Return to Transcripts main page


One Man, Three Wives, 24 Kids; Horrifying Child Abuse; Sex Toy Secrets

Aired May 16, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Joe Darger and his three wives are here with us. They say polygamy works for them. Is that so wrong?

Plus, most of us can`t imagine anything bad happening to our children. We can`t understand how a parent can harm their own baby. We will explore that.

And later, sex toys are soaring. Are they know longer taboo?

We are live tonight. So, let`s get started.


PINSKY: Good evening and welcome.

Tonight, of course, we`re live and asking why we allowed people to become parents who really shouldn`t sometimes. We`ve all seen the rash of stories lately about abuse and just horrible things happening. I`m going to get to those stories in a few minutes. I think it`s important we make sense of this.

Something I`ve always asked, is -- you know, why do we cure the problem of screwed out people acting out on kids, we would cure a lot of problems in society. Before we talk about that, we`re going to talk about unconventional parenting.

Meet Joe Darger and wives Alina and Vicki. The women are cousins. And Valerie who is Vicki`s twin sister. Joe is legally married to Alina and spiritually married to all three. They live under one roof with their 24 sons and daughters in Utah.

Take a look at this.





JOE DARGER, HAS THREE WIVES: I`m Joe and we are a Dargers.

UNIDETIFIED FEMALE: A positive, functioning family, living a plural marriage and choosing to do it.

JOE DARGER: My parents were in prison and my grandparents grew up with that fear, and I was able to prevent that and stay well (INAUDIBLE) uneasy truths. And I think this generation say it wasn`t working. The time is now and the risks are worth taking, and if we don`t stand up and say the truth, only the negative detractors will define who we are and what our culture and people and faith is about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want them to understand there is a challenge but we chose it. It`s important to us we have this freedom.


PINSKY: Well, their book is called "Love Times Three: Our True Story of Polygamist Marriage".

It is -- allegedly shatters the myths around in polygamy.

Joe, isn`t that illegal?

JOE: It is. A third degree felony in Utah. Not anything I have taken to do lightly.

PINSKY: I`m a huge fan of the television show "Big Love," which I understand, you guys -- the show is sort of based off you guys` life.

And yes. It`s hard for me to get my head around, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, I mean -- let me ask the easy question, how do you afford this?

ALINA DARGER: I can answer that. We all work really hard. Valerie and I work in a family business outside the home. Joe runs a business. Vicki works part-time from home. And we sacrifice a lot and we all work really hard.

PINSKY: And the other part that I know people are going to react to, is that you`re all kind of related, you`re either cousins or sisters. Isn`t that part kind of weird?

ALINA DARGER: We three are but none of us are related to Joe. The sisters` part is no different than Rachel and Leah in the Bible. So, and, culturally, sisters will sometimes marry the same man. So, it`s not so weird to us.

PINSKY: Joe, seriously, you need a lot of energy to keep up with this, don`t you? Come on, man. Really?

JOE: Well, this isn`t for the faint of heart. Certainly, if it`s about sex, there`s easier ways to go about it. The amount of commitment it takes is a lot. Yes. It can be exhausting at times.

PINSKY: Before I go to calls, let me ask this one last question of the ladies, which is, do jealousies ever erupt. Again, I feel like I`m an expert on your situation because I watch the show "Big Love," so I know exactly how the jealousies do kind of erupt.

Tell us if that`s an accurate reflection of what happens with you guys.

VICKI DARGER: Somewhat. You will never hear us say jealousies don`t happen, they do. We expected them and plan on them and have a ways we work through those things and part of our growth.

ALINA DARGER: We wouldn`t be human if we didn`t have jealousy, of course we do.

PINSKY: All right. So, we`re starting to get some calls here. Again, our phone number is 855-DRDREW5, OR 855-3737395.

And apparently on the phone now, we have a friend of the show, Flora Jessup. She was raised in an FLDS compound and she had polygamy -- you had polygamist parents, right?


PINSKY: You had polygamist parents, correct?


JESSOP: Yes, I did. My dad was married to my mom and her sister.

Being raised in a polygamist society, you were raised kind of as a calf in a stall and you believe if you don`t live the principle, then you`re damned to hell. Working with victims, the eyes are the truth tellers.

I have watched many interviews with the Dargers. The women do not appear to be all that happy to me.

PINSKY: OK. So, let`s ask that question. Ladies, is this happiness? Is this connubial bliss?

ALINA DARGER: Tat`s one person`s assessment. I don`t share the experience that she`s shared and I didn`t grow up in a closed society. I went to public school in a regular neighborhood. I knew what was out there. I had a free and willing choice to make it. And many of my siblings didn`t.

