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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Penn State Cover-Up of Sandusky`s Abuse?
Aired June 25, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Now I want to bring in Jane Velez- Mitchell, because Jane, you used to live in the Florida area. And you know, there`s a lot of concern in that area about these heavy rains. They keep pounding the area. What`s it like for you, because you`re not too far from that area, right? Where you used to live?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Well, I used to live in Fort Myers. That was a long time ago, Brian. But I have to tell you: I didn`t experience anything like that in the couple of years I lived down in Florida. And I do believe, and I have had scientists on my show and talked to them, that extreme weather conditions are increasing.
Now, climate change is sort of a misnomer. It`s not just things getting warmer or global warming. It`s really a lot about extreme weather. So we`re seeing, freakishly, increases in the level of snow. New York City a couple years ago had more snow. Broke some kind of crazy record. And I looked at the snowfall. I said, "This looks freakishly extreme."
Now we`re seeing an increase in tornadoes. We`re seeing an increase in flooding. We`re seeing an increase in fires all across the country. And in many different ways we`re seeing an increase in extreme weather.
And we`re going to begin tonight with the latest developments in the conviction of Jerry Sandusky. The spotlight now on Penn State and how that university will handle what many expect to be an avalanche of lawsuits from the victims.
And today Jerry Sandusky told his attorney that he wants out of isolation in jail?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, now is it time for Penn State to pay in the wake of the overwhelming avalanche of guilty verdicts for Jerry Sandusky? A laser is now focused on Penn State as critics say this institution let a predator use their locker room to sexually abuse his young victims. Who knew what, when? Was in a cover-up? If so, could more charges be brought against others connected to this prestigious university? Tonight, we`ll hear from two victims and a juror.
Plus, I`m taking your calls.
And a Florida millionaire vanishes after claiming that his wife, just hours earlier, had asked for a divorce. Cops found the boat he was last seen on with the engine running and the lights still on. But he was nowhere to be found. Tonight the 35-year-old mogul`s mom says her son could be suffering from a psychotic break. Is the mom now caught in the middle of a bitter money battle with the missus? We`re investigating. The mystery of the millionaire lost at sea.
Plus, porn star Jenna Jameson charged with DUI. The actress smashed her car into a poll last month, and cops now say Jameson was under the influence of prescription drugs, alcohol, and a powerful drug used to treat opiate addictions in recovery centers. Is this star battling addiction?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you have to say about the verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say to the victims?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From day one, they believed these victims. You could feel the emotion. There was no doubt about it, that they were telling the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I looked at him during the verdict, I could see tears running down his eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when the counsel read, she sobbed in silence, and his eyes just filled with tears.
JOE AMENDOLA, ATTORNEY FOR JERRY SANDUSKY: Jerry had always wanted to testify.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All these people see it. They tell everybody in the locker room, the janitor, the manager of the janitors. Nobody reports it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone was talking in the football hallways at not just Penn State, but various universities.
LINDA KELLY, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Concealing or attempting to minimize this type of crime is unacceptable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think the university should have to, you know, suffer from his actions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight the drama and the fallout over the Jerry Sandusky guilty verdicts. Was there a terrible conspiracy to cover up the former Penn State football coach`s disgusting sexual assaults on boys in the university`s locker rooms?
Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live tonight.
The crowd reached a feverish pitch outside the Pennsylvania courthouse as the Sandusky verdict was announced. Guilty! Guilty, guilty, guilty on 45 of 48 counts of child sexual abuse. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERS)
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cheers from the crowd. Sandusky looking wobbly on his feet as the jury foreman read the verdict, repeating "guilty" for all the three (ph) charges over a course of almost four minutes.
His bond immediately revoked, he was hauled off to jail to await sentencing.
One juror spoke out to NBC about how he knew they had made the correct decision to convict this child molester. Listen to this from "The Today Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, it was just confirmation, again. You know, I saw -- I looked at him during the reading of the verdict. And just the look on his face, no real emotion. Just kind of accepting, you know, because he knew it was true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, with Sandusky behind bars, what`s next for Penn State, the university some say helped Sandusky cover up the rapes of young boys?
What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. I want to hear from you.
Straight out to "Patriot News" reporter Sara Ganim, who won a Pulitzer Prize for her ground-breaking work on this story.
Glad to have you with us tonight, Sara. What are the -- let me first of all, let`s talk about some breaking news. I understand that we`ve gotten word -- is this true? -- that Jerry Sandusky doesn`t want to be in isolation?
