Return to Transcripts main page

Jane Velez-Mitchell

More Details Emerge about Colorado Shooting Suspect

Aired July 24, 2012 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Startling new discoveries inside the Colorado shooting suspect`s apartment. Exactly how much carnage could we have seen Friday, had just one of his bombs exploded? Or had his gun not jammed? Also, we`ve got new insight into his state of mind during the shooting. Brand-new information. Was he on prescription meds?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, shocking new details about the massive amounts of explosives discovered inside the accused Colorado shooter`s apartment. Cops say it would have leveled the entire apartment complex.

Plus, disturbing claims that James Holmes took the powerful painkiller Vicodin just hours before he allegedly committed the murderous rampage. Could drugs have played a role?

And we`re analyzing the profile of mass murders. Why are so many of them white males? I`m taking your calls.

Then stunning new developments in the case of two young girls who vanished while riding their bikes. Cops now believe little Elizabeth and little Lyric are alive. And a mystery boater could be the key to finding them. I`ll talk to the little girl`s aunt tonight about why one of the children`s moms is taking yet another polygraph.

And the Jackson family feud escalates. Did Janet Jackson try to grab Paris` cell phone during an angry confrontation? Is there a new battle for guardianship of Michael`s three kids? And where in the world is Katherine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are in the auditorium.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three fifteen and 314, there is at least one person that`s been shot. But they`re saying there`s hundreds of people just running around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as we heard the first shots, my sister immediately grabbed my arm and wanted to leave, as quick as possible. Yes. It was terrifying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just remember thinking, "I`m not going to die in here. Me and my kids, we`re not going to die in here. I need to get them out."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Preliminary determination of probable cause to believe your committed the offense of first-degree murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect was dressed all in black. He was wearing a ballistic helmet, a tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector and a groin protector, and a gas mask.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally take off the mask and you see who this person really is, it`s just -- it`s like a shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is something that we don`t accept. We can`t explain at this point. But we`re not -- we`re not going to just let it happen to us. We`re going to push back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want the victims to be remembered rather than this coward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to miss him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And our hearts go out to those families.

I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. We`ve got some disturbing -- more disturbing new information and insight into how many people massacre suspect James Holmes may have intended to kill.

Police say the man who murdered 12 people and wounded dozens more inside a Colorado movie theater had set up an unbelievable death trap back at his apartment.

In addition to a Batman mask, law enforcement found a sophisticated maze of booby traps, trip wires, explosives. We`re now learning there were 30 homemade grenades or IEDs. Officials say they were more like devices found in Iraq or Afghanistan, like weapons of war.

The IEDs were wired to a control box that had to be defused. No small task considering the wires looked like spaghetti according to cops. There were also ten gallons of gasoline in Holmes` apartment. Had any of the explosive devices gone off, it could have sparked a fireball big enough to consume the entire building and perhaps some surrounding buildings.

Many experts and survivors agree this tragedy could have been, as horrifying as it was, even worse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a miracle it wasn`t worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As bad as this is, it could have been a lot worse. The armor he`s equipped with would defeat the rounds carried by the police officers. The weapons he had would have defeated their armor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could have been much worse, had they not been able to get inside that apartment and identify those chemicals and the other components that they found in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: James Holmes had assembled an arsenal of guns, grenades, gas bombs, thousands of rounds of ammo after he sprayed the crowd with the initial rounds of gunfire, miraculously his gun jammed. Listen to these survivors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was standing right above me and just kind of staring. And then he just stopped shooting. And I learned that it appears that his gun jammed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that gun -- if that gun did not jam, I`m full certain that I would not be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about the alleged killer`s state of mind? Holmes looked totally out of it during his first court appearance yesterday.

Now our affiliate, KMGI, is reporting tonight that Holmes took 100 milligrams -- KMGH is saying 100 milligrams of the painkiller Vicodin some time Thursday just hours before the shooting. That according to their sources. Could that have given him some kind of chemical courage to go through with the massacre? Vicodin?

Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to CNN correspondent Poppy Harlow on the ground in Colorado.

Poppy, what have you learned about how this apartment was rigged and how bad the destruction might have been had it gone off?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jane, I`ve had very in-depth conversations with a law enforcement official who was on the scene on Saturday when police detonated the bombs inside of that control box.

