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Nancy Grace
Broken iPhone Leads to Hit and Run Death
Aired June 07, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: And breaking news tonight. A 25-year-old boozed-up brunette allegedly goes berserk after an argument with her much younger boyfriend, his one-time baby-sitter now turned lover accused of running down her teenage boyfriend in the middle of the street, crushing him to death with her gold Lincoln SUV. Why? Because he breaks her iPhone.
Then from her own jail cell, she reportedly tells a cellmate she still loves him but says it`s his fault for jumping in front of her SUV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unthinkable!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arguing over a broken cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was run over and crushed by the SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ran him over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Family claims they heard the Lincoln`s tires squealing!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hernandez`s injuries were so severe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the girlfriend burned rubber and drove away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was pronounced dead shortly after arriving at the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-five-year-old Jasmine Diaz was reportedly mad that her 17-year-old boyfriend broke...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victim`s mother says not only is there a big age difference between the couple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was very crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her iPhone! Broke her iPhone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The relationship was volatile.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hit Frankie (ph) with the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ran him over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now she just wants justice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still can`t believe my little brother`s gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And good evening. I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
A 25-year-old boozed-up brunette allegedly goes berserk after an argument with her much younger boyfriend, crushing him to death with her gold Lincoln SUV.
And for the very latest, let`s go to Carol D`Auria. She`s a reporter from 1010 WINS. Carol, you have spoken to the family of slain teenager Franklyn Hernandez. What are they saying tonight?
CAROL D`AURIA, 1010 WINS (via telephone): Well, it`s a mixture of crying and outrage. They call her a killer. They say she absolutely did this deliberately, that she was angry because her iPhone had broken, and she took it out on him with the car.
COSBY: Now, let`s go to Kat McCullough, NANCY GRACE producer. You`re there on the scene. Explain sort of what happened with this gold SUV.
KAT MCCULLOUGH, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the 25-year-old girlfriend, Jasmine, was staying with her 17-year-old lover in his family`s home right behind me. They started arguing inside the home and escalated to come outside. Then Jasmine got into her SUV and drove over Frankie repeatedly right in the street, right at this corner right behind me, crushing his head.
COSBY: Now, Brett Larson, afternoon anchor with FM News 101.9, Brett, give us a little background what sort of what happened in the evening prior to this incident with the SUV which leaves Franklyn dead. And we`re hearing he was driven over twice.
BRETT LARSON, FM NEWS 101.9: Right. I mean, we`re hearing that the couple was drunk. They got in an argument after he, you know, reportedly dropped her iPhone and shattered it. She goes out into the hallway. That`s where the fight goes out into the hallway. They get into a bit of a scuffle. There might have been a -- she might have actually hit him with a bottle. She...
COSBY: Yes, now, Brett, tell me about this. We`re hearing what, this may have been right before or within a few hours before? I mean (INAUDIBLE) a very volatile relationship, Brett.
LARSON: Yes. I mean, the family has already come out and said ever since the two had been dating that it`s been a very volatile relationship, that they have -- they`ve stolen their boy away from the family and that she`s kind of taken the life out of him.
And you know, she beats him up in the hallway. She says she`s going to go get her older brother to come back and beat him up, and then takes of in the car, only for him to go chase after her, and then -- and then she -- she runs him down.
You know, iPhones are very fragile devices. I`ve dropped -- I`ve dropped mine and shattered the back of it before. I didn`t feel the need to go run myself over with an SUV. I mean, it`s just -- the two things don`t match.
COSBY: It is absolutely preposterous! I mean, I drop my phone all the time. I -- you know, what do you do? You know, I don`t go run over somebody as a result of it...
LARSON: Right.
COSBY: ... or run over myself. Give me a break!
LARSON: Yes. I might say some four-letter words out loud, but I`m not going to go crazy over anybody. And it sounds like -- it actually sounds like this girl has a real temper problem, a real problem with anger. I mean, you know, we`ll get to this later, but you know, she had a meltdown after the courtroom. She was...
COSBY: Well, let`s get to it now.
LARSON: ... screaming at him -- yes.
COSBY: Let`s get to it now. And tell everybody what was happening in the court. OK, she goes to the court -- usually, you try to put on this little pretty face before the court, Oh, I didn`t do it. Oh, my goodness. I`m this nice person. I`m suddenly, you know -- you know, the church-goer who never said a swear word you know?
But what does she do?
LARSON: Don`t mind my horrible outfit and bad dye job. I`m here to be a good girl.
