Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Celis Neighbor Heard Dogs Barking, Men`s Voices
Aired April 26, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Tucson. A parent`s worst nightmare, Mom and Dad tuck their 6-year-old girl into bed. Daddy checks on Isabel 8:00 AM, she`s gone. Isabel`s room and the rest of the home searched by K9s, including a cadaver dog, as cops execute a third warrant at the home and go on to search a landfill, cops removing fabric and pillows from a red Acura parked in the driveway.
We learn Isabel usually sleeps with her two brothers, but not that night. An FBI shrink in the home, analyzing it. As cops question overnight work crews around the home, we narrow the timeline, placing Isabel at a Little League game the night before she disappears.
Bombshell tonight. For the first time, Mommy and Daddy break their silence as a key witness emerges. Primetime exclusive here. That witness, a neighbor whose bedroom just feet from Isabel`s, reveals what she hears just moments before the child reported gone.
As the girl`s brothers questioned by police and Isabel`s mom takes to FaceBook begging for prayers, tonight, where is Isabel? We investigate the clues left behind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY CELIS, ISABEL`S MOTHER: We are here today to plead for a safe return of our baby girl, Isabel.
SERGIO CELIS, ISABEL`S FATHER: Just please, please, to the person or persons who have Isabel, tell us your demands. Tell us what you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very emotional mother and father for the first time speaking out.
BECKY CELIS: We don`t want the focus to be taken off Isabel by us being in front of the cameras.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A possible key eyewitness.
ALICIA STARDEVANT, NEIGHBOR: My bedroom is right here. My bed is directly right next to the glass, and her bedroom window is right here right, right across from me.
I got woken up by my dogs. They were barking their heads off. And I noticed two male voices outside my bedroom window. Their dogs were going insane, completely nuts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She thinks the men were speaking English, but she isn`t sure.
STARDEVANT: I think that she was comfortable enough with these people to go with them because I didn`t hear her.
SERGIO CELIS: We are looking -- we`re looking for you, Isa. We love you. And we miss you so much! And we will never give up! We will never give up looking for you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You just saw video from ABC`s "GMA." Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Tucson, Mommy, Daddy tuck in their 6-year-old girl, fell into bed. Next morning, Daddy checks on Isabel 8:00 AM, she`s gone. For the first time, Mommy and Daddy break their silence as a key witness emerges. A neighbor whose bedroom just feet from Isabel`s reveals what she hears just moments before the child reported gone. That neighbor with us live and taking your calls.
Straight out first to Paul Birmingham, news director, KNST. Tell me the latest, Paul.
PAUL BIRMINGHAM, KNST (via telephone): Absolutely, Nancy. The past 24 hours, a lot of breaking developments in this story, that key eyewitness emerging. This is Alicia Stardevant, who I know you`re going to have on your show coming up here. She lives right next door, reports hearing men`s voices, hearing dogs going crazy, both her dogs, as well as the Celises` dogs. This is critical because it helps narrow the timeline. The time that she heard this will fit into all of this case.
Also, that other key development yesterday, the parents speaking, first Becky Celis -- and this is important because up until this point, Tucson police were not even identifying the family. But now we know the parents -- Becky first speaking to all of the people around the world, millions of people who are praying and volunteering. She wanted to thank them, thanking Detective Tony Sabori (ph) with the Tucson Police Department and his lead (ph) team for all their hard work, also saying that she does not want them to be the focus of what`s going on, or rather, have the focus taken off...
GRACE: But don`t they realize, Paul Birmingham, the fact that they have waited so long to come forward has actually put the focus on them?
BIRMINGHAM: That might have something to do with them coming out. Also, Sergio talking about the fact that they are cooperating to the fullest extent with the investigation.
And he had really two messages. One was for the person or persons who have Isabel -- Tell us your demands, tell us what you want -- and also to Isa herself, saying, We`re looking for you, we love you and miss you so much, and we`ll never give up looking for you.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. But first, Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Cops stated they had not been identifying the family up until they came out and spoke. Why not?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, we don`t know. And we don`t know why they didn`t come forward but for what the mother said, that they don`t want the focus on them. But here`s what police are not saying. They will not disclose if anyone but the immediate family was in the home that night or at any time between 11:00 o`clock and 8:00 o`clock the next morning.
