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Nancy Grace
Tucson Police Continue Investigation Into 6-Year-Old`s Disappearance; Isabel Celis, 6-Year-Old Girl Still Missing; Isabel Celis` Parents Hiding from the Press
Aired April 30, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Tucson. A parent`s worst nightmare, Mommy and Daddy tuck their 6-year-old girl into bed. Daddy checks on Isabel 8:00 AM, she`s gone. She usually sleeps with her two brothers, but not that night.
Isa`s room and the entire home searched by K9s, including cadaver dogs. After a third search at the home, police move on to a landfill, then bring in fabric and pillows from a family car. An FBI shrink goes into the home to analyze it, and we place Isa at a Little League game until 10:00 PM the night before.
Cops pore over the floor plan (INAUDIBLE) Isa`s bedroom and the wide gap between her and her parents` bedroom, as Mommy and Daddy fear the focus is on them and stay in hiding. Police searching nearby lakes with underwater cameras, as we uncover secret surveillance showing Isa`s home that night.
Bombshell tonight. Police refusing to say whether Daddy under surveillance. We learn even the police tell the family it is crucial they speak out for Isa`s return. Isa`s parents yet to appear at the search command center before or after their one statement to press.
We learn each member of the Celis family under scrutiny. Tonight, an All Points Bulletin for six pedestrians near the home. In the last hours, an alleged sighting of 6-year-old Isa. Tonight, where is Isabel?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still no sign of a 6-year-old girl who`s missing from Tucson. Surveillance video captured the group walking from a nightclub and a parking lot close to Isabel`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One individual self-identified. Detectives have spoken with him, took a statement. A few other individuals were also identified and they`ve interviewed those.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does that surveillance video show at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they witnesses?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel Celis`s parents say their daughter disappeared from their home after they put her to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would that be constructive if they would speak directly to the media here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I absolutely believe that that would be constructive, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you urging them to do so?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve attempted to do so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mexican law enforcement officials are also helping search for Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We understand that some folks might feel frustration. Believe me, we feel it, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have no reason to believe that she wouldn`t be alive. So I`m incredibly hopeful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, Tucson. Even though police tell the Celis family it is crucial they speak out for Isa`s return, Isa`s parents yet to appear at the search command center before or after their one statement to the press, police refusing to say whether Daddy under surveillance. And in the last hours, an alleged sighting of 6-year-old Isa.
We are in Tucson and taking your calls. This as an All Points Bulletin for a group walking near Isa`s home spotted on surveillance. Let`s see that surveillance video, Liz.
Straight out to Paul Birmingham, the news director, KNST. Paul, a lot happening in the last hours. What do you know?
PAUL BIRMINGHAM, KNST (via telephone): Absolutely. Well, start with that surveillance video that was released on Friday by Tucson police. Initially, we see five people in that video who were in the neighborhood, walking from a nightclub near Isa`s family`s home.
Now, also in that video, we see a sixth person emerge. Police do not know who that person is, but they definitely want to speak to them to see if they may know anything. At least three of the individuals seen in that video have spoken to detectives. What have they told detectives? At this point, police are not saying.
GRACE: Paul Birmingham, KNST, it`s my understanding that the group of five is made up of three women and two men. Yes, no.
BIRMINGHAM: Yes, that is correct. And that sixth person--
GRACE: OK, well, I can tell you right now -- Sheryl McCollum, very quickly -- they`re not involved. They may have seen--
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: They`re not involved.
GRACE: -- something, but you`re not going to find a group with three women in it that are going to agree to steal a little girl out of her home in the middle of the night, OK? So they`re not suspects, I don`t care what police are saying. But maybe they saw something. Yes, no, McCollum.
MCCOLLUM: Yes, absolutely. That`s what the police really need them for. Did they see a vehicle, did they see another person? These people are not suspects, but they may have key information.
GRACE: OK, Paul Birmingham, I`m interested in that sixth person that emerges. It looks like a lone male walking along near Isa`s home. What can you tell me, Paul?
