Return to Transcripts main page
Police Examine Security Camera Video in Isabel Celis Disappearance
Aired April 27, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live Tucson. A parent`s worst nightmare, Mommy and Daddy tuck their 6-year-old girl into bed. Daddy checks on Isabel 8:00 AM, she is gone. Isa`s room and the home searched by K9s, including cadaver dogs. Cops execute a third warrant at the home, search a nearby landfill, then remove fabric and pillows from a red Acura parked in the driveway.
We learn Isabel usually sleeps with the two brothers, but not that night. An FBI shrink in the home analyzing it, as we place Isa at a Little League game the night before. Mommy and Daddy breaking their silence, as a key witness`s bedroom just feet from Isabel`s reveals what she hears in the moments before the child reported gone.
Bombshell tonight. At this hour, cops poring over the floor plan of Isabel`s bedroom and the wide gap between her and her parents` bedroom. Mommy and Daddy fear the focus is on them and go back into hiding. Police searching nearby lakes with sidescan sonar and underwater cameras.
And tonight, we uncover secret surveillance showing the back alley adjacent Isa`s bedroom at the time of the kidnap. Tonight, with us live, an eyewitness to what that video reveals. As the reward for missing Isa mounts tonight, where is 6-year-old Isabel? We investigate the clues left behind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGIO CELIS, ISABEL`S FATHER: We are cooperating to the fullest extent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A very big window.
SERGIO CELIS: We`re looking for you, Isa!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think the family had noticed that Isabel was missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re checking lakes and ponds near the home of the 6-year-old girl who vanished from her own bedroom one week ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was wide open at 8:00 AM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were a little frantic.
SERGIO CELIS: We love you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police were almost on the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when she heard voices, she started barking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isa`s father was in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misdemeanor leash law charges.
SERGIO CELIS: And we miss you so much!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Male voices, multiple male voices.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are considered victims.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He asked if I had seen a little girl that was missing.
BECKY CELIS, ISABEL`S MOTHER: We don`t want the focus to be taken off Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not losing one bit of interest in this case.
SERGIO CELIS: Tell us your demands!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The wide open window, the dogs barking -- the family wasn`t woken up by dogs in their own house barking?
SERGIO CELIS: Tell us what you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there`s a lot of stuff that police have known for a few days, we`re just finding out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven`t eliminated anyone.
SERGIO CELIS: Please, please!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart is breaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you said on the morning that Isabel was found missing that you could see some people going back and forth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you see there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we did notice people walking up and down the street. We have a couple of cameras in the back. Coincidentally, they happened to be able to capture a picture of the street that Isabel`s home is on. This is the house right next door to Isabel`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This house right here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That house right there. And you can almost see the window. This morning, Alicia was doing an interview, and her window was right next door to Isabel`s. And she heard some noises out there this morning. So we had these things running that night. We have an additional camera here that sees the alleyway. This is the alley that leads right into the subdivision just about 30 yards away from Isabel`s home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was video from NBC`s "Today." Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live, Tucson. At this hour, cops poring over the floor plan of 6-year-old Isabel`s bedroom and the wide gap between her and her parents` room, police searching a nearby lake with sidescan sonar and underwater cameras. Where is 6-year-old Isabel?
In the moments before we go to air, we believe we spot Daddy driving by in a white vehicle, tinted windows, still wearing the Isabel T-shirt and the rosary.
Straight out to Paul Birmingham, news director, KNST. Paul, what is the latest? What can you tell me about the search of this lake with sidescan sonar and underwater cameras?
PAUL BIRMINGHAM, KNST (via telephone): Yes. This is a lake which is about six miles from the Celis family home. This is called Lakeside Lake. It`s about 14 or so acres, maybe 35 feet deep. Pima County sheriff`s department search and rescue team were out there on large pontoon, again, with these underwater cameras and this side-scanning sonar.
They were brought out there -- police at least were brought out there on a tip. Now, what that tip is, we don`t know. They were searching for some sort of evidence in the case. That is just one of a number of lakes which are going to be searched as part of this investigation.
