Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Man Shoots Pregnant Wife to Hide Affair; Deadly Love Triangle

Aired June 05, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: And breaking news tonight, as we go live to the heartland in Iowa. A young husband takes a shower at 5:00 AM when he suddenly hears a loud noise and runs off to find his pregnant wife shot in the couple`s bedroom. Cops arrive to find no evidence of an intruder, then make a stunning discovery, a 12-gauge shotgun hidden in tall grass outside the home and a suspicious pre-paid cell phone.

Undercover surveillance leads cops straight to the prime suspect after he`s caught searching for the hidden gun. Who? The husband. Cops say the newlywed wanted his pregnant wife dead so he could run off with his mistress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seth Techel calls 911 in the early morning hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saying he came out of the shower to find that his wife had been shot and she wasn`t breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After hearing a loud noise, he comes out to find wife Lisa Techel shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lisa 17 weeks pregnant when she was killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the shooter wasn`t a stranger. It was the husband!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seth Andrew Techel, murder of Lisa Marie Techel and her unborn child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A shotgun recovered near the Techel home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say they discover a pre-paid cell phone the husband allegedly used to carry on an affair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Admitted to cheating on his wife nearly the entire seven months they were married.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the husband told the mistress it will all be better in a couple weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And good evening, everybody. I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

A pregnant newlywed found shot to death in her Iowa home. Was a secret love affair motive for murder?

Let`s go straight to Michael Board. He`s a reporter with WOAI Newsradio. Michael, tell us what happened. Take us through the timeline.

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Yes, just a tragic end to a life that was spent, you know, for the most part, serving her community. Lisa Techel was only 23 years old, but she spent most of her adult life serving as a guard at the jail. She was a reserve deputy in her community. This is a woman who cared about her community.

That all ended in a heartbreaking way with a single blast from a 12- gauge shotgun. And what we`ve learned from police in this case, of all the evidence that police have laid out, her husband, 21-year-old Seth Techel, is dead to rights in this one. They have laid everything out in this case. You know, he was, you know, obviously, you know, not thinking with the right (ph) head (ph) when what went down this morning -- excuse me, what happened on the 26th of May.

COSBY: And you know, the story just gets more and more bizarre. Let`s go to Gary Barrett. He`s an anchor and reporter with WHO radio. Gary, first of all, tell us the alibi that the husband had, which is just such a wild story.

GARY BARRETT, WHO NEWSRADIO (via telephone): Well, he said he was in the shower. He told the police that he was in the shower about 5:00 o`clock in the morning, and he heard a loud boom, which could have been a shotgun. And then he rushed out and found his wife laying in their bedroom dead.

COSBY: And Gary Barrett -- Gary Barrett, I want to ask you, why -- you know, both of these -- you know, Seth and also Lisa, they`re familiar with weapons, right? They seem to be around weapons. They`re in law enforcement?

BARRETT: Yes. They both have law enforcement backgrounds. Seth Techel had been trying to get into law enforcement in the area. He was about a hair`s breadth away from being hired as a jailer in Wapello County, the county where they lived in.

And Lisa, her father was a deputy sheriff, and she was also a jailer in Washington County, about 45 miles away, and was a reserve deputy in Wapello County.

COSBY: And so Gary Barrett, we hear there`s this loud sound. Any signs of an intruder? Anybody breaking in? Anything stolen?

BARRETT: Absolutely not. Police say that there was absolutely no sign of any break-in at all and they didn`t find any kind of, you know, door forced open or anything else like that.

COSBY: And Michael Board, reporter with WOAI radio, I`m sure the first thing they did -- OK, who would have something against Lisa? Here it is, this beautiful woman married just seven months. She`s 17 weeks pregnant. You know, this is a mother-to-be and a beautiful woman. Did she have any enemies?

BOARD: Well, there was another man living in this home recently. In fact, the shotgun that police believe was used to kill this beautiful 23- year-old girl belonged to this former roommate. He moved out a few weeks ago.

What he told police -- what we`re hearing from police is he moved out because he had a medical problem. He does have an alibi, though, in this case. He was at a different home. Police have checked out his alibi. He was not around the area when this shooting happened. He is in the clear.

COSBY: Now, what I find so fascinating -- you talk about -- it`s this guy`s gun. He`s living in the house. It`s a newlywed couple. I don`t know if I`d want a housemate for a long time, but that`s a whole other story there, Michael. But first of all, the funny thing, and I think the thing that is really troublesome for this husband -- what does he do in terms of looking for the gun?

