Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Ft. Worth Teen Found Shot to Death by Upscale Back Door; Teen Girl Found Shot Multiple Times, Mother Abuses Her 10-Month-Old Baby
Aired July 05, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Fort Worth. A 17-year-old high school junior plans college and a career as an actress. But when a 6:00 PM 911 call reports a girl`s body face down at the back door of an upscale home eight miles away, a single gunshot to the head, her parents fear the worst.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we confirm a positive ID of high schooler 17-year-old Claudia. Tonight, the investigation takes a hairpin turn when the mystery man who calls 911 -- he`s not a suspect, not a person of interest -- backs off, now refusing to even speak to police. Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) gunshots, right -- one after another.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The murder of a teenage girl, 17-year-old Claudia Hidic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Found shot in the head, was found face down outside the back door of a home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Richard Craig was walking in the park across the street the night the 17-year-old was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boom, boom, boom, boom. I thought it was fireworks going off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This neighbor says he heard suspicious noises coming from his next-door neighbor`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a loud bang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops received a 911 call from a man who found the teen outside his back door shortly before 6:00 PM.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gunshot wound to her head. The home`s back door had also been kicked in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police search for clues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now they`re searching for her killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Connecticut. A mother of two abuses and tortures her own 10-month-old baby girl. Then in a gut-wrenching twist, we learn that Mommy videotapes the whole thing to send to Daddy as payback.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say she assaulted, berated and tormented her helpless infant daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She shouldn`t be allowed to have children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She sent cell phone videos to the little girl`s father recorded inside her second-floor apartment. Police say the videos depict a terrified and traumatized little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say the mother sends more than half a dozen videos, abuse that allegedly includes the mother kicking a gate on top of her crying baby and shaking the baby`s pack-and-play to the point that she falls out of it, falling onto the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Along with dozens of threatening text messages.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`ll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) break her face! Your daughter now has a broken arm and no food. I love abusing this kid!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) her own 10-month-old baby girl screaming and crying at times in pain. Another video, according to police, shows Parks saying, quote, "Roll over, you`re not worth half a cigarette."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The allegations shocking and disturbing, a 20- year-old mom allegedly seen tormenting and assaulting the defenseless baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A 17-year-old Fort Worth high school junior found face down at the back door of an upscale home only eight miles away from her home, a single gunshot wound to the head. In the last hours, the investigation takes a hairpin turn. The mystery man who calls 911 -- he`s not a suspect, he`s not a person of interest -- backs off, now refusing to even speak to police.
I`ve got a lot of questions about what went down behind that upscale home and why a high school junior with plans of college, an aspiring actress ends up dead with a single gunshot wound to the head.
Straight out to Robyn Walensky and Chuck Schechner, KRLD, Chuck joining us right now out of Fort Worth. First to you, Chuck. What happened? What do we know?
CHUCK SCHECHNER KRLD (via telephone): As you said, a 911 call initiated this. The home owner called the police, said there was a body behind his house. Police arrived. They find Claudia Hidic face down with a gunshot wound to the head, dead behind a house, indication that somebody tried to kick in the back door.
He -- the home owner says he doesn`t know this person at all, but later kind of clams up and tells police he`s not cooperating anymore, police giving very few details as to what happened. All we know is her name and the fact she was shot in the head.
GRACE: You know, it doesn`t make sense that she`s shot in the head one time. Police are not releasing any information at all. We`ve learned all of this through other sources. And now we learn the back door to that upscale home -- apparently, there was an attempt to kick it in. I also know that the girl worked at a local Mexican restaurant, that she was planning to go to college, wanted to be an actress.
I want to go to you, Matt Zarrell. What more do we know? I want to go specifically through what we know about the time of the shooting of this high school junior.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK, Nancy, we believe the shooting was around 5:00 PM. There was witness -- there was a witness across the street at a park who heard multiple gunshots, and he actually reportedly saw four girls and a dog running away from the house.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! You just said multiple gunshots. Now, I`ve got a source telling me that it was at point-blank range. Now, if there were multiple gunshots, why did she only have one gunshot wound to the head? Now, who was this that hears multiple gunshots, Matt?
