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Nancy Grace
California Woman Found Stabbed to Death in Bedroom; 19-year-old Texas Girl Vanishes
Aired May 18, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Reading (ph). A young mother of five, a college professor, on the eve of her wedding anniversary, then EMTs rush to find blond beauty Karen Duenas brutally stabbed to death in her lavish bedroom.
Bombshell tonight. Divers, search teams, K9s, metal detectors scan the area to no avail. Tonight, who murdered a loving young mother of five, Karen Duenas?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beautiful Karen Duenas was reportedly found with a large gash in her chest and blood everywhere. For years, Karen Duenas was married to her husband, Mark, but tragedy strikes. Mark calls 911, and police conclude her death is a homicide, Karen critically wounded, a large gash in her chest and blood everywhere. Investigators conduct multiple searches of the home. Why? And who killed beautiful mom Karen Duenas?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live to Texas. A 19-year-old leaves work at the local KFC, then disappears into thin air. Tonight, where is 19-year-old Ashley (ph)?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen 19-year-old Texas girl Ashley? Police need your help after Ashley seemingly vanishes without a trace. She returns home from her night shift at a local KFC, began her second job cutting hair later that evening. What happens next? A mystery.
Her boyfriend reportedly storms out and says he was gone for a few hours, leaving Ashley at the apartment with a mystery man who stopped by to ask for a haircut. When the boyfriend returns, Ashley is gone. Who was in the apartment with Ashley? And was another mystery man seen nearby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live to Reading. A young mother of five, a college professor, on the eve of her wedding anniversary, EMTs race to the scene to find the young mom stabbed to death brutally in her lavish bedroom. After search teams, police, K9s, divers, metal detectors scour the area, still there is no break in the search for Karen.
We are taking your calls. But first, straight out to Steve Gibson, news director, KQMS. Steve, what happened that night?
STEVE GIBSON, KQMS NEWSTALK 1400 (via telephone): What happened that night is mostly shrouded in mystery at this point because the Shasta County sheriff`s office has released very few details. What we know is Karen was found by her husband, Mark Duenas, at 1:00 AM on that morning, May 5th. He reported a large gash in her chest...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait! Whoa, whoa! Steve Gibson, KQMS, you said Mark Duenas -- that`s the husband?
GIBSON: Yes.
GRACE: So the husband finds his wife brutally stabbed to death in, I assume, their joint bedroom. They`re still married. They`re about to celebrate their wedding anniversary, right?
GIBSON: Yes. Their wedding anniversary was yesterday.
GRACE: So the husband finds the wife dead, and he calls it in at 1:00 AM, Steve Gibson?
GIBSON: Correct and...
GRACE: Where`s he been until 1:00 AM, Steve? I`d like to know that. If my husband dragged in with the cats at 1:00 AM, I`d be a little concerned. Why is he just finding his wife dead in the bedroom at 1:00 AM? Where has he been all night?
GIBSON: The sheriff`s department has refused to respond to questions of whether he was there and woke up and discovered her, whether he came home from elsewhere and discovered her, or just what the circumstances were of his discovery.
GRACE: All right. You know, for all I know, Steve, he worked the night shift. Go ahead.
GIBSON: Pardon me?
GRACE: For all I know, he worked the night shift. Go ahead. He comes home, he finds her, he calls 911. This is 1:00 AM. Then what happens?
GIBSON: He called 911, said there`s blood everywhere, his wife has a large gash in her chest, and he does not know what happened to her.
GRACE: A large gash in her chest. It`s my understanding, Victoria Taft, radio talk show host, joining us, KPAM -- it`s my understanding that she had multiple stab wounds, in addition to that one gash to the chest that Steve Gibson`s describing?