BIRMINGHAM: Basically, this person remains a mystery. Police also are interested in this individual, and that`s part of the reason they`re getting this video out to the public, because they want these individuals to come forward by themselves, to self-identify, as police say.
Three people have done so so far. We`ll just have to wait and see if that sixth person now comes forward, as well, along with the others.
GRACE: Joining me right now in Tucson at the Celis family home, our producer Greg Overzat. Greg, isn`t it true that you went into some of these establishments, you went into these bars, you went up and down the entire area. And isn`t it true that some of these locations have not been approached by police for their video, their surveillance video?
GREG OVERZAT, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. The two bar and restaurant establishments that are across the street from the church, where it`s believed that this group of three women and two men were leaving that night -- they have turned over their video and they have been questioned by police. However, there is a bank that is right next door that has not been asked for their video at this time.
GRACE: Well, what`s interesting me, Greg Overzat, is that one lone figure. I don`t care about the group of five. They may have seen something. Probably not. But what I`m interested in is the lone male. It appears to be male. Let`s see it again, Liz. I think he was wearing a white shirt and darker pants -- or it`s the reverse. Let`s see. Yes, white -- lighter top, darker pants, walking along, late. It`s in the early morning hours, I believe around 1:30 AM.
So Greg Overzat, there are still establishments yet to hand over their video. Some of these, we`ve learned, their video cameras are not working. But there are some with video that have not been handed over to police because they haven`t been asked yet.
Straight back to Paul Birmingham, KNST. What can you tell me about police telling the Celis family it is crucial that they get out there and make public pleas for Isa`s return? Because their camp told me straight up that police told them not to speak. But that`s not what cops are saying.
BIRMINGHAM: That`s absolutely right, Nancy, and police are reiterating that perhaps for that very point. They want to make it clear that they are doing nothing to prevent the family from speaking, and as you say, they want the family to speak because they believe as much as they can get in front of the cameras, that will continue to keep this case alive in the hearts and minds of the public, not that it`s fading yet, but they believe -- they being the detectives -- believe that it is important that the family stay out there--
GRACE: Right.
BIRMINGHAM: -- and put that human face to this story.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance. What can you tell me about the search command center? You`ve spent a lot of time there. Who`s manning it? And have the parents been there?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): The search command center, Nancy, is in that parking lot where the Office Max is. And those cameras have come into play here, too. The parents have not been out there that I have seen thus far. The most that the parents have been out there is when they came out there to make their first public statement. But since then, we haven`t seen them.
GRACE: OK, Natisha, who did you say is manning the search command center?
LANCE: Most of the volunteers who are there are friends and co- workers of the mother, Becky Celis.
GRACE: And she`s a pediatric nurse. So it`s her friends, her co- workers. Natisha, where does the father work? Do we know yet? He`s a dental assistant?
LANCE: We haven`t been able to confirm where he works, Nancy, but we do know tat he has spent a lot of time with the Arizona Opera. He`s worked with them in the chorus for 20 years. They actually held a benefit concert yesterday for him. Extended family as well as friends of his were at that concert. They didn`t show up there. They were actually at a church service yesterday evening. The family made an appearance there, but did not speak to the media.
GRACE: OK, what can you tell me -- back to you, Greg Overzat. Various people were interviewed in the last hours about the Celis family members. Who was interviewed? And what members were the focus of those interviews?
OVERZAT: Well, it has primarily been the children because we`ve learned from police that all three of the Celis children, including Isabel, were in school on that Friday before she vanished. And now police have turned their focus to their classmates, their friends.
They are interesting in just finding out what they may have said over text message, how the family has been the week before she vanished, just their most recent activity and what has been going on with that his family.
GRACE: OK, Greg, let me break this down. Who was interviewed by police?
OVERZAT: It has been the -- well, the children of the -- I`m sorry, Isabel`s brothers were interviewed by police. They`ve been questioned. And now they`ve just been reaching out to their classmates. And they have also now been circling back to people they have interviewed previously to see if--
GRACE: No!
