Return to Transcripts main page


Teen Prostitution; Chilling Testimony in Sandusky Trial

Aired June 14, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Parents, listen up: teen prostitution is happening right under our noses. Hundreds of thousands of kids are at risk of becoming sex slaves right here in America.

I am speaking to a former teen prostitute and she will tell us this harrowing story.

Call us at 855-DRDREW5 with your questions.

And later, the Jerry Sandusky rape child, a former pro hockey player who is a sex abuse survivor is with me live.

So, let`s get started.


PINSKY: One hundred and forty thousand dollars, that is how much a pimp or a sex trafficker can make of an underage girl in just one year. Unbelievable.

You think the sex trade exists only in third world countries or somewhere else other than Stateside here, you better think again. You`ve got to think about whether your teen daughter is safe. Watch this.


PINSKY (voice-over): Police in Canada say they have never seen anything like it. Two Ottawa teenagers are charged with human trafficking in a stunning case.

Two 15-year-old girls are accused of luring underage girls to this apartment, kidnapping them and taking them to other parts of the city. Authorities say the teens then forced the alleged victims into sex acts with adult clients. They may have been drugged. And girls as young as 8 and 9 are being sold as sex slaves in Los Angeles.

The county just created a public awareness campaign to let people know that the trafficking of children is thriving in their own backyards.


PINSKY: And according to the U.S. Department of Justice, nearly 300,000 American children are at risk right now of being sold into sex slave trade.

Now, why is child prostitute thriving in America? First of all, I want your questions about this topic and comments. It`s 855-DRDREW5.

Joining me to discuss this is Shelley Lubben. She is a former teen prostitute. She actually had prostituted out other girls as well.

Shelley, you still live with great regret. Tell me about that.

SHELLEY LUBBEN, FORMER TEEN PROSTITUTE: I do live with regret. One of the girls that I pimped out after I learned how to become a madam was a virgin and she lost her virginity to a creepy old man. And I always felt bad about that.

And being in prostitution as well as being a madam, you know, I hurt my own daughter. She is still trying to recover from the affects of what went through prostitution. And I obviously regret hurting all the families. I mean, how many married men did we see, playing tricks with them. You know, I`m still apologizing to this day.

PINSKY: How did you get out?

LUBBEN: That`s big story, we don`t have time for that but I actually ultimate lives led -- after being a madam and getting burned out, I went to the porn industry and became a porn actress. And ultimately, after about 30 movies, I caught herpes, a non-curable disease and it traumatized me, it devastated me.

And not long after that, I met a guy who actually loved me and talked to my face. It was years since a man had actually talked to my face and was genuine. Most men talk to our body parts. So, I was intrigued by this guy and I ended up marrying him and we have been married 17 years now.

PINSKY: Congratulations.

I think people -- it was funny, we were talking amongst the staff about this issue of prostitution and pornography and the overlap between the two some of my staff was saying, well, pornography is really just prostitution because you are being paid to have sex with people.

How do people that do this stuff compartmentalize all of that? What do you think about that?

LUBBEN: Pornography is frustration. They`re all in denial. Everybody just wants the money. That`s what it is about.

If you offer any of these porn stars, you know, $50,000 they would leave immediately, and do something else with their life.

So, we`re all there for the money. Most people come from bad backgrounds or like backgrounds with sexual abuse.

In my day in the `90s, it was very common for prostitutes to go into porn. Nowadays, the average middle class American girl can go right into porn. She believes a life that`s glamorous, because that`s what porn stars do, they paint this big life, so glamorous. But it`s all about the money and it`s all about the sexual background.

I actually write in my book about how women in porn have the classic porn star background, CPSB. And we are all in denial, and we have defense mechanisms we built up in order to keep going. But most of these women are jaded and they don`t really realize that they are sex trafficking victims.

PINSKY: OK, let`s take some phone calls.

Justina, you are in Pennsylvania. What do you want to ask?

JUSTINA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you, Dr. Drew, for taking my call.

I actually have a friend who is a prostitute willingly, she was drawn into it, I think. And I kind of used to think how degrading it was and then when I found out she was prostituting. I mean, I -- it`s kind of made me look at it in a different light and in some ways, she is, I guess you could say, was more of like a high-end prostitute in a way. She books people in hotels and I think her boyfriend kind of pimps her out.

PINSKY: Oh, my gosh, the boyfriend is the pimp, is that right?

JUSTINA: Yes, I mean, that`s right, I think.

