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Sandusky Jury Still Deliberating

Aired June 22, 2012 - 19:00   ET


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to bring in Jane Velez-Mitchell. And Jane, I hate to think that this trial would stop people from volunteering, stop kids from getting mentors they need. What do you think the impact is going to be?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Well, one of the things that I think is very important is to realize that some of the worst molesters have absolutely no criminal record. So you can`t do some kind of database check to check for them.

What we have to trust are our instincts. If something seems off, take that into account, because it may be something there. Trust your gut.

Tonight, jurors in the Sandusky trial deliberating as we speak right now. We could find out any moment now Jerry Sandusky`s fate. We are bringing you the very latest live from right outside the courthouse, next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, nerve-wracking deliberations in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse trial. Why did jurors demand to hear once again the testimony of star witness Mike McQueary? He`s the former Penn State assistant coach who says he saw Sandusky in the shower sexually abusing a young boy. Did he tell conflicting stories? Could this be the prosecution`s Achilles heel?

And what about Sandusky`s own son saying he, too, is a victim?

We`re analyzing this incredibly dramatic trial with experts. And we`re taking your calls.

Plus, we`ll play more astonishing video of George Zimmerman telling cops his version of events the night he gunned down Trayvon Martin. You`ll see cops put the former Neighborhood Watch volunteer through voice analysis and lie detector tests. Are there inconsistencies between his walking re- enactment and his 911 call? We`ll investigate.

And mounting backlash over this outrageous video of middle-school boys relentlessly taunting bus monitor Karen Klein. The grandmother of eight endures a tirade of profanity-laced verbal abuse, and it`s all caught on tape. Tables are turning. Should these students be punished?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Already another bombshell allegation against Jerry Sandusky. Now, his adopted son says he, too, is a victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Matt Sandusky claims he was molested by Sandusky and was prepared to testify against him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Penn State coach facing life in prison for allegedly sexually abusing ten boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Jerry Sandusky that I knew and I saw and have a relationship, I cannot imagine him doing the things he`s been accused.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are felony charges here. Nine counts of involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Nine counts of unlawful contact with minors. Six counts of endangering the welfare of children. Seven counts of indecent assault. Four counts of endangering the welfare of children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to have closure. We have to go on. This is so sad. And so hard on Penn State, you know? And our community.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight the anticipation and the tension grows. We`re on verdict watch as the growing crowd outside the courthouse waits on pins and needles. The jury in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse trial, 18 hours of deliberation and counting. Are there any clues about what`s going on behind those closed doors?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live tonight as the anticipation hits a fever pitch.

The jury asked to review two crucial pieces of evidence, all dealing with the only two victims who did not testify. This morning the jury re- heard the testimony of star prosecution witness Mike McQueary. He is the Sandusky football colleague who says he saw Jerry Sandusky appearing to have sex with a young boy.

But the jurors also wanted to hear from a defense witness, Dr. Jonathan Dranov, who says a shaken Mike McQueary told him a slightly different story. Listen to this.


MIKE GALANOS, HLN: They wanted a read-back of testimony from Mike McQueary and Dr. Jonathan Dranov. This surrounds victim No. 2. We didn`t hear from victim No. 2. It`s Mike McQueary who says he`s the eyewitness that saw Jerry Sandusky raping this young boy in the showers at Penn State, 2001.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, just hours ago, the jury asked a question about the only other victim who did not testify. That boy`s alleged molestation was witnessed by a janitor who couldn`t testify, because he`s suffering from dementia right now. But he told his story to another worker, who did testify.


JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": This accused rape, nobody reported it. All these people see it. They tell everybody in the locker room, the janitor, the manager of the janitor. Nobody reports it. They say they were scared to talk against Jerry Sandusky or to bring something like that to light.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Power and privilege. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS; 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to "In Session`s" Jean Casarez, who was with us on camera only briefly since you need to get into court quickly in case there is news from the jury.

