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Dr. Drew
Sexless Marriage?; Secret Desires?
Aired May 07, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: So, here we go.
I`ve got a question for you. Is the passion gone from your marriage? Not for actress Lisa Rinna. She`s right here taking your questions on keeping it spicy with your spouse.
Plus, my own wife is going to provide I guess some secrets. We`ll see.
And they`re calling it "mommy porn." It`s the book "Fifty Shades of Grey." Is this just "Hustler" magazine for moms?
Your questions about love, sex, marriage and more. So, let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
PINSKY: Tonight, we are pulling back the covers on sex. Aren`t we clever?
This is Lisa Rinna, and I want to help you and your partner put the spark back in your love life.
Now, I have been married for more than 20 years, and Lisa has been with your husband, actor Harry Hamlin for more than two decades as well.
So what is successful for these long marriages? Well, Lisa reveals this in a new book "The Big Fun Sexy Sex Book." Emphasis on fun and sexy sex.
A survey by CNN found that more than 40 million Americans are stuck in sexless marriages and this is an attempt to sort of address that, is it not?
LISA RINNA, ACTRESS: I guess so, in many, many ways. You know, I teamed up with Dr. Ian Kerner.
PINSKY: Who I know, who`s excellent.
RINNA: Who you said, yes, good --
PINSKY: I saw he was on the cover, oh, excellent.
RINNA: He`s amazing. You know, long story short, we met, and I had written a book back in 2008 called "Renovation." And that was about reinventing yourself at any age. I opened up in one of the chapters about my loss of my sex drive after having our kids.
PINSKY: Babies, very, very common.
RINNA: Killed it. Dead. Done.
PINSKY: Very common.
RINNA: I opened up about it.
PINSKY: By the way, that`s God`s way of making sure we don`t have children right on top of each other.
RINNA: Except for Tori Spelling.
PINSKY: No, listen, it`s supposed to happen. That`s why men need to kind of suck it up a bit, particularly in the first year after the baby`s born. Because we`re busy taking care of children at that point. And that`s the priority. And then the sexy sex afterwards.
RINNA: Yes, absolutely. Mine was more than that. I really felt it was an issue. More than just, OK, we`re taking a break while we have the kids.
So, I write about it in the book. Women are coming up to me. They`re so -- they responded to it, like, so amazingly. I thought, OK, that`s really great. Maybe I`m helping.
Meet Ian, Ian says, hey, you know, I love your book, "Renovation," why don`t we write a book together about sex? I thought, how great, because you`re an expert, I`m married. We could do a he said/she said and the book was born.
We wanted it to be fun, accessible and get the conversation out there.
PINSKY: And although it is fun, you address serious stuff here. I like the fact you get into real significant medical issues and parenthood and everything else. The medical lifetime -- you know, the -- what am I trying to say? Across the life span where sex becomes an issue, addressing it, right?
RINNA: Yes, exactly. There`s so many things involved.
PINSKY: Oh, yes, there are.
RINNA: I learned so much writing this book with Ian.
PINSKY: Yes.
RINNA: It`s not just, OK, I`m in a sex rut. There are so many issues.
PINSKY: Psychological, biological, interpersonal, and by the way, one thing that`s not emphasized enough is the perimenopause and menopausal issues, these days, guys, if you`re listening -- if sex, somehow, seem not interested at all anymore, think of medication, think of biology if you`re a little bit older and these have solutions.
Let`s take a couple calls. Shall we?
RINNA: Yes.
PINSKY: Let`s talk to Jesha I believe is the name in New Hampshire. What do you have for us?
JESHA, CALLER FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE: Dr. Drew, I`m not enjoying my sex life with my husband whatsoever and the rest of my life with him I enjoy tremendously.
PINSKY: How old are you?
JESHA: I`m 53, and he`s about 57.
PINSKY: Are you on any medication?
JESHA: No, I`m not at all.
PINSKY: OK. So to me --
JESHA: And he is for, you know, for heart and things like that. Diabetes.
PINSKY: So he has medical problems. Is he having erectile dysfunction also?
JESHA: Yes, actually, which is usually the secret that women keep and then you wonder why they`re so miserable.
PINSKY: So here we go.
JESHA: It`s probably that. Exactly.
And so to compensate his issues, what he says to me during sex are things that you would find, like, in porn.
PINSKY: Oh, goodness. That puts you off even more, I bet.
JESHA: A thousand percent.
PINSKY: Jesha, I got a book to recommend to you.
Let me just say, honey, thank you for calling. That is such a poignant story.
Let me just say, having worked with a couple for many, many years, when they lose that part, they really lost something significant. You can hear the loss and the grief in her voice. She`s stricken.
RINNA: Absolutely. Clearly, they`re not connecting --
PINSKY: Right.
RINNA: -- in so many ways.
PINSKY: Where do we start?
RINNA: Where do we start? There are so many issues that are touched on in the book. I mean, you`ve got --
PINSKY: Let`s go with the E..D., because E.D. is erectile dysfunction. You deal with that in the book --
RINNA: I think there`s four chapters on it, actually.
PINSKY: Fantastic.
RINNA: Yes. We really deal with it.
