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Nancy Grace
Ohio Child`s Seizure Death Ruled Murder by Blunt Force Trauma
Aired June 18, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Columbus suburbs. A 4- year-old girl raced to the hospital by Stepmommy. EMTs` and doctors` best efforts fail. Baby Kaylen dies of a seizure.
Bombshell tonight. Not so fast, Stepmommy! Our investigation reveals the blunt force trauma to the baby`s head so severe, the baby girl`s head leaves an imprint in the living room carpet. Not only that, tonight, we learn en route to the hospital, as EMTs are trying to save the baby`s life, Mommy`s busy, busy on her cell phone, doing a drug deal! Oh, yes, Stepmommy, you`re going to hell!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one knew that Kaylen`s third summer would be her last. The 4-year-old died after suffering severe head trauma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to Ohio stepmom Ashley Young (INAUDIBLE) 4-year-old Kaylen was found unconscious and breathing heavily.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say she was beaten to death by her stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An autopsy revealed the girl died as a result of blunt force trauma to the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s walk in, and you`d be, like, everything was better. That was just Kaylen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s reportedly an imprint of the little girl`s head in the carpet at the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said Ashley beat her to death. And at that moment, I knew what I thought (ph). This was no seizure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s zoned out. She`s, like...
911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she breathing? Yes. Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s, like, out of it.
911 OPERATOR: Is she -- but she`s not responsive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, she`s not responding to anything.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: She`s breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct. She`s breathing, but she`s -- she`s going...
911 OPERATOR: Did she have a seizure?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she have a seizure? I think she did -- she thinks so, but she didn`t see it.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a Florida mother drives to a local 7-Eleven. Moments later, she is intentionally set on fire, all caught on tape. Tonight, we have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello? (INAUDIBLE) I had to hang up. He set me on fire! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: The female says the male set her on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we`re actually running (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hurry up! Hurry up! Please, please, please! It burns!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roosevelt Montecier (ph) got out of his car with a can of gasoline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s still outside. He has a knife! He set me on fire!
And I go up in flames.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) get away from me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And chasing her with a long knife to the store and forcing her outside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing I saw to do was take off my clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hurry up! Hurry! Oh, please! It hurts! Oh! Hurry up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t think I was going to (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Not so fast, Stepmommy! You say the little girl dies of a seizure? Our investigation reveals blunt force trauma to the baby`s head, trauma so severe, her head leaves an imprint in the living room carpet.
And not only that, tonight we learn en route to the hospital, as EMTs desperately try to save your baby`s life, you`re busy on the cell phone doing a drug deal, trying to get your next order of Percocet. Yes, I`m on to you, Mommy!
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Phil Trexler, reporter, "Akron Beacon-Journal." Wait. Hold on, Phil. We`re getting the 911 call in right now. Let`s take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the baby. My God, it`s her baby!
911 OPERATOR: OK, I understand, but ma`am, you need to -- I need the address, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) trailer park.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) trailer park, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s her little girl!
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s going on with the little girl? Is the girl breathing? OK, well, number one, I need you to calm down because you`re not helping me by not answering my question. Relax. Is the baby breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s, like, zoned out! She`s zoned out. She`s, like, What is this...
911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she breathing? What? Yes. But she`s out of it.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s, like, out of it.
911 OPERATOR: But she`s not responsive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she -- no, she`s not responding to anything.
911 OPERATOR: She`s what? Ma`am? You said she is breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s breathing, but she`s going...
911 OPERATOR: Did she have a seizure?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she have a seizure?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She thinks so. She didn`t see it.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Now, what I want you to do is tell her to calm down for me, OK? Tell her to calm down for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Calm down. Calm down, Ashley!
911 OPERATOR: OK? Now, stay on the line with me because I`ve got to get the squad the information, OK? OK, did anybody do a squad for (DELETED) Matt did? You did? Did they say that she had a seizure? OK, but you`ve got the squad en route (INAUDIBLE) responding. OK. They`re responding.
OK, listen to me. The squad is responding. The other dispatcher has radio traffic with them. I want you to answer some questions for me. How old is the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is she, 7, 4?
911 OPERATOR: She`s 4? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re on the way, Ashley!
911 OPERATOR: But she`s not alert and she`s not able to talk?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She looks like she`s turning blue.