GRACE: Paul Birmingham, KNST, you`re telling me cops went to this lake based on a tip. This lake is extremely close to the home, is it not?
BIRMINGHAM: It is close. It`s not far of a drive at all. And again, this is a place that not only has that lake but also has some hiking trails and playgrounds. So that`s a wide area for detectives to go in and look for any sort of physical evidence.
GRACE: Right. And remember, Paul Birmingham, it doesn`t necessarily mean they`re looking for a body there. They could be looking for something else related to this. For instance, in the Laci Peterson case, it was important to find the cinderblocks that weighted down her body. There are a number of things that could be in this lake.
Very often, when I would have a homicide with a missing weapon, I would look, have cops look in nearby lakes to determine if the block had been removed from the weapon and thrown into the water. That`s very, very common.
And it also reveals -- Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," if they`ve got a tip to go to this lake, it suggests to me that they believe the perpetrator may not have been able to go very far from the home to discard evidence.
Hold on. I`m going to go to Natisha Lance, standing by right there at the family home. Jean, I`ll come right back to you. Natisha, what can you tell me about the dad being spotted as we go to air, driving by in a white vehicle still wearing Isa`s T-shirt and a rosary?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, just as we were setting up here, we did see a white Lincoln drive by. There was somebody else driving the car, but in the passenger seat, it appeared to be Isabel`s father. And I could see through the window those rosary beads that he was wearing in the first press conference that they spoke at, speaking to the public, as well as the "Bring Isa home" shirt.
Now, in addition to that, the car drove home by again past us. The grandparents live at the end of this street. The car parked there. Three people got out. We couldn`t make out exactly who it was because we`re too far away, but I did still see that T-shirt with Isa`s face on the back of it.
GRACE: Joining me right now, I`m hearing in my ear, also there at the family home, a special guest joining us. It is Rick Moore, the owner of Moore Security Services. His business has surveillance cameras pointing directly at the Celis family home.
Rick Moore, thank you for being with us. Rick, question. You own Moore Security Services -- M-O-O-R-E. And your specialty is, in fact, surveillance cameras and other security devices, is that correct?
RICK MOORE, MOORE SECURITY SERVICES: That`s absolutely correct. We also do intrusion. And it`s more security solutions, Nancy. Thanks.
GRACE: So a lot of people are wondering why would you have cameras trained on the Celis family home. Explain.
MOORE: You know, Nancy -- Nancy, that was almost a coincidence. Really, our thought process when we set the cameras up was to protect the back of our facility. Our showroom is literally about 25 yards from where we`re standing right now.
We put a couple of cameras in the back to protect the back entry in case of intrusion on our showroom, to protect the vehicles that are parked there for the employees. And of course, there`s a lot of graffiti and tagging going on, so we were hoping to maybe use it for that. And we have seen tagging going on.
But coincidentally, the cameras are looking right over in this area. We`ve got a couple cameras that are facing the alleyway, and then one that happens to see right towards the street that Isabel lives on.
GRACE: OK, Rick Moore, everyone, joining us, the owner of Moore Security Services, actually has cameras trained on the Celis family home.
Have cops come to your place and taken or looked at video of that alley behind the Celis family home which was being videoed at the time of the kidnap?
MOORE: They certainly have, Nancy. They contacted us right away, about 8:30 on Saturday morning. We do have some signs up in the back of the showroom area, where the cameras are located. It has our phone number on them.
So what they did was they contacted us right away. My general manager came down to the facility, to the showroom, interviewed for four or five hours with detectives, looked at footage then, reviewed footage, then came back Monday and spent basically all day.
Then had us record the information for them on a USB drive. We furnished them with all the information that was stored on the hard drive, on our digital recorder. They took it with them. Hopefully, they`ve got it now and they`re poring over that information that may provide some leads for this investigation.
GRACE: OK, very quickly, Rick, where is the original video?
MOORE: The police have it now.
MOORE: I imagine it`s at a substation, and hopefully, they`re poring over it, Nancy.