PINSKY: This is what I`m talking about, Justina, this is not compartmentalization where, oh, wait, I`m not a prostitute, I`m a porn star. Or I`m not a prostitute, I`m an escort. It`s all the same thing, isn`t it? I mean, really, come on.

Let`s not kid ourselves here. But I still not quite clear what you`re saying Justina is why you are thinking differently about this. What do you mean?

JUSTINA: I guess like I used to think it was degrading women who wanted to do this, like a choice and I just kind of I guess I could say kind of have a different -- not a different viewpoint but looking at it all angles, because I see what she is doing with the money that -- she has already made enough to retire. She has paid off like her Range Rover.

PINSKY: But are you -- what are you saying? Are you allured by this? Are you disgusted by this?

JUSTINA: A little. I mean, it`s almost -- I mean, the way that she - - you know, she has actually tried to get know do it and I`m like, no, no, no.

PINSKY: OK. All right. So, Shelly, what do you say to somebody that`s having this glorious experience? What`s the price to her soul?

LUBBEN: First of all, she is lying about her glorious experience. We are trained to do that in prostitution and porn. We`re groomed by either veteran pursers or madams and pimp or porn stars, trained to lie, that is why called hustlers and that`s why one of the most famous magazines in the world is called "Hustler."

But at the end of the day, none of us want to do that. It really is about the money and having no other options or actually believing we don`t have any other options. I actually didn`t know I could go to college.

PINSKY: But the point is, Shelley, there`s a price for getting the money by this means. There`s a price for it. And the price is to your psych and your soul.

Quickly, Blair in Texas -- Blair.

BLAIR, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hey, dr. Drew. How are you doing today?

PINSKY: Great. Good afternoon.

BLAIR: I`ve got a question for Ms. Shelley. That -- when she was a teen prostitute, why would she ever put herself in that position is in the first place is beyond me, because know -- when teens prostitute themselves, it just feels like they -- I don`t know what they are thinking or I don`t know what they would be feeling like when they do that.

PINSKY: Shelley, we have 30 seconds, we keep this conversation going after the break. But how do we help understand that issue?

LUBBEN: All I can say is I was kicked out of the house right after I barely graduate high school. I came from a dysfunctional family. I had a sexual child abuse in my past.

And so when you`re on the street and you haven`t eaten for two days and someone comes up to you and says, do you want to eat? I can get you some money. I mean, you do it. I guess you just have to be there to really know what I have been through.

But as a little girl, never raised my hand to ever be a prostitute.

PINSKY: OK. We`re going to bring a woman into this conversation who is going to be able to answer this question as well and we`ll continue taking your calls, 855-DRDREW5.

Be right back.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t want to be with him anymore for a lot of different reasons and let him know that. And basically, he put a green light on me and I literally had pimps snatching me up left and right. I was raped, I was beat, I was hit by a car. I had guns pulled out on me.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s like a whole new level of depravity when some guy says, you know what, I got a job for you and walks her into this life, because juvenile prostitutes, I would probably say 98 percent of the time or more have a pimp, but that`s somebody who took a kid who was vulnerable, who comes from a broken home, who comes from a very bad set of circumstance in her personal life and just manipulated. And that`s what a pimp is all about, it`s about manipulation.


PINSKY: That was an officer from the sheriff`s department in Los Angeles County. It`s part of a campaign to combat that county`s growing problem with childhood prostitution. That`s what I`m saying. You heard me right, childhood prostitution.

A hundred and seventy-four girls, all under the age of 18, were arrested on prostitution charges in Los Angeles County in 2010 and the problem has not stopped.

Call us now with your questions and comments at 855-DRDREW5.

I`m back with Shelley Lubben, she`s former teen prostitute.

Joining this conversation as well now is Harmony Dust. She is a former sex worker and author of the book, "Scars and Stilettos."

Now, harmony, when we ended, we went to the break, somebody asked what is going on with the teenager`s head. How does this happen?

In your case, you were sort of seduced in by a pimp, really, or somebody you thought was a boyfriend or was your pimp?

HARMONY DUST, FORMER STRIPPER: I didn`t realize later he was pimping me. Yes, he was my boyfriend, somebody I trusted. And, you know, I came from a background of sexual abuse and rape as well. And you know, lived in a violent neighborhood.

And so he came along and he said, you know, he protected me and took care of me and showed up in my life during a time where my mother had also left and my father was gone. And so, here was this guy and the best thing could I say for him was that he was around and he was present. And so --

PINSKY: Vulnerability very similar to what Shelley was saying. She was very vulnerable, she was on the street.

Let`s keep taking calls.

Lisa in Ohio -- Lisa.


PINSKY: Hi, Lisa.