Jean, is there a building sense of anticipation that we are getting very close to a verdict?

CASAREZ: You know, you never know, but, yes, there is anticipation here. You know, they`ve been deliberating very hard. And I just spoke with someone very close to the case. And they said that they have never seen a deliberation this long. That Centre County has a reputation for having a short deliberation versus a long deliberation.

But don`t forget, there`s 48 counts here. But it`s been an active day. I mean, they`ve had questions. There`s been communication. I think they want to get this done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, there`s a dinner break. And are they working through the dinner break or not?

CASAREZ: The dinner break is going on right now. It is considered deliberations, yes. But attorneys are away from the courthouse. We don`t expect a verdict during the dinner break. But it could come at any time. Truly, you never know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, the dinner break could be ending any second now, too. So hypothetically, there could be a verdict announced during this hour, and we`re all over it.

Prosecutors say Jerry Sandusky molested ten boys over 15 years. Now, eight of those boys, now young men took the stand and accused Sandusky to his face. But the jury today had questions about the two accusers who did not testify. Assistant coach Mike McQueary testified that he saw Jerry Sandusky appear to rape one of those silent victims in the Penn State showers. Here`s McQueary on CBS.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Describe your emotions right now.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said what, like a?

MCQUEARY: Snowblower (ph).


VELEZ-MITCHELL: As for the other alleged victim who didn`t take the stand, a janitor said he saw Sandusky performing a sex act on a young boy, but that boy did not take the stand. The janitor now has dementia and couldn`t testify. It was a co-worker he talked to who did testify.

So Mike Sisack (ph), you are a court reporter. You`ve been there throughout the trial, day in, day out. Why do you think these jurors are focused precisely on the two cases where the boys themselves did not testify? Is it a good sign or a bad sign for the prosecution?

MIKE SISACK (PH), COURT REPORTER: Well, it`s hard to read the tea leaves on that. But it is interesting that they are focusing on these two areas where they did not see in the courtroom the young men come into court and tell their story. They heard that from eight people in this case, emotionally at times, graphic details. But in these cases they have to rely on third-party witnesses.

And there was some controversy about these witnesses. Mike McQueary told one story to the grand jury. Had slight variations in his testimony at a preliminary hearing. And then was here in court.

And then there was Dr. Dranov, the family friend, who told a slightly different story, and the defense was trying to accentuate that.

And then you have the janitor who now suffers from dementia, and you had to rely on a third party, a colleague to tell his story about what he saw.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. There is a theory that the entire prosecution case could be destroyed if you go after Mike McQueary`s testimony. He is, in a sense, the adult who witnessed these boys allegedly, or at least one of them being abused. Otherwise, you rely on the testimony of the boys themselves.

OK. Now, McQueary testified he saw Jerry Sandusky and a young boy together in the Penn State shower room in a, quote, "very extreme sexual position," end quote. McQueary testified he was so upset he was shaken. He told his dad and a family friend, Dr. Jonathan Dranov, what he saw.

But the defense called Dr. Dranov, who testified McQueary told him he heard some sexual sounds but didn`t see any physical contact. That`s a discrepancy. How important is it for the defense to raise questions about McQueary`s testimony? Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defense has said that if you can break down Mike McQueary`s case, if you can discredit him, that they believe the whole case falls apart. And this is why.

The defense thinks that once many of these alleged victims knew that Penn State was involved, that a university with a lot of money was involved in this, that they saw lawsuits, they saw cash.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor and you`re the supervisor of a sex crimes unit. We all know there are no open and shut cases. Remember Michael Jackson? OK. Child molestation trial. Everybody thought he was going away. They were all predicting it, that while the jury`s deliberating, "Oh, he`s going down, he`s going down." He was acquitted on all counts.

If the jury is worried about Mike McQueary`s testimony, could this be the prosecution`s Achilles` heel?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Absolutely not. I mean, his testimony as to one witness. I don`t think they`re trying to discredit him. I think they`re trying to figure out what it was he saw.

