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Nancy Grace
Rutgers Spycam Sentence 30 Days
Aired May 21, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, New Brunswick. They sacrificed and saved their whole lives to send their teenage son to prestigious Rutgers University. But then the unexpected, the unforeseen, the dreaded call, their teen boy drowned, dead, drowned in the swirling waters of the Hudson River.
Then uncovered, a stunning and cruel trail of torment by his own college roommate, here from India to use the U.S. higher education system, a trail of mocking, of jabs, of gibes, and ultimately, live-streaming the teen`s first sex encounter with a male there in the dorm room over the Internet.
Well, it all ended, it ended in the death of teen Tyler Clementi. Giving in to the pain and intimidation and humiliation, Tyler drowned dead.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, after a jury hears the evidence and brings down a hammer on India-born Dharun Ravi, handing down a guilty verdict, outrage! The judge`s sentence, just 30 days in a county jail. This after a teen student is found dead? No!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A heart-wrenching cyber-bullying case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly, he posted this FaceBook message just before he took his life. Quote, "Jumping off the GW Bridge. Sorry," end quote.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Roommate asked for room until midnight.
DHARUN RAVI, TYLER CLEMENTI`S ROOMMATE: And I went into Molly`s room and I turned on my Webcam from there, and I saw him making out with some dude.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ravi will report a 30-day jail term...
-- 30-day jail term...
-- 30-day jail term...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Webcam?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you violate this man`s privacy?
RAVI: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This individual was not convicted of a hate crime, he was convicted of a bias crime. I say that because I do not believe he hated Tyler Clementi, but I do believe he acted out of colossal insensitivity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, after a jury hears the evidence and brings down the hammer on India-born Dharun Ravi, handing down a guilty verdict, outrage! Sentence, just 30 days in the county jail, this after a teen student is found drowned dead?
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Jason Carroll, CNN correspondent joining us there on the scene. Jason, I`m stunned! I am stunned that this judge, Glenn Berman -- he says there`s a big difference between a hate crime and a bias crime.
This is what I know. I know he could have been sentenced to 10 years behind bars. This judge needs to put this teen boy`s picture up in front of his desk and look at it every day!
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, I know you`re stunned. I know the Clementi family -- and they just actually just walked out of the courtroom behind me just a few moments ago. I know they are stunned, as well.
As you know -- you know this case very well -- before this trial even started, Dharun Ravi was offered a plea deal, where he could have pleaded to a lesser charge, not served any jail time at all. He turned that down.
And in the beginning, when I spoke to Tyler Clementi`s parents, I got the sense that much of this could have been avoided if what they had heard somewhere along the line early on was some sort of apology, some sort of acknowledgement for Dharun Ravi`s wrongdoing in connection with what happened to their son. They never heard that.
And the judge even in the courtroom today acknowledged that one of the things he never heard from Dharun Ravi was some sort of an apology...
GRACE: Jason! Jason!
CARROLL: And so you can imagine how shocked everyone was when they heard...
GRACE: Jason, stop!
CARROLL: ... the sentencing.
GRACE: The only thing that matters to me, what this judge said, is the sentence. He can lecture the defendant all he wants to about what a bad thing he did, but you know, he did the walk -- but he did the talk, but he didn`t walk the walk. He did not hand down an appropriate sentence! At first, I thought the defendant was crying behind -- crying there, but then I figured out he`s laughing behind his hand! He got 30 days behind bars. That`s it.
I got one question to ask you, Jason. And that is, isn`t it true this teen boy found dead in the Hudson River beneath the bridge? Isn`t that true? After a long period of torment by his roommate!
CARROLL: Well, you listen to what his mother, his father and his brother -- I`ve spoken to all three -- will tell you. And they will say exactly -- that is exactly what happened here, that Tyler Clementi felt so violated and was so internally dealing with so much, he had no place to turn. And so he ended up taking his own life.
But we should point out that Dharun Ravi is not charged with the death of Tyler Clementi. As you know, he`s charged with bias intimidation, witness tampering, all sorts of other charges, but not with the death...
CASAREZ: Jason!
CARROLL: ... of Tyler Clementi. But having said that...
GRACE: Wasn`t the sentence...
CARROLL: ... his family -- let me finish! Having said that...
GRACE: ... a possible 10 years?
CARROLL: ... his family believes that this is exactly what happened. Sorry. Go ahead.