GRACE: And you know, the reason I`m asking that is because there becomes a whole lot of issues at trial trying to get things into evidence that are duplicates, when the law requires the highest and best evidence -- in other words, the original video. I was just immediately thinking ahead.
OK, Rick, have you seen the video?
MOORE: You know, I saw bits and pieces of it, Nancy.
GRACE: What did you see?
MOORE: The detectives and the investigators -- I`m sorry?
GRACE: What did you see?
MOORE: What did I see?
MOORE: You know, we saw -- what we see is a lot of vehicles, Nancy. We did see some people coming through the alleyway. The cameras are trained right onto the alley, which leads right from where we`re standing right now. So we see cars coming in and out, a lot of vehicles, makes, models, color, things of that nature. And I`m sure that`s what the police are using to investigate it.
We also saw some people wandering through the alley. Whether that`s pertinent information, I`m not sure. But it is information that the police took with them, and I`m sure they`re chasing down those leads.
GRACE: Got it. OK, Rick, when you state that you see cars going by, you can see tag numbers, you can see people. What did you see around Isabel Celis`s home that Saturday morning around 8:00 AM?
MOORE: You know, what we saw that morning -- again, it had been light for a little bit. What we basically saw, the first people we saw on the street -- we did see some activity in the alleyway right behind us. But the police have all that evidence.
What we saw right here was a couple of people walking up and down the street, Nancy. And we think that that was maybe the father and the brother. And then the police had us right at that moment cut off the digital recording, and they took that evidence and that`s when they took it away. So we think that that was just the father...
GRACE: So they did not let you see the rest of it?
MOORE: No, ma`am, they did not. We don`t have it anymore.
GRACE: So what you observed, Rick, that morning around 8:00 AM, approximately 8:00 AM...
GRACE: ... is Isabel`s father and his brother, which would be Isabel`s uncle, walking around in front of the Celis home.
MOORE: Nancy, that`s conjecture on my part. I think that`s who it was. The police didn`t want us to speculate about who that was.
GRACE: OK, great. You earlier -- I get it.
MOORE: We didn`t know Isabel`s father at the time (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I get it, Rick. I get it that you don`t know who the people are. You earlier mentioned...
MOORE: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: ... quote, "activity in the alley." What activity in what alley?
MOORE: Well, there`s an alley, Nancy, right behind us. It`s about 25 yards right behind us. That`s, again, about 25 yards from the front door of Isabel`s home. And it runs right behind our showroom, and that`s where our cameras are trained on. So there was activity up and down that alley...
GRACE: What kind of activity?
MOORE: ... probably pretty typical activity on a Friday night.
GRACE: What was it? That`s what I`m asking. What did you see?
MOORE: Again, it was just people wandering through alley, vehicles coming up and down through the alley and vehicles walking -- coming out of the alley that`s right here in front of Isabel. Now, what makes and models and tags were, that`s in the police`s hands now, Nancy.
GRACE: Question. Is your video infrared?
MOORE: It does have infrared technology, fortunately, Nancy. So these are outstanding...
GRACE: What does that mean...
MOORE: ... cameras, new technology...
GRACE: ... to us dummies?
MOORE: ... we`ve got there. What that means is that now we have the capability with this new technology, Nancy, that we can see things from a pretty good distance at night. These cameras do work very well at night.
GRACE: So your video...
MOORE: We`ve got the best...
GRACE: ... is going to be able to capture...
MOORE: ... cameras trained...
GRACE: ... surveillance of tag numbers and people, even though it`s dark outside, right?