ZARRELL: It`s a witness that`s across the park. Now, I think, Nancy, one thing to point out here is that if there were multiple gunshots, I`m hoping that cops are able to find the other bullets, the other casings, in this case so they can match it up to a gun.
Also, Nancy, police were obviously looking for more evidence because after they discovered the body, they got a search warrant and searched the man`s home, looking for more evidence.
GRACE: Let`s back it up just for a movement. I want to go very quickly to Greg Kading, former LAPD detective, author of "Murder Rap." Greg, number one, if they find a casing, that`s not going to help. They`ve got to actually find the bullet to match it up to a particular gun.
We all know that a gun, as it dries -- it`s made, obviously, of metal. And when the metal cools, it leaves certain marks on the inside of the gun barrel itself. As a bullet hurdles through the gun, it is marked. The bullet is marked. It`s like a fingerprint. Those marks go to only one gun.
So not -- we don`t need the casing. We need the other bullets themselves. Then we`ve got to have the gun to match it up to.
GREG KADING, FMR. LAPD DETECTIVE: That`s correct, Nancy. But I will -- I think I can clarify something. The casing itself does still have investigative value. The imprint on the primer mark is something that can be traced back to a particular gun. The bullet`s better, but the casing`s good. So either of those can be very valuable as far as evidence is concerned.
GRACE: Yes. Good point. Good point. And we also know, Matt Zarrell -- a lot of people were speculating that a silencer may have been used, which has its own set of implications, if somebody has access to a silencer. But actually, across the street is a park. Someone in the park hears multiple gunshots. And then what do they see, Matt?
ZARRELL: There are reports that the witness says he saw four girls and a dog running away from the house. And we`re still trying to determine the age of these girls, where they were running from, did they have any weapons on them, why they were there in the first place, what connection they may have to the home. We`re still working to get that information.
GRACE: I also can`t tell from what you`re telling me, Matt, if these girls were out with a dog and they just started running -- maybe the dog started running when they heard the gunshot -- or were they actually witnesses to what happened to this little girl?
Everybody, a parent`s worst nightmare. A 17-year-old high school junior heading into her senior year, plans for college -- she was an aspiring actress, her whole world in front of her, she`s working at a local Mexican restaurant to try to save money for college -- she is found face down, a single gunshot wound -- we believe to the head, we can`t confirm that -- at a very upscale home.
Let`s see a shot of the home again, Liz. Nobody can figure out what, if any, connection she has to this home or this area. At the very beginning, the person, the man who lives in the home, extremely cooperative with police. In fact, I believe he`s the one that calls 911. And then all of a sudden, in the middle of everything, he clams up, refusing to speak to police at all.
OK, go ahead, Matt. Pick it up from where the guy in the park, the person in the park hears the gunshot and -- they don`t call 911, right?
ZARRELL: No. This happens at about 5:00 PM. This is the key to the timeline here, Nancy. At 5:00 PM is when the witness reportedly hears the gunshot. The 911 call from the man living in the home is shortly before 6:00 PM.
And to your point about the silencer -- if the man was living in the home and was at home at the time of the shooting, why didn`t he hear the shots, but the man in the park heard three gunshots?
GRACE: That`s my very next question, Matt. So if he`s in the home -- and we have no reason to believe he`s not in the home -- why does somebody hear the gunshots across the street on the other side of the park and he doesn`t? The gunshots ringing out around 5:00 PM. He calls just around 6:00 PM, just before 6:00 PM, a whole hour passes.
What more can you tell me about seeing girls and a dog running away from the scene, Matt?
ZARRELL: Nancy, we`re still trying to learn more about whether these girls are witnesses, what their involvement is in the case. And I also want to point you towards other people who were around the home on the day the body is found. There are reports that workers were in and out of the back of the home where the body was found, fixing an air conditioner. So those are more people that police, I`m sure, are trying to speak to tonight.
GRACE: Well, it`s my understanding, Robyn Walensky, anchor and reporter with TheBlaze, if people are there fixing an AC, it`s very possible they would have gone home at 5:00 o`clock. Were they even there?
But wa-wait! The timeline -- the shots rang out around 5:00 PM, so they very well could have been there.