SARA GANIM, REPORTER, "PATRIOT NEWS" (via phone): That`s right. His attorney, Karl Rominger, told me that he was the first person to be able to go visit Jerry Sandusky in the county jail where he`s being held. And Karl Rominger told me that Jerry Sandusky was asking him, "When do I get out of isolation?"
Now, he`s only there by a judge`s order right now, so that he can undergo a mental-health evaluation by a psychologist to determine if he is suicidal. That`s why he`s on so-called suicide watch.
But Rominger said that Jerry -- he said something to the effect of, you know, "I don`t think I`m suicidal. But if I stay in the cell for a couple more days, I`m going to go nutty."
He really wants to, in Rominger`s words, be able to get out and walk around. That`s what he said: he wants to be able to walk around.
When I asked him if he was concerned about the safety of Mr. Sandusky in such a setting, in general population, he said no. He said the jail had really good policies and procedures, and that the block that he would be on, Jerry Sandusky, where his cell would be, only has a very few amount of inmates.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, it`s fascinating because I read that at one point he was incarcerated, the fellow jail mates were taunting him at night by singing that "Just Another Brick in the Wall" song. "Teacher, teacher," whatever that is.
So apparently, this guy`s got a thick skin. And I guess we`ve learned from you, Sara, that A, he doesn`t seem very suicidal, and B, he`s more concerned about his own wellbeing, which is totally par for the course.
Katherine Hall, you are a spokesperson for abused children. This guy is already thinking about his own comforts. It boggles my mind. Because I try to put myself in his shoes and think what shame, what humiliation, what disgrace, Happy Valley cheering his convictions. And guess what? He`s already thinking about his own personal comforts.
KATHERINE HALL, SPOKESPERSON FOR ABUSED CHILDREN: Well, what we`ve seen is a real collective outpouring and encouragement from survivors nationwide. So at RAINN, we`re really focused on increasing hotline traffic we`ve had. We`ve seen over 30 percent increase in people coming forward and getting help. Primarily amongst those who are self-identifying as male survivors.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me just say this. What I was talking about, John Lieberman, is that this guy is a complete and utter narcissist that -- here he is, the shame. I experience shame by vicariously just hearing that cheer, and yet, the guy is already worried about, "Oh, am I going to be able to walk around?"
JOHN LIEBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORT: He wants rec time. He wants time in the yard. He wants better meals. He wants access to the canteen, like the general population.
And there`s more, Jane. He also told his attorney today that he wants people to know that he`s not guilty. That was the quote to his attorney that his attorney relayed to the media. On the heels of this jury speaking so loudly on behalf of victims, he`s proclaiming his innocence again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is absolutely incredible to me. And it really dovetails with this entire sense of entitlement, this man walking through this case, virtually laughing, smiling during this horrific testimony of boys that he raped. And it really is a study in arrogance, entitlement, malignant narcissism, which are probably traits of a pedophile.
Now that the trial is over, the real trouble begins for Penn State University. There are scores of victims waiting to sue the university in civil court, some of whom are not even part of this case. Listen to the mother of one victim who spoke to "GMA."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even after therapy he doesn`t feel comfortable saying what happened to him to me. He`s a strong one. He`s a survivor, and he`ll get through it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Penn State now says they`re inviting victims to meet with them so they can privately, expeditiously, and fairly address the victims` concerns and compensate them for claims relating to the university. In plain old English, they want to settle out of court.
So Sara Ganim, again, you`ve broken this story. Remember, Penn State has $1.8 billion in endowment. How is this going to play out? How do you put a dollar figure on pain and suffering caused by Jerry Sandusky? What do you know? What`s the inside story here?
GANIM: Well, I can`t answer that question, obviously. If it went to civil court, that would be for a jury to decide.
But I can tell you this. I`ve been doing some research on it. You look at the civil claim payout, the average payout in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal, which has some parallels to the story. Same kind of hierarchy where there is some knowledge of abuse, and again, a serial nature. The average payout in those cases was about $3 million per survivor.
Now Penn State, on the day of the verdict, put a statement out that said that they wanted to proactively meet with the victims in this case and talk about a settlement outside of court and compensating them for the abuse that they endured.
And when I talked to some of the attorneys who are representing these victims -- I talked to two of them, and both said they thought it was a good idea. One of them, however, said, now is not the right time.
