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Jane Velez-Mitchell
New Info Released in Trayvon Martin Case
Aired May 17, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City.
Major breaking news. New photos of George Zimmerman just released moments ago show his injuries, and Trayvon Martin`s autopsy, just released, shows drugs in his system. Evidence released, again, just moments ago. We are analyzing it as we speak. We have a panel of experts. It`s all coming out right now. We`re breaking it down for you.
What does it mean for the case against that man, George Zimmerman?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, new secrets revealed about the family of missing Isabel Celis that raise questions about what was going on in their home and for how long? We`re now learning Child Protective Services visited the family`s home before the 6-year-old vanished. The question: why? This on the heels of authorities banning Isabel`s dad from having any contact from her two older brothers. We`re on the ground in Tucson investigating and taking your calls.
And the leaks of evidence in the Trayvon Martin case keep on coming. Now we have information about how far away George Zimmerman was when he shot Trayvon. This as Zimmerman`s defense team is accused of leaking critically important information.
Meantime, more criticism of the Sanford Police Department`s handling of his whole case. We`re taking your calls.
And these sneakers weren`t just made for walking. Find out how the man behind these kicks is kick-starting a whole new trend in recycling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, we had some break-ins in my neighborhood of a real suspicious kind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he say him dead. He`s laying on the ground.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Zimmerman had a prescription for two drugs, Temazepam and Adderall.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Adderall can change your vision. It can change how you perceive things. It can make you angrier and more aggressive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Martin`s autopsy showed that he had injuries on his knuckles when he died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The medical examiner found only two injuries on 17-year-old Trayvon Martin`s body. His fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON: Our son was not committing any crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice! No peace! No justice! No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice! No peace! No justice! No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice! No peace! No justice! No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something in George Zimmerman`s mind made him get out of the gun with a 9 millimeter gun and go after a kid who, by his own words, George Zimmerman`s own words, was running away from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news. Mountains of evidence just released to the public minutes ago as the Trayvon Martin case gets its first big document dump. New secrets pouring out from Trayvon Martin`s autopsy and from the police investigation.
Here`s the biggest news. We just got these in. You`re looking at photos just released moments ago of George Zimmerman, and he is bloodied. There his nose, you can see the cut on his nose. Of course, his medical report says the nose was broken.
All this coming on the heels of his medical report. His family doctor had reported he had sustained a broken nose and black eyes, lacerations on the back of his head. We don`t see black eyes, but they do take a day or so to develop. But there are his new photos. OK?
We had been wondering if there were going to be X-rays proving a broken nose or not, but now we have this photo. This is brand-new, just released. You see the cut there on his nose. Is that a broken nose? Is this substantial injury? If so, how is it going to affect the case?
Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
And right now, let`s get reaction to this breaking news from our expert panel. First, I want to go to Jon Lieberman and get these photos in context because there`s a timeline here. Tell us.
JON LIEBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, there is, and nothing can be looked at just in a vacuum.
I do want to tell you that there was only one photo of George Zimmerman taken at the actual scene. That was taken by a police officer`s iPhone, and he actually snapped it there. Those photos you were just looking at were Zimmerman`s other injuries, the broken nose, the bloodied back of the head. Those were taken when he got back to the station.
And I want to tell you, really, what`s significant in here, too, in terms of there was definitely a fight here, and this is the first time that we have seen evidence of a real fight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Michelle Suskauer, criminal defense attorney out of the Naples, Florida. You and I and the rest of our panel looking at these for the first time. What does it say, vis-a-vis the case against George Zimmerman?
MICHELLE SUSKAUER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think these are very, very helpful photos for George Zimmerman. And if you add those along with the autopsy results, I think this really helps his self-defense claim.
I mean, the claim about the back of his head -- remember, Jane, we looked at the videotape from the police station. You couldn`t really see any of that, because he was really cleaned up. All of the blood, the fact that he had two -- that he had a broken nose, two black eyes, there was absolutely a fight here.
