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Shocking Treatment; Recall Free-for-All

Aired June 6, 2012 - 20:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks. Good evening, everyone.

We begin tonight "Keeping Them Honest" with an investigation into why autistic kids in this country, and kids with severe behavioral problems are being shocked with electrodes at a school in the United States.

Now we've been looking into this school for years. It's the only place in the country that electrically shocks students. And now the United Nations' point person on torture, yes, torture, is pressing for an investigation.

The school is in Massachusetts. It's called the Judge Rotenberg Center. And they claim that electric shocks and other forms of what they call aversive therapies are the only way to control some students who are a danger to themselves or to others. Recently outrage over the school exploded when the public for the first time saw video of a student being repeatedly shocked. His name is Andre McCollins. The video shows Andre being shocked some 31 times over the course of seven hours.

I want to warn you, it is difficult to watch.

Andrew McCollins was 18. He's no longer at this center. His mom pulled him out. His family recently settled a lawsuit against the JRC and the video is part of the trial.

Now those disturbing images also caught the attention of the U.N. Special Rapporteur Juan Mendez. Over the weekend, he told the British paper, "The Guardian," quote, "The use of electricity on anyone's body raises the question of whether this is therapeutic or whether it inflicts pain and suffering tantamount to torture in violation of international law."

Mendez is looking for answers from the U.S. Department of Justice which launched an investigation against this center some two years ago. When we asked the Justice Department for an update on the investigation they've told us it's ongoing and they wouldn't comment.

The school said that no one else will take their students and that the electric shocks are better than huge amounts of prescription drugs. Now to be sure, the school has many supporters. Parents who swear their kids are alive because of these shocks. But the National Council on Disabilities and many other critics said the electric shocks that JRC uses are contrary to federal policy and at odds with mental health research.

What's more, an investigation by New York state officials found that students were being shocked for a wide range of behaviors that weren't by any measure aggressive, destructive or dangerous. For instance, nagging, swearing and, quote, "failing to maintain a neat appearance." They were shocked for not being neat enough.

Recently a former teacher's aide at the school told us pretty much the same thing.


GREG MILLER, FORMER TEACHER'S AIDE, JUDGE ROTENBERG CENTER: A kid drinks out of a paper cup and finishes his water and then carries the paper cup. You have to shock the student for tearing that paper cup the same as if they tore something off the wall. There's no -- not necessary. It's being abused. This is torture.


COOPER: Now remember, these are autistic kids in some cases who can't even communicate, can't express what they're feeling. The Justice Department isn't the only federal agency looking into this center right now. In 2010 the Food and Drug Administration, the FDA, withdrew its clearance of the device that the school uses to shock the students. It's called a GED. It looks like this.

It's from the -- the device the FDA originally cleared was much less powerful than the one that the school has also now begun to use. They basically created a souped-up version to give some students even stronger shocks. So even though the FDA pulled their clearance, the school still uses it. The FDA says they have been investigating the whole thing but if they are, it's taking them more than two years to take any action.

Tom Foreman has been digging on that. He joins me now.

What did the FDA actually tell you, Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the FDA has been very closed mouthed about this. They said the same thing really that you heard from the Justice Department. This is an ongoing investigation. They said they're not standing by letting horrible things happen but they just can't talk about this case. They told us at one point that they would consider coming on to talk to us on camera about at least the general principles involved here.

We even went up to their campus there on the north side of D.C. to see if they wanted to come out and talk. We've exchanged notes with them and everything else, but ultimately they backed off from even that. And they simply will not come on and talk about even the general principles whether or not this is good or bad even though they admit they are the ones who have to approve these devices -- Anderson.

COOPER: What reason did they give for not giving an interview? FOREMAN: Well, just that notion that it has to be a private matter. This is something that's ongoing. They sort of give a little bit of a wink and a nod to the notion of we are definitely on this, we are definitely moving forward. We just can't tell you about it right now. But as you know, it's really been quite a number of months since the last sign of any action on this. So that begs the question, when, if at any time, will they take action.

COOPER: It's been almost over two years. Is there any sense of a timetable?

FOREMAN: No. None at all at this point. Just the sense that they're moving forward with it. They did say at one point you have to give a company time to make the changes that we request. That's a quote there which would suggest that they're in some process of saying you must change this now. Change it. The argument being that these people at the center actually manufactured this device so for them to make all the changes and get them properly cleared as the official language is might take a period of time.

But there's no sense of how much time we're talking about, whether that will be six more months or six more years.

COOPER: And the school is standing by publicly their use. And they're the only ones that we could find in the country, if not in the world, that actually shocks students like this.

Tom, thanks.

FOREMAN: Thank you very much, Anderson.