GRACE: Everyone, taking your calls, a special guest joining us tonight in a primetime exclusive, Alicia Stardevant, eyewitness and earwitness to a possible abduction of a 6-year-old child. She is a neighbor of the Celis family, her bedroom just feet away from Isabel`s bedroom.
Ms. Stardevant, thank you for being with us.
STARDEVANT: Hi. Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: And Ms. Stardevant, you coming forward and speaking, answering questions, means so much to literally millions of people that are praying for Isabel`s safe return.
I know that you state you heard dogs barking and male voices that you believe to have been English-speaking around 6:30 AM that morning. Could you show me behind you where you were and tell me what you heard?
STARDEVANT: Yes. Sure. It`s actually going to be right up this way. Isabel`s window is right on the other side of this wall. It`s about 40, 50 feet from the street. And my bedroom is directly across from hers. It`s going to be right over this wall right here, Isabel`s room.
GRACE: Got it.
STARDEVANT: And that`s the window -- yes?
GRACE: You know, Alicia Stardevant, we have been told her window was the one -- the smaller one to the left of what you`re showing us. This window would -- it would be very easy to climb into that window. It only looks to be two or three feet off the ground.
STARDEVANT: Yes. Yes. And it`s a very big window. And it was wide open at 8:00 AM. When I came out, when I discovered that she was missing and I looked over the wall, it was wide open.
GRACE: Alicia, is it typically open? Or do they use air- conditioning?
STARDEVANT: No, it`s -- I`ve never seen it open ever. So it was a little unusual.
GRACE: Never? So I noticed that they don`t have burglar bars. Do you know if they have an alarm in the house? Have you ever heard it set off accidentally?
STARDEVANT: I`ve never heard an alarm. I don`t believe that they have an alarm, but I`m not sure if they do.
GRACE: Did I understand that they have three dogs, and that all of them live in the home? Is that true?
STARDEVANT: Yes, that`s true.
STARDEVANT: So all three dogs inside. I also have been told that a screen had been removed from the window. Let`s see the window again, Liz, please.
STARDEVANT: Yes.
GRACE: Did the window typically have a screen on it?
STARDEVANT: Yes, it did. And that morning, when I looked over the wall, I wasn`t paying attention to where the screen was, but I know that the window itself was completely open. There was no screen and -- but I`m not sure where the screen was when I looked over the wall.
GRACE: Do you recall seeing it at all?
STARDEVANT: I can`t say for sure. I don`t remember to be certain.
GRACE: Alicia Stardevant is joining us, everyone, and giving us a tour, her bedroom window just feet away from Isabel`s, where many believe she was kidnapped, the window being either the entry or the exit for the assailant.
Ms. Stardevant, back to that window. When you saw it, do you recall whether the curtains had been pulled away, or were they as they are right now?
STARDEVANT: They were to the side. I could see into her bedroom when I looked over the wall.
GRACE: You could see directly into her bedroom?
STARDEVANT: Yes, I could.
STARDEVANT: What could you see in her bedroom?
GRACE: Well, I wasn`t trying to be very nosy. I didn`t want to pry into anyone`s business, so I didn`t really take a very hard look. I just remember seeing her bed. I think I saw a dresser. Nothing looked like it was -- like there was a huge scene that went on there. It looked normal.
GRACE: When you woke up that morning, what woke you up, Alicia?
STARDEVANT: My dog. She woke me up. She`s very skeptical of people. And when she heard voices, she started barking, and that woke me up. And that`s when I noticed the male voices, multiple male voices. And I noticed that the Celises` dogs were going crazy. And they bark a lot, but this was a different type of barking. This was a very, very frantic barking.
GRACE: Alicia, were the Celis dogs in their home barking or outside barking?
STARDEVANT: They were outside.
GRACE: Oh, OK. So the dogs were not in the home. I thought they lived inside, inside dogs.
STARDEVANT: They`re usually outside. Whenever I`m home, I usually see them outside.