And the past guest is correct. I mean, if the actual victim is not in court to testify, you have to rely on a third person. It`s much more difficult. The idea that he might be discredited has nothing to do with the other eight victims that came forward.

You would have to believe that they`re so desperate for money that they`d, in front of the entire nation, talk about someone performing oral sex upon them. If you think it`s easy to discuss that kind of abuse and then go in a courtroom and then have the world looking, then you know what? You should walk them out the door. You must think that they are involved in such a huge conspiracy.

The credibility is there. The idea that they`re asking to read back testimony is not unusual in a case with 48 counts. And you have all jurors listening to different things. So I`m not surprised. I`m not surprised at how long the deliberations are taking. And I think that the jury is going to see this guy abused all of these kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Midwin Charles, we all were there for many big cases, whether it`s O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Michael Jackson child molestation trial. And everybody was saying, "Oh, yes, he`s going down." And guess what? They were all acquitted in the criminal cases.

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. I mean, you`re right. We`ve covered these trials for years, and we`re always shocked and stunned when you get a verdict that is not what you would anticipate.

It always comes down to the jurors and what they are thinking. You`ve got 12 different people, complete different backgrounds, complete different racial make-up and you have no idea how they are approaching this evidence. They`ve been sitting there through each and every day. They`ve listened to all the testimony. They`re familiar with all the documentation and the evidence, and you have no idea how they`re going to come down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they`re not hearing everything that we`re hearing outside court.

CHARLES: Especially this last allegation from this adopted son, Matt Sandusky. They haven`t heard that.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Jerry Sandusky were sitting right here...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you say anything first?

WEAVER: No. There would be no reason to say anything. He knows what he did. I know what he did.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, that from "30" -- from "Rock Center."

But I`ve got to tell you that there is a deliberation going on as we speak. And you dovetail that with another accuser speaking out publicly for the first time, 30-year-old Travis Weaver. He did not testify at the trial. He claims he was repeatedly sexually abused as a boy by Jerry Sandusky at Jerry Sandusky`s home. Listen to more of what he has to say.


WEAVER: I stayed at his house probably over a hundred times.


WEAVER: Yes. It was over a few years. Yes. I stayed there a lot.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A hundred times. Weaver testified before the grand jury, and he has filed a civil suit. But we`re going to talk in a moment about why he`s not on the prosecution`s witness list.

I want to go out to Adam Rendon, the author of "The Vallie." You are a sex abuse survivor. You say you were sexually abused by a neighbor. I admire your courage in speaking out.

Explain to us from your perspective why it`s possible for somebody to say they were sexually abused by Jerry Sandusky for a hundred times and still not want to take the stand and testify.

ADAM RENDON, AUTHOR, "THE VALLIE": Something like that, it`s really hard to explain, because everyone takes their abuse in their own way. And I`m pretty sure that the reason he`s not wanting to come forward and speak about it in front of a jury is because he`s embarrassed.

I myself was embarrassed when I had to tell my family that I was sexually abused by neighbors that we had since childhood. And being on trial, I mean, you`re looked at by lots of people. And I don`t think he has what it takes to actually stand up and tell the prosecution and to tell the jury that he was sexually abused so many times by Jerry Sandusky.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Michael Christian, "In Session," you`re there, as well, covering this trial. Could it be that there`s a problem with his story? Because he seems to have no problem speaking publicly on camera, which one might say could be even more stressful and more potentially traumatic than speaking in a court where there are no cameras.

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Yes. One would think. But, you know, there may be future charges in this case. The grand jury is investigating, apparently there are potentially more victims out there. There could be other charges against Jerry Sandusky.

And you know, you talk about this happened at his house a hundred times or somebody says, "I was there every weekend for a year. This happened 50 times." The defense says that works for them because they said there`s no way that all these victims were running around, could possibly all have been in the basement, all have being abused by Jerry Sandusky in the same time period. They say it just doesn`t make any sense and that the defense is embellishing all of this.