BOARD: You know, it`s -- this is where this gets, you know, so unbelievably stupid, how someone could do this. After he was taken -- after Seth was taken in for questioning, police released him. He went back home, which is pretty normal. That`s what you would do after you`ve just been questioned by police. He went back home.

The police in this case were very smart. They had somebody watching the home when he went back home. This is what we`ve been told by police, is that they watched him. When he went back home, he went outside of his home and looked in this high, grassy area, which is exactly where the police found the murder weapon in this case, the shotgun.

So why else would he be going out there to the grass, looking for that shotgun, if he didn`t know it was out there? He now knows -- he knows he`s dead to rights on this. He knows the cops have that shotgun. You know, he`s pled not guilty in this case, but you know, he knows what`s coming down the pike.

COSBY: Yes, I mean, this just looks terrible. The other thing -- and Gary Barrett, I got to ask you that, anchor and reporter with WHO Newsradio. The other thing -- not only does he go look for it and cops are surveilling, they see him -- the other thing -- he says something to deputies the next day, like, Were you looking at my house?

BARRETT: Yes, he asked them, he said, Did you find the shotgun? And of course, they had. They hadn`t told him at that point, but they asked him if he -- if they had gone looking for the shotgun earlier. So he knows that they -- at that point, he knows that they know.

COSBY: And Gary Barrett, describe this tall, wooded area where the shotgun is found. It`s a good place to hide something, although a pretty stupid move because what, it`s 90 feet from his house or something?

BARRETT: Yes, it`s only 90 feet from the house, and they had a real clear view of it from the trees behind the neighbor`s house. So they could watch him really easily when he and his father both showed up and they were looking around in that area, obviously to try to find the gun. And then they couldn`t find it and took off.

COSBY: Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, this is a guy -- now he`s -- you know, he`s been arrested in this case. They`re holding him now behind bars. He is the key suspect. They say they feel very confident.

And yet this is a guy who -- you know, OK, the gun -- if, indeed, he did it, the gun is found 90 feet from his house. He`s walking the next day. They`re catching him. He`s thinking -- he`s a law enforcement guy. Doesn`t he think he`s being watched? And then he has the, you know, I don`t know, audacity or stupidity to be asking cops, Hey, were you looking at my house? Were you surveilling me, basically?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, the extreme stupidity shown here would be laughable if it weren`t tragic. And it`s because he shows such stupidity that he couldn`t think of a better way to get out of a marriage that was troubling him than killing his wife.

I mean, it is really tragic, the lack of thinking and responsibility here on his part. And then to be so stupid in all of his moves. I can`t believe he was even considered for anything vaguely related to law enforcement. I don`t know how that could have happened.

COSBY: It is shocking. Let`s go to Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, Florida. I understand you got a gun with you, too, sort of similar to this 12-gauge shotgun that was used, right?

ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: Absolutely. What I have in my hand is a 12-gauge pump shotgun. It`s not the Mossberg that was indicated as being the weapon used, but it`s very similar.

It`s an extremely powerful weapon. It`s deadly at close range. It`s deadly at far range. But the point being is, is that once you`re struck by a shotgun slug, which I believe the victim was, it`s not even survivable. It is such a powerful bullet that comes out. It`s almost equating to about a .50 to .55-caliber bullet. And once it comes out, it does massive damage.

COSBY: What is the difference, also -- describe for all of us watching here the slug. What`s sort of the difference between that and something that sort of sprays bullets? This is much more lethal, and they say that they found a single slug in beautiful Lisa Techel.

SCOTT: That`s correct. What I have in my right hand is a shotgun slug. Obviously, it`s not expended. It`s a cartridge. And you can see that it is a very large bullet, and that once it comes out -- I mean, a shotgun is an extremely powerful, deadly weapon. And if you are shot with a slug, it is going to be deadly.

There are other types of shotgun cartridges that are pellets, different sized, from buckshot to bird pellets. And in either case, regardless of the type of cartridge you use, if you shoot somebody with a shotgun cartridge, whether it`s a slug as I have or pellets of buckshot, you`re going to be in serious injuries, and in particular if it`s close range.

COSBY: And Andrew Scott, how easy is it to find for authorities? Here it`s 90 feet away from the house. It is tall grass, but it sounds like they found it pretty quickly.

SCOTT: Well, it just goes to show you that the police did a very thorough job in the search of not only the crime scene but the outside of the crime scene. And to be able to find this gun is just -- you know, kudos to them for doing a thorough, proper investigation and finding the murder weapon.

And I think some of the behavior patterns of the accused are pretty damming as to what he was doing and why he was doing it.

COSBY: Yes. Anna Sigga Nicolazzi, absolutely damning, don`t you think, as a prosecutor?