GRACE: So you heard the dogs, the Celis dogs, barking outside. How do you know that it was 6:30 AM?
STARDEVANT: Because I -- it was really early and I wanted to know what time it was, so I checked my cell phone real quick to see what time it was.
GRACE: Now, your...
STARDEVANT: And it was, like, 6:28.
GRACE: Wow, that`s a good memory. So your dog woke you up barking. Was your dog in your bedroom barking?
STARDEVANT: Yes, she was.
GRACE: OK. So you assumed she wanted to go outside. You took her outside. What did you see?
STARDEVANT: No, I didn`t...
GRACE: You did not take her outside?
STARDEVANT: No, I didn`t. They stay indoors with me until I get up. And I knew that she was barking at the male voices, and so I just told her to be quiet and go back to sleep, unfortunately. And I did the same. I didn`t get up. I didn`t get up. I didn`t think it was unusual because it was daylight outside, and it was -- I thought someone was walking around for a morning walk.
GRACE: OK. Now, that`s interesting...
STARDEVANT: So I just went right back to sleep.
GRACE: Had you ever heard male voices outside? Because, see, if I heard male voices right outside my window, I would be concerned because I wouldn`t be used to hearing that. In Manhattan, you know, you hear fire trucks and police cars and traffic horns, but a male voice, that would surprise me. So do you typically -- can you hear voices typically outside your bedroom window?
GRACE: That`s something that I probably should`ve paid more attention to because this breezeway between my house and theirs, no one ever uses it. They have no reason to use it except for me because my entrance is in the back of the alley. So I should have thought that was a little odd because I`ve never heard voices outside my window before. I`m the only one that walks through here. But I should have paid more attention.
GRACE: Actually, you know what, Alicia? What you did here is invaluable. So you hear male voices. What leads you to think they were English-speaking voices? Did you make out any of the words said?
STARDEVANT: I didn`t. I wasn`t paying a lot of attention. I was really tired.
GRACE: Yes.
STARDEVANT: I remember hearing English, I think. You know, again, I wasn`t paying a lot of attention. But it didn`t seem like it was a language that I wouldn`t understand, that I didn`t understand.
GRACE: Do you recall any of...
STARDEVANT: I really do think it was English voices.
GRACE: ... the words? What were they saying?
STARDEVANT: No, I don`t recall anything. It sounded to me like they were having a conversation. No yelling, no screaming, no struggling, just that they were having a conversation.
GRACE: And were they speaking in low tones, so no one would hear them, or was it like someone walking through?
STARDEVANT: Well, my windows are really thin. I can hear everything. So I haven`t tested the theory, you know, but I assume that they were talking a little quieter. I mean, I could understand that there were people talking, but I didn`t -- I couldn`t hear exactly what they were saying. So I don`t know.
GRACE: Did you recognize the voice? Would you recognize anyone in the Celis family? Would you recognize, for instance, the brothers or Mr. Celis?
STARDEVANT: Unfortunately not. I don`t have a lot of contact with them, so I don`t know what they sound like. And it was a brief moment that I heard these male voices outside, so I don`t know if I`d be able to recall it again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A desperate search to find Isabel Celis.
BECKY CELIS: Return (ph) our baby girl, Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Key witness comes forward with new clues about what may have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is plausible that someone entered that house, a stranger.
SERGIO CELIS: To the person or persons who have Isabel, tell us your demands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not received a ransom note of any kind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. And joining me right now, a special guest, a guest who is emerging as a crucial witness in this search for Isabel Celis, Alicia Stardevant, the next-door neighbor whose bedroom window only feet from Isabel`s.
Alicia, again, thank you for being with us. After you heard the male voices that morning, 6:30 AM, I assume you tried to go back to sleep. What was the next thing you heard?
STARDEVANT: The next thing I heard was a knock on my front door from her uncle and an officer saying that Isabel was missing.
GRACE: What time was that?
STARDEVANT: It`d be 8:00.
GRACE: So at 8:00 AM. Are you sure of that time?
STARDEVANT: It might have been 8:05. It was definitely 8:00-ish.
GRACE: OK...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... because I know that they called police around 8:00 AM. Did you happen to hear, or can you hear Ms. Celis when she leaves in the morning for her job as a nurse?