So those large numbers, even though they sound horrible on the surface, could help the defense, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Let`s go out to the phone lines. Debby in New York, your question or thought, Debby.

CALLER: Hi, Jane.


CALLER: I may be mistaken, I thought I heard that the gentleman that was on the show last night that -- the "Rock Center"...


CALLER: That he -- I think they`re saving him -- God forbid, for round two, for a second trial if need be. That`s what I heard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. There`s a lot of speculation. And everybody puts their own spin on it, Midwin Charles.

His attorney may say, "Well, we`re waiting for this trial," and there could be another set of accusers who come forward and put Jerry Sandusky on trial again.

Others say maybe there`s a problem with the story and that`s why the prosecution this go-round decided to keep him off.

CHARLES: Right. I don`t know if there was a problem with his story, but I was going to say, it could be that the prosecutors decided that they just didn`t need him. I mean, they had eight victims on that stand. As you can imagine, that`s very powerful. That is firsthand experience. You`ve got these eight guys now on the stand, talking about what happened to them. And they probably decided, "We don`t need anymore. We don`t want overkill."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Because sometimes your story can get very muddied. If you go back to the Michael Jackson child molestation trial, there was something like seven accusers. For every one of those accusers, there was a whole twisted back story.

And there were problems with a lot of them. They had sought money. Some of them had sold their stories. There were all sorts of problems that can come up.

So we never know when the powers that be decide not to use a witness, they may have a myriad of witnesses, a myriad of reasons that we don`t know about.

CHARLES: That`s exactly right. And also when a prosecutor puts together a case, at least a very skilled prosecutor, what they want to do is take it very succinct and effective. They don`t want overkill. They don`t want to confuse jurors. And you`re right, they want to make sure that there are no outside issues that can cause collateral damage to the point that they`re trying to make.



TOM MESEREAU, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Police and others thought there was a case and started constructing a case and broke the rules in doing so.

This has happened before. It`s like a train leaving the station. People jump on the train. Nobody wants to put on the brakes. Everybody starts convincing themselves that "When I was a child and looking back at what happened, I must have been molested."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was famed attorney, defense attorney Tom Mesereau, who of course, defended Michael Jackson successfully. Looking at the video there, boy, that takes me back to the 2005 Michael Jackson child molestation trial in California.

Everybody thought Michael Jackson was going to be convicted. There were so many people who staked their reputation on saying this guy`s going down. This is an open and shut case. Remember, the D.A., Tom Sneddon.

Well, I remember, I was in that trial for every single day. I remember when the jury was selected, there was one person who said, young man, "I visited Neverland as a child. And, wow, that really had an impact on me." They let him stay on the jury.

So what about the jury in this case? Could playing the Penn State loyalty card work for the defense with this jury? Seven out of 12 jurors have connections to Penn State university. The newest addition, juror No. 6, who just replaced another juror, she was an alternate and got on the case, she got her degree from Penn State. And get this: Jerry Sandusky spoke at her graduation ceremony.

Juror No. 7, a Penn State senior, works for the athletic department part time. These people, seven of them have serious ties to Penn State.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: Right. And you know what, Jane? My daughter also goes to Notre Dame. So I understand being in that community where everyone in the entire community really rallies on their team.

But here let me share something with you. The fact that we`ve got people that are on the jury that have a correlation with Penn State or graduated from there, they may have spoke at graduation, you know, it can go both ways.

One is, No. 1, they could be disgusted by the fact that this is someone representing their college. Or No. 2, could just be the complete opposite. I don`t know if I want to put Penn State on my resume, because everyone`s going to relate that to this Penn State scandal, which is these sexual allegations.