But you know, she sits there silently in the beginning of it. And Carol can say more about this. And then when they go to take her out, she starts screaming all these expletives and really loses herself, and then, you know, gets taken into a jail cell, where she admits, Oh, I still love the kid. I really -- it`s -- it`s really an unusual case here.
COSBY: It is absolutely unusual in the fact that -- first of all, let`s not forget the fact that she`s his baby-sitter originally.
LARSON: Yes!
COSBY: I mean, there`s, like -- every single rule is broken here. It`s just preposterous.
Carol D`Auria, tell us a little more about this court scene because it seems like it caused quite a furor.
D`AURIA: It certainly did. She was being arraigned on manslaughter charges. And she was on her best behavior while this was going on. She was just looking down at the floor very quietly.
But then when it was all over, the judge said he was holding her with no bail, which means she wasn`t going home. And so the handcuffs are on and the court officers started to lead her out of the courtroom, and that`s when she really let go. My understanding is she dropped the F-bomb and just was carrying on and screaming until they were able to get her out of the courtroom and into an inside hallway.
COSBY: Clark Goldband, NANCY GRACE producer, this girl sounds like she`s erupting at every single moment. Let`s talk about what the cops say happened that night and what the information that they have, Clark.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Rita, it`s simple. The cops say that once these two were outside, Jasmine, 25 years old, formerly the baby-sitter of this iPhone attack victim -- he just gets plowed over by the car. This luxury Lincoln Aviator makes a U-turn on the street, and the boyfriend is allegedly in front of the vehicle, and she allegedly just plows through.
Now, her -- his -- I`m sorry -- the victim`s family, Rita, tonight is saying she just didn`t hit this 17-year-old boyfriend once, she hit him twice!
COSBY: Now, there`s some word, too, Clark -- and I was seeing somewhere it said that she actually floored the engine. That`s what authorities are saying? Give me some information on that.
GOLDBAND: Yes, Rita. We are hearing reports from the family of the victim who`s saying when they were inside the home, they heard screeching of these tires, and that`s when they ran outside and found their loved one down and injured! The tire had allegedly run right over his head!
COSBY: Over his head. Carol D`Auria, what kind of a scene did this look like?
D`AURIA: Well, it was absolutely awful. I spoke to the mother, Iris (ph) Hernandez, and this was right near the house. So when the screeching tires were heard, she ran outside and she saw her son lying right there on the ground. He was already unconscious.
By the time the emergency workers came, he was not talking, not breathing. They get him into an ambulance, and he died a short while later. So it was a horrendous scene. Emotions were running very high.
And in fact, the brother of the victim, he knew that it was the girlfriend, and he starts following -- going in the direction of where her parents live, also not far away. She ditches the SUV and she goes to her parents` house. And that`s where he found her.
He flags down a police car and he says, She`s in there. And that`s how they were able to get her a short time after this happened. So it was a very -- it`s a very active scene and lots of people out on the street. And for the mother to have to see her son lying there, it just -- you know, it really gives you chills up your spine.
COSBY: It`s just absolutely horrible!
Clark Goldband, you -- I want to take it further. The brother goes looking for her, and apparently, no one answers the door at first? There`s some interesting things there.
GOLDBAND: Right, Rita. He tries to chase her down and is outside the door, pounding on the door, trying to track her down. And he can hear the baby-sitter inside the home, screaming, Oh, my gosh, I just hit Franklyn! I don`t know what to do.
At that point in time, he flags down law enforcement and says, Hey, she`s in here. The person who just hit my brother is in here. And that`s when the arrest is made.
COSBY: And Kat McCullough, you`re there, out at the scene. Just give us a sense of how crazy it is. And did a lot of people see anything? I mean, we`re hearing screeching, we`re hearing, you know, hit this young man twice. What`s the sense from eyewitnesses there, Kat?
MCCULLOUGH: Well, the family here has created sort of a memorial just outside of the house. There`s a lot of family members gathered here to remember this young man. They say they`re shocked. They can`t believe that this has happened.
COSBY: Kat, are there any eyewitnesses? Are there people who are coming out and say, Look, I heard the screech, other than family members?
MCCULLOUGH: No. Just the family members are here on the scene. The brother has said that he heard the tires, and also that he heard her say, You broke my F-ing iPhone, shortly before the tires and the accident.
COSBY: You know what I think is incredible? And Clark Goldband, you know, Kat was just talking about it -- you know, we all have these phones, you know? You know, all of us have these different devices here.
GOLDBAND: Sure. Sure.
