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Missing Kids; Living with a Mental Illness

Aired July 19, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Missing in America. Right now, the FBI is searching for two young girls in Iowa who mysteriously vanished this week, yet another in what seems to be a growing epidemic of child abduction. I`m speaking to parents of kidnapped kids and going inside the mind of predators so you can keep your kids safe.

And later, it`s been called the Kennedy curse -- the family plagued by mental illness and addiction. Now, former Congressman Patrick Kennedy is speaking out about his recovery and how he can help you.

Call us now with your questions and comments, 855-DRDREW5.

Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Welcome to our program. Now, listen to this every year, more than 800,000 children go missing nationwide this according to Justice Department stats. That is almost 2200 kids a day, boom, gone, vanished.

Now, in Iowa, the FBI has joined the search for two cousins who are still missing after nearly a week. There they are, looking around the lake where they were last seen.

Now, take a look at this surveillance tape, a video caught a Philadelphia man allegedly trying to abduct a 10-year-old girl in broad daylight. This is stunning. Stunning.

Now, you, like I, have been watching these stories unfold here on HLN, been watching Nancy and Jane, do a great job of covering these stories, but I want to get into this even further tonight.

See this -- yes, here it comes again. Show this video. This is unbelievable. Somebody just coming and picking up -- just phenomenal.

So let`s get into this tonight. Who is that guy? Who are guys like that? Why are these kids going missing?

And let`s talk to some of the parents who have had to suffer and live through this experience? What can we do to protect our kids?

Joining me: Colleen Nick, whose daughter has been missing for 17 years. And HLN`s Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Jane, can you give us a brief update on the Iowa case?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, HLN`S JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, well, this is developments fast and furious, dr. Drew. As of a couple of hours ago, there was a meeting between the families of the two missing girls and police. Now, that`s pretty extraordinary because we have been hearing about this rift between police and the families with the parents of the oldest girl, Lyric, who is 10, saying, hey, you`re pointing the finger at us, particularly the father, Dan, and say stop doing that.

Now, one of the reasons that that`s happening is because Dan has a very extensive criminal history and he is facing charges recently, possession of methamphetamine with intent to deliverer and conspiracy to manufacture methamphetamine. And the mom also has drug history as well and served time in prison, vis-a-vis methamphetamine and recently got out of a halfway house just two months ago.

Nevertheless, we must proceed with caution. These parents are not suspects. They have not been accused of anything. And they are suffering right now. So, you can imagine the horror that they are going through, of losing their child. And then on top of it, perhaps having the most embarrassing details of their lives revealed to the entire world.

And through a family member, they say they are sick of it. They are sick of having the finger pointed at them. They feel that the police have been distracted by this criminal history and that they should be focusing on other things. They also don`t think that the children are in the lake either.

Now, there are 241 registered sex offenders in the surrounding area. They feel the police should focus on them. They feel that this is a stranger abduction and they are doing everything they can. They have not had -- police haven`t had to get search warrants to go and get computers and all sorts of equipment. The family is saying come on in, take whatever you need.

So they are cooperating and despite this wrinkle, you might say you of their past.

PINSKY: And, Jane, I admit, I have been watching too many episodes of "Breaking Bad," it is easy to jump into those sorts of allegation.

But let me take a different tack, you day say the mom is recently out of a halfway house. Maybe they are recently sober. People when they are recently sober are extremely fragile. Could you imagine going through this when you are new in sobriety? Even when you are just a year in?

This is a shattering experience. We really should be saying our prayers for these parents as well as the kids.

Now, I want to bring in another mom, Colleen -- Colleen, whose daughter 17 years ago vanished.

Colleen, can you tell us your story?

COLLEEN NICK, DAUGHTER MORGAN DISAPPEARED 17 YEARS AGO: Seventeen years ago, we were at a little league baseball field, my 6-year-old daughter went to catch fire flies with her two friends and they -- she sat down to take sand out of her shoes. They walked away and left her and while she was separated from them, she was taken.

PINSKY: And is this something like that footage we saw just a few minutes ago, with somebody actually walking up to her and just physically abducting her, do you think?

NICK: You know, we have actually a composite sketch. The two children who had played with Morgan, had seen an individual in the parking area of the ball field throughout the night that had made them very uncomfortable, very uneasy and they encountered him again while they were playing with Morgan. And of course, they did not see him take her but our strongest belief is that someone did abduct her from the ball field and drive away with her that night.