So, that`s not my experience.

PINSKY: So, did the three of you come from polygamist families?

VICKI DARGER: Yes. We were always within this culture, but in independent families. Not following any leader necessarily.

PINSKY: All right.

VALERIE DARGER: Our parents also gave us a choice and never forced us or told us that we weren`t going to go to heaven if we didn`t live this way. We have many siblings who have not chosen to live this way and still associate with the whole family and it`s still one big happy family.

JESSOP: But do you feel --

PINSKY: OK. Thank you, Flora, I will take some more calls.

Go ahead, Flora. Finish out.

JESSOP: Do you feel that you have to forsake your emotional well- beings in order to live the principle?

VALERIE DARGER: Hardly. That wouldn`t work out very well.

VICKI DARGER: We are very human and we embrace our emotions and we work with them.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s keep taking some calls here. Let`s take more calls, ladies.

Evelyn in Pennsylvania, go right ahead. What have you got for me?

EVELYN, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Dr. Drew, I cannot understand what are their sleeping arrangements?

PINSKY: All right. Give us that.

Is there one communal sleeping center or is there three different bedrooms that Joe visits? How does that work?

VALERIE DARGER: We each have our own master bedroom and Joe visits each bedroom on a rotation basis. It`s that simple.

PINSKY: Evelyn, are you still here?

VALERIE DARGER: Sleeping arrangements are separate.

EVELYN: What I don`t understand --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sleeping arrangements are separate.

EVELYN: -- made one wife for one guy, not 10 of them.

PINSKY: What do you guys say to those sorts of spiritual principles?

EVELYN: Personally, I think you`re all nuts.

ALINA DARGER: I think that`s -- that`s somebody`s belief structure and this is our belief structure. That`s how we feel and what we do and feel you should have the right to live yours and we should have the right as consenting adults to put our family together.

PINSKY: Joe in Florida. Joe, what do you got for us? Ask a question of the Dargers here. What do you got?



JOE: I want to ask the Darger family, have they noticed if their plural marriage has adversely affected their children`s lives in school, say, for instance?

PINSKY: Are the kids performing well academically?


PINSKY: Who`s going to answer that?

JOE DARGER: Is he asking academically? Certainly, our kids, we hope to even have on tonight, I think, can answer some of this better.

But they deal with the stigma that`s out there. There is a lot of persecution, both from teachers and from fellow students they have to deal with. So that`s a factor that is there.

And one of the reasons we speak out. We feel like in this kind of country, we should all be free. And whether they choose to follow our footsteps or not, they shouldn`t as some kind of a stigma.

PINSKY: Yes, Joe --

ALINA DARGER: We were raised in it and know what it was like growing up. And can help them and understand you.

PINSKY: I get you. I don`t want to be a part of that. I don`t want to bring the kids in and question them. I`m not sure I`m comfortable with that because they do have to I`m sure withstand a lot of stuff.

But I do have another call. Beth in Kansas, go right ahead.

BETH, CALLER FROM KANSAS: H, Dr. Drew. I`m wondering if they actively encourage their kids to live the same lifestyle.

PINSKY: Do you? Do you feel, let`s say actively or even subtly, are you endorsing this? What do you guys think?

VICKI DARGER: We teach them it`s our belief. They absolutely know they have their freedom to choose and that we will love them and support them. Some have already chose different paths and still our children and we love them, dearly.

PINSKY: Joe, I`m sorry. I will interrupt because I`m running out of time. Do any of them resent this or rebelling against it ands resenting the situation they`re in?

VICKI DARGER: I think some of them go through phases where they have, but doesn`t mean they always do. It`s a typical teenager thing really. I mean, how many teenagers rebel against their parents` religion. It`s kind of a normal thing.

ALINA DARGER: And it`s strange enough as a teen and then to have this strange situation, they have to deal with that. And they have to learn it and come through it and decide what they want. But in the end, I think they end up proud of who they are. We have a great family and we love -- we all love each other.

VICKI DARGER: So far, they`re proud of us.

PINSKY: So far, they`re proud of you. I appreciate that honesty. And I think we`ll wrap it up with that. I really appreciate you guys coming in and talking about this. It is an interesting situation.

Joe, I don`t know how you do it. I don`t know how you afford three master bedrooms. I understand how you feed 24 kids. I don`t understand how you have the stamina to -- you know what I`m saying? I`m just saying.

So, ladies and gentleman, thank you. And hopefully we can talk to you some more. Thank you for the callers as well.

Again, our number is 855-3737395.

Now, we`ve talked to you about unconventional parenting and family situations. Next, you can`t have missed what`s going in the press, right? You`ve seen these horrible stories that are out there. I`m going to visit them after the break and we`re going to look and -- I want your calls on this -- why don`t we do something about this?