COSBY: Can you imagine something like this leading to it? He drops the iPhone. You know, we just talked about it happens all the time. And yet she seemed to take particular offense to this. She also had some financial issues, too, right?
GOLDBAND: That`s right, Rita. And it`s important to point out that her brother, the baby-sitter`s brother, says, Sure, she has a temper. She gets upset. But hey, if you come close to fire, you`re going to get burned, insinuating that something must have set her off.
And Rita, you know, these things can be had for $600 full price. It`s hard to imagine that it could have come to this.
COSBY: It is. It is absolutely disgusting!
We are taking your calls, everybody. Also, send us your question on Facebook. Let`s go to Jason from Canada, who`s on the line. Jason, what`s your question tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Rita. You`re doing a great job tonight.
COSBY: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I have one quick question. I was just wondering if she was on drugs at the time this all went down.
COSBY: That`s a great question. Let`s go to Brett Larson. Brett, drugs, drinking involved?
LARSON: We don`t have any reports on that. The police haven`t spoken about whether or not she was on drugs at the time. Certainly, that would be something they would have to consider.
It`s also fair to point out the sort of sad irony that she runs over a guy for breaking her phone in this luxury SUV. You know, she`s got money problems and she`s upset over a broken phone, but she`s still got this fancy SUV, this Lincoln Aviator SUV, that she runs the kid over with.
COSBY: Yes, it is. It`s just absolutely despicable!
Carol D`Auria, as you hear all of this, Carol -- witnesses, surveillance video -- the first thing I thought about is what if there`s this little videotape? She claims that (INAUDIBLE) happened to be in the way. But suddenly, the videotape shows her going over and over him again. I don`t know if that exists. Is there such a tape?
D`AURIA: Well, there is -- I`m thinking that there probably is some surveillance tape because there are lots of stores. This is a busy intersection. And there were people out. I mean, it was about 2:00 o`clock in the morning.
And the police have said, the police commissioner, Ray Kelly, has said that there was some drinking involved. And he says that she was in the car. She made a U-turn. She gunned the motor, plowed him down and then just kept going.
And so they have -- it`s either surveillance tape or they were able to find a witness on the street. But they have other people because the family did not see this. The family heard it. They`re ear-witnesses, if you will, but -- so they have to have something else. But the police commissioner was very firm, a U-turn, she guns it, plows him down and keeps going.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Taft High School student was in an argument with his 25-year-old girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reportedly mad that her 17-year-old boyfriend broke her iPhone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Run down by an SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 17-year-old boy lays dead in the street!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are investigating whether it was intentional.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. We`re taking your calls, everybody. Also, reach out to us on Facebook.
Let`s go to Zerias (ph) from Washington state. What`s your question, Zerias?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. You say that she was the boy`s baby-sitter, and she`s 25 years old. He`s 17. That`s about an 8-year difference. Isn`t that statutory rape?
COSBY: That`s a very good question. Let`s actually go to Susan Moss. She`s a family law attorney, also a victims` advocate. Obviously, it varies state to state. The other thing, and a good point that you bring up, Zerias, my first reaction is, What the heck is going on here with this relationship?
They apparently were dating, Susan, for two years. And the other thing is, she was living, I think, with him and his family, which gets more and more bizarre. But explain the statutory rape possible in this case.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, since we`re talking about an iPhone, I guess we can ask Siri! But what the answer is, in New York state, the age of consent is 17. So if they were having some sort of sexual relationship during his 17th year, which is the age when he passed, unfortunately, it would not be a crime.
But they`d been dating together for two years. So that means he was 15 when they started and she was 23. If there is any evidence that they were having a sexual relationship at that time, in addition to all the other crimes, she will be charged with statutory rape.
COSBY: Does it matter if the family pursues it, the prosecutors pursue it? It sounds like -- you know what I think is the most bizarre thing, Susan? The family was allowing her to live with him. I don`t know how long they were aware of this relationship, but they`re saying now that it was two years. That`s a little bizarre.
MOSS: That`s very bizarre for a baby-sitter. I mean, this never happened to Mary Poppins! But the fact that the family allowed this also is part of the problem because this woman apparently had a violence problem. She had a temper problem. Everyone knew about it, and something should have been done beforehand.
COSBY: I agree. It`s disgusting! Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, what`s your reaction to hearing that this woman, the baby-sitter, has a two-year relationship with the guy? He`s 15 at the time. She`s eight years older.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think the deadly combination is that you have a 17-year-old who`s desperate for security. I mean, she`s a security officer. She was his baby-sitter. His own family doesn`t seem to be playing much of a role in terms of making his home life secure. So he`s insecure.