GRACE: I appreciate that, although that`s not the question I asked you. I asked you about what happened. What was proved at trial, Jason? I appreciate, as a crime victim of violent crime myself, what the family feels and what they want. I`m sure that they agree with me, as I have heard them say.
My question is, at trial, what was proved? Joining me now, Michael Christian, legal -- today working as legal correspondent. He is a long- time producer for "In Session" formerly Court TV. Michael Christian, you`ve been right there with Jason Carroll throughout the entire trial.
Also, Jean Casarez joining us. Jean, what came out at trial? Jean joining us from the field.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, I sat in that courtroom. I know the facts of this case. And there were texts, there were e-mails, there were instant messages that showed the state of mind of the defendant continually.
He invited everybody to watch his roommate as he had a male companion come to his room. He encouraged people to watch. He sent it on the World Wide Web so people would watch. And he also made comments like, We got to keep the gays away.
This was bias intimidation. This was bullying. But now every bully out there that wants to do something to somebody else, why not? Why not go ahead and do it? You really aren`t penalized for it, are you, Nancy?
GRACE: You know, Jean, I`m just thinking of my own son and my own daughter, Jean. And you`ve been with me from the beginning, since when they were born Jean. Can you imagine, all the love, all the hopes that we have put into those two children, and to have someone, when you finally get -- you save everything, you work double time to put them in this nice university, better than what you may have had, trying to help them have a better life, and this is what happened!
Jean, I want to take it from the very top, back August 6th. Remember that? August 6th, incoming freshmen flooded into Rutgers University. What happened, Jean?
CASAREZ: Dharun Ravi started researching Tyler Clementi constantly to find out information about him. He believed through his research he was gay. So he had a state of mind going in, even before he ever met him, of his sexual orientation and a bit about him.
Once they had been in that room together -- and it wasn`t two weeks, Nancy -- he took his Webcam that was on his desk and he positioned it to Tyler Clementi`s bed. And then he broadcast to everybody he could, Join the party. Join the party. Watch my roommate as he has a male companion come in.
But we also know that Tyler Clementi saw a green light. He saw a camera that was positioned to him. He was so upset about it that he wrote to his resident adviser, wanting to change the room.
And the jury heard a lot of that evidence of Tyler Clementi`s state of mind, that he knew what his roommate was trying to do to him.
GRACE: So when you say that he set this up to be broadcast on the World Wide Web, how did he do it, Jean? How do you do something like that?
CASAREZ: It was never broadcast. But what it was, is the viewing party could watch it simultaneously live, as it happened. That was the first time. And people did watch it. Now, they testified, Oh, I turned it off in a couple of seconds. I couldn`t watch it.
Do we really know the truth? No, but that`s invasion of privacy. But what made this mandatory prison time was the bias intimidation.
GRACE: Joining me right now, in addition to Jason Carroll, CNN correspondent, and Jean Casarez joining us in the field, Michael Christian is with us.
Michael, you and I have gone to cover -- I`ve tried a lot of cases. But this particular crime victim really broke my heart. This young boy -- I mean, Michael, you know how I feel about John David and Lucy, my twins. To think that you would send your son off to somewhere like Rutgers -- you know, what -- people would dream of going to a fine institution like that - - thinking you`re doing the best you can for him, and now this happened.
You were there in the courtroom, Michael. How did his family respond? How did they respond to the guilty verdict and then this sentence? What was this judge thinking, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SR. FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, they clearly are not happy with this. I think this was a surprise to everyone.
It was interesting, Nancy, because when the judge started -- Judge Glenn Berman -- when started his actual sentencing, when he was talking to Mr. Ravi, I thought he was going to throw the book at him. He said, I`ve never once heard you apologize. And I thought, Oh, boy, here it comes.
So the 30 days I think was a shock to everyone. You know, we saw Mrs. Ravi, Dharun Ravi`s mother, sobbing in that courtroom after that sentence. I have to think she was sobbing out of relief because I don`t think anybody expected just 30 days. I just don`t think anybody saw it coming.
GRACE: Michael, you have heard all the evidence. We went through some of it with Jean Casarez. Tell me the evidence as you know it.
CHRISTIAN: Well, you know, we have, obviously, knowledge that Dharun Ravi had his Webcam set up and that he purposefully tried to watch Tyler Clementi, his roommate, and this mysterious "M.B." having sex, or at least watching them together, knowing that they were in there, knowing what was going on. There`s no question about that.