PINSKY: So for him, heart disease -- by the way, for men out there who have erectile dysfunction, if you`re over the age of 30 and start to have that difficulty, heart -- it`s one of the very first presenting symptoms of heart problems. You should up get up on a treadmill. Jesha`s husband has heart problems, has heart medication.
There are medical solutions for that. He should ask his doctor about that. He should think about that. This is an important part of the relationship.
Same thing for her, I would say. Taking post menopausal -- I mean, there`s controversy about hormone replacements therapy. Where do you ring in on that?
RINNA: You know, it`s funny, because I`m getting closer and closer to that. It`s something I`m talking to my doctor about. I think it`s all personal and you have to talk to your doctor about it and find out what`s right for you.
I think hormonal balance is the most important thing however you can get it.
PINSKY: I agree with you. How about this guy harkening back to pornography? What do we do with that?
RINNA: Well, you know, I think it`s his way, obviously --
PINSKY: He`s trying.
RINNA: He`s trying. Clearly that might be where he`s getting his satisfaction right now. So maybe there`s some way that you can come to -- you know what I`m talking about.
PINSKY: It`s a very lovely way of painting that picture.
RINNA: So maybe there`s some way they can meet in the middle.
PINSKY: Yes. Right, right. Good point. Always compromise and talk about it.
If this is something that helps him with arousal, do it in a way not being off-putting to her.
RINNA: Of course. And if he talks to her, honey, this is something I need you to do. She maybe more open to helping him out.
PINSKY: Lisa, Dr. Kerner helped you out. Taught you a lot of stuff, didn`t he?
Lindsay, what`s up in Seattle? What`s going on?
LINDSAY, CALLER FROM SEATTLE: My question is regarding affairs. My husband had one. It`s been two years, and when you decide to, like, move on with your relationship, I`m kind of just curious, like, it still feels so hard. You know what I mean?
PINSKY: Oh, boy. Have you guys had any professional help with that?
LINDSAY: We started a little bit. We have three kids, so it`s kind of hard to find time. And, you know, that was one of the main reasons for staying together. But --
PINSKY: Was the kids.
LINDSAY: Right.
PINSKY: Oh, you --
LINDSAY: You know, and the other terrible part was it was with someone I consider a friend.
PINSKY: Oh, Lindsay, I`m so sorry.
LINDSAY: Thank you.
RINNA: How have you been able to stay together?
LINDSAY: Well, so we had a -- when it started our kids were 2 and 4 and then while we were trying to decide what we were going to do after I found out about it, it was about four months long, I got pregnant. So --
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. Well, let me say, people have varying opinions about this. I want to thank you for making a commitment on behalf of your kids. And you should know --
LINDSAY: Yes.
PINSKY: -- that I and many of my colleagues that work with on a regular basis, work with couples like you all the time. These kinds of crises can end up with the relationship going to a much better place, real intimacy can be established. Often times, people are lacking a genuine connection.
You know, sex can be a cover for a real connection, too.
RINNA: Absolutely.
LINDSAY: Right, yes.
PINSKY: You have to know -- yes, so particularly with three kids.
You guys have how many kids?
RINNA: Two. Two girls.
PINSKY: This would have gotten in the way of your life, too. Imagine three kids. I had triplets, for crying out loud.
RINNA: I can`t even imagine.
PINSKY: We`ll talk about that in a few minutes.
But, listen, my dear, I say get professional help and hang in there with that, because this could end up in a very good place. He needs an assessment to figure out why he thought that`s an OK to do. Sometime sex addiction -- hopefully he`s not that.
LINDSAY: He had lost a lot of weight and he was flattered. She started, like, approaching him on Facebook.
PINSKY: Stay away from her. This is not your friend. That woman that you thought was your friend is not your friend.
RINNA: Wow.
PINSKY: But, you know, the fact is, think about the fact -- let`s talk about this, Lisa, a little bit, that sex, while it can be good , can sometimes be a cover for intimacy, can it?
RINNA: I think it can if you`re not really talking and you`re not really going there, and you`re not going through the fear a fire as I like to call it.
PINSKY: What does that mean? Describe it.
RINNA: Walking through the fire? Well, like, really, it`s hard to describe but getting down and dirty.
PINSKY: Together.
RINNA: Together.
PINSKY: Like being willing to listen to each other`s fantasies, dreams, desires, and trying to compromise and achieve.
RINNA: Yes. I think so.
PINSKY: Or you`re going to have to tell me --
RINNA: Really being vulnerable.
PINSKY: You`re going to have to tell me a personal story about being vulnerable.
RINNA: I will. I talk about it my book. Absolutely.
PINSKY: When we get back from the commercial. We`re going to -- I want to hear that story when we come back.
And I have another surprise for you, because if your sex life suffered after you had children, I`m going to talk after the break also to a mother of triplets, our triplets. She is joining us. That`s right. My wife is going to talk about these issues as well. We`ll hear Lisa`s story about vulnerability, and her and my story about similar stuff to what you guys went through, when we get back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN PINSKY, DR. DREW`S WIFE: I`m thankful for having you in my life every single day. And I`m thankful for the family that you helped me be a part of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with actress Lisa Rinna. She`s the author of the "Big Fun Sexy Sex Book."
Now, Lisa, before the break, we were talking about walking through the fire and being vulnerable. And I said, tell us your personal story. Let`s hear it.