911 OPERATOR: She looks like she`s turning blue?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her whole chest is beet red.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Are you sure she`s breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, she`s going, Ohh, ohh, ohh, ohhh. That`s all you hear, Ohh, ohh, ohh.
911 OPERATOR: Is she shaking?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she`s just, like (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is sue breathing for sure? That`s what I want you guys to make sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, right now, she`s still breathing.
911 OPERATOR: OK. She`s -- is it normal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
911 OPERATOR: It`s not normal?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a hiccup, but -- you know, where she`s trying to get her breath.
911 OPERATOR: Difficulty breathing, Matt, possible seizure. She is turning blue. We might want to get another squad en route.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As I listen to that 911 call and look at the pictures of baby Kaylen, just 4 years old, I`m just sick. Sick. The stepmommy claims she died of a seizure. Then why is the imprint of the baby`s head found in the carpet? Why is there evidence in autopsy of blunt force trauma to the head?
To Michael Board, WOAI, and Phil Trexler with "The Akron Beacon- Journal." Phil, what do we know?
PHIL TREXLER, "AKRON BEACON-JOURNAL": Well, you know, this is one of the most appalling and hideous crimes that`s probably ever been committed in this small Ohio town. What we know is the girl, like you said, she died of blunt force trauma. Her mom -- stepmother is accused of aggravated murder. She`s accused of inflicting a severe beating onto this child, just a hideous type crime that`s committed against an innocent young girl 4 years old.
The kicker now is, is that the mother is trying to portray herself as insane. She`s extended this defense of insanity. She`s trying to prove that she has no recollection, no control over what occurred on the day of the killing. And she`s been found to have some kind of psychosis, a mood depression disorder and also some -- obviously, some chemical dependency issues, too.
GRACE: Well, excuse me...
TREXLER: She`s being held...
GRACE: ... Phil Trexler! A mood disorder, a bad mood does not insanity make.
Michael Board, WOAI, I don`t understand how she can claim some type of mood disorder when she had the wherewithal to lie that this child died of a -- some type of a seizure, and had the wherewithal to try to score a Percocet hit of illegal drugs en route to the hospital, while EMTs are trying to save the baby, Baby Kaylen`s life!
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI: You know, what`s appalling about this case, in addition to the beating that this child received, the choking, the pulling out of the hair, this beating around, slamming head into the floor, we also know from the police reports and the autopsy the attack happened at about 2:30 in the afternoon. And we also know for a fact that 911 was not called until 4:00 in the afternoon.
Now, Nancy, when you talk to paramedics, they often talk about the "golden hour." That`s the first hour after there`s some sort of a traumatic event. That is the prime time. That`s when they have to get to the victim of any traumatic event to give them the best chance at surviving.
The mom was in this home. She waited more than an hour-and-a-half to even call (ph) out that the baby was, you know, in pain and there was something wrong. You know, it`s absolutely appalling that she could be in this house with a child that was suffering and try to maybe think about -- was she thinking about maybe what was her own defense before calling 911?
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Sherri in Florida. Hi, Sherri. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. My thing is, if this mother had a mood disorder and was diagnosed with it, why wasn`t she required to go through some psych evaluation before she was able to stepparent this child?
GRACE: Well, Sherri, unfortunately, in our country, you only have to have a license to drive, not to parent.
To Wendy Walsh, psychologist, co-host of "The Doctors." Wendy, I don`t understand how mood disorder is somehow in this conversation equaling insanity because it`s not the same thing. And the fact that she had the wherewithal to try to score a hit of Percocet on the on the phone while EMTs are trying to save the baby, to lie about what happened to cover -- to save her own skin, she is by far not insane under the law.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly, Nancy. What we`re talking about are two completely different criteria. One is a diagnosis made by a psychiatrist, and another thing is a legal definition of, did she know the consequences, did she understand her actions? And clearly, because of her behavior afterwards, as you`re pointing out, she did understand her actions because she was trying to cover her butt afterwards!
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. I`m hearing in my ear we are now being joined by Jackie West, joining us tonight exclusively. This is the grandmother of 4-year-old baby Kaylen. You`re seeing shots of the 4-year-old little girl right now, now dead, Stepmommy says because of a seizure. Our investigation reveals that the imprint of this baby`s head was found on the carpet. The injuries to her little body indicate blunt force trauma. That`s not a seizure.
Jackie West, thank you for being with us.
JACKIE WEST, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Ms. West, what happened the day that you learned baby Kaylen had passed away?