They want to wait and see what the internal investigation report, which is due out sometime either late summer or early fall, is going to say. Because that will give a better understanding. They think it will give a better understanding of how much Penn State knew and what exactly Penn State did, before they have any kind of sit-down and start talking about any kind of payout.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this, Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, we`re going to get to the conspiracy, alleged, in a moment.
But is $3 million enough when this university -- per child -- and we`re just talking hypothetically, as Sara said. That`s sort of a track record in cases with some commonalities. I would think, given the -- just unbelievable facts of this case, that it would have to be a lot more when Penn State has a $1.8 billion endowment.
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. But it comes down to this. How much do these survivors still want to drag this through the legal process?
There is no amount of money in the world that will ever compensate these young men for what they were put through, because somebody was too chicken to do the right thing and call the authorities when they saw a baby being raped in the shower. So no, there`s no amount of money.
But they`re going to say, "Hey, you know what? I don`t want this to drag on in my life. I don`t want to go through three years of civil discovery. I don`t want to continue to have to give news interviews." Because there is no amount of money, because it`s a principle thing, you`ll see some of the victim -- survivors, excuse me, going ahead and saying, "You know what? Let me just get it over with."
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC: PINK FLOYD`S "ANOTHER BRICK IN THE WALL")
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: ok, That from YouTube, The Pink Floyd song that fellow inmates were SUPPOSEDLY singing at Jerry Sandusky, taunting him at one point.
But no mind. Even though he has been convicted and he was supposedly on suicide watch, unh-uh, not so fast. He says he wants out of isolation, saying according to his lawyer, quote, "I don`t think I`m suicidal. I`m dealing with this. But if I have if I have to sit around in this cell for a few more days, I am going to go nutty."
Wow. This guy is already thinking about his own comforts, even as I was naive enough to think, "Oh, my gosh. Maybe he is suicidal, because this is such a shameful thing." No. I guess pedophiles don`t feel shame.
Was there a massive cover-up at Penn State? That`s the next big question. That`s what some are claiming. Listen to what one victim`s lawyer said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can a 55-year-old man in his position never get another job? Someone was talking in the football hallways at not just Penn State, but various universities, and we are going to be working very hard to get the truth out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now we have two former Penn State officials, Gary Schultz and Tim Curley. They`re charged with lying to the grand jury about all of this, the allegations, and failing to inform cops. They`re now set for trial.
But get this: NBC News is now reporting that its sources claim there are e-mails indicating then-president of Penn State Graham Spanier knew of the allegations against Sandusky and allegedly had discussions about them, and reportedly, the decision was made that the main thing to do about Jerry Sandusky and for Jerry Sandusky was not to call authorities.
We were not able to reach Graham Spanier. He`s invited on our show any time. Our attempts to reach lawyers for Curley and Schultz were referred back to Penn State, which did not give us a response.
Bottom line: was there a conspiracy of silence? What do you know about these e-mails, Sara Ganim, if they are indeed existing?
GANIM: Well, this is what prosecutors say. They put these e-mails, the content of these e-mails, at least partially into court filings, and that`s how we know about them.
The prosecutors who are -- charged Curley and Schultz with perjury, in their response, Curley and Schultz basically made a motion to the court to have the case dismissed for lack of evidence. And in the response, they said, "Look, we have these e-mails, and this shows a pretty strong case against you."
And what the court filing says was there were e-mails between Schultz and Graham Spanier that showed they had a conversation and decided it would be humane not to report Jerry Sandusky to authorities. Now this is all not just hearsay but within the court documents.
But what I think is most interesting about that revelation is not necessarily the content of the e-mails, because we haven`t seen the entirety of them, and we don`t know the context. But the fact that prosecutors actually did not find them. It was the internal investigation at Penn State University that found those e-mails.
They were supposedly -- they were dated so far back, 2001, that they were thought at one point not to be able to be recovered. And they got a hold of some kind of technology and they were able to recover these lost e- mails. And they turned them over to the attorney general`s office.
So it was actually Penn State`s internal investigation that set them up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Wow. Great information, Sara.
Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, do you think others will face charges? You can`t have a conspiracy of one or two. Usually you can`t have a conspiracy, I guess, whatever the technical definition is. But usually there`s a bunch of people involved. And from what we`re hearing, lawyers may have even weighed the possibility of doing nothing.
HUGHES: Right. And you`re exactly right. You`re going to see a lot more people implicated and a lot more people charged. Think of -- this program, this football program is so important and it`s so vital, financially speaking, to this institution.
And basically, what the allegations are, Jane, is that they gave up children for money. That`s what they did. They didn`t want their program to be tainted or go down in flames, so they just continued to offer up children as lambs to the slaughter to a pedophile.