MOORE: It is pretty amazing technology, Nancy. And that`s kind of the point, is that there`s a lot of new and great stuff that you can use to protect yourself and your community and your family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Narrow a timeline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Friends of the Celis family say that Isabel was here at the ballpark, watching her brother`s baseball game, the night before she went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That she was put to bed at 11:00 o`clock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 6:30 on the morning on Saturday, I woke up. My dogs were going crazy. Their dogs were going nuts. And I remember briefly waking up and hearing male voices outside my bedroom window.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother did not see Isabel before she went to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She left for work at approximately 7:30 in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 8:00 o`clock is that timeline when the father went into the room to check on her, to wake her up, but Isabel is gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reports one of her siblings collapsing and going into a neighboring store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Telling the worker there, We were asleep, we didn`t hear anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By 8:14 is when he called police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: At this hour, we`re getting reports that the search is now expanding to a park six miles from the family home, and that based on behavior of detectives, it seems indicative of suspicion or perhaps evidence that has not yet been discussed with the public.
Tonight, we investigate the clues left behind. With us, special guest Rick Moore, who had video cameras specifically trained on the Celis home. He describes seeing who he believes to be Isa`s father and uncle coming out of the home around 8:00 AM that morning, walking back and forth, apparently looking for Isa, we can surmise.
Also, he has infrared capability that during the night can get tag numbers, even descriptions of people up and down that area. Rick Moore is with us and taking your calls.
Now back to you, Jean Casarez, I was going to earlier, legal correspondent, "In Session." Let`s narrow down the time of that 911 call, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, the 911 call was made shortly after 8:00 o`clock in the morning, when it was discovered that Isabel was not in her room. So everything seems to conform to that 911 call. But at 6:30 in the morning, when the men`s voices were heard by the neighbor, what does the surveillance video show at that point?
GRACE: What I`m trying to determine is the neighbor, Alicia Stardevant, spoke to us in depth, states that she heard dogs barking at 6:30 AM. You see people out looking around at 8:00 AM. She states that -- Alicia Stardevant -- the family was at her front door at 8:00 AM, banging on the door.
What time was the 911 call exactly, Jean?
CASAREZ: I think it was a little bit after 8:00. But Nancy, what she said corroborates the surveillance video that sees the uncle and possibly the father of Isabel or brother of Isabel walking outside on the street. She corroborated that.
GRACE: Ellie, what time, do we know exactly, was the 911 call?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, exactly. It was 8:14. But police did say family did a quick search before they called.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A desperate search to find Isabel.
BECKY CELIS: We are here today to plea...
SERGIO CELIS: To the person or persons who have Isabel. Tell us your demands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened to the 6-year-old little girl?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel`s window is right on the other side of this wall. It`s about 40, 50 feet from the street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Window was open and a screen was off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very scary. It makes you think twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Children just are disappearing miraculously from their bedrooms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tuck in your kids every night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not ruling essentially anybody as a suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight we put out the word. Police in the last hours have made a public plea for photographs and video from anyone that may have been at a park or event where the Celis family attended. That includes that Little League game the night before she goes missing. They were there very late.
This as police pore over the floor plan of the home. Let`s see the floor plan, Liz. We have obtained the family home floor plan. What are your observations, Ellie Jostad?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, you can see that the bedrooms -- the bedroom we believe was Isabel`s bedroom is all the way on the other side, almost the opposite corner of the house from where the parents are in that master bedroom, we assume. There`s the family room. The kitchen is in between. So it`s not as though they were right next door to her bedroom.
GRACE: OK, Ellie, for our viewers, look at the graph and explain to viewers which bedroom is Isa`s and which is her parents`.
JOSTAD: Right. You can see on the left side of your screen, you`ve got the middle bedroom. That`s the one Isa is sleeping in the night this happened. You`ve got the right-hand, right top corner. That`s the master suite, where we assume the parents sleep. In between, you`ve got this family room area, and you`ve also got a kitchen. That`s what that long narrow bar is there.
GRACE: Got it. So for the parents to get to Isa`s bedroom, they`ve got to go out their door, take a turn, through the kitchen, take a turn, kind of going around that door right there, through the family room...
GRACE: ... through a door, take a turn into Isa`s bedroom, correct?
JOSTAD: That`s right, Nancy.
GRACE: Question. I want to go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder, Klaas Kids Foundation. Why are police poring over the floor plan at this hour?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, listen, Nancy, it`s always -- you always have to look within the family first. All statistics take you there. Then they take you outside of the family to, ultimately, the stranger abduction.