We have parents that aren`t fit to be parents. We have people that have very serious issues. And believe me, the kids being acted out upon by these people are the next generation of prisoners, trouble, and problems and it will be the kids who we`re crying for today is one of the major conundrums in our society. And these stories aren`t for the faint of heart.

Again, call in 855-3737395 to discuss this, after the break.


PINSKY: Welcome back. Thank you for joining me. And a reminder, we are taking your calls live.

Now, here`s a recent story that made you all and me, too, really angry -- bad parenting, abuse at its worst. This woman right here, let`s see her up there.

Come on, there she is on the full screen, I though she`s going to come up, yes. She is a -- there she is.

She is a teen mom apparently, Jodi Rock. She`s charged with burning her 13-month-old son. The details are just truly too much to be believed. She allegedly burned his genitals with a hot flat iron hair straightener.

HLN has asked her attorney for an response. Calls were not immediately returned.

I don`t know what to say about this. We`re watching our viewers react to this outrageous situation and several other stories in the news recently that made my stomach turn along these same lines.

This girl looks not well obviously. We can talk to you if you have questions about what I think might have gone on here.

There`s sort of a bigger picture here, it`s not the only -- I mean, how many stories do we have to report about parents not doing their job or snickering on a 911 line or parents actually actively harming their kids. That`s kind of what I want to get into with you guys. So, we`ll be taking your calls.

Belinda in Florida, what have you got for me?


PINSKY: Hi, Belinda.

BELINDA: Jodie Rock was given a blessing and she doesn`t know what to do with it. You know how many people want to have babies and can`t conceive. She should not have any chance of conceiving any more children and should be sterilized.

PINSKY: Oh, boy. Which camera am I here? This one or this one? Oh, this one. There she is, there`s Belinda.

Belinda, are you having difficulty with fertility yourself?

BELINDA: No. I have four beautiful children of my own. I was a teenage parent, as Jodi was. I couldn`t fathom doing anything like that to any of my children.

PINSKY: It`s just too much. But you`re going all the way to the mat with this, saying sterilize people that misbehave --

BELINDA: This baby didn`t ask to come into the world. If you`re not going to take care of it, what`s the point?

PINSKY: Here`s what I`m saying, and this is going to be my opinion. We need to encourage adoption for people not prepared to be parents. We do not encourage that enough. I was involved with a show "16 and Pregnant" and "Teen Mom" where adoption was really highlighted. We should encourage kids in a bad situation to get the kids to parents, to people, to adults ready to be parents.

Thank you for your call.

Shalanda from North Carolina, what have you got?


PINSKY: Thank you, Shalanda.

SHALANDA: Thank you for having me on your show.

PINSKY: It`s my pleasure.

SHALANDA: Some needs -- me personally, I feel like someone needs to beat the hell out of her. I am so sick and tired of these supposed parents doing this.


SHALANDA: Someone needs to give her what she deserves and make an example out of her. I know this will never happen, but, of course, she`s going to get a lawyer and --

PINSKY: Shalanda, both you guys are going all the way to a primitive solution, which is sterilization, and Hammurabi`s law, which an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Put this woman`s picture back up here. Just take a look at this. Put it up, come on, let`s go. There we go.

That girl looks like one of my patients, frankly. She looks like a drug addict. I`m looking at a picture and don`t know her or anything about her and I don`t mean to disdain somebody. I wouldn`t call disdaining somebody frankly. To me, it gives me a certain amount of compassion or at least a way of explaining what went on here.

But in state of being altered, whether it`s opiates or methamphetamine, whatever it might be, these people should not be around their kids, they should not be around their kids because horrible things happen either at their hands or as a result of negligence or as the result of the people around them.

Next call, Trista in Alabama, what have you got for me?


PINSKY: Hi, Trista.

TRISTA: How are you?

PINSKY: I`m good. Thank you for calling.

TRISTA: Thank you. My thought is I feel for this child right now. I mean, it`s just ridiculous how these young mothers claim that they want to have baby and next thing you know, boom, you`re having a baby and they`re doing it. It`s ridiculous.

PINSKY: Yes, how old are you, Trista?

TRISTA: I`m 27 and I have no kids.

PINSKY: Twenty-seven. And you see -- do you understand what goes on in some of these young women`s minds where it`s supposed to solve their problems?

TRISTA: Yes, and I think it`s probably because of an illness or something.

PINSKY: I saw online, somebody said, are there toxins that they`re consuming that are making all these parents behave this way? Yes, the toxins are drugs and alcohol, I got news for you. And the inciting event is abuse and childhood. So, we`re keeping it going, we`re keeping it going. We`re creating another generation of people that are going to maintain this if we don`t get to the bottom of it.