OVERZAT: -- at this point in the investigation, their stories are still--
GRACE: Let me rephrase my question. Ellie Jostad, it`s my understanding that friends of the Celis boys have been questioned.
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. We spoke to a woman who said one of her grandchildren, who is a friend of one of those brothers. The brothers are 10 and 4 years old -- that those--
GRACE: No, 10 and 14.
JOSTAD: Correct. Right. Sorry. That`s what I meant to say -- 10 and 14 -- that their friends are being talked to by police. They want to know what the brothers have told them, what they were into, what their personalities are like, what their temperament is like. They`re asking those kind of questions to these little friends of the brothers.
GRACE: OK, now, Ellie, I want to be very clear about something. These brothers, ages 10 and 14, are not under suspicion.
JOSTAD: Correct.
GRACE: The fact that police are asking them, their little friends, about their home the week before, what the boys were into, that doesn`t mean suspicion`s on them.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: To me, that says police are trying to find out about the family unit.
JOSTAD: Exactly. Police said that. They said that they want to talk to everybody who was associated with this family. That means friends, it means relatives, it means extended relatives, it means extended -- the extended network of acquaintances.
GRACE: Exactly. Exactly. Unleash the lawyers, Ken Padowitz, former prosecutor, Miami, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, New York, Holly Hughes, defense attorney, Atlanta.
First of all, to you, Sanchez. Do you remember when JonBenet Ramsey went missing? Everybody was screaming -- not me -- Oh, it`s the brother. Look at the brother, Burke. That brother was more frail than JonBenet Ramsey was. There`s no way that brother was involved.
As a matter of fact, fratricide or sibling murder or homicide is so extremely rare, it`s practically not even a consideration, including in this case.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, I think it`s good that the police are investigating the brother and questioning the friends of the brother. That`s -- that`s--
GRACE: I don`t think that`s what they`re doing.
SANCHEZ: -- certainly a good investigative technique. However, Nancy--
GRACE: Put Sanchez up!
SANCHEZ: -- I think you`re jumping to some serious conclusions.
GRACE: No! No!
SANCHEZ: How come -- why did you dismiss the people in that video just because they`re women? We have seen on the show a million times the vile crimes that women have committed. For you to make a statement on national TV that the women in that video absolutely had nothing to do with this, I think that`s egregious!
GRACE: OK. Let`s take a look and analyze what you just said. All right, first of all, women that we have profiled that have committed heinous crimes have acted typically alone, almost universally alone, almost universally against their own child or against their mate, be it a live-in or a husband. Now, if you doubt that, I advice you to go back to criminal law class!
Do you agree or disagree, Ken Padowitz?
SANCHEZ: No, I disagree, but I think it`s--
GRACE: I said Padowitz!
SANCHEZ: It is improper for you--
GRACE: You`ve already had your chance to put out falsities.
SANCHEZ: Don`t dismiss--
GRACE: So let me hear from you, Padowitz.
SANCHEZ: -- potential suspects.
GRACE: Padowitz--
KEN PADOWITZ, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Nancy, agree with you.
GRACE: -- please weigh in.
PADOWITZ: It is very -- it`s very unlikely, Nancy. And I agree with you that three women who are accompanied by men are going to be involved in a crime involving this child -- they should be looked at--
GRACE: So--
PADOWITZ: -- and examined, but yes, it`s very, very unlikely. I agree with you.
GRACE: So Holly Hughes, by creating this ridiculous argument, Sanchez has just wasted about a minute of our time to publicize the search for the person that kidnapped Isabel Celis. It`s not three women and two men coming out of a bar, Holly. Agree or disagree?
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree, it is not those five people. They are potential witnesses only.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- by countless tips and a recanvass of the area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still no sign of a 6-year-old girl who`s missing from Tucson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six years old and abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) suspicious disappearance, possible abduction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The corner of the house here is the bedroom window that, again, is right across from Isabel`s bedroom window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The desperate search to find missing Isabel Celis before it`s too late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The video captured the group--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, we learn about an alleged sighting of 6- year-old Isa. Straight out to Thelma Gutierrez, joining us from LA. Thelma, what do you know?