PINSKY: Colleen, how do parents get through this? Again, we started -- you know, cut to you after the thinking about what these parents must be going through in Iowa. What can you tell us?

NICK: You know, watching the family in Iowa, one of the things that I think about is just what a brutal process this is on the family. This is your worst nightmare come to life. It is terrifying. There`s no end. There are no answers.

You are clinging to every shred of hope you can get. And law enforcement has to do a parallel search. They have to look at the family and they have to look at everything else.

But that is a brutal process on families. When you want nothing more than for law enforcement to do everything they can to find your child. And yet they are still focusing some of that early investigation on the family. It`s very, very difficult.

PINSKY: It`s got to be --

NICK: It`s difficult --

PINSKY: It`s got to be like the nightmares that every parent has where they can`t find their child or something`s wrong with their child. You are actually living that nightmare.

NICK: It is a nightmare that we are living n you know, the thing that you have to do is to get out of bed every day and find hope. Until someone can prove to you that your child isn`t coming home, our job, as parents is to fight to do everything we can. That means cooperating with the police when it`s uncomfortable, inviting them into your life, sharing every nook and cranny as unfortunately this poor family has had to do with the media, but doing whatever it takes to find your child and not giving up hope.

PINSKY: And, Colleen, you still have hope. We just saw an age- progressed picture of your daughter, how she might look now. You still, to this day her room is still intact, I heard?

NICK: It is. We still have hope that Morgan will come home. We fight for her every day and until someone can prove to me that Morgan`s not coming home, then I`m going to keep fighting for her.

Now, this is my daughter. This is a little girl who loves cats and apples and thinks that bubble gum is a food group. She wants to be a circus performer and a doctor when she grows up.

And my job is to find her and bring her back to our family.

PINSKY: But there`s -- we are looking a at picture of her as she might appear now. She should -- would be grown up, is that right?

NICK: She is grown up. Morgan is currently 23 years old.

PINSKY: OK. I want to take a very quick call before we go to break.

Marcia in Washington -- you had a comment, Marcia?

MARCIA, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Yes, hi, Dr. Drew. I have got (INAUDIBLE) one for the oldest kids, they didn`t want money or sex offenders, two for the babies, I`m not saying I`d do it but I can really relate to these women who are desperate to be mothers. Not thinking about what the effects of the real mother would be.

PINSKY: So this is your theory about who is contributing to these vanishing children? I`ll tell you what, I hate to say it but I think it is mostly men. I know you want to blame some women who want a baby real bad. But the reality is, we`re going to get into that, we`re going to look at it, examine it, and figure this out. Thank you.

Thank you -- I`m sorry, it`s -- no, it`s Colleen. Colleen, thank you very much for sharing that story. I do appreciate it.

Now, next up, JonBenet Ramsey, Jaycee Dugard, Elizabeth Smart, Polly Klaas -- all young girls who made national news when they were kidnapped. Now is the names that you never heard that are making some people angry.

Stay tuned.


PINSKY: Caylee Anthony, JonBenet Ramsey and now, we have this week, little girls who vanished. I`m watching these stories with you. And I`ll tell you what? We want to get into this, try to figure out who these people are and why they do it, and what might be happening here and how to keep our kids safe.

Now the list of kids I just gave you had one thing in common, they are all white. They are all Caucasians. The question -- one of the questions I want to address here tonight on this show is the media more likely to cover a missing child if the victim is white?

Call us with your opinion, 855-DRDREW5.

My next guest: Derrica Wilson. She is the founder and president of Black and Missing Children Foundation, I believe. She says the attention is focused almost exclusively on missing children who fit a certain profile -- blonde, blue-eyed, female.

Also joining me, Marc Klaas, whose daughter I think everyone is aware of, Polly Klaas, was kidnapped from her home at knife point, age 12, killed in 1993. And that is a story that made world headlines.

OK. First, before I get into that story, I want to talk to Derrica.

Derrica, tell me what you think with the media coverage of missing children? And why -- why it is so one sided?

DERICCA WILSON, BLACK AND MISSING FOUNDATION: Well, I think what people need to understand, it is not a black issue or white issue. It is an American issue. And less is more. Less of one particular race and the more of the rest of the children that are missing, the greater the chances of a reunion.

You know, some of the executives that we have encountered state that children of color is not sensational enough for television and that the society really don`t want to hear about these stories.