VICTORIA TAFT, TALK SHOW HOST, AM 860 KPAM: Well, that`s right. That`s an interesting point, too. He knew there was a gash in the middle of her chest and he also told the 911 operator there was blood everywhere. I don`t know. If there`s that much blood, I`m not sure how you can tell how many gashes or where the blood is coming from at times. Perhaps it was obvious. But we found out later, after an autopsy that, in fact, there were multiple stab wounds, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what? To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining us tonight out of Salem. Dr. Manion, Victoria Taft is right. I`ve seen a lot of murder scenes where at first, you can`t tell the cause of death, the COD. You can`t tell whether it`s a gunshot wound, you can`t tell if it`s a stabbing, whether it`s multiple stabbing, multiple gunshot wounds until the body is cleaned up. When there`s a lot of blood, you really can`t tell.
But when you get in there, Dr. Manion, what can you tell specifically? I want to hear, Dr. Manion, what you can determine about the murder from stab wounds. What can you learn?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, we can tell if the knife has one edge or the knife has a double edge by looking at the wound. Most knifes are single-edged, so one end of the wound will have a sharp point that ends. The other end of the wound will have a flat, wide, maybe a two- millimeter type of impression. So first of all, we can tell how -- if it`s single-edge or double-edge.
Next we measure the depth of the wounds, and that will give us some idea of how long the blade is. The knife handle, if it`s plunged in all the way, the handle will strike the skin and oftentimes leave a mark on the skin itself.
So I would look for a wound like that to get a good idea of how long that particular knife was. And obviously...
GRACE: Well, isn`t it true, Dr. Ma Manion, that when you have a stab victim, very often, you will find stab wounds on the victim`s hands, where there have been defensive -- defensive mechanisms to try to stop the stab wounds, stop the stabbing?
And also, isn`t it true that very often, you may get the perpetrator`s DNA also on the murder weapon because with a knife, when you slice down, very often, the perp`s hand can slide on the knife and the perp gets cut on the hand. Isn`t that true, Manion?
MANION: Yes, absolutely. And in fact, the homicide down in Florida that was 25 years old, recently was solved, the person had stabbed someone, left the building and dripped his own blood on the ground from his own stab wound after killing the woman. And 25 years later, they got a DNA hit on him when he was arrested for another crime of cheating on his taxes, I believe it was.
GRACE: A murder got uncovered because of cheating on your taxes? Word to the wise, don`t cheat the tax man.
All right, back to you, Manion. I`m not done with you yet. Depth of the wound -- what does depth of the wound tell me that can actually be very, very important?
MANION: Absolutely. It`ll tell you how long the knife blade was. Was it a steak knife? Was it a Butcher knife? Was it a hunting knife? And obviously, they were doing all that searching around there with metal detectors, looking for the knife itself. It seems to me maybe they didn`t find the knife at the scene if they`re doing all this searching around the area.
GRACE: What I`m trying to also determine, Dr. Manion, is, was she in bed? Was she asleep when she was attacked? Because, see, that`s going to narrow down my timeline for me as to when the murder took place. If she was in bed, I know that -- you know, that helps me.
MANION: Well, hopefully, if a good person was there, they may have put a thermometer into the liver to get an idea what her core temperature was. The body loses heat at the rate of 1.5 degrees per hour, on average, depending, you know, if the room is ambient, is 70 degrees. There are formulae that we can try and calculate. If she`s 10 degrees it -- if she`s, like, 88 instead of 98, then she`s been there for at least five, six hours.
GRACE: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Now, I`m just wondering if the killer posed the body.
To Ellie Jostad, also on the story, our chief editorial producer. Do we believe the bed in her, I`ve been told, lavish bedroom was the scene of the murder? Was she killed elsewhere? Was she running away? Do we know where the stab wounds are on the body?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No. And these are all questions that we`re trying to get answered by the Shasta County sheriff`s department. They will not say what type of weapon specifically was used to stab her, whether they have that weapon. We believe they don`t, obviously, because of all these searches going on.
Also, they won`t say if there are any signs of forced entry in the home, any signs of a struggle, if anything was stolen. They will not release any of those investigative details.
GRACE: Now, let me get this straight. Steve Gibson, KQMS, to my understanding, there have been searches, human searches, K9 searches, metal detector searches looking for the murder weapon, as well as dive searches.