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, there have been several sightings, but the one sighting was leading police actually to Mexico. So now they are looking in Mexico, which is about 45 minutes from Tucson, that Mexican border. They`ve circulated some of the flyers to the agents in that area, Nancy, to keep an eye for this little girl.
And there was a sighting, they say, in Mexico, that someone apparently spotted a girl that matched Isa`s description. They`ve checked it out. It seemed to be a false sighting.
GRACE: Thelma, please describe for me what the sightings are. Was she allegedly at a shopping mall, outdoors, playing on a playground, at a restaurant? What do we know, if anything, about these alleged sightings?
GUTIERREZ: Well, Nancy, we know that one of the sightings was in a market area in Mexico. But again, you know, this is something that people are checking out because her name has been out there.
And as you had mentioned, police are asking the parents to come forward to keep their daughter`s name in front of the media--
GRACE: Well--
GUTIERREZ: -- in front of the public, so that anybody who recognizes her will come forward. But there is another sighting also. There was a sighting of her, apparently, at a hospital. Again, that one turned out to be false, Nancy.
GRACE: Was that hospital in Mexico?
GUTIERREZ: That hospital is in Tucson. Someone said they saw a little girl in there who matched Isa`s description. Police checked it out- -
GRACE: OK, so that--
GUTIERREZ: -- and it was not Isa.
GRACE: Both dead ends, but they have been investigated. About 300 more tips have poured in since we last analyzed the case. Thelma, I know that there was a special mass for Isabel`s return last night. Did the parents speak out? I believe they were at the mass?
GUTIERREZ: Nancy, you`re right, the parents did show up to the mass. The family showed up. There were 300 people there, as you had mentioned. They all wore purple, which was Isa`s favorite color. But the family did not speak.
Police say that they believe that it could be that they simply want to let police to do their job, so they`re not coming forward. But they say clearly that it would be very helpful if they did because the last time they did, Nancy, there was a spike in the tips that came in.
GRACE: Do we know why the Celis family have not returned to their home, Thelma?
GUTIERREZ: No, we don`t, Nancy. They are staying at the home of Isa`s grandparents, which is nearby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the case of the 6-year-old girl who disappeared seemingly without a trace.
SERGIO CELIS, ISABEL`S FATHER: We love Isabel and will never give up finding her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police tell us the trash in Isabel`s neighborhood was picked up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The location of the trash they were looking is strategically placed in the landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anxiously watch, wait and hope little Isabel is found safe and sound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we`re not ruling out anything in this investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And everybody is just totally distraught. It`s like we`re afraid to let our children out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, what do you make of the fact police are begging the parents to speak out publicly for the return of Isa, yet they have gone back into hiding once they read their one prepared statement? What do you make of it?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I make many things of it. First of all, if they do believe that the police should be allowed to just continue their investigation, they have to realize that they, too, have a portion in this. They, too, have a very important job, and that`s keeping public awareness alive and keeping the focus on finding Isabel and not distracting people towards the family.
Of course, the authorities are going to continue to look at the family. That always happens because that`s where the numbers take you. That`s responsible investigative technique. But until they`re eliminated, they still need to be out in front.
They need to be talking to people. They need to be helping to alleviate the fear that, yes, indeed, there`s a monster out there and the kids in Tucson are not going to be safe until that monster is caught. Well, they have a very huge component in ensuring that that occurs.
GRACE: Well, a concern is, Marc Klaas, that they have not been to the command center, where people are working diligently, their friends and co- workers -- the mom`s anyway -- to find their daughter, not there to egg them on, not there to support them, to thank them, nothing. Why?
KLAAS: Well, it sends -- again, it sends a very bad message that there are other people that are not related to Isabel that are doing more to effect her recovery and return than the family is. It just -- it`s a sad set of signals that, unfortunately, in this day and age, gets sent out every time a family reacts adversely to the kind of publicity that is inherently thrust upon them in this situation.