PINSKY: Jane, you have been covering these stories like crazy. Do you find -- first of all, I want to ask, do you think what Derrica is talking about is true? And then do you have any instinct on who these perpetrators are?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, yes. I think she has a very valid point and it`s a national shame really that certain segments of society are neglected in terms of the focus. And it is something we really need to change.

I think that this has to be an opportunity to get proactive. We live in a high-tech society. We are in 21st century. We`ve all got smartphones. The surveillance cameras -- that technology is available and it is really underutilized.

If we had cameras on major freeways at a rest stops, weigh stations, you see how we solve crimes when we do have those surveillance cameras. I think we need to have more of them.

PINSKY: I`m going interrupt you. I want you to play the video we saw a few minutes ago of the guy coming in trying to abduct that young girl, a 10-year-old girl. I would agree with you, Jane, and say this while we look at this footage, which is that people have a paranoia that somehow we are going to be too observed, it is going to be big brother, it`s going to be intrude nothing our privacies.

But I agree with you completely, Jane, the opportunity to do so much good is there. We`ll learn how to manage these things so they don`t intrude upon our privacies but they -- this footage would never have been captured if somebody -- and who knows -- you know, what might have happened there.

Who was that guy? I want to se it again. Look at that way now. Who is that guy? Who is the guy that comes in there and does this?

Jane, do you have any sense of who these perpetrators are?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, unfortunately, I think they are often people who have been victimized themselves. And the sad thing is, Dr. Drew, that this is sort of a self-perpetuating phenomenon that can be passed down from generation to generation.

PINSKY: But, Jane, I`m going to interrupt you again. You are right. I have treated a lot of people that have been victimized themselves and did some victimizing, they didn`t go and kidnap and kill kids. That`s a population I don`t understand.

And I want to go out to Mr. Klaas. I want to take Marc Klaas on and see if he can help me with this and help us all with this.

Have you learned through the years of advocating on behalf of victims who these guys are and I say "guys" because they are probably guys, aren`t they?

MARC KLAAS, DAUGHTER POLLY WAS KIDNAPPED, MURDERED: Yes, the vast majority of them, certainly not all of them, but the vast majority of them are guys.

I can tell you they don`t wake up some morning and decide that they are going to go out and kidnap and murder a child. This is something that builds up over time. Maybe with kiddie porn, they get more aggressive in their feelings, more aggressive in their attitudes and more aggressive in their actions to the point where they finally do take a child, rape that child.

It`s usually about sex and sometimes it is about murder as well. They take them down.

What I can tell you, Dr. Drew, is that state hospitals have been studying this phenomenon for decades and they have certainly not been able to come up with a cure or even way to effectively deal with these characters.

PINSKY: And I wonder, Marc, we heard about that guy that killed -- allegedly killed the kid that was on -- the first kid on the milk carton and he sort of went back into the society. He sort of faded back into the wood work. Are we living amongst some of these guys? Is that what -- after they horrify themselves in some -- just unthinkable way, they sort of fade back into life?

KLAAS: Oh, I think there`s no question about that and I think a very good example is another current case. It`s a young girl named Mickey Shunick in Lafayette, Louisiana. They arrested a guy for kidnapping and murdering her, although they haven`t found her body and they have just connected him with a 15-year-old -- I`m sorry, yes, a 15-year-old crime from 1999.

So, they are finding a lot of other crimes in the midst of all that. So yes, absolutely.

Once these guys seem to get a taste of this, they have a hard time going back and they will commit again and again and again. They become serial killers with a preference for young, generally young girls.

PINSKY: I think I`m going to throw up.

Let`s go to Pamela in Pennsylvania -- Pamela.

PAMELA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Drew. How are you, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: I`m good, Pamela. Thanks for calling in.

PAMELA: Oh, no problem. But I notice one thing that I found to be quite disturbing. When you talk about the reporting of minority children being kidnapped or taken as opposed to white children, what`s -- it`s a proven fact that`s very disproportionate amongst them and it has a lot to do with ethnicity as well as physical attractiveness. And I think that`s media problem that needs to be addressed because everybody, woman, black, white, blue, Mexican, everyone`s life is precious.

PINSKY: Pamela that is -- yes.

PAMELA: So, I --

PINSKY: Pamela, that is the point. These are about children and children`s life and on what planet are we going to say that one color is what we should be more concerned with than another? That is -- unfortunately this whole conversation is giving me nausea today.