COOPER: One of those vocal critics of the Judge Rotenberg Center is Massachusetts senator, Brian Joyce. He's tried repeatedly to shut down the center. Recently the Massachusetts Senate passed a bill that he sponsored banning the use of electric shocks on students. Its fate, though, in the House in Massachusetts is unclear.

Now according to Senator Joyce the Rotenberg Center has spent millions of dollars over the last decade on lawyers, and lobbyists, and powerful friends in the state capital. He also told us that the center has brought students to testify at a past hearing that state lawmakers held and that the students, some of them were actually wearing their electric shock devices while they testified.

Joyce contends that that testimony could have been coerced by the fear of being shocked. Now we asked the Judge Rotenberg Center about those claims. In a statement they told us, and I quote, "Senator Joyce is once again making false statements when faced with compelling evidence of the efficacy of aversive procedures. The army of people descending on the Massachusetts statehouse that he refers to are not, quote, 'lobbyists and lawyers,' they are dozens of parents of JRC students who visit the statehouse to inform the legislators about how aversive therapy saved their child's life when no other treatment would work."

"Similarly," the statement went on, "Senator Joyce is making false statements about the current and former JRC students who courageously testified at hearings conducted by the Massachusetts legislature about their life of pain, anguish and hopelessness caused by their untreatable behavior disorder and how the JRC treatment program and aversives saved their life."

Senator Brian Joyce joins me now along with Dr. Louis Kraus, chief of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago.

Senator Joyce, the center is saying you're making false statements. They're basically saying you're lying about the students who testified and about the large number of lobbyists and lawyers you say are involved in keeping this center open. Your response.

BRIAN A. JOYCE, MASSACHUSETTS STATE SENATOR: Well, every single statement that I've made is documented and sourced. The statement that you just read actually came from not the center itself but a very high priced public relations firm. The money they spent on lawyers and lobbyists is actually public information. They spent over $2 million in lobbyists and lawyers last year, over a million dollars in lobbying. Over $15 million in lawyers in the past 10 years.

You know, what other school for disabled children is spending tens of millions of dollars on lawyers and lobbyists and public relations specialists to defend what is really the indefensible, barbaric treatment of innocent, disabled children.

COOPER: And Dr. Kraus, it's always interesting to me when you ask anybody for a statement and they don't really respond directly to some of the direct questions. What they didn't respond to in that statement was whether or not their students were wearing electric shock devices while testifying.

When you hear the allegations that some of them were actually wearing these electric devices, does that seem appropriate to you?

DR. LOUIS KRAUS, RUSH UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: I can't fathom the concept of having electrical devices on kids. They already know what the impact is of these electrical devices. They've already apparently been used on these particular kids. Why would they have the electrical devices on them? If it was so effective, you'd think they wouldn't need them?

The concept of having them on them almost seems like a tortuous process for these kids that -- it's just really unfathomable.

COOPER: Senator Joyce, the center makes a lot of money. When I first began looking into this, I didn't realize how much money they're -- they're making about $52 million every year by one account that I read. Is that -- is that taxpayers who are paying for these kids to be shocked?

JOYCE: It is. It's taxpayer money. An awful lot of taxpayer money from the state of New York and several other states.

Going back to the statement with respect to wearing the painful electronic device, 2006 the Board of Regents of the state of New York in their report gave evidence of students actually wearing these electric painful devices while they were being showered and bathed. Reports of burning flesh in the hallway. You know, the smell of burning flesh, of having to have so-called GED holidays, GED being the device, that there was so much burning of the skin that they had to stop it for a while while the skin healed.

COOPER: Dr. Kraus, the fact that the U.N., that the U.N. point person on torture is now pressing for an investigation, I mean, do you describe this as torture? I mean that's not a word that we have used. Is that something -- a word that you would use?

KRAUS: Well, if you look, you know, in 1990 the U.N. passed the Convention on the Rights of Children. Article 19 on there talks about tortuous, hurtful, painful behavior to children. For us essentially violating an eighth amendment right of the child. There's a reason why schools don't use corporal punishment. It's against the law. It's child abuse.

COOPER: Doctor, I'm no expert certainly and I'm sympathetic to the parents that I've talked to who support this center and say, look, my child would be dead if it wasn't for this center. My child who had behavior that was so hurtful to themselves that they might have taken their own life, banging their head against the wall until they died.

And the school keeps coming back and saying, look, this therapy has saved the lives of children when no other treatment would work. So what do you say to those parents who say, well, look, this may be unusual, this may be the only place that does this but, you know, shocking these kids seems to work in some cases?

KRAUS: You know, there could be isolated examples of many different types of treatment appearing to work. The problem is not having peer reviewed research really limits any validity to this. You know people fall out of airplanes and survive on the rarest of occasions. That doesn't make it safe. This is something that there's a reason why there aren't other programs using this type of aversive treatment.