So it can go either way, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But Beth Karas, we have seen in so many of these high-profile cases -- we`ve discussed Michael Jackson, O.J. Simpson, the Robert Blake case, remember him? "Beretta." It`s very hard to take somebody who is famous and convict them of a serious crime. And essentially, Jerry Sandusky is famous.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Yes, he is. And I have heard people describe him in this community as he is a celebrity in this community. Maybe not nationwide, although he`s known in the sports world, but in this community he`s the equivalent of all the celebrities you just named.

So that`s maybe why the defense didn`t ask to move the case. It was the attorney general`s office that thought maybe this should be moved elsewhere and the judge said, "Well, let`s try to pick a jury here." And of course they did. And they got a lot of ties to Penn State.

That`s not necessarily going to help the defense though, these ties to Penn State. There are plenty of people associated with Penn State -- I`ve been here for the last few weeks -- who are annoyed with Jerry Sandusky and just want to put this behind them and move on. Football season`s coming up end of August. The players will be -- well, some of them are already here. But they`ll be gearing up for their season. And they just want this put behind them.

However, some of these witnesses, you know, the jurors may kind of connect with some of the witnesses, the character witnesses.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m just playing devil`s advocate. We have no idea. The only thing I`ve learned with a high-profile case, never do an absolute prediction because so often these high-profile cases, it`s a runaway freight train. You don`t know what the heck`s going to happen.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today lawyers are making their final case to the jury in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse trial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sandusky`s defense team gave theirs this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The system decided Mr. Sandusky was guilty. And the system set out to convict him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His refrain throughout to this jury: it doesn`t add up. It doesn`t make sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But then the prosecutor, Joe McGettigan, who wrapped up a short time ago with a powerful finish, then he walked over next to Jerry Sandusky as he wrapped up and he said, "He knows he did it. You know he did it. The kids can`t get back their souls. You have to find him guilty on all counts."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The jury in the Jerry Sandusky child molestation trial just in the process of returning from their dinner break as we speak. They work through dinner. And they could have a verdict any moment now.

We are all over this story. We have been talking about the fact that as we show you video of Jerry Sandusky and all the hoopla really outside court, the jury has been deliberating for 18 hours. They are seven women, five men. And perhaps the most notable thing to say about them is that seven of the 12 have strong ties to Penn State. How will that cut? Will it cut for Jerry Sandusky? Or will they be so embarrassed by the scandal that they will want to punish Jerry Sandusky?

Meantime, the judge laid out some very fascinating instructions that I think might pose a challenge for the jury. He said, quote, "You may believe the defendant exercised poor judgment, but of itself that does not amount to criminality. It is the defendant`s intent, not the child`s reaction, that determines whether a crime was committed."

We have heard interviews that could reveal Sandusky`s intent. Listen to this from the


JERRY SANDUSKY, ON TRIAL FOR CHILD ABUSE: If I say, "No, I`m not attracted to boys", that`s not the truth because I`m attracted to young people -- boys, girls --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but not sexually. You`re attracted because you enjoy spending time.

SANDUSKY: Right. I enjoy -- that`s what I was trying to say -- I enjoy spending time with young people. I enjoy --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That interview may be one reason of many why Jerry Sandusky did not take the stand ultimately.

Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, you know, these jury instructions, I have read so many of them and they are so convoluted. Sometimes it almost seems like they require you to throw common sense out the window. Sometimes these jurors, "Oh, I know what I`m going to do and then they get in there and they read these jury instructions that go on for pages and pages of gobbledygook and they don`t know what the heck to do.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yes. You know, you`re right, Jane. Sometimes the instructions do tend to confuse the jurors. But, you know, we always say in the beginning of the case, whatever you do, we ask you to leave your prejudice and bias outside the door but bring your common sense back in the room with you.

And so that`s what you`re seeing here. You`re seeing 48 counts. You`re seeing two weeks` worth of testimony. And you`re seeing victims come in and testify as to horrific acts versus a guy who`s beloved in the community.