But you`re right. People are abused and feel empty and kids will love them and it`s going to solve all their problems, isn`t that what you think what it is?

TRISTA: Yes. I think what it is. That`s the truth.

PINSKY: Thanks for the call.

I got just a few. Jennifer in Michigan, can you spit out what you want to say in 10 seconds or I`ll get to you after the break?

JENNIFER, CALLER MICHIGAN: I want to say that lady`s crazy and they need to drug test everybody on welfare, because this way, if they come out positive, you take them kids from them.

PINSKY: OK, hang on. We`re getting kind of political here.

More of parents gone bad and I`ve got a psychologist to weigh in. Of course, I want you to call us at 855-DRDREWT. That is also 373-7395, or go to 855.

More of this, heavy stuff after the break.


PINSKY: We`re back and taking your calls.

I want to follow up an answer on Jennifer`s call before the break, said that people on welfare should be drug tested. And so just people on welfare or people on food stamps?

Immediately you see -- first of all, it becomes political and you`re discriminating against a certain population and those of you who are on welfare and food stamps should be angry. I don`t think singling certain groups out it`s not necessarily the answer. But you see, it gets complicated fast.

And, of course, as I said, we`re seeing a rash of stories about child abuse and I`m trying to make sense of it tonight.

This couple here, these people, I think Stephanie Broten, if I pronounce then name right, and her live-in boyfriend, Darnell Landrum, allegedly shaved their daughter`s head and forced her to wear a diaper in public for getting bad grades in school and I think they`re doing some sort of ridiculous punishment, it`s just awful.

They have been charged with malicious punishment. Again, this is tonight not unusual we`re hearing these stories. I`ve got to tell you, in my line of business, dealing with people that develop addiction, you hear stories like this all the time. It`s overwhelming.

Joining me via Skype to discuss this is psychologist, Michelle Golland.

Michelle, when you hear stories like this, I know you and I have talked about this before. I know you agree it`s not uncommon. But how do we help people watching the show tonight make sense of this and what can be done with it?

MICHELLE GOLLAND, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I have to tell you as a parenting expert and clinical psychologist, Dr. Drew, I feel very passionately that actually my role is very political.

I`m going to go back to that first story about the teen pregnancy. I don`t even want to start with adoption and trying to get teen moms who are already struggling to make that sort of life-changing decision. What needs to happen is we need to deal with teen pregnancy in our country, OK? We need to start there.

PINSKY: Michelle, Michelle --

GOLLAND: It has to happen --


PINSKY: Michelle, whoa, whoa, Michelle. We are -- Michelle won`t stop.

Can you hear me? OK.

Michele, we are at the lowest teen pregnancy rate since 1948. We are doing things. There`s been a rapid and progressive decline.

GOLLAND: Dr. Drew, but we`re near Nigeria.

PINSKY: We are not doing great relative to other industrialized nations. All right. Fair enough.

GOLLAND: That`s great? That doesn`t mean anything in the scale of what teen pregnancy is, Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: All right, fair enough.

GOLLAND: -- in our country.

PINSKY: Fair enough.

GOLLAND: We do horribly. We are in the same place as third world countries for teen pregnancy. That`s nothing to be proud of.

PINSKY: I`m with you. I`m with you.

Are there other solution, again, evacuating on behalf -- -- advocating on behalf -- let me stop. I`m going to take a quick call.

GOLLAND: I think that`s a huge solution.

PINSKY: I agree with you.

Patricia in California, go ahead rea quick, Pat.

PATRICIA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Dr. Drew, back to the first story, although the child is definitely the victim in this, the mother does definitely need heavy duty therapy. I do believe in my heart that she be considered a sex offender.


PATRICIA: And she should register.


PATRICIA: And she should be on option for sterilization, because I don`t believe that somebody that does a crime against a child in that way should be allowed to reproduce.

PINSKY: OK. Pat, thank you.

Michelle, I`ve got about 15 seconds. What do you want to do with that?

GOLLAND: Well, I think we do really need to look at these issues as preventive problems that we`re not -- we`re not addressing them appropriately in our society. And to me, that starts with politics, that starts with how we educate parents, you know, and in schools and dealing with teen pregnancy would solve a lot of these issues.

PINSKY: Michelle, thank you. I`m with you. I`ve got two seconds. I`ve got to get out of here. We`ll be back with more calls.



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Coming up, sex toys, do you have any? It`s a multibillion industry and growing everyday. A reason spike in sales is "Real Housewife" Kandi Burruss responsible. She has a new product line. Kandi and her mom are here to answer your questions. What you want to know?