More of your calls about these missing kids and these perpetrators after the break -- 855-DRDREW5. Call in and we`ll be right back.


PINSKY: We are taking your calls live at 855-DRDREW5.

And, listen, I want to put a call out to anyone who has been perhaps nearly abducted or abducted or gone through something like this and survived it. Maybe you are an adult now. I will take that call all way to the end of the program. So, please do give us a call.

Jane, I know you go to great efforts to balance these stories when talking about tonight, the kids that get all the attention, look a certain way. So tonight, you and I represent HLN and I`m going to get Derrica back in here and we are going to talk about a couple of case.

Derrica, I understand you have two cases you want to report on this evening?

WILSON: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. Thank you.

So, we have Phoenix Coldon, who is missing out of St. Louis, Missouri. She has been missing since December of 2011, the week before Christmas. And this young lady went missing and her car was found abandoned running, but law enforcement had failed the families when they did not enter that vehicle into NCIC to even state that this child was missing and that her car was associated with her.

And then we have the missing 2-year-old toddler, Amir Jennings. He is missing out of South Carolina -- Columbia, South Carolina, and he`s been missing since November 29th. Here`s a 2-year-old child that`s missing and he is not even getting any local or national attention until you brought him to the forefront.

So, we really appreciate your efforts in helping us and creating this platform, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: And, Derrica, is there a Web site people can contact if they have any information?

WILSON: Absolutely. It is And we have an anonymous tip line, so we want people to call in or submit those tips and do not have to feel like their identities are compromised.

PINSKY: OK. We got the Web site up now. I hope we can put another chyron out there, make sure understand how to get that Web site. There it is, OK.

All right. Let`s take a call. Terry in Pennsylvania -- Terry.

TERRY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, I wanted to talk about question the aunt that`s talking about the two little girls that are missing, how she said the bloodhounds were going off into the woods. The aunt said there was acres of woods.

Why haven`t they gone out there and looked for them? Maybe they are lost. Maybe they have been in the woods. Maybe they are dehydrated.

PINSKY: Terry, Jane has interviewed the aunt. So, let`s throw that out to Jane. Jane, what do you say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they have. You are taking a look at footage of thousands of people, well over 1,000 people, that combed that area and they are fanned out very systematically. So, they have been searching the area.

Unfortunately, this lake is near an interstate. This is a very small town of only 5,000 people. But Cedar Rapids is a short drive away, about 40 miles. It`s much big. And then you have Des Moines.

So, when you`re talking about a modern society where people have vehicles, once they get the child in the car, if that, in fact, happened, they could be anywhere. And that`s why I come back to surveillance video. If you have video on that interstate, we would probably know right now what had happened.

PINSKY: And I said we will talk to you about how to keep your kids safe. Teach them how not to ever get in a vehicle with anybody they don`t know well. Once they are in the vehicle, things go bad.

Not -- no one gets in the vehicle there are plenty of self-defense classes out there, particularly for young girls, encourages kids to get involved with, so they can fight somebody off. Never give up. Never get in a vehicle. That`s good advice for adults as well.

Jane, thank you for keeping us abreast of this story.

Derrica, thank you also for presenting the two new cases. I hope you get some tips off of that.

And, Marc, I just say thank you. Thank you so much for keeping us informed about this real serious problem. And your insight into that is frankly just terrific.

All right. Next up, former Congressman Patrick Kennedy, I`m fan of his and he speaks out about his battle with addiction and what he is doing to help millions of Americans who suffer from mental illness.


PINSKY: Straight ahead, so the called "Kennedy curse" -- the family history of mental illness and addiction. Former Congressman Patrick Kennedy is with us live talking about his recovery and how he can help you. Call us, 855-DRDREW5.

And later, what does George Zimmerman`s interview mean for his case? O.J. Simpson prosecutor Marcia Clark joins me with that answer.

One way or another, mental health issues affect each and every one of you. You know why I know that each of us have a brain. Mental health -- I don`t mean you are smart, I mean you have an organ called a brain and the brain doesn`t always work perfectly.

One way or another, millions of Americans are affected by mental health issues, and we tend to forget that they are just brain issues, brain disorders. We understand there`s a heart problems, but when it becomes to the brain, somehow, we stigmatize it.