Explain to me what the metal detector search was for and where the -- you`re seeing footage of the divers right now. Where is this I`m seeing -- where are they -- what body of water is that I`m looking at, Steve?
GIBSON: That`s an irrigation canal, that`s used for agriculture, that runs several miles through Shasta County. And the divers spent all day in that stretch of the canal looking for something, looking for evidence is all the sheriff`s department would say.
Yesterday, they returned and searched through a nearby drainage ditch and some fields, and even had an inmate fire crew with weedeaters clearing out all the brush and the weeds presumably so the searchers could see the ground.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight Jim Elliot, city attorney, Warner Robins, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta, former prosecutor, and high-profile defense attorney out of the Seattle area, Anne Bremner, is joining us.
All right, Anne. You know where we start. We start with the family. And we start with who called 911.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: Thoughts?
BREMNER: Well, we do. But the thing is, you don`t -- I know, Nancy, you`re going to say that this is the husband, that it all points to the husband. It was 1:00 in the morning. He probably wasn`t working the night shift. And you know, it`s always the husband. We always start with the family member. We always start with this.
But that`s not where it always ends, Nancy. I was thinking of a case up here in Seattle, where a woman was home sick in her bed and killed by a stranger in a stabbing case. And that can happen anywhere. It can happen anytime. There are random acts of violence everywhere, and you can`t say it`s always the husband. Never say always and never say never.
GRACE: You know, I agree with you on this one, Anne Bremner. To you, Jim Elliot. Of course, you start with the husband. And I`m wondering what he`s doing coming in at 1:00 AM, but there could be an innocent explanation for that.
But I also note that there is no forced entry. The home is not ransacked. There`s nothing stolen, and there`s no evidence, there`s no indicia of a sex assault. So what`s the motive for somebody to just come in off the street and murder her? You don`t steal anything. You don`t have a sex assault. You don`t break in. No windows left open, nothing. The cars are still there.
Help me out, Elliot.
JIM ELLIOT, CITY ATTORNEY, WARNER ROBINS, GA: Well, it does seem very suspicious, Nancy, to me. And it`s a large family, I think five sons. So you would guess lots of people have keys to the home. And so there are going to be a lot of people that -- people within the circle that you would want to look at in law enforcement.
GRACE: OK, Kirby Clements, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, weigh in. What do you think?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think one of the things that you have missing from this case is the husband having any injuries to his hand, which would indicate that he was the stabber. So if he didn`t cut himself, there are no scratches to the husband, that tends to negate him because that would be the first thing...
GRACE: Well, Kirby...
CLEMENTS: ... the police would be on.
GRACE: ... the last stabbing -- as a matter of fact, all the stabbing homicides I ever prosecuted, the perp did not have slices to the hand. They were all convicted, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: Well, that may be true, but the reality is...
GRACE: That is true.
CLEMENTS: Well, I understand, you know, you`re amazing Grace. I appreciate that. But the reality is, just because your people didn`t have stab wounds or cuts to the hand doesn`t mean this man should -- would not have them. In addition, there are no scratches to his face, nothing that would indicate that he was in a struggle with his wife.
So I would suggest that the police at this point have nothing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For years, Karen Duenas was married to her husband, Mark. Tragedy strikes. Karen found dead by her husband around 1:00 AM, reportedly found with a large gash in her chest and blood everywhere, wounded, a large gash in her chest. Mark calls 911. Police conclude her death is a homicide. A homicide. What happened to a beloved mom? Who would want to kill her?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Back to you, Victoria Taft, KPAM. Do we know if there was an alarm system in place at the home?
TAFT: You know what, Nancy, the authorities are being very tight-lipped about what was found in the home, the conditions of the body, precisely where it was, was it on the bed, all of these questions, including does it have an alarm, all unknown at this point.
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York. Dr. Pat, I think you`ll agree with me that you start with the family, and then you move out. But I`d like to get your impressions upon a bedroom murder and the mode of death, the fact that it`s a multiple stabbing.