And he has reviewed video that was taken inside of Holmes` apartment, described it to me in great detail, as you`ve said. Some 30 homemade grenades or IEDs filled with gunpowder. The wires from them attached and going into a main control box in the kitchen telling me it looked like, quote, "spaghetti" in there.

Also saying that this was more similar to things that the source had seen in Afghanistan or Iraq than things that he had seen here in the United States. Not unlike anything he`d seen, but things he had rarely seen in this country.

I was also told, you know, imagine the fireball that could have gone off if that had been set off by someone entering the apartment. I`m told the flame would have consumed the entire third floor of the apartment complex. And by the time a fire truck would have arrived, they would have arrived to a building that would have been completely consumed in flames.

And just to give you some perspective on how close we came to that, the downstairs neighbor that lived below Holmes, Kaitlin Hondi, heard techno music blasting from the apartment in those early morning hours on Friday. Went upstairs to the apartment to complain, felt that the door was unlocked, almost went into Holmes` apartment, which easily could have set off that trip wire and the explosives, but decided last-minute not to. Take a listen to what she told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLIN HONDI, NEIGHBOR: I went upstairs and knocked on the door quite a few times and realized that it was possibly unlocked. And so I thought about peering my head in there, putting my had on the door handle, and just yelling at them to say turn it down. And I just decided -- I decided not to do that. I had a trepidation, and a little voice told me, no, just to let the cops handle it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Pretty amazing she had that voice in her head, Jane. I`ll also tell you that my source when I asked, did it appear like this apartment was rigged correctly? Would it have worked? And he said, yes, it appears it was rigged right, that this was very sophisticated. This was not a crude setup. And it looked like it would have detonated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re looking. You just saw some of the ordnance detonated by authorities, fires in a lot that they set up to get rid of some of this ordnance. Thank you so much for that excellent report, Poppy.

Now, shooting survivor Corbin Dates got quite the shock when he saw the shooting suspect, James Holmes, in court yesterday. Let`s listen and then we`re going to talk to him live.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORBIN DATES, SURVIVOR: He has no right to come into court looking like he has a sad face. The look that he has right now is not something that`s going to be believable by anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think it`s an act?

DATES: Yes. He had this thought out very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Corbin joins us now live. First of all, thank you for joining us, Corbin. Please let us know if anything I ask you is upsetting. I want to respect your feelings. So that being said, tell us your reaction to the news that the suspect`s apartment was so heavily booby trapped with explosives that it could have destroyed the entire building had it detonated.

DATES: Honestly, ever since the event happened, I want to say I have not watched the news since until recently watching him go to trial. When I first found out that his apartment was booby-trapped heavily, it first came to my mind that I thought this person had this premeditated for a very, very long time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL; How about the news that the gun jammed? You were there in the theater. You have described feeling the cartridges or the -- I`m not a gun expert. Thank God. But some of the shells hitting you, the hot shells hitting you.

DATES: That`s correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were face-to-face with him. What about this news now from the FBI that the gun jammed? And had it not jammed, many more could have been killed inside the theater where you were at.

DATES: For the gun jamming, the only thing I can say about that is that it was probably the -- an act of God. And yes, it was true as -- as the gunman came into the auditorium and threw his gas canister into the audience and went off and he started firing his rifle, I did immediately hit the ground. And as I was crawling through, I did hear his gun shells hitting the ground. Some of them did roll up under the first row and burn me in the leg.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.

DATES: If it wasn`t for his gun jamming, I...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. I want to hear that.

DATES: I`m sorry. If it wasn`t for his gun jamming, I do think that that was probably an act of God. And I`m glad that those who were able to get out did survive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I believe it was miraculous that his gun jammed. Thank God for that. Corbin, thank you for sharing that. Stand by. We want to get your insights as we go through some of this extraordinary information.

We`ve also got brand-new information tonight that just 12 days before the shooting a local pastor thinks that James Holmes attended his church. Listen to what he told our Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, as soon as the service was over?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gone. Booked through the hallway. We had people say hi to him. In fact, say, hey, you want anything? Just kept going, head down, moving towards the door with a hat on, got out of the parking lot, got in his car and left.

LAVANDERA: That was it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was it. But we remember the face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And here`s the creepiest part. New visitors at the church got a free movie ticket for just coming to the service. The man believed to be James Holmes, they said he had his cap down over his face, sat in the back and left right after the service.