And many people go untreated, because they are afraid, they`re afraid of that stigmatization. Former congressman, Patrick Kennedy, is working to put an end to that. He`s here and taking your calls, 855-DrDrew5.

Now, Patrick, a couple of things, let`s review your history. I remember your story very vividly and how courageously your recovery played out. Can you just tell my audience a little bit about that?

PATRICK KENNEDY, WORKING TO ELIMINATE MENTAL ILLNESS STIGMA: Well, Dr. Drew, I have two chronic illnesses. I have chronic asthma and I have a chronic addiction. And unfortunately, as you point out at the beginning of your show, we still differentiate in this country between these illnesses, even though they`re physical illnesses, both of them are, because one illnesses involves the brain.

And the symptoms of the brain illness is behavior. And of course, behavior, when it is strange or out of character is bizarre, crazy, nuts, psycho, all the words that we use in a pejorative way to describe a physical symptom when your brain isn`t working properly. In my own situation, I had -- I`m a run-of-the-mill addict and alcoholic.

The compulsion to self-medicate no matter what the drug or alcohol was something that was a physical allergy, much like other allergies. When I consumed drugs and alcohol, I couldn`t stop, and hence, I became an addict. And of course, in recovery, you understand these things as physical illnesses, also obsessive illnesses, which are psychological and of course, spiritual elements to this as well.

So, what we`re talking about is a very complex illness. And Dr. Drew, I think one of the reasons why people feel so, you know, fearful of these illnesses is because they are so complex, and because they involve who we are as people, the very essence of who we are as individuals, they`re very frightening because there is nothing more sensitive than how we are reflected by our friends and family members, and I think all of these things lead to stigma.


KENNEDY: Stigma is why people don`t avail themselves of recovery. Recovery works. I`m one of those 20-plus millions of Americans in long- term recovery. But I have to deal with my illness one day at a time, just like I have to deal with my asthma. I have to stay out of situations that are going to provoke my asthma or my addiction.

I need kind of chronic care, which means that I need -- often take medications to keep me on track and not in an emergency room and not in a crisis situation. And as you know, Dr. Drew, when I was in Congress, I worked to make sure that these illnesses are treated like all other physical illnesses and that they seek the same reimbursement as other physical illnesses.

PINSKY: And you`ve done a great job of helping push through what we call mental health party. Unfortunately, it never seems to really happen. It`s about making that a reality. I`m as passionate about that as you are. I want to talk to Cynthia in Nevada. She has questions for us here. Cynthia, go ahead.

CYNTHIA, NEVADA: Hi, Dr. Drew. My question goes to, why people with depression or mental illness are shunned? They don`t get support or compassion versus any other disease. And in my own life, my children seem to think I could be fixed. I need to be fixed like I`m a toy, and so, they won`t support me at all.

PINSKY: Yes, Cynthia. I`m sorry. And Patrick was just talking about this, how it affects us as a person, and we don`t like to think that there are (ph) disorders that can affect us. That our brain isn`t a perfect instrument, that things can change our moods or motivational priorities. Patrick, what would you say to Cynthia?

KENNEDY: Well, Cynthia, as you relate so well, we add insult to injury. It`s not enough just to be suffering from a mental illness. Now, you have to face the stigma and ostracization that comes with suffering from a mental illness.

So, it really is -- stigma is bad, because as you know, it further isolates people because they feel so ashamed of their illness, then they retreat from getting the care they need. And they also retreat from their loved one and friends.

And of course, that`s when their illness can get even worse. And the pathology of their illness becomes engrained.

PINSKY: Yes. You need the people in your life to understand with this. I think it`s -- I`m going to use a strong word, it`s ignorance. And people don`t understand what this is, and we need to raise sophistication and understanding so there isn`t this fear and the fear it`s built on ignorance.

KENNEDY: That`s right.

PINSKY: Patrick, I`m a big fan of yours. I want to thank you so much for sharing your story and for clarifying your position. Again, you have a foundation, It`s the number one, mind, four, number four,, working to eliminate the stigma of mental illness, which I applaud you for. Next up --

KENNEDY: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Thank you, Patrick. George Zimmerman`s shocking interview about the night he shot Trayvon Martin. I want to hear from you about that. I`ll be joined by Marcia Clark. Our number here, 855-DrDrew5.