COOPER: It is interesting, Senator Joyce, because if somebody proposed, you know, strapping electric devices to prisoners to keep them in line in prisons and shocking them, you know, as often as necessary to control their behavior, there would be a lot of people standing up and saying, well, look, that's -- you can't do that to people. And yet this is allowed.

How is it that this has continued to go on? Because you've been pushing legislation over and over again over the years to ban -- to ban this practice.

JOYCE: Somehow in 49 other states and, indeed on every other nation on earth, we're able to treat disabled children increasingly with positive behavioral treatment. You know the statement you read earlier suggested I had not visited the center. Certainly I've visited the center. Suggested I've not spoken with parents. I've spoken with dozens of parents, I've spoken with dozens of former employees often who are fearful of speaking with me.

But I was with one former parent on Saturday, Cheryl McCollins, whose son Andre was the poor boy who was shown on the video recently in court, tortured for over seven hours while tied to a board with a helmet on. And I think his violation was not taking his jacket off in a timely manner. And I think it turned out it might not even have been his jacket.

It's important, you know, sometimes these children are not even verbal, can't even communicate. Cheryl McCollins, that mother said she never, ever, ever would have allowed this to happen to her son had she known, had the center shown her when she dropped her son off what they do to these poor children.

COOPER: And she settled out of court with the -- with the center but continues to speak out now to try to close it down. We've had her on the program as well.

Senator Brian Joyce, appreciate you being on. Dr. Louis Kraus, thank you.

JOYCE: Thank you.

KRAUS: Thank you.

COOPER: Next to "Raw Politics," raw emotions tonight. Wisconsin voters decided to keep Republican Governor Scott Walker. He survived Tuesday's recall votes. It was sparked by Walker's move last year to cut union rights and benefits in the midst of a state budget crisis.

Now the outcome of the vote didn't sit well with supporters of his Democratic opponent Tom Barrett who lost. A Barrett volunteer -- well, actually one person actually slapped the Democratic candidate for conceding before she felt all the votes were in.


COOPER: A lot of discussion today over what happened in Wisconsin last night and what it may mean, if anything, for the presidential race. Wisconsin voters decided, as you know, decided to keep the Republican Governor Scott Walker. He survived Tuesday's recall that was sparked by Walker's move last year to cut union rights and benefits in the midst of a state budget crisis.

Now the outcome of the vote did not sit well with supporters of his Democratic opponent, Tom Barrett, who lost.

Meet Mike, a Barrett volunteer who was clearly very upset.


MIKE, BARRETT VOLUNTEER: Every single one of you out there in the nation if you're watching, democracy died tonight.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're very emotional. MIKE: I'm very emotional because we all had a lot invested in this. This was it. If we didn't win tonight the end of the USA as we know it just happened. This is it. We just got outspent $34 million to $4 million. And we don't have any other resource left but the people you see here behind me. And if the people you see here behind me can't get it done tonight, it's done. Democracy is dead.


COOPER: Well, Mike wasn't the only Barrett supporter certainly fired up. Watch this. Mr. Barrett just after his concession speech last night, an unidentified woman slaps him across the face. That's life in the big city, Barrett told reporters today.

Now the Milwaukee mayor says the thought he had conceded defeat with the Wisconsin voters still at the polls. Barrett did not make it to the podium until after 10:00 p.m. after voting ended. A slap and even tears. A lot of raw emotion and raw politics. Now let's talk about some of the money.

For more insight let's talk with chief national correspondent, John King.

John, there's been a lot of analysis today about what happened in Wisconsin and its significance, if anything, on the presidential race coming in in five months. First let's talk about the money. A huge amount of money spent, a lot of it from out of the state.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And a lot of people now asking, Anderson, was it a fair fight, was it an even fight? Well, even, no. Fair? We'll leave that up to you. The role of big money and outside money is now the big flash point in the debate over the significance of the recall election and the numbers, as you know, are staggering.

More than $66 million spent heading into just the final days. So you can be certain that final number will be above $70 million, perhaps approach $80 million. Of the $66 million in spending already reported, about half of the money came from outside Wisconsin.

Now Republican groups had a bit of an edge in that spending. About 54 percent of the outside money went to helping Governor Walker fight the recall effort. What is more staggering, though, is if you look at the candidate versus candidate spending, meaning Governor Walker versus his Democratic challenger Tom Barrett.

Look at these numbers. Walker spent more than $30 million to $4 million for Barrett. That's a more than seven to one spending advantage, and look at that, more than 60 percent of Governor Walker's contributions came from outside the state. Just 25 percent of Mayor Barrett's money came from outside Wisconsin.