GRACE: I don`t get it, Michael!
CHRISTIAN: The question, obviously, is...
GRACE: I mean, he comes to this country, Michael...
CHRISTIAN: You know, Ravi said that he did that because he was afraid things were going to be stolen, but that doesn`t -- that doesn`t make any sense.
CHRISTIAN: That`s not what he said to everyone he invited to watch it. That`s what he said to all his friends that invited...
CHRISTIAN: Right. Right.
GRACE: ... to watch what was happening. And this is another thing, Michael Christian. Look, I come from a long, long line of immigrants who came to this country to try to make a living, all right? But here comes this guy to our country just to use the higher education system.
Then he looks up his roommate, his roommate to be there at Rutgers. He already develops this intense dislike for him and now sets up this camera and watches him having sex to humiliate him on campus? He had only been there a couple of weeks. Now the boy is dead?
What about deportation? I want this guy out of here. I want him back in India!
CHRISTIAN: You know, it was fascinating, Nancy, because when Mrs. Clementi made her statement before the sentencing, she recalled the day that she and her husband and Tyler first came to see his new dorm room. And she said that, you know, they came in and they set up and then they left.
And finally, Mr. Ravi came in with his parents, and she said there was absolutely no interaction from Dharun Ravi, that Mr. Ravi`s parents spoke to the Clementis and said hello, but that, really, they just got nothing out of Dharun Ravi. He just basically sat down at his desk and he was using his computer.
And the impression I got from that was that by that point, Dharun Ravi had already written off Tyler Clementi. As you say, he`d done some research. He knew his background. He suspected that he was gay, and I think he just had written him off.
GRACE: And now -- and now -- this teen boy is dead!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you violate this man`s privacy?
RAVI: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cyber-bullying case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does that accurately depict your recollection of room 30?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Webcam?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A case of using a Webcam to broadcast his roommate`s encounter with another man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly, he posted this FaceBook message just before he took his life. Quote, "Jumping off the GW Bridge. Sorry."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dharun Ravi sentenced to 30 days?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are live. At this hour, an outrage. After a teen boy is found drowned to death there in the Hudson River, the defendant on trial for tormenting him endlessly, mercilessly to the point where this man right here on trail, India-born Ravi, Dharun Ravi, gets just 30 days in the county jail?
We are taking your calls. I`m going to Dave Mack, morning talk show host, WAAX Clear Channel. Dave, weigh in.
DAVE MACK, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX: Nancy, it`s so disgusting and despicable that this guy`s getting 30 days. It makes me want to puke.
Here`s the scoop. It happened twice. You know, the first time, Ravi and his girlfriend go back and they`re watching it and he posts some stuff on there about watched him making out with a dude.
And then he set it up for another night, on the 21st. And that was when he really sent out the iChat and said, Anybody with iChat, check this out. And had 150 Twitter followers and he encouraged them all to watch it, as well.
Thing was, that night, Tyler saw the videocamera was on on that computer and he pulled the power strip on it. It was after that that Tyler asked for a room by himself. And then the next day, he jumped off the GW.
GRACE: So back to you, Michael Christian, joining us there at the courthouse. Michael Christian, I mean, how can you say with that kind of evidence that Dave Mack just pointed out -- how can you possibly say with a straight face that Ravi sets up this Internet camera to catch someone stealing his stuff?
I mean, he asked people to join in watching his roommate have sex. Now his roommate is dead!
CHRISTIAN: He also apparently told police that he was the one who had taken the Webcam down, Nancy, that he had disassembled it or unplugged it, when we know that Tyler Clementi, or "M.B.," his guest, had turned it around so that it was facing the wall. So he didn`t do that, either. It`s just very interesting.
And the judge, again, when he was addressing Dharun Ravi before he actually sentenced him, he talked about that. He talked about him lying, lying to authorities, and how important that was. And then he went on to give him 30 days. So the connect (ph) just doesn`t really seem to be there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s been some emotional testimony from Tyler Clementi`s family today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never really knew Tyler, the talented, caring, thoughtful, generous, trustworthy and dependable person Tyler was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Ravi was convicted of intimidation and invasion of privacy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This individual was not convicted of a hate crime, he was convicted of a bias crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ravi did these criminal acts because he saw my son as not deserving basic human decency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. An outrage at this hour. This young man that you see took his own life after merciless taunting, merciless gibes by his new roommate at a prestigious university. That man, India-born Ravi, Dharun Ravi, just sentenced to only 30 days behind bars.