And she has a pathological need for power. You see it in the SUV. You see it in the fact that she beat him up that -- she was a security officer, so she gravitated towards a role of power.
And the moment that he dropped the iPhone was the moment she lost control. And when the iPhone shattered, so did she. She lost it. Her feelings outpaced her ability to think. She was extremely disregulated (ph). They were both drinking.
She ran into the street. And I believe she wanted to smash his head like he smashed the iPhone. The reporter brought out that point. It`s very important. It`s like eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, head for an iPhone. And that is very...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Bethany, how -- how disgusting and how heartbreaking, huh? I mean, just how shameful that somebody would do that!
BETHANY: You know what`s shameful, Rita? One of the family members went to the street to come to his aid, and he tried to speak and bubbles came out of his mouth. This was a family report. The trauma that this child endured and the family endured in having to witness this scene is just really unimaginable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-five-year-old Jasmine Diaz ran over her boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still can`t believe my little brother`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crushed by the SUV!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Been arguing over a broken cellphone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right, her iPhone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was very crazy, a very crazy person. They used to fight a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. A baby-sitter turned lover runs over her much younger boyfriend, and you heard it, all over a device like this, an iPhone. Can you believe it? It`s just crazy! We all have BlackBerrys and iPhones. And apparently, the boyfriend dropped it by accident. She went ballistic, and then -- now she is accused of running over him not once but twice, according to her family members. She is charged with first degree manslaughter.
Let`s go to Clark Goldband because I think, Clark, when I think -- first of all, the whole thing is disgusting! You know, we all have -- you know, you drop your iPhone. It`s just -- the whole thing is shameful, this poor man dead in the street. His family has to see it. They have to track her down.
If you believe her story, she -- Oh, he just happened to be standing there. I didn`t realize that -- is there any evidence she tried to stop? Is there any evidence she tried to help this young man? What about call 911?
GOLDBAND: Absolutely none, Rita.
COSBY: Not at all?
GOLDBAND: I would even argue the opposite because, like we talked about, this victim`s brother went down the street trying to find her, and he could hear her behind a locked door that she allegedly was not answering, could hear her screaming, Oh, no, I hit him! What do I do, if the reports are to be believed.
And Rita, accidents happen! Who hasn`t dropped their phone before?
COSBY: Yes, absolutely. And by the way, even if you believe her story that she accidentally -- which, of course, doesn`t sound the cops are buying, her family -- rather, his family doesn`t seem to be buying it, either. But then you stop.
A normal person, if you accidentally hit someone, you don`t flee the scene. You say, Oh, my gosh, look what happened. First of all, you don`t hit them to begin with, but if you do accidentally hit him, you call for help, by the way. That`s what a normal person does.
And clearly, Pat Brown, criminal profiler, this person is not normal.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: OK, Rita. I`m going to -- I`m going to say something really different from what everybody is saying so everybody can be mad at me. I`m going to play the defense argument, which is unusual. First of all...
COSBY: All right, go ahead, Pat. Bring it on!
BROWN: All right.
COSBY: Bring it on, Pat!
BROWN: First of all, I agree with Bethany about the woman`s general personality. I think she`s got a power thing. She`s hanging out with a young kid she shouldn`t be with. She has fancy (ph) stuff. I agree with that.
However, I think the family -- the family cannot be believed, either, because they let this woman stay with them. They let their son hang out with them and let him drink with them.
And also, the boy chased the woman. She left the scene, and the boy went after her. She left the scene of the argument. The boy went after her. So that`s the problem.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventeen-year-old Frankie Hernandez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Run down by an SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Because her boyfriend reportedly accidentally broke her iPhone! That`s right, her iPhone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope she goes to prison forever!
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace.
A babysitter-turned-lover, now is accused of running over her much younger boyfriend. Apparently running over her not once but twice.
Let`s go to Kat McCullough, she`s our NANCY GRACE producer who`s out on the scene. Bring us up to speed again, Kat. What happened here?
KAT MCCULLOUGH, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right behind me, on Wednesday, in the early morning, 25-year-old Jasmine Diaz got into a fight with her teenaged lover, a boy she used to baby sit, she alleged that he broke her iPhone. It escalated, she came out into the street and he followed after her. She then got into her SUV and ran him over repeatedly, then drove off.
COSBY: And no evidence she tried to stop, no evidence she tried to help him, and she is claiming it was an accident, right, Kat?