There`s no sex assault. There`s no robbery. There`s apparently no burglary. Nothing was taken from the home. The cars are in place. This is on the eve of the wedding anniversary celebration. What does this all say to you?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: A couple of things, Nancy. One, you know, we look at behavioral profiling first instead of motivation. And as you said before, there were no indications of a forced break-in. We don`t know if the body was posed. We don`t know yet whether this was a frenzied stabbing or a cold, studied...
GRACE: Well, wouldn`t you say, Patricia, that the fact that there are multiple stab wounds equals a frenzy? That`s a lot different from a single stab. There are multiple stab wounds.
SAUNDERS: It suggests that there`s anger. Whether or not it`s out of control, I think, is really a secondary issue. There are also things that the husband did not do, or allegedly did not do. He didn`t speak at the wife`s funeral. He did not go to a memorial.
GRACE: Whoa! Back it up! Didn`t speak at the wife`s funeral? Repeat?
SAUNDERS: There was a report that he did not speak at the wife`s funeral.
GRACE: OK, Gibson, why did you leave that out? Everybody stands up and speaks, but her own husband doesn`t speak at the funeral, Steve Gibson?
GIBSON: Yes, that`s correct. No reason was given as to why he did not, and nor was any reason given as to why he did not make it to a memorial for Karen that was done at Shasta College by her colleagues.
GRACE: So the college puts on a memorial, and he doesn`t show up, Steve Gibson?
GIBSON: Correct.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tragedy strikes. Who killed beautiful mom, Karen Duenas, a beloved mom found dead by her husband around 1:00 AM? He calls 911 to report Karen critically wounded. What happened to a beloved mom?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. A beautiful young mom of five -- five boys -- and college professor found stabbed to death in her lavish bedroom. The 911 call goes out around 1:00 AM. Caller, husband.
I`m just hearing that he neither went to the memorial put on by friends and colleagues at the college where she was an instructor, nor did he speak at the funeral.
All right, back to the lawyers, Jim Elliot, Kirby Clements, Anne Bremner. OK, God forbid I`m found stabbed in my bedroom, but I would expect you, Kirby Clements, all right, who prosecuted with me, an has been a defense attorney since that time, Anne Bremner, longtime colleague, Jim Elliot -- come on! I would expect you people to at least -- all three of you, at least show up at my memorial.
Just show up. I don`t care if you speak. Just stand there and don`t say anything. Just be there. Just sign the book. You can sneak out after that. But he didn`t even bother to show up, Anne Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, we would show up and we would speak and we would sing your praises, "Amazing Grace," everything else, Nancy. But...
GRACE: You know, not him.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, we`re back to that? There`s no playbook for grief. Come on. Go ahead. I`m expecting it.
BREMNER: Yes, I know. Yes, I know, blah, blah, blah. But here`s the thing. You know, I was just thinking to myself, when I was a kid, my mother died. My dad didn`t speak at my mom`s funeral. There were four little kids. You know, my best friend just died a couple of years ago, and her husband didn`t speak at the funeral. So I mean, there are no playbooks for grief. People can be very, very...
GRACE: Did they show up? Did they show up?
BREMNER: ... devastated -- well, but they did show up. But you know what? I didn`t show up for my mother`s own funeral when I was a little kid.
GRACE: I know.
BREMNER: So you know what? It`s just -- it`s not just the playbook for grief thing, it really is something that I don`t think is that significant.
CLEMENTS: Absolutely.
GRACE: But you -- yes, right. I heard an echo, Clements. But...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... they showed up, Kirby. They showed up, Jim Elliot.
CLEMENTS: But that`s different from a funeral.
GRACE: At least drive yourself over there and fall out of the car, Jim. What about it?
ELLIOT: Well, at least for your own -- for your family, for your children. I mean, you would show up for that, I would think, if for nothing else.
GRACE: You know what, Kirby Clements? I don`t care how much you object, I`m going to get that into evidence one way or another, that he didn`t even bother to show up.