And you`re right. It is very difficult when you have a celebrity in that field versus these kids. And the jurors are probably taking that into consideration. They also have to know that the elements of the crimes have been met. And they also have to think to themselves that these guys obviously deserve the academy award and are so hard-up for cash that they`ve come into a courtroom, talked about these horrific acts, cry and break down and sob and are able to relay all the old details.

So, yes, the instructions can be complicated. Sometimes it`s up to the prosecutor to lay them out in the easy fashion so they`re not confused when they go back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Shay, Georgia, your question or thought, Shay.

SHAY, GEORGIA (via telephone): Hi, Jane. I was wondering if Jerry Sandusky`s wife is speaking to the adopted son that just made the allegations against Jerry?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh, you`ve gotten to the most fascinating part of this tragedy. Beth Karas, you got to wonder what Dottie Sandusky is thinking now that her adopted son, 33-year-old Matt, has come out right at the eleventh hour as soon as the jury goes into sequestration and says, "Oh, yes, Jerry Sandusky molested me too."

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, here`s the chronology, Jane. He was on the defense witness list. He was not called, obviously. After the prosecution rested its case in chief on Monday, within a day or so, he actually went public with all this. And then we`re learning it within the next few days. And it became clear that he could now be a prosecution witness.

But the judge wasn`t going to let the prosecution add a witness to their witness list and reopen their case in chief. However, it appears that Matt Sandusky could have been called on rebuttal. So if Jerry Sandusky got on the stand and said "I never molested my adopted son, Matt Sandusky," he could have testified. And that`s what kept Sandusky off the stand.

Adam Rendon, you are a sex abuse survivor, can you imagine how torn this young man must be? First he shows up with the family at court, supports his adoptive father, sits next to his mother, Dottie, who you`re looking at right there. And then during the course of the trial he ultimately comes public and says, "My dad did it to me too."

ADAM RENDON, SEX ABUSE SURVIVOR: Yes. I mean, sitting there, if you`re watching the trial and listening to everyone testify, I know you can feel the pent-up emotions that you`re trying to suppress and that he did suppress. And seeing everyone come out and tell their stories about what they did, I can totally, like, agree with him that it just comes out. That you feel so bad that why are you keeping this secret to protect your father?

I mean yes, he did raise you, but what he did to you was not always the best of things. And as he`s seeing everyone testify, he just felt the emotions come out and say, "I need to stand forward. I need to come out and tell them that my dad also did this to me to justify what everyone else is saying."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t want to convict him. The jury is deciding that as we speak. Right now we are on verdict watch. But I will say if he is guilty of any of what he is charged, 48 counts, it is the definition of evil.

Now this --



He says "You`re going to die tonight. You`re going to die tonight (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: He lied about why he got out of the car. And from there it just goes downhill.

ZIMMERMAN: He ended up on top of me and he just kept punching my face and my head, screaming for help.

He put his hand on his nose -- on my nose and the other hand on my mouth and said (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Our son was not committing any crimes.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: For the first time ever I see potentially a jury acquitting him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His credibility is the most important thing in this entire case.

ZIMMERMAN: He sat up and he says, "Ok, you got me. You got it. You got me. You got it." Something like that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stunning new evidence. The police interrogation of George Zimmerman. Does he change his story and incriminate himself? We`re going to play the tapes right now so you can decide for yourself.

Jane Velez-Mitchell back with you -- live.

Yesterday we showed you George Zimmerman re-enacting his deadly confrontation with Trayvon Martin. Police investigators taped his testimony at the crime scene. But some of what he told them seems to contradict other evidence.

Watch George Zimmerman explain why he got out of his car and then listen to what Trayvon Martin family attorney Natalie Jackson, told me about that.


ZIMMERMAN: He asked me where he went, what direction he went, and I said "I don`t know." And then I thought to get out and look for a street sign.

JACKSON: He said that he got out of the car to assist dispatch with looking for an address. We know from listening to the tape when he was talking to the non-emergency number that he got out of the car to run after Trayvon.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are there other apparent contradictions? Also, tonight, we`re going to show you newly released audio of a police investigator grilling George Zimmerman and a cop sounds like he doesn`t believe his story. Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you head of the neighborhood watch?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again, something else I got to try and explain away.