RINNA: All right. I`ll tell you a personal story. I, after having my child, my first daughter, Delilah, had severe post-partum depression. I kept it a secret. I didn`t say a word.
PINSKY: To anybody in your family, or anybody in the world?
RINNA: To anybody in the world.
PINSKY: So your husband didn`t realize?
RINNA: Nothing.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness.
RINNA: He thought I was just nuts. He had no idea what was going on. And I was so hopeless and felt so lost that when I finally, 10 months later, opened up to him and told him how worthless I felt, my self-esteem was gone. I didn`t want to have sex, obviously, that was part of it.
But it was opening up something that I felt so much shame about was the most valuable thing that I could have done.
PINSKY: That`s a very important message for any moms out there that might be experiencing that because you`re supposed to be joyous and happy and available, and you`re feeling worthless and angry and irritable and disconnected from your spouse.
RINNA: It was really, really challenging, obviously. I mean, women that have gone through it know that.
I suffered silently. I don`t want any woman to ever have to do that again. You have to talk about it. You have to be open to your husband and you have to call your doctor, certainly.
But it was that connection that I had with Harry, once I opened up and said, you know what, I feel worthless. I have no self-esteem. I am lost. I`m hopeless.
I mean, I`m a very positive person. I`m a go getter. I was gone and scared to death. I thought I would lose him.
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. You figured if he knew how bad you were feeling, he`d leave.
RINNA: Yes.
PINSKY: Oh, goodness gracious.
RINNA: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. Well, I`m going to bring in --
RINNA: There you go. How about that?
PINSKY: That`s a good one. Be very careful when you go get treatment. What you need to do, the serotonin uptake, the SSRI medication, can further suppress your sex drive. You have to be careful about that.
RINNA: Yes, I know.
PINSKY: Is that addressed in your book?
RINNA: It is in "Renovation," yes.
PINSKY: Good. And that happened to you.
RINNA: Yes. I wasn`t on it for very long.
D. PINSKY: I`m bringing in another guest, another woman who experienced something similar to what you experienced. However, she did so after triplet. It is my wife Susan. Susan, thank you for joining us. She`s out in New York collecting our triplets from college.
RINNA: Hi, Susan.
S. PINSKY: How are you, Lisa?
D. PINSKY: Susan and Lisa last were in the same room together at "Dancing with the Stars" and there was a spark between them.
RINNA: We fell for each other.
D. PINSKY: I thought the sexy sex book was going to get acted out there and I was going to be left out. I`m sorry.
RINNA: I think you have a hot wife. She`s a happening girl. Definitely. You`re a lucky man.
D. PINSKY: I am a lucky man.
But, Susan, we had triplets. We went through -- talking about walking through fire. We had to deal with, you know, three times what Lisa is talking about. Can you relate to what she`s saying?
S. PINSKY: Yes, and everything she`s written about in her book has come true for me at least once I`m sure.
So, I love the book. You`ve done a great job touching on every single issue and how to create a love life with your husband. And I have no problem with the book.
D. PINSKY: Susan, I have a question.
S. PINSKY: Everybody should read it.
D. PINSKY: Thank you for that endorsement.
Ian Kerner is a guy I`ve worked with for a long time and I do also endorse the book. But let me just say, the three of us represent two marriages that living and surviving in this town happily.
RINNA: Yes.
D. PINSKY: But very few others to. It`s sort of mysterious to me. I don`t understand why it`s just us. I mean, I`m very happy.
RINNA: Yes, why -- why do you think -- people ask me all the time, how do you stay together?
D. PINSKY: Well, that`s what we`re supposed to be advocating today, is how do people do that?
Susan, do you have insight into why we`re all still good in our marriages?
S. PINSKY: Well, I think we all care a lot about each other. We have intimacy beyond sex. And we look for ways to create things that we can do around our kids that make us happy together intimately, like, you know, I don`t think sex is the only reason why people stay together. Raising kids together is a wonderful job. And being a part of each other`s lives.
D. PINKSY: How about, Susan --
S. PINSKY: But also --
D. PINSKY: Go ahead.
S. PINSKY: -- having a great fantasy life, you know, have some kind of an idea of a fantasy in your mind of what you would like always helps a lot, too. I think Lisa touched on that in her book as well.
RINNA: I think it`s so much about making an effort and going outside your comfort level. There`s so much the two consensual adults can do to spice up their lives.
PINSKY: OK, ladies. I`m going to ask you to think about what Lisa just said and you`re going to tell us one of those -- each of you are going to tell us one of those things.
But, first, take a call from Amber in California.
Amber, go right ahead.
AMBER, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Lisa, first of all, I love you. I`m such a fan of you.
RINNA: Thank you.
AMBER: You had such a sexual energy with your partner on "Dancing with the Stars." So I`m curious, did that transfer back home to the bedroom with Harry during that time?
RINNA: Yes, it absolutely did. And I will say that there`s something about dancing that opened me up like a flower, so to speak. I mean, the way that you connect to another human being and the way that you`re allowed and given permission to move your body brought so much sexual energy.
It`s not that we had any time or that I had any energy left to have sex. My body hurt so much, I felt like I was a 90-year-old. But I will say that that was part of my sexual revolution, absolutely.
D. PINSKY: Getting back in your body. Literally at that point.
RINNA: Yes, yes.