CLEMENTS: No! No, you`re not because it was at a college...
GRACE: Yes, I am.
CLEMENTS: It was at a college thing.
GRACE: Oh, yes, I am! I`ve done it before. I`d do it again.
(CROSSTALK)
CLEMENTS: I wasn`t the lawyer on that case, Nancy.
GRACE: ... memorial.
CLEMENTS: I wasn`t the lawyer on that case because you wouldn`t have gotten it in.
GRACE: Well, you weren`t the judge, Kirby Clements. So let`s put it all together, and it`s painting a concerning picture, Pat Brown.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Here`s what really gets me. He said, I don`t know what happened. Let me get this straight. You go into the room, your wife is dead, there`s blood everywhere, there`s no weapon. She`s been murdered. That`s what happened. She`s been murdered.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beautiful Karen Duenas was reportedly found with a large gash in her chest and blood everywhere. For years Karen Duenas was married to her husband, Mark, but tragedy strikes.
Mark calls 911 and police conclude her death is a homicide. Karen, critically wounded, a large gash in her chest, and blood everywhere. Investigators conduct multiple searches of the home. Why? And who killed beautiful mom, Karen Duenas?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Steve Gibson, KQMS. A gorgeous young mom of five boys found dead, stabbed to death in her lavish bedroom. EMTs race to the scene around 1:00 a.m. to find multiple stab wounds. At first they didn`t even know the cause of death. There was so much blood on the scene. Only after the autopsy did we learn there were multiple stab wounds of this college instructor on the eve of her wedding anniversary celebration. What more can you tell me, Steve Gibson?
STEVE GIBSON, NEWS DIRECTOR, KQMS NEWS TALK 1400 (via telephone): The sheriff`s department said from the outset that it was a homicide. However, they also told the neighbors and reporters and the public that nobody else had anything to fear, that there was no danger to anybody else which brought up all sorts of questions. If it were a stranger that committed the act then others would certainly have something to fear. So that brought up a lot of questions among the public from the outset.
GRACE: And by questions, to Steve Moore, former FBI agent, when you don`t have a stranger danger that really narrows down the search. Would you agree, Steve?
STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT, VIOLENT CRIME INVESTIGATOR: Yes, I think it would and it would be absolutely irresponsible, criminally, if not negligently irresponsible, for the police to come out and say don`t worry, this guy -- you`re not going to get hurt because there`s not a danger. What if somebody then got hurt by it? They have to be pretty sure about what they`re saying before they`ll say something like that. That gives it all away.
GRACE: We`re taking your calls out to Tracy in South Carolina. Hi, Tracy. What`s your question? .
TRACY, CALLER, SOUTH CAROLINA: Hey, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good.
TRACY: (INAUDIBLE). We see these kind of cases all the time. And my hope is this isn`t one of those types of cases. My question is, what is the husband`s time line? They have five children, do any of the kids hear anything? I mean, 1:00 in the morning, you find your wife dead. Have the police questioned him? Did they check his hands for stab wounds? I mean, what`s going on? Does the school have investigated? He didn`t go to the memorial service. I know people grieve in different ways. But, you know, I know he probably didn`t want to speak at the service. I`ve been to funerals and I didn`t want to speak. However, you know, what`s really going on with this case?
GRACE: Tracy in South Carolina, I get it. I mean, even if you don`t speak, at least show up for Pete`s sake. I can`t answer some of those questions. Number one, I know police have spoken to him. Number two, I`m sure that in speaking with him they observed his hands. I also know that no one in the home heard anything. Let`s see whatever shots we`ve got in the home. I can`t tell by the outside of the home. How far away their bedroom is from the other bedrooms, but if the stabbing were fresh, there you go. If the stabbing were fresh, that would suggest to me she was stabbed in her sleep and she may very well -- there may have been one outcry, and that would have been it but no one in the home heard a thing, Tracy. That was one of my first questions.
Katherine in North Carolina. Hi, Catherine. What`s your question?
CATHERINE, CALLER, NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. I wish there were more people like you in the world.
