Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Remembering The Shooting Victims; Explosives Set Up In Apartment; Four Guns and 6,000 Rounds Of Ammo; Twelve Killed In Theater Shooting; Bomb Squads Work to Clear Booby-Trapped Apartment; The "Legal Guys" on Aurora Shootings Criminal Liabilities; Mitt Romney Goes Overseas

Aired July 21, 2012 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much, Randi Kaye. Great reporting there. And of course, the rest of our team still in place there in Aurora. We'll be checking in with a number of our colleagues there.

Hello, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. So right now, let's bring you up to speed on all that's taking place. Live images right now.

Bomb squads in Colorado are surrounding that booby trapped apartment belonging to the suspect in that deadly shooting rampage at the movie theatre in Aurora. A live report from the scene is it just moments away.

Ground images now as well as they continue to put up tape around that cordoned off area. So police are revealing more disturbing details about the attack in and of itself and suspected gunman James Holmes.

People who knew him are also speaking out now and a new photo posted on a sex web site may be that of Holmes with red hair there. We'll tell you how that could impact this investigation.

The community gathers in prayer to remember the 12 lives lost in the tragedy and 38 in all injured. All right, that's where we begin. We're learning more about the victims.

CNN's Nick Valencia is here with some of their stories. We understand the police department will be revealing a long list of all the victims. They haven't done that thus far.

We are expecting that momentarily. But what can you tell us about the victims that we're learning more about?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The list of those wounded and deceased will be released later on today at 2:00 p.m. local press conference expected from the Aurora Police Department. We hope to get those names sooner.

But CNN's been able to independently confirm half of those deceased. We'll start with the latest information that we have. Staff Sergeant Jesse Childress of California, he was U.S. Air Force reserve man. His family notified late this morning at about 1:00 a.m. of his passing. He was an active duty Air Force member. He was among four actually U.S. service members that were wounded in this shooting on Friday in Aurora, Colorado by suspect, James Holmes.

Now John Larimer, I believe we have pictures of him. He's a 27-year- old U.S. Navy, less than a year, had not seen active combat just yet. It was his first posting, in fact, Fredricka, near Aurora. His family saying they were notified about his death last night around midnight.

They gave us a statement. I spoke to his father in Crystal Lake, Illinois. They said, we send out thoughts and prayers out to the families of the other victims and those still recovering in the hospital. We love you, john, and we'll miss you always.

Matt McQuinn was also listed among the deceased. Like many others McQuinn's family waited agonizing hours before they were actually notified of his passing.

The girlfriend that he was with along with her brother, he was shot shielding her according to witnesses as he was protecting his girlfriend. He was shot there.

And then to make matters worse for his girlfriend, since she's not a relative, Fredricka, you know, the laws are very strict. She was unable to find the condition of her boyfriend until hours later, just very sad situation there.

Alex Sullivan is also being described as one of those that perished that day, one of that was 12 killed by this alleged shooter and suspect, James Holmes.

Alex Sullivan a gentle giant. He planned to celebrate his 27th birthday there at the theatre with his special screening, this midnight theatre screening. His dad there canvassing, you see there locally in Aurora on Friday before he found out that his son had died.

He was expected to celebrate -- Alex Sullivan expected to celebrate his one-year wedding anniversary on Sunday. He worked at the theatre, but was not there working at the theatre at that time. He was there enjoying the movie, but just a very sad situation. Smart, loving guy described as having a big heart.

Mikela Medic is another one of the six people that we've been able to confirm here at CNN, been making calls all day. She's listed as a 23- year-old woman among the dead. We confirm that with her father's cousin.

We also had a very emotional interview with her aunt earlier today with Gary Tuchman. She is described as being very spiritual and independent girl who was great fun. It took her family 19 hours before they found out that she had died.

A lot of the family members that we're hearing from saying that they wish they would have heard about this sooner. They're a little upset about the lack of time and sort of communication that happened there.