This is going to be very helpful. I`m sure the defense is very happy with this information.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And we`re going to talk about two other big pieces of news in a moment out of the document dump, but first to Marc Lamont Hill, professor, Columbia University, host of "Our World with Black Enterprise" out of Philadelphia.
You`re looking at these photos, as well. What do they say to you, Marc?
MARC LAMONT HILL, PROFESSOR: Well, there`s obviously evidence of some sort of struggle, but they don`t say to me anything exculpatory. There`s nothing here that makes me think -- there`s nothing here to refute the idea that George Zimmerman still initiated an altercation and still used unnecessary force.
You know, the idea that Trayvon Martin may had THC in his system, the idea that he may have had marijuana in his system, is not evidence that he was an aggressor. In fact, there`s no evidence, medically, that marijuana makes someone more aggressive.
The idea that George Zimmerman had a cut on his nose right here doesn`t necessarily mean that his nose was broken. We need some conclusive evidence that his nose was even broken.
But again, even if all of it is true, even if he really had bleeding, even if he really had a broken nose, although there was no evidence of that on the camera we saw a few weeks ago, even if all that`s true, it doesn`t mean that George Zimmerman didn`t use unnecessary force. It doesn`t mean that he`s not guilty of second-degree murder. Let`s not jump to conclusions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, author "Swagger" at the Bloom firm. You`re looking at these photos, as we all are for the first time. But look at that cut.
Now, I had asked whether a medical report had come out showing that he had a broken nose, according to his family doctor. My first question: are there X-rays? Because a lot of people said, "Hey, you know, you`re friends with your family doctor. You could hypothetically get your family doctor to say just about anything if you`re in a pinch perhaps," but now we`re seeing these photographs. Does it change the equation?
LISA BLOOM, AUTHOR/ATTORNEY: Well, I want to connect this all up. So we have a Mark on Trayvon`s left knuckle, and we have a Mark on Zimmerman`s nose. Does that mean that Trayvon punched him in the nose? Was Trayvon left or right-handed is the question that I have, because otherwise, a left-handed injury could be defensive or offensive, depending on whether he`s left- or right-handed.
Clearly there was a scuffle. We don`t know who initiated it. We don`t know who escalated it. We don`t know who threatened who.
So this is clearly some important element of evidence, but it`s only a piece of the story. All right. Let`s go out to the phone lines.
Sheila, Illinois, your question or thought -- Sheila.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. And I`m proud to talk to you tonight. I`ve used marijuana for years, and it`s never made me aggressive. It`s never made me agitated.
I have a problem with the -- with the fact that they`re wanting to say that -- that Trayvon is -- you know, was agitated because of some marijuana in his system.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
CALLER: And furthermore, the -- you know, I can`t -- I can`t say that there wasn`t or was a fight. Clearly, there was something that happened, but does that mean that Trayvon still had to die because he -- because, you know...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re raising some excellent points and let me update our viewers. The other huge piece of news that just broke. Trayvon Martin`s body tested positive to the drug THC, meaning that he had marijuana in his system the night he was shot.
Now, does that change the context of shooter George Zimmerman`s comments in his now-infamous 911 call. Here are some key moments from that call. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZIMMERMAN: These (EXPLETIVE DELETED), they always get away. This guy looks like he`s up to no good or he`s on drugs or something. Something`s wrong with him. Yes, he`s coming to check me out. He`s got something in his hands. I don`t know what his deal is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you following him?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We don`t need you to do that.
ZIMMERMAN: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Remember, George Zimmerman, the shooter possibly also had drugs in his system. He reportedly had prescriptions for Adderall and Temazepam, also known as Restoril. Adderall used for hyperactivity, Temazepam for insomnia. They are powerful, mood-altering drugs.
Now, we don`t know for sure if he was on those drugs, even though he had a prescription, because the cops failed to give George Zimmerman a drug test that night.
And here`s what Trayvon had in his system, according to the autopsy report that we`ve been studying: 1.5 nanograms of THC, which is an ingredient in marijuana, and 7.3 nanograms of another THC substance, both found in his blood and traces of cannabis also found in his urine.