PINSKY (on-camera): All right. First of all here, I want to point out that we have reached out to Stephanie Bertina (ph) and Darnell Landram`s (ph) attorney was that last story we just told you about the woman -- the girl whose head was shaved. Let me get other example of, I`m going to call it abuse. Of course, it is.

We`ve reached out to their attorneys for comments. We`ve had received no calls back yet. So, we`re going to all take a deep breath right now, and we are going to take a sharp turn, sharp right turn maybe. Get this. According to a recent survey, wow, this is a sharp transition, but I`m going to try to make it.

Fifty percent of Americans use vibrators. Seventy percent of the men say they have no problem with their partner using them. Sales of these devices have never been better. Sex toys are a billion dollar industry.

Joining me to discuss this, my "Loveline" co-host, Simone Bienne. And Simone, is this a good thing that these things are becoming more common place or is that pulling people apart from one another or just people are more liberated with all this and it`s a good thing?


PINSKY: OK. So, I knew you`d say that.

BIENNE: I know. You know me so well. It is a very good thing and it`s very positive. What we need to understand is that vibrator and sex toys should be the snack rather than the main course. It can never replace the fabulousness of a man and the fullness of that sexual experience. Why vibrators are really good for women is it means that they can pleasure themselves.

They can get to know the physicality of their body really quickly without any kind of time pressure, because a lot of the time, women will feel guilty that their partners are spending so much time helping them achieved orgasm. And as a result, they can feel under pressure. So, this can be really good for women to enjoy sexuality.

Plus, if she`s single, it means she`s not going out there and doing something that isn`t good for her soul, she`s doing it in her bedroom with her little buzzing friend.

PINSKY: Thank goodness Simone has that lovely British accent, because God knows she can make cow ply taste like cream (INAUDIBLE). But be that as it may, let`s go to a quick call. I`ve got Hillary in Massachusetts. What do you got, Hillary?


PINSKY: Hi, Hillary.

HILLARY: Tank you for having me. I`m calling from Emory (ph) Massachusetts.

PINSKY: Oh, my God! I went to college there.

HILLARY: I know. I go to college there.

PINSKY: Oh, my God! What`s going on?

HILLARY: Well, I just wanted to say, first of all, that my mom thinks you`re hot. And second of all, I wanted to say that I think women are using sex toys more because they`re more available. Like, you can have them discreetly sent to your house.

And also, like men, nowadays, come with diseases and drama and demands and, you know, if you have these sex toys -- in morning or cheat on you. So, more convenient.

PINSKY: Wow! That is quite an indictment of the American male, I must tell you. They come with cheating and they are --

BIENNE: Diseases.

PINSKY: They come with diseases.


PINSKY: My son -- I don`t want to talk about, but my kids are in college right now, so you`re freaking me out a little bit. But be that as it may, it gives me a new idea for something I do want to address here maybe tomorrow or the next day about what men come with and diseases and things.

But I think that`s kind of sad, though, that people are not able to relate the way they used to, that they`re sort of casualness of sexuality, sort of the hooking up culture has actually torn people apart.

BIENNE: Yes. It`s sad, because you can`t bond with a piece of plastic. Nothing is going to be -- there`s nothing intimate about --

PINSKY: Hold on. Slow down. You can`t bond with a piece of plastic.

BIENNE: You can`t.


BIENNE: I mean, she can but most women can`t. And, it`s not good to do. It`s not good to overuse them. It`s not good to rely on it so much.

PINSKY: OK. So, I want to go now to "Real Housewives of Atlanta" star, Kandi Burruss, who has a line of these devices. She joins us. Hi, Kandi. And listen, thank you for joining us.


PINSKY: And, not only that I want to introduce you, and this is the most intriguing part about having you tonight. we welcome your mom, Joyce, as well. There she is. Mom, how are those conversations go down? Please. My heart goes out to you, mommy.

BURRUSS: My mom and I always, you know, we`ve always had a very open relationship when it comes to talking about sex. And, I think that most daughters and mothers should have that conversation so that, you know, your daughters won`t learn these things in the street. She`s going to learn them from her mom, and who`s going to tell her best besides her mother.

PINSKY: Now as I said, we -- you`ve now designed or you`re involved in this business. Is there something that compelled you into it? Right? Am I right? That`s correct?

BURRUSS: Yes. I actually started out by having an online talk show where we talk openly about sex and relationships. And from there, I kind of got an idea of the things that people like over the past two years. And so, I don`t know. It just hit me one day.

I was like, I think I want to try to have my own toys. And. It just started out as an idea that I thought would be fun and grown into something much bigger.