It's also interesting to note, Anderson, a lot of that money was spent on voter turnout and ground operation. That's a lesson likely to shape the big super PAC and other spending decisions late in the presidential race now. And of the $66 million in spending that we've been able to track so far, a little more than $20 million was spent on TV ads. Nearly 2/3 of the ad spending supported Republican Walker.

You see that there, and about half of the TV money was spent in the final five weeks. And again, in that period you see lopsided spending in favor of Governor Walker. A big question now, though, is whether that late spending made any difference.

Eighty-six percent of voters who took part in the exit polls said they decided before May. So $12 million spent in the final few weeks to influence the hearts and minds, Anderson, of about 13 percent of the recall voters.

COOPER: Well, let's -- I want to bring in CNN political contributor and Republican consultant, Alex Castellanos. Also Democratic strategist Bill Burton, a former deputy press secretary in the Obama White House, and he's also a senior strategist for Priorities USA -- excuse me, Priorities USA Action which is a pro- Obama super PAC.

Bill, let's look at money, first of all. Do you think it really did have a big impact? A lot of Democrats are saying it did. But you look at some of these exit polls, people made up their minds long before the election. A lot of people just didn't like the idea of a recall unless it was for gross misconduct.

BILL BURTON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEP. PRESS SECRETARY FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Right. I think there's no doubt that the money made a big difference for that small group of voters that John King identified as the people who decided late. I think going into this everyone knew that there was going to be a very small universe of voters who were actually persuadable going into election day and when you've got that kind of gross spending differential between the Democrats and Republicans, it's going to make a difference.

Democrats had an amazing ground game. But what we saw here was that that was not enough to overcome all of that money that poured into the state and poured into the Republican side for Scott Walker.

COOPER: Alex, is that the way you it? That this was just the Democrats were overspent?

ALEX CASTELLANOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, let's look at Meg Whitman in California. All the money in the world won't win an election when it's not the product that people want to buy. I think we ought to remember that Apple Computer makes a lot of money not because they make a lot of money but because they're popular. They're doing something people like.

And I think the people in Wisconsin decided, you know what, we'd rather have some fiscal responsibility and an economy that doesn't go bankrupt. So -- and besides that, it's not that much money really, $80 million, to I think deal President Obama a setback here at the beginning of his presidential campaign. Having him as president is costing us trillions. This is a deal.

COOPER: John, let's look at what the exit polls show us, though, in terms of what was on voter's minds. From my reading, it's just a lot of them did not like the idea of recalling a governor in the middle of a term for something that wasn't misconduct.

KING: I think that is a huge part of the dynamic here. Stopping the game in midstream and saying let's start it over with somebody new. A lot of people said, no, we elected this guy, and let's let him finish his term. We'll figure it out at the end of it. That is certainly part of it.

You also, if you look, Anderson, the voters were evenly divided on the fundamental question about let's start it all, restricting collective bargaining rights and other, you know, actions against the unions that they found to be punitive. So you had an evenly divided electorate there. There's the polarized electorate you had. Then you add in concerns about the recall.

What is interesting to me, and I think a troubling lesson for Democrats, is that a fair amount, about 1/3 of union households supported Governor Walker. If this was about union rights at the beginning, those union workers decided to support him at the end. So everyone goes through the lessons here, they'll go through the money lessons, was it well spent, is there a way to better spend it.

If you look at Alex's point about policy and about the demographics, there are some very important lessons and warning signs for Democrats.

COOPER: Alex, Bill was saying the Democratic ground game was good. They were just overspent. Do you think the ground game was good?

CASTELLANOS: I think the ground game was good but this was a test of President Obama's philosophy for the coming November election. President Obama's lost the middle. He doesn't think he can get it back. The Democratic brand under President Obama has become spending.

COOPER: But wait a minute, Alex.

CASTELLANOS: Democratic spending. Not --

COOPER: A lot of folks who voted even for Walker are Obama supporters and said that they would vote for Obama.

CASTELLANOS: Yes, but you'll notice Obama didn't go into Wisconsin. He didn't polarize this race around him. He wisely I think stayed out of it. The problem is that Obama philosophy for reelection is we've lost the middle. What we're going to do is intensify our base, union support, we're going to get our base out with such intensify that it'll compensate for losing the middle. That's what was tested in Wisconsin. It didn't work. I think it does augers some problems for the Obama campaign.


BURTON: I think that -- I think that that is remarkably overstated, actually, Anderson. While I agree that this -- well, maybe, you know, message definitely counts and there are factors that other -- that also make a huge difference like who the candidates are and how that all plays. To say that this is a big setback for the Obama campaign I think is a little silly especially when you consider that one out of every 10 voter in the entire election was somebody who voted for Walker and for President Obama.