But, of course, I'm sure police wanting to confirm before they mention anything or confirm those details to us and last but --

WHITFIELD: I guess, a lot of cases, too, many victims were running. They weren't necessary with their belongings and their id. So it's been very difficult and painstaking for authorities to figure out who, you know, the identity of these bodies.

VALENCIA: That's been an emotional day for everybody involved. Calling the families, you know, it's also very difficult on our end to call. We have to be respectful of their -- and very sensitive of their situation.

One person I want to point out is Jessica Ghawi, Jessica Redfield. She was an aspiring sports broadcaster. She has become sort of the quintessential face of the victims in these shootings.

Her brother has been very active on social media. His name is Jordan creating that trending hashtag ripjessica. She was first shot in the leg according to witness reports and then later in the head.

She had moved from Texas to Denver to become an aspiring sports broadcaster. Her dream cut tragically short there in Aurora, Colorado on early Friday morning.

WHITFIELD: My goodness, so terribly sad. So you just listed seven people?

VALENCIA: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Seven people and still we have yet to learn of the many others of those who were killed in this tragedy. We'll get that list coming from the Aurora Police Department. Thanks so much. Appreciate that, Nick.

So right now the fire department, ATF and bomb disposal experts are on the scene of the suspect James Holmes' apartment. Poppy Harlow is there as well. Poppy, give us an idea. You've been -- you and other reporters are at a perimeter point there while they continue to look into this apartment and painstakingly try to figure out how to get in there because it is so heavily booby trapped.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: They are. Here's what I can tell you, Fredricka. According to a law enforcement source I spoke with in depth today.

They think there are at least a dozen explosive devices, frankly, IEDs within this apartment that have been booby trapped, rigged so that basically they would be set off by someone entering the apartment.

They sent a robot in yesterday to take video to survey. They're doing the same thing again today. I want to go step-by-step through what we know. There was a police presser here just about an hour and a half ago.

The first step for them is going to be to try to dismantle what they're calling a trip wire, basically, the booby trap part of this. And that may be done with a robot. That may also, they said, the first step include a controlled detonation that could cause a bit of a fire that would be again in that apartment building right behind me.

The next step would be to take the devices, the incendiary devices to another location, a safe location to detonate them. There has been a lot of concern because this morning the law enforcement source told me they believe that there are liquid accelerants.

Also jars with black powder in them, things connected, ammunition, things connected to these devices so when they -- if they were to blow up, then it would really fuel the fire, if you will.

That's a big concern here. That's why they say this is so unique, so unusual, so sophisticated, frankly, not really a crude setup.

I wanted to ask the police sergeant giving the presser more about what they know about those details. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: -- what the unknowns. I was told by a law enforcement official they believe there are liquid accelerants and black powder in jars thought to fuel the fire. You are doing detonation, how do you know how contained they can be?

SGT. CASSIDEE CARLSON, AURORA POLICE DEPARTMENT: We are aware of some jars that may contain some accelerants. The mutual aid and the work that is happening with the partnerships with everybody involved, you have the bomb guys.

Right next to them is the fire guys. The communication there, the incident command is amazing. So all of those things are being taken into consideration before any move is made, before a bomb guy makes a decision, he consults a fire guy.

HARLOW: And there are chemists there as well I've been told to sort of decipher what some of these accelerants may or may not be?

CARLSON: Yes. We have national experts here to handle all that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Also want to point you, Fredricka, and our viewers to some live pictures from our affiliate KMGH. What you're looking at is a group of officials in front of this apartment building on Paris Street in Aurora, Colorado, just about four miles away from that movie theatre where this massacre took place.

Those officials include everyone from FBI to local Aurora police and fire officials to ATF to bomb experts flown in from across the country to chemists that are obviously surveying what could be in that apartment before they do any detonation.

So again those live pictures that you're looking at in front of the apartment building. It's not clear whether or not anyone has entered the apartment this morning. They are planning to send a robot in to assess the situation further.