WEST: I got a phone call about 4:00 o`clock from my daughter, and she had told me that I needed to get to Craig`s (ph) house quickly because Kaylen had had some sort of a seizure.
You kind of have to excuse me for a minute because that was the first time I`ve heard the 911 call.
I wasn`t real upset at the moment because my grandson has seizures. He had a medical condition when he was born that caused him to have seizures, so I wasn`t real upset. And I got to the house and there was nobody was there. And I couldn`t figure out what was going on.
So I thought, Well, maybe they went to the hospital. So then I drove in to the hospital, and I saw my son`s pick-up truck. She had the pick-up truck. And I went in and I asked them, and they pointed me around the corner, and Kaylen was in the trauma room. And they had her all tubed up.
And I was totally blown away and confused because they were telling me she had a seizure. This doesn`t happen with a seizure. And they were running, running as fast as they could out of the trauma room to get things to try to help her. And it wasn`t a seizure. This doesn`t happen with seizures like this.
And then later, they told us that -- a little while later, they told us that they were going to life-flight her to Nationwide (ph) Children`s Hospital, and nobody really had any answers yet because nobody really knew at this point what had happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. This 4-year-old child rushed to the hospital as EMTs frantically try to save her life after stepmommy says she had a seizure. Stepmommy`s on the phone trying to score a hit of Percocet at the same time.
Our investigation reveals evidence that the carpet had a dent in it that matches the baby`s head. Blunt force trauma is the cause of this child`s death. There was no seizure.
And joining me right now, a special guest, speaking out on behalf of 4-year-old Kaylen, is her paternal grandmother, Jackie. You know, Ms. West, I know my that parents love me, but I believe that they love my children more than they ever loved the three of us. It`s just a kind of a -- a whole new, magical, wonderful love. And I thought they couldn`t love anything more than they loved their own children.
And I know that you feel that way about Kaylen. Who is this woman, 26-year-old Ashley Young? How did she get into Kaylen`s life?
WEST: Actually, my son had known her for quite a few years. They had been friends long before they ever got married. She`s known Kaylen -- she knew Kaylen from the time Kaylen was born.
GRACE: Well, I don`t understand how this could have happened if he knew her so well. Did he know she was addicted to Percocet?
WEST: No. We`ve found out a lot of stuff since this has all happened. Nobody ever said anything about it. And we never saw a change in her. We never saw a difference in her. They were at my house the day before this all happened. This -- we didn`t know any of this.
GRACE: Oh! Joining me right now Wendy Whitman, our producer, long- time trial tracker. Wendy, what do you know about the case?
WENDY WHITMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, my take on the case is we have a legal system, basically, that allows defendants to bounce around until they hit on the right difference. And first it was a seizure. And then she was found not competent to stand trial. Then she was found competent to stand trial, so then she went with an insanity defense.
And it doesn`t seem to matter that the physical evidence doesn`t remotely match her story. And I think that this case just has outrage written all over it. And I think the real issue is that they`re not seeking the death penalty when she`s eligible by statute in Ohio to get the death penalty and...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let`s talk about the physical evidence you just brought up. What is it?
WHITMAN: Well, in addition the apartment was in disarray, there was that dent in the carpet, which means she was really beaten very hard and really shoved into that floor -- and they also are accusing her of hiding a shirt that she allegedly ripped off of Kaylen and that was so tattered that it was very damaging evidence to her. And that was found on June 2nd, about a week later.
So you know, if you put it all together, it`s pretty clear what went on was not a seizure.
GRACE: Wendy, what do we know -- with me, Wendy Whitman. What do we know about the discovery, the cause of death? What did we learn about the body?
WHITMAN: Well, the body had -- apparently, had old, more recent injuries and older injuries, which, you know, makes you wonder what went on before. She had marks on her neck, on her thighs, on her arms. Her face was obviously very badly beaten. And I think she suffered a very -- an extremely violent death.
GRACE: To Jackie West, Kaylen`s grandmother. Did you hear that the autopsy reveals old injuries, old beatings on Kaylen?