ROBYN WALENSKY, THEBLAZE: Yes, I don`t believe the AC people were there. Key to this case that we cannot get the key fact, Nancy, is was she shot in the park and then the body was left behind the house, or was she shot at point-blank range right at the back of the house?
And you know what`s going to determine that? How much blood was there on the floor at the scene. Because you know, Nancy, that if she was shot in the head, there`s going to be a lot of blood right there behind the house. If she was shot in the park and then the body was transferred to the house, that`s a whole different story.
GRACE: This is a time when she should have been worried about the first football or a basketball game at high school or taking her SAT test, not her funeral being planned. This is a 17-year-old high school girl heading into her senior year, planning for college, wants to be an actress, working at a local Mexican restaurant to make money for college.
Instead, she is found dead face down behind an upscale home just a few miles away from her home, a few miles away from where she works. What happened to Claudia Hidic? That`s my question.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are investigating the murder of a 17-year- old teen beauty who was found shot in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Claudia Hidic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman lying near the kicked-in door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now they are searching for her killer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He heard suspicious noises coming from his next- door neighbor`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was three distinct gunshots right -- one right after the other, boom, boom, boom. I thought it was fireworks going off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man, who is not identified, is now reportedly refusing to talk to cops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now investigators are looking into whether it`s linked to her murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sight of yellow tape and contingent of police officers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very sweet and loving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s surprising to have something like this happen in a neighborhood that`s this nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A very upscale neighborhood there in Fort Worth gets the shock of a lifetime when a 17-year-old high school girl just found at the back door of someone`s home, face down, a single gunshot wound to the head. She was set to graduate in one year from Trinity High School there in Fort Worth, good grades, planning to go to college, an aspiring actress, even worked at a local Mexican restaurant to try to save money for college.
It all ended that afternoon. Around 5:00 PM, multiple gunshots ring out. People in the park next door hear it. An hour later, the owner of the home calls police. What happened in that hour? And why now is the man who lives there clamming up?
To Robyn Walensky. It`s my understanding he is not a person of interest. He is not a suspect. Why is he clamming up?
WALENSKY: It makes no sense to me. Why isn`t he speaking? To my mind, when I look at this -- does he have something else to hide?
GRACE: Very quickly to Chuck Schechner. Why do you believe he`s clamming up, refusing to speak to police? They`ve made it very clear he`s not a person of interest. He`s not a suspect.
SCHECHNER: Yes, that`s the big mystery here. It makes absolutely no sense. But none of this story does because the neighborhood (INAUDIBLE) You mentioned the location, nice neighborhood. There`s a school across the street, a public elementary school, that`s probably one of the prize schools in the city. People actually move into this neighborhood just to go to that school. That drives the house prices up.
It makes absolutely no sense, and there`s no legitimate reason why he would clam up after initially reporting this.
GRACE: We`re talking about a very upscale and very desired school district where this Trinity High School is, where she was attending. She was heading into her senior year, had just gotten out of junior high.
Out to the lines. Susan in California. Hi, Susan. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Please to speak with you. My question is, do you think that he was possibly threatened or maybe tipped off as to who it was? And maybe he knows...
GRACE: Good question. Unleash the lawyers. With us, Eleanor Odom, Peter Odom, joining us from Atlanta, and Seema Iyer, defense attorney out of New York. What about it, El?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, I, too, wonder why he`s clamming up and what`s going on with that. That directs the investigation. He is directing that investigation.
There`s no good reason for him to clam up unless there is something to hide. So you`re going to look directly at that. You`re going to look to the circumstances of the house and how she was found. Very suspicious, Nancy, especially with the door being kicked in. What`s that all about?
GRACE: Another thing -- to you, Peter Odom -- is he may be clamming up for a reason unrelated to this high school junior`s murder at his back door.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: I mean, yes, that obviously points to him as being involved somehow. The hour wait between the time people in the park hear the gunshot and him calling 911 -- that`s a problem for him, too. But there may be very innocent explanations to that.
PETER ODOM: Right.
GRACE: He may be clamming up for some other reason. I mean, how do I know he doesn`t have a whole basement full of pot, you know, under hydroponic lighting? I don`t know that.
I`m just throwing out the fact that sometimes people clam up, they don`t cooperate with police, they lie to police because they`ve got some other issue. Or it may very simply be that the more police questioning he gets, he`s, like, Hey, you know what? I`m not feeling good about this. I feel like you`re looking at me. I`m clamming up. It could be that, Peter.