So yes, this is vast reaching. It`s going to -- we`re going to see a lot more people implicated. And it`s going to go a lot higher up than just the coaching staff. Because when you`re talking this much money to an institution, you know the higher ups had to have a say in that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Check out my editorial on HLNTV.com about what I think Penn State should do to compensate these victims.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(CHEERING)
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am very excited to have with me tonight Tom Mesereau, criminal defense attorney, famous of course, for his successful defense of Michael Jackson on child molestation charges. There have been commonalities cited between that trial and this.
But the big difference, Tom, is you got your client completely acquitted, and this defendant, Jerry Sandusky, went down -- there was only three charges that he wasn`t found guilty of.
I was listening to you talking the other day when you said, "Don`t take this conviction for granted." So what are your thoughts now after we have this overwhelming victory by prosecutors?
TOM MESEREAU, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, clearly, the jury saw no way to go otherwise. I mean, it seems to me that they probably should have spent a longer period of time, I would think, with that many counts. But they seem as if they came to their own conclusions very, very quickly.
And it sounds like the prosecutors got a jump on him right away, and I don`t think the defense ever really caught up to them. In the Michael Jackson trial, my attitude was we have to really come out swinging right away, take some momentum from the prosecution, or we`re never going to catch up. And fortunately, it worked for us. But obviously, it didn`t work for Mr. Sandusky.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve always said if I`m ever in trouble, I`m calling Tom Mesereau. I watched you in that courtroom, and you were brilliant. You took a case that was an open and shut case against, as everybody said, and you won completely.
Now, the likely basis of an appeal in the Sandusky case is ineffective assistance of counsel and the rush to have a speedy trial. Let`s listen to the defense attorney, Joe Amendola.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMENDOLA: Stay tuned. I mean, come on. It`s like a soap. You have to wait and see. I think it`s "General Hospital." It could be "All My Children."
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tom Mesereau, there`s the defense attorney joking about how this trial is like "All My Children." If they want to get an a successful appeal, maybe they should play the clip of the attorney, who`s kind of a goof ball, joking about a child molestation trial being like "All My Children"?
MESEREAU: Well, I think the comments are very inappropriate. They surprise me.
But they don`t surprise me as much as the comments while the jury was deliberating where he apparently said, "I`ll be shocked if it`s an acquittal. And I`ll have a heart attack if there`s an acquittal." I`ve never heard a defense lawyer make remarks like that. They seem very inappropriate to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you think that there was such a different result in this case than in your case? Again, it`s child molestation. There are a number of accusers in both cases. They were very similar kinds of situations where people accused Michael Jackson of luring kids, using Neverland. In this case it was the Second Mile and Penn State and the football program.
So many commonalities, and yet, the verdicts couldn`t be more different.
MESEREAU: Well, you know, Jane, we did have time to investigate. We investigated the backgrounds of every single prosecution witness we could think of. We found all sorts of information that we used to attack their credibility and their motives.
And it may be that the defense in the Sandusky case needed a lot more time. I gather they filed a motion, asking to be relieved. under seal. And I suspect it talks about a lot of things they wanted to do and couldn`t do. So they may have a point, I don`t know. Every criminal defendant has a right to effective assistance of counsel at every stage of the proceeding. Pretrial and trial. So we`ll see what happens on appeal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You really think there`s a chance for successful appeal here?
MESEREAU: Based on what little I know, and I`m in California. Not in the courtroom. I don`t think there`s much of a chance on appeal. Remember, an appeal is based on the transcript alone. You don`t bring in new evidence on appeal.
If the appeals don`t work, the defense can bring in new evidence that wasn`t there or wasn`t introduced effectively. I suspect they`re continuing the investigation and trying to find witnesses who they would like to have called to impeach the credibility of these accusers.
So you never know what`s going to happen in the future.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tom, it is always a delight talking to you. And I know that you`re going to be talking Sandusky with Dr. Drew tonight at 9. So I`ll be hanging around. I hope our viewers do, as well, to watch it.
Always great to talk with you, Tom.
MESEREAU: Thanks for having me, Jane. I appreciate it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His mother wasted no time trying to get ahold of his fortune, a whopping $100 million. She`s petitioning to be the guardian of his estate, instead of his wife. And in a strange twist, court documents show just last month Aguiar changed ownership of his property in the event of incapacity from his wife to his mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A new twist tonight in the case of a multimillionaire lost at sea, or was he? Guma Aguiar disappeared at sea off the Florida coast, and some reports claim that it was just hours after his wife asked for divorce.