GRACE: Thank you.
CATHERINE: this world would be a better place.
GRACE: Thank you. I really appreciate that.
CATHERINE: You`re welcome, Nancy. My question is, did the police question the husband, and the whereabouts from the time he found his wife dead, does he have an alibi?
GRACE: You know what, I`m waiting to find out about an alibi.
Ellie Jested what do we know about the husband?
ELLIE JESTED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we believe he worked at least in some capacity for U.P.S. It`s unclear if he still works there. But we don`t know, and this is the key question, where was he that night? Was anybody else in the home? There is a son who is still in high school. We believe he lived at home. The neighbors that who were out and about, this was in an upscale community. You notice all those homes have swimming pools. It`s a very nice area. They say they didn`t see anything suspicious, didn`t hear anything suspicious that night.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Angela, Ohio. Hi, Angela. What`s your question?
ANGELA, CALLER, OHIO: Hello. My question is, I have two questions. The first question would be where was he supposed to be the night that happened, this brutal murder? And the second question would be, why wouldn`t he go to the memorial service? If my husband was brutally murdered, I would definitely go to every memorial service that there was.
GRACE: You know what, to you, Dr. Patricia Saunders, you are going to hear all the defense lawyers tune up that he was in such grief, he couldn`t go to the memorial service. I know as a crime victim myself, I don`t remember much of it. But I went to the funeral and I went to the interment, both. I don`t remember a lot of it but I was there.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Most people are pretty numb, Nancy, and even if they can`t talk because they`re so traumatized, at least they`re present as a way of honoring a lost loved one. But, there`s another factor here. There was the alleged report that she was getting ready to leave him. That may not be coincidental that it was coming up on the eve of their wedding anniversary.
There was also a statement by one of his friends at the funeral that he had said to him, she made me the man I am. So this may be, a hypothesis, that she was getting ready to leave him and he absolutely could not tolerate it. I`m talking about hypothetical motivation and not behavioral profiling here. But those facts should be considered.
GRACE: Isn`t it true, Dr. Saunders, that when there are intimate partner murders it typically with a female as the victim, it all comes to a head when the female attempts to leave?
SAUNDERS: Absolutely true.
GRACE: Why is that?
SAUNDERS: Because the partner, the husband, can`t tolerate the idea of losing the woman. For most men, they take it as an insult to their ego, and for some, and this guy may fit this profile, it would be a disillusion of their sense of themselves. Remember, a friend said she molded him. She made him who he was. So the idea becomes intolerable and the man goes into a murderous rage. Possible.
GRACE: I want to talk about that particular facet of it. Steve Gibson, KQMS, what do we know about she was about to leave him, this on the eve of their wedding anniversary?
GIBSON: That information has not been confirmed. That`s a rumor and the sheriff`s office says they`re looking into that and other rumors, and, as you have heard, at least one of the children is high school aged. And you know high school aged children tend to gossip and so a tremendous rumor mill emerged very early on in this in the absence of solid information from the sheriff`s office.
GRACE: Isn`t it true, Ellie Jested, that the county sheriff acknowledged reports that she was about to leave him?
JESTED: Well, right. But what the sheriff said is he can`t comment on whether those are true or not. He just said he has heard those reports as have other people in the area.
GRACE: To Sue in Georgia. Hi, Sue. What`s your question?
SUE, CALLER, GEORGIA: Hey there, Nancy. How are you doing? Well, I know everybody suspects her husband, but I was wondering if maybe there was a student obsessed with her that could have done that? Maybe that`s how he entered her husband.
GRACE: You know what, Sue, I`m not ruling that out at all. What about it, Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "only the truth."
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR, ONLY THE TRUTH: Well, if the husband wasn`t acting so strange, I would say that could be true. But, let`s go back to the one statement. I don`t know what happened. That is usually a statement made as almost an explanation that something went wrong. I don`t know what happened. Then something happened.