We are taking your calls. Joining me right now, special guest Larry Fishelson, telecommunications expert, co-founder of Dynalink (ph) Communications. Larry, how is this Webcam set up? How did this happen?
LARRY FISHELSON, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Well, Nancy, what he did was he set up the Webcam, which was looking at -- at, you know, what happened here. But the way that they -- the way that he set it up was you can go ahead remotely and dial in through the Webcam, which you can do anything Web-based through the cloud, which is all the information stored on a server. So he went ahead and remotely got into his computer, posted a hyperlink out there which let everybody in the world go ahead and see it.
So it could happen to anybody. But what`s terrible here is that, you know, it was a tragedy on what was done. And it was not done for security purposes, as they tried to claim, because we saw through the text messages, the instant messages, exactly what was happened (SIC) here. So there was no way around it. All the evidence here was shown through technology, which the police found.
GRACE: Now, when you say the technology, how is it that you set up such a thing, that you can invite viewers to watch a live streaming, like you can invite Twitter viewers, Twitter -- friends on Twitter, friends on FaceBook, friends on line to watch live streaming? How do you set it up?
What I`m trying to get at, Larry Fishelson, is the frame of mind, the degree of planning the defendant put into this.
FISHELSON: Yes, unfortunately, in this case, it`s very easy to do. And this was a real sick frame of mind. Very simply, all he had to was remotely dial into his computer and set up the hyperlink, where the hyperlink is the application coming from the Webcam and the computer. And all you do is send it out to whoever you want and they can see it live.
Now, you can do that with anything. Now, it`s supposed to be used the right way for security purposes, or on many Web sites, you know, if people want to see special things and items and -- and -- of that sort.
But this was strategically used 100 percent for the wrong way. So you`re taking something that`s supposed to be used properly and just sending it out to the world. And it`s a tragedy what happened here through this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Emotions are running high in a New Jersey courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Serve as part of a probationary sentence with other conditions I`ll articulate.
JANE CLEMENTI, TYLER CLEMENTI`S MOTHER: Smart, kind, articulate --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 30-day jail term.
JANE CLEMENTI: Humble, funny, talented --
JOE CLEMENTI, TYLER CLEMENTI`S FATHER: Dharun Ravi still does not get it. He has no remorse --
JAMES CLEMENT, TYLER CLEMENTI`S BROTHER: My family has never heard an apology and acknowledgment of any wrongdoing.
JANE CLEMENTI: Caring, thoughtful, generous, trustworthy, and dependable person.
JAMES CLEMENTI: The opportunity to tell him how much I love him and how important he is to me and to this world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. The jury hands down a verdict of guilty. Guilty in the case of this young teen who heads off to Rutgers University to study a higher education. His parents sacrificing and saving their entire lives to send him to college. Only there, he meets a roommate. A roommate from India, Dharun Ravi, who then proceeds to launch a tirade of jives, mocking, humiliation, ending in a live broadcast, streaming broadcast, watching the roommate during his first sexual encounter with a man there in his dorm room.
The teen commits suicide, taking his own life following the humiliation of the live broadcast.
After a jury brings down the hammer, the judge sentences him to only 30 days in the county jail. That is what the teen`s life was worth. With a possible sentence of 10 years behind bars, this is making a mockery of the justice system.
Joining me right now, activist James Duke Mason.
James, thank you for being with us. I`m stunned at the sentence.
JAMES DUKE MASON, GAY RIGHTS ADVOCATE (via phone): I absolutely agree with you, Nancy. And I may not be a judge so I don`t know exactly how long this guy`s sentence should have been, but I can tell you the ruling that came down today is nowhere near what it should have been.
And you know, referring to what you were just talking about before, I think you`re absolutely right that someone like this should be deported from this country because I don`t think that someone who comes here and discriminates against American citizens should be allowed to remain in the country. Doesn`t make any sense to me.
GRACE: And James Duke Mason is joining us, activist. The thing is this, James, I don`t care who the victim is. I don`t care if he is Caucasian, African-American, I don`t care if he`s gay, I don`t care if he`s straight. I don`t care if he`s green from Mars. What he endured and the humiliation was uncalled for. It was wrong.