PINSKY: And mom, you`re cool with this?

JOYCE JONES, KANDI`S MOTHER: Yes. I think it`s a great idea, because there`s so many women, especially women my age that don`t have partners. And, not that that can -- like she says, I don`t think that can substitute having a partner, but some of the things, so many -- as one of your callers said, there`s so many diseases that they have out there now, especially for older women.

If you would check the AIDS statistics, it`s more between the ages of 30 and 50 than it is as much as it is for younger women, because older men don`t feel like they should use condoms.

PINSKY: I swear to goodness --

JONES: So, I feel like, you know -- so, I feel like this is something that -- if you have an older man, if he`s not able to really make things happen, well, then, he and his wife can enjoy -- you know, he can help his wife. You know, because the women feel the same at 30 -- 60 as she does at 30. I mean, her feelings don`t go away.

PINSKY: No, they certainly don`t. And I must say, Kandi is laughing a little bit. But I can talk to you all day, Joyce. I can talk to you all day long. Kandi, (INAUDIBLE) anymore. I want to talk to Joyce. Before we go, let`s take some calls. I mean, that`s what I`m trying to, you know, get connected with our viewers through the phone. Here we go. Melanie in Florida, what do you got?


PINSKY: Hi, Melanie.

MELANIE: Well, I`m single and I think sex toys are great. My favorite is definitely the rabbit which has made famous by a good episode of "Sex and the City."

PINSKY: Right.

MELANIE: But I don`t like (ph) what everyone is saying, you know, I could be going out and having sex with a bunch of random guys, maybe getting pregnant, getting an STD, but this is just a much safer and healthier way.

PINSKY: Melanie, I got to say, I did not expect these dots to connect, but we were talking about teen pregnancy earlier, and you`re making the case that, perhaps -- I`m not ready to make that case, but I appreciate your point, and I thank you for call. Simone, you have anything to say about this conversation, so far?

BIENNE: Yes. I really think that, actually, it would be quite useful if you`re in your late teens to get a vibrator, because you`re still having the hormones.

PINSKY: Now, my caller (ph) is going to start calling. They`ll be angry with you. Not my daughter.

BIENNE: It`s natural, and it happens. And, we all know that guys do and women, of course, you know, have this wonderful physical things. Don`t get me started on -- may I say the word-I`m going to say the word.


PINSKY: No, no. Not so good.

BURRUSS: I feel like you definitely --


BURRUSS: I feel like you -- my feelings are that you should know your own body. So, I think that, you know, you should explore yourself and, you know, kind of know what makes you, you know, tick.

BIENNE: Exactly.

BURRUSS: I feel like, you know, toys are a way, you know, to be to explore your body in a way that you can, you know, find out things that you can share with your partner if you are in a relationship or if it makes it better for you, you know?

PINSKY: And Kandi, has your line been successful?

BURRUSS: Extremely.


BURRUSS: When I first decided to do Bedroom Candy, I just didn`t know what the reaction was going to be, because I know sometimes, you know, people have this idea of toys and try to make them seem dirty, which I never want women to feel like it`s dirty to have a toy.

So, that`s why we made a lot of products that, you know, are very discreet, that you probably wouldn`t even know what it was if you walked up on it. And me, being a single mom, you know, I don`t want my daughter to walk in the room and just so happen to see it and know what it is.

So, I thought, you know, this will be a great way so that, you know, we can have these products, you know, know how to enjoy ourselves, and at the same time, you don`t have to feel dirty about it. It still looks classy, it`s clean, it`s nothing bad about it.


BURRUSS: And I just wanted to take away that bad stigma that people give to toys.

PINSKY: All right. Diana from Florida, you have a comment for us or question?

DIANA, FLORIDA: Yes, actually, I do. I don`t want to take away from the fact that you want to go ahead as a woman be able to go ahead and please yourself. But, I think we`re losing the point of it all. What it comes down to is a woman -- I mean, you`re losing a point. Why won`t you wait for a man?

Why won`t you wait for that man to please you? Quite honestly, I don`t want anything that has anything to do with a warranty to do with any part of my body.


DIANA: I would rather have a man please you if you`re sitting there and just pleasing yourself at home, you`re taking away the point off actually having that relationship connect.


PINSKY: Yes. We get you. You`re talking about intimacy. Losing intimacy. Kandi wants to comment. Go ahead.

BURRUSS: Yes, I want to comment, because I think a lot of people think that we want to replace men with toys. That`s not really the point. A lot of people don`t even know that there are a lot of toys that, you know, benefit the relationship. There are toys that you can, you know, use when you`re with your partner.