And the stab wound to the chest, right to the middle of the chest, are usually a severe anger thing, like you killed my love, you killed my heart, I`m killing your heart. Not saying he did it but "I don`t know what happened" is very suspicious and I`ve heard it before from people who are guilty.
GRACE: But the scenario that Sue in Georgia came up with where a student may have done this, a student, probably a male student, would fit into the scenario of what happened here because it wouldn`t require a sex assault, a theft, a burglary. He would very likely know where she lived. How would a student fit into the scenario?
BROWN: Well, you know, sometimes students do get obsessions but you usually hear about it before hand, that they are sending letters or they are making e-mails to the person. They`re usually hanging around a lot before they attempt to actually do something to them so they could connect with them forever. And we don`t see any evidence of that at this point.
GRACE: Got it. The couple met at a church dance, and it was, quote, "love at first sight."
To Diane in Washington. Hi, Diane. What`s your question?
DIANE, CALLER, WASHINGTON: Hi, Nancy. It`s a privilege talking to you.
GRACE: Thank you.
DIANE: You know, I just heard that maybe a student could have done this. But if a student had murdered her, wouldn`t her husband still have shown up for her memorial service?
GRACE: Good point, Diane in Washington. And also that still doesn`t answer my question of where was he at 1:00 a.m.? Of course the husband found her, but we`re working now under a hypothetical that a student may have murdered this young mom of five.
Take a look at Karen Duenas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police need your help locating 19-year-old Texas girl, Ashley. Ashley`s boyfriend reportedly sees her cutting hair for a client in the couple`s apartment but then storms out. Police say they have Ashley`s cell phone in their possession and it`s not working.
Authorities also reveal it appears nothing was taken from her apartment. Ashley last seen wearing a gray tank tomorrow and black pants. She`s 5`2" and weighs about 115 pounds. Questions swirling. Who harmed Ashley?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. This young girl leaving her job at the local KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken, has never been seen again. All of you parents, you urge your children to go to school and get a job. Look what happened to this girl. I did it. I went to school, high school, college, and worked. But think of her. This teen leaving her job at the local KFC. She`s never seen again.
Joe Gomez, KITH, what can you tell me? What happened?
JOE GOMEZ, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, KITH NEWS RADIO: Nancy is, it`s a heart breaking story. This beautiful 19-year-old girl vanishes in the middle of the night after returning home from working the late shift from KFC. Her boyfriend reportedly last saw her cutting a strange man`s hair in their apartment late in the evening. When he returned, Nancy, she was gone. And now we`re trying to establish is there a connection? Did this strange man take this beautiful teenage girl? That`s what we`re trying to figure out, Nancy.
GRACE: To Stacey Newman, she was well liked by everyone. She was well liked at her job. Everyone else is placing her leaving the KFC. What more can you tell me, Stacey?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: What I can tell you is two new witnesses have emerged in the case, Nancy, who say they have seen Ashley between the time that her boyfriend left the apartment after they got into that fight and the time that he came home at 2:00 a.m. and found her gone. One of them a neighbor says she came to the house crying about the argument. He offered her a place to sleep that night. She told him, no, she`d rather go for a walk. He never saw her again.
Another neighbor, who is unidentified, said he saw Ashley walking around the complex with a heavy set male. Cops are now trying to get a hold of that witness, their phone records, because they think they were on the phone at the time they saw Ashley with this mystery male. They`re trying to lock down a time line.
GRACE: Take a look at Ashley Biadaris, 5`2", 115 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. She is last seen wearing a gray tank top, black pants. Her phone was broken. Nothing was taken from her apartment. This all occurred in Euless, Texas at Dallas area.
Tip line 817-685-1556. 817-685-1556.
What do you think, Pat Brown? Europe the criminal profiler.
BROWN: Well, this is confusing. The boyfriend`s story is strange. But we have witnesses saying she is found walking outside. She is an easy kind of girl to grab and haul away, so it`s possible she left the complex and somebody saw this as an opportunity and grabbed her, but they`re going to have to really narrow down whether the boyfriend maybe came back and something happened then or whether something occurred when she left the apartment. I don`t think the guy was in the apartment. I don`t buy it.