ANNA SIGGA NICOLAZZI, PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. I mean, as a prosecutor, you always want to be cautious because it isn`t over until it`s over. Until he either pleads guilty or is found guilty by a juror of his peers, you keep going forward.

But there is just a mountain of evidence against him. You have everything from the gun that we just talked about to the evidence of the affair to him saying to his mistress that in only a couple weeks, things will be better, and lo and behold, his wife is dead.

But to me I think one of the crucial pieces of evidence that is going -- he cannot get away from is going to be that also near that gun, they found a pre-paid cell phone, that when they match it up to the number, presumably, it`s going to come back to the mistress, which I assume is how they found her. And that is basically the only number that is used, and she says, Well, the only person I spoke to on that phone was the defendant.

You know, how does he get away from that? And I just don`t know how.

COSBY: I don`t know, either. And Michael Board, reporter, WOAI radio, the mistress -- what I just find so disgusting about this case, I mean, aside from, OK, the gun`s 90 feet from his house, the story, I`m in the shower at 5:00 AM, he`s got a mistress. Now the cops have confirmed it -- first he lied about it, then admits it. It turns out the mistress -- he`s been with her since, guess what? October 2011. Guess when he got married? October 2011. It`s disgusting!

BOARD: You know, sometimes guys think with the wrong head. This must be one of those cases because there`s no other explanation for...

COSBY: Is that the excuse, Mike? Come on! Give me a break!

BOARD: (INAUDIBLE) I can think of. That`s the only (INAUDIBLE) of how stupid this case was. You know, like you said, can`t you think of any other better way?

COSBY: Right. He`s married. She`s pregnant. You come up with some story you`re in the shower. You leave the gun. I mean, it just -- it is so preposterous. It sounds like, though, the girlfriend is cooperating, correct?

BOARD: Yes. Yes, she is. She is cooperating with the police. But you know, they don`t really need her. You know, they have so much other evidence in this case, you know, that they don`t need to bring her in. You know, they could throw her on top.

Let`s get some of the groundwork down here. This charge that he`s facing -- the charge that Seth Techel is facing is first-degree murder. Police are also charging him with something else that`s called nonconsensual termination of human pregnancy. Lisa was pregnant at this time.

But in the case, when it gets down to the court case, and you know, if he is found guilty, what the sentence could be -- first-degree murder trumps in this case. That is the most serious crime that Seth Techel is accused of. If he is found guilty of this -- you know, this is America, he`s got to be found guilty. If he is found guilty in Iowa of first-degree murder, that would be life in prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seth Techel calls 911 to report his pregnant wife had been shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say there was no indication that another person was in the home at the time of the murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Techel has been charged with murder in the first degree and nonconsensual termination of a human pregnancy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Well, Seth Techel was married to his wife for guess what? Seven months. And it sounds like now he was cheating on her for all seven months. And now he`s accused of also murdering her with a single gunshot to her head.

Let`s continue with this story. We`re also taking your calls. Everybody, feel free to give us a call, also get in touch with us on Facebook. We`d love to hear from you.

Let`s go back to Gary Barrett. He`s an anchor/reporter with WHO Newsradio. Gary, I want to ask about tracking this, quote, "secret" affair. I just think it`s so shameful. They were married, it sounds like, the same amount of time. Sounds like he met his, you know, alleged girlfriend -- who knows, maybe he met her on the honeymoon.

But track us -- walk us through how they tracked the secret affair.

BARRETT: Well, again, it goes back to that Trac phone, the phone that they discovered in his vehicle. They found it in Seth`s car. And they were able to track that back through the cell phone number, and they just basically confronted the -- his lover and asked her, you know, What`s going on here? That`s when she admitted flat out that she had a relationship with him and basically has been giving them all the information that they need so far.

COSBY: And Gary, walk us through the texts. I know there`s a couple things. First she says that he told her a few weeks before this, Things are going to get better in a couple weeks. And then she says -- this is the girlfriend who`s now cooperating with authorities -- she says the day before, he says that Lisa is, quote, "mad and sad," right?

BARRETT: Right. And she thought that meant that Seth had told his wife he wasn`t happy with the marriage. And then she says that Seth told his lover that Lisa wanted him to be home when she got home from work on the 25th of May so that she could pack.

One of the things that wasn`t in the actual affidavit, but I did discover, is that Seth actually -- Seth`s father owned the house. Neither of them did.

COSBY: Let`s go to Tony from Virginia, who`s on the line. Tony, what`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a quick comment and everything. I`m -- and a question. I`m a big fan of yours. I loved your book about your dad.