And, you know, I didn't see Mitt Romney spending a lot of time in the state either. The fact is this was about a pretty parochial set of issues and not about the larger campaign.

COOPER: John King --

BURTON: A state where President Obama is going to win this fall, I don't think that's really in question except for the most hard core partisans who are trying to make a case where there isn't one.

COOPER: John, what do the exit polls show? Let's try to talk facts as much as we can. Alex is saying Obama lost the middle.

KING: The Democrats lost some of the middle. Obama was not on the ballot last night. the Democrats lost some of the middle last night.

Look, there are warning signs here for President Obama. There are demographic trends, Anderson, that started before the Wisconsin recall and that are in evidence in the Wisconsin recall. Downscale white voters in the rustbelt that used to be reliable Democratic voters. They are moving more and more to the Republicans.

Older voters, used to be reliably Democratic voters, they're moving more and more to the Republicans. The president's advantage, and this didn't play out so much in Wisconsin is Latino voters, African-American voters, college educated women, those are his voters. So we'll see how this plays out in Wisconsin.

Now I would still say Wisconsin leans Obama. Why? Because he did win that exit poll last night. That doesn't mean last night was not proof that he's going to have to work a lot harder than maybe he thought he was going to have to work two or three weeks ago.

COOPER: All right. John, appreciate it. Alex and Bill -- Bill, thanks very much.

BURTON: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, former President Bill Clinton was the big name Democrat to campaign in Wisconsin. Tomorrow in "THE SITUATION ROOM" you're going to find out what he thinks about the recall vote and its impact on the election coming up. That's at 4:00 Eastern on CNN.

I want to get you up to date on the trial of former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky. The judge has officially seated the jury today. And we're going to have more in a moment on the reports of the letters Sandusky allegedly wrote to some of the victims. We'll tell you what we know and what the defense is saying about them live from the courthouse. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Up close tonight, the death of number two man in al Qaeda killed by a CIA drone strike in Pakistan.

I'm joined by Henry Crumpton. The man who spent more than 20 years in one of the most secretive corners of the U.S. intelligence community. He led the CIA in the assault of al Qaeda in the days and months and years after 9/11. That's next.


COOPER: Crime and punishment tonight. The jury is now seated in the Jerry Sandusky trial. It took both sides just two days to select seven women, five men and four alternates from a pool of hundreds of potential jurors. It's now their job to decide whether the former Penn State assistant football coach is guilty of a string of child sex abuse charges. About half the jurors who have made the cut have some sort of ties to the university. The jurors have a big job ahead obviously.

The judge said the trial will likely last about three weeks. It's all set to begin on Monday. Jurors are going to need to listen to some pretty tough testimony from dozens of witnesses.

The prosecutors are expected to call one of Sandusky's accusers as their first witness and ask him about alleged love letters he received from the coach.

Jason Carroll is live from the courthouse in Belafonte, Pennsylvania. So Jason, what do we know about these letters? I mean, they've been described as love letters. What does the defense say?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the defense is going to have an interesting perspective on this. You know, I spoke to a source before the gag order was put into place specifically asking about these letters.

And the defense, I'm told, is going to argue that these are not love letters, Anderson, that these are letters of encouragement that Jerry Sandusky wrote to students, wrote to football players over the years.

Also wrote to those who participated in Second Mile, that charity that he founded for young men who are in trouble. And the source also tells me that what Jerry basically will do and did over the past was give gifts of encouragement to encourage these young men to get good grades, to go to school.

And if you remember, back in November I actually spoke to Joe Amendola. That is Jerry Sandusky's defense attorney about this very same subject. I want you to listen to what he had to say back then about these gifts and letters.


JOE AMENDOLA, JERRY SANDUSKY'S ATTORNEY: What we're saying is Jerry cared about a lot of kids and there are hundreds of other kids who Jerry took to events and to whom he provided gifts. What we're saying is that was Jerry.


CARROLL: And what obviously we're going to have to hear from, Anderson, is the jury itself. Jerry will have to make obviously the determination in terms of whether or not they believe and how they would interpret these letters that will eventually be introduced into evidence.

COOPER: Jason, some of the alleged victims wanted to testify without being identified. The judge ruled that that wouldn't happen. Why?

CARROLL: Well, you know, from Judge Cleveland's point of view, he basically felt he wanted this process to be as open and transparent as possible and didn't feel he could do that with these accusers concealing their identity.

Obviously, this is a major disappointment to prosecution, some of those in the prosecution, and to some of the attorneys who are privately representing these accusers.

I spoke to an attorney who's representing the accuser identified in the grand jury report as accuser number five, and you have to remember that some of these accusers are coming forward reluctantly.