That may be under way right now. But, Fredricka, I just point out that, you know, they also told us in a police presser, they have to be very careful in any detonation obviously for safety reasons.

This is a busy area, but also not to destroy any evidence. Because the third and final step of this is an investigation and they need all the evidence they can get.

WHITFIELD: And in fact, you know, back to the robotics that they might be using while they believe that the robotics can safely get in there where humans may not be able to and at the same time not in any way contaminate what will be a treasure-trove of evidence, will it be by the use of one?

We saw yesterday they were able to, you know, some of the investigators by use of crane were looking through the windows and breaking throughout glass and able to see. And that gives them some sort of surveillance or per view of what the robotic can get to without destroying evidence, right?

HARLOW: Yes. And it's a good point that obviously the robot is the safest way for them to get in. It's not clear whether we're talking about one or multiple here. And the time line is also not clear.

You know, the police sergeant said there is no time line. We hope to get in within the next hour, which could mean they be in right now. No idea of how long it might take. They did say a law enforcement official told me they don't believe that any timers are tied to these devices, which is good news.

But I also want to point something out that is very strange and is really stuck with me through reporting on this. James Holmes left music very, very loud techno music playing in this apartment that started when he left to go to the movie theatre.

One of the neighbors complained about the music and wanted it turned off. So you have to wonder here why he left that playing and rigged this apartment like a booby trap.

You would think possibly to attract people to go in there, whether it was neighbors or first responders, but then in the parking lot after the shooting telling police that the apartment was rigged and that there were explosives.

You wonder did he have a moment of clarity. What happened there? And that's what we don't know.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Very interesting, too, the tenant who lived underneath that apartment and heard that music going off wanting to go upstairs and actually went upstairs and noticed the door was unlocked.

For a second almost opened the door, but then had second thoughts about that. As we know now, it is being booby trapped. Thank goodness that tenant did not open the door. She talked about having those second thoughts. That maybe it wouldn't be right for me to enter. Strange the door is unlocked. All right, Poppy Harlow, thanks so much. We'll check back with you as we hope to learn more about when they might enter that apartment or how they would enter that apartment. Thanks so much.

Meantime, police are scheduled to hold a news conference at 4:00 Eastern Time today to give the latest on the overall investigation, of course, CNN will be bringing that you to live.>

CNN's Don Lemon hosts a special coverage of the Colorado theatre shooting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. You don't want to miss that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, now to the crime scene of the massacre. The Century 16 Cineplex where police say suspect, James Holmes, opened fire at that screening of the new Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises."

CNN's Jim Spellman is there. So Jim, what more are people saying about how the attack unfolded? How James Holmes was able to get in and almost kind of, you know, set his plan of attack?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we hear from police here as well as multiple witnesses is that this man allegedly, James Holmes, bought a ticket to this midnight showing of the latest "Batman" movie.

Then a few minutes after the movie began, after the previews, he left through a door right out of the theatre, propped it open and re- emerged a short time later clad head to toe in black tactical gear.

The kind of thing you might see somebody on a SWAT team wearing including a gas mask, a tactical helmet, a net protection and crotch protection and black gloves and he was armed with an AR-15 assault rifle, shotgun and two handguns.

He began shooting at will. The people describe that he just went bang, bang, bang from person to person. One person described it as almost like a lawn sprinkler just going down the row.

Twelve people we know at this point dead. Dozens more injured. We hear from law enforcement officials here that he purchased the weapons legally just in the last couple of months along with thousands of rounds of ammunition and some high capacity magazines for the assault rifle -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And now what about the reaction there within the community? Clearly, people very shaken, very upset. We heard from one of the operators of the Cineplex yesterday talking about how he too, you know, was feeling the pain of the community.

SPELLMAN: Yes. Everybody here is definitely rattled. Late last night, we saw a make shift memorial pop-up right near here with candles that burned all night. Someone made a big sign that said gone, not forgotten. I think people are really trying to focus here on the victims. Interestingly, just here within the last 20 minutes or so, the mall that is adjacent to the movie theatre has reopened. We're starting to see people come back into the mall and, you know do, some shopping and sort of get back to normal.