Dr. Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist, what significance do you see of this individual if, indeed, it was him going to a service, a religious service 12 days before the shooting?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Couple of things going on. Perhaps wrestling with his own mental health issues, being able to talk to God, trying to get some direction as to what to do, trying to avoid the carnage that he was going to become part of.

But if we look at it from a delusion -- if he had a delusional situation going on, it could have been that he felt he had a very special relationship with God. We know that people who are delusional, who have hallucinations, sometimes use religion to wrap around that kind of a delusional state.

So it might have been his own private time as to what to do and what, perhaps command hallucinations coming down from the heavens was telling him to do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER SEEGER, WITNESS: It almost seemed like fun to him, honestly. It just seemed like a game to him like it was just some big plot. And I`m pretty sure he planted the whole thing out. It seemed like one big scheme to him and he was having fun killing innocent children and moms and dads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That a witness, Jennifer Seeger, a witness who was right there face-to-face with the gunman who is seen here in court just yesterday.

Local Denver affiliate KMGH is reporting tonight that sources tell them the suspect, James Holmes -- you`re looking at him -- took 100 milligrams of Vicodin before the shooting. This is according to their sources. CNN has not independently confirmed it.

KMGH reports Holmes took the Vicodin, according to his sources, about two hours before the shooting after midnight early Friday morning. So the shootings happened after midnight early Friday morning. He took them approximately two hours -- let`s say 9:30 or 10, according to these sources.

At his appearance yesterday Holmes appeared dazed and out of it. No one could confirm whether he was on any medication. A lot of experts including dr. Drew said it looked like it. We`re delighted to have Dr. Drew with us tonight.

Dr. Drew, is it possible that he had a prescription for Vicodin? And could prescription drugs be a factor in this case?

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN ANCHOR: It`s possible. It doesn`t pass the sniff test for me. I`ve got to tell you, Jane. But it`s possible. I`d worry more about hallucinogens and things that can induce psychoses where people really disconnect from reality and become agitated.

But let`s say it is opiates, it is Vicodin. If he had taken ten Vicodin that evening -- you`re talking 100 milligrams, which is over ten Vicodin, he would be in liver failure today, if he had all of a sudden taken that many Vicodin. So we know he didn`t do that.

Or he must have been dependent on Vicodin and taking at least that much on a regular basis in order for his liver to adjust to that and tolerate that much, in which case he would have been in withdrawal in these pictures we`re seeing here, which he clearly is not. His pupils are mid- position. His eyelids are heavy. That`s not somebody in withdrawal. That`s somebody who`s medicated with psychiatric medication.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Drew, having covered crime for too many decades, one thing I`ve noticed is that drug abuse or alcoholism is often a factor -- that it`s very hard for people, unless they are seriously delusional and they are completely out of touch with reality, to commit a horrific act without some kind of liquid or chemical courage. I`ve seen it time and time and time and time again.

The more horrific the crime, the more we end up finding out drugs and/or alcohol were behind it. Your thoughts.

PINSKY; Well, again, there`s a difference between abuse and addiction. I don`t think this is an addiction story. But I would not be surprised if we found abuse.

If he had taken a bunch of Vicodin and alcoholism has been alleged, that would have decreased his level of agitation. That would have put him towards sleep, which made him -- might have made him less likely to commit these horrific acts.

On the other hand, it might have been depressed some of his ability to perceive the consequences of his actions. So you could make the case he was intoxicated with something.

Again, the thing I worry about, again, I just feel like we`re going to hear a story about this 00 is hallucinogenics. Somebody who suddenly becomes severely agitated and severely psychotic who was messing around with various substances. And again, there`s some evidence that he may have been. You`ve got to worry about those substances triggering something in somebody that makes them awful.

Now, what doesn`t fit with that, however, and what doesn`t fit with a lot of his story is this ability to plan with such methodical planning this horrific event. He planned it out for months. It`s hard to make the case that he was psychotic for months, that he was intoxicated for months or he didn`t know right from wrong for months. You have to wonder whether or not, in addition to a psychotic situation, there was something like malignant narcissism here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And don`t miss Dr. Drew`s show tonight. He`s going to be taking a critical look at the profile of a mass murderer. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Drew. We`ll see you tonight, 9 p.m. on HLN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After I got hit, I fell to the ground. And just waiting for the shooting to stop. And then the thought goes across my mind, this is not actually happening. It was hard to believe it even when it was happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go out to noted criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes.