D. PINSKY: So, Susan, you see, I can go do "Dancing with the Stars" and it will work out great. Is that one of your fantasies?
RINNA: Oh, do it, Susan. Let him do it.
S. PINSKY: Well, you have a fantasy about that. I have a fantasy that you`re going to wear really tight pants on "Dancing with the Stars."
D. PINSKY: That`s your fantasy? Your fantasy doesn`t include Derek?
(CROSSTALK)
D. PINSKY: What`s Derek`s last name?
RINNA: Derek Hough.
D. PINSKY: Yes, your fantasy includes Derek Hough. I saw you almost act it out the other night. I`m just saying.
So, Lisa, what`s the fantasy that you got in mind?
RINNA: For you or me?
D. PINSKY: For you, what yours stuff be. So we can help other women get a sense of what kind of stuff you`re talking about, you got to have that fantasy.
RINNA: I talked about it in the book. And I think you got to be open to things like dress up -- dressing up for your partner, maybe doing a sexy strip. Things that scare you to death you should start to investigate.
I even talk about porn. I like to watch porn. I like pretty porn I call it.
D. PINSKY: Girly porn.
RINNA: Girl pretty.
D. PINKSY: Porn for girls.
S. PINSKY: I`m going to be putting that stripper pole in my new closet. I`ve already decided.
RINNA: Stripper pole`s good, anything that takes you out of that comfort zone. I`d say go for it.
I`m an actor. I`m used to pretending. My husband`s used to pretending. I think that`s fun. We talk a lot about that in the book.
D. PINSKY: It`s funny, you say the girly porn, I`m making fun of that.
But the fact is I`ve talked to people who`ve made porn and they say they`ve learned one thing, is that men like to watch people having sex. Women want to know why the two people like each other that they want to have sex. There needs to be a story.
RINNA: We need a little story. It just needs to look pretty. I want it just to look pretty.
D. PINSKY: How about be respectful to women? Would that be a novel idea?
RINNA: Yes. And some porn I think does that. It`s OK.
And people are probably very shocked that I would admit to that, but I think, you know, sometimes if --
PINSKY: You wrote a book called "The Sexy Sex Book." You admit to that for crying out loud.
RINNA: I like porn.
D. PINSKY: Susan, I got to go, honey.
S. PINSKY: You`re a courageous woman.
D. PINSKY: Yes. Thank you for joining us. Maybe you`ll get to stay -- stay with us for the next segment, too.
RINNA: Yes, I want to know what you like, Susan.
D. PINSKY: We`ll start with that.
Have you ever fantasized about another person during sex with your spouse? We`ll tell you if that`s a good thing or bad thing when we come back.
Taking your calls. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
D. PINSKY: Welcome back.
Actress Lisa Rinna and my wife, Susan, are here with me.
And here`s the deal, guys. Couple of things occurs to me. Before Susan I forced you to play out the fantasy you alluded to before the break. Your book is called "The Fun Sexy Sex Book." Just with you guys here, I`m having fun.
RINNA: Oh, great.
D. PINSKY: But the point is, I think that is something that relationships lack a lot of. Do you really have that fun -- you and Harry have a lot of fun?
RINNA: We have a blast together. We really. And it`s important I think.
Do you two have fun?
D. PINSKY: A lot of fun. And about to have more fun right now. Susan, let`s hear that fantasy.
S. PINSKY: Well, we`re in the Grand Tetons, and we get on the big red tram to the top because we`re skiing and we get on and find out we`re alone.
D. PINSKY: Oh, that`s good. You know what happened then.
RINNA: That would work for me.
D. PINSKY: That`s good.
S. PINSKY: I`m not going to --
D. PINSKY: I think it happened to Lisa, too, by the way.
RINNA: A little public place sex. I love that. It`s a little scary.
Oh, it`s good. Susan, that`s good.
D. PINSKY: Lisa, we asked the question, is it healthy to fantasize about someone other than your spouse during sex? What do you think about that?
RINNA: I think it is. I mean, clearly, I think I have the sexiest man ever in my life to have sex with. I think everybody does a little bit.
S. PINSKY: I fantasize about him a little bit, too.
D. PINSKY: About Harry?
S. PINSKY: I would -- yes, I think I could work him in.
D. PINSKY: Not when you`re with me. Or if you do, I do not want to hear about it.
Men don`t want to hear about that. Just so you know.
RINNA: I think it`s OK. I don`t really do it --
D. PINSKY: Here`s the deal. Men are like laser beams. We are in to you. That`s why we`re there.
RINNA: I only think about my husband when I`m having sex, Drew. What are you talking about?
D. PINSKY: Quick question from a caller, Diana in Canada. Go ahead, Diana. What do you got for us?
DIANA, CALLER FROM CANADA: My question is, I`m a 35-year-old-year-old female with two kids. They`re 11 months apart. Have been with my husband nine years and I have no sex drive whatsoever.
D. PINSKY: OK, now, Susan, we dealt with that same stuff. Can we talk about your hormone replacement experience? Do you want to share that with people?
S. PINSKY: Absolutely.
D. PINSKY: Go ahead. She had early menopause. She got the right sort of potions together.
Talk about it, Susan. We have about a minute.
S. PINSKY: I found bioidentical pellets and they have changed my life. I`m now pumping 220 when I work out. And I am full of testosterone and ready to roll. And I highly recommend hormone replacement.