COSBY: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is he doing?

COSBY: Oh, thank you so much for calling in. And everybody, tonight, I don`t often share my private things. My father is very sick, and please keep him all in your prayers. So thank you, Tony, for calling in. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted -- I just wanted to ask how does someone like this Seth, and all the people you`ve covered -- how are they so stupid to think they`re going to get away with something like this?

COSBY: You know what? It is incredible. Let`s go to Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. That`s a great question from Tony. You know, where do they think they can get away with this?

AUSTIN: You know, it`s a great question, and there is simply no good answer because there are so many other ways to end a marriage, if you`re unhappy, than murder. It`s not an option. And this just -- the stupidity here is beyond belief. There`s no good explanation for how somebody could be thinking like this.

COSBY: Absolutely. Jona from West Virginia, you`re on the line. Jona, what`s your question tonight?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Rita. Thank you and your staff for taking my call. And you do a great job when you`re in here for Nancy. So thank you.

COSBY: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, what is the information on the relationship prior to getting married? I mean, like, some people are together a long time before they get married because -- and were there any signs, like, to her family, or does anybody know? And I`m just asking -- I personally haven`t had a mate that caused any problem like this, but I`m the sibling to two siblings that were murdered separate times, so...

COSBY: Oh, my goodness!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and my heart goes out to their -- to their family...

COSBY: Jona, our prayers are with you. Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. And my prayers for your father.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. A husband who was caught cheating on his wife -- well, now he is accused of murdering her. And guess what? As long as they`ve been married, he`s been cheating, it turns out. And she was also 17 weeks pregnant.

Let`s go back, if we could, to Andrew Scott, former chief of police with Boca Raton, Florida. He`s also president of AGS Consulting.

You`ve got a shotgun similar to what he was using, a 12-gauge like what he was using. What about fingerprints on it? They found the gun, again, 90 feet away from his house. They found the gun. What about fingerprints, residue, those kind of things? What are they checking for, Andrew?

SCOTT: Well, they`re going to be checking for a variety of things. Fingerprints obviously is one of them. And on a shotgun, there are plenty of places where fingerprints can be found. You can find it on the breach area, on the metal part. You can also find it on the stock.

They`re also going to be looking for possible DNA evidence that`s going to be either located on the firearm itself, or in addition, they can find it on the cartridges, if they find any, and try to do DNA testing to match that up to the suspect in this case. So there`s a lot of information that they can glean from the firearm.

Sometimes -- sometimes -- GSR, gunshot residue, can come from a firearm, as well. Shotguns are good for that. And they can find gunshot residue particles on the hands of the suspect.

COSBY: Andrew, what about clothes, too? You know, we haven`t heard - - you know, we know he was in the shower. He claims he was in the shower before she was shot dead. Maybe he took it afterwards. What about clothes, blood stains, residue?

SCOTT: Absolutely. You can find blood stains, blood spatter and also gunshot residue on clothing, as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would want a beautiful pregnant woman dead?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A shotgun was recovered near the Techel home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a degree in criminal justice and psychology. She was a corrections office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her husband admitted to cheating on his wife nearly the entire seven months they were married.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say weeks prior to Lisa`s murder, the husband told the mistress, It will all be better in a couple weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, AUTHOR OF "QUIET HERO": And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. We are taking your calls tonight. Let`s go to Jason from Canada who is on the line.

Jason, what`s your question?

JASON, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi, Rita. How are you tonight?

COSBY: I`m good. How are you? What`s your question, Jason?

JASON: Yes, I just wanted to know, did the mistress have anything to do with the murder?

COSBY: Did she play a role in the murder or do you think it was the motive? What are you asking, Jason?

JASON: Yes, did she play a role in the murder?

COSBY: I haven`t seen any evidence of that.

Let`s go to Michael Board. He`s a reporter with WOAI Radio. Is there a chance that someone may have helped Seth Techel, you know, allegedly kill his wife at this point? Is there any evidence that anyone helped him, girlfriend or anyone?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: It`s a great question the caller brings up because think about this. We know that Seth Techel and this mistress were having lots of conversations back and forth. They were having this illicit love affair, right? Well, what if this mistress planted the idea in his head? What if she said, you need to get this woman out of the way so we can be happy together?

I don`t know if there`s a way to find out if that happened or not, put her on the stand. That would be one way to find out. But if she did that, she would be facing charges in this.

COSBY: Yes, absolutely. And so far we have not heard that she is involved whatsoever, correct?

BOARD: Correct.

COSBY: All right. Let`s go to Debbie from Wisconsin who`s on the line.