We`re getting this profile. You heard possibility reports sources say he was taking Vicodin, he had visited a church 12 days before.

We`ve also got this report that he had a profile allegedly -- we can`t confirm it`s him, but somebody who has red hair and some people say looks like him, a dating Web site profile where he says words to the effect of the words, "I`ll see you in prison." What is your profile that`s emerging of this alleged monster?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think what we`re going to see here, Jane, is somebody who has had mental health issues but may not be legally insane.

This is a man -- Dr. Drew and Dr. Gardere both pointed it out. This is a man who planned. He was very meticulous. He spent months gathering these weapons, purchasing this ammo. When he walked out of his apartment, the way he rigged it, Jane, he did not plan on going home. He knew what he was going to do. He knew it was wrong. And he would probably either die or be arrested for it. And therefore, there was no need for him to go back home.

So I think we`re going to hear that there`s a history of psychiatric problems, but they may not rise to the level. Remember, you have to not know the difference between right and wrong. You have to be suffering from that delusional compulsion at the time.

This is a man who calmly walked into the theater with everybody else, sat down like he was just going to watch the movie and then snuck out the back door, propped it open and came back in with all of that ammo.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got it. Premeditation.

HUGHES: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Craig Scott. Thank you for your patience, Craig. Your story is absolutely incredible. You`re a survivor of the Columbine massacre in 1999 that left 13 people dead, including your precious sister.

You saw friends die. You saw the shooters. I want to thank you for sharing your experience. What are the survivors in this case facing now?

CRAIG SCOTT, SURVIVOR OF COLUMBINE: I think they`re facing a lot of shock right now. And hopefully what seems to be happening in the communities is there`s a lot of unity, a lot of coming together. I think it`s a wonderful thing to happen. The phases to come are things like I faced like depression.

I think a lot of people are feeling angry right now, questioning and probably pretty upset as they`re watching the shooter on the news, especially as they`re going to -- and the media to come hear possible justification or, you know, things like did he have a mental disorder and, you know, did that -- feeling like people are beginning to excuse what he did.

And so I can tell you that that will make them even more angry, because I think they know and we know that there`s just no good reason for what he did. And there`s no excuse. And there`s -- you can`t be excused away by a disorder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about the horror of now having to relive it with law enforcement interviews? What was that like for you?

SMITH: You know, I think the media was very sensitive and very kind and good towards my family, towards me, my experience has always been positive with the media. And I hope that that`s their experience as well. I hope they don`t feel like any one in the media is very insensitive with them. I hope that the media can share the right stories, focus on the positive.

I know that, you know, after Columbine and over a decade later of trying to figure out why the shooters did what they did and so much psychologists studying it and the FBI trying to figure it out, there`s still really no good reason. They can`t really explain why the shooters at Columbine did what they did. And we haven`t seen anything good from that kind of a study.

What I`ve seen more good come from is focused on people like my sister who was very kind and compassionate. And my family started a program because of her message and what she stood for. And we`ve seen so much good come from that.

And so that`s why I just think it`s so important what you focus on, what you place your attention on, you give power to. And I hope the media, I hope the victims, I hope the wounded place their attention on the right things.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really like lasted probably for like about a minute or two. That`s how probably like -- realistically that`s how it lasted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Theater is secure. We`re bringing out bodies now. Get someone to the back as soon as you can. Rescue personnel I got like three to seven hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the right to remain silent. If you make any statements they can be used against you.

Probable cause to believe you`ve committed the offense of first-degree murder, which is a class I felony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the people just dead. He had no bound. He had no shame. He did not care about age. He did not care about sex. He didn`t care about anything. Little girls were shot. Little boys were shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Holmes spent month planning out his alleged rampage; gathering his arsenal, executing his plan and pulling the trigger with quote, "calculation and deliberation".

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just ran out. I didn`t turn around. I didn`t look behind me. I just got out. And then there was a moment where my daughter tripped and I just pulled her up and I was just dragging her. I was just thinking you`ve just got to get out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tried to just help my friends get out. I saw multiple of my friends and people that I didn`t know get shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More disturbing new information tonight about the man police say murdered 12 people and wounded dozens more inside a Colorado movie theater. That he had set up, cops say, an unbelievable death trap at his apartment. They found a Batman mask.