So I want to go out to Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of The Hills Treatment Center. I`m sure that sounds like gobbledygook to a lot of our viewers -- nanograms and what have you -- but what do you take from this report, the autopsy report, saying he had this THC, which is a component of marijuana, in his system?
HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER/CEO, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER (via phone): Well, Jane, first of all, you know, when you come back positive for THC all that means in some cases that you`ve used it within the last 30 to 90 days. OK?
Now it gets a little complicated, because THC usually lodges in the fat cells of the body. Now, you know, the usual THC levels that, if somebody comes back with 300 or higher, usually that means they`ve smoked marijuana in the last two or three days. So, you know, it`s difficult to sort of pinpoint whether or not he was high on that night.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this -- let me say this. We`ve done an analysis of these nanograms and, according to studying what is legal or over the limit in terms of nanograms of THC in various states, the conclusion, at least from some experts -- and it`s debatable, certainly -- is that Trayvon`s THC blood level is right around the limit of what states consider impaired for driving. It`s above the limit in some states, below the limit in some other states.
So I want to go to Mark Nejame, criminal defense attorney and HLN contributor. You`ve been hearing all of this new information come in. What are your thoughts, Mark?
MARK NEJAME, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that the points that are being made are the points that need to be discussed more fully.
The issue is -- is not because he was aggressive, smoking marijuana. Of course, marijuana does not make you aggressive. The issue is was he acting high? Was he acting in such a way that he was impaired, which would be consistent with Zimmerman`s comments? And we really don`t know that right now. Remember, we just have a M.E. report, a medical examiner`s report. We don`t have a toxicology report.
We know that we have a lean young man, Trayvon, who was -- who was -- didn`t have a lot of fat cells on him. We don`t know if he was high at the time. We didn`t know if he had smoked marijuana at some point previous. But the possibility exists, and of course, that needs to be gotten into.
And now what we`ve also seen, and we`re showing some of the pictures at this time, we know that there was mutual conduct. I`ve been saying that for a while from all the witnesses that we`ve been talking to, working on, putting this thing together.
There was clearly a struggle that was more than a minor altercation. It seemed to be a fight that was obviously to the death. And what happens here is when there was an altercation, a gun was seen or a gun was felt. And then there was a grappling apparently over it, and somebody ended up dead. Sadly, Trayvon Martin ended up dead.
But the fact of the matter is we know from the cut on the knuckle, we know from the broken nose, the lacerations on the back of the head, we know that this was a true fight, and it wasn`t just a little skirmish. It was a real fight.
When you look at the back of Zimmerman`s head, you see what looks like points where almost it was like gravel or a cut from a road. I mean, you can`t really tell exactly what it was. But that wasn`t from a fist. That wasn`t from a laceration from being, the head impacting on the ground, on hard ground or gravel. So those are -- it`s a serious fight.
None of this tells us what happened about in the car, who approached who or otherwise. What it does tell us is it was mutual combat. It was a fight to the death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we have new information on the range at which Trayvon marten was shot. And we`re going to reveal that on the other side of the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Betty Bowman (ph). And I`m from St. Petersburg, Florida. Jane, I love your show. I love you, but on George Zimmerman, come on. It`s like a witch hunt. Please, let`s have an open mind here. I feel really sorry for this man. You know, maybe -- maybe he was just doing his job.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: This will tell you a lot. This will tell you were they standing? Were they on the ground? Was he on top of George Zimmerman when George Zimmerman had his gun out? Or were they standing up? Had Trayvon pushed him away, and then he fired the fatal shot?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More breaking news coming in from the document dump. We`re learning from Trayvon Martin`s autopsy that the 17-year-old was shot in the chest from intermediate range. By the way, that`s just the new photo of the body shot in the autopsy report.
Now, intermediate range. Trayvon Martin shot in intermediate range. What does that mean exactly? There are various interpretations. But the consensus is Trayvon was shot anywhere from a few inches to three feet away from George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman reportedly told police that Trayvon punched him to the ground and got on top of him, and that`s when Trayvon was hot.
If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, how could the gun fire be several inches away, let alone several feet?