WEST: I did. We had heard that. If there were bruises, we never saw them. And I took her to school that morning. I took her to school every...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Kaylen Young, the bright-eyed girl with the contagious giggle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little 4-year-old Kaylen was found unconscious and breathing heavily.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her suffering severe head trauma...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports say the stepmom doesn`t rush to the hospital herself, she allegedly attempts to buy drugs!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say she was beaten to death by her stepmother, Ashley Young.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To realize that she`s not here, to really wake up and realize that she`s not around anymore is the tough part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Stepmommy says the 4-year-old little girl died of a seizure. That`s not what the medical examiner says.
Out to a veteran medical examiner joining us out of Philadelphia, Dr. Bill Manion. Hi, Dr. Manion. Weigh in.
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): If a child has a head injury, like a subdural -- like a bleed on the brain, a subdural hematoma, oftentimes that pressure on the brain will cause the child to have a seizure.
But for the child to have a seizure spontaneously at 4 years old, that would be very unusual. So the child probably had a head injury first, and then afterwards, as the result of the head injury, had the seizure. At least, that`s been my experience.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Manion, another issue has come up that there was evidence in the autopsy report of, quote, "old injuries." I`m not talking about bruises. How does an autopsy report or medical examiner find evidence of old beatings?
MANION: Well, we can find evidence of old fractures. Before we do any autopsy on a child, we always do a full-body X-ray and we`ll be able to see old fractures. We`ll be able to see that some fractures were never treated and they have a fracture callous. For instance, if we see old rib fractures, that`s a classic sign of child abuse. In addition, on the arms and legs, if we see spiral fractures, that indicates the arms and legs were twisted very violently and caused a spiral injury running up the shaft of the bone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one knew that Kaylen`s third summer would be her last. The 4-year-old died after suffering severe head trauma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to Ohio stepmom Ashley Young, (INAUDIBLE) 4-year-old Kaylen was found unconscious and breathing heavily.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say she was beaten to death by her stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An autopsy reveals the girl died as a result of blunt force trauma to the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`d walk in, and you`d be, like -- everything was better. That was just Kaylen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s reportedly an imprint of the little girl`s head in the carpet at the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said Ashley beat her to death. And at that moment, I knew what I thought. This was no seizure. (END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. In a stunning case, stepmommy reports her little 4-year-old girl Kaylen is dying of a seizure. En route to the hospital as EMTs tried to save her life, mommy is on the phone scoring a hit of Percocet.
Unleash the lawyers, Kelly Saindon, Alex Sanchez, Renee Rockwell.
Doctor, I want you to take a listen to this 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing for sure? That`s what I want you guys to make sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, right now she`s still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. But she`s -- is it normal?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: It`s not normal? Yes. OK. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not a hiccup, but a -- where she`s trying to get her breath --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Difficulty breathing, Matt. Possible seizure, she is turning blue. We might want to get another squad en route.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, her entire -- her whole chest is all red. Ashley was trying to, oh, god, yes, she`s not like moving, she`s just laying on the floor go --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: I`d send Nelsonville maybe? Because 5102 is -- they`re back in station, aren`t they? OK. But does it look like she`s shaking at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: When she says --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s just laying there, unresponsive.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Unresponsive. OK. OK, do me a favor, if she`s having a seizure -- if she is having a seizure, I want you to lay her down on the floor on her side. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put her on the side.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: On the floor on her side. On the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, god her whole face is turning red.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: On the floor. Is she on the floor?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s on the floor. She`s already on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Turn her on her side in case she does start to vomit.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: In case she starts to vomit that way. You can tell her to get anything away from her that might hurt her. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything away from her, OK, because if she has a seizure, she might start to vomit.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they coming yet?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, ma`am, they`re en route. They`re coming from Athens. I know it seems like they`re taking forever. Just what I need you to do and calm down and try to calm the mom down. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. I`m trying.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: I know. It`s hard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Columbus --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Has the baby been ill or anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has she been sick or anything, Ashley? Nothing. She felt a little warm earlier.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: A little warm earlier? OK. Tell her it`s OK. Tell her help is on the way. Just calm the mom down because if the mom is calm the baby can (INAUDIBLE). OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Saindon, Sanchez, Rockwell.
All right. She doesn`t sound crazy in her 911 call, Renee Rockwell.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, that`s not her, that`s somebody else on the phone talking to her. If you listen to her in the background, even the dispatcher --
GRACE: That is her.
ROCKWELL: It`s not her, the dispatch operator says calm the mother down and she`s in the background trying to take orders.