But that`s not the problem. Law enforcement found a sophisticated maze of booby traps, trip wires, explosives; we`re now learning tonight that they found 30 homemade grenades or IEDs. Officials say they were more like devices found in Iraq or Afghanistan. These IEDs were wire to a control box that had to be diffused. The wires were like -- they looked like spaghetti according to police.

Ten gallons of gas also found in the apartment -- had any of the explosives gone off, it could have sparked a fireball big enough to consume the entire building. The suspect`s neighbor nearly opened the door to tell him to turn down the blaring techno music that was also part of the whole booby trap. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLYN PONZI, SUSPECT`S NEIGHBOR: And I went upstairs and knocked on the door quite a few times and realized that it was possibly unlocked. And so I thought about peering my head in there. I had my hand on the door handle just yelling at them to say, hey, turn it down. And I just decided not to do that. I just had a trepidation and a little voice told me, "No, just let the cops handle it."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go straight out to Dr. Brian Russell, forensic psychologist. What do you make of that and the new information from an affiliate claiming their sources tell them that the suspect James Holmes took a large quantity of Vicodin about two and a half hours before the massacre. Your thoughts.

DR. BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, this case is full of what I call the three P`s -- planning, preparation and practice. And those three things plus active concealment of one`s activities cuts strongly against any insanity defense.

Now, I theorize, Jane, that the Vicodin was actually part of the planning, preparation and practice in that he may have taken that in the event that he were to get injured in the course of it that he would be able to continue on and complete it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you examine mass murderers in recent history, a majority of them are indeed white males. Tonight we`re asking why is that? Just to name a few there`s Jared Loughner -- he allegedly opened fire at a campaign rally in Tucson, Arizona, six people died, 13 were injured including state representative Gabrielle Giffords.

Timothy McVeigh who blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building killing 168 people and injuring hundreds.

Plus 1999 the two teenagers we`ve been talking about with the courageous survivor tonight Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, monsters who attacked Colorado`s Columbine school killing 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves.

And it`s not just in the U.S. There`s a Norwegian man accused of killing dozens of people in an anti-government attack.

So I want to go to Dr. Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist. Why such a large number of white male killers when it comes to mass killings?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: What we`re seeing is this power and privilege to being a white male. So they`re much more angry when they`re deprived; that sense of entitlement is violated. Because of their color, financial resources, red flags are unintentionally hidden or masked and thus they escape the attention of many of the authorities, law enforcement and medical establishment. So they don`t get the treatment or the help that they need. And then they`re left to fester in their psychosis and in their anger.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ll tell you, there are deep psychological reasons why these men -- and we`re not convicting this man, he`s an accused mass murder -- but why men who are convicted of mass murder have used guns as a symbol of power.

These are mourners, obviously, around the movie theater. Famed attorney Alan Dershowitz told CNN`s Piers Morgan why guns can make men who are actually powerless in real life suddenly feel powerful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For valid reasons --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t know what you`re talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Psychological reasons --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to respond to his --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. I don`t know if you heard it, but Holly Hughes, he was referring to guns as a phallic symbol for men who have been disappointed by life who may have a grudge, who may feel victimized, who may have a chip on their shoulder, who may be filled with rage. This guy, our suspect, was a PhD dropout. Aren`t guns sometimes the great equalizer?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I`m not sure about the whole phallic symbol thing. What it is, it`s a way to get results. It`s a fast way to get results. He didn`t go in there with a knife and assault one or two people. He knew what he wanted to do. He planned it out. He wanted to kill as many people as possible.

You know what? That`s the fastest way to do it, Jane. So I wouldn`t give him too much credit about thinking it all through and attributing, you know, some sort of hidden meaning to what a gun is. A gun is a way to get results. And sadly and tragically in this particular case it`s deadly results.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but, Dr. Brian Russell, why this history of white males? You don`t have hardly any women committing these kinds of crimes.

RUSSELL: Well, there`s no question, Jane, that the perpetrators skew male. The average brain of a male seems to simply have a greater capacity for physical violence than the average female brain. But the idea that there`s a Caucasian connection really is not clear Jane.