And again, the sentence -- you say you`re not a judge, well, you can read, right? The criminal statute says up to 10 years for this crime. The crime the jury convicted on. What would the outcome have been, James, if the victim had been a female? A young teen girl that had had a live Webcast of her first sex encounter ever, there in her dorm room, sent out to god knows who to watch live. Everybody sitting around laughing, watching live. And then she killed herself.
Would the sentence have been different, do you think, James? I do.
MASON: I don`t know. I mean I absolutely think that it must have something to do with it, and I think that, you know -- I think there`s no question this was a hate crime and that, you know, I think that, you know, a lot of people say well, this wasn`t such a horrible thing that happened to Tyler. There must have been some other thing that led to his suicide. Well, I think there`s something pretty severe about having your sex life broadcast to the entire world.
I think that for a young, gay teen who`s already insecure and already feeling discriminated against them, there`s no question that this was premeditated. That this was --
GRACE: Well, I`ve got a question. I`ve got a question, James.
I`m going to throw this to Michael Christian, who has been in the courtroom from day one. Had the teen, Tyler Clementi, had he told his parents yet that he was gay? Was he -- was he unsure himself? Was this public knowledge or through this cruel act was he outed?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, IN SESSION: It depends on what you mean by public knowledge. My understanding is he had not told his parents or his family, but he was out enough, Nancy, that apparently he was chatting and corresponding on gay oriented Web sites, and that`s how he linked up with M.B., the witness that he was with on those occasions in his dorm room.
So I guess you could say he was out in his own crowd, but we don`t believe he told his family yet about his gayness.
GRACE: You know, Michael, so the reality is that the way his family finds out he`s gay is that they find out about his dead body in the Hudson River. That`s how they find out. Thanks to the roommate.
CHRISTIAN: Yes, that`s true.
GRACE: Dharun Ravi.
All right. Unleash the lawyers. Jennifer Smetters, family law attorney, Chicago, Holly Hughes, defense attorney, Atlanta. Darryl Cohen, defense attorney, Atlanta.
You know, Darryl, I recall one of the first hate crimes I ever came in contact with was a serial murder who murdered gay guys. And I was upholding a conviction on appeal before the Georgia Supreme Court. And I had never even heard of hate crime. I had never realized how deep that insane hatred could be.
I`m stunned at the 30 days, Darryl. I mean I know you`re a defense attorney, and it`s your job to defend regardless of what the crime may be. Your duty is to do the best you can for your client and not get thrown on the bar, in the doing.
I want to hear your response. Are you surprised at the sentence?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I`m surprised by the sentence that it was 30 days. It should have been a far less sentence. There was opportunity for him to plead guilty, say I`m sorry, and he would have had probation. What we`re taking is a horrible tragedy. We`re taking a college prank that exploded --
GRACE: A college prank?
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: That`s exactly what it was. We don`t need to ruin everybody`s life because of it. He should have said, I`m sorry. This lawyering is something that I question, why in the world didn`t his lawyers say to him, say, I`m sorry?
GRACE: How old are your girls?
COHEN: Peace. They`re 10, 12 and almost --
GRACE: How old?
COHEN: Ten, 12 and almost 18.
GRACE: I`ll get back with you when they are in college. See how you would feel if this had happened to one of them. I mean I`m not even going to put the thought out there. But for their -- this boy`s parents to find out that he is gay by the call that he`s dead -- all right, Holly Hughes.
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I agree with Darryl. This was not as much a bias crime as it was stupidity, idiocy.
GRACE: Really? That`s not what the jury said, Holly.
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: It`s what the judge called it. It`s an incredibly insensitive act.
GRACE: But that`s not what the jury said.
HUGHES: OK, but the jury wasn`t responsible for sentencing, Nancy.
GRACE: I don`t care what the judge said.
HUGHES: But you do, because you`re all worked up about this sentence that the judge handed down. The judge sat through that trial, too. He heard every bit of evidence. And what he said was, I don`t think that there was a hate crime here. The jury did return on bias. But I think it was insensitivity and stupidity. And to send him to prison isn`t going to change anything. Much has been mentioned that Dharun Ravi knew Tyler Clementi might be gay before he became his roommate.
But Dharun Ravi, if he really hated gay people, would not have been the roommate. He would have been the one putting for a transfer. He would have been the one saying, I will not room with him. Let`s think about a skin head or a Nazi or in fact they would not room with someone that -- was on their hate list.
GRACE: Michael Christian standing by there at the courthouse. You have been in the trial every single day. Is Holly correct? Could he have this -- changed roommates have -- moved out?