So, you know, you can`t use all toys by yourself. Some of them you actually need your partner to use the toys. And then, a lot of women do not have orgasms from sex, unfortunately. So, it`s okay to have a little extra help in the bedroom. There`s nothing wrong with that.

BIENNE: And interestingly, Kandi and Dr. Drew, Dr. Drew and I have spoken about this. Men can actually feel like the pressure is taken away from them by having a toy in the bedroom, and they enjoy using it as part of their sexual repertoire with their partner. So, it can be part of the act.

But I like what your callers said before, it`s much better to be with a man rather than just be with something with batteries.

PINSKY: One last call quickly, Irma in California. Irma, go ahead.

IRMA, CALIFORNIA: Yes. My question is, how can I persuade my boyfriend like to experiment with a vibrator or something because he thinks I want to replace him or I don`t want him to get jealous.

PINSKY: Right. I`ll tell you what, Irma -- Simone is actually clinically trained in psychosexual therapy. I hear from men all the time that they feel threatened by these devices. So, I`m going to have Simone answer that question, and then, we`re going to go out to break. Go ahead, Simone.

BIENNE: You said as part of your sexual repertoire and make sure he is involved in pleasuring you. So, you use it together. And often, if a man sees how he can be in control of it and use that to pleasure you, he will be delighted, because the last thing we want is for our partners to feel threatened.

And also, the other thing, and I don`t want to get too graphic here, but look at the size as well. Don`t get anything that could be too intimidating because something like Kandi`s product that are pretty and nice and your guy can say, oh, this is girly, what fun.

PINSKY: OK. And Kandi, thank you for joining us. Joyce, thank to you. I`m your mom`s biggest fan now, Joyce. Thank you for being so --


PINSKY: -- no, really interesting point of view and an important one. The population is entering, you know, the -- you`re not alone, Joyce. There are lots of women your age that are possibly looking for these sorts of solutions. And Simone, as always, we`ll see you tonight on "Loveline." Thank you for joining me.

When we come back, it is your turn to ask me anything. I don`t know if there`s stuff left over from those earlier conversations about the parenting issues and abusive children, a medical problem, psychiatric problems, whatever you want to talk about, addiction, we will take it. The phone number, 855-Dr.Drew5 or 373-7395. Stay right there. More calls after this.


PINSKY: Back and taking your calls at 855-Dr.Drew5. Let`s get right to it. Elaine in Alabama. Elaine, go to it.


PINSKY: Hi, Elaine.

ELAINE: I have lived with bipolar disorder for over 20 years. I just want to ask you, what are your thoughts maybe on the best way to fight stigma about mental illness --

PINSKY: By being the lovely person that you, in fact, are and talking about at the media the way we`re doing today. I mean, people just -- they get scared of it. I think the fear is fundamentally was behind the stigma these days, well, probably always been that way.

Remember, historically, the way people thought about these things, you were possessed and they would be -- they burned you at the stake and things. People were afraid of this. Yes, right? And so, now, we know it`s a brain issue. It`s an imbalance. It`s fairly (ph) common. It`s easily treated many times.

So, I would just say thank you for bringing it up, and let`s hope we reduced stigma a little bit today by just talking about it, OK?

ELAINE: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Thanks, Elaine. Amanda in Canada, what do you got?


PINSKY: Hey, Amanda.

AMANDA: Hi. I have a question about how to approach telling children. I have two kids, and they have a genetic condition, which is relatively serious. It can be fatal. And I was wondering, how I should --

PINSKY: What do you have? What do they have?

AMANDA: My children and as well as I have Marfan syndrome.

PINSKY: OK. So, -- yes. So, Marfan syndrome, for those of you that care to know, is a syndrome -- it`s a genetic disorder, as Amanda says. And, the identifying features are usually tall, thin with long digits and associated with some vascular problems. Some people believe that Abraham Lincoln may have had Marfan syndrome. Did you know that?

AMANDA: I did know. Yes.

PINSKY: And in fact, some of the photograph by Brady with him, you see his leg is sort of blurred and some people believe that he may have had aortic valve disease and it was making -- it was pumping so hard with the distorted aortic function that it was making his leg actually move that he could never hold it still for those pictures and making it blur.

AMANDA: I didn`t know that.

PINSKY: Isn`t that interesting? Now, -- so, the big problem with, and of course, is the vascular valve issues. Have you talked -- is that what you want to talk to them about or --

AMANDA: Yes. Like, they don`t even know. They`re quite young. They don`t even know that they have Marfan syndrome.

PINSKY: Yes. Amanda would wait until they`re well into their adolescence, when they`re taking biology courses, and you could say, look, some people are taller, some smaller, some people have other disorders in their family system. And ours, we have this one. Here is the risk, and we`re going to stay on top of those risks to make sure it never means anything to you or your health.