Nidal Hasan at Fort Hood, Cho Seung-Hui at Virginia Tech -- there are multiple murders going on in Gangland America on a weekly basis involving non-Caucasian victims and perpetrators. And those don`t get as much coverage.

So, you know, even among the spree and school types of cases that we were talking about like we saw in Colorado, we`ve got Hasan, we`ve got Cho Seung-Hui, we`ve got non-Caucasian perpetrators there so when you consider the demographics of the U.S. and thankfully the low frequency of these kinds of crimes relatively, there`s really not a strong body of evidence for a Caucasian connection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got stunning new information in the search for two missing girls in Iowa. Cops say they now believe the girls were abducted and they are still alive. Is the family fully cooperating with police?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe these girls are alive. And we are not discouraged by the passage of time since their disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just baffling to try to figure out the pieces to the puzzle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother of one of the two girls missing in Iowa says she has passed a lie detector test.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s sad, you know, that they`re not found yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, brand new information coming out about the adorable cousins that went missing in Iowa. Cops now say they believe the girls are alive -- wonderful news. But could there be tension brewing inside the families of these two girls?

Yesterday the mother of 8-year-old Elizabeth told GMA without everyone in the family`s full cooperation cops can`t bring these children home. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOTHER OF MISSING IOWA GIRL: When they don`t have full cooperation their focus has to be on other issues rather than on the girls being found. And that`s our main concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: (inaudible) cops saying most but not all of the family was cooperating with the 11-day old investigation now called an abduction. The mom of 10-year-old Lyric says she passed a lie detector test and says cops should start looking in another direction. Quote, "can rule me out of their book and move onto something else."

Straight out to Tammy Brousseau, the missing girls` aunt. Tammy what do you know about Misty and her lie detector test? How did it turn out.

TAMMY BROUSSEAU, MISSING GIRLS` AUNT (via telephone): Jane, that`s correct. Misty has given that information that she passed the polygraph test with no problems at all. She was given a UA to make sure there was absolutely nothing in her system. She was not under the influence of anything. And the polygraph test came out showing that she passed entirely. No problems at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about --

BROUSSEAU: Go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about Dan? You`re looking at Dan right there. That`s the father of missing Lyric. What about him?

BROUSSEAU: Dan as well took a second polygraph test. Also was UA`d and his UA was clean. He cooperated 100 percent. So now all family members are on board and have cooperated 100 percent.

Our focus now is -- yes, let`s put it on the girls and let`s move on. Let`s ask this person who has our children, please release them. Bring them home. Let them go. We don`t care where. Drop them off at a gas station. Just see it in your heart to let our girls come home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tammy, how do cops know that these girls are alive? What`s your theory? Who has them?

BROUSSEAU: Here`s my theory. I don`t know who has them. My only guess is, you know, from watching past situations, you know, where it`s somebody who knew the area well, somebody who may have been watching them, you know, that day for a period of time that day. We don`t know truly who has them.

Do we know whether they`re alive or not? The answer to that is, no, none of us do know. Not even the Evansdale police or the FBI. We`re all going on the hopes that, yes, our girls are alive. We want to continue to believe that they`re alive and they`re going to be returned home to us alive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops are focusing on new leads. They say they want to talk to a boater. We`ve got some shots of boaters. Somebody was on the lake boating around in one of those little tiny boats. What do you know about that? Who is this individual?

BROUSSEAU: I don`t know who that individual is. I was on scene prior to the Evansdale police showing up. And I was on scene before the Waterloo Sheriff`s Department showed up. I had a gut feeling to go there and look for my nieces.

So my mother and I and the Collins family, Little Boy Kelly (ph), we all went to Myers Lake. I jumped out and started asking random people. One man said yes, he had seen the description of those girls on the bike trail going west. It`s a small lake. The bike trail wraps around small -- it`s not real huge. And within 20 minutes of us standing there, Evansdale police and Waterloo Sheriff`s Department were on the bike trail with their vehicles, went around to that side, located the bicycles and Elizabeth`s purse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What in the world is going on with the Jackson family? The battle over Michael`s will, the disappearance of Katherine, and there was allegedly a physical altercation between Janet Jackson and Michael`s daughter, Paris? Really?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is going on in the Jackson family?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is with going on with the Jackson family?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First the disappearance of Michael Jackson`s mother Katherine. Now we have new video that appears to show a scuffle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff`s deputies showed up at the home of Michael Jackson`s mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Janet Jackson confronting Michael`s daughter Paris and it looks like Janet is going for Paris`s cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that we have plenty of drama, Mike, chaos, dysfunction -- sadly all things that we really come to expect from the Jacksons for so long now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Jackson`s family at war, at the heart of it - - money. Michael`s siblings challenging his will, they were left out of it. Here`s who`s in -- Michael`s Mom Katherine, and the three kids, Paris, Prince, Blanket. And here`s who allegedly want it -- four of Michael`s siblings, Rebbie, Jermaine, Randy, Janet.