How do you not know the three streets in your neighborhood you`ve been living in for three years? I don`t know how to answer that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Midwin Charles, defense attorney, it appears the investigators are skeptical. So I have to ask at the end of the day, the reason there was a national uproar was there was no arrest initially.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they said nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. But you can see the investigators are very skeptical of him.

CHARLES: Yes, I mean I think one of the things that I find interesting with that tape is he says he got out to try to find the street sign. But hello, my guess if you`re part of the neighborhood watch, you know the neighborhood. Why would you want to do that?

So that`s one of the things why you have to ask yourself particularly since we know there`s a 911 call that exists in which he was told, "We don`t need you to do that. Don`t get out of your car. Don`t follow him."

So you have all these questions are raised by that videotape. I don`t think that this is a videotape that exonerates him of the charges.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Sanford police took a lot of heat for how they handled this case. But now we`re seeing they didn`t blindly accept George Zimmerman`s version of events.

Watch this from his interview.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person was not doing anything bad. You know the name of the person that died?



ZIMMERMAN: Trayvon Martin?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He was born in 1995, February the 5th. He was 17 years old.

In his possession we found a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles and about $40 in cash. Not a goon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got problems with black people?

ZIMMERMAN: Of course not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. I had to ask.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan Constantine, jury consultant, the cops are basically asking him if he`s a racist. This exhibits a lot more skepticism than we presumed on the part of the police.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, you know, I watched that tape from the beginning to the end several times, Jane, and I`ll tell you what I noticed.

The first part where he was driving in the car and he was using his hand gestures and telling what direction he was going, he was very fluid in his hand gestures. When it got to the very specific points that everyone is questioning, somehow he forgets. He also pauses, he hesitates, he breaks eye contact. And at one point before he actually got to where the altercation happened, he actually pointed and he used this signal like this. Now, that`s the only time he did that.

And, you know, as a body language expert, I`m telling you right now the story`s not fitting the way he`s telling it. There`s a lot of discrepancies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Show me the signal quickly.

CONSTANTIN: Right here, the gunpoint. If you go back and watch those videos, you will see him take this position when he is pointing to where one of the houses was at the end of the street. It shocked me, Jane. I was absolutely shocked.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And here`s your "Viral Video of the Week".






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: School bus bully -- it`s the shocking video that enraged millions of Americans and made me sick to my stomach. She sat utterly defenseless as kid after kid insulted and ridiculed her, reviled (ph) at her.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Do you accept these apologies?

KAREN KLEIN, BULLIED ON SCHOOL BUS: I haven`t gotten any yet.

They thought they were so smart. So smug. Make them wipe the smile off their face.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The YouTube clip gone viral sparking outrage across the country. A group of New York state seventh graders verbally abused 68- year-old school bus monitor Karen Klein.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God, you`re so fat. You`re so fat. You take up like the whole seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have a family cause they all killed themselves because they didn`t want to be near you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That last comment particularly hurtful to the grandma whose son actually did commit suicide. Something unclear if the children knew when they spewed those venomous words.

Boy this has struck a national nerve. Check this out from NBC`s today.


MATT LAUER, NBC HOST: I saw this video for the first time this morning and it`s one of the most upsetting and depressing things that I have seen in a very long time. The way these children treat you on that bus, and I use the word "children", there are a lot of other things I would like to call them.

I`ll tell you what I think about them now, I think they`re narrow- minded monsters, to be perfectly honest with you and I think their parents should be ashamed of them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But now the bullies themselves are getting death threats. One has even been targeted in a hostage hoax.

Straight out to ken baker, E! chief news correspondent; what can you tell us about the backlash specifically?