CHRISTIAN: I don`t know how easy it is to change but we certainly know that Tyler Clementi had talked to his R.A., and inquired about changing. So there`s obviously a process for it. The point is, they never got to that point. This happened so quickly. It was three weeks. And by the time the R.A. and the university would have even really addressed it, Tyler Clementi was dead.
GRACE: Joining me now, Jennifer Smetters, joining us out of Chicago.
Jennifer, let`s hear your analysis.
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: You know, if the judge uses the word bias, and I`m going to -- I`m going to say here, Nancy, is I think we got a little insight, perhaps, into the judge`s own personal feeling by saying there was no reason for Ravi to hate here. When all we saw was, that this judge, supplanting, some maybe personal feelings in favor of a box of pardons he talked about in his statement, in favor of Ravi, a convicted, manipulative liar who made it a mission to humiliate an innocent person because he found salacious details to be exciting to him?
Is that what we are looking at here? I find it really, really disturbing when we have an innocent life that`s been devastated. Tyler`s life, as he knew it, possibly be in the future, was ruined. And we have a judge supplanting his opinion for, instead of listening to the jury and taking that into consideration.
GRACE: And as a matter of fact, Jennifer, this was a quote from the judge. The judge said, I heard this jury say guilty 288 times. And I haven`t heard you apologize once, as if an I`m sorry would do the trick."
SMETTERS: Remorseless or not, and I`m sorry, will not bring comfort to the parents of Tyler. And it won`t make up for the facts that Ravi had a history. The evidence showed of targeting, of manipulating, of making this a priority. That is outing and humiliating this young man, his roommate. It`s unfortunate all around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Heart wrenching cyber bullying case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Allegedly he posted this Facebook message just before he took his life. Quote, "jumping off the GW bridge, sorry," end quote. Roommate asked for room until midnight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I went into Molly`s room and I turned on my Webcam from there and I saw him making out with some dude.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ravi will report a 30-day jail term. Thirty- day jail term. Thirty-day jail term.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you violate this man`s privacy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This individual was not convicted of a hate crime, he`s convicted of a bias crime. I say that because I do not believe he hated Tyler Clementi. I do believe he acted out of colossal insensitivity.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Emotions are running high in a New Jersey courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Served as part of a probationary sentence with other conditions I`ll articulate, a 30-day jail term. A 30-day jail term.
JOE CLEMENTI: Ravi still does not get it. He has no remorse.
JAMES CLEMENTI: My family has never heard an apology, any acknowledgement of any wrongdoing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Emotional testimony from Tyler Clementi`s family.
JANE CLEMENTI: Listening to the lies in the sentencing of the defendant.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dharun Ravi used a Web cam to spy on a roommate, Tyler Clementi.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tyler Clementi, we know, killed himself. He was convicted of intimidation, invasion of privacy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon and pathologist.
Dr. Lloyd, thank you for being with us. I can only imagine this young teen, Tyler Clementi`s state of mind when he thought it was better to drown to death than suffer the humiliation heaped on him by his brand-new Rutgers University roommate.
DR. BILL LLOYD, BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, suicide is the act of ultimate desperation. It was clear that Tyler had nowhere else to go, no one else to talk to, no one to help him solve his problem. His only solution was to take his own life.
Let me end this next real thought here. This man, Mr. Ravi, has his mommy make a statement before the judge and before the jury regarding his involvement and to anyone who tries to distance Ravi from the death of Clementi, remember this once central fact.
If Clementi had a room to himself or if he`d had a different roommate, Nancy, the odds are, the young man would still be alive today.
GRACE: Doctor Lloyd, what did he endure physically in a drowning death?
LLOYD: He didn`t have time to die, Nancy, from drowning. The impact took him away.
GRACE: When you say that, please explain to the viewers.
LLOYD: Crossing the George Washington Bridge at a height of 300 feet, he struck the water at terminal velocity, greater than 62 feet per second, his neck was snapped immediately.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Dr. Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist.
Leslie, let`s take some calls. Corine in California. Hi, Corine, what`s your question?
CORINE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I love you. I just wanted to tell you that first.
GRACE: Thank you.
CORINE: My question is, nobody has said anything about the deportation. They didn`t get into that whatsoever. I wonder why?