I think a really key thing for this community is tomorrow night, Sunday night. They're planning a big vigil to honor the people -- to get a sense of community back here and to show some resilience.

This community after Columbine really came together and tried to turn that into a positive. And try to focus on what a great community they have here. I think you're going to see that same thing tomorrow night -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much. We're going to be talking later on, in fact, today to Colorado State Representative Ronda Fields about that very vigil and all else that's being planned to help keep that community together. Jim Spellman, thanks so much.

All right, and now disturbing details about how that shooting rampage was planned far in advance and now the overall concerns about security at movie theatres and why so many movie theatres are beefing up security across the U.S.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Four guns, many rounds of ammunition and full tactical gear, police say that's what suspected gunman, James Holmes, had when he walked into that crowded movie theatre and opened fire.

Twelve people killed and many others, 38 injured. HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks joining me now. So Mike, you know, what are people saying -- or police rather, saying about the firearms involved here?

We just heard from Jim Spellman who talked about this AR-15. First, it was an AK-47. Now it's an AR-15 shotgun, two handguns that he was equipped with when he walked into the theatre.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right. He had at least three of those weapons with him, the shotgun, the 12-gauge shotgun and the AR-15 and at least one .40 caliber Glock, Fred.

One other gun was found inside the theatre, but they believed he used only three of those while he was inside. And just the way he was dressed and all that ballistic gear as Jim Spellman was describing, the ballistic helmet, he even had a ballistic leg protectors.

He was better equipped than some SWAT teams I've seen here in the United States. It says to me that he was expecting a confrontation with law enforcement. That's what I think.

But the quick response possibly of the Aurora Police Department because they got there within a minute to a minute and a half and caught him at his car outside the door of that theatre in the rear parking lot.

So was he planning on a confrontation down the road with them? And the other things I've been talking to my former colleagues in the law enforcement, why would he booby trap his apartment if he was planning on going back there?

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BROOKES: See, that says to me --

WHITFIELD: He was planning on going back there or why would he booby trapped it and then apparently reveal to police once they apprehended him that I have explosives in my apartment?

BROOKS: Was it an ego thing of his or did he finally say, well, OK, you got me? I still think he was expecting a confrontation with law enforcement along the way.

Because why would he have all those rounds of ammunition also with him in the drums? H e had on that AR-15. He had a drum of ammunition. It held 100 cartridges, 100 rounds.

WHITFIELD: And perhaps had he anticipated that confrontation would have taken place right there at the theatre, not necessarily after the crime, but apparently at that movie theatre they were accustomed to having security.

That night happened to be the night that they didn't have at least two security guards present as they usually do. So perhaps he had already cased the place before, expected there would be that layer to go through before carrying out the crime.

BROOKS: There is usually an off duty police officer or two there working there part time, but there weren't that night. Was that just a coincidence or is this something he noticed on certain nights? But you would think a night of a big movie opening like that that they would have had extra security. It just happens that they didn't.

WHITFIELD: And of course, this is guesswork. But knowing or the details that we're hearing about how this apartment was booby trapped, seeing the kind of equipment that he purchased these things legally at various stores and even online.

What does this tell you about the amount of time it took to plan and execute something like this? We're talking something you can do in a matter of days, weeks, months?

BROOKS: It sounds like he was doing this over a number of months because he did buy the guns within a month or two. How long did it take him to buy that ammunition and this tactical gear?

It would take probably a while to acquire everything that he has inside that apartment. We're hearing from Chief Oates of the Aurora police that there are jars of which I think are flammable liquid, jars of rounds, black powder. And what the chief was calling mortars, which are actually commercial fireworks that they would use at a commercial fireworks display. It would take him a while to acquire all of this. But it's going to be tough. I think they'll be able to render that apartment safe probably by today.