To try to sort all this out, Mike Knox, forensic consultant, what does intermediate range mean? When this autopsy that I`m holding in my hand says that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin at intermediate range, what exactly are they talking about?
MIKE KNOX, FORENSIC CONSULTANT: Well, what they`re talking about, Jane, is that when you fire a pistol like this, you`re going to have some type of gunshot residue. You`re going to have particles of -- of the partially burned and unburned powder. You`re going to get soot from the combustion that comes out of the firearm, and that gets deposited around the wound. It gets deposited on the scanner (ph) and clothing that`s covering it.
With intermediate range, based on that gunshot residue, the pathologist is able to tell that the gun is not in contact with the skin, so at least several inches away, but it was close enough to have deposited that soot, the stippling, the gun shot particle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what`s the outside of that? What`s the outside? You say several inches, so not touching the body but several inches. And then what`s the outside range? How far away can it be and still be intermediate?
KNOX: With most firearms of this type, about three feet is where you would be at your maximum. After that you wouldn`t see any of this gunshot residue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Because I thought that was distant.
KNOX: Distant would means that there`s no presence of any type of gunshot residue. So at that point, you know it would have to be beyond the three feet, but you wouldn`t know how far beyond it. It could be far...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, breaking news. You are looking at these photos for the first time released moments ago here on our show as part of the document dump that also includes Trayvon Martin`s autopsy report. We`re learning more about his injuries, George Zimmerman`s injuries. More.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN CRUMP, LAWYER FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: You want all of the evidence to be out so it could be held in the full context. Did he have bruises or blood or something on his hands, as another piece of leaked information suggests?
Well, Trayvon Martin is fighting for his life. He is fighting for his life against a man with a 9 millimeter gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s much -- mountains of new evidence released moments ago. This document dump part of discovery, which you know, the state of Florida has these incredible sunshine laws where they have to make all of this stuff public. But we`re also asking tonight why did it all come out now?
And Trayvon Martin`s family`s attorneys believe it`s because all of these leaks in the past couple of days that were beneficial to George Zimmerman.
And Zimmerman`s attorney, Mark O`Mara, would not comment on any of this, because he says he`s in the midst of a case.
But Mark Lamont Hill, professor at Columbia University, do you think both sides are playing politics with the evidence, trying to leak or release in ways that will be favorable to their interpretation of events?
HILL: Oh, absolutely. I mean, even before formal evidence was introduced, even putting up pictures of Trayvon Martin in his Sunday best was an attempt to shape public opinion in a certain way.
And now what we`re seeing with the evidence is that you`re seeing leaks of things that really have nothing to do with the elements of the case here. Whether or not Trayvon Martin was suspended from school, whether or not he had marijuana in his body, none of these things are consequential with regards to what happened that night.
But it`s a careful campaign that is being crafted by George Zimmerman`s attorneys and by the people with whom he`s well connected to make George Zimmerman look like a good guy who was saving the neighborhood from a bad kid. And that plays into a lot of scripts and stereotypes we have in society, and it`s very problematic.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.
Now, we`ve been going through this document dump. I`m getting new tidbits on my BlackBerry. Jon Lieberman`s reading it. We`re all reading it. What are some of the things that you just found?
LIEBERMAN: Yes. I mean, there are a few pretty significant things coming in: BlackBerry, paper, everything.
One is that a detective believed that this encounter was, quote, "avoidable" if George Zimmerman stayed in his car and, quote, "awaited the arrival of law enforcement." That`s very interesting, because this now sort of showcases that there was at least one detective on the scene who believed that, had Zimmerman stayed in his car, this wouldn`t have happened.
I think we all agree that, of course, had Zimmerman stayed in his car, none of this would have happened. But that`s all theoretical at this point. Had there not been a gun, there wouldn`t have been a murder.
A couple of other real quick things, Jane. One is that two witness statements in this report seemed to show -- two different witnesses show that a black male was on top of a white or Hispanic male throwing punches.