LISA: I have a daughter that is a prostitute and I need a way to be able to talk to her.

PINSKY: She is prostituting currently?

LISA: Yes.

PINSKY: OK. These ladies, how would you speak to somebody -- Shelley, I`ll have you speak in a second. First, Harmony --

DUST: Well --

LUBBEN: I have parents writing me and what I recommend is showing them our stories and our videos, you know, teens especially. I would love to see a video, and just let them hear our stories, and then they`re going to understand that we`re getting under their skin. They`re going to know, hey, she is talking to me, I have the same story.

And then we invite them, you know, other teens come in to our prostitution, Pink Cross Foundation and help them. I`ll get them resources, I`ll help the family.

I mean, Harmony, too, she has a great ministry to help them. So, that`s what we are all about.

PINSKY: Harmony what would you say?

DUST: I agree to that story. It`s very powerful and that can be a very powerful tool.

The other thing is I would say, to love them unconditionally where they are at and just keep the line of communication open and speak to the value and the potential that`s in them, speak to the dreams and the purpose that`s in their heart, rather than, you know, focusing solely on the disappointment of the circumstances. But speak to where you see them going and where they can be in their life.

PINSKY: Now, Kelly in New York. Kelly? Kelly, are you there?

KELLY, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Yes, I`m there, Dr. Drew. Thank you.

PINSKY: Go right ahead. Yes, ma`am.

KELLY: So my question is, why we keep referring to this as teen prostitution when children can`t consent to sex and why we`re not calling this teen rape?

PINSKY: Why not?

DUST: I just got here. But actually, it is -- legally, by legal definition, it`s trafficking when it involves minors and it is rape.

PINSKY: Yes, I agree with you.

LUBBEN: Actually trafficking whether or not it involves minors or adults. I`m very passionate about saying that all prostitution and pornography is sex trafficking.

According to the United States Sex Trafficking Code: Any adult or child who is obtained for the purposes of a commercial sex act through force, fraud, threat or force of threat, that is sex trafficking.

So, I`m pretty passionate about fighting this and causing awareness to people that all of it is sex trafficking.

PINSKY: I think Mary is my next caller. Mary, are you there?


PINSKY: Hi, Mary. What do you got?

MARY: Hi. Most of my questions were already asked but why --


MARY: The question today is why do you think young girls are selling their bodies?

PINSKY: Why in the first place do they get into this? Shelley --

MARY: Yes -- no, no, no, that was the question on your show, why do you think --


MARY: -- are selling their bodies. And it`s not to blame the girls. How about we blame the pimps and the sex traffickers?

PINSKY: I think that`s point well-taken.

And before Shelley leaves, Shelley is going to leave me after this break, but I want to ask Shelley and Harmony will stay with me, trying to help people get their head around, from your perspective, how a young person -- what are they thinking? How can we get into their heads? Help understand this?

LUBBEN: First of all, the sword young. They are vulnerable. They have no experience with the sex industry.

Most of the women, like I said, either have some kind of sexual abuse or dysfunctional family, neglect. They need money. I mean, nobody does this business unless you need money.

And these men are much older. I always say the porn industry and prostitution is a male-dominated industry. We have older males dominating young girls and intimidating them. That is what prostitution is about.

PINSKY: Thank you, Shelley. We are going to keep these calls going.

Remember, the number is 855-373-7395. Harmony stays with me and your calls after the break.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a friend I think I knew the whole time I was out on the streets. She was a bit older than me, really sweet person, she died not too long ago. She got shot point-blank range in the head and died by a trick or a pimp, we don`t know. And she never knew her self- worth. She never -- she always thought she was going to be just what she was and she could have been so much more.


PINSKY: Speaking there was a former teen prostitute from southern California. Her story is featured in a new campaign to combat Los Angeles County`s child sex slave problem.

Harmony Dust is here with me. She has an organization, nonprofit group called Treasures.

Want to tell us quickly about that?

DUST: Yes, we are an outreach and support group for women in the sex industry based in San Fernando Valley, which is the porn capital of the world.

PINSKY: Congratulations.

DUST: Thank you.

Yes, we provide them -- we have a therapist, a support group, a peer mentoring program and we give them the resources that they need to recover.

PINSKY: So the way out is --

DUST: I would say healthy community is a big part of the way out.

PINSKY: You mean the rest of us?


PINSKY: Healthy community, you mean reaching out to healthy community?

DUST: For the women to get connected to a healthy community, because I --

PINSKY: The biggest problem -- I`m sorry to interrupt you, is that lot of these women, they are involved in this trade, as Shelley was talking about. They are lying, and they are in denial and they don`t want help.