D. PINSKY: So for her, it was a very -- not only for us, but for her own sense of vitality and stuff it was important, too.
RINNA: It`s so important. I think so many women are lacking in that balance.
D. PINSKY: So what I tell Diana is, you have to go out and see a physician, endocrinologist or gynecologist who`s really enlightened about these issues and weigh out the risks and benefits for you. Is your relationship OK? That`s the other thing to evaluate. Everything OK at home?
DIANA: Oh, it`s great. It`s just once a year, that`s when I get the urge and that`s it.
D. PINSKY: Once a year.
RINNA: You need this book.
D. PINSKY: You need Lisa`s book, "The Sexy Sex Book."
RINNA: It could help a lot of. "The Big Fun Sexy Sex Book" could help because it just gives --
S. PINSKY: And definitely some hormones.
RINNA: Yes. OK, so together, I should sell them together. The hormone/book joint thing. Yes, that could be good.
D. PINSKY: Get properly evaluated to make sure there`s not a depressive issue here that can be post-partum. Any depression, first year after delivery, could be an issue, and, again, pay attention with your psychiatrist or doctor about the kind of medication you receive because the last thing you want to do when you`re feeling disconnected from your partner is have further suppression of your sex drive by the medication. And there are things that you can choose that work out for you.
Lisa, thank you so much. "The Fun Sexy Sex Book."
RINNA: Pleasure. Thank you.
D. PINSKY: Susan, thank you. Have fun in New York. I`ll see you as soon as you get home. I miss you.
S. PINSKY: Thank you.
D. PINSKY: And next up, Susan, you`re favorite book, "Fifty Shades of Grey." The question I`m asking is, do you have this one, too, Lisa?
RINNA: I`ve read. Yes, of course, of course.
D. PINSKY: Takes a new take on women`s desire or is it a crash (INAUDIBLE) as they say. Erica Jong joins the conversation next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Erotica novel "Fifty Shades of Grey" is flying off the shelves, but is it a new take on women`s desires or is it just degrading?
Female pioneer passion, Erica Jong, tells me why "Fifty Shades of Grey" makes her see red.
And later, tan mom goes Hollywood.
And a Colombian prostitute dishes on the secret service. Your calls on that and more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): It has been called mommy porn. The new book "Fifty Shades of Grey" is mesmerizing women all over the country or preoccupying women all over the country. And we did a show about this particular book. I think we were ahead of the curve, because people didn`t seem to understand what it was then. Now, they know it.
It`s a novel that highlights the racier side of women`s sexual fantasies, particularly, like teenage fantasies. My next guest led the way for women to unleash their sexual side and talk about it. Erica Jong wrote "Fear of Flying," which caused a sensation when it was first published almost 40 years ago. It`s hard to believe.
It addressed the issue of women`s sexual freedom. Erica, what do you think of "Fifty Shades of Grey"?
ERICA JONG, AUTHOR, "WHAT DO WOMEN WANT?" "Fifty Shades of Grey" is a book that I call for, you know, brevity, "fifty shades of garbage."
(LAUGHTER)
JONG: Unfortunately, the woman who wrote it seems unaware that there`s a rich tradition of erotica that is open to women, but "Fifty Shades of Grey" actually confused me because it`s this very cliched book about a young woman who falls in love with a master of the universe, and his name is Grey and he wears only gray, and he seems to have billions of dollars, and he warns her not to fall in love with him, because he`s into something really weird.
And then, she goes to the red room where there are manacles and chains. And, he says, you can always leave if you`re scared. And she says, no, because she`s fascinated. So, she stays on with this gentleman in gray who is called Grey, and he penetrates her, and as she loses her virginity, she says, arg.
Then, when she has her first orgasm, she says, holy cow! I don`t know. I never have met anybody who said holy cow upon her first orgasm.
PINSKY: Well, I`ll tell you what --
JONG: I mean, the book is kind of laughable.
PINSKY: It`s laughable. It was poorly written. I want that time -- I want my life back that I spent reading it, that whatever minutes that was, I want refunded. I want that time back, number one. And number two, this guy, Mr. Grey, was a sexual abuse survivor. The perpetrator he`s now in business with, and it perpetuates the fantasy of young woman that they can change guys that are pathological.
Forget the sexuality, forget the S&M component, it just reinforces an idea that is pathological, and it`s a foundation of romantic fantasies that leads people to make horrible choices in our country. So, I want to take some calls, Erica. Here we go. This is Nikki.
JONG: I totally agree with you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Nikki, you want to add something to the conversation? Go right ahead.
NIKKI, CALIFORNIA: I`m a huge fan of the book. I`ve read it several times. The backbone of it is an amazing love story where two people who have come from, you know, different situations in their lives find a connection and help between each other.
PINSKY: Nikki, Nikki, you read it several times? Don`t you want of those times back?
NIKKI: No. I`m wondering when I`m going to start reading it for the third time.
PINSKY: And have you read all three books?
NIKKI: I`ve read them all.
JONG: Is it very erotic? Is it very erotic for you? Does it turn you on?
NIKKI: I just love that they fall in love, and they`re exploring each other. It`s consensual. It works for me. I mean, I`m married. I`m a mother. I work. And it really -- it made me feel empowered.