GRACE: OK. To Wendy Whitman, contributor, Wendy, the judge had mentioned about deportation, that he was advising against it because someone in victim impact statement, and certainly not the victim in this case, he`s dead, mentioned that he didn`t think the perp should be deported. Well, that means nothing in this scenario. What is the likelihood that he could be deported and what is your analysis of the facts, Wendy?
WENDY WHITMAN, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, my take on the whole case is that the severity of any crime should be reflected in theory of the use -- in the severity of the punishment. And if someone`s actions, you could certainly argue in this case, caused someone`s death no matter how he was charged, that 30 days is a slap in the face to the family and a slap on the wrist to the defendant.
And deportation aside, when he was facing potential 10 years, don`t forget, initially, when he was charged in this case, I think many, many people felt he was undercharged. They expected he can manslaughter or a second degree murder charge on this because of the intent. There appeared there was intent.
GRACE: You know what, Wendy? You and I have talked about it many, many times. The world is screaming stop cyber bullying, stop cyber bullying. Let`s do something, let`s pass laws, let`s have a -- have a protest, let`s have a vigil. Well, you know what? That all amounts to a hill of beans when a judge like Glenn Berman gives a slap on the wrist for what should have been a 10-year sentence, Wendy.
WHITMAN: And I also think the judge basically disregarded the verdict of the jury because they found him guilty on all counts. And I think he disregarded the victim in that statement and unfortunately, from what I`ve seen in all my years of covering trials, I think most families be very frustrated from the results of trials whether it`s the jury or the judge.
GRACE: Joining me right now, clinical psychologist, Leslie Seppinni.
Weigh in, Dr. Seppinni.
LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, it really shows that this judge in epic proportion has his own bias. And anyone to say that this is not a hate crime has to be totally socially ignorant. The thing is my blood is boiling right now just listening to these attorneys and to people who think he should have gotten lesser of a charge.
I believe he should be deported. He`s here on a student visa. No school should take him here in this country. He came here, he spit on the school, he spit on this family and he spit on our country.
GRACE: You know, and to think that he could now come back and study in the U.S. after this stunt?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. Out to Angie, Pennsylvania. Hi, Angie. What`s your question?
ANGIE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. So great to talk to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
ANGIE: My question is, I`d like to know how the judge came to this decision? If you`re guilty on 15 counts and you end up with 30 days, where I come from, you can get 30 days for nonpayment of a fine. I mean, I think it`s a travesty. It`s just pretty much saying that this guy`s life isn`t worth anything. That --
GRACE: Michael Christian, I agree with Angie in Pennsylvania.
Michael Christian, joining us there at the trial. Weigh in, Michael.
CHRISTIAN: You know, judges have a lot of discretion in some jurisdictions and very little discretion in others. Obviously Judge Berman here had a lot of discretion. He could have given him a lot of years. We were talking about 10 years on some of these felonies. He could have stacked those consecutively if you wanted to. We could have been talking about decades here in prison. He did not go that way. That was his discretion and he has a right in this jurisdiction in New Jersey to do that.
GRACE: Well, you know what, Michael Christian, I have the right to go stand in front of the state capitol and burn the American flag, don`t I? I can do that under my freedom of speech, but I don`t. I don`t. And I don`t think what the judge did, although he could do it, that doesn`t make it right, Michael Christian.
Melissa in Illinois. Hi, Melissa, what`s your question?
MELISSA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: I`m just appalled that there are not any laws that would allow this man, the judge, to let this man go free. This wouldn`t include being deported because I thought that if you committed a crime in the state of the United States -- in the United States, and you were an alien, you know, here on some sort of a visa, student or not, that you got deported.
GRACE: You know what, I agree, Michael. What`s the deal? Why isn`t IMS right there dragging him off?
CHRISTIAN: You know what`s so fascinating about this whole thing is that was what a lot of people thought why he didn`t take a plea deal was because of this fear of deportation. But then we found out that the state said as part of the plea deal they would help him with the INS to try and avoid deportation if he took a plea and he still declined.
So it doesn`t really make any sense but it looks like the chances of him with this sentence being deported are much less than they would have been obviously if it was a younger sentence.
GRACE: And there you have it. The state of justice tonight in America.
Let`s stop and remember army specialist Stephen R. Fortunato, 25, Denvers, Massachusetts, killed Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service medal. Loved video games, writing, drawing. Leaves behind gold star mother Elizabeth, brothers Joseph and Anthony, widow, Sherry.
Stephen R. Fortunato, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Stay tuned for "Dr. Drew" coming up.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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