PINSKY: George Zimmerman says it was God`s plan that brought he and Trayvon Martin together the night of their deadly confrontation. I`m not so sure. I think it was Mr. Zimmerman following Trayvon and making Trayvon suspicious that led to all the trouble, but Zimmerman admits to shooting Trayvon in the chest.

He says it was self-defense. He`s out on bail, charged with second- degree murder. Last night, he spoke to Fox News` Sean Hannity. Take a look.


GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAYVON MARTIN: I felt he was suspicious because it was raining. He was in between houses, cutting in between houses, and he was walking very leisurely for the weather. He started bashing my head into the concrete sidewalk. As soon as he broke my nose, I started yelling for help.

So, I was disoriented, and he started slamming my head into concrete. He said you`re going to die tonight (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and took one hand off of my mouth and I felt it going down my chest towards my belt and my holster and that`s when I didn`t have any more time.


PINSKY: Joining us, Marcia Clark, former prosecutor and author of "Guilt By Degrees." Marcia, do you think it was a good idea for Zimmerman`s attorney to allow him to address the media?

MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I`m of two minds about that, Drew. You know, I`m not sure. Usually, I would say categorically no. It`s always a bad idea. Don`t let your client be out there. Don`t let the prosecution get preview of what he`s going to say so they can be ready to punch holes in it. In this case, though, it may be the right thing for him to do, because there`s so much out there that`s bad for him, so much anti- Zimmerman opinion, theory, evidence that he wants to start back spinning it.

He needs to backspin. He needs to start creating a doubt in people`s minds. And so, having Zimmerman out there saying there`s another side, here`s my side to erode some of that certainty is probably a good move.

PINSKY: Do you think that by going out there and eroding some of that opinion, he can affect jury selection or who might be in that jury pool?

CLARK: Oh, that`s the idea.


CLARK: Generally. Oh, yes. That`s definitely what they`re doing. They`re trying to taint the jury pool or they would say balance the jury pool.

PINSKY: Taint or balance. That`s how we look at it. Now, after the interview, Zimmerman re-launched his website. It`s called asking supporters to donate to his defense fund. Take a look at this.


ZIMMERMAN: However, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you, the masses. This is our website. It`s not my website. It is our website where you can personally communicate with me, and I hope to be your website to provide the facts.


PINSKY: Again, do you think his attorney was endorsing, allowing, embracing this idea?

CLARK: That, I`m not sure of. I don`t know what compliant client he is or not. And that has a lot to do with it. He`s shown himself to kind of be a little bit of a loose cannon in the beginning of this case. So, he may have gone off on his own to do this one. I don`t know. I don`t recommend what he`s doing here.

And if he`s trying to actually interact spontaneously with people who call in and ask for his side of the story, that`s an even worse idea. Horrible idea.

PINSKY: But he does need money for his defense fund.

CLARK: Yes, I`m sure.

PINSKY: Let`s take a quick call. Let`s talk to Randi in Florida -- Randi.

RANDI, FLORIDA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, Marcia.

PINSKY: Randi.

RANDI: I guess, you know, after the watching the interview last night, I was really very confused and I still don`t understand why Zimmerman did not identify himself with his name and, of course, his role as neighborhood watch.

And then, I was also confused as to, you know, he just followed him, you know, was what we heard originally, and then last time, he says, well, I just went the same direction which, you know, of course, means the same thing.

PINSKY: So, Randi, you kind of feel like he was trying to engage as opposed to saying, hey, get out of here, I`m the neighborhood watch that sort of thing, right?

RANDI: Right. Exactly.

PINSKY: That`s an interesting thought, isn`t it?

CLARK: It really is.


CLARK: And it`s a good point.

PINSKY: Yes. I think that`s -- because that`s the core here, isn`t it?


PINSKY: It`s like he made some choices that led to a horrible outcome.


PINSKY: Horrible.

CLARK: Horrible.

PINSKY: What people are really scrutinizing is what was in his head at the beginning?

CLARK: What was in his head? What was motivating him? Why did he follow? How long did he follow? And then, ultimately, the credibility call of all time, which is, do we believe the story he`s telling us now or not? And at the end of the day, Drew, it`s going to come down to this. You`re going to have many statements from him.

You`re going to have the original statements to the police, you`re going to have the subsequent statements to the police, then you`re going to have these statements, you`re going to have a million statements. To the extent they`re inconsistent, that hurts him. The other thing you`re going to have is physical evidence.