MCCULLOUGH: That`s right. She`s claiming that he went right in front of her car and that she just kept going. But why would you keep going if it was an accident? You would stop and get help from the man that you loved.
COSBY: Absolutely. And apparently now we`re hearing she screeched off, I mean, quite a dramatic speed off and hiding in an apartment, too, when someone was knocking on the door until authorities come.
Let`s go to Dr. William Morrone, he`s a medical examiner, forensic, also pathologist.
Dr. Morrone, first of all, what kind of a damage -- when you hear the story, it`s a gold Lincoln Aviator, a big SUV. What kind of damage could that cause to an individual? I mean how massive a damage could that cause?
DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER; FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST: If she hit him once, you`re looking at simple fractures. If she hit him at high speeds and ran over him multiple times, you`re looking at crumbled, crushed and fragmented bone. So that`s why the autopsy is going to show that if this is an accident she hit him once or if she ran over him two or three times and hit him at high speeds, there`s a tremendous difference in the damage of the bone in this -- in the victim.
COSBY: And Dr. Morrone, what we`re hearing from everybody who`s out there on the scene, so this was a horrible scene. The family members say that like she basically ran over his head. And also if you listened to them they say that he was run over twice. Can you prove that through forensics as well?
MORRONE: You can prove that he was hit multiple times and based on the difference between the damage, you can say that was from the first blow and that was from the second blow.
COSBY: Can you tell the difference between being struck by a vehicle, her story, versus being run over?
MORRONE: Actually, that`s going to be more difficult. But looking at how an accident versus somebody being hit, if somebody has multiple damages, that`s no accident.
COSBY: And everybody, we are taking your calls. Also we want to hear from you on Facebook and Twitter. We are getting all your questions tonight. A lot of you have a lot of questions to this bizarre case.
Let`s go to Blair from Texas who`s on the line.
Blaire, what`s your question tonight?
BLAIR, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi. My question is, why in the world would she actually give the iPhone to her boyfriend if she was so afraid of him breaking it? I don`t understand that.
COSBY: Yes. If she was so protective why hand it over? On the other hand, Blair, you don`t expect an iPhone for whatever reason, if he drops it by accident, it`s no reason to run over somebody.
But let`s go to Carol D`Auria. Was she one of those people who was like protective? What do we know about this person, Carol? Was she protective over her goods? Was she upset that he even took it or was it just -- he carries it all the time and happened to drop it?
CAROL D`AURIA, REPORTER, 1010 WINS, SPOKE TO FAMILY OF SLAIN TEENAGER: Well, I don`t know about that. The family said that he simply dropped it. But what we do know from the family again is that she has just this explosive type of personality. A sister of the victim told me that she actually called her an abusive person. She said it was an abusive relationship that this woman, Diaz, Jasmine Diaz, was always hitting the victim every time they argued.
And unfortunately, she said that her brother was just crazy, madly in love with her. And that even though she didn`t treat him well, he just was gaga over her.
The sister also claimed that Jasmine Diaz was trying to take him away from the family. That he was trying to alienate him.
Now, you know, how much of this is true, it`s coming from a family that is distraught. They just lost their youngest brother, the youngest member of the family, but they insist that this was an abusive relationship all along.
COSBY: And Clark Goldband, it gets even more bizarre. I have to ask you what she apparently told a cellmate. Remember, she`s been taken into custody, it`s first-degree manslaughter. But she`s talking in her jail cell. What is this -- what is she telling her new neighbor there?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Rita, she was in a cell, sharing a holding cell with someone who was apparently arrested for shoplifting, according to reports, and she told her cellmate she`s still in love with the boyfriend and she feels like expletive deleted, you see it on your screen.
COSBY: Wait, wait, wait. I got to get this back again, Clark. She said she still loves him. Run over twice, possibly. She`s charged with first-degree manslaughter. That`s what they`re accusing her of at this point. And she says, I still love him? Does she realize he`s not on this planet anymore, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Right. According to reports she told that cellmate, she still loves him and she feels quite badly about it, although she didn`t say it in that way. According to reports that she`s so upset that this happened, she feels like expletive.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, you hear this. Still loves him and, you know, she feels blank. What kind of a human being is this?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, she`s minimizing the severity of what happens. She`s profoundly immature. She has no insight into what`s about to happen to her.
This is a young woman who feels she can control everything and everybody, and that`s why she lost it at the court. That was yet another iPhone moment, where she did not get her way. And we know, according to this report, what she did when she left that courtroom.