DUST: Yes.

PINSKY: If you are dealing with somebody like that, how do you get through to them?

DUST: Well, that`s -- I mean, that`s really the challenge is that -- I mean, in the recovering world, the person has to want it. So, we do -- we invite them into relationship. We give them an invitation to receive support but they have to make that hard choice and they have to take the first step in their recovery.

And they have to do the hard work at the end of the day, but if they are willing, we are there for them.

PINSKY: And your story was primarily got into stripping and that kind of stuff. You didn`t actually go into prostitution?

DUST: No, but I think that many of the women coming out of those areas of the industry, they are dealing with the same set of issues.

PINSKY: Same stuff.

All right. Let`s go to some more calls here.

This is Gail, I believe -- is that right, Gail in Georgia. Gail, are you with us?

REBECCA, CALLER FROM D.C.: This is Rebecca in D.C.

PINSKY: All right. Rebecca, go ahead.

REBECCA: Yes. I was just hoping, Dr. Drew, that somebody could explain the connection between childhood sexual trauma and prostitution. It is cited often and I don`t think (INAUDIBLE) --

PINSKY: Rebecca, thank you for asking that because it is something -- people make fun of me for bringing up sexual abuse so often in regards to all kinds of dysfunctional behavior. But nowhere is it more clear than in women who become prostitutes, who almost always see some kind of sexual trauma, whether they remember it or not. Usually it`s overt, usually it`s bad.

There are two ways to think about it you will give subjective ways since you experienced it, correct?

DUST: Yes.

PINSKY: OK. Do the objective way to look at it is, humans have an uncanny capacity to recreate terrorizing experiences from their past. When something sort of shatters their ability to tolerate something as a child, they`ll recreate it, be attracted to that -- that terror turns into attraction to people and circumstances that end up recreating those same problems of the past.

And after re-traumatizing themselves they get stuck in this cycle of needing to re-traumatize it and reenact. And it`s called compulsive reenactment. Repetition compulsion, they called that.

And nowhere is that more clear than sexual abuse. Also, people say they are trying to master those traumas from the past, like trying to get into them again to make them right once and for all and the same thing happens over and over and over again.

From a subjective point of view, what happens?

DUST: I completely identify with that. And the thing is, as a victim of sexual abuse and rape, you are a victim. I was a victim.

But then in the sex industry, there`s this allure, this false promise of empowerment that I could take what I`ve been victimized by and use it as a tool and as a weapon and as power and to now make money for myself. And so, there was a point where I thought, you know what, I can finally take the upper hand here and exploit of myself what`s always been exploited. You kind of have this learned helplessness that says --


PINSKY: It`s backwards way of thinking like being a slave and then identifying with the slave master.

DUST: Yes.

PINSKY: It`s like I`ll identify with him, guy that has all the power kind and I`ll do it by making myself a slave. In this case, it`s a sex life. Awful.

DUST: Right.

PINSKY: But there`s a way out. We have a seen the recovery. Treasures is a way out.

Thank you so much, Harmony, for joining us.

DUST: Thank you so much for having me.

PINSKY: I do appreciate it.

These are really important issues these days when people are looking at the Sandusky trial every day and wondering what`s going to happen to those kids. We have been talking about women. We will talk about men.

Up next, a former hockey player, Theo Fleury, he, himself, knows the pain of the alleged victims in the Sandusky alleged rape trial. He`s going to take your calls with me next. Again, the number is 855-373-7395.

Why does that guy smile so much? We`ll talk about that and what the heck is going on in his mind after the break.


PINSKY: Coming up, another chilling day of testimony in the Jerry Sandusky child rape trial. Three more alleged victims on the stand. Three more accounts of sexual abuse. One even saying he cried out for help while being molested in Sandusky`s basement.

Will prosecutors wrap up their case by week`s end? And the biggest question of all, will Sandusky, himself, take the stand?

We are taking calls now, 1-855-DRDREW5.


PINSKY: Former Penn State assistant coach, Jerry Sandusky, is on trial for 52 counts of child abuse. Today, three more alleged victims relieve their pain as they testified.

Now, former NHL player Theo Fleury knows that pain quite well. He, himself, was sexually abused by a former coach.

Theo, we are hearing that, in fact, Sandusky, himself, may testify. Is that -- do you think that`s just a symptom of how deep this guy`s denial is or how self-righteous he is?