What on Trayvon martin`s body tells us that we should or should not believe George Zimmerman? He says Trayvon hit him, punched him in the head repeatedly. You know, that the head is a bony, bony structure. If you`re punching it with your fist, you`re going to have abrasions on your knuckles. You`re going to have bruises

There should be some blood on him if he broke his nose, and he`s continuing to contact him. We`ll see what the autopsy and the forensics say. That`s going to be critical, too.

PINSKY: Well, you know, one thing I did take -- I took away from this, this is all so damn sad. This is just sad for everybody. Khalid in North Carolina -- Khalid. Khalid? Maybe mispronouncing that name? All right. Meryl in California -- Meryl.


PINSKY: Go right ahead.

MERYL: Yes. My question is, why would a -- Zimmerman`s attorney allow his client to use the word "God`s plan" in any kind of a phrase in defense of his actions? That was the nail in his coffin because now the prosecuting attorney could zone in that the thing was planned.

I think he should have said if he used the word "God`s plan" should have been it was God`s plan to -- for him to survive the beating, but not to use it in his defense --

PINSKY: Or God`s will. God`s will.

CLARK: Well, that`s you why don`t let your client do these interviews because you can only control so much.

PINSKY: Right.

CLARK: Right? I mean, I understand why he wanted to do it. I can even see this unique case, maybe it was a good idea, but this is why you don`t do it.

PINSKY: Marcia, thank you so much. Now, I`m going to switch back to talking again about missing children. I know I was going to bug you, give me some more insight into who these guys are, and you said that they are -- they`re different. They`re different --

CLARK: They`re different. Oh, yes.

PINSKY: -- child abusers I`m familiar with. We`re going to take your calls, 855-DrDrew5, 855-3737395. And other topics, we get off into that as well, but I got my craw into this abduction thing. It`s making me upset.


PINSKY: I`m back with Marcia Clark. I asked her to stay for a couple of reasons. One is, we`re parents. And I don`t think people think about expert Marcia Clark as a mom. And are you as troubled by the -- what seems to be rising or, at least, certainly rising awareness about child abduction? Is it something that we should be as upset about as we seem to be now?

CLARK: At least as much if not more so.


CLARK: It`s horrifying.

PINSKY: OK. And you started telling me something during the break, and I`m going to call you -- I want you to tell me about this, because I`m trying to make sense of this tonight. You`re not an expert. I won`t hold to you expert opinion on this.

CLARK: Thank you. Thank you.

PINSKY: But you come across these guys. I don`t. I`ve treated people who`ve been pedophiles, done horrible things, but they don`t kill, they don`t kidnap. Who are those guys?

CLARK: Those guys have always struck me as slightly -- not slightly, but a world of difference. The pedophile that we know of that grooms the kids and gets close to them is somebody who can persuade himself, and I say him because it usually is a him.

PINSKY: It`s usually a man.

CLARK: -- is in denial about the kid wants it, too. They`re in a relationship.

PINSKY: Right. So, either have empathic failure where they don`t understand their affect on the kid or they believe the kid somehow always responding to them, wants to be participating in this.

CLARK: Yes, and they`re giving love.

PINSKY: Yes. It`s a very sick, delusional thing they put themselves in.

CLARK: Right.

PINSKY: But most of the guys do that kind of thing.


PINSKY: These guys that kill must experience some sort of horror when they do it or --

CLARK: The abductor killers, to me, are the ones that actually know what they`re doing is wrong. They act compulsively, because they have a driving need to commit this, but they are careful not to do it among -- in their own family. They`re not molesting their own kids or their step-kids.

They`re out there snatching somebody else and killing them to keep them quiet. They`re more aware in my mind. They always felt more aware of what they were doing was wrong.

PINSKY: Do they have horror? Are they just -- are they living in guilt and terror? Are they just compartmentalizing?

CLARK: You know, I don`t know that I can generalize based on what I`ve seen. You know, some probably compartmentalize, some justify, some are, you know, guilt-ridden. But I think all of those, that ilk, that kidnapper/killer kind of molester is a whole different animal than the pedophile who grooms like Sandusky.

PINSKY: OK. Let`s talk to Terry in California. I guess, Terry, you were almost abduct -- oh, Terry hang up. I heard there was a call came in live, almost been abducted herself. Susan in Missouri, very quickly -- Susan.

SUSAN, MISSOURI: Yes, this is Susan.

PINSKY: Hi, Susan.