PETER ODOM: Right, Nancy. That`s exactly what I was thinking. In an investigation like this that is...
GRACE: Oh, I`m sure you were.
PETER ODOM: ... so mysterious, the police have to ask some very tough questions of the man who reported it. They have to ask about his relationship with her. They might have to ask very suggestive questions about what happened. He might have just gotten ticked off and said, Look, I reported this, I did what I was supposed to do. I`m done. Leave me alone. Or again, he might have something to hide. We just don`t know at this point.
GRACE: OK. Seema, weigh in.
SEEMA IYER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m just a little annoyed about all the attention this witness is getting because, exactly, maybe he doesn`t want to be involved. Maybe this is more than he asked for.
GRACE: Wait. You`re annoyed about what?
IYER: I`m annoyed that we`re putting him on the hot seat on this show right now. It`s annoying me because if -- you know what? If the DA wants a material witness...
GRACE: Obviously -- somebody, go -- Liz, go check Seema`s hearing piece because I was just defending him. So maybe you could actually listen to what we`re saying and then come up with some zany argument. We were just all three agreeing -- OK, that would be Eleanor, Peter and myself -- that there are other reasons for him to back off from the police other than him being involved in a murder.
Did you hear that part?
IYER: I did hear that part, but I think this is altogether unnecessary attention that that man does not deserve. He has gone through a very traumatic experience about finding a dead body in the back of his home.
GRACE: Put her up, please! OK, Seema Iyer, defense attorney out of New York, have you ever defended a homicide case?
IYER: All the time. Many. Many.
GRACE: OK, have you ever been to a murder scene while the body is still there?
IYER: Yes.
GRACE: All right. When you`re there, I assume you saw the victim`s family?
IYER: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Given that, I`m very surprised -- out to you, Bethany Marshall -- that anybody in their right mind would compare the trauma of a witness calling 911 when they find a dead girl`s body to a murder investigation. To compare the urgency of those two, to me, is crazy.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Of course. This is a 17-year-old girl, a beloved member of a family who is frantic, and this guy who lives in this house. Whether or not it`s an innocent issue that he has going on -- maybe he`s having an affair, his wife was at work, something like that - - he heard that door being kicked in. He heard gunshot wounds (SIC) and waited an hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone had been shot behind the house. This just doesn`t happen down here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the renter came home after 6:00 PM and found the woman lying near the kicked-in door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With a gunshot wound to her head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports are the man`s back door was kicked in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What happened to a high school junior set to go for her last year of high school, already looking at colleges? She was found dead, face down in the back -- the back yard area, the back door of an upscale home, Fort Worth, one single gunshot wound to the head.
Joining me right now, Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining us tonight out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, thank you for being with us. What can we learn about the case investigation-wise from the gunshot wound itself?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Well, the wound itself, they will examine to see, is it a close contact wound or is it a distant wound? If it`s a close-contact wound, there should be some spatter, some gunpowder. And that`ll give them a better idea, was this person shot at close range? Did someone run this person down, shoot them in the head? Or were they shot at a distance? Did this person have their back door kicked in and then came out with a gun and then shot at people?
So it`s a crazy case. I`m not sure exactly what they`re going to find. But certainly, the gunshot wound will give them some evidence as to what`s going on.
GRACE: Well, what about trajectory path? What can we learn from that, Dr. Manion?
MANION: Well, if the bullet went through the head -- and you know, they`ll have an entrance wound and an exit wound, and there`s always the trajectory that they -- the forensic pathologist will study. They`ll say it`s from front to back, left to right, up to down. All three parameters will be studied.