The battle began when they accused their mom Katherine -- by the way of having a mini-stroke. Now they say she is somewhere in Arizona but police can`t find her. Katherine`s lawyers want the FBO involved.

Marlon Jackson says he isn`t allowed to see his mom. Watch this from the "Insider".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARLON JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: We have been told that our mother is safe. She`s doing well, but we have not spoken with her. We have not talked with her. And I don`t know where my mother -- I don`t know where my mother is. All I know is she`s in Arizona, and whatever doctors say I can`t talk to my mother, you call me.

I`m sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Most incredible of all, today sheriff`s deputies were called after a scuffle ensued between Janet and Paris. Janet and Randy allegedly burst through the gates of Katherine`s home. This surveillance video shows Janet Jackson apparently -- that`s right, Janet Jackson apparently trying to snatch Paris`s cell phone. Unbelievable.

That cell phone is Paris` lifeline to the world. She has been tweeting to the world about her grandmother being missing.

A.J. Hammer, what do you make of this? It`s astounding. Look what she`s saying, "nine days and counting".

A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST: Yes. It`s particularly astounding that Janet Jackson is so involved here because Jane, what`s the one thing we talked about after Michael Jackson passed away.

Repeatedly, we talked about certainly the amount of debt he was in. We talked about how much his estate was setting up to make after his death. Hundreds of millions of dollars have come into the Jackson estate. And those siblings that you mentioned all left out of it. Janet Jackson not a part of it.

But that confuses me because Janet does all right. The fact that the brothers are involved -- that doesn`t surprise me as much, it`s interesting and strange. And I can`t make sense of Janet trying to snatch the cell phone away from Paris and then trying to keep them from the grandmother, or at least having communication.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do find it very bizarre that Janet`s involved in this. But as far as snatching the cell phone, it makes perfect sense. Paris, who knows what could happen to her, she`s tweeting to the world and that`s why she`s got power, because Paris is a good tweeter and she`s tweeting to the world exactly what`s happening.

And join A.J. for much more on the Jackson family fight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(JANET JACKSON MUSIC VIDEO)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A wild family feud involving the Jacksons -- we`re going to show you this video again. Paris and Janet purportedly in a battle where Janet purportedly tried to snatch Paris`s cell phone. Paris has been tweeting to the world saying hey, this is not right what`s happening here.

Alan Duke, CNNWire entertainment editor, you have new information. Bring it to us.

ALAN DUKE, CNNWIRE ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR: Well, the basic bottom line here actually, Jane is if you`re in a Twitter battle with a girl who loves her grandma and has 500,000 Twitter followers, you`re not going to win. Other than that, I think that`s the bottom line here.

And the question is when is grandma going to call home?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And where is grandma? Why is she being kept away from the rest of the world? Dylan Howard, Celeb Buzz, editor in chief; what do you know? You`ve got new information.

DYLAN HOWARD, CELEB BUZZ, EDITOR IN CHIEF: Well, this is all about money Jane. Three distinct camps: you have Katherine Jackson who could be swayed one way or another. Does she continue to receive the dividend from the estate, Camp Two; or does she support Camp Three, the siblings that were saying they were left out of Michael Jackson`s last will and estate.

That is being challenged and will continue to be challenged. But again, this is a family imploding as we speak. And the breaking news at this hour, Tito Jackson, who`s one of those five signatures on that letter has seemingly walked away from that group.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what I see is a literal divide and conquer. Katherine, who is the guardian of the kids is off in Arizona. Then you see Janet and Randy approach Paris -- there you go --0 and they`re trying to essentially take her cell phone away. It`s absolutely extraordinary.

And let me tell you, don`t underestimate Paris, she`s 14 going on 40. No fool.

Nancy next.

END