GRACE: Alex Sanchez, I do hear her in the background, I also hear a neighbor in the background. She is the one, Alex, that is giving the information that the child is dying of a seizure.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, look, Nancy, the defense had better make up their mind and make it up soon what their defense is actually going to be. Is it going to be that the child had a seizure and was, you know, choking and fell and hit the head somewhere. Or is it going to be that the mother did this but she was insane at the time.
Those are inconsistent defenses. But I can tell you exactly which way the route of this case is going to go.
GRACE: OK. Tell me.
SANCHEZ: The defense is going to go and argue that she was insane as a matter of law. They may not be able to prove it, but they`re going to move to add the charge of manslaughter, so they can beat the murder in the first-degree. She`ll e convicted of manslaughter. And in a few years she`s going to be out of jail. That is exactly what they`re going to do.
GRACE: You know, Alex Sanchez, I`d like to argue with you on that, but I`m afraid that`s what`s going to happen, or worse that the prosecution takes a plea on a lesser. I have got a feeling when the jury hears the whole thing, they may not let her go on a manslaughter. Especially because her trying to claim insanity, in light of her in the middle of the call to 911, planning her Percocet delivery. Making that cell phone call as the child is en route to the hospital.
In my mind, Alex Sanchez, kind of torpedoes an insanity defense.
SANCHEZ: Yes, except --
GRACE: In fact, I think it will make the jury hate her.
SANCHEZ: Yes, well, the defense is going to have to use those very facts that you just mentioned to establish that she has some type of mental condition. But that is the only game in town as I see it right now.
GRACE: You know what, Alex? I may not like what you`re saying, but I think that you`re right, that is where they`re going.
What about it, Kelly?
KELLY SAINDON, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: He`s right, I mean that is absolutely where they`re going, because if you`re listening to that tape and she`s building the defense, she`s making noises in the background, she dramatizing, she`s saying, you know, how the child was breathing. That`s mom imitating what allegedly happened. The fact that the beating took place at 2:30, this is at 4:00.
They are going -- the jury is going to hate her and as a prosecutor, you`re going to look at, what was she doing, drug deal, how long ago did she beat her? How many times did she beat her? And why should they let her go. And unfortunately a lot of times they consider the trial and the cost, when she`s willing to plea, and they may accept a manslaughter plea on this. I hope they don`t because this is heinous.
GRACE: Out to the lines Darlene in Tennessee. Hi, Darlene, what`s your question?
DARLENE, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Yes, I was just calling, how could a person -- how could a person do a little child this way?
GRACE: You know what, I don`t understand it either.
To Marc Harrold, former officer, APD, now attorney, every time we have a case where a child is abused, mistreated, murdered, starved, beaten, I never understand why and we talk about epidemics, this is the epidemic in our country right now, that this goes on number one, and that people are privy to it and don`t report it and don`t stop it, Marc.
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA PD, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": Yes, it`s definitely an epidemic, and there`s no type of crime that shocks the consciousness of society as much as mothers or stepmothers injuring children that they are supposed to care for.
As far as why is it done or how can it be explained, I hope we never get to a point where we can actually explain how somebody would kill a child. I think we`d come up with legal explanations and that that what`s - - I think Sanchez is right. That`s where they`re going to go in this case and try to show that she is not legally responsible for it. But I can`t explain why people would do this. I can -- I have no explanation of how anyone can treat another human being this way.
GRACE: Out to a special guest joining us tonight. The grandmother of baby Kaylen, the little girl, just 4 years old, you`re seeing her on your screen, now dead, thank to stepmommy.
Jackie West is with us, the grandmother. Where is mommy, Miss West?
JACKIE WEST, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER OF KAYLEN YOUNG: Mom is close. She lives in a little town close to Athens now. We don`t have much contact with her, my son has had custody of Kaylen, since she was about six months old, and I would have to say that, you know, all this talk from the other people about what`s going to happen, the woman was not insane.
Two weeks ago she said she didn`t do it. She covered it up. She hid the search. And now all of a sudden, I`m insane? Seriously? I get -- I get so upset over the whole situation that one day she`s saying I didn`t do -- she had a seizure, I didn`t do it, and the next day she`s saying, I`m insane. Pick a side.
GRACE: You know, Miss West, you`re absolutely right.
Everyone, with me is little Kaylen`s grandmother speaking out on her behalf.
You guys were around Ashley Young all the time. Was there no indication, no red flag that she had been beating Kaylen? I mean how did she act toward Kaylen when she was around you guys, normally?