PINSKY: Nikki, did it make you feel like a teenager again? Because these are such teenage fantasies. You know what I mean? The bad boy -- go ahead.
NIKKI: Yes. It`s kind of like falling in love again for the first time.
PINSKY: Like you did when you were 12 to Bon Jovi? You know what I mean? It`s like, is that really a healthy thing? I`m just saying.
NIKKI: Hey, pour some sugar on me. Whatever it is.
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
JONG: OK.
PINSKY: All right. Yes. Erica says OK.
JONG: I think it`s great when anybody loves a book. I mean, when somebody responds to a book, it`s good, but for me, it`s not a fantasy that really turns me on.
PINSKY: There you go. I`m with Erica. We are in mind meld on this one. Let`s go to Stephanie in Georgia. Go ahead there, Stephanie.
STEPHANIE, GEORGIA: I`m reading it now, and so far, everyone likes it. I`ve heard a lot of the husbands are also enjoying it because of that extra spark in the bedroom. So, I mean, isn`t that a good thing?
PINSKY: Stephanie, let me -- Stephanie, hold on. Let me make sure that I get what you`re saying. So, what you`re saying is the book becomes a sexual aid for couples because it gives women a sense of arousal and empowerment that then translates into the bedroom. Yes?
STEPHANIE: Yes.
JONG: I`ve heard that, actually.
PINSKY: So, Erica, my question to you is, does that make it OK just to have these sort of random fantasies, even though they`re based on pathological kinds of impulses? If it helps them in the bedroom, it helps them in the bedroom.
JONG: If it helps them in the bedroom, and it helps them have great sex, why -- I`m all for it.
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. And I`ve been criticized, Erica, as a male for sort of taking issue with this thing. Who am I to say, you know, women shouldn`t have these fantasies? I`m just saying, my problem is, I end up treating people later who become love addicted and insist upon these things with people that are pathological. Let`s go to Deborah in New York. Deborah, go right ahead.
DEBORAH, NEW YORK: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for taking my call. Don`t you think a book like "Fifty Shades of Grey" would contribute to more infidelity? Some people are trying to say that it`s a love story. But what about love story and affair? Because, I mean, regardless of how hot you get from reading the book, what if your partner isn`t willing to participate?
PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting, Erica. Do you get what she`s asking?
JONG: That is -- this is a question -- I mean, do books make people stray? They`ve been asking this question since Madame Bovary --
PINSKY: Yes.
JONG: And even before.
PINSKY: Right.
JONG: So, it`s a big issue.
DEBORAH: I have three kids from an affair.
PINSKY: Whoa. Deborah.
DEBORAH: So, I mean, get it?
PINSKY: Yes. But I wouldn`t blame that on "Fifty Shades of Grey," I`m just saying.
DEBORAH: No. I wouldn`t --
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
DEBORAH: But no, look, what I`m saying is that I just don`t think that it`s a sexual aid. You`ve got to talk with your partner.
PINSKY: OK. OK. Fair enough. I actually agree with Deborah. Erica, finish that --
JONG: Fantasies are good.
PINSKY: (INAUDIBLE) are going to make everybody evil back in the day in France when novels were going to set society reeling. That`s what you`re talking about, right? Madame Bovary was going to affect society.
JONG: And when I first published "Fear of Flying," I remember "Time" magazine said, if the Erica Jongs of this world have their way, women everywhere will jump from bed to bed to bed. And, of course, those who wanted to jump from bed to bed did so and those who didn`t.
A book doesn`t pervert people. A book maybe stimulates your fantasy, but you`re responsible for your own actions, finally.
PINSKY: Erica, I want to thank you. Again, I think if it`s working for people, I agree with you. Why argue with that? But on the other hand, it reinforces these pathological -- don`t want to call it fantasies, these beliefs about people. So, I got to go, my dear. Thank you so much for joining us.
And next up, what is ever on your mind, we can talk about, whether it`s a relationship, sex, addiction, it`s up to you. I`m taking your calls, and we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIA SUAREZ, COLOMBIAN ESCORT: They like to show off their bodies. Great bodies, well-defined abs. They like attention. And we, Colombian women, are not used to that. I was surprised every time he danced with me, he lift up his sweater so I could see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was one of the escorts hired by the secret service in Colombia. She was on the "Today" show this morning. She called the men stupid brutes, more concerned with partying than protecting the president. What do you think about that? I`m going to your calls. I`ve got Kenneth in Florida. What do you think, Ken?
KENNETH, FLORIDA: Yes, Dr. Drew. I just wanted to say, I appreciate everything you do. My question is not regarding that, it`s regarding the - - you might have to help me pronounce that. It`s Munchausen by proxy.
PINSKY: Munchausen by proxy. Very interesting. Before you -- you`re going to a very complicated area. So, let me comment on the prostitutes and remind that we are talking about prostitutes. They are undoubtedly trauma survivors, and they tend to be interested in providing information that would serve their needs, let`s just say.
It`s interesting how they`re glorifying all this and trying to find ways to vilify these guys who were their customers, by the way. I am just saying. I`m not saying it`s OK what they did. I`m just saying, let these guys be sanctioned and let it be, and it won`t happen again. So, Munchausen by proxy, go ahead, what`s your question about that?