GRACE: To Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. It could be they`re simply overwhelmed, Dr. Ramani.
RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. I mean, this is the ultimate trauma for a family, and different families are going to react in different ways. In the terror they`re in, they may very well be pulling back. But at this point, I agree, they need to get out there. They need to get the word out.
GRACE: Holly Hughes, what do you make of it?
HUGHES: It`s very suspicious, Nancy. If you have a child who goes missing, you want to do everything in the world. First of all, you wouldn`t be able to pry me out of that house. What if the little girl comes home? What if the kidnappers call that home number? It`s very suspicious.
GRACE: Well, what do you make of police telling them, point blank, It`s crucial you speak, but they don`t, Holly?
HUGHES: They want a face on this grief.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 6-year-old girl, little Isabel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel was last seen by her parents --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The screen was removed and the window is open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isabel was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new witness caught all surveillance tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The video captures the group walking from a night club in a parking lot close to Isabel`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were five people there at the time and we want them to hopefully come forward to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This floor plan shows how someone could have snatched Isabel from their home without her parents hearing anything. Their bedroom is across the 2300 square-foot home in a corner on the opposite side of the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still saying suspicion, disappearance, possible abduction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, tonight.
Police also poring over the floor plan at the Celis family home, and noting the wide expanse between Isabel`s room versus her parents` room. Let`s see that floor plan.
Very quickly, I want to go back to Paul Birmingham, KNST. Do we know why Isa did not play with her brothers that night. My twins sleep together, usually, also with me, every single night they sleep together. Why not that night? Do we have an answer?
And, based on the floor plan and the size of the home, Paul Birmingham, do we know whether the parents could hear what was going on in Isa`s bedroom. Could the mother hear what was going on in the bedroom?
PAUL BIRMINGHAM, NEWS DIRECTOR, KNST (via telephone): We don`t have an answer to really either of those questions, why in fact, Isabel was not sleeping with her brothers. At this point, that maybe known to the detectives, they`re not revealing that to the public.
As far as whether her mom could hear over the distance of that large home, again that`s a question we don`t have an answer to, though, given the size of the home and also the fact that you could have had an air conditioner on overnight, something along those lines, it would be strange if she was able to hear anything unless there was a cry out or something along those lines. There could be movement and she not be able to hear it.
GRACE: OK. To Natisha, what is the link of the home? I`m showing the floor plan. But, how big is the home? Because I know all the windows were shut typically, so you wouldn`t hear outside noise. How big was the home, do you know?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): We believe it was about 2,800 square feet.
GRACE: So that`s not huge at all. I want to go out to you, Ellie Jostad. We are hearing reports that there may have been some types of a get together, an impromptu party at the home that night after the little league game. I don`t see it with the timeline, because they were still at the little league game I think until around 10:00 p.m. They say they put little Isa to bet bed at 11:00. I guess that doesn`t conclude they still be in the home even though the children were asleep.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, this is something police been asked about. Were there any strangers in the home or, you know, people outside - I shouldn`t say strangers, acquaintances, guests, friends, people outside of that immediate family. And they will not confirm that, Nancy. We talked to a neighbor who said she didn`t see any sort of party going on when she got home at 1:30.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Ellie, are you talking about the next door neighbor?
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: Well, she never see as part of their house anyway.
JOSTAD: Well, she said she didn`t see any cars over. She didn`t see any people coming and going.
GRACE: I know. But Ellie, that is irrelevant, because and I`ll tell you why. I agree you`re right. But here`s why I don`t think it matters. I asked her, did you see the mom leave in the morning, no. I don`t see her car. Do you see who is in the front house? No. Have you ever seen them in the front of the house? No. She seen on the backyard one time.
Her view is not of the driveway or what was going on, on that side of the house. So, she wouldn`t know anyway. The only thing she knows is what she heard on the backside of the house at 6:30 a.m. in the morning Isa disappeared.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: So, she doesn`t know who`s parked in the front of that house.
I want to go to out to you, Marc Klaas, we also hear that cops will not reveal, confirm or deny, they are surveilling the father. Even if they are, I don`t know that that is raising a flag of alarm, because again, they have to look at who`s closest in the family.