THEO FLEURY, FORMER NHL PLAYER: Well, what we know about pedophiles and pedophilia is these guys have a tremendous ego and sometimes their ego gets the better of them. If the Bob Costas interview is any indication how sick this guy is, then I would say put him on the stand and let him hang himself.

PINSKY: And, Theo, is -- a lot of people don`t understand that these guys, in their own mind, kind of think that these guys, like, want to participate in it. Is that the kind of seduction you had to go through where this guy sort of enlists you in it and makes you feel responsible? Can you help people understand that experience?

FLEURY: Yes, absolutely. You know, after, you know, following the case closely the last week, you know, Jerry Sandusky is exactly the same guy as the guy that, you know, groomed me, and he was a coach of mine. He had a tremendous influence on my hockey career. And you know, I just wanted to be an NHL hockey player, and however, I got there.

But you know, this guy stood in the way of a lot of things, you know, what a -- you know, my life was completely turned upside down. You know, I got involved heavily into alcohol and drugs and sex and gambling and food addiction and food addictions and all kinds of stuff.

And you know wasn`t until, you know, I finally surrender to something greater than myself that I really started to get on a path of, you know healing and, you know, just -- just feeling comfortable in my own skin again.

PINSKY: You know, Theo, I always tell patients when I see them, if they`ve got bad enough addiction that they need to see me, there is virtually 100 percent probability of childhood abuse of some type, and these days, sexual abuse is one of the most common things.

And I guess why I keep focusing segments on this is I don`t think our country really realizes, you know, this is not some -- Sandusky is not some sort of peculiar outline behavior that happens. It`s happening around them now. You agree with that?

FLEURY: Dr. Drew, it`s not an epidemic, it`s a pandemic.


FLEURY: You know, one in three girls, one in five boys before the age of 18, suffers sexual abuse. So -- you know, in Canada, you know, that`s one quarter of the population. So, we have eight million survivors of sexual abuse. And you know, in the United States, it`s got to be in the hundreds of millions.

PINSKY: Yep. It`s certainly millions and millions. Let`s go to phone calls, my friend. C.E. in Ohio. What do you got?

C.E., OHIO: Hi, Dr. Drew.


C.E.: I was several years sober when I face my abuser. And the moment -- started the confrontation started, I saw the fear well up in his eyes, and it was at that moment that I realized he no longer had power over me. And it was both empowering and liberating. And I walked away. I was able to walk away and forgive him.

PINSKY: Oh, that`s -- the forgiveness part is very powerful. My experience has not been in dealing with patients that go to confront their abuser. It`s not been quite that universally positive. Theo, did you end up in confronting your abuser?

FLEURY: You know what, I -- you know, because our legal system in Canada is so messed up, you know, they actually protect pedophiles up here as opposed to punish them. So, I made sure that I was in a very healthy and strong place in my life before I went to police and, you know, filed a complaint. And basically, what I wanted to accomplish by doing that was to, first of all, expose the system.

PINSKY: Mm-hmm. Oh, I think we lost you there. I think you were probably going to say, second of all, make sure this guy doesn`t do something to anybody else. But let me just say for -- our Skype just froze in a very strange way we`ve never had happened before live television. But I will say, C.E., that for those people who are listening that maybe contemplating confronting their abuser, I wouldn`t rush to do that by any means.

Theo makes an extremely important point. Before you do anything like that, you want to make sure you`re well-healed first. The goal would be, frankly, to make sure this person, whoever he or she might be, does not harm anybody else and that you don`t go out there and expect that somehow, that by simply by confronting them, you`re going to be magically released from the terror that they have been in your life for so long.

Quickly, Ashley in Louisiana. Do you have a question?

ASHLEY, LOUISIANA: Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?

PINSKY: I`m good. Thank you for calling you.

ASHLEY: Really not a question, more of a comment about the Sandusky trial and thinking that if he does take the stand, could he possibly claim that he was a victim, that he was abused as a child? And that is now why - -

PINSKY: Yes -- go ahead. I`m sorry. I interrupted you. I`m just contemplating. Yes. It`s a really interesting question, right?

ASHLEY: I was thinking that.

PINSKY: Well, I`ll tell you what, if he is a sexual predator, which certainly the evidence is mounting, there is no doubt in my mind he was a sexual abuse survivor that doesn`t make the behavior OK in the present. It just doesn`t.

ASHLEY: No, absolutely not.

PINSKY: And here is the reality. If someone has been a sexual abuse survivor and they are feeling like they might perpetrate, get help now. Do not allow this to happen. It is not OK.

