led to this big bubble in debt.

One last thing I want to say, Carol, is think about it this way. You have $60 billion to $70 billion every year going to student loan payments. Putting that kind of stimulus in the economy, $60 billion to $70 billion a year, some economists say there are better things you can do to stimulate an economy and grow jobs than paying off student loan debt.

COSTELLO: Christine Romans, Cryn Johannsen, thanks so much for the conversation.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Still to come on NEWSROOM, a surprising accusation from Susan Sarandon. The actress says she's being watched, has lost her White House clearance and she believes her phone is being tapped.

A.J. Hammer is next with showbiz headlines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Susan Sarandon claims the government tapped her phone, banned her from the White House and had her under surveillance.

A.J. Hammer is here to explain.

What is going on?

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": You are giggling, Carol, like it sounds silly.

COSTELLO: It sounds a little paranoid actually.

HAMMER: Well, this is what Susan Sarandon reportedly told a crowd of people to Tribeca Film Festival.

Now, according to several reports, she and Michael Moore were holding a Q&A session at the festival, they were asked if they thought they were under surveillance. And that's when Sarandon said her phone been tapped. She said she discover the tap when she requested her own file twice under the Freedom of Information Act. And she also said she was recently denied security clearance to visit the White House.

Now, as we know, Sarandon has been extremely active in all sorts of protests against the government, including policies regarding the war in Iraq and other things. She has been arrested in the past for protests.

So, right now, Carol, we haven't been able to get any official response from the FBI or the White House. But we're working on it. And, look, stranger things have happened. The most famous of these cases, of course, John Lennon had an FBI file on him. And he wasn't up to no good, as far as we knew.

A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": So right now, Carol, we haven't been able to get any official response from the FBI or the White House but we're working on it. And look stranger things have happened. And the most famous of these cases, of course, John Lennon had an FBI file on him. And he wasn't up to no good as far as we knew.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: As far we know, he wasn't. Ok. Keep digging. Thanks. A.J.

A.J. will be back with us in the next hour to give us all the details on Lindsay Lohan's new movie too. We're back in a minute.

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COSTELLO: 47 minutes past the hour. Stories we're watching right now.

This morning many wonder what will happen to Sanford, Florida Police Chief Bill Lee. The city commission last night rejected his letter of resignation. Lee has been criticized for his agency's investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting case. He remains on paid leave.

Also this morning Joran Van Der Sloot moves a step closer to being extradited to the United States from Peru. That's according to his attorney. Van Der Sloot was indicted on extortion charges relating to the case of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. He's currently serving a 28-year sentence in Peru for the murder of Stephany Flores.

Dick Cheney says he's feeling -- he's feeling very well and he's very fortunate after receiving a heart transplant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I feel a lot of emotion that goes with that frankly. One is great gratitude to the individual who donated -- the family who donated the heart that I was privileged to receive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The former Vice President also offered some tips to Mitt Romney on choosing a running mate. Cheney says the single most important criteria is the capacity to be president.

A wild side on Lake Erie -- strong winds whipped up massive waves that actually struck several cars oh nasty. The winds also knock out power to more than 1,000 customers. That was the least of it, Jacqui Jeras.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, there were really 50,000 people without power in the northeast when we think about snow but those waves are incredible aren't they?

COSTELLO: On Lake Erie.

JERAS: Could you imagine you're driving by and there they go. But the winds have just been incredible with this system too. And you know, today the eastern Great Lakes and the northeast still kind of socked in with those winds. So unfortunately a little travel trouble because of that too.

COSTELLO: What do you mean a little travel trouble?

JERAS: Well, delays at the airports expected in some of those big cities and the temperatures behind the system is so much colder too. Have you noticed the difference? It's really -- we're talking flip-flop weather and I'm not talking about (inaudible) we're talking places that should be warm are cold and places that should be colder are warm.

And we've got a reverse in our jet stream pattern basically which has been bringing some record highs in the southwest. Tucson, Phoenix seeing triple digits the last couple of days. Temperatures have been 20 degrees to 30 degrees above normal. Salt Lake City, Denver, even Rapid City, South Dakota could have a record high today pushing 90 degrees.

COSTELLO: Wow.

JERAS: Wow and it's crazy. So here we are in Atlanta, we are not even going to hit 70 today. Rapid City is up to 90. We have some record lows this morning. (inaudible) Baton Rouge both had a record low of 44. We even have some 30-degree temperatures this morning in Florida.