Pat Brown brings up an excellent point. Why did this family not protect this young 17-year-old? There are so many story holes. Why were they arguing and drinking at 2:00 in the morning? Where were the parents? Did they feel that because this 17-year-old was so love obsessed with the 25-year-old, that if she did not -- if they did not allow her to move in, they would lose control of the 17-year-old?
And finally, the worst thing you can do with an abuser is move them into the house with the victim. Because what happens is it stimulates all of their worst feelings that lead to the abuse. Rejection, envy, loss of control. Feeling insulted. So they actually created the hot bed, the family created the hot bed, the mess that they were, I think on some level, trying to avoid.
COSBY: Yes, it is such a mess, Susan Moss, family law attorney, when you hear this. Again, they allow him to move in, and there`s sort of -- you know, obviously it`s not an equal relationship. She`s a babysitter. She`s babysitting the guy. He`s much younger. She`s 15 at the time when they start the relationship. And now we know she may have hit him over the head with a bottle. She erupts in court.
How do you go after this woman? How do you -- how do you piece this case together?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Yes. And this was all for an iPhone. What would she do for a Klondike bar? Well, the big issue here is whether this is going to be manslaughter or murder. Whether they can show intent --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Yes, why is it not murder? Susan, why is it not murder? That was first my thought, too. Why is it not?
MOSS: Absolutely beats me. And I`ll tell you why they can make a murder case. They can make a murder case because she gets into this car, she drives away. But then she does a U-turn. And why does she do a U- turn? She does a U-turn to get him and she sees him and the witnesses say that they heard her just gun the engine. They hear the rubber from the tires go after him and the next thing they know, not once but perhaps twice, she runs over him and then she escapes the scene.
If this was an accident, if he accidentally ran in front or he was to blame, she wouldn`t have left the scene. She wouldn`t have hid in her mother`s apartment. She would have come out. She would have explained herself and she would have tried to get help for the man she -- the boy she allegedly loves.
COSBY: And I`m glad you said boy because he was 15 when they started dating. Again, the babysitter. An obviously just a horribly volatile relationship and a completely destructive relationship.
Bradford Cohen, defense attorney. Look, I agree with Susan that intent is going to be the key. And you see all this, you know, Bradford, you go wait a minute, OK, she claims he happened to somehow end up in front of the vehicle. She screeches away, she`s hiding away, then she admits yes, she did hit him. Sounds like she acknowledges that she hit him but screeches away. That`s not going to hold it very well.
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s a couple of things that you`re looking at that might hold up very well actually.
COSBY: Yes, what?
COHEN: There`s absolutely no witnesses -- there`s absolutely no witnesses to what happened. The family is guessing to what happened --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Although, Brad, although, Brad --
COHEN: Upon hearing screeching of tires.
COSBY: What I will say to you --
COHEN: Sure.
COSBY: The authorities have come out very quickly and said this is what we believe happened. They somehow know this U-turn. So I believe --
COHEN: Well, true. They can say --
COSBY: We don`t know exactly what we have. They probably have surveillance tape, they probably have maybe other eyewitnesses. It doesn`t sound like they`re just basing this on the family.
I agree with you, if it`s just family they can say they`re biased witnesses. But it sounds like they`ve got more.
COHEN: And even if it`s not just family, even if there is additional witnesses to it, you still have to prove the fact that whether or not he stepped in the way of the vehicle when she was making a U-turn to go back to her mother`s house. The thing is, is that even if she did make that U- turn, that is not first-degree murder. That is a manslaughter, if he jumped in front of the car, then it`s nothing. Then it`s an accident.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Frankie, she hit Frankie with the car.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Seventeen-year-old Franklin Hernandez was run down by an SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say 25-year-old Jasmine Diaz ran over her boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Left the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s a very crazy -- very crazy person. They would fight a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reportedly accept accidentally broke her iPhone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace.
Well, the babysitter turned lover told a cellmate just recently, I still love him. The little problem is, she apparently may have run over him twice. Killing him, crushing his head.
Let`s go to Renee Rockwell, defense attorney. Renee, why is this not murder if indeed she ran over him twice?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what, I think they`re being real safe with this charge of manslaughter. This is not a slam-dunk. If they had so many witnesses, they would have charged her with murder.
Don`t forget, it`s 2:00 a.m., so if there are surveillance tapes, they might not be valuable. And also, if there were so many witnesses, they would have already come forward. The longer and the older a case gets, the more difficult it gets to prove. The better case they may have against her is a stat rape, a statutory rape. Because she`s going to sit in that jail cell and she`s going to tell her cellmate everything about the relationship. That may be the safest crime that the prosecutor can proceed with.