AMANDA: Like they have a lot of doctors` appointments. You know, like, they are aware that they have something.

PINSKY: OK. I would say is just I share it and it`s going to be fine. Reassure them. Reassure them. That`s the important thing. Quickly, Brooke in Indiana. Brooke, what do you got for me?


PINSKY: Brooke.

BROOKE: My mom has fibromyalgia and neuropathy that`s not alcohol related.


BROOKE: And I was wondering what the correct combination for pain management might be.

PINSKY: Brooke, you know, you`re really seriously asking me a question with -- how much time do I -- yes, 30 seconds left that would really is so complicated for me to give you a reasonable answer. We`d have to sit down and talk about the details of her case for an hour at least.

Let`s just say fibromyalgia is probably a series of different conditions. The pain management issues are very complex. I believe -- leave you one little caveat. I believe that sleep is a major issue in fibromyalgia patients. And if you can work on restoring her sleep, you may do a lot in terms of controlling her pain.

We have more calls, 855-373-7395. Any topic. Nothing taboo. More after the break.


PINSKY: Back and taking your calls. I`m going right out to Matt in Pennsylvania. Go ahead, Matt.

MATT, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. My girlfriend feels extremely guilty when she`s using sex toys either alone or when we`re together. Is that a normal situation?

PINSKY: It`s not uncommon for people, yes, to feel -- have received messages that if they do anything that`s other than vanilla, that there might be something wrong with them or, you know, they doubt their own chastity when things like that come into question. So, I think by reassuring her and recognizing that this is something, you know, you don`t feel bad about it.

Sometimes, they feel like they`re leaving their partner out or disconnecting with their partner. You got to make sure you`re deeply connecting with her at all time, particularly, when you`re physically intimate. I mean, that`s really what this is all about, is able to have a fusion and intimacy and then be able to be to separate and whole people.

So, reassure her and I think something that probably just will pass. Susan, Canada, what do you got, Susan?

SUSAN, CANADA: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Susan.

SUSAN: My question is regarding bulimia.

PINSKY: Oh, yes.

SUSAN: Is it possible, would you say, for someone to deal with this issue on their own? And also, can an anti-depressant such as Prozac be effective for treatment?

PINSKY: Well, Prozac was -- back in the day when first Prozac came out, it was highly touted for bulimia, in fact. If somebody -- lot of bulimics get high when they purge. They actually euphoria.

So, when you use a medication called Naltrexone, which actually blocks the opiate receptors in the brains, they don`t get high from it, would help decrease some of the, obviously, the secondary gain of the purging aspects. But here`s the thing about that is that bulimia, bona fide bulimia is so dangerous.

Bulimia more than anorexia really is dangerous. People actually tend to gain weight when they`re bulimic more than lose, and they have tremendous medical complications. So, it would be irresponsible of me to suggest that you should ever try to deal with that alone without at least a professional evaluation.

Kyle in California. Kyle, what do you got for me?

KYLE, CALIFORNIA: Hello, sir. I`m calling you about my girlfriend have --

PINSKY: Uh-oh. Did I lose him? Let`s go to the next call. Sorry, Kyle. I lost you there, buddy. Alyssa, Alyssa also in Massachusetts. What do you got, Alyssa?

ALYSSA, MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Dr. Drew. So, today, I was worried someone from my class who sexually harassed me twice on the school bus, and now, I`m afraid that he will come after me and hurt me, and I don`t know what to do.

PINSKY: Alyssa, Alyssa, Alyssa, I am so sorry that you, first of all, had to suffer through this. Let me ask this, and this is going to sound -- this is not meant to be non-empathetic, but were you abused at any other time in your life? Was this a pattern for you?

ALYSSA: Yes. I have been physically and mentally and emotionally (ph) abused by my father.

PINSKY: OK. So, when someone who`s had abuse, somehow victimizers see that. They just know you`re going to be a good victim for them. And once you`ve been victimized, it`s hard to come to your own defense. And this is what I`m going to ask you to do, Alyssa. You probably not been able to do this in your life.

Your dad of all things, and we started this show talking about parents who, I`m sorry, they just -- they let us down in the most sacred of jobs, and your dad did that and I`m sorry. But please, come to your own defense. Go out there, report it if you have to, get support from the school, get what you need to feel safe.

And this guy, listen, he can`t get you if people are all around you caring about you and important people with authority are keeping an eye on you. Don`t let that happen.

Thank you all for watching tonight. I appreciate your calls. It`s been a very interesting journey tonight. We will be here every night at 855-DrDrew5. That`s our phone number. I want to thank you for watching tonight, and I will see you next time.