WEST: Yes. Actually there was no sign whatsoever that, you know, she felt anything for Kaylen other than love. What happened in that trailer that day, we will never know, other than the fact the bottom line is that Kaylen died on her watch and at her hands. What led up to it I don`t know. But you know Kaylen is dead because of Ashley and not doing what she was supposed to do. I trusted her to take care of my son and my granddaughter and she did neither. She destroyed my son`s life and took Kaylen away from me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He set me on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Yes, what`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He set me on fire.
NAOME BRETON, SET ON FIRE ALLEGEDLY BY HER EX-BOYFRIEND: So as he`s douching me with the gas, we`re actually running away from one another.
Hurry up. Hurry up, please, please, please. And I go up in flames and that`s when I start screaming.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Caught on surveillance video splashing the gas on the victim at the 7-Eleven.
BRETON: My thinking is, I need to stay around, I need to be alive for my kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, she goes to pick up her child at a local 7-Eleven. When she is chased, doused with gasoline and set on fire.
We are taking your calls and first out to Naome Breton, set on fire, and has lived to tell the tale.
Naomi, thank you for being with us.
BRETON: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Naomi, what happened?
BRETON: The guy takes a gallon of gasoline and he starts pouring it all over my car. And he -- sort of must have realized, you know, by you throwing gas on my car, you`re not affecting me. So then he starts throwing it over the car at me, and at this point I called 911. That was my first time calling 911. He doused the gas on me and I`m running. And I`m telling the 911 operator (INAUDIBLE).
I managed to get over to the door of the store and I was trying to (INAUDIBLE) out of the store like close the store and (INAUDIBLE), but my pocket book I stuck in the middle of the door. So at that time, I just -- it was nothing I could really do. I felt a knife in my finger a little bit. And -- but at that point, his strength pretty much took over and I just went flying out the door.
We were right there on (INAUDIBLE) --
GRACE: We`re looking at video right now, surveillance video of the horrible evening, a mom of three, 34-year-old Naome Breton is doused with gasoline and set on fire.
To Richard Abdill, reporter with "New Times Broward-Palm Beach," what do police say happened that night? Can they document it all?
RICH ABDILL, REPORTER, NEW TIMES BROWARD-PALM BEACH: I mean the security footage does most of it for them. I mean you can see running to the store, trying to hold the door shot, and then she gets pulled back outside, and you can`t see what happens, but then there you go, she`s on fire. So a lot of that is they don`t have to investigate.
GRACE: To Robert Rowe, arson investigation expert, joining us out of Long Beach.
Robert, how can they determine in hindsight, in retrospect what was the accelerant used?
ROBERT ROWE, ARSON INVESTIGATION EXPERT: Well, again, the video that was shown shows a gas -- appears to be a gas can and what they will probably, most likely do is to recover that gas can.
GRACE: Yes.
ROWE: And what they will probably most likely do is to recover that gas can as well as the clothing on Naome and then match those through a laboratory to determine, you know, if it is in fact gasoline, but that`s what typically an investigation would require is that you would collect those items.
GRACE: You know, Robert, this took place at a 7-Eleven with gas pumps. What was the danger to the rest of us as well?
ROWE: Well, fortunately, gas pumps are designed to shut off when we pull away from the gas station, you`ve seen several videos of that, where you pull away and then it leaks gas everywhere, they have automatic shutoffs. On this case, there was somebody pumping gas in the close proximity to this activity, then that of course would definitely be a danger to the public.
GRACE: To Dr. Manion, joining us, medical examiner. When faced with this situation, being on fire, what is a victim to do?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, they`ll try to determine how deep the burns go. The first-degree burn is just (INAUDIBLE) on the epidermis. Second degree the full thickness of the skin. Third degree is getting in the fatty tissue. And, you know, despite the great medicine we have today, people that have significant burns, more than 50 percent of their body, oftentimes still die. And this individual who survived still going to probably need a lot of grafting, skin grafting to try to get her skin back to normal.
GRACE: And back to you, Robert Rowe, what could Naome have done to minimize injuries if anything?
ROWE: Well, you know, in a panic situation, you know, a lot of people would do the same thing. They would panic and basically, you know, run in just various directions. We`re all taught in school that we`re to drop -- stop, drop and roll, that`s what the firefighters teach all the kids. I mean that is something that you can do, to stop, drop and roll and to try to extinguish the flames.