COSBY: But Renee, do you think any jury is going to say, oh, he just happened to walk in front of the vehicle twice?
ROCKWELL: You don`t know because she has no burden. She has no burden. If the state is going to come forward and --
COSBY: What about -- what about a surveillance video. Let me play devil`s advocate, Renee. What about if there`s a surveillance video that shows her going over his head, oh, shoot, I didn`t do a good enough job, let me go over it again?
ROCKWELL: OK. Well --
COSBY: What if there`s a surveillance -- then it is a pretty good slam-dunk.
ROCKWELL: OK. What if the surveillance video shows her hitting him, he`s down, she may have run over him, she goes, oh my god, throws it in reverse and backs over him again. That`s quite different from -- her going over and coming back --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: All right -- Renee, even if there is a videotape like that, she screeches off. I don`t see her calling, look, 911. Oh my goodness.
ROCKWELL: OK. That`s something different.
COSBY: That is going to kill her. That`s going to hurt her, big time.
ROCKWELL: It`s different if you flee the scene. You don`t know how people are going to react in a state of shock. I`d be more concerned if she did --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: What about the poor guy? Renee, what about the poor guy sitting there dying? You know, I don`t really care about whose state of shock.
ROCKWELL: OK.
COSBY: I care about the guy who whose apparently head is run over.
ROCKWELL: In many states that, too, is a crime to have a hit and run and leave the scene, but it`s not murder.
COSBY: Absolutely.
ROCKWELL: It`s not murder.
COSBY: But it certainly can be used against her and they would say that in court. And then she`s hiding there, they`ve got to find it. She`s apparently admitted that she did it, so she apparently knew and left the scene. And then there`s this argument. She hits him on the head with a bottle, she claims it`s over an iPhone, she screams in court, Renee? This is no choir girl.
ROCKWELL: No, no, no. And it`s not what you want your client to do when you`re trying to get her a bond. Go ahead and upset the judge. But I still think that it`s something that the state is going to have to work very hard on to get a conviction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The relationship was volatile.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty-five-year-old Jasmine Diaz was reportedly mad that her 17-year-old boyfriend broke her iPhone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She got into her gold Lincoln parked nearby and ran him over.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She ran over him twice with this SUV.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. She allegedly ran over her boyfriend. Guess what? He`s eight years younger. She`s 25. He`s 17. They`ve been dating for two years. You do the math. Statutory rape, get it? He was 15 at the time they dated. And now they`ve been dating for two years. She was his baby-sitter. And apparently she ran him over after they had an argument with something that a lot of us use, you know, here it is, the iPhone, you know, BlackBerries, these devices.
Apparently he accidentally dropped it and she goes ballistic.
Let`s go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Have you ever heard of a case like this where somebody would go to this extreme if indeed that`s the case, over an iPhone?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "ONLY THE TRUTH": Rita, I think we`ve got to look at the facts. The fact is unless there`s medical evidence that she premeditatedly ran him over, some videotape, it`s going to be an accident that she ran from. It`s going to be -- is this going to be an accident she fled from?
Let`s look at the facts. She was in his apartment, he broke her phone. Why he broke her phone? Accident, we don`t know, maybe he stomped on it, maybe he threw it. She left the apartment --
COSBY: Yes, but Pat, Pat --
BROWN: Wait, wait, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: None of this would justify her actions. No wait a minute, Pat. None of this will justify --
BROWN: No, no, no. Rita --
BROWN: You know what, she did --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: If indeed you buy her story, and she fled.
BROWN: Rita, we don`t know if she did that. She left the apartment. He followed her --
COSBY: We know she fled. We know she fled.
BROWN: No, he --
COSBY: She knows she hit him and she fled.
BROWN: No. Whether it`s accidental or not.
BROWN: Rita. Rita, let me talk. They were in the apartment --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: These are the facts.
BROWN: Rita, they were in the apartment. She left the apartment. It was his apartment. He followed her. She left the hallway. She left the building. He followed her. She --
COSBY: After she hit him on the head with a bottle accidentally.
BROWN: No. We don`t know. This is the family. She gets in her car then she leaves --
COSBY: Did he stand under the bottle, too, Pat? Did that happen? He stood under the bottle?