But what they do find unusual, and I`m going to go to Sheryl McCollum after this, is they will not confirm or deny a lot of what seem to be innocent details, like which parent put her to sleep. I had to pull a tooth to find out that the mother did not check on her that morning she went to work early. Why didn`t she sleep with the brothers that night? Very, very -- what I consider to be innocent facts, they will not confirm or deny. Why?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT, FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, I don`t know that it`s law enforcement`s job to do that, maybe they`re keeping this close to their vest because they`re concerned about inconsistencies in statements. I think this is something the parents need to come out and talk to the public about.
As with every other guest on your show, I certainly wish that they would change their approach to this and start being more public and let the nation see who they are and find out exactly who this little girl is.
GRACE: So Sheryl McCollum, why are those facts being kept secret?
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, COLD CASE INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: I think it`s good investigative technique. Nancy, criminals normally take the path of least resistance. In this case you`ve got a gigantic wall at that house they want you to believe that the stranger went over. While the dogs are going crazy barking. And they just happen to pick the right window where the child is, where normally she`s never there. That`s a pretty lucky kidnapper.
GRACE: OK. Repeat.
MCCOLLUM: Again, you`ve got a dog barking. You`ve got a huge wall that somebody`s got to go over. Get the 6-year-old who weighs 50 pounds, get her back over the wall while the dogs are going crazy barking while nobody sees or hears anything.
At the same time, you pick the right window. The brother`s bedroom window and her window are right next to each other, but they pick the right one and only she`s never there. I think that`s a fairly lucky kidnapper. So, to me, that`s a red flag. That`s not an innocent, you know, clue. To me that is very, very questionable that that occurred.
GRACE: Paul Birmingham, KNST, I understand cops are also not revealing whether polygraphs have been administrated, but the other night, lieutenant Pacheco told me to my face that they have done all they can do at that juncture and followed S.O.P., standard operational procedure, which means to me, they have poly or tried to poly every member of that family.
BIRMINGHAM: You are exactly right. He did indicate that they is done everything they could. And S.O.P. is in fact to administer those polygraph examinations, understanding nay are not necessarily admissible. However, they do want it out there that in fact they have done everything they could. And while not saying it includes polygraph, what is left with the assumption given what lieutenant Pacheco said, that in fact has occurred.
GRACE: I`m hearing in my ear, joining me right now is a special guest out of new haven, renowned professor, Dr. Henry Lee.
Dr. Henry Lee, thank you for being was.
DR. HENRY LEE, RENOWNED PROFESSOR: Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: It`s great to see you, doctor.
LEE: Good to see you.
GRACE: I have got a lot of questions, but before I ask you my questions, your understanding of forensics is so far beyond my own. Let me just ask you a general question of your observations in this case.
LEE: Well, this case, of course, you know, the police try to do everything they can. Usually this similar type of case over my career, you must give -- you basically ask a public opinion, give the information, of course, interview the parents and also you have to look at the crime scene and physical evidence, try to do a timeline analysis, a geographical analysis, try to put all the possibilities together to do a thorough approach to this case.
GRACE: Dr. Henry Lee, is it possible that forensic evidence may have been missed in a particular spot? Would that require of course another search warrant to go into the home and also, is it more difficult, Dr. Lee, because you would expect to find certain DNA evidence from Isabel in the home?
LEE: OK, Nancy, that`s an excellent question, OK.
This case would have to first to look at as they said, a random hit, somebody just walk by there, decide to kidnap her, or is it a preplanned case, somebody already after her for weeks, or even months to observe her activity, family activity and whether or not this is something tragedy, something happening in the family, or maybe she just decide to walk away. So, all of those possibilities.
Crime scene actually can give us some clue. The window was open. We have to know who opened that window. Is usually that window open? And what`s the size of the opening? That`s also give us clue. When they investigate the Elizabeth Smart case, they flew me over to salt lake city. We looked at the window. We looked at the screen, whether or not the cutting was from the outside in. Here, I have heard a report that a screen was pushed.