Debbie, what`s your question?

DEBBIE, CALLER FROM WISCONSIN: Hi, how are you doing?

COSBY: I`m good.

(CROSSTALK)

DEBBIE: My question -- good. My question is, did they check to see if the roommate had any possible doings in this because his gun was left behind? I mean, I wouldn`t leave my gun behind.

COSBY: Yes, you know what`s so funny, Debbie, that was the first thing when I heard about this story -- let`s go to Gary Barrett.

Gary, has that roommate who lived with them for a long time, they were newlyweds, again, I think that`s such a bizarre thing. He leaves a loaded gun. Hey, by the way, I`m leaving the house but let me leave my loaded gun there with you. That`s a little bizarre.

But, Gary, is there any suspicion that he had any involvement or has he been totally cleared?

GARY BARRETT, ANCHOR/REPORTER, WHO NEWSRADIO: Absolutely not. But first, one thing you have to know is that Seth Techel had demanded that the roommate leave that gun behind. I don`t know whether it was collateral for what he owed or what have you. But he demanded that be left behind and that it be left loaded behind. And as far as the roommate --

COSBY: Wait, wait. He said, he said, hey, leave the gun and can you leave it loaded and can you leave it near the bedroom? I mean it`s just -- it`s such a bizarre thing, don`t you think it, Gary?

BARRETT: It is bizarre but it sounded like it was more of a demand. In other words, like you`re going to leave it and you`re going to leave it with shotgun shells in it so I can use it to protect myself maybe. I don`t know. But that was what he told police, was that he was ordered to leave it behind basically when he moved out. But as far as the old roommate when they interviewed him, he had an immobilizer cast on his left arm, so he -- you know, one of those where it`s propped up and he had been with his parents when the murder took place, so they`ve ruled him out as a suspect.

COSBY: Andrew Scott, I`m sure they are determining cause of death. You know, right now he says I was in the shower conveniently, someone came in. No evidence of an intruder. Can they determine cause of death if, indeed, she was killed that morning as he claims or if maybe the night with before?

ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON, FL.; PRESIDENT, AJS CONSULTING: Well, clearly the medical examiner`s office in addition to crime scene will be able to determine an approximate time of death and it`s very obvious given physiological signs on the body and so forth. So it`s going to be no problem being able to determine a close approximate time of death so it could have -- they`ll be able to determine if it happens sooner than later. So it`s an easy call on their part.

COSBY: And, Andrew, don`t you think they already know? They said that there was that one slug that was used in that gun or that, you know, looked like it had been used or a couple of other new ones in there. Don`t you think ballistics have already matched it if, indeed, there is a match?

SCOTT: If there was the characteristics of the bullet slug to the rifling of the rifle, absolutely. They`d be able to make that determination unless the slug was so deformed after it struck its intended target.

COSBY: Let`s go to Alex Sanchez, defense attorney. You know, how do you defend this guy? You know, I happened to be looking in the same area where the gun was found. I have been asked, are you surveilling the house? There`s quite a bit of interesting stuff here, Alex.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it seems to me that everybody on this show from the psychologist, the ex-police officer, and you seem to have come to the absolute incontrovertible conclusion that this guy is guilty. And I`m not so certain about that. Because what --

COSBY: So what? He just happened to be in the area, Alex? Happened to be --

SANCHEZ: What -- no, but what --

COSBY: Happened to be cheating --

SANCHEZ: What is the evidence, Rita?

COSBY: You know what -- let me tell you one thing.

SANCHEZ: No, Rita. No, no.

COSBY: No, Alex. No, no, no. Let me tell you one thing that I do not like. He lied to cops. The cops asked him right away, do you have another cell phone? Oh, no, I don`t. Guess what, he had a hidden phone. Hey, did you have another gun? Guess what, there was another gun. And that`s the one that was used in the murder.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And what is the link --

COSBY: Got a lot of coincidences, Alex, huh?

SANCHEZ: What was the link, Rita, between him and that gun? Are his fingerprints on that gun? Is his DNA on that gun? Is his hair on the gun? Is his saliva on the gun? And I think it`s irresponsible for the police to announce that they think he`s guilty --

COSBY: Well, they`re just jumping to conclusions?

SANCHEZ: -- before all these tests to convict him.

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY: You know what`s --

SANCHEZ: You brought this test --

COSBY: Alex, I have a question. Do they need a picture of him actually shooting her, is that what you`re asking for? Come on.

SANCHEZ: No. But conduct your forensic examination first before you start making these announcements on national TV.

COSBY: Well, no, you know what, Alex?