They've buried a lot of this pain according to what he's saying. It's embarrassing to have to talk about a lot of these things. This is part of the reason why they wanted their identities concealed.

That will not happen. The judge did say he had hoped the media at least would protect and conceal the identity of these accusers.

COOPER: And how does Sandusky seem in all of this? I mean, what's his appearance like?

CARROLL: Well, you know, at one point, Jerry Sandusky by Joe Amendola was described I remember as being a big kid. I think some would say we saw a little part of that in court today. He likes to joke around.

At one point during the jury proceeding, he basically said, quote, "what did you guys do to deserve me?" He's turned around and said that to two of the jury pool reporters who were there.

Then he said to two of the reporters, quote, "how did you guys get stuck with this?" So a little bit of joking there, but I should point out as he left the courthouse today when people were shouting out questions to him, he said absolutely nothing. He got in his car with Joe Amendola and drove away.

COOPER: All right, Jason Carroll, we'll continue to cover this throughout the course of the trial. There's a lot more going on tonight. Let's check in with Isha in the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, police conducted major raid in Puerto Rico this morning. They arrested dozens of drug traffickers. The DEA is targeting two separate smuggling rings.

One allegedly involves corrupt airline employees. The other is a criminal gang accused of sneaking cocaine through the airport security to the U.S.

Russia and China are speaking out against foreign intervention in Syria criticizing others on the U.N. Security Council for promoting regime change. Washington has been lobbying Moscow to put allies on its ally and Bashar Al-Assad's government.

CNN obtained this exclusive video of a shootout between the Syrian military tanks and opposition snipers in the divided city of Homs. Opposition groups report that 71 people were killed across the country today.

The shuttle "Enterprise" has made its final voyage by barge up the Hudson River. A crane lifted the decommissioned shuttle onto the deck of its permanent new home, New York's "USS Intrepid" Museum.

And Anderson, sci-fi legend Ray Bradbury has died. Over seven decades, Bradbury wrote nearly 50 books and hundreds of short stories. He predicted among other things the invention of the ATM.

Some of his more famous works include "Fahrenheit 451," "The Martian Chronicles" and "Something Wicked This Way Comes." He was 91, very sad news to his fans tonight, Anderson.

COOPER: It's an amazing career, amazing how many books he wrote and articles and stuff.


COOPER: Isha, thanks very much.

Al Qaeda's number two is dead. What does that mean though for the future of al Qaeda and it threats for the United States. We have a CIA legend standing by to sort it all out. We'll be right back.


COOPER: There are few people alive that know more about al Qaeda in the intelligence business than Hank Crumpton. I'll talk to him about the death of the number two man in al Qaeda and where the U.S. stands now in the fight against terror. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Up close tonight, the death of al Qaeda's number two guy Abu Yahya Al-Libi was killed by a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan. Now the White House says his death strikes a serious blow to the terrorist group.

Al-Libi made frequent appearances on Jihadist web sites. He was seen as a key motivator in the ideological battle against the west. Now analysts say the only leader al Qaeda has left really is Al- Zawahiri who took the helm after Osama Bin Laden was killed last year. Joining me now is Henry Crumpton, the former deputy chief of the CIA's Counterterrorism Center. He also ran the agency's Afghanistan campaign right after 9/11. He's also the author of the new book, "The Art of Intelligence, Lessons From A Life in the CIA's Clandestine Service." Thanks for joining us.


COOPER: How big a deal is this?

CRUMPTON: It's a big deal. He's an important leader. Not just a number two, but really the chief operating officer of al Qaeda, particularly in South Asia. So it's an important strike.

COOPER: The number of drone strikes, I mean, under the Obama administration has gone up hugely compared to what it was in the previous administration. How effective do you think it is?

I mean, obviously there's controversy about civilians' death and stuff, but in terms of striking fear into al Qaeda and actually decimating al Qaeda, how effective?

CRUMPTON: Very effective. In the last four or five days, you've had three strikes that we know about in Pakistan, all apparently very effective and it's very precise weapon.

It's imperfect, but overall it's very precise, very effective, and driven importantly by intelligence. Each time you have a successful strike it's also about a successful intelligence operation.

COOPER: In terms of what al Qaeda is actually capable of now, the al Qaeda that committed 9/11. I mean, al Qaeda central as some call it. I heard a quote from Peter Bergen. He said recently he thought that al Qaeda was pretty much out of business. Do you agree with that?

CRUMPTON: I wouldn't say they're out of business yet. They're severely degraded, crippled, and they may not recover. But if you see the emergence of leaders in al Qaeda just because you've taken out most of them doesn't mean a new one will come up. And there are affiliates around the world. Yemen I'm worried about, in Northern Nigeria where you have vocal Heram even in Northern Mali, Somalia.