And also, we have to know is it pushed from the inside out or outside in, to eliminate this possibility. Inside a house, of course besides fingerprint DNA, commonly will look at trace evidence, hair, fibers, even soil particle, pollen particles.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of breaking developments in this story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where we`re at in an investigative phase.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A possible entry point into Isabel`s bedroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Natisha Lance.
Natisha, is it true that Isa had the only window that was higher up off the ground as opposed to the brothers`? And aren`t those brothers windows right besides hers in the back of the house or was that a bathroom window?
LANCE: Hers was actually lower than the other windows on the side of the house. I can`t make out exactly what those windows are. But in some of those higher up windows, Nancy, you can see little baseballs bats, little baseball caps. So, we believe based on the floor plan that we have, that would be one of her brother`s bedrooms.
GRACE: Thanks. Let`s see that floor plan. Hers is the only window that`s lower, the others are higher. Because I want to determine where the brothers` windows are. Yes, yes, yes. I see. That may be a bathroom right between -- I don`t know if that`s a bathroom between the two bedrooms or is that a closet? Because it`s not clearly marked.
We are taking your calls, out to Belinda in Kentucky. Hi, Belinda, what`s your question?
BELINDA, CALLER, KENTUCKY: Hi Nancy. I`m a parent that has been through the same situation and I can`t comprehend why these parents haven`t been pleading and begging for information on her whereabouts.
GRACE: I agree. And, it is very, very unusual.
To you, Ellie Jostad. Have they given any explanation whatsoever, any comment at all?
JOSTAD: No, Nancy. And the was that Lieutenant Pacheco from 25PD explained it. As he said, from their point of view, they think it would be crucial and important for the parents to speak out and keep this in front of the public eye. And he said, you know, to maintain the interest in the case, get their faces out there, get Isabel`s face out there.
But he said, the parents have been given all the requests that the police have gotten from the media, passed those on. And the family hasn`t explained why they don`t want to talk.
GRACE: Well, there is one issue - very quickly -- let me see Klaas and McCollum.
Sheryl McCollum, do you remember the Danielle Van Dam case?
MCCOLLUM: Yes.
GRACE: The parents actually did speak out all the time. But then, they came under suspicion because they at one point in their life had been swingers and had smoked pot. So, they were dragged to the mud about that. That did not preclude them from coming out begging for the return of their little girl Danielle. So, long story short, there may be some other issue that we are not aware of, that keeping us Celis family from speaking out.
What about it, Sheryl?
BIRMINGHAM: This could be. But, Nancy, aside from them speaking out and pleading for her, if they`re at the command center, they get the information immediately. Any parent would be starved, what do you know? And they would want to know at the exact same time as the police do, not sitting at grandma`s house.
GRACE: What about it, Marc?
KLAAS: Two things. Number one, there are always issues. You`re right about the Van Dam case. And you know what, they fell on that sword and they faced it. We have exactly the same thing going on in the Sierra Lamar case, right now. The father has they have the exact same issues, but the father fell on that sword and he goes out there day after day after day.
The second thing is, is that the vast majority of the parents of missing children in this country would give their lives to get the kind of attention that`s being offered to this family and being rejected by this family.
GRACE: We are taking your calls.
Jennifer, Michigan. Hi, Jennifer. What`s your question?
JENNIFER, CALLER, MICHIGAN: Hi, Nancy. I know the police were - and I know that parents house a couple of times and I don`t believe it`s ever been disclosed what exactly they found in there. And also, I have three daughters and the only thing that would keep me searching for my kids is if I ended up in a mental ward because I lost my mind because I didn`t know where my children were. And his comment was right. You know, they should be praising God that they`re getting all this media attention and everybody willing to help. And the fact that --
GRACE: I agree.
JENNIFER: The fact that they`re not taking advantage of that is just appalling.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Ken Padowitz, Alex Sanchez, Holly Hughes.