SANCHEZ: That this person is guilty.

COSBY: You know what, Alex? You know what, Alex? You seem to think that nobody commits crimes and that this poor woman killed herself.

SANCHEZ: No, no, that`s not true. But I`m not interested --

COSBY: What do you think -- do you think she killed herself?

Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi, let`s go to Anna-Sigga.

SANCHEZ: No, I`m not interested in people convicted on theory.

COSBY: Let -- no -- and I`m not interested in someone who thinks that the poor woman maybe did it herself or something.

Anna-Sigga, when you hear this, you know, and this is overwhelming evidence. It`s like, what, you know, it just happened, happened, happened? You have to believe that there`s all these series of coincidences. And again, look, he has not been convicted. I will say Alex is correct, but it does not look good. If you are a prosecutor you`ve got a pretty good case, right?

ANNA-SIGGA NICOLAZZI, PROSECUTOR: I think you have a very good case. And let`s not forget something, if you talk about forensic evidence all you want, let`s talk about common sense. Let`s put the pieces together. You put all these pieces together, they only show one thing in every which way that we`ve seen it at least so far.

They point right to her husband. Not to anyone else. He is the person that lied. He is the one that had conversations with his mistress two weeks before saying things will be better. He is the one that we now learned demanded that his houseguest or roommate, if you will, leave that gun behind.

Was that his aha moment? And you know, there`s a lot of talk about this guy being stupid and his stupidity, but I look at it as a prosecutor as his extreme arrogance and his self-centeredness thinking of no one but himself and looking at various ways to get what he wants and not thinking about the consequences to anyone, his beloved wife who certainly was not beloved to him. His unborn child, their friends, their family.

This is a guy who was trying to get a law enforcement job in the same county that her father is a sheriff`s deputy. Do you think he wanted to lose that? No. Do you think he wanted to lose whatever prestige that gave him in the community and friends and family by leaving his pregnant wife after only less than a year?

I see not, especially when this is a guy who is willing to get into an affair the same month that he was married. You put these pieces together, the evidence, the lies to law enforcement. I don`t care if we end up with no forensic evidence in this case. Often we don`t and it doesn`t someone is innocent, it just means we don`t have that as a piece of evidence.

You look at what we`re going to have as witness testimony, the physical evidence, and you look at the defendant`s statements, and I think and I hope that he`ll be proven guilty if, in fact, that is the case.

COSBY: Let me go to Mike Belmessieri, he was a Scott Peterson juror, also author of "We, the Jury."

Mike, I covered that case extensively. You know, I thought about Scott Peterson and especially as Anna-Sigga was just using the word, sort of arrogant, sort of thinking they can get away with it. He, of course, was convicted. And he is there in California, will be there a long, long time behind bars.

What is your reaction when you hear this? You served on that trial and you sort of heard ort of similar things.

MIKE BELMESSIERI, SCOTT PETERSON JUROR, AUTHOR, "WE, THE JURY": Yes, I did, Rita. You know -- but, you know, again, the guy is innocent until proven guilty. The police have probable cause to believe that he was involved in the -- in the homicide. You know, they`ve got a lot more evidence that they`re showing, I`m sure. You know, there is -- there does appear to be some arrogance there if he certainly did do it. He`s awfully stupid.

You know there`s two people you don`t mess around with in this world. You don`t mess around with a Marine and you don`t mess around with a cop. Because in either case they`re family and they take it to heart and they`ll nail your hide to the wall if they`ve got something on you. This guy is either absolutely stupid or absolutely innocent, one of the two.

COSBY: Yes, Carmen St. George, defense attorney, what`s your reaction as you`re hearing all of this?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Rita, look, I can`t disagree, this case is much like Scott Peterson as well as Jason Young`s case in North Carolina that was recently tried. The defense attorneys will try to play on the heartstrings of the jury if this case is brought to trial. They will try to get the jurors to maybe believe that he was irresponsible, he might be a partier, he might have wanted out of this marriage, but lo and behold --

COSBY: Hey, guess what, Carmen?

ST. GEORGE: -- there might be somebody they`re trying to frame.

COSBY: Carmen, get a divorce. You know?

ST. CARMEN: Exactly. I don`t disagree with you, Rita.

COSBY: I mean there`s a lot of (INAUDIBLE). It`s appalling.

ST. CARMEN: Look, as a young -- as a young mother, Rita, myself -- I just recently had a baby. Pregnant women go through many things. But at the end of the day if you don`t want to be in a marriage, you get out. And as a defense attorney you have to have --

COSBY: But how do you defend -- if you were -- if you were defending this guy, what do you do? Where are you looking for the avenues? Alex thinks everybody is innocent but what`s your take?