COOPER: In Northern Mali, it seems like there's two groups who are kind of battling over exactly the form of Islamic rule that they want to have.

But do any of these -- whether of these satellite groups or just ideological allies of al Qaeda central, do any of them have -- we've seen attacks coming out of Yemen.

I guess, is Yemen in terms of being able to launch foreign attacks? Is Yemen the ground zero for this?

CRUMPTON: It's not one center of gravity geographically when you look at the world, and that makes it a challenge from an intelligence perspective, but also from an operational perspective.

Yemen right now poses perhaps more risk than any other, but it's very variable. It can be Somalia next week, it can be -- I hope not, but it could be Northern Nigeria at some point.

COOPER: How concerned are you about, you know, we saw Somali's -- kids of Somali immigrants who grew up in the United States going to Somali, the first American suicide bomber I think in Somali was an American-Somali. How concerned are you about this happening in the United States from one of these foreign groups?

CRUMPTON: Well, I am concerned of course, the Fort Hood massacre where 13 people died in 2009 that was a singleton operative inspired by al Qaeda's theology.

But it could happen again and I think at some point it will, the number of attempted attacks on New York City alone in the last decade maybe about ten that have been thwarted or have failed.

COOPER: What about Syria? We've reported on this a lot. Obviously the Syrian regime has been claiming al Qaeda involvement in this from 15 months ago when the demonstrations first started.

There was no sign back then, but now there are indications of Jihadist kind of moving in on what was probably a revolution to begin with.

CRUMPTON: Any time you have political instability in that part of the world, al Qaeda will seek to take advantage of it, like they did in Iraq, like they are doing in Somalia, like they may be doing in Northern Mali.

So it certainly is an issue. I think that it's not just about nation states and the balance of power. I know there are some serious diplomatic efforts regarding Syria.

But more often than not it's about these non-state actors, it's about people and the diffusion of power among these actors so it's a very complicated issue in terms of how we deal with it, how we approach it.

COOPER: I mean, can a group operating in Yemen or group operating in Nigeria, can they access funds in the way that Bin Laden could apparently?

CRUMPTON: Well, certainly not 10 years ago where you had a strong flow of cash to al Qaeda central. That's been degraded through a very robust, vigorous international cooperation led by U.S. Treasury Department. They've done a good job. So I think the cash has been reduced, but it doesn't take a lot of money to launch some of these attacks.

COOPER: What concerns you most? I don't know if that's too dumb or broad a question.

CRUMPTON: It's a good question, weapons of mass destruction in some form. Al Qaeda has always said this was an objective. It was an obligation. We know that in '01 when we captured and uncovered the anthrax laboratories al Qaeda had near Kandahar, all it takes is one really smart scientist with one pathogen and you've got a real problem.

COOPER: We also saw over the last couple of years kind of a -- I don't know if it's really a new tactic, a small group. We started in Mumbai, a couple of attacks in Afghanistan against the Indian embassy.

Small groups of half a dozen guys armed with AK-47s and maybe some grenades, able to -- the guys took over two hotels in Mumbai were able to bring that city to a complete stop for several days. That was only a handful of guys. Is that a concern?

CRUMPTON: Sure. It could happen now. We know that Bin Laden wanted another 9/11. He wanted to hit an iconic target and have great strategic impact. With new leaders and affiliates, they may try a Mumbai attack here in the U.S. That's fairly possible.

COOPER: I really look forward to reading the book "The Art of Intelligence." Thank you so much for being with us.

CRUMPTON: You bet. Thanks for having me.

COOPER: Two weeks after they arrested the alleged killer of Etan Patz, the police search the house today, his house. We'll explain why. Details ahead.


COOPER: A lot more with happening tonight. Let's check in again with Isha in the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.

SESAY: Anderson, New York City police searching the home of the man who admitted to killing Etan Patz. ABC is reporting they served a search warrant at the home of Pedro Hernandez looking for evidence in the 1979 murder. This comes as Hernandez's wife warned his confession is unreliable because he suffers from mental illness.

Lawyers of Private First Class Bradley Manning have asked a military judge to drop 10 of the 22 charges against him. Manning is accused of leaking thousands of classified documents that ended up on the web site, Wikileaks. Manning's lawyers say the charges are too broad and say prosecutors are using them to criminalize speech.

Stock rallying today, the Dow jumping 287 points and the S&P rose 30. It's the biggest jump for both so far this year.

And the Japanese government confirming a dog found on an Oregon Beach was washed away during the tsunami last March. Officials said the package with Japanese writing on it to Japan's consulate in Portland. Radiation tests on the dog came back negative, which is some very good news.