KENNETH: Well, what it is, is I`m a 50-year-old guy. I watch a lot of true crime TV.
PINSKY: Yes.
KENNETH: And there was a show about a woman, she was having babies and then killing the babies to get the attention.
PINSKY: Wow.
KENNETH: And she killed I think, like, seven babies. I don`t know why they didn`t catch onto it sooner, but I`m thinking that`s me, because I love to buy presents and get the same attention --
PINSKY: Hold on a second. You like to --
KENNETH: But I don`t kill people.
PINSKY: Yes, I was going to say. But let me tell you, Munchausen by proxy is an old term for basically when mothers, usually, would bring their children in and report that the child was having all kinds of medical problems, usually, resulting in the children getting surgeries.
There`s something called Burkitt`s syndrome which is more about medical problems, and if you have Burkitt`s by proxy is the kid`s got all kinds of medical problems, I know it. And the child is just sort of the conduit of the mom`s psychiatric and psychological problems. Now, in your case, you say, you give presents? Is that what you said?
KENNETH: Yes, I like to give gifts.
PINSKY: How is that the equivalent to killing babies? How does that work?
KENNETH: I don`t know. I guess, you shouldn`t let a hypercondriac while at cycle --
PINSKY: I would agree with that. Don`t ever read any medical -- don`t go online and read about that. I think it`s great that you give presents. What`s wrong with that?
KENNETH: Well, because I think it`s a selfish reason. And the reason I give them, you know, they get --
PINSKY: Oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I see. I see. OK. So here`s the deal. Here`s what I -- I`m going to tell you a present story, and I`m going to finish with this, Ken. A friend of mine once -- it was actually DJ AM of lovely -- he ended up dying of his addiction, Adam Goldstein.
KENNETH: Right.
PINSKY: When he was in his recovery, he was spectacular. And one day, I said, I like your shoes, Adam. He goes, I`ll get you a pair. I said, no, no, no, please. No, no. I felt uncomfortable. Next day, he showed up at my office with those shoes. And he said, here, I want you to take these.
And it was so stunning to be the object of that kind of selfless giving. I mean, you have no idea what -- it really caught my attention, and I still felt guilty and bad. I said, Adam, I don`t know what to say? He said, just take it. Today, me being able to give and honor you and give you something keeps me sober.
So, by being of selfless service to another, it`s OK to get something out of it, my friend. Give those presents. Adam in West Virginia. You have a relationship question? Go right ahead.
ADAM, WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Adam.
ADAM: I recently started dating this really amazing girl. I mean, she`s mature, positive.
PINSKY: Cool. Excellent. How old are you?
ADAM: I`m 28.
PINSKY: All right. How old is she?
ADAM: She`s 29.
PINSKY: All right.
ADAM: And you know, so on and so forth, but due to a previous emotionally and even physically abusive relationship she was in, she`s very much guarded and she puts up walls.
PINSKY: OK. All right. Well, let me tell you what that is. There`s a reason she was attracted to that particular kind of guy. This is something you have to understand about human beings. When we have traumas in childhood, it wires our brain in such a way that we become attracted to people that end up re-enacting the traumas of our past.
It`s called repetition compulsion, but it`s really that attraction to those kinds of people that drives it. So, she chose that guy it`s not, oh, she`s with a bad guy, now, I`m a good guy. I`m going to rescue her from those bad guys. She was abused way back in childhood, and she seeks that as a way of sort of a pseudo-intimacy.
And when she gets with somebody like you who`s actually available for a relationship, it feels uncomfortable and clingy. She`ll tell you, oh, I have trouble putting up, but I tell you what she`s experiencing is this guy is kind of boring and he`s clingy, and I can`t really -- I don`t know. I`m going to run away, and she will sabotage this relationship, Adam, unless she gets on treatment. I guarantee it.
ADAM: OK.
PINSKY: You understand?
ADAM: I understand.
PINSKY: Are you normally a fixer? You fix people that are broken?
ADAM: I try to be, but she`s a nurse, too. So, she`s kind of a fixer.
PINSKY: Well, but there`s maybe a reason for that. So, maybe if you -- that`s good, because maybe if you bring this up to her, she`ll talk to it and be willing to go work on it because you are exactly the kind of guy she needs to be with, and that`s exactly the kind of guy she runs from. Got it?
ADAM: Got it.
PINSKY: Got it. Christine in Arizona. You have a comment about how sex is portrayed today, right?
CHRISTINE, ARIZONA: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew. I remember when sex used to be fun, you know?
PINSKY: Well, I had --
CHRISTINE: -- very young. I`m in my late 50s, and now, it`s become like a competitive sport where, you know, who`s having the most sex, who`s having the best positions, who`s, you know, it`s on TV. It`s on the radio. It`s on the internet.
PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on. It feels like you`re making a commentary about social, historical context in which you were, as a young person, experienced sex versus how it`s portrayed today, right?
CHRISTINE: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And if you`re wondering why people --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
CHRISTINE: -- you know, lose their sex, you know, after marriage, it`s -- they feel like they`re in a competition all the time.
PINSKY: Well, I`ll tell you where I agree with you. It is that they -- people tend to think it has to be something up here, and men and women experience that differently, and they feel sort of as though it has to be like a drug. It has to be this incredibly arousing experience, and to that extent, I think you`re on to something here, which is sex has become less about intimacy and more about arousal and gratification and, you know, the hottest, most, you know, best looking, longest lasting, whatever it might be.