This guy is worth $100 million. His mother moved quickly to take control of her son`s $100 million estate. I got to tell you, when this boat washed up, Aguiar was not on board, but apparently, the engine was running. His cell phone was on board. His wallet was on board.
All these very mysterious events raising very interesting questions about the state of mind of this mystery multimillionaire.
Give me a holler on this case but I want to go out to Jon Leiberman, investigative reporter, HLN contributor; tell us what happened. There was a boat. There was a multimillionaire. What went down?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: It`s very, very strange. The boat is then found, as you just said. It was still running. This guy`s wallet and cell phone are in there. And the coast guard launches a huge search along with other police agencies, doesn`t find anything. And then within three days, there`s all of these legal filings fighting for the estate between the wife and the mother and it`s -- I`ve never seen so many legal filings.
And the search now or the focus now isn`t even on finding out what happened to this guy. It`s more on what`s going to happen with his money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, that is very bizarre. You think the first priority would be where is this man? Is he dead or alive? Now Guma`s mom, Ellen, talked about her son`s mental state. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLEN AGUIAR, MOTHER OF MISSING MAN: We still hope that someone found him. We hope that by some miracle that Guma is still alive. The other option is because of the problems with his boat and the tumultuous sea that he was tossed from the boat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, that was from ABC, and ABC is reporting that Ellen is fighting for control of her son`s $100 million fortune and that she claims her son`s property is in imminent danger of being wasted or lost by Guma`s wife.
So I want to go out to Richard Baron, the attorney for Ellen Aguiar, the mother of this missing millionaire. Thank you so much for joining us, sir. First of all, why the concern over the estate? You`d think that the first concern would be let`s find him. Do you think he`s dead? Do you think he`s alive? . What do you think happened to this man?
RICHARD BARON, ATTORNEY FOR ELLEN AGUIAR (via telephone): I don`t know what happened to him, Jane. But the question is why did the mother act? And there`s a number of litigations going on between Guma and his uncle, litigation in Israel, litigation that has very short deadlines where there has to be somebody who can direct the attorneys on what to do.
And the reason the mother acted quickly wasn`t to get control of the estate. She was seeking to be appointed a conservator and actually the court has control under those circumstances. The mother was acting as the conservator.
As a consequence of her filing, the wife filed a counter petition, seeking the same position. And the mother made the decision that it isn`t control she wants; she just wants to make sure things are smooth with the estate. It is a lot of money. There are people who have to employed and taken care of. So she made the decision to ask the court not to appoint her but to appoint Northern Trust, a large commercial enterprise that specializes in representing estates and wealthy people in matters related to what we`re seeking here.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this question, sir.
Ok. No, I`m not suggesting. I`m just asking questions because we had heard reports that the mother of this missing multimillionaire doesn`t believe he may be really dead. That he`s had a history of bipolar, allegedly. And she thinks he may just be off somewhere delusional or even psychotic. What do you know about that?
BARON: I know that mothers are internally optimistic and she`s hopeful that he is alive. But all indication is that he went on this boat alone on Tuesday night. The boat surfaced with the motor running, the lights on, his wallet and cell phone in it and him gone. And I think the reality is that he has either committed suicide or was washed overboard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you this, and I`m just playing devil`s advocate. Let me just say this. This is the first thing I thought of it.
It brought to mind the predicament involving a boyfriend of Olivia Newton-John. Her boyfriend was believed dead after disappearing from a fishing boat off the coast of California in 2005. He was found alive, years later in Mexico by private investigators, and many believe he faked his death to cash in on a life insurance policy.
Now, this man is very different from Guma, because he had a lot of money problems, whereas Guma is a very wealthy man. If you can hang on for a second, Richard; I`m going to ask Holly Hughes. Do you think it`s odd timing that we hear reports -- and I think they came from the mother -- that the wife of this man asked for a divorce just hours, allegedly, purportedly before he disappears?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This whole case is odd, Jane, because bear in mind too, we heard that just prior to his disappearance, he had said in the event that I`m incapacitated, make sure that my wife doesn`t have control over the assets, my mother does. So even he is kind of looking forward to what, disappearing on his own?
The whole thing just seems very, very odd and sketchy and staged. And let`s hope it is. Because if it`s staged, that means he`s alive somewhere, he just kind of wanted to check out in the meantime.