But to give a little context to this and why the authorities are searching a body of water six miles away, 76 percent of abducted or murdered children are found within a 12-mile radius of their last known location, and 46 of those are found within a mile-and-a-half of their last known location.
GRACE: And with the help of Pima sheriff`s department, boats and sonar equipment, investigators searching the lake at Lakeside Park for any sign of not only Isabel but evidence that might lead to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel`s window is right on the other side of this wall. It`s about 40, 50 feet from the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the house right next door to Isabel`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My bedroom is directly across from hers. It`s going to be right over this wall right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re going insane. Completely nuts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She thinks the men were speaking English but she isn`t sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is critical because it helps narrow the time line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Special voted quit with so narrow and underwater camera search the local lake for several hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have not named an official suspect or person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us your demands. Tell us what you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not losing one bit of interest in this case.
BECKY CELIS, MOTHER OS MISSING 6-YEAR-OLD GIRL: We just wanted to let you guys know, we have tremendous gratitude toward the detective and his elite team. Our community and the little league community and the TMC family crew and the millions of people around the world who continue to pray and volunteer their time and effort and in efforts of finding Isabel. We do not want the focus to be taken off Isabel by us being in front of the cameras.
GRACE: The parents reportedly back in hiding as they say very plainly they do not want to be the focus of this investigation. But, many naysayers suggest that by them refusing to go public and remaining in hiding they have put the focus on themselves. Unusual because the father is a very public person. Not only is -- do you have those shots of him as a tenor in the Tucson opera? Not only has he performed on stage as a tenor in the opera, a beautiful tenor voice. He works with the little league. He is out and about in the community. Very, very high profile. There you see some of the shots of him about to perform in the opera. This is certainly not his every-day garb.
But, many people -- unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Odom, Karen Conti, Darryl Cohen, state that the reason the parents have been a focus is because they would not come out and make a public plea. They or their camp stated they were not coming forward because police told them not to.
But I, face to face, asked the lieutenant Pacheco, was that true, and he said no. We did not tell them not to make a public plea and the reality is, Eleanor, and I`m going to ask Marc Klaas in a minute when his daughter Polly went missing, he just basically laid on the police HQ steps and said take my DNA, take my fingerprints, do whatever you want to do. I`ll do a lie detector. Get the focus off me and on my daughter, Polly. I want her back.
He made public statements. The works. By them trying not to be the focus they have unintentionally become the focus, Eleanor.
ELEANOR ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy. And of course, everybody reacts differently in a crisis situation. We don`t know what the police are doing. But, we do know this. They usually start with looking at the people who are closest to the missing person.
So, of course, they are being looked at. That may be part of the reason that they haven`t come out and made public statements because the police have been busy asking them questions and obtaining information.
GRACE: And also when I interviewed Lieutenant Pacheco, to you Darryl Cohen, I was asking about poly`s. Of course, he wouldn`t answer. Bu, he said they`re doing everything within in their power to solve this case. That says to me, reading between the lines they either administered poly`s are tried to administer poly`s, Darryl.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly, if they were my client, I would immediately have them take a polygraph and take the results private unless and until they passed it. If they passed it, I would give it to the authorities.
GRACE: Wait. Wait.
GRACE: So you`re saying if your client had taken and failed a polygraph, you would keep that secret but if they had passed a polygraph, you would put it out there?
COHEN: Absolutely. Because we don`t want them to be a focus but right now they are doing exactly what they should do by staying in the background and letting authorities do exactly what they need to do which is to exhaust every possible alley.
GRACE: You know what, -- put him up. Darryl Cohen, I could not disagree with you more because our society, because of the crime rate has become almost numb to missing people. Not numb because we don`t care. Numb because we hear it. It`s like drinking from a fire hydrant. You can`t take it all in. You hear this one is missing and that one is missing and that body found and that body found.
You don`t want your child to blend in and be a statistic. And how do you keep from that happening? Karen Conti, you get yourself out there. You put it on the line. You take the heat. You take the questions.