So there you have two witnesses who seem to back up George Zimmerman`s account. And when put together with the physical evidence, that it appeared that Trayvon was the only one striking blows.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Reaction to that from Michelle Suskauer, criminal defense attorney.
SUSKAUER: Well, first of all, Jane, I think that, in terms of spinning, both sides have spun. And they`re spinning for potential jurors out there, because this case may go to a jury if it`s not dismissed beforehand with the "stand your ground" law.
But I think you need to understand that, down here in Florida, with the law that we have, you don`t need to have a physical altercation. I mean, that`s all well and good. We have one and that may help hurt one side or the other. I think right now what`s come out has truly helped the defense.
But the fact of the matter is you don`t need to have a physical altercation at all to have this defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More, new information coming in on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH TRAYVON MARTIN`S MURDER: Hey, we`ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there`s a real suspicious guy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said he shot him dead. The person is dead laying on the ground.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Zimmerman had a prescription for two drugs, Temazepam and Adderall.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Adderall can change your vision. It can change how you perceive things. It can make you angrier and more aggressive.
Trayvon Martin`s autopsy showed that he had injuries on his knuckles when he died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The medical examiner found only two injuries on 17-year-old Trayvon Martin`s body, his fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Our son was not committing any crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
CROWD: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something in George Zimmerman`s mind made him get out of the car with a 9 millimeter gun and go after a kid who by his own words -- George Zimmerman`s own words -- was running away from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news in and it is a doozy. We have a massive document dump in the Trayvon Martin case. I`m holding in my hands right now the autopsy report on Trayvon Martin. You are looking at new photos just released of George Zimmerman after this tragic, terrible event. And we`ve got other new information that`s coming in on Blackberries on all sort of devices because everybody`s analyzing this huge, huge mountain of documents.
We`ve got these photos. We`ve learned from the autopsy report that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin at an intermediate range and we`re going to analyze what that means to try to narrow that down. We also learned from the autopsy report that Trayvon Martin had pot in his system, but how long, we do not know.
Also, we are learning there were no injuries to George Zimmerman`s hands. Now Trayvon Martin had an injury to one finger. We are also learning that the FBI report says that the FBI cannot determine whether George Zimmerman used a racial slur or not and the FBI cannot determine who was screaming on the 911 tapes. Both issues subject of tremendous debate.
Also, we are learning that police cannot determine who threw the first punch. So this and more coming in as we speak.
Lisa Bloom, as all of this information comes in like pieces of the puzzle, is there anything we can extrapolate from it or is it dangerous to extrapolate based on information coming in like this at rapid speed scatter shot.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Well, I think we can extrapolate. We can analyze and we can look at all of this closely but we all have to keep an open mind because more information is going to continue to be revealed.
And we criticize, I criticize the stand your ground law which allows people to stand their ground and fight back instead of safely escaping without any violence. The question here: who is standing his ground? Was it Trayvon Martin standing his ground because we know that George Zimmerman was following him? Or was it Zimmerman, who does have injuries now on the back of his head consistent with his story that he was down on his back and Trayvon Martin was on top of him.
Who was the aggressor? Who escalated? We still don`t know and frankly we may never know because we`re never going to hear Trayvon Martin`s side of the story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, very little about this case is definitive except that a young man is tragically dead. Now, all this debate about what intermediate range means. We contacted a slew of experts today; we`ve gotten different interpretations of that phrase from the experts.
Well, some say it`s not a contact. Everybody agrees it`s not actual contact, but where, if it`s not contact, is the shot coming from? That is the subject of disagreement and we`ve heard as much as three feet. We`ve heard some say 18 inches, some say a dozen inches.
So I want to go back to Mike Knox, forensic consultant. As people try to understand this case, what does it say that even the experts can`t definitively say what intermediate range means? And my understanding is that there will be tests done probably on the actual weapon that was used with the ammo that remains to determine exactly down to the final, final dot how far George Zimmerman was away.