But yes, all of the timing, the switching of who`s going to be in charge of the assets, then his wife asks him for a divorce. Then this person who does have a history, admittedly -- his family has said he has been in treatment for illness -- takes his boat out, and the boat returns without him being on it.
So everything is very, very strange. But let`s hope for the best. Let`s hope he`s staging his own disappearance, which means he`s alive somewhere.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Richard, what would you say to those -- we don`t want to mention the wife`s name. We haven`t been able to reach her. She`s invited on our show any time. We want to be completely fair. This is a breaking news story. What would you say to those who would wonder, well, maybe he`s not really dead. He`s going to reappear. And then all of his assets are going to be in the hands of someone else, and therefore if he were to get divorced, he wouldn`t have to pay anything because he wouldn`t have those assets?
BARON: Well, let me tell you two facts. First of all, the fact that he made his mother his pre-need guardian was because about a year or so ago he was found incompetent by a court filing -- filed by both the mother and the wife, seeking to have him protected from himself and a guardian was appointed.
During that time in his anger, he filed a suit for divorce and because he was incapacitated, it didn`t go anywhere. In fact the suit was dismissed. About three months before he disappeared, the wife filed a lawsuit trying to set aside the party`s prenuptial agreement.
And when she told him she wanted a divorce just before he disappeared, I think that was the straw that broke the camel`s back. I think he lost whatever sense of reality he had left. It really pushed him off the edge. He went to that boat ride. I don`t know if he went out there to kill himself. I don`t know if he went out there to clear his head. But he went out in dangerous conditions, and he didn`t return.
There`s no reason in the world he would stage his disappearance. He`s not as if he was looking for an insurance policy. He`s a very wealthy man. I think he was despondent. I think he suffers from bipolar disease. I think he lost it and went out in his boat, and I think he`s missing, and I think he may be dead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mr. Baron, attorney for Ellen Aguiar, the mom of this multimillionaire, thank you so much for joining us and answering our questions. It is a perplexing mystery. We`re going to stay on top of it. And we`ll bring you the very latest on it.
Now, tonight George Zimmerman finally admits he was wrong. No he wasn`t talking about shooting Trayvon Martin. He`s talking about lying to the judge. You`ll remember Zimmerman was thrown back in jail after prosecutors proved he knew exactly how much money he had, raked in from donations. In fact he tried to speak to his wife about it in code allegedly. Watch this.
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GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH MURDER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: If the bond is 50, pay the 50. If it`s more than 50, just pay 10 percent to the bondsman.
SHERRIE ZIMMERMAN, WIFE OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: You don`t want me to pay -- $100?
G. ZIMMERMAN: I don`t know.
S. ZIMMERMAN: All right. Well, just think about it.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now George says he, quote, "accepts responsibility for his part in allowing the court to be misled. Wow. Why the sudden change of heart? Because he`s asking the judge to set a new bond so he can get out of jail again. He says he surrendered his funds to his attorney. He poses no harm to the community. He`s not a flight risk. He seems to forget that one of the other reasons bond was revoked because he had two passports.
What will the judge decide? We`ll find out in a new hearing on Friday and we`ll tell you right here.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jenna Jameson is easily the best known porn star in the world. But today Jenna`s outrageous personal drama is stealing the spotlight. Tito is claiming this whole incident stems from Jenna`s alleged drug problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wake up every day and tell her how beautiful she is, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The porn star`s ultimate drama.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Made a name for herself as one of the biggest porn stars of all time. But now is Jenna Jameson battling addiction? Jameson charged with a DUI after crashing her car into a light pole last month. Cops say she blew a 0.13, almost double the limit, and had Ambien and (inaudible) a powerful drug used to treat opiate addiction in her system at the time of her arrest.
Straight out to news manager, Mike Walters; what`s going on with Jenna?
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ NEWS MANAGER: Well, like you said, Jane, she got charged with DUI on Friday. She blew a 0.13, which is almost double the legal limit. The problem though is the prescription drugs in her system. She very famously was blamed by her fiance at the time and father of her children Tito Ortiz for having an Oxycontin addiction. That it was breaking them up.
The problem is the drug found in her system is used to treat opiate addiction. I hate to see that Jenna might be back down that road. She`s a mother of twins that I think are three years old now. So I hate to see that.
This could be bad though. She could end up a year in jail. She has to go to an Orange County court. They just set the date for July 25th. But like I said, you know, the prescription drugs in her system and the alcohol, really bad to see somebody struggling with addiction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mike Walters, always great to hear from you. I think you probably agree she takes one of the best mug shots in the business, this lady.