ST. CARMEN: You`re looking for the holes and missing pieces and circumstantial evidence cases. You`re looking maybe to see if there`s any evidence to suggest that somebody else may have been responsible for this crime. And if not at the end you`re looking to arrange a plea deal which would save him from eventually being in prison for the rest of his life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lisa was 17 weeks pregnant when she was killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murder of Lisa Maria Techel and her unborn child.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He comes out to find Lisa Techel shot.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: First-degree murder and nonconsensual termination of a human pregnancy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Lisa Techel found dead with a single shot. She, as you heard, has only been married for seven months. She was 17 weeks pregnant. And now her husband is behind bars.

Let`s continue with Michael Board, he`s a reporter with WOAI Radio.

Michael, you know what, it is so heartbreaking and, again, this is not just a woman who was killed. Her 17-week-old baby, her fetus, is inside of her. And as you mentioned, there are additional charges for that as there should be. But separately she even went to the point she even picked out the baby`s name.

BOARD: Yes, little Billy. And you know it makes it even more heartbreaking when you hear that she had a name picked out for this little child, it`s going to be little Zoe Techel. And it`s a tragic story because this is a woman who spent her adult life serving her community. You know, she put her life on the line serving as a Reserve deputy. She put her life on the line serving as a jail guard in Washington County. She obviously cared about her community.

She was doing the right thing. She was getting married, she was having a child, everything seemed to be going right except for this marriage. You have to wonder if she knew things were going wrong in this marriage. You`d have to think she was expecting something, probably not the blast of a 12- gauge shotgun, but she had to expect something was coming.

COSBY: Although, you know, it seems so strange, there was this Trac phone, he really seemed, you know, Gary Barrett, to have this secret life. And he even admitted to this girlfriend that, look, I don`t want Lisa to find out I`ve got this secret phone, he was contacting her Facebook, e-mail, it was -- it seemed at this point that she didn`t know, at least not until recently, if indeed she knew at all.

BARRETT: Well, if they we`re talking on Facebook she probably would have had some indicator of what`s going on. And you`ve got to remember this is small town Iowa, population of agency is 629. If anybody saw them -- his lover and Seth Techel -- together, they`re going to talk. And it`s -- and eventually that`s probably going to come back to her or her family.

So I can`t believe that she didn`t have some knowledge that things are going bad and maybe when everything sort of can do ahead back on the 25th when she said she was going to pack and leave.

COSBY: Yes. Let`s go to a caller, Michelle from Vermont who`s on the line.

Michelle, what`s your question tonight?

MICHELLE, CALLER FROM VERMONT: Yes, my question would be is that if he is brought into court -- and thank you for taking my call, I`m sorry -- that he gets charged with her murder, is he -- is he charged with the exact same for the baby`s murder as he would be for hers?

COSBY: No, it`s different. In fact, it`s interesting. Let`s go to Michael Board, reporter, WOAI. It`s different charges for the baby, the 17-week-old fetus.

BOARD: Yes. They`re charging him with first-degree murder, obviously, for the murder of Lisa. They are also charging him with something called nonconsensual termination of a human pregnancy. Now I don`t know that they did that because maybe they didn`t know they had enough evidence to show he was trying to murder the unborn child as well so they charged him with something lower, that they had more -- they thought they had a stronger case on, but he had something completely different.

Regardless, you know, when we get to sentencing or when we get to the trial in this case, the first-degree murder will trump. You know he still needs to be tried guilty. This is America. He gets a trial. If he is found guilty in Iowa of first-degree murder for the murder of Lisa Techel in Iowa, if you`re found guilty of that, it`s life in prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shocking developments.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been unbelievable.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty-one-year-old Seth Techel was arrested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged in connection with the murder of Lisa Marie Techel and her unborn child.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They saw Techel return to the area where the shotgun was found.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The shooter wasn`t a stranger. It was the husband.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. Lisa Techel found murdered in her bed and now her husband accused of that murder. Also, she was 17 weeks pregnant and she even had a name for the baby. Zoe Maria.

Let`s go to Dr. Ann Contrucci. Dr. Ann Contrucci, I have to ask you, you know, when you hear about this, 17 weeks, what type of steps would a mother have gone through to get to that point? I would assume sonograms, visibly showing?

DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, PEDIATRICIAN: Oh, yes, by that point -- this just -- it just breaks my heart. I mean I`m a mother also, and 17 weeks, you know, she`s already bonded with that baby, she`s got a name picked out, she`s probably thinking about the nursery. I mean, I deal with newborns and their moms all the time and it is a love affair, and this is just so tragic to me. But she would have had sonograms by this point, probably would be starting to show.