If you have any peculiar feelings that you`re ashamed of and you`ve been a sexual abuse survivor, then I tell you, get help before you hurt yourself or hurt somebody else because once you have, I`m sorry, it`s over at that point. And I think you would agree with me, would you not, Ashley?

ASHLEY: Absolutely.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you for that call. And Theo, we lost you there on Skype. I know you`re back with me now. I just want to say thank you for being courageous and sharing the story with us. It is obviously -- you know, your story really contributes something to help people understand what the Sandusky thing is all about and what the impact is going to be on these kids.

FLEURY: Well, it`s -- you know, these guys infiltrate themselves into all kinds of kids` programs and the best advice I can give to parents is, you know, never allow a coach or teacher or a preacher to have any alone time with your kid. There`s no reason for it. It doesn`t need to happen, and you know, especially in hockey and football.

You know, it`s a team sport. So, you know, there`s no necessary -- necessary reason for the coach to have one-on-one time with any kid.

PINSKY: Thank you, Theo. We`re going to go now and switch gears and I want to thank to our callers, too. It`s been very interesting.

Now, we`re going to switch gears and take calls on various topics after the break, 855-373-7395. Call in.


PINSKY: All right. Everybody, I insist you mark your calendars right now. HLN`s live coverage of the Daytime Emmy Award is Saturday, June 23rd at 8:00 p.m. All of your favorite daytime stars will be there. Showbiz will be on the -- showbiz live on the red carpet. I`ll be there. I`m doing a presentation. It will be interesting.

And there`s some special surprises for you guys. So, be sure to tune in and go to for more info. And while you`re there, you can enter our sweepstakes to be somebody that`s brought to the show. Pretty good deal.

All right. I`m going to get your calls now. We got Zach in Pennsylvania -- Zach.


PINSKY: Hi, Zach. What`s up?

ZACH: Hi. I want to know, how did diagnosis of bipolar I or II be made, previous diagnosis of ADHD and a history of substance abuse are also part of the picture.

PINSKY: OK. You were asking a very technical and specific question, but let me give you the broad strokes. In general, I`m of the opinion, and I`m an internist and addictionologist, many of my psychiatric colleagues may disagree with me, which is that you should not be attempting to make a formal psychiatric diagnosis until somebody has been sober in the program for six months.

Now, some of the behaviors and psychiatric symptoms that develop early in the game look like bipolar and d need to be treated as bipolar, because even when it`s withdrawal, treating the hypomanic symptoms from withdrawal can improve the overall course of the condition. It doesn`t mean they`re bipolar.

It means they`re having bipolar systems a year late, and we may all decide they`re not bipolar. ADHD and ADD, every addict that ever treat has that problem. They all have it. That`s just the nature of the disease. So, somebody with addiction and ADD/ADHD should certainly not be treating, in my opinion, with a psychostimulant.

And of course, if the bipolar disorder is, in fact, also there, the psychostimulant maybe a liability for inducing some mania there. Thank you for that question. I want to go to Dalibor, I believe, is the name. Dalibor in Georgia.

DALIBOR, GEORGIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?

PINSKY: I`m fine. How are you? So, what kind of name is that?

DALIBOR: A Croatian.

PINSKY: Croatian. Thank you for joining us. What do you got?

DALIBOR: OK. I want to know why is it so hard for a child abuse victims to come out and tell their story?

PINSKY: Have you had any abuse in your childhood?


PINSKY: No. OK. It`s probably not something I can compartmentalize in a nice, neat package except to say there are sort of major thematics that thee young kids experience. One is, they feel responsible, OK. Now, under the age of 10, it`s a very normal but grandiose posture to believe that you make bad things happen in the world.

You know, parents break up, kids blame themselves. It`s a normal way our brain works in childhood. The problem is when you`ve been traumatized like this and the victimizer, the perpetrator, sort of plays with that, because they, too, were a victim and they know exactly how to play with that and really make the victim feel like they`re responsible for all of this.

If they feel some enjoyment or pleasure from the -- I wouldn`t say enjoyment -- pleasure from the act, they`re very guilty about that and conflicted about that. And they have deep shame, profound shame. And when you feel shame, when you feel -- and shame, by the way, is I am bad as opposed to guilt, I did something bad.

Shame is I am bad. And when you feel deep, intense shame, it`s very hard to come to your own defense. It is very hard to speak about anything. I think that kind of summarizes the deal there. Amanda in Tennessee -- Amanda. Hi, Amanda.

AMANDA, TENNESSEE: Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?

PINSKY: I`m fine. What do you got for me?

AMANDA: Well, I wanted to ask you a question about your topic, about your show from yesterday in regards about relationships between men and women.