But again, one of the prescription drugs Jameson allegedly had in her system was Suboxone. Now, it`s problematic because it`s supposed to help people kick their addiction. But Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN`s Dr. Drew - - I`m so delighted you could join us -- this drug Suboxone even though it`s supposed to be used to treat addiction, it`s often misused as a recreational drugs. Tell us about that.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Well, Jane, I`m no fan of Suboxone. I mean Suboxone can be a very important drug and life saving for some people with opiate addiction. But for someone like Jenna who has a rich life and tons of resources, she categorically should have made an attempt at (inaudible) treatment.
I want to flip this story on its head and say I want to come to Jenna`s defense and say this is a very sad indictment of whoever is treating her. So in my experience somebody who has taken Suboxone can do well for a period of time. It`s like methadone. We give them something to sort of get them off their primary drug. It makes them feel better. It flattens out some the crazy behaviors. But it`s not a way to put somebody with a rich life and tons of resources into a complete remission.
Jane, if you or I develop opiate addiction, it would be unthinkable to put us on Suboxone because we couldn`t return to our life. We couldn`t do it. We would still be on drugs. And what many people don`t realize when they prescribe Suboxone, the addiction is still active. And so all the thinking and manipulation and the distortion associated with addiction go on and of course, the addict starts using other substances in addition.
I have addicts in treatment on Suboxone, getting Suboxone from a doctor, going every week to their appointment, telling the doctor how great they`re doing. And they actually to inject the Suboxone, you know. I mean it`s just a mess. I think Jenna got caught in a web that I don`t want to blame her for.
I mean somebody had to give her the Ambien prescription. You take somebody like Jenna on Ambien and Suboxone, of course, she`s going to drink. And if she drinks, she`s going to drink too much. I feel very sorry for her. I hope she gets in a program that can treat her from an abstinence approach.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. My heart goes out to her. I find it fascinating though that to get somebody off an addiction they give them another drug that gets them high. Essentially, Suboxone does get you high, right?
PINSKY: Not as much as say, heroin or -- I have patients that have used it all the time. As I said, they even shoot it. But it`s very much (inaudible) say methadone. It`s not as gratifying. It doesn`t make people as high.
But what people who really don`t fully understand addiction don`t know is it`s the addictive process and the thinking and the distortions are still quite active. If somebody is on the street with no job and no resource and is going to die if we don`t do something, absolutely, methadone and Suboxone, these are excellent alternatives. But for somebody like Jenna who has a life and a career and children, should never be considered for more than a week or two.
The problem is they get put on maintenance. When they complain that it`s miserable to get off of they get left on it. And then you have outcomes like what we`re seeing here. They use other things. They have consequences and it`s sad.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you`re no longer doing drugs.
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I`m not. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you do drink?
SHEEN: Well, who doesn`t?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, some people --
SHEEN: Do you drink?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who have been through rehab don`t drink.
SHEEN: Yes, I don`t blame you if you have any more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You still -- but that`s one of the things you stuck to.
SHEEN: Yes. It`s just not for me.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s Charlie Sheen on GMA. Charlie Sheen announcing, "Yes, I`m drinking again" a little over a year after he told ABC he miraculously got sober by blinking his eyes.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried you`re going to relapse.
SHEEN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?
SHEEN: Because I`m not going to (inaudible). I blinked and I quit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But how do you know.
SHEEN: I blinked and I cured my brain. That`s how. Everybody has the power.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Drew, if people don`t realize by this time either you`re sober or you`re not. You can`t say you`re sober from drugs and drink. That`s exactly what Whitney Houston`s people said about her.
PINSKY: That is exactly right, Jane. And it`s a very sad thing to hear this because it means inevitably that there`s going to be trouble. He does say one thing in this interview that I actually agree with. He says there`s not one size fits all for the treatment of addiction. And he`s absolutely right about that.
I mean he`s clearly had treatment for his bipolar disorder. He`s clearly had some sort of treatment -- probably behavioral cognitive behavioral therapy for his addiction so he`s better than he was. The problem is in so long as he maintains a relationship with a substance, the biology of addiction remains active and his life is in harm`s way.
It`s an inevitability -- it`s an inevitability that we`ll see something more like what you`re doing at here now in the not too distant future.