But people, remember Isabel Celis, that`s why they should be out there. I don`t care if they are upset. I don`t care if they are emotionally distraught. They have to do this, Karen.
KAREN CONTI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they have done what they need to do, Nancy. I understand why they are backing off. They don`t want the attention on themselves. But, listen. They are consistent behavior. Everything is corroborated. The time deadline. They are walking outside looking for their kid. They call the police right away. They offer a reward. They seemed sincere. I don`t see anything here at all that would lead you to believe that they did anything.
GRACE: Well, also, you are right, Karen Conti. Police are saying that they aren`t fully cooperating with police and there`s a lot of times we don`t hear that from police.
Very quickly back to you, Marc Klaas, president, founder of Klaaskids Foundation. What is your advice for the Celis family?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT, FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION (voice-over): Well, my advice is very simple. You get out in front of the camera. There`s nobody that`s going to be a better advocate for their child than they are.
And we`re in a time and place right now with missing children in America where there`s an intense focus on it. All of the cable news channels focus on it. These are mysteries that are enduring until they are solved and certainly the people in the center, the parents, have a very big role in advocating on behalf of their children and doing absolutely everything they can to bring them home so you cooperate with the cops, you cooperate with the media, you understand that they can get more attention for their child with ten seconds on the evening news than you can nailing flyers on telephone poles for 100 years. And you take advantage of those opportunities to make sure people understand that your child is still missing, who she is, what she is, get them invested in her and get people behind you so that forces law enforcement to continue a full-scale investigation.
GRACE: Marc, did you take a poly?
KLAAS: I took a poly within six days, yes, indeed.
GRACE: Wow. And that takes a minute to set up. With me, Marc Klaas, president and founder -- I`m not saying I don`t understand how they`re feeling. I lost a fiance just before my wedding to murder. I don`t think that could possibly compare to losing a child. But Marc Klaas has lost a child and this is his message to get out there.
Another question, very quickly, to you Paul Birmingham, KNST, why are police refusing to say that window that is open and the eyewitness tells me that window is never open and that the screen is never off but it was that morning, why are cops refusing to state that window is the point of entry, Paul?
PAUL BIRMINGHAM, NEWS DIRECTOR, KNST (via telephone): Well, again, they are keeping a number of things close to the vest. They say this is being done to maintain the integrity of the investigation.
The one thing I can say looking at that floor plan and hearing what Alicia Sturtevant, the neighbor said to you yesterday, that does corroborate, that floor plan would be showing her room that is Isa`s room on the left side of the screen or on the east side of the home. That would be right next to Alicia`s bedroom or her room. So, that part can be corroborated.
And even if police aren`t going to say this is in fact her room, we can at least surmise that the parents would be in the master bedroom all of the way on the other side of the house.
GRACE: And we also know that she typically slept with her brothers. That`s not unusual. My twins sleep together.
Marc Harrold, former officer, Atlanta P.D., observations of white noise author, what do you think of the floor plan? What does it say to you, Marc Harrold?
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA PD, ATTORNEY: Well, it`s definitely something to look at. It takes in question how reasonable it is for parents to say they didn`t hear anything. And it`s like, from what I can tell, it`s a single storey home. It`s very large home. From them not to hear anything from way across and opposite corners could be reasonable.
As far as why the police aren`t releasing it as a point of entry, they may look at the window having been pushed out from the inside as a way to hide what happened inside the house.
So, anything is possible. That`s why they are hesitant to say it`s a point of entry. They may have information it was pointed outward.
GRACE: Eleanor Odom, Karen Conti, Darryl Cohen.
Eleanor, very often we find that the location of evidence such as that lake nearby if it has any evidence in that suggests where the perp is if the perp was 20 miles away, they may discard evidence further from the home. If the perp lives closer to the home, they will discard of evidence closer to the home. Explain.