BROWN: We don`t know that. We don`t know anything about that. All we know is she left three locations --
COSBY: Well, what we do know --
BROWN: The apartment --
COSBY: We do know that authorities -- Pat, you`re a great criminal profiler. We know from authorities they came right away and said she did a U-turn. They charged her with manslaughter.
BROWN: She might have --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: She ran out of the building. She`s in -- she`s furious. She`s trying to get away from the guy. She jumps in her car, she makes a U-turn, he runs into the road in front of her because he`s been following her and she hits him. It turns into an accident, and it -- it`s a fleeing from the accident. Unless, Rita, unless, they can prove by medical reports she premeditatedly ran him over or by a videotape. That`s the facts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still can`t believe my little brother`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A shocking crime.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Seventeen-year-old Franklin Hernandez was run down by an SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Because her boyfriend reportedly accidentally broke her iPhone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The couple may have been arguing over a broken cell phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. Arguing apparently over an iPhone, and that may be what set her off to go berserk. To allegedly run over her boyfriend, her teenage boyfriend, she was the baby- sitter, eight years difference. She`s 25, 17. They`ve been dating two years. That is a whole other story I think of shame.
But, you know, Susan Moss, family law attorney, when I hear this, some of the comments I`ve heard tonight are shameful. Like what did he -- he stood in front of the vehicle twice, he -- have his head rolled over? I`m waiting to hear that next.
MOSS: And next thing it was his fault because even though bubbles were coming out of his mouth he wasn`t able to get out of the way. The only irony -- the only irony is. is that now that her boyfriend`s dead, who`s she going to call?
COSBY: Yes, and you know what? What I think is so crazy -- you know, Bradford, when you hear this, I still love him, I still, you know, if you listen to all this stuff, this woman has lost it completely. Don`t you agree? How are you going to defend somebody like this, Bradford?
COHEN: No, I don`t agree at all. Actually it proves that it was an accident.
COSBY: What, you think this -- you think a normal -- you think a normal person says, I still love him? Like he`s still alive? Like he`s coming back to life?
COHEN: Yes. Yes. If it was an accident, sure.
COSBY: He`s going to rise from the ashes? Come on.
COHEN: Rise from the ashes, she`s distraught, she`s saying that she still loves him even though she -- what happened happened.
COSBY: Yes. It was just that --
COHEN: And in fact the brother who heard --
COSBY: It was just that -- what, Bradford? What was that -- one bad night, that one bad night, that one little mistake, like running over him twice?
COHEN: Who`s saying that one bad night? Rita, the fact is the brother heard her say, oh, my god, what should I do? I hit him. I hit him. That sounds like an accident to me. I don`t know what it sounds like to you, Rita.
COSBY: All right.
COHEN: Does that sound like something she did on purpose?
COSBY: Well, what it sounds -- it sounds like to me someone who ran from the scene, who doesn`t call 911, Bradford, and is hiding out when someone`s knocking on the door.
COHEN: Right.
COSBY: It sounds like someone who knows she did something wrong.
COHEN: That doesn`t mean it`s not an accident.
COSBY: Well, you know what, I think there are videotapes, there are clearly other eyewitnesses.
COHEN: I don`t.
COSBY: If you look at her actions -- this is not someone who said, let me help him. Let me go back, maybe I accidentally hit him. She knew she hit him, she fled. And I think that that is going to show intent and these fights before are going to show intent. It`s going to be a tough case, Bradford.
COHEN: I have to disagree. Not only am I going to disagree, but I think there`s no videotape. I think how the police put it together were the tire marks.
COSBY: So police just make it up, police just make it up, too, Bradford? Is that the next thing you`re going to say?
COHEN: I`m not -- well, that wouldn`t be new. But I`m not saying they did. What I`m saying is they probably looked at the tire marks, leaving the scene, and also the U-turn and put two and two together. And that`s where they came up with the U-turn.
COSBY: Well, I think that she`s going to have a lot of trouble here, guys. And I do believe there`s probably some sort of surveillance tape. There`s probably a lot more eyewitnesses outside the family. And I think there`s a lot more to this case. Remember, she still loves him. Still loves him.
Well, tonight, everybody, let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Jason Lucas, 24 years old from Columbus, Ohio, killed in Afghanistan. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He loved baseball, golf, bowling and hunting. He leaves behind parents Bill and Beth, his sister Samantha, his widow and high school sweetheart, Monica, and sons Zaustin and Ethan.
Jason Lucas, a true American hero.
And thank you to all our guests. Our biggest thank you, of course, is to you for joining us every night.
I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. Stay tuned. Dr. Drew is next.
END