STARDEVANT: I can`t, no. I don`t know exactly when she leaves for work in the morning.
GRACE: So between your dog barking and their dogs barking, when was it you went back along that alleyway and looked at Isabel`s window?
STARDEVANT: Yes. Oh, sorry...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: When? What time?
STARDEVANT: It was right -- it was right after they told me. I put on some clothes, and I looked over the wall. So it was probably, like, 8:15 maybe.
GRACE: When the uncle came to talk to you, what did he ask?
STARDEVANT: He asked if I had seen a little girl that was missing. He didn`t right away say that it was his niece. And then later, when I came out, the officer told me it was his niece.
GRACE: When you spoke to police, what was their -- what was their line of questioning? What did they want to know?
STARDEVANT: Pretty much everything that you`re asking me, what I did the night before, on Friday night, when I came home, and who I was with, that sort of thing.
GRACE: Alicia, have you had any interaction with Isa or the family before?
STARDEVANT: No, just in friendly passing saying hello. I always saw the kids playing out front or in the back yard with the dogs, but no conversations or anything of that nature.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY CELIS: We are here today to plea...
SERGIO CELIS: Just please, please, to the person or persons who have Isabel...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very emotional plea from little Isabel`s parents.
SERGIO CELIS: Tell us your demands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe hearing the potential people that took her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still no sign of Isabel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are taking your calls. And joining me is crucial witness Alicia Stardevant. She is a neighbor of the Celises, whose bedroom is just feet from Isa`s.
Alicia, again, thank you for taking your time to be with us and explain all of this to literally millions of people that are praying and looking for Isa.
Alicia, you say that you had just had normal conversations with neighbors. Tell me about the Celises. I understand they`re a very close- knit family.
STARDEVANT: They always seemed like it. Again, I never had real personal connections with them. But they always seemed like a very happy family. Nothing ever unusual would go on. The kids seemed very happy. And it just -- it`s sad that it happened to a family that seems so close and so tight-knit.
GRACE: Have you observed them together in the neighborhood?
STARDEVANT: Not around the neighborhood or anything. They mostly stayed in their house. Again, I just saw the kids outside playing. There was a little girl that she played with down the street from me, but that`s about it.
GRACE: Did the two little brothers play with Isa outside?
STARDEVANT: Yes.
GRACE: Where they would play, is that easily observed from the street?
STARDEVANT: Yes, it`s right in front of the street. It`s right in their -- in their garage, the driveway.
GRACE: Do they always have that red car parked in their driveway?
STARDEVANT: Yes. Yes. They do.
GRACE: Does it work, or is it just sitting there?
STARDEVANT: It`s just sitting there. Yes, it`s been sitting there, I`m pretty sure, since I moved in about eight months ago.
GRACE: I was wondering because I know that police removed fabric and pillows from the vehicle and I was wondering why. How long have you lived next to the Celis family?
STARDEVANT: About eight months now.
GRACE: And have you observed Mr. and Ms. Celis, as well? Do you ever see them?
STARDEVANT: Not a lot, no. I have seen just a couple of times them in their back yard, but not more than the children.
GRACE: What would they be doing in the back yard?
STARDEVANT: I think feeding the dogs. Like, I didn`t want to be nosy and look over the wall, but just feeding the dogs, you know, making dinner.
GRACE: Alicia, have you ever observed a lot of foot traffic in and out? Do they have a lot of visitors in the home?
STARDEVANT: No, they don`t. I`ve never seen any other people besides them really come visit and -- you know, and their family. No strange activity, no strange cars. It just seemed like a quiet house.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What happened to the 6-year-old little girl?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Six years old and abducted --
SERGIO CELIS, FATHER OF MISSING 6-YEAR-OLD ISABEL CELIS: We`re looking for you, Isa, we love you. And we miss you so much.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The desperate search to find missing Isabel Celis before it`s too late.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We`re hearing these cases over and over again where these children just are disappearing miraculously from their bedrooms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still saying suspicious disappearance possible abduction.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you hear their dogs barking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, their dogs were going insane, completely nuts.