MIKE KNOX, FORENSIC CONSULTANT: Yes Jane, there are actually notations in the autopsy report about the size of the stifling (ph) pattern and the fact that there`s a presence of soot. Intermediate range is a fairly wide range when you have the soot and you have actual size of the stifling then with that test you can narrow it down to within an inch or two of what the actual distance is between the muzzle of the firearm and the gunshot wound. In this case it`s probably going to come in somewhere around 6 to 12 inches.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, until that test is done, we will not know exactly how far away George Zimmerman was and even what position the two males were during this confrontation. And so that, to me, is just a metaphor for how difficult it is going to be to really determine beyond a reasonable doubt exactly what happened, Jon Leiberman?
JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That`s the key. Who attacked whom, is the key.
Jane this just came in. Trayvon`s girlfriend`s statement to police just in the final minutes -- very, very good.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s say this, that she was on the cell phone with Trayvon --
LEIBERMAN: Yes, this is the cell phone conversation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- At the time -- like leading up to -- not necessarily when the shot was fired, but in the minutes leading up to this confrontation.
LEIBERMAN: The girl said she told Trayvon to keep running. This is into the conversation now. But he said quote, "He said he isn`t going to run because he`s right by his father`s house." And in a couple of minutes he said a man is following him, he`s behind him. The girlfriend against says, "Run." She says Trayvon was breathing hard and Trayvon asked, "Why are you following me for?" That was a quote. And a man`s voice said quote, "What are you doing around here?"
Then the girlfriend hears a noise and the call drops off. So that exchange there -- the exchange of why are you following me for which is apparently Trayvon saying to Zimmerman and then a man`s voice, Zimmerman saying what are you doing around here. Then the call cuts off.
That is from Trayvon`s girlfriend. That is the last time we heard Trayvon`s voice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mike Knox, just to go back to you for a second. They will be able to use the phone records and the 911 calls to determine a timeline that is quite precise because correct me if I`m wrong, we hear a shot on the 911 calls.
KNOX: Right. We do. It`s a different call from the girlfriend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a different call from the girlfriend, so when we hear a shot on the 911 call from somebody else in the distance and so they`re going to be able to piece together her timeline of when her phone records say she hears that with the 911 call, correct?
KNOX: Yes, that`s correct. Basically, you could take all the different recordings, you can put them together in a timeline and sequence out what happens. What`s the exact timeframe and you`ll have a lot more context to what actually happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to the phone lines. Kim, thank you for your patience. Kim, Ohio; your question or thought, Kim.
KIM, OHIO (via telephone): Hello, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
KIM: You`re wonderful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
KIM: I was wondering, medically speaking when someone gets a broken nose don`t they normally have severe bruising black and blue around both eyes from the corner out. Everybody I`ve known in 54 years has had black and blue all around the eyes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just want to say this for having been, when I was in a teenager, I was in a car accident and I didn`t break my nose but I hit my head on the windshield and I did get black eyes, but they came in three or four days later. So in that, I would suspect that if he did have black eyes it would be interesting, I think. And I`ll throw this at Lisa Bloom, it would be interesting to see if he develops black eyes and I would assume that they would have taken photographs if he did develop black eyes a couple of days later.
BLOOM: Yes. But that`s the key. A couple of days later and he was free. He was not in custody. Was he still being photographed? Was he still being investigated? I think the answer is no. There`s such a lack of evidence that should have been gathered and maintained but unfortunately is probably gone forever and that`s among it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All of this -- speaking of which comes on the heels of a scathing report in the "New York Times", listing major blunders allegedly committed by the Sanford Police Department. And they go on and on but here`s a couple. Photo evidence of Zimmerman was not immediately released. It wasn`t even downloaded for days.
Zimmerman`s SUV was not secured as evidence because the cops thought well, he arrived on foot. Wrong. Ok, the crime scene itself was not covered and protected from the rain. And my understanding, it was a rainy so evidence could have washed way.
Zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol. We know that might have been a huge deal because he had prescriptions for Adderall and Temazepam.
And finally a background check for Zimmerman was performed the next morning after he was already freed from custody so cops didn`t even know about his previous altercations with police or his ex-wife even though neither resulted in conviction.
Marc Lamont Hill, your thoughts on police blunders.