However, you`re dealing with a flammable liquid so it might not be quite as easy as that. I guess the first thing to do would probably just get to some form of water or pull off the clothes which I believe Naome did to reduce the burns.
GRACE: Everyone, Polly`s Guardian Angels smartphone app is up and running. Named after murder victim, 12-year-old Polly Klaas, it`s the very first parent initiated missing child alert system. You can use that. It instantly mobilizes friends, neighbors, the community, to search for the child. Go to Pollysguardianangel.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETON: He set me on fire, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breton ran into the 7-Eleven soaked in gasoline but you can see her attacker yanks her back out.
BRETON: Hurry up. Hurry up. Please, it hurts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, out to Vicki in Georgia. Hi, Vicki, what`s your question?
VICKI, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi. I was wondering why her protective order was denied because I know it`s easier now to get them than it was in the `70s because it was terrible. And my husband threatened to kill me numerous times, and I never could get one. So, luckily, I had --
GRACE: You know what you`re right, Vicki. I don`t understand it either.
Matt Zarrell, she tried get a protective order. Who is the judge that denied her protection?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: The name of the judge is Thomas Barkdull. Now he denied the protective order. It was less than two weeks before the attack, or insufficient evidence. But Nancy, the night before she filed the protective order, he sent her a threatening message saying, "I am all about revenge."
Now, right after the fire happened, they actually located him a couple of hours later, hiding in the bushes near the 7-Eleven where she was attacked, and his car, the Jaguar, was still parked at the 7-Eleven.
GRACE: What`s the judge`s name and what`s the jurisdiction, Matt?
ZARRELL: It is Thomas Barkdull. And the jurisdiction is Boynton Beach, Florida. Palm Beach County.
GRACE: OK. Bardull, B-A-R-D-U-L-L, III. His daddy was a judge, too. And he somehow ends up on the bench.
Naome, why did the judge deny your request for protection?
BRETON: I was told that there was not enough physical -- there was not enough physical evidence.
GRACE: Wait a minute. He`s caught hiding in the bushes? He texts you that he is all about revenge and that`s not enough evidence, Naome?
BRETON: No. They said he could -- actually, I had police come to my new place a number of times because he was calling me, texting me, leaving me messages on how he was going to kill me, and voodoo, how he was going to kill me, you know, by hands, how he would get his revenge, and I was told by a police officer it`s his freedom of speech. He can say whatever he wants, he can do whatever he --
GRACE: What? Wait, what did this Judge Barkdull have to say about it?
BRETON: I have no clue. But I -- I got it in the mail yesterday, the no-order contact came in the mail yesterday.
GRACE: He needs to come off the bench.
(CROSSTALK)
BRETON: I think it`s a little too late now, but I got it yesterday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETON: He set me on fire. Hurry up, please. It hurts. OK.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Set her on fire. On fire.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: He set me on fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She was set on fire at a 7-Eleven, just after a judge refuses to give her a protection order.
To Rich Abdill, reporter, "New Times Broward-Palm Beach," who is this judge, Judge Barkdull, III, who denied her protective order? Why is he still propped up on the bench?
ABDILL: Well, we don`t know a lot of the details about what the ruling was. They don`t release any reasoning and they usually don`t answer questions --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, hello, I`ve got her request right here where she outlines him cursing at her, obscenities, hitting her, coming by the house, the cops catch him hiding in the bushes? What more does a judge need, for Pete`s sake?
ABDILL: I`m not sure. I mean, it certainly looks from the evidence that she presented that there was a lot there, he was cutting up furniture, according to her. They have gotten in fights. The police have been called. I`m not sure what the judge was thinking.
GRACE: Well, I know this, Naome Breton, the fact that you are alive is a miracle, a miracle, and your child, your children, need you badly. God was watching out for you that night so your children would have a mother.
Thank you for being with us, Naome.
Tonight, we honor an American hero, Army Specialist Eric Hunter, 24, Monroeville, Alabama, injured, Afghanistan, the day before his one-year wedding anniversary. Right leg, amputated. Left leg facing reconstructive surgery. Purple Heart. Combat Action Badge. Loves guitars, snowboarding, Alabama football.
Tonight, we pray for Eric, and wife, Kenna, children Kensley and JC. American hero, Eric Hunter.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Dr. Drew coming up next.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friend.
END