WHITFIELD: Really? All this while we're looking at live pictures right now, those are live pictures from our affiliate KCNC, of kind of the ground point of view looking up to -- he had the third floor -- a third floor unit there. You could see the windows have been busted out because they did that early on in the investigation.

BROOKS: They did that yesterday, yes.

WHITFIELD: All right, we're going to talk you to again throughout the day. Thanks so much for that. Of course, as we hear more information about whether and how they'll be able to enter that booby trapped apartment. Mike Brooks, thanks so much.

All right, the suspect in that mass shooting at a Colorado movie theatre, what is ahead for him legally? Our legal guys are poised and ready to go to talk about obviously murder charges, attempted murder, but there are likely a host of other charges that will be coming the way of James Holmes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: James Holmes, the 24-year-old suspect in the mass shooting at that Colorado movie theatre is scheduled to go to court Monday morning. So what potentially is ahead for him legally?

Let's bring in our legal guys. They are always best to ask. Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland. Good to see you. And New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joining from Austin, Texas. Good to see you as well.

All right, gentlemen, Avery, you first. Obviously, we can expect murder charges, attempted murder, but especially as investigators try to make their way into that apartment and as they learn more about just what kind of planning may have gone into this shooting, what other potential charges are we looking at?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: You'll have a multiple of potential charges, not just aggravated murder, murder, attempted murder, you actually have arson charges, aggravated arson, domestic terrorism.

If you multiply, Fredricka, the number of potential charges just in the 71 alone, you're over 500 charges, that excludes the booby trap charges that will be also, I think, rendered by a grand jury here.

So we are dealing with hundreds of potential charges against Holmes and I think in this case there is still much to be known and could be even more than that.

WHITFIELD: Wow, extraordinary, up to 500 or maybe even more so. Richard, we're talking about James Holmes, the suspect making his way into court the first time come Monday. He'll be looking at or facing local, you know, charges. But we have federal authorities on the ground as well. What do you see in term of the potential of the legal avenue that he's going to be going down?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, what a sombre day and a day for reflection, Fred. CNN is just doing a wonderful job of coverage on this case.

When this man walks into court Monday, I don't know if he knows where he's going to be or his stage is in life. This man is facing the end of his life. Now whether or not they're going to be able to come up with any sort of mental defect or incapacity or mental illness, I don't know.

But as you just touched on with my buddy, Mike Brooks earlier, there was a lot of time and effort and planning that went into this. And that's really going to take him out of the realm of any sort of insanity deal.

So this man looks like he's going to go to trial eventually on this case and he'll die in prison. That's what's going to happen here.

WHITFIELD: But apparently, he has already obtained an attorney, we understand, gentlemen. And so given what we've learned thus far, just in less than 24 hours time, of where the purchases of these firearms took place, and to get a permit and the time that it may have taken to actually plan this, might there be separate charges that would come -- even if he legally purchased these firearms, Avery, might there be separate charges that would involve, you know, the permitting or the licensing or the obtaining of these firearms?

FRIEDMAN: I don't think so. In Colorado, you spend $152.50 to get a permit per arm. And he has, at least, as we know in this case, four. One might argue that somehow, the Bass shop that sold the arms would be legally responsible.

I can't even come up with any potential legal theory because, frankly, when they do a background check and do the other obligations that gun sellers have to do, they didn't do anything wrong, as far as we know right now.

So in terms of liability of the gun sellers, those people that supplied it, Fredricka, I don't see anything. Not a thing.

WHITFIELD: Given the precedents of Columbine, and there were other things that followed after Columbine -- the DA is known to be one who would advocate or pursue or explore the death penalty -- do you see, Richard, in this case it being inevitable?

HERMAN: Well, if you're going to have the death penalty, if you believe in it and it's legal, isn't this the case for it? I mean, come on. What a tragedy. What just an utter disgrace and just horrific conduct here!