MARC LAMONT-HILL, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Oh, man. This is about a blundering police department that didn`t do its due diligence. It`s not just about and in that department. It`s also about bias. They came in with the assumption that Trayvon was the bad guy. It would be one thing if they didn`t test anybody for drugs, but they managed to test the dead kid on the ground and not test George Zimmerman. There was a presumption that George Zimmerman did nothing wrong and Trayvon did.
They let him walk out of there. They let him go home that night. They didn`t test his clothes. All of the things that would be consistent with a pure, unbiased investigation are not in this case. And this is a consistent phenomenon that we see.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I want to think my expert panel. We will continue on analyze all of this and we will bring you all the new information we get tomorrow on this show.
Stay right there. We have more.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could he have hurt himself after killing the young man or since he went and seen his own family doctor could this sort of been fabricated and his doctor lied about his injuries?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Tucson police chief is confirming that the six-year-old was, quote, "abducted". He also says Isabel`s parents have not been ruled out as suspects in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tucson police who have released 911 calls on the disappearance of six-year-old Isabel Celis.
REBECCA CELIS, MOTHER OF ISABEL CELIS: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, ma`am, are you the mom?
R.CELIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. What is your name?
R. CELIS: My name`s Rebecca Celis, C-E-L-I-S.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who noticed her gone, your husband?
R. CELIS: My husband. I went to work this morning at 7:00 and --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you hear anything at all?
R. CELIS: No, I didn`t hear anything at all.
SERGIO CELIS, FATHER OF ISABEL CELIS: We are cooperating to the fullest extent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are labeling it as suspicious circumstances and a possible abduction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her parents say she was snatched from her bedroom last month. Isabel`s father seemed to be somewhat calm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you think she was abducted?
S. CELIS: I have no idea. We woke up this morning. I went to go get her up for her baseball game and she`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is mom there also.
S. CELIS: She had just left from work. I just called her and I told her to get her butt home.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight brand new developments in the missing Isabel Celis case. Just hours ago cops confirmed reports that Child Protective Services visited the Celis household last December -- just a few months before, emphasis, before Isabel vanished. Listen to this.
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SGT. MARIA HAWKE, TUCSON POLICE DEPT: Previous contact with the family is my understanding has been made. I can`t say specifically when that happened, in what capacity, what the circumstances were. It was not a TPD-initiated investigation so it`s not something that we have very direct knowledge about. And it would be inappropriate for us to guess or to speak on CPS` behalf.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: So why were they called out to the seemingly happy home? Dental hygienist and nurse, three kids; maybe it wasn`t as happy as it appeared. Cops confirmed they did respond to multiple 911 calls from that address before Isabel went missing, but cops stress that the investigation is in full swing and that nobody including the parents are off the hook in this hunt for Isabel.
Straight out to HLN senior producer Selin Darkalstanian. Selin you were at the news conference today. Tell us, what are -- first of all what can you tell us about this new development that Child Protective Services visited the Celis` house months before the child went missing?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: We are here at the police station right now and cops did tell us that. Actually they started off the press conference stressing that the family is still being looked at as a suspect first and foremost.
So they keep stressing that the family is still being looked. And that was like the first thing they tried to get across to us. And they also said that Child Protective Services had visited the Celis home before Isabel went missing so it makes you wonder what went on inside that house, why were they called, what went on behind those walls of that house for them to have visited and did they do anything to follow up and does it have anything to do with Isabel missing today?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s look at the basic timeline. December 2011, this past December, Child Protective Services reportedly pays a visit to the Celis house. They have not released the reason for that visit. And then four months later, April 21, Isabel goes missing from her own bedroom. Then May 11, the father agrees to have zero contact with his sons, but this was voluntary, but he`s essentially some would interpret banned from having any contact with the sons, not even a phone call.
Lisa Bloom author of "Swagger", attorney at the Bloom Firm, what is this telling you?
BLOOM: You know, there`s so much suspicion swirling around this family, but Jane, I have to tell you my heart breaks for them. If they are innocent, they have lost a little girl who has disappeared, hopefully who will be found at some point. And I hate to speculate on what these kind of bits and pieces mean. I mean Child Protective Services being called can be such a range from minor incidents to something major.