And even looks back at those -- this footage and goes I can`t believe that was me. He had no insight there into how sick he was. And he has no insight now into the implications of the fact that he continues to use alcohol.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean look, he`s at a turning point. He`s got this new show "Anger Management" a sitcom on FX. So this is an opportunity to turn himself around, but if he doesn`t quit drinking, it`s not going to work. You and I know this. How come this guy -- this guy can`t figure that out?
PINSKY: I know. Well, Jane, unfortunately there are a lot of physicians -- thank you for the promotion; we`re actually going to have an interesting program. But there are a lot of physicians that tell addicts, all they need is medical management and they`ll be ok because they`re better.
And he is better, but the fact is, he is still in harm`s way. I mean Jane, all the way back since the original big book was written, they were documenting people that tried to do it this way. What is it, many have tried, hats off to anyone who can. So far no one is -- I don`t know the exact quote, perhaps you do. But so far no one has been able to do what Charlie is attempting and actually stay sober.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Drew. I can`t wait to watch your show tonight, 9:00 Eastern right here on HLN. Always great to have you on.
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PINSKY: Thanks Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have got an update to a road rage shocker from last week. A brutal attack caught on tape in al L.A. freeway. Cell phone video captures a heated argument between a group of men. Traffic crawls around then. Then the fists start flying and you won`t believe what happens next.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Good news, two of the three men were formally charged today with assault.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here at HLN, we`re going to tell you all week about very specific ways you can live better and there`s no easier way to live better than to eat better.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Part of this puzzle of how are we going to help Americans get healthy is to get rid of the fake food and go back to real food, the way nature intended.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re talking about how we can all live better now. We`re talking real food -- fruits, veggies, food that isn`t processed in a box, isn`t made in a factory loaded with chemicals and additives and emulsifiers and all sorts of names we can`t pronounce. One of the biggest myths is that food, real food doesn`t taste good. That only processed, pre-packaged foods do.
Well, I`m going to go straight out to my guest, Christine Avanti, she`s the author of "Skinny Chicks Eat Real Food". It`s such a brainwashing that somehow -- mangos, pineapples, bak choi, those don`t taste good but something that`s made in a box by a bunch of people wearing white hats that does taste good. It`s nonsense.
CHRISTINE AVANTI, AUTHOR, "SKINNY CHICKS EAT REAL FOOD": I couldn`t agree with you more Jane. It`s absolute craziness. And not only that but this processed fake food, cause a lot of health issues. They`re a big reason why a lot of people cannot ever seem to feel satisfied with eating factory food so they continue to eat and eat and eat. And they gain weight.
These factory foods are loaded with salt and extra sugars to kind of replace the flavor that you would get in real food. That`s a big issue as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right. That was explained to me the other day by Brendan Brazier, an ultra marathoner. He said that when we have cravings, it`s actually we`re looking for nutrients for our body. So we take on all these calories eating junk food but it doesn`t stop the craving because the craving is for the nutrients that aren`t contained inside the junk food. Your thoughts on that.
AVANTI: Absolutely. And the thing is, when you get a factory food, really -- I mean it`s not really a food anymore. The nutrients have been taken out. The fibers have been taken out and have been replaced with texturizers, emulsifiers, different coloring and things to make it look thick or seem crunchy when if you just eat real food, you`re going to get all the real flavor.
Yes, it doesn`t last as long in your refrigerator. You know you`re not going have fresh fruits and vegetables and whole grain lasting weeks and months on end. But food was never meant to be like that. You should be shopping locally at your farmer`s market or even at your regular grocery store and getting your stuff every other day or every few days as opposed to leaving stuff things on your shelves and your kitchen for weeks and months on end.
And you know, this additives, the coloring, the dye, the MSG, they`re all very, very bad. I go into detail in my book on actually what the health problems are that are associated with these. And it`s very serious stuff.
What I would say keep it simple, keep it real, eat real food. Shop on the outer perimeter of the grocery store as you see on the screen, and do your best to inform yourself of how to feed your family real food.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re talking about colorizing, emulsifying, stabilizing and texturizing, all of this bleep -- I can`t say it, that`s put into food that then are put into boxes, we`re paying for all the packaging when nature made simple edible food that is actually cheaper. That`s another myth that it`s more expensive to eat healthy. It`s not true.
AVANTI: No, it`s not true. And you can actually sign up for what`s called a CSA box locally in your neighborhood. You can look online -- I talk about them in my book. It`s a community supported agriculture box and what you do is every week they`ll deliver the box and you get an assortment of seasonal fruits and vegetables at a very low price, most of the time they are organic, so that`s a really good expensive way to go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you are proof. You look good.
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