But I think Avery is right, Fred. In the state of Colorado, all there is, is a requirement for the gun dealers to reflect the sale on the books, keep records of the sales of these types of guns. There's no registration requirement in the state of Colorado. And therefore, he legally obtained these rifles and these Glocks that he had. All the equipment he had was legally obtained.

So having that been the state of the law in Colorado, we're looking at actually what happened. I think that's where all the liability is going to fall.

WHITFIELD: OK, I've got another...

FRIEDMAN: Well, you know, there's -- there's...

WHITFIELD: Oh, real quick, though, Avery.

FRIEDMAN: I was going to say...

WHITFIELD: I've a host of other questions for you.

FRIEDMAN: ... maybe we'll see...

WHITFIELD: But right now, we need to go to Aurora. This is Sergeant Cassidee Carlson right outside that booby-trapped apartment. Let's listen in.

SGT. CASSIDEE CARLSON, AURORA POLICE DEPARTMENT: He governor John Hickenlooper, Aurora mayor Steve Hogan have arrived on scene. They've been with us. Once they leave this scene, they will be going and visiting victims at area hospitals.

So for the update at the apartment, we have been successful in defeating the first threat. As you may recall, I described that threat as a trip-wire, and also included defeating the first incendiary device.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Can you repeat that?

CARLSON: Yes. We have been successful in defeating the first threat, which includes defeating the trip-wire that -- and the first incendiary device. What you need to understand is that this trip-wire was set up to clearly detonate when somebody entered that apartment and it was set up to kill that person, and that could have been a police officer executing a search warrant, or anything. So this is some serious stuff that our team is dealing with.

So what's happening now, what the team is dealing with now, is they're reassessing the scene now that this first threat has been taken care of. This has provided them a chance to rest and reassess.

There are other devices inside. I'm not going into detail about what those devices are. Let's keep in mind the integrity of this investigation, reference this mass tragedy that occurred yesterday.

Now, in the second phase, this may include the controlled detonation of another triggering mechanism. I spoke you to about that this morning. If that's to occur, keeping public safety in mind, we'll be shutting down Peoria Street behind me and doing a reverse 911 call, and you all will be notified.

If -- shall this controlled detonation occur, there will be a loud -- a boom associated with that. But we will give you a heads-up if this will happen. That's what's being assessed as we speak.

That's all I have for the update. And just as a reminder to you guys, please stay on the east side of Peoria Street for your safety. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: OK, you've been listening to Sergeant Cassidee Carlson there of the Aurora Police Department just outside of that apartment complex that has been booby-trapped.

We're going to talk a little bit more on the other side of the break about exactly this first and second phase that she speaks of, what it all means. We've got security analyst Mike Brooks with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, just moments ago, we were talking to our "Legal Guys," Avery and Richard, about the legal road ahead for suspect James Holmes involved in that movie massacre. We're going to resume our conversation with them in a moment and talk about the intent to hurt first responders and how that might impact the legal road ahead.

But first, we had a press conference just moments ago that interrupted our conversation, but giving us the update about that booby-trapped apartment belonging to James Holmes. We heard from the sergeant from the Aurora Police Department talking about successes in two phases of their detonation process and getting a better understanding of exactly what's inside.

That's when we're going to bring in now our security analyst, Mike Brooks. Let's talk about that first phase that Sergeant Cassidee Carlson talked about. She says successfully, they eliminated, or defeated, in her words...

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SECURITY ANALYST: Right.

WHITFIELD: -- the first threat, which was a trip-wire...

BROOKS: Right.

WHITFIELD: -- right there in the apartment. Clearly, that is for first responders or anyone who were to enter that apartment aside from James Holmes himself.

BROOKS: Right. And that's the first stage of that booby-trap, if you will, is that trip-wire that was -- if the door would open, it would trip the electrical current and set off maybe an incendiary device or something else inside that apartment. To me, that says the bomb techs inside, they're rolling right along here. They're doing well. They've got the first trip-wire and incendiary device. They've rendered that safe. Now they're going to go back and they're going to analyze what else is left in that apartment.