PINSKY: You got it.

AMANDA: And what my question is, I`m 29 years old, and I`m ready to really settle down and be in a committed relationship.


AMANDA: But it`s been a long time since I`ve been in one and the reason being, one is because I was a teen mom, I was 17 when I had my son.

PINSKY: Got it.

AMANDA: So, for the past 12 years, I`ve really been focused on going to college, going to school and I did. I received my MBA. But now that I`m 29 --

PINSKY: Wow! You got an MBA?

AMANDA: I did.

PINSKY: Amanda, you`re fighting the odds. You`re beating the odds. Congratulations.

AMANDA: Thank you.

PINSKY: But you now want to settle and have a man, is that right?

AMANDA: Exactly.

PINSKY: Amanda --

AMANDA: I`ve been out the game for a while, so I really don`t know what -- what to do next. It`s really hard to find relationships and really settle down, especially with guys these days.

PINSKY: Listen, you are singing a tune that many women out there have, so you sit tight, Amanda. We`re going to get to your -- the answer for your question and many more questions after the break.


PINSKY: All right. Welcome back. I want to get right back to the phones. I was speaking with Amanda, and Amanda is a teen mom, but she got an MBA and you`re 29 years old. Are you still with me, Amanda?

AMANDA: I`m still here.

PINSKY: All right. So, here`s the deal. There`s a lot of good news in your case. Aside from the fact you`ve just overcome the odds and well done, my dear, you`re looking to date at a time in which men are reentering humanity, their late 20s or early 30s, and a lot of guys are looking to settle down.

And you have all these resources as a person. I would think it`d be very easy for you to find someone. God knows you live in a time when now there`s all these internet mechanisms for meeting people. What is the specific issue that you`re having an issue with? Is it just meeting or knowing how to date again?

AMANDA: It`s actually both. You know, when I do meet a guy that I am interested in, a lot of them are intimidated just because of my educational background and the different goals that I have set for myself that I`e been able to achieve. And I carry a lot of high standards as well, so --

PINSKY: Listen, yes, listen, don`t let that slow you down. If that`s the issue, keep going. If the guy is intimidated or has the sort of male ego issue, he`s not the guy for you anyway. And probably, you want a guy who has more personal resources or potential anyway. That`s all good news, frankly, as far as I`m concerned.

So, you`re meeting guys, you`re dating guys. They get intimidated. I think that`s just sad when guys get like that. It`s really, really sad. So, I say forge on, use the internet, and understand you`re dating at a time when men are sort of interested in settling down. And I don`t think you`ll find a lot of guys too worried about you having been a mom either.

Now, with Father`s Day coming up, we thought you might be interested in this, the website,, says a dad`s dollar worth is about $20,000 a year and a mom`s is $60,000. That`s interesting. That`s certainly the way it is around our house. Happy Father`s Day, everybody.

Let me keep going to the phone calls. Who I got up next here? Come on, guys. Put that next caller up there. Well, I`ve got a Facebook comment.

Belle from Facebook says, "Most of them are worthless like my children`s father, but as in `worth less,` but not my dad." I`m not sure I understand that one.

Here is Amy, Facebook. "My dad`s love, patience, kindness, and decency are priceless beyond any material measure." There we go. That`s good Father`s Day wish. I`m just saying. They`re cutting us down with all that data. Laura in Texas -- Laura.

LAURA, TEXAS: Yes, Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hey, there. What`s going on?

LAURA: Yes. I saw your listing about are men less valuable in the family?

PINSKY: OK. What do you think? Women are more valuable than men being less valuable. What do you got?

LAURA: OK. Well, I just want to tell a little bit of a story. After our mother died, our father raised three daughters and a step-daughter, and this is all while balancing a successful career as a doctor. And sometimes, he had to wear two hats, you know, the mom hat and the dad hat, you know, sort of like, you know, details that were delicate.

PINSKY: This sounds like a story that where dad is invaluable, so right?

LAURA: Oh, yes. Completely. I mean, his dedication to our family goes beyond my expectations or most people`s expectations. And he`s unrelenting and he`s really held our, you know, family together for years.

PINSKY: Here`s what I say. Laura, thank you for the call, and Happy Father`s Day to your dad. I think that`s fantastic

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, actually Happy Father`s Day all around. We have a surprise for you.

PINSKY: Oh, my God! My kids are at here. Oh, my goodness! How are you, guys?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy father`s day.

PINSKY: Thank you. Oh, my goodness. You do get a hug.


PINSKY: I don`t know how they talked you guys into this, but these are my kids. These are triplets. That`s Jordan, this is Douglas. This is Paulina and Happy Fathers Day to me, guys. How did they talk you into this?