And that can give them some idea, when they look at the location of the wound and the house itself -- that`ll give them some idea. Did the bullet come from the house itself, or was it from (INAUDIBLE) in the back yard itself? That will help them out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three distinct gunshots right -- one right after the other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The murder of a teenage girl, 17-year-old Claudia Hidic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Found shot in the head, was found face down outside the back door of a home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Richard Craig was walking in the park across the street the night the 17-year-old was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boom, boom, boom, boom. I thought it was fireworks going off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This neighbor says he heard suspicious noises coming from his next-door neighbor`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports are the man`s back door was kicked in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a loud bang.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cops received a 911 call from a man who found the teen outside his backdoor shortly before 6:00 p.m.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Gunshot wound to her head, the home`s back door had also been kicked in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police search for clues.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And now they are searching for her killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. What happened to 17-year-old Claudia, a high school junior at prestigious Trinity High School, set to go to college, wants to be an actress, even working at a local Mexican restaurant to save money for college.
We are taking your calls.
She is found face down in the backyard of an upscale neighborhood home. One gunshot wound to the head.
I want to go out to special guest, Chuck Schechner, joining us from KLRD there in the Fort Worth area.
Chuck, a couple of rapid fire, yes-no questions. Number one, was she clothed?
CHUCK SCHECHNER, REPORTER, KLRD 1080 AM: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Do we know of a sex assault?
SCHECHNER: No, there is no indication of any sexual assault at all.
GRACE: OK. Were there video cameras, security cameras in the neighborhood?
SCHECHNER: Not that we`re aware of. Police mentioned they`re going to look for that but then again police aren`t telling us much of anything. Not that we`re aware of.
GRACE: You know, this is a pretty nice area. I would be surprised if this home didn`t have security cameras. Do we know?
SCHECHNER: That`s the problem. We don`t. Police are not indicating whether there are cameras or not.
GRACE: OK.
SCHECHNER: Hopefully there were. But we don`t know.
GRACE: So we don`t know.
Liz, let`s zoom in on that photo and see what we can find out. We may be able to determine the photo of the home. See what you can find out for me, Liz.
Also, what do we know? Does she have a boyfriend, Chuck Schechner?
SCHECHNER: She did. After her murder, I got on to her Facebook page and through that located her boyfriend and went to his Facebook page. A couple of days before the murder she had posted on his wall what appeared to be like a poster, and it simply said, you`re mine, you`re only mine. I don`t like sharing.
Kind of an odd message for just a couple of days before this incident.
GRACE: OK. Now, hold on. Chuck Schechner, I assume that you were once a teenager, correct?
SCHECHNER: Yes.
GRACE: OK. I don`t find that message odd at all. That sounds like some crazy teenage love stuff going on on Facebook, where you fight it out on Facebook. I don`t know that I see much to that.
What did you learn on the boyfriend?
SCHECHNER: No, the -- the timing may be odd. The message probably is not odd at the time. The timing is a little unusual.
GRACE: What did you learn on the boyfriend`s Facebook?
SCHECHNER: Pardon me?
GRACE: What did you find on the boyfriend`s Facebook?
SCHECHNER: Pretty much typical stuff. And once the murder occurred there were a lot of messages from his friends, offering condolences, and, you know, keep your head up, we`re here to help you. Just typical teenage messages on a Facebook Web site.
GRACE: What can you tell me, Chuck, about the Mexican restaurant where she worked?
SCHECHNER: It was in Bedford, which is where the high school is located. The murder happened in Fort Worth about eight miles where she lived.
GRACE: Right.
SCHECHNER: She lived in Euless, which is next to Bedford, two little suburban communities and she worked at a Mexican restaurant there saving up money.
GRACE: Hmm. Back to Robyn Walensky, anchor with "The Blaze."
Robyn, what more can you tell me? So we`re ruling out sex assault. I doubt she would be carrying much to be a robbery victim and in that neighborhood, no, you`re not going to get a lot of street crime. So where does that leave me, Robyn?
ROBYN WALENSKY, ANCHOR/REPORTER, THE BLAZE: It leaves you, Nancy, that her family says that she had friends, girlfriends, who live in this neighborhood. So was she out for the evening with some friends, walking in the park and then gets shot at random in the park and then the body is dumped at the home, or is she the specific target of the shooter and the guy who lives there has something to do with it or someone else sees her and shoots her and right there at point-blank range?
And the CSI, the criminal science investigation, of how much blood is at that scene and any fibers of who would have been there is going to tell the story, Nancy, and answer your questions.
GRACE: Back to you, Matt Zarrell, we can answer a couple of those questions right now, I think, because some of the ear witnesses were in the park. They say the gunshots came from the direction of the home. They are in the park. Wouldn`t they have seen a shooting that goes down in the park?