BECKY CELIS, MOTHER OF MISSING 6-YEAR-OLD ISABEL CELIS: And these efforts of finding my Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We hope little Isabel is found safe and sound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not ruling out potentially anybody a suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did notice that it was multiple male voices.
B. CELIS: Please for safe return for our baby girl Isabel.
S. CELIS: We will do anything for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live in Tucson. I want to go straight back out to Paul Birmingham, news director, KNST. Also joining us special guest, Lt. Fabian Pacheco, the executive officer with Tucson PD.
Paul Birmingham, was everyone surprised that the parents finally spoke out?
PAUL BIRMINGHAM, NEWS DIRECTOR, KNST, 790AM/97.1 FM (via phone): I don`t know if surprised is the right word, that is a good word for it, but certainly relieved to a certain extent. Because here we could put a face with these victims. And that`s the reason that TPD was given that they weren`t identifying the family publicly was that they are considered victims.
But absolutely when that press conference came down, you could hear a pin drop there where the Celis family was. And also TVs and radios across the city tuned to that statement they were finally making, breaking their silence.
GRACE: And joining us, special guest, Rick Moore, the owner of Moore Security Services. His business has surveillance cameras actually pointed toward the Celis family home.
Rick Moore, thank you for being with us.
RICK MOORE, BUSINESS HAS SURVEILLANCE POINTED TOWARD GIRL`S HOME: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Rick, how is it, may I ask, that you have surveillance cameras that are pointing toward the family home?
MOORE: Well, that is quite a coincidence. But what happens is I have a showroom right here in the back alley about 30 yards from the front door of the Celis residence. So because our employees park their vehicles here and of course we want to make sure that nobody breaks into our showroom and our security store, we have cameras in the back and they happened to be pointing right at the alley and right at the Celis family resident street.
GRACE: Wow. Joining me right now, Lt. Fabian Pacheco, executive officer, Tucson PD.
Lieutenant, thank you for being with us.
LT. FABIAN PACHECO, EXECUTIVE OFFICER, TUCSON PD: Thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Lieutenant, I know this must be a really hard job for you and your men and women. I recall as a prosecutor dealing with cases where children are victims. I still remember the cases, and that was years ago. I know your team is trying everything they can. How important was it to you for the family to speak out? The mom and dad. Hasn`t it increased your tips?
PACHECO: Yes, they have. And it is very important. However, it`s also equally important to recognize that we never discourage the family from speaking to the media. We passed along the requests and we even offered our services in facilitating such a request or plea for help. And that -- we did exactly that. Yesterday when they agreed to speak and offer a plea.
GRACE: You know, Lieutenant, I was in law enforcement practically my whole legal career. So when I heard reports that you and the police department had asked the parents not to beg for the return of their child, that didn`t make sense to me. Because I have been in those situations before. That doesn`t mean the family`s got to answer a bunch of crazy questions that, you know, reporters want to ask. But for the public to see this family and to connect with them is very, very important.
PACHECO: Yes, you`re exactly right, Nancy. That`s a very important and those requests were passed along to the family almost from the early stages of this investigation. And, again, it`s entirely up to them. We want to help out and assist and facilitate that should they choose to do that. And yesterday they did, and again, thank you for that.
GRACE: You know, Lieutenant Fabian Pacheco, everyone, joining us, answering your questions. His men and women working literally around the clock trying to find this little girl.
Lieutenant, a lot of people are reporting that you have scaled back the search, but in my analysis, it`s going from fact finding to fact analysis. Please respond to reporters stating you`re scaling back, that you`re losing interest in the search for Isa. That is absolutely not true to my understanding.
PACHECO: That is absolutely not true. Not at all. We are not losing one bit of interest in this case. What happens is in the surrounding area, you tend to see fewer uniformed officers or detectives going door-to-door or doing the canvas so to speak that we completed from the early stages of this investigation. We conducted four complete canvases of this area in a three-mile wide radius.
We went back several times and we continue to do that to this day. Now you indicated pouring over this information. This is where we`re at in an investigative phase. All these lead sheets that we developed over the past six days, we have analysts, we have detectives that are working out of our substation poring over that eight-page document to make sure that there`s no detail within that eight-page questionnaire that we`re overlooking.