PINSKY: Mom. Mom. OK. Is she here? Yes, she`s here. There you go. You got to come out here too, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she did not.

PINSKY: She`s not properly made up? Well, so, what do you want to do for Father`s Day?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you want to do?

PINSKY: I want to get out of town and go to the beach. How does that sound?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That sounds great.


PINSKY: All right. That`s cool. Fantastic.


PINSKY: Look how great you guys look on television. Fantastic. Look what I`m looking at. I`m looking at the camera says that. There`s something on my prompter that says look to the left, it`s a surprise for you. So, thank you, guys. I do appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know it was going to happen?

PINSKY: I had no idea. The last person I saw was you before we came in here. We were just complaining how Jordan never comes around here. They thought you were some sort of phantom. They didn`t actually exist, but thank you for coming, guys. I do appreciate it.

All right. Guys, we`re going to take a break. Enough about this more and calls afterwards after break at 855-373-7395. Be right with you.


PINSKY: Well, I`m begging your forgiveness, thank you for putting up with me and that. That was really kind of nice for me, and I appreciate it. That whole segment my staff was circling around here, I don`t know if you noticed, I seemed kind of weird and awkward. I couldn`t figure out what was going on.

And then, when my stage manager, Dave, he started walking out here, let`s just say I was freaked out.


PINSKY: It`s great to have my kids here and I appreciate them for coming in. And it`s already been a Happy Father`s Day for me. So, I hope you all have a Happy Father`s Day. Take a couple more calls if I can. Carol in Missouri.


PINSKY: Hi, Carol.

CAROL: My question is, I have not had sex with my husband in 14 years.

PINSKY: Oh, boy.

CAROL: Because he -- I`m going to be 65, and he`s 71. He`s had diabetes and high blood pressure, and it`s all the medications they give him.


CAROL: I want to know if there`s something that I can take to get rid of all the urges that I have because I still want it all the time, but I can`t cheat on him because I love him.

PINSKY: God bless you for honoring your vows. That`s what I want to say. And it is through thickness -- sickness and health and, you know, the one thing that people have shown for couples, even as they get considerably older, if they`re sexually having contact at least once a week, there`s much more happiness.

Carol, maybe there`s a way to go to his -- this is what I`d suggest. You go to his doctor and you talk to them about what`s going on. You be very open and honest and you see if you can formulate a plan with his doctor that will sort of bring this relationship back together a little bit. I mean, there are usually things we can do.

CAROL: I went to his bladder doctor and he asked him if he had sex and he said no. And I said, well, we`d like to, but then my husband -- it`s like he`s embarrassed over it so he didn`t want to talk about it with the doctor.

PINSKY: If the doctor is not making you feel comfortable talking about it, you need another doctor. You can get help with this, because this is a common problem. It is a serious problem, and it`s threatening your marriage and your happiness. You find a doctor that can help you and you insist upon talking about it. There are solutions out there.

Karen in Kentucky, I`ve got minute left -- Karen. Karen?


PINSKY: There you are. What do you got?

KAREN: I have really bad panic attacks.

PINSKY: You`re having them right now.

KAREN: What?

PINSKY: You`re having one right now. I can hear it.

KAREN: Yes. Well, it`s gotten to the point I can`t leave my house.

PINSKY: OK. So, you have something called agoraphobia, which is actually fear of crowds, classically, but manifests as being unable to get out in the open, out of the house. Are you on any medication?


PINSKY: What are you taking?

KAREN: I take Xanax.

PINSKY: OK. What you`re in, Karen, is probably chronic withdrawal from the Xanax. And the fact is that, unfortunately, Xanax, it was used more than a couple of weeks can start intensifying anxiety in some people. Are you taking more than a milligram or two a day?

KAREN: No, two milligrams a day.

PINSKY: Yes. That`s more than a milligram or two a day. That`s two milligrams. So, two milligrams is a ton of Xanax, and what`s probably happening is you`re taking it, you`re feeling relived, and then, later in the day, the withdrawal kicks back in, and whatever panic was there is there.

And now, you have withdrawal on top of that. You need a completely different medical management, I`m telling you. Got to get off the Xanax. Do not attempt it alone because you could have seizures, but find a psychiatrist who can really help you.

Happy Father`s Day, everybody. I really appreciate you all watching. Thank you to my kids and my wife for joining me here today. This has been really kind of fun for me, and thank you all for putting up with it. Very interesting program tonight. And guess who`s next, "Nancy Grace."