KEN BAKER, E! CHIEF NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, this has been - - just national outrage has been spurred by this. I mean, just in my interactions with people here at work, people -- I can`t tell you how many people have seen this video and just said, you know what, I turned it off after 10 or 20 seconds. I couldn`t watch it any longer.

And I mean in this day and age where people are consuming viral videos and want to see everything and people don`t want to see this? That shows you how bad it is. And I think it definitely raises the question of civility. It raises the question of how we`re raising our kids.

They just happened to catch this on video. And it just happened to be posted. I`m certain that this goes on in a lot of places on a lot of buses. I saw the bully documentary earlier this year that came out. I highly recommend that to people. That was a real eye-opener on what`s happening. In fact, this isn`t something that`s new. It just happened to be captured.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can watch the Daytime Emmy Awards live tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on HLN. This year`s presentation will feature tributes to beloved shows that recently finished their runs. Check it out Saturday at 8:00 and don`t miss a special "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", Emmy preview show tonight at 9:00.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re a troll, you`re a troll, you`re a troll. You old troll.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about I bring my knife and (EXPLETIVE DELETED). If I stabbed you in the stomach, I`d (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my knife would go through your like butter because it`s all (EXPLETIVE DELETED) lard.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a horrifying, horrifying thing to say to this elderly woman. And I have to say, how there is blow back, backlash. Even though two of the kids have apologized, some of these kids are getting threats, as well as their parents.

TMZ reporting, Midwin Charles, that there was a fake hostage situation, somebody called and said they were holding one of the kids` families` hostage. Police raced to the scene, they set off perimeter, and it was a big hoax. But they`re getting the blow back as it were.

CHARLES: They are and they`re starting to understand and feel what it`s like to be bullied and harassed to kind of be embarrassed. And that part is unfortunate, right, because that`s not something that we want to condone or encourage.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, of course not.

CHARLES: But I just can only imagine that their parents are horrified at what they when they watched that video, like everybody else. And I am hoping that they put together some sort of press conference and apologize to this woman in person. And they do volunteer work at her home. I mean this is unacceptable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The parents need to look in the mirror. Where did their kids get this attitude? Where did this kids learn this kind of attitude? That`s what I want to know. They didn`t come out of nowhere.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Covering some footage from an undercover investigation sending shockwaves through the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re talking about standard industry practices that are so inhumane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 280 million egg-laying hens are suffering in tiny cages across the U.S. today.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fantastic news The Humane Society has just scored another huge victory. Rhode Island now the 7th state to ban pig gestation crates for veal and pigs. So veal crates, pig crates -- these crates are horrific. They`re a nightmare, look at them. Once you see them you can never get it out of your head.

But on the heels of that huge victory, a bigger battle looming; more than 280 million hens suffering as we speak, in cages so small they can`t spread their spring, forced to live their entire lives in a tiny, tiny -- what amounts to a tiny sheet of paper like what you write.

There is hope: a new bill in Congress, HR 3798 -- remember it HR 3798 -- The Egg Bill.

Now I want to go straight out to Paul Shapiro from the Humane society, how can people help get the egg bill passed and why is it good news for 280 million hens?

PAUL SHAPIRO, THE HUMANE SOCIETY: Jane, in the egg industry in the United States, hundreds of millions of birds are locked inside of cages so cramped they can`t even spread their wings. In fact, if you were to take a standard piece of paper and hold it up and fold it back by about one-third, this is how much space each one of these animals has on which to live for more than a year before she`s slaughtered.

It really is difficult to imagine a more miserable existence, yet this federal hen protection bill, as you said, HR 3798 offers these birds some promise of an improved plight. People need to contact their members of Congress and urge them to support HR 3798 to reduce the suffering of hundreds of millions of egg-laying hens in the United States.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Support the egg bill. It`s so easy. We can all be a part. You can go to my page, Facebook or Jane Velez-Mitchell page, and you can get involved. But the main thing is go to HSUS, support the egg bill. Call your senator, your congressman and say pass it.