I don`t want to make them out as suspects, because they`re not. They have not been named suspects in this case, just because we find their behavior unusual, does not a suspect make.
Ken Padowitz, all I know is that with my child was missing for about three minutes in a toys "r" us. I went berserk. I screamed out, my baby boy`s gone. Of course he was playing hide and go seek with mommy, hiding under a bunch of clothes about 30 feet away from me, but I didn`t know that. I would have done anything. That`s just a tiny example. And we have laid out for instance the Van Dams, Sierra Lamar`s father.
What Danielle`s Van Dam`s mom did, she really got dragged through the mud, she really did. Brenda Van Dam, I`ll never forget it. And she did it all for her daughter.
Weigh in Padowitz.
KEN PADOWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you`re correct. They need to get front and center. This family needs to come out. There`s probably reasons in their minds, emotional reasons why they have haven`t done so to the extent that is needed. But, they need to come out. They can`t bet the whole farm on the police doing the investigation. They need to step up, help the police. Get out there in front of the public.
I have four children, I would be out there, I would be doing everything I could. This family absolutely needs to get out there.
GRACE: Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, the fact of the matter is there have been people, parents that have come forward and gone out on TV and cried and told their whole story and they turned out to be guilty and culpable. So, I don`t know if we should extrapolate from the fact that they are not going on TV. That there is somehow, they must guilty, somehow they must be involved.
GRACE: Sanchez.
The minute you leave the studio, I want you to go straight to the ear nose and throat doctor to have your ears check. Because the first thing I said is that they are not suspects. And I gave other examples of parents. They got to drag to the mud for speaking out. There could be some reason we don`t know.
You know what, just hold that thought.
Out to you, Greg Overzat, you`re on the scene, what are you hearing?
GREG OVERZAT, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy. Well, last night there was a special mass that was held at the church where -- that the family goes every Sunday, they`re always frequenting here. And they did attend last night.
Now, they did not speak out, and there were members of their family that did take part in the mass but the family was there. When they left they did not speak to any reporters. No media was allowed inside. And they have been keeping a very low profile. Although cops are saying they are fully cooperating with this investigation. Even though they are not speaking out just yet.
GRACE: Thelma Gutierrez, what else are you hearing?
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy. What we`re hearing is now police have expanded that search and they have actually gone out to the border. They`re looking at the possibility of this child having been moved, perhaps, from Tucson, 45 minutes south to the Mexican border.
The reason, Nancy, we don`t exactly know, but there have been sightings of Isabel in Nogales, Mexico, which turned out to be false.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we developed from the video is that the video that we presented captured a different day. Not the day in question, as we thought. The issue was the videotape was not date and time stamped, so it was actually capturing information from Saturday.
We learned that through the interviews from these individuals that we spoke to. We were in contact with the company that provided us with this videotape, and we learned that they incorrectly passed along that information to us, telling us that that was video from Saturday, April 21st, where we were thinking that was Friday.
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GRACE: Let`s stop and remember army specialist Jordan Hess, 26, Marysville, Washington. Lost his life at Brook Army Medical Center after injured in Iraq. Family at his bedside. Bronze star, purple heart, army commendation medal. Loved art, glass blowing, photography, poetry. Leaves behind parents, William and Tammy, five brothers, sister, Ashley.
Jordan Hess, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you.
And thank you to Louisiana friend, Lou, who made these beautiful outfits, both of them for the twins. They wore them this Sunday at church where we had services on the ground.
Congratulations to University of South Carolina student Claire, awarded the prestigious Arne Robinson child`s award for the most outstanding women`s studies student. Claire graduating this August. Congratulations, beautiful Claire.
And happy birthday to Georgia friend, Mary Cartwright. Renowned preschool teacher. All of her students love her. P.s., she taught Ryan Seacrest. And my twins. Here she is with husband, tom. Retired lawyer who can still crack a contract and sings a solo every palm Sunday. Parents of three boys, now grown men. Happy birthday, Mary.
And happy birthday, North Carolina friend, Sis. Loves vegetables, flower gardening, reading, time with grandchildren.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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