SUSAN: When I was 15, I had a stalker, someone who was writing letters to me, very disturbing things telling me about, you know, how he had had a vasectomy and things.

PINSKY: Wonderful.

SUSAN: I think part of the problem is that, initially, when these guys start, law enforcement doesn`t take them seriously enough.

PINSKY: OK. Let`s ask that question. Are they taking it seriously now?

CLARK: Well, they are now. I`m sure that when Susan had her experience, they weren`t as much. But everybody is so much more aware that , at least in my experience, law enforcement gets all over it very quickly now.

PINSKY: OK. Marcia, thank you for staying with me.

CLARK: My pleasure. PINSKY: This is very interesting, because I don`t get to see the criminals. You know, it`s a different -- as you say, it`s a different guy. And I`ve been feeling like vomiting all night as a result of these stories. It`s very, very distressing (ph).

CLARK: Yes. They`re horrifying.

PINSKY: All right. More calls after the break.


PINSKY: OK. Before I go back to the phones, I promise at the beginning of the show we would talk a little bit about how to keep kids safe. Marcia, before she was leaving, said you know when I was talking to my kids when they were young. Don`t yell help, which only makes you feel uncomfortable, yell fire.

People seem to hear that better. They don`t think kids might be playing. If they hear help, they`re less likely to listen than you say fire. Don`t stay in a full building, just saying, but it`s interesting information. Let`s go to the phones. Nakeesha in Michigan -- Nakeesha.


PINSKY: Hi, there.

NAKEESHA: Yes. I would like to know what is it that I can do to get over losing my virginity? I am 37 years old. And I lost my virginity at 15 and I still, I want it back. I can`t get over it. I don`t know --

PINSKY: You know, was it a forceful situation, was it sort of a rape?

NAKEESHA: No, it wasn`t. No, it wasn`t forceful. We were both raised in the church, very religious.

PINSKY: Right. And do you feel like this is a spiritual thing, like you should use your clergy to help heal some of this or is this an emotional/medical kind of a problem?

NAKEESHA: I think it`s more emotional. I haven`t confided anyone in the church that I had sex at 15.

PINSKY: OK. And how old is the gentleman at that point?

NAKEESHA: He was almost 17.

PINSKY: OK. So, Nakeesha, here`s a deal. It`s a very common feeling for young women to have, yet to meet a woman who wish she`d done it sooner. You know what I`m saying? And so, to harbor this guilt and ambivalence, there`s something more there.

So, what I would urge you to do is to sit with the therapist and really dig into this -- a female therapist, preferably, that you, as a woman, can share these feelings in a deep and very intimate way to kind of work on through them, because it`s something you`ve been carrying around your adult life and you need to find a way to let go of that.

It`s something that happened. It has deep meaning for you. But it needs to be relinquished. Kathy in Florida -- Kathy.


PINSKY: Kathy. What`s up, Kathy?

KATHY: Yes. I just wanted to tell you my story, which is quite a long time ago, back in 1973 or 1974, in Jacksonville, Florida. A man did try to pull up beside me and abduct me.

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. So, you`re one of these survivors. I got one. How did you get away from it? What does it like? How did it affect you? Who was he?

KATHY: It still affects me to this day, mostly because I found out years later that there were five other girls that went missing during that period of time.

PINSKY: Wow! Oh, my goodness.

KATHY: And I feel guilty because I never told anybody.

PINSKY: Oh, Kath. Don`t do that to yourself. I mean, this guy was a criminal on a rampage. Thank God -- just thank God you weren`t one of the people that was unfortunate and taken by him. Is there anything anybody can learn or take away from that experience?

KATHY: I remember distinctively getting intuition that this man meant to do me harm.

PINSKY: So, you had the feeling. You knew it. You knew it right away.

KATHY: I knew it. The way that he was yelling at me and trying to knock me off my bike. And I remember saying that I was going to scream. I was going to ride my bike. I was riding it really fast and insisting I was going to scream. And it did make him stop and turn around.

PINSKY: Again, Kathy, I want to applaud you. What you did is you fought. You fought. You stood up for yourself. You fought him off. You didn`t allow his will to subjugate yours. Somebody taught you well. Don`t feel guilty. And I hope if other parents are out there, they will have their kids listen to listen to this story.

Thank you all for watching. thank you all for calling. I will see you next time. And Nancy Grace begins right now.