We've heard that there's jars of bullets, of ammo, and also these mortars that are basically commercial fireworks, if you will, that would be used for a commercial fireworks display. They're going to take a look at this. They're going to see if there's any kind of detonator that would be used to set that off. And you also have to have some kind of electrical source.

So they'll go in -- and you heard her say there might be a detonation. They'd notify people. Well, that may not happen. That may happen, it may not happen. They will go in with a disrupter and they will see if they can disrupt that electrical current, which would render safe that particular device, if it is a device.

Sometimes you'll hear a bang. But then sometimes you can have what they call a sympathetic detonation that would be a little bit larger. That may, that may not happen. Hopefully, it won't.

But also, if they think it's safe enough to take those devices outside, they would take them to another disposal area away from all the apartments and render it safe there. And you would basically almost have, like, a post-blast scene so you wouldn't lose any of that evidence.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

BROOKS: So that -- and that's an important part because, you know, when I was the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force and assigned to our bomb response team, we would go out and we'd do these kind of things on a regular basis. If we did find a suspicious package, we'd take it out somewhere and shoot it or shoot it in place.

WHITFIELD: And we did hear from the sergeant that she would caution that if they had that controlled detonation, they will need to close off...

BROOKS: Right.

WHITFIELD: -- the perimeter, close off some of those streets, try to keep reporters back, residents, anyone milling about...

BROOKS: Right.

WHITFIELD: -- as far as possible because they don't know the potential.

BROOKS: No, you don't. You've got the special agent bomb techs from the FBI working with the local bomb techs there, and you've got teams from Quantico, from the lab there, chemists, hazardous materials specialists from the FBI lab there that will collect all of this and send it back to the explosives lab in Quantico for further -- further...

WHITFIELD: Mike Brooks, fantastic.

BROOKS: ... analysis.

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much...

BROOKS: Sure.

WHITFIELD: -- for that.

We're going to take a short break and then we're going to hear from our "legal guys" on what all this means to the legal road ahead for suspect James Holmes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, movie massacre suspect James Holmes in court for the first time on Monday, just a few days after opening fire, killing 12 and injuring 38 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado.

Let's bring back our "Legal Guys," Avery Friedman in Cleveland and Richard Herman joining us from Austin, Texas, today.

So gentlemen, we just heard from the sergeant from the Aurora Police Department about this booby-trapped apartment, what they're up against, dismantling a trip-wire. That's the first phase of trying to take control of this booby-trapped apartment. But then there are other things. They've got to do a controlled detonation, potentially.

So this brings us to the legal road ahead for James Holmes. And Richard, you first on this. As we find out now about the potential intent to harm maybe first responders or anyone who were to enter his apartment building after this crime unfolding at the movie theater, what does this tell you about the road ahead for his defense, especially when you're also hearing now that the suspect told authorities that, My apartment is loaded with explosives?

So if there was intent to harm first responders, then why in the world give a warning? Might he have had second thoughts? How does that impact his case?

HERMAN: And Fred, not only that, he gave himself up peacefully to police, despite the fact he was in full armor...

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: ... ready to engage. So obviously, this is a conflicted soul here. And as he gave himself up peacefully from the movie theater, if the DA takes off the death penalty off the table here, Fred, I'm hoping that this individual is just going to plead out, not put the families through the hell of having to go through trial on this.

There is no defense to this particular case. There's nowhere for him to go here. This was a brutal, savage event. And the fact that he set up those booby-traps -- he got the gear, he purchased all that fire equipment and ammo -- it shows he thought about this.

FRIEDMAN: Yes. Right.

HERMAN: He reflected up on it. He planned. He intended it. It goes against every sort of defense you possibly could come up with, Fred.

WHITFIELD: So Avery, your sounds, I'm deciphering that means you're in disagreement.

FRIEDMAN: Well, I mean, look, you're not going to take capital murder off the plate here. The prosecutors have to charge the guy.