But I also want to find out along that vein how she got there. Was she on foot? Did she drive a car? Did she take a bus? How does she end up in this neighborhood? This wasn`t where she lived. Why was she there? How did she get there? And what do we know about those ear witnesses in the park?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Nancy, this is all good questions. We`re still trying to figure out how she got there because, as you said, it is 22 miles from where she went to school, where she worked, it is eight miles from her home. We`re still trying to work and see if she had a car. At 17 years old she`d likely have her license. So she would have a car. We don`t know if she had a car. She was living with her sister at this time.
Also, Nancy, we`re still trying to learn more about what they found in the home. The search warrant was conducted on the home and they tried to retrieve evidence from the home.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Odom, Peter Odom, Seema Iyer.
OK, Elle, weigh in.
ELEANOR ODOM, FELONY PROSECUTOR, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED: Well, Nancy, you know, this man doesn`t have to talk. I mean he has every right not to. But think about it, why won`t he? If he knows something, give it to the police?
GRACE: Why wouldn`t he?
E. ODOM: Give it to the cops. But if he knows nothing, give that to him, too. Talk and cooperate with the authorities. This happened outside his house.
Nancy, you and I both know if we discovered a dead body outside our backdoor, we`d be all over the -- you know, my god, let me tell you what I found. You know, I had nothing to do with this. It just seems odd.
GRACE: Yes, it does seem odd and there`s the conventional wisdom of where there`s smoke, there`s fire. But police are coming out and saying, Peter, he`s not a suspect, he`s not a person of interest. But I think we need to know how she got there. Why would she be in his backyard?
Let`s see a picture of that home again, Liz. I want to find out if there`s a fence around the backyard of it.
Go ahead, Peter.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, once he`s told the police everything he knows, he`s under absolutely no obligation to tell them anything else. You know, it`s clear to me that he`s told the police everything he knows. If he were a suspect or a person of interest they would say so now.
GRACE: That`s clear to you?
P. ODOM: Now it`s also --
GRACE: That`s clear to you sitting a thousand miles away? You --
P. ODOM: Well, it`s also --
GRACE: It`s clear? I think I`m seeing a gate, a fence all the way around the backyard. So what does she do, pow vault over it?
P. ODOM: It`s also possible, Nancy, that the police are trying to lull him into a false sense of security by telling him that he`s not a suspect.
GRACE: There you go, now you`re talking, Peter Odom.
OK, Seema Iyer. Weigh in.
SEEMA IYER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I`m a little surprised that you`re blowing off the boyfriend angle. Because of those Facebook messages --
GRACE: I didn`t blow it off.
IYER: It seemed like you were blowing it off, Nancy. Forgive me if I have mischaracterized your statement --
GRACE: Can I ask you what exactly it was that I said that blew off the boyfriend theory?
IYER: I felt from what you said that you thought that it was just innocent high school romance Facebook issues.
GRACE: I said what she wrote sounds like high school puppy love. That in no way is blowing off anything.
IYER: So, OK, great. We agree.
GRACE: So, once again --
IYER: We agree --
GRACE: Why don`t you try to -- quit thinking, get your mind off me, OK? And try to focus on these facts and maybe you can push this investigation forward, Seema.
IYER: I think the investigation --
GRACE: Go ahead. Strike three. Go ahead.
IYER: -- should look at the boyfriend. Should look at the boyfriend as well as the four girls that heard the multiple gunshots at approximate 5:00 a.m.
GRACE: Agree.
IYER: And were running from. Great.
GRACE: Agree.
IYER: Good talk.
GRACE: Agree. Agree. Out to you, Elma in Texas, what`s your question?
ELMA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: My question is, if there was a guy who was working across the fence on the air conditioner that heard a guy and a girl arguing, how come nobody asked any questions of the air conditioner guy?
GRACE: To Chuck Schechner, I believe what Elma is asking is, if there was an argument, did the air conditioner repairman hear it and was he questioned?
I think that`s what she`s saying.