We`re trying to be as thorough and comprehensive as we possibly can. We still have people going to certain areas where perhaps we haven`t reached that comfort level in saying that, OK, are we absolutely sure that we checked everything? The washes (ph), certain alleys, other areas? It`s more of a specific search with respect to that.
Now our detectives were back at the office, they`re going through these lead sheets as I indicated. And again, that core group of detectives are working closely with our FBI counterparts. And that leads me before I forget to thank those federal law enforcement agencies that are helping us out here as well as the state, county, and other local agencies.
It`s been a tremendous and phenomenal support. Not just from a law enforcement point of view, but from the community. People wanting to ask, how can we pitch in? How can we help?
GRACE: I agree.
PACHECO: In the search. And -- yes.
GRACE: Lt. Fabian Pacheco is with us.
PACHECO: Absolutely. So --
GRACE: Lieutenant, couple of questions. And I think I know what your answer is going to be. Have any polygraphs been administered?
PACHECO: Well, again, we`re a pretty large agency with a lot of resources. So in these types of investigations, those are kind of standard practice without telling you one way or another to not hurt the investigation, I can assure you that we`ve done everything possible up to this point. And again that`s part of the thing --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, Lt. Fabian Pacheco --
PACHECO: -- unit is here.
GRACE: I`m --
PACHECO: Yes?
GRACE: I hear what you`re saying. As former law enforcement, if you`ve done everything you can, my analysis, I don`t expect you to comment is that you have given a polygraph to every single person that would agree to be strapped up.
All right. Why has the FBI gotten involved in this case?
PACHECO: Well, as an agency, the Tucson Police Department quickly recognized the gravity and the seriousness of this investigation. And we`re going to reach out to anyone who may have more resources or perhaps more sophisticated resources than we may possibly have in here.
GRACE: You know what? I`m glad to hear that, Pacheco.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m glad to hear that because you and I both have seen municipalities and other law enforcement. They don`t want the FBI to so- call big foot them. To heck with that. I`d get every boot on the ground, every body in the office, everybody I could to help me crack this case.
Lt. Fabian Pacheco with us. Lieutenant, fabric was taken out of that red Acura parked in the driveway. Why?
PACHECO: Well, here`s -- without commenting on what exactly was removed from that vehicle, I want to clear up a couple of things.
GRACE: OK.
PACHECO: And since you already know that that vehicle is not operable, but that`s part of what was included in the overall search warrant. And also to clear up a couple of things. Everything that we`ve done in terms of search of the -- of the home has been done with a search warrant and according to the law.
GRACE: Why did you need search warrants, Lieutenant? Can`t you have gotten consent?
PACHECO: Yes, of course, we can always get consent from people. But in the long run, we don`t want to run the risk of perhaps losing something later on because naturally those consents are always going to be challenged as to the voluntary --
GRACE: Well, of course. But Lt. Pacheco --
PACHECO: -- and the willingness of those consent.
GRACE: The only person that could challenge a search warrant in the Celis home would be a Celis family member.
The dogs that were barking in the alleyway, according to the neighbor, Alicia Stardevant. What do you make of her hearing voices? Is that area a common walkway? Or is it exclusive pretty much to those two homes?
PACHECO: It appears to be exclusive to these two homes. We are looking over that initial interview. And the detectives spoke with these neighbors within the early minutes of the investigation back on Saturday. And they did take a taped statement. We`re looking over that interview to see, is there anything that we may have missed in there. In that statement. And so far, no.
GRACE: Any idea who those men were?
PACHECO: Yes, at this point, we`re looking into that, Nancy. We`re certainly looking at that possibility going back over those statements and that questionnaire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. CELIS: We are looking -- we`re looking for you, Isa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember my dog was barking.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And what time were you woken up initially?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 6:30. I remember hearing the male voices at that time.
B. CELIS: Please, for a safe return for our baby girl Isabel. And in these efforts of finding my Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mother did not see Isabel before she went to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very scary. It makes me think twice about, you know, checking your kids every night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Odd that someone else would be right here. Because I`m the only one that has any reason to walk through here.