COOPER: Yes, interesting. We should also mention today is the anniversary of the landing of d day. Our thoughts are with all of those who are still alive who were there on those beaches on that day and also their survivors as well.

It's incredible when you think about just the number of people that landed on the beaches that day, the effect it had on the war. I keep envisions that moment when those landing craft -- when the doors went down and you had to run out onto the beach. It was an extraordinary accomplishment.

SESAY: Yes, it really was. 68 years have gone by. It was incredible to me doing the reading on it. They still don't know how many ally soldiers died that day. We know the impact it made on World War II.

COOPER: Eisenhower in an order said the tide has turned. The free men of the world are marching together to victory. We will accept nothing less. That is what those great young men accomplished and we remember them tonight.

Tonight's shot. A lot of times when they shoot commercials the best scenes are the ones that end up on the cutting room floor. I saw this online today. Pine Sol Company released these outtakes of their spokeswoman surprising, unsuspecting cleaners. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your cleaner. Have you seen this?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our Pine-Sol, baby. Woman right there on the wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pine-Sol, baby. Are you all right?


SESAY: That is fantastic.


SESAY: These people will never clean again.

COOPER: My God. I love it, very funny. Yes. That is our shot tonight, pretty good.

SESAY: I absolutely love that. Absolutely love it.

And let me tell you, Mr. Cooper, I am going to raise you on this. Let me show you these pictures. A Russian base jumper has set a new world jump record with the leap off of a mountain in the Indian part of the hemi-layers. Check that out.

COOPER: Wow. That is incredible. There was a piece on ""60 Minutes"" about these people and it was the most incredible thing. Steve Kroft said it was so well shot and produced and done. It's amazing what they do. One of them actually crashed off Cape Town recently. There's amazing video of that online as well. He luckily survived.

SESAY: Thankfully he survived it.

COOPER: All right, Isha, thanks. "The Ridiculist" is next.

The president of the United States gets plenty of requests for clemency, but usually for something more serious than what an actress was, well, asking for clemency about although it is a serious charge. Why is she contacting the president about this? Details ahead.


COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist.' Tonight, we're ad being someone named Amanda Bynes. Now, if you don't know who she is, join the club. She apparently used to be on Nickelodeon than it was in the movie, "Hairspray" and some other movies that you probably never heard of.

Ms. Bynes which rhymes with fines as in jail time was arrested in California this spring for allegedly driving under the influence and sideswiping a police car. That is her mug shot.

Today, her attorney entered a plea of not guilty on her behalf in court. Now we're not making light of the charges against her. It's serious stuff. According to "People" magazine, she's had a string of driving incidents.

But the reason why she's on "The Ridiculist" is because like any sensible, classy celebrity, she has taken to Twitter to defend herself. Whom did she tweet you might ask? Who does she believe should be focusing on her situation?

None other than the president of the United States, that's right. Barack Obama, wrote the star, "She's The Man" and "Charlotte's Webb 2" I don't drink. Please fire the cop who arrested me. I also don't hit and run. The end.

Much like the end to her acting career. Didn't I mention that back in 2010, Amanda Bynes tweeted she was retiring from acting. She deleted her Twitter account only to reactivate it a month later to announce she was a triumphant return to showbiz business.

Now because of that she's making "Ridiculist" history tonight. Allow me to present our very first "Ridiculist" spinoff. Things more important than Amanda Bynes' tweets. I know what you're thinking. Basically anything is more important than Amanda Bynes's tweets, right?

Well, sure. But I just want you to be clear on the bar that we have set. For example, we learned today Miley Cyrus is getting married to "Hunger Games" star Liam Hemsworth.

Now on an ordinary day Ms. Cyrus' engagement would just be a standard celebrity news item, but when compared to an Amanda Bynes tweet. It is basically Watergate, the moon landing and the Oscars rolled into one.

How about other Hollywood Twitter users? How do they stack up? Say for example, Kanye West, sure, his tweets might be a bit vulgar and random like I hate big ass striped scarves, but at least he's not tweeting the president to get him out of a jam.

By the way, this new guy is not only focused on actors and musicians. You know what else is more important than an Amanda Bynes' tweet, this squirrel on water skis. That's Twiggy.

I can watch Twiggy all day. You will never see Twiggy on his iPhone tweeting a complaint to President Obama. But you know, far be it for me to judge Ms. Bynes. I wish her the best and Ms. Bynes, if you want to keep tweeting the president, that is certainly your right. Maybe you could even give him a call, just be sure to leave your number so he can contact you on "The Ridiculist."

That's it for us. We'll see you one hour from now, another of 360 at 10 p.m. Eastern. "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" starts now.