ODOM: Well, yes, Nancy. You have to also think people are going to discard evidence where they are familiar with it. You know, they are going to throw it in a lake they know or maybe a trash dump they know about. That`s where you will find a lot of key evidence. I remember trying a murder case where they found a lot of the evidence where people dumped their trash in a big trash dumpsters and it was all there. It`s where the defendant drove by every day. So, of course, you`re going to look at that stuff.
GRACE: And Darryl Cohen, think about it. The evidence that you found when you were a prosecutor you encounter as a defense lawyer that I found as a prosecutor in inner city Atlanta. The closer it is, you often find it close to where the perp lives, works, or on their route.
COHEN: Absolutely, Nancy. What ends up happening is the perp has done something, whoever he or she may be, wants to get rid of evidence as quickly as they possibly can. At this point they are not normally thinking the way they should so they just dump it when they can where they can.
GRACE: Agree or disagree, Karen?
CONTI: I agree. I`m interested they are looking at the baseball field where the little girl was because maybe there was someone there scoping her out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of breaking developments in this story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where we`re at. An investigative phase.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Possible entry point into Isabel`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A window was open and a screen was off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I discovered she was missing and I looked over at the wall and it was wide open.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She reports hearing voices and we are looking into that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is possible that someone entered that house, a stranger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the family had noticed that Isabel was missing and they were little frantic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t want focus to be taken off Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Person or persons who have Isabel, tell us your demands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This barks a lot but this was a different type of barking. This was a very, very frantic barking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got to find her. That`s all there is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for 6-year-old Isabel Celis.
GRACE: According to reports we are just now getting, the detectives seem to be indicating suspicion or perhaps evidence that they have not revealed to the public. At this hour a nearby lake park side being searched by side scan sonar and underwater cameras.
Michael Gast, founder of the National Academy of Police Diving. Explain to me how well underwater cameras can pick up items underwater, objects underwater and why would they not dive with divers, Michael?
MICHAEL GAST, FOUNDER, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF POLICE DIVING: I don`t know why they wouldn`t be diving with divers, but that`s the bottom line. You got to get divers in the water. The cameras are going to be a dependent upon the visibility and depth of the water and clarity. The side scan sonar is open to interpretation of the person using the sonar. It`s a computer composite of information that comes out and then someone has to read that and interpret from that and usually they are pretty accurate but you can be off a little bit and be totally in the wrong direction.
GRACE: You know, on - I have only dived in the open water out in the ocean. I`ve never dive a lake. What is the difference in searching in lake water versus open water? I mean depending on the open water, you can see very clearly, you know, 150 feet. I don`t know if that`s true for a lake.
GAST: Well, lakes tend to have a lot of decaying vegetation which causes tannic acid to be in the water which turns it to a brown color and limits your visibility. But also, the bottom terrain is usually silky which stirs up very, very easily with slightest movement of both mechanical devices and fish and divers. And so, you are more limited in what you are able to see as an overall area.
GRACE: What it makes this to you - no, go ahead.
GAST: I can tell you this. That two divers doing a circle search can cover about four acres of lake bottom in about 2 1/2 hours.
GRACE: What`s a circle search?
GAST: It`s having a diver in the center and a line going out from that diver to another diver and they search circles working out to about 50 feet which is about four of those make an acre. And two divers can cover about four acres in about two hours.
GRACE: It may make sense that they are trying side scan sonar and if they pick anything up on sonar, then they`ll send the divers in.
To Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified sergeant and pathologist. Dr. Lloyd, I know that you are bursting with analysis. Hit me.
DOCTOR BILL LLOYD, M.D., PATHOLOGIST, BOARD CERTIFIED SERGEANT: It`s been almost a week, Nancy. If there`s a body in the water, it should be floating by now unless it was weighted down. Remember, this is freshwater and so the body is going to decomposed much quicker than a body placed them to salt water or body that has been buried.
GRACE: Paula Bloom, clinical psychologist, weigh in.
PAULA BLOOM, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, listen. We don`t know what`s going on with the family. I just want to say one thing which is let`s not assume that them not wanting to be in front of the cameras means that there is something going on with them that`s negative.