S. CELIS: We are cooperating to the fullest extent with the investigation.
B. CELIS: We don`t want the focus to be taken off Isabel by us being in front of the cameras.
S. CELIS: We will never give up looking for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Susan Moss, family attorney, New York. Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, fed with the FBI, Miami, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta.
OK, Sue Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: This family needs to be encouraged to remain in front of that camera for at least two reasons. One, if they are not in front of that camera, people are going to think that they are intimately involved in this crime. And that may take the attention off of the search.
Secondly, if they are in front of the camera, they will get more air time. We are losing precious moments. This has got to be a priority of the local press and also the press of the entire state because we`ve got to find this girl.
GRACE: OK. Let`s hear it, Rodriguez. What do you make of the feds being brought in and what we just learned from Lieutenant Pacheco and the neighbor Alicia Stardevant?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: As to Lt. Pacheco and police (INAUDIBLE), I`m going to assume that the parents have been polygraphed. There wouldn`t be this continued interaction between the law enforcement and the parents if they were targets of the investigation. That`s the first thing.
I find it unusual that from the inception the FBI was brought in. Even though they`ve got great resources. One thing is providing a consultant or a profilist. The next thing is getting intensely involved in the search and getting into international actions. I think there may be a further nexus that we`re not aware of that brought them in.
GRACE: What do you mean a nexus?
RODRIGUEZ: You know, there`s got to be something else. I mean this family, as we`ve seen already, there`s got to be something else. We talked about kidnappings in that area. The reason for that is it`s close to the Mexican border. We have these express kidnappings. We have these things that one family is getting revenge against another family even though --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What?
RODRIGUEZ: Even though the family is being --
GRACE: OK. You know what? That`s --
RODRIGUEZ: We see that here all the time.
GRACE: Stop, stop. Put him up. Thank you. He`s a Little League coach. She`s a -- just stop. She`s a pediatric nurse.
RODRIGUEZ: Stay with me.
GRACE: No, no.
RODRIGUEZ: Stay with me.
GRACE: You stay with me.
(CROSSTALK)
RODRIGUEZ: I`m not --
GRACE: It`s not like they`re drug lords. Don`t even --
RODRIGUEZ: I`m not suggesting that. I`m not suggesting that. What I`m seeing is that we`ve seen many times, especially when you brought the word, the kidnapping. In revenge against another family member, unrelated to them, to get their attention. This is not unusual in significant drug - -
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what? You`ve really lost --
RODRIGUEZ: They may not have anything to do with it.
GRACE: You`ve really missed your calling. I think you`d be better off writing novels, mystery novels about drug cartels.
OK, Kessler, weigh in with a little reality check.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I respect this police department. There`s something there. They`ve been holding it close to the vest the whole time. Not revealing which dog hit. Not telling anything to the press. I mean you`re now finding stuff out that the police have presumably known for a few days. I think they`re going to make an airtight case when they find who it is when they make an arrest. Whoever is involved needs to lawyer up. And I think that --
GRACE: OK. Put up Kessler.
Kessler, do you have any reason for saying that they`re going to announce a break in a few days? Are you just throwing that out there just because it sounds good?
KESSLER: No, listen, Nancy, three days ago, we didn`t know any of this stuff. I think they have a lot more, and you found out today. Look at the interviews you`ve done today. There`s a lot of information. The window, the dogs barking, the family wasn`t woken up by dogs in their own house barking. There`s a lot of stuff that police have known for a few days we`re just finding out. There`s a lot there that we`re finding out.
GRACE: Yes. You`re right about that, Kessler. You`re absolutely right about that.
OK. Psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," Bethany Marshall with me.
Bethany, help us out. And specifically address in addition to your independent thoughts why an FBI shrink was brought into the home.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": This FBI shrink is going to want to know were these dogs barkers or biters? And did anyone present at a local ER? Were there toys for this little girl? Did this family treat this little girl as if she had a future? In other words toys that would be developmentally ahead of her current age. Were there signs of neglect or abuse? For instance, was there adequate food in the refrigerator --
GRACE: You know, Bethany, I can`t understand what you`re talking about toys. What did you say about toys?