GRACE: Stacey, do we know if the KFC had surveillance video? I`m not really buying anything that I`m hearing after the point where she left the KFC.
NEWMAN: Well, I`m pretty sure that KFC does have surveillance video. But, cops have confirmed she did get a ride home from work with a friend. So, we know for a fact she was seen leaving that KFC.
However, cops say the boyfriend is fully cooperating. He is not a suspect. He has taken a polygraph. He`s allowed cops to search his car and apartment. So they say he is fully cooperating in this investigation.
GRACE: You know, it`s every family`s worst nightmare, your daughter just disappears into thin air and nobody seems to have any answers.
Tip line 817-685-1556. 817-685-1556.
We`ll be right back. Tonight`s "CNN heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK? Here, let me help you. My mom has been sick for as long as I can remember. We need more methadone. Helping her out is a bigger priority than going to school. Because I don`t know what I would do if something happened to her. I wouldn`t really be able to live.
CONNIE SISKOWSKI, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: In the United States there are at least 1.3 million children caring for someone who is ill, elderly or disabled. They can become isolated. There are physical effects, the stresses of it, and the worry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.
SISKOWSKI: But these children suffer silently. People don`t know they exist. I`m Connie Siskowski. I am bringing this population into the light to transform their lives so they can stay in school.
We offer each child a home visit. Has the ramp been helpful? We look at what we can provide to meet the needs. We go into the schools with a peer support group, and we offer out-of-school activities that give the child a break. So they not alone. We give them hope for their future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nicholas?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now I`m getting a`s and b`s and I feel more confident.
SISKOWSKI: We have a long way to go. There`s so many more children that really need this help and support.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police need your help after Ashley seemingly vanishes without a trace. She returns home from her night shift at a local KFC. Began her second job cutting hair later that evening. What happens next? A mystery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It`s every family`s worst nightmare, you raise your child, proud of them, they`re going to school, got a job. This teen leaves her job at the local KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and she`s never seen again.
We`re taking your calls. Kelly in Arkansas. Hi, Kelly. What`s your question?
KELLY, CALLER, ARKANSAS: Great to talk to you. I have one big question but a few parts. The first thing is, I`m sure, like, most teenagers, she`s got a facebook and twitter and stuff like that. Have they started investigations on looking into that?
And then second, also, I had a question regarding apartment complexes usually have some type of video surveillance or businesses or anything like that.
Is it centrally located where there`s possible security footage seeing her come and go from either, one, her job, or two, apartment?
GRACE: Kelly in Arkansas, you ought to go into crime scene investigation. What about it, Stacey Newman? What do we know in answer to Kelly in Arkansas`s question.
NEWMAN: An answer to Kelly`s question, there are no surveillance cameras unfortunately about the complex. And as far as facebook and twitter, cops are going through that now, they are going through texts now, they are going through the boyfriend`s phone records at this time.
GRACE: I don`t get it, Joe Gomez. KTRH. I`ve got my place nanny camp out the yin-yang. And a whole apartment complex in this day and age doesn`t have security videos?
GOMEZ: Yes, it`s very strange scenario. Also what`s also strange, Nancy, is that this beautiful little girl was apparently running after her boyfriend after he was taking off in the parking lot. Surely, somebody would have heard her screams because she was begging him to stop, asking him, please, don`t go. I`m wondering if there may be other folks out there who may have heard something and just not coming forward yet.
GRACE: The tip line, 817-685-1556.
Let`s stop and remember Navy senior chief petty officer John Marcum, 34, flushing, Michigan, killed Afghanistan. A Navy S.E.A.L. served 17 years. Two silver stars, five bronze stars, purple heart. A state wrestling champion.
Leaves behind parents Wayne and Luellen, sister, Kaylee, widow, Cindy, daughter, Madison. John Marcum, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room.
Good night, Brett, Liz, Rosie, Dana, and of course, the entire back deck.
Everyone, I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