You know what? Mike Brooks said something really interesting. He talked about leading up to what was going on. You know what? And I don't know that anyone said this yet, but to me, James Holmes was looking at a personal Armageddon. And after he sprayed these bullets, hitting 71 people, he goes out, gives up, basically, standing by his white Hyundai.

And then what does he do? He tells the cops about the booby-trap, which, again, would have resulted in the deaths, maiming of many others, particularly first responders. So I think no matter what, capital murder is on the table. I don't think they're taking it off.

WHITFIELD: All right, and while you're talking, Avery, we're also looking at new live pictures that are coming from our affiliate KCNC. And you're seeing those authorities that are in what's called the so- called "bucket" as they are ascending now the outside of that apartment complex.

Inside a third floor unit, that is what is believed to be booby- trapped by the suspect, James Holmes. And you're seeing how they're delicately now trying to move about and try to detonate in a controlled manner in any way they can -- KCNC, our affiliate, right now with these live images.

Of course, we're going to continue to keep a close watch on all that's taking place at this scene. This is an active scene here as they try to figure out the best way in which to get into this booby-trapped apartment, but at the same time not compromise any potential physical or intellectual evidence that they may be able to glean from this.

All right, much more of our continued coverage. Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, thanks so much for your expertise, as always. Appreciate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Back to our coverage of the Colorado movie massacre in a moment. But first in politics, Mitt Romney is taking his campaign overseas next week. He'll be meeting with world leaders and going to the Olympics opening ceremony in London.

CNN national political correspondent Jim Acosta has a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mitt Romney will be busy when he goes overseas. He is scheduled to leave for his foreign trip on Tuesday and arrive in Great Britain on Wednesday.

(voice-over): Aides to the GOP contender says this trip is really an opportunity for him to listen and learn but also make what they're calling a clear and resolute stand with nations that share American values.

Now, in the UK, Romney is expected to meet with Prime Minister David Cameron and former prime minister Tony Blair. Of course, the timing of this trip is no accident. Romney is set to attend the opening ceremonies for the Olympics in London. So look for Romney and his campaign to tout his experience in turning around the Salt Lake City Olympic games in 2002, a story his aides say the public hasn't heard enough of.

Now, from Britain, Romney is expected to head to Israel for meetings with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli president Shimon Peres. Romney's advisers say the Republican contender will make a concerted effort to, quote, "lock arms" with Israeli leaders. That, of course, is to draw a contrast with the sometimes tense relationship between Netanyahu and President Obama.

Now, after Israel, Romney heads to Poland, where he will sit down with former president Lech Walesa and meet with some of that nation's other current leaders.

(on camera): And Romney will have, of course, a lot on his plate when he returns from his foreign trip. There's the matter of picking a vice presidential running mate and getting ready for the Republican convention in August.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Manchester, New Hampshire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Live pictures right now by way of our affiliate, KCNC in Aurora, Colorado. This is the apartment complex where movie massacre suspect James Holmes lived and has booby-trapped his unit on the third floor there.

You're seeing bomb experts who are in that so-called bucket. What they're trying to do is figure out the best way to do a controlled detonation, perhaps, of any mechanisms inside that unit. They are happy to have been able to defeat what they call the first threat, which was a trip-wire in that unit.

Later on today, we're going to be actually be joined by retired FBI agent and bomb expert to give us kind of step-by-step of all that's taking place there, and all of that is in jeopardy, as well, which includes crucial evidence that might be in that apartment. So they want to detonate this explosive material or any kind of continued wires. But at the same time, they want to be able to secure evidence. And we're also going to be getting reaction from a Colorado state representative who will be part of a Sunday vigil for the victims. She's going to be joining us at 4:00 o'clock. And then the Aurora Police Department will also have an update at 4:00 o'clock. We'll be bringing that to you live, as well.

I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Much more straight ahead. Right now, time for "YOUR MONEY."