I think you are on to something, my dear. And let`s both agree that it was supposed to be about sex in its best, you know, in its best form for the human being is about intimacy, right?
CHRISTINE: Exactly.
PINSKY: OK. And I`m actually writing a book about that. And I think there`s a reason we have lost our intimacy, but your point is well-taken. Let`s go to a video question from former "American Idol" contestant and the current star of "Smash."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHERINE MCPHEE, STAR, "SMASH": Hi, Dr. Drew. I`m Katherine McPhee, and I`m working with malaria no more. And I want to know why it has taken so long to come up with a vaccine for malaria.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: For malaria? Is that what she said? Well, because these are -- vaccines are very hard to come up with, the fact of mechanisms to protect against bacteria and things that infect us like viruses and malaria, which is kind of a bacteria, are very, let`s say, smart. The biology is smart. These things find ways to survive.
And we have to find ways to direct our immune system specifically at them and all the different types that are out there. And as soon as we find something to direct at one type, it just changes its protein coat so our immune system can`t identify it anymore, because it`s trying to survive in spite of what we`re directing at it.
So, believe me, people are working on these issues. What`s even more sort of surprising is how -- if you look at the advancements of medicine, the history of medicine, the biggest advances have been sanitation, nutrition, and vaccination.
And yet, we live in a time when vaccines are vilified and, in fact, there will be a giant consequence from people not taking advantage of this, which is the single -- one of the three single most important advancements in the history of medicine. Believe me, the risks of vaccines vastly less than the risk of these real conditions.
All right. Now, next up, "Saturday Night Live" sheds some light on tan mom. Remember, my version of tot mom is tan mom.
And of course, I`m taking more of your calls. We will be right back. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really quick before I go, I want to show you this trick. Are you ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I`d love to see a trick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Piece of bread.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put it between my thighs. Toast.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: She is my favorite. Kristen Wiig roasting tan mom on "Saturday Night Live." Now, I got to tell you guys, this tan mom thing keeps on going. Wherever I look, it`s people are calling in, asking questions about it. So, I guess, we will keep addressing it here and there.
People seem to be just fascinated with who she is, and why she`s doing what she`s doing. She`s quite a study. Let`s go back to your calls. Susan in Minnesota, go right ahead.
SUSAN, MINNESOTA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Susan.
SUSAN: I have a question for you. Do you recommend that people getting out of 28-day treatment programs for alcoholism continue to take another drug called Antabuse when you`re out?
PINSKY: OK. All right. Let me explain to you what my feelings about Antabuse. It`s a little bit complicated. Now, Antabuse is a pill you either take once a day. There also is an implantable version of it that gives you continuous release medication. It`s actually dangerous if you drink on Antabuse. You can actually die, you get so ill.
SUSAN: Right. You can get violently ill.
PINSKY: OK. But understand this. That if you have such difficulty with your impulses that you need help structuring your environment in such a way that you would become violently ill, you would know that, if you drank on your Antabuse, that can help people stay sober. It doesn`t keep them sober.
It allows them enough time of abstinence that they can work the program of recovery, but it`s in no way, in no way is it a substitute for AA and 12-step and the program. It`s no way.
SUSAN: No. I agree there.
PINSKY: But it can help people who, for instance, have to go out and work in the world where there`s a lot of alcohol around and they`re afraid of their impulses. But guess what, if you`re taking the pill every day and you want to drink, what`s going to happen?
SUSAN: I`m going to get sick.
PINSKY: What if you want to get drunk and you know it, and you have to take a pill every day? What are you going to do with that pill? It`s not a trick question. You`re not going to take the pill. That`s what alcoholics do when they want to get drunk. They skip the pill. So, that`s why there is that implantable device.
But listen my dear, just go to the program, get a sponsor, or work the stabs (ph). I see magic every day with the program. Anybody can get sober. All you have to do is have to desire to get well. Cheryl in Massachusetts, what do you got?
CHERYL, MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Sheryl.
CHERYL: When I was 35, I had an ischemic stroke, and I still am dealing with a lot and lot of side effects from it. It was approximately two years ago.
PINSKY: Right.
CHERYL: The cause of the stroke was due to my birth control pill.
PINSKY: Right.
CHERYL: My question is, why is it that doctors, you know, PCPs (ph) and gynecologists don`t inform women that after the age of like 33, between ages of 30 and 35, your chances of strokes, heart attacks, blood clots increase like 100 percent?
PINSKY: That`s right. You`re absolutely correct. Do you smoke?
CHERYL: No, I don`t smoke and I don`t drink.
PINSKY: OK. And to make clarity, the kinds of strokes are usually very, very, very small vessel strokes. The mechanism is not that well- understood. But Cheryl, I would just say thank you for bringing this up. It is something women should be aware of, and it is one of the concerns of people staying on birth control for long periods of time that there is this known risk.
And I think all of us, physicians and patients alike sort of ignore it. And it needs to be discussed. I agree with you. And the risks and benefits need to be thought of explicitly every time the birth control is prescribed to somebody in their 30s and 40s. Thank you, my dear. Thank you all for watching, and I will see you next time.
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