Being told to keep away from his sons and agreeing to that -- that is a big deal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Dr. Brian Russell, your take?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, Jane, when we talk about timeliness, one thing that`s for sure is when a child is abducted and the family is not involved that is usually determined way before now. So the fact that we`re still talking about it this long after the child went missing is deeply concerning.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sneakers next but first, you deserve a laugh break.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dog. The two-year-old. The dog --
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We all talk about the dangers of pollution and climate change and how we all need to recycle. I don`t know if it`s getting into everyone`s heads.
And I`m going to go to the garbage cans of New York and show you that we are not doing it right. We are throwing recyclable items right in the trash.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I took to the streets to see if anyone was recycling. And I saw all these plastic bottles thrown out with the trash -- all of it heading toward landfills instead of being recycled.
We are all trying to do our part to get people to change, to switch to reusable mugs, et cetera. My next guest Gary Gagnon is going further. He brought his fabulous idea to "Shark Tank".
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GARY GAGNON, FOUNDER, REMYXX: My name is Gary Gagnon. I`m the founder and creator of Remyxx but I have to be crazy to think I`m going enter the footwear industry to go up against these big sneaker giants?
You see, that`s where I am crazy. Crazy with a kick that I know only Remyxx can deliver.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You are giving me a kick, Gary. I love you. I love your sneakers. Tell us why these sneakers are unique. First of all, they are totally cool looking. They look incredible but they`re good for the planet, why?
GAGNON: Thank you Jane. And I have a pink one here just for you. They are good for the planet because they are the only footwear in the industry that is completely landfill free. Most shoes go into the trash, they go into a landfill. Remyxx is one of a kind is only shoe that is completely landfill-free to be made into a new product after in a second life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let`s say I wear these for awhile. And I get all my toes poking through and I decide it`s time to throw them out. Do I put them in the blue bin?
GAGNON: My sneakers are lab certified materials and technically proven that you can put them in the blue bin. The education that Remyxx is going to bring is going to help all the recyclers and collection agencies to understand that yes, my number five can go into your blue bin.
What happens with it after that is out of my control, obviously. I can`t control all the collection agencies. When I get them back, they can go back into being new products and materials including a new pair of Remyxx.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, you are saying wear these puppies, and then after you have worn them for -- you have worn them out, send them back to you? In other words, does it come with an envelope and I can send it back to you?
GAGNON: That is in the process right now as we speak, Jane. Eventually on the Web site you`ll be able to go to remyxxsneakers.com and we`ll give you those instructions to send them back to me as I like to say, it`s truly honest recyclability.
If you put them in your bucket at the curb side, the recyclers can actually, technically recycle them with other similar number 5 products like yogurt tubs and food containers where if they mix it in there, absolutely it would go forward and it will be made into new products materials.
The recyclers on the other hand, they`re not used to sneakers. So like I like to say about Remyxx, it`s not only about fashion and design, it`s also about awareness and sustainability where by wearing sneakers, I`m going to be educating the public and growing into the world to change. Not just sneakers but to do more in recycling. That can even go into you curb side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Remyxx, R-E-M-Y-X-X. Check it out. These are the kind of products we need.
I wish you the best success because my gosh, we have to do something. This is a crisis. Thanks.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our show is doing a nightly adventure to slimness. I have been doing it myself now for two weeks. Eight glasses of water a day, an apple a day and then doing exercises with anything that you have right at the office.
Now, I have had some challenges but here is what I learned. I lose track of how many glasses I have been drinking every day unless I shout it out. If I drink a glass and I finish the first glass, I go "one". And then if I finish the second glass, I go "two". Because otherwise, I forget how many glasses I have had.
And as for the apple -- I`m now learning after two weeks to save it for when I`m getting hungry and want to eat that bad thing. You know what I`m talking about.
Go to my Facebook page. We are working with Kathy Freston of "The Lean" and we are also working with magician Tom. Join our adventure.
Nancy next.
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