So this is going to stick around a couple of days before things begin to kind of even out a little bit. By the end of the week, we'll see 80s again in the east and cooler in a way.

COSTELLO: And then we'll all hit our searing hot summer.

JERAS: I can't wait.

COSTELLO: I have that fear, though. You can't wait?

JERAS: I'm so looking forward to summer. Oh yes.

COSTELLO: The way the weather has been this winter, summer to me, it seems like it's going to be like 900 degrees every day.

JERAS: It could happen. But we cooled down this month in the east so that's --

COSTELLO: It could happen. Thanks Jacqui.

We asked you to "Talk Back" on one of the big stories of the day. The question for you this morning, "Who do you trust to fix Medicare and Social Security?" We'll have your answers next.

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COSTELLO: We asked you to "Talk Back" on one of the big stories of the day. The question for you, "Who do you trust to fix Medicare and Social Security?"

This from Bill, "The GOP has tried to sell off Social Security in the past, now they keep saying it's going broke, which is not. That's pretty much common sense. The Democrats are -- are the only party to care about us seniors."

This from Marsha, "Obama has had three plus years to come up with a fix and has abdicated his opportunity to do so, the answer is going to have to be dealt with by the GOP -- Ryan and the rest."

This from Royce, "The GOP wants to butcher the programs. So let's just quit with the scare tactics and let it work itself out. It's not broke."

This from Peter, "Congress is broken and uses Social Security and Medicare as a slush fund. We need to make that illegal."

And this from Ron, "You, Carol. Only you can get us out of this mess. So tell the congressional leaders your plan. We know you've got one."

I'm staying out of that. Forget it, Ron. Please continue the conversation, Facebook.com/CarolCNN. And we'll read more of your comments in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

We're following a lot of developments in the next hour. Let's check in first with Dan Lothian.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Obama and the likely Republican nominee Mitt Romney both agree on something and that is helping young people. Young people who could be critical in the upcoming presidential election. I'll have more on that at the top of the hour.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Martin Savidge in Sanford, Florida where nearly two months after the death of Trayvon Martin, passions are still running high. I'll tell you why the chief of police can't quit. Coming up.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands in Chicago. Day two of the trial against William Balfour, the man accused of killing Jennifer Hudson's family. She was on the stand yesterday. Some incredibly emotional testimony. We'll talk about that and what's ahead in this trial. That's coming up at the top of the hour.

COSTELLO: Also coming up. Patrolling America's southern border goes high-tech. We're talking about a predator drone with very sensitive equipment. Don't miss this exclusive behind the scenes look. That's ahead in our next hour.

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COSTELLO: Oh, the New Orleans Saints in trouble again and this time for eavesdropping. Jeff Fischel is here to talk about how they are denying, denying, denying. JEFF FISCHEL, HLN SPORTS: Yes, Carol. You know this one's really stunning. Remember, the Saints are already in big trouble once before for the bounty hunting. They were actually paying players to take out other players.

Now reports are GM Mickey Loomis had a way to listen to the coaches on the visiting team during games. ESPN says this went on during the 2002, 2003, and 2004 seasons. If true, this would be a huge violation of NFL rules. Not to mention wire tapping breaks state and federal laws. The Saints and Loomis strongly deny the report though. They say this never happened. Loomis is already suspended for half of upcoming season for his role in the bounty scandal.

Let's do baseball last night, Pudge Rodriguez retiring from baseball after 21 seasons where the best catcher of all time throwing out the first pitch but he threw it down to second base like he would throw at a guy out trying to steal. That's great.

COSTELLO: That's cute.

FISCHEL: That's classic Pudge.

As for the game, the Rangers and Yankees -- Alex Rodriguez goes deep against his former team, a three-run shot. The Yankees beat the Rangers. These are two of the best teams in the American League.

FISCHEL: All right.

You know, Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey has a parting shot before the New Jersey Nets move to New York. Listen up.

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GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: You don't want to stay, we don't want you. I mean seriously. I'm not going to be in the business of begging people to stay here. That's one of the most beautiful arenas in America they have had a chance to play in. It's in one of the country's most vibrant cities.

And they want to leave here and go to Brooklyn? Good riddance. See you later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISCHEL: And don't let the door hit you, right. The Nets lost their final home game in Jersey last night. Fans cheered -- a dozen former players, former team owners and execs at half-time ceremony. Kind of sounds like a break up, doesn't it?

COSTELLO: Yes. Parting is such bitter --

FISCHEL: Someone is a little hurt.

COSTELLO: I think so. Thank you Jeff.

FISCHEL: Ok.