MARSHALL: If a family feels that a little girl is not going to be around, they`re not going to supply the child with toys. If the family had a hand in this little girl`s disappearance, they would most likely have thrown the toys away as soon as the little girl went missing. That`s what we have seen in many cases.
So the behavioral analyst is going to want to rule all of those vital clues out as well as was there a relative living in the house or coming in and out of the house that took an unusual interest in this child.
This family made a lot of assumptions in this presser. And I would want to be very interested in those behavioral clues --
GRACE: What do you mean -- whoa, whoa. Don`t -- don`t, don`t just throw something out there, Bethany. What do you mean the family made a lot of assumptions during the presser?
MARSHALL: They assumed they were taking the attention off the little girl. They assumed that there was a financial motive, that this child was being held ransomed for money, the father, Sergio, said, we will never stop looking for you. Buried in that is the assumption that this little girl is going to be gone for a long, long time.
Why those assumptions? Is it that English is a second language? This is a peculiar way of talking? Is that in the consciousness of the parents they may have already known what happened? Or is there a nexus as your other guest talked about, another story that`s going on that is yet to be told? Such as a crazy relative who`s a pedophile, a vendetta. Somebody who had befriended the family because of the dad`s status as a Little League coach and they had allowed this person access and now they`re feeling horribly guilty and there`s some sort of unconscious cover-up going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, New Jersey medical examiner.
Dr. Manion, you must have millions of thoughts on this case. Tell me.
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Absolutely. The -- I`m sure the police and the forensic people are looking at the grass outside this window. They`re looking for any footprints, any sign of maybe someone discarded a cigarette butt. That could be evidence.
Also as they look at the screen, if the screen was removed from the outside, probably some type of a pry bar was used. I`m sure they`ve taken the screen back, looked at it for fingerprints and they`ll also try to look at the crime work very carefully and document it.
GRACE: To the lines, Amy -- Jennifer, Tennessee. Hi, Jennifer, what`s your question?
JENNIFER, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: I was curious if they have done DNA testing on the carpet and fibers found in the car that was in the driveway.
GRACE: OK. Ellie Jostad, what do we know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Nancy, police are telling us that they are doing forensic testing on items that they`ve taken out of the house, out of the car. But they won`t say the status. They won`t say what they`re testing for.
GRACE: OK. I want to go to Greg Kading, former LAPD detective.
What should the cops be doing now, Greg?
GREG KADING, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Well, fortunately with this new witness, or at least the one that the public became aware of, that`s just invaluable information because it narrows down a timeline. She`s saying 6:30 in the morning. Now they can look at the collective videotape from down the street. Narrow a timeline. So that can be truly invaluable information.
They are going to continue to expand the scope by bringing in outside resources such as the FBI and continue to just look at every single thing. And typically we have a saying in law enforcement, when you have no suspects, everybody`s a suspect.
GRACE: And to you, Gaetane Borders, missing child advocate, weigh in.
GAETANE BORDERS, PRESIDENT, PEAS IN THE PODS, ADVOCATE FOR MISSING MINORITY CHILDREN: Nancy, I promise I`m not trying to stir the pot. But the one thing that does not sit well with me is if Alicia told the prosecutors or the investigators immediately after they found that she was missing that she heard these voices why then was there no Amber alert issued?
GRACE: Let me find out. Jean Casarez, don`t you have to have a description of a car and so forth for an Amber alert?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": There`s got to be evidence of an abduction. Hearing voices is not evidence of an abduction.
GRACE: Everyone, tip line, 520-882-7463.
Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant William Neil, Jr., 38, Jersey City, New Jersey, killed Afghanistan. Third tour. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. An Elite Green Beret. Gave up a career on Wall Street to reenlist. Loved car shows, restoring cars. Reading, piano. Four nieces and nephews. Favorite movie "Godfather." Favorite food, veal parmesan. Leaves behind parents Pat and Bill, sisters Veronica, Barbara, Patty.
William Neil, Jr. American hero.
Thanks to our guests and especially to you for being with us.
Tonight, our prayers with little Isa Celis. Please come home.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