GRACE: Nobody is assuming that at all. In fact, they have come forward. They are fully cooperating with police. And they are saying the reason they`re not coming forward more is because they don`t want to be the focus.
BLOOM: Right. Because listen, we know lots of people that have been extremely guilty who have had no problems being in front of the cameras, don`t we?
GRACE: Tell it. I`ll never forget Susan Smith crying and carrying on, all the time she knew she killed her children. Very quickly, CNN heroes.
MALYA VILLARD-APPOLON, SEXUAL VIOLENCE VICTIM: Two years after the earthquake, the situation is still the same. The people are still under the tents. They don`t have electricity. There is no security where they sleep. They are getting raped.
In Haiti, things are very difficult. Before the earthquake, there were rapes happening. Now I can say it is total disorder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was raped several times. It`s very common even one and a half year old babies are raped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After January 12, 2012, this little child my granddaughter`s wasn`t even 6-years-old yet and she was raped.
APPOLON: Adults are not spared, mothers are not spared, even babies are not spared. My name is Malya Villard-Appolon. I am a victim of sexual violence.
I am on a mission to eradicate this issue so other Haitian women do not fall victim.
We do awareness in the camps. We were working in 22 camps after the earthquake. Now we are trying to work in others.
We tell people to come out of silence. Do not be afraid to say that you have been victimized. We offered psychological and legal support. We have a call center. We accompanied the victims to the hospital. And we have a safe house program.
For me the first thing is justice that I want. I was a victim and I did not find justice, but I know I will get it for other women that are victims.
We have to fight so we can say what was said in the past. Beloved Haiti. This is a great nation. There will be a change.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Vicki, Arizona. What`s your question, dear?
VICKI, CALLER, ARIZONA: First of all, Nancy, I`d like to say thank you and God bless you for all that you do for the victims out there.
GRACE: Thank you.
VICKI: I have to say this that Isabel usually slept with her brothers.
VICKI: Do we know why she didn`t that evening? And also, have the brothers been questioned?
GRACE: The brothers have been questioned. To my understanding. Natisha Lance, what do we know about the sleeping arrangement?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE`s PRODUCER: There is that report out there, Nancy. That Isabel would usually sleep with her siblings. And we don`t know the reason why she was in her own room this particular night. Yes, as you just stated, the brothers have been questioned by police.
GRACE: Denise, Oregon. What`s your question, dear?
DENISE, CALLER, OREGON: When I heard the neighbor`s statement yesterday about having multiple male voices, my immediate thought was a kidnapping for the sex trade industry. Just because there was multiple --
DENISE: -- voices. Are they looking into that? I`m sure they are. But --
GRACE: Paul Birmingham, KNST, what do you know?
BIRMINGHAM: Again, police saying they are not ruling anything out in this case. Everyone remains a person of interest. So, that`s something they haven`t ruled out at all.
GRACE: The tip - the reward is mounting. Tip line, 520-88274 3.
Let`s stop and remember marine sergeant Michael Washington, 20, Tacoma, Washington, killed Afghanistan. Third generation marine. Purple heart, Navy and marine corps achievement.
Remembered for his faith in God. Loved soccer, UST football, history and classics. Never got to meet his newborn niece, Jasmine.
Leaves behind parents Michael and Grace. Sister, Ashia.
Michael T. Washington, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night from the New York control room. Let`s see the control room. There they are. Hi, Danny, Liz, Dana. Somebody`s hiding. Probably Rosie.
And good night from a group of beautiful Alabama girls from the Houston academy. Mary, Lucy, Summers, Mary, Reese, and Hannah.
The blue knights law enforcement motorcycle club 20th annual ride to honor Georgia police officers in the line of duty killed. This Saturday April 28th, starts at turner field. Go to blueknightsga7.org.
National Crime Victims rights week. We remember Jennifer Ertman, Elizabeth Pena. The teenage friends walking home when abducted and killed, 1993. Three of the six defendants executed. Two serving life. One, 40 years.
Tonight, our thoughts and prayers with little Isabel. Must she return home.
Everyone, I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.