SCHECHNER: That may be more speculation. We have not heard any evidence of an argument. But then again, as we`ve mentioned throughout, the police are just not telling us much of anything on this. That may very well be, presumably they interviewed the air conditioning people but have not told us the results of that interview.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) her face. I`ll beat her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) face in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say she assaulted, berated, and tormented her helpless, infant daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To do what she did to it is unreal.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say Kelly sent, quote, "Your daughter now has a broken arm. No food. I`m sending nice pictures. Ha-ha. I love abusing this kid."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But she has an illness. You know what I mean? She can`t -- she can`t help that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) her face. I`ll beat her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) face in. Call them. I don`t care. Your daughter`s face is done. Call the cops. Do me the favor, fat pig. Your daughter now has a broken arm and no food. I`ll let her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sit there and cry. I ain`t taking care of her. Call the cops. I`m sending nice pictures. Ha-ha. I love abusing this kid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, mommy, I`m happy to say he did just that. He called police. You can lay up on that rock in your bikini all you want to. This crazy twisted mother abuses and tortures her 10-month-old infant and she videotapes the whole thing to send to daddy as payback.
Straight out to Vinnie Penn with WELI. Vinnie, what happened?
VINNIE PENN, RADIO HOST, 960 WELI NEWS RADIO: There you have it right there. You were just reporting on it. Fifty to 55 texts sent one morning. This guy couldn`t even go shopping. He viewed them upon returning to his father`s home, all the texts, that is, along with seven video messages. There is an ace. And they were incredible videos where she`s tossing Tylenol at her 10-month-old and saying, go ahead and eat it, all sorts of other Mother`s Day-esques rants and raves.
GRACE: You know, to David Lohr, in addition to Vinnie Penn from WELI. David Lohr, senior crime reporter, Huffington Post.
David, not only that, she shook -- she knocked over the baby`s pack-and- play or crib and the baby falls out, falls on to the floor. She`s throwing things at the baby, she`s ridiculing the 10-month-old, and she goes on to torture and abuse the child, on and on and on, to send as payback to daddy.
But why, David Lohr?
DAVID LOHR, SENIOR CRIME REPORTER, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Well, the couple had been split up a couple of months, Nancy. And --
GRACE: Gee, I wonder why.
LOHR: There was a domestic violence since then. (INAUDIBLE) supposedly caused one of her lungs to collapse so there (INAUDIBLE). She wanted him to come over and take care of that child that morning. (INAUDIBLE) with her. He was at the store. And she began sending these messages where she had videotaped herself just physically and emotionally abusing this child.
I mean, earlier this week you referred to people doing things like this as roaches and she`s definitely a roach if she did those things to keep him.
GRACE: Kat McCullough, our producer also on the story, what more do we know?
KAT MCCULLOUGH, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, not only did she abuse the child, she bragged about it, sending these videos to the baby`s father saying, go ahead, call the cops.
GRACE: What more do we know about the text and the videos that she sent, Kat?
MCCULLOUGH: Well, she sent eight videos. In seven of them she is hurting the child. In addition, she sent all of these texts saying, I`ll break her face, I`ll beat her face in, call them, I don`t care. Your daughter`s face is done. Call the cops. Do we the favor, fat pig. Your daughter has a broken arm. No food. I love abusing this kid.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlassKids Foundation, do you know how many thousands of parents in this country alone want a little baby and then I`ll have to hear this story?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think something that needs to be mentioned, Nancy, is that this young woman has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, obsessive (INAUDIBLE) disorder and mood disorder. And if she is off of her medications, that could account for these kinds of actions.
Obviously the child needs to be taken from the mother and she needs to be stabilized and then determined whether she is fit to continue raising the child.
GRACE: Well, you know, Marc Klaas, I never thought I`d say it but I think you`d make an excellent defense attorney.
To Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, how do we unload the videos she sends daddy and all of the those text messages so they can be preserved for trial?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: You`re right. Marc would make a good defense attorney. This was a simple matter of downloading the videos to some forensic equipment and if I could play defense lawyer for a moment, my defense lawyer is going to be -- well, the forensic people are going to be able to tell you when these videos were taken. Was this a one-day thing where maybe she went off her medicine and had some very psychotic episode and it never happened again or --
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
LEVITAN: Yes?