Typically you would be starting to show at 17 weeks. And, you know, just starting to get excited. You`re starting to feel good, you`re starting your second trimester, you`re maybe not having as much of the morning sickness. So this is just a terrible tragedy, I mean it`s the loss of two lives. And senseless, just senseless.

COSBY: It is. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. What drives a man to kill not just his wife but his pregnant wife? This has happened a number of times.

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Total self-interest, total narcissism, no caring of what happens to anybody else. And I`d like to say one quick thing about the mistress here, too. What kind of a woman gets involved with a newlywed at the very beginning of his marriage?

COSBY: Yes, then he tells her she`s pregnant. Right.

AUSTIN: And then when she knows -- then she knows the wife is pregnant and she continues the affair? That`s not very good either. Very selfish.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Seth Techel calls 911.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Saying he came out of the shower to find that his wife had been shot and she wasn`t breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators say there`s no evidence of an intruder.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He lied about how many guns were in their home, how many cell phones he had, and about having an affair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Techel has been charged with murder in the first degree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. And Seth Techel gets arrested. He also is taken into custody. By the way, on the night of the visitation, the day before the funeral, and cops say they are very confident in this case.

Let`s go to Alex Sanchez, defense attorney. How do you find a jury, if it goes to that case, and, again, we don`t know if it`s going to go to that case, but if it does, how do you find a jury who`s sympathetic to a guy who`s been cheating on his wife since he`s been married? The wife was 17 weeks pregnant, even picked out a name for the baby. She seems like she`s killed in cold blood.

If he did it, how do you -- how do you find a jury who`s going to have any sympathy on this guy?

SANCHEZ: Well, you emphasize to the jury that this guy may be a ked, he may have made a lot of poor decisions, he may have lied to the police, but that`s a far cry from committing murder in this case and the jury needs to make that distinction.

COSBY: Yes, and what, the jury is going to go, OK, let`s see, the gun was over there, he`s asking the cops? Coincidentally. I mean right now no sign of intruder, Alex. No sign of anybody else in the house.

SANCHEZ: Well, you know, show me the forensic evidence that links him to that gun and maybe I`ll concede there`s a case. But you have not done that at this point.

COSBY: What about -- what about all this -- there were not -- there is not cases that always have forensic evidence. It certainly helps.

SANCHEZ: And what about --

COSBY: Believe me, it certainly helps but it may not be there.

SANCHEZ: What about the strange story about him ordering this roommate to leave a gun? I`m ordering you to leave a gun? I need this gun. Leave the bullet. Don`t you think that`s kind of strange?

COSBY: Yes, that`s -- I think it`s very strange. But I also think a man who might leave a gun 90 feet away from his house and then ask cops, are you surveilling the house? All coincidence, Alex? All coincidence?

SANCHEZ: Well, how do we know -- wait. How do we know he`s the one that left that gun there? Did the police take tracer dogs and trace his body`s scent to that gun?

COSBY: Don`t you think, Alex Sanchez --

SANCHEZ: You do not know the answer to that question.

COSBY: Alex, don`t you think that cops at this point -- you`re a smart defense attorney. Don`t you think that they have forensics? They probably, if a guy, say he did do it, OK, and I am saying if. If he did do it and say he threw the gun away, you know cops have fingerprints, they got other stuff on him.

SANCHEZ: No.

COSBY: They`ve got ballistics.

SANCHEZ: No.

COSBY: You know it.

SANCHEZ: I do not know that. And I do know that a good defense attorney - -

COSBY: OK, just happens -- they just happened to arrest somebody.

SANCHEZ: -- will find their own experts to challenge that evidence.

COSBY: Anna-Sigga, let me ask you really quick, you hear all this. A lot of cases are tried without forensic evidence. Give me a break, right?

NICOLAZZI: Most cases are tried without forensic evidence. You know we all watch these shows on television that basically show us everything, has laser beams proving this and special type -- most cases are still proven by witness testimony and common sense.

COSBY: And tonight, everybody, let`s stop to remember Marine Sergeant David Wallace III, 25 years old from Sharpsville, Pennsylvania, killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. He also served in Iraq. He loved grilling, fishing, and mechanic work and he leaves behind his mother, Carol, his brother, Stephen, also in the military, his widow Erica, and children, Landon and Brooklyn.

David Wallace, a true American hero.

And thank you to all our guests tonight. Thank you all at home for being with us. Stay tuned because Dr. Drew is next.

END