GRACE: Do you have -- first of all, to you, Levitan, and you, Marc Klaas, what is your information that I don`t have that she is, quote, "off her meds"? Where are you getting that, Marc Klaas? Why do you believe she`s off her meds? And that she`s even on meds? Where are you getting this?
KLAAS: I`m getting that from the information that I`ve read on this case, that she does have these mental disorders and that she`s not been taking her medication.
GRACE: Yes, that she says she`s bipolar. She says she`s bipolar. That`s what she says after her arrest. And I didn`t see anything, nor did any of our sources state that we think she`s off meds. I don`t even know for sure if she`s on meds. I know she says she`s bipolar after her arrest but where are you getting information that she`s not taking medication that she`s supposed to?
KLAAS: Well, first of all, her mother is the one that told police that she`s been diagnosed with these disorders. It was her mother that told them, not the girl herself.
GRACE: Right. And you`re getting information that she`s off medication from where?
KLAAS: From files that I`ve read online, Nancy. I Googled her case. I can`t cite them to you. I don`t have them in front of me.
GRACE: Well, all I know is that -- is that she`s telling her grandmother that she was diagnosed as bipolar. That`s odd because cops say she`s obsessive deviant. You know what? I`m going to bring in a shrink on this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. She threatens to break the face, full of curse words, says it all on video to her boyfriend, the baby`s father, for payback.
Back to you, Kat, let`s find out what we know, let`s follow up on what Marc Klaas is saying. He is right. The grandmother says, the -- the suspect, the mother, says she`s bipolar. Police say she is oppositional defiant disorder. What information do you have, Kat, quickly?
MCCULLOUGH: That`s correct. The grandmother is saying that she has not taken medication in over three years. And that she, you know, is bipolar. OCD, has mood disorders, can be confrontational and violent. But what we know of these videos, what she does in them is just so horrific, that she is throwing Tylenol at the child saying --
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall -- Bethany, we need a shrink. Help me.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Probably, her mother is desperate to protect her and have her not have charges brought against her. But I think she really wants to kill the child. That`s what she is working her way up to and getting more emboldened to do it and charge is characterlogically driven. That is her basic personality. She does not want that child and she wants to use the child to seek revenge against the child`s father.
Is she bipolar? Maybe, maybe not, that would put gasoline on the fire, if she was. It would give her the energy and the obsessional quality that would then fuel the murderous and the obsessional intent, but that would not make her want to murder a child.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Back to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Bethany, she has been off meds, according to her family, for three years. What am I supposed to read into that and how is an allegation, a claim that she is bipolar, some sort of defense in this case? That`s not insanity. She is abusing and torturing her 10-month-old infant, clearly with the intent to -- she videotapes it and sends it to the father, as payback.
MARSHALL: Well, it`s not a defense because she clearly knows right from wrong but the timing of the medication makes sense to me because it`s likely that she went off her bipolar medications when she got pregnant. Remember the child was 10 months old, so let`s say she went off her medications in anticipation of getting pregnant. The mania built during the pregnancy and now that feeling of ragefulness and that excessive energy one has with bipolar disorder is so appealing to her that she refuses to go back on the medication.
When someone is manic, they`re malicious, they lack insight into the nature of the disorder. They have excessive energy and they are obsessional and grandiose. Add to that that the father left approximately two months ago and she wants to get back at him. She has not bonded with the child and she says you stabbed me in the heart, I`m going to stab you in the heart by abusing the baby.
GRACE: All I know is that I doubt it mattered to that 10-month-old baby girl whether her mom was on or off her meds while her mom was abusing her and torturing her all on video so she could send it to the daddy.
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant First Class Jason Fabrizi, 29, Seffner, Florida, fourth tour. Also served Iraq, three Bronze Stars, two Purple Hearts, two Army Commendation Medals, loved wrestling, sports, coaching little league, taking his sons fishing. Leaves behind parents, Timothy and Mary. Brothers, Jason and Jared. Sister, Erica. Widow, Christine. Children, Lane, Reagan, Jason and Tyler.
Jason Fabrizi, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially for being with us and happy birthday to our superstar, Natisha. She loves not only crime and justice, but working out, singing, and dancing, you have seen her many times on our air.
Happy birthday, love.
Everybody, Dr. Drew coming up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then good night, friend.
END
