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Nancy Grace

Pregnant Phoenix Woman Murdered, Burned

Aired July 24, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: And breaking news tonight, as we go live to Phoenix. A young mother nine months pregnant, about to give birth to her second child. But it all comes to a tragic end. Before she gets to lay eyes on her new baby, her live-in boyfriend reports coming home from errands to find their apartment up in flames, his 21-year-old pregnant girlfriend still inside.

The gruesome scene quickly becomes suspicious when investigators arrive to find the fire contained only to the couple`s bedroom and the victim bound with duct tape and handcuffs. Investigators now say it`s murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unthinkable!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pregnant woman was handcuffed, gagged and then set on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim, Shaniqua Hall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police would find Hall duct-taped, bound and burned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murdering her!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: it brings tears to my eyes. Nobody deserves to die like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boyfriend, this man, Dwandarrius Robinson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Robinson denies having anything to do with her murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly claims he ran an errand. When he returned, found the home in flames and calls police!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they have evidence against him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He purchased duct tape just a few hours prior to the homicide, along with an accelerant, a lighter fluid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To hear that someone took a child`s life (INAUDIBLE) That`s really hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was due to give birth in just days, but the 21-year-old mom never makes it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And good evening, everybody. I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.

A young mother, just days from giving birth to her second child, found burned to death in her own home. Her suspicious death is now a homicide.

For the very latest, let`s go to Phoenix and Matthew Hendley. He`s a staff writer with "The Phoenix New Times." Matthew, take us through this terrible story from the beginning.

MATTHEW HENDLEY, "PHOENIX NEW TIMES" (via telephone): Hi. Well, you know, Dwandarrius comes home, claims he sees the windows thick with smoke. He calls 911 to report the fire, says he was unsure if his pregnant girlfriend was inside the apartment but didn`t want to check because, quote, "he feared being burned and leaving his children orphaned." So he sat in his car in the air-conditioning while police arrived. Fire personnel found Shaniqua in her bedroom, bound and on fire.

COSBY: You know, Debra Mark, anchor, talk radio KABC, when you hear this story and you just heard what Matthew said -- wait a minute -- right away, you go, Wait a minute, there`s a problem. She`s burning inside. She`s pregnant. His child -- this is his live-in girlfriend -- and he`s sitting outside in an air-conditioned vehicle, Debra?

DEBRA MARK, TALKRADIO 790 KABC: Yes. It sounds a little ridiculous, doesn`t it?

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY: ... beyond ridiculous! It sounds disgusting!

MARK: It is very disturbing why you wouldn`t want to go in and see. He`s saying that he didn`t know that his pregnant girlfriend -- who was nine months pregnant, by the way, about to deliver their baby. This is his child, as well. And he`s with their 2-year-old daughter. He decides that he`s not going to go in and check things out. He`s going to stay and wait around.

COSBY: What a man. Debra Mark, you know, when you hear this story, too -- walk us through what authorities -- he calls 911. We know authorities get there. Describe the just horrific scene that authorities walk in on, Debra.

MARK: Authorities go into the bedroom, and they find this woman on fire. When they put out the fire, they find that she is bound and she is gagged. She was lit on fire. And we still don`t know exactly what the cause of death is. Was she killed before she was lit on fire? We don`t know.

COSBY: Matthew Hendley, where was she bound? Where was she gagged? Can you sort of describe everything for us? Where were her feet? Where were her hands, Matthew?

HENDLEY: Sure. She had her hands handcuffed behind her back. She had her feet bound with duct tape. And there were also strips of duct tape covering her eyes. And when she was found, she was found between the bed and the wall of her bedroom.

COSBY: Between the bed and the wall. What about damage to the rest of the house -- as we`re looking at a floor plan here? Was there a fire anywhere else, Matthew? Because that`s a little strange.

HENDLEY: There was not because he had closed the door to the bedroom, didn`t allow oxygen to get in the bedroom. So the fire was kind of contained to that one area of the apartment.

COSBY: And was there accelerant? Was there anything placed on her to sort of start this fire, Matthew? What do we know about that?

HENDLEY: Police say yes, there was an accelerant used to start that fire.

COSBY: Let`s go, if we could, to Sergeant Trent Crump with the Phoenix Police Department. He`s the spokesperson there. Sergeant Crump, thank you, first of all, for being with us. I know you`re in the middle of all of this.

SGT. TRENT CRUMP, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Thank you.

COSBY: Describe, if you could -- I understand there was accelerant used on this poor, poor woman. Can you describe sort of what accelerant it was? Do you know what it was at this point?

CRUMP: Well, we`re alleging at this point that it is a lighter fluid. The suspect, during an interview, indicated to us that a couple hours before this homicide had taken place, that at a store nearby, he had gone and purchased two rolls of duct tape and a bottle of lighter fluid. Some of that evidence was recovered. And to date, some of it hasn`t been. Specifically, the bottle of lighter fluid was not recovered. But with the use of our crime lab -- and at least at the scene, the fire department had an accelerant detection dog -- we were able to determine that an accelerant was used.

COSBY: One of the things I think is striking -- and I`m sure, obviously, it alerted you guys, Sergeant Crump, right away -- he`s sitting there in this air-conditioned SUV, as we`re hearing. She`s inside dying.

And also, I understand there were some reports, too, that he claimed he saw smoke and that`s when he called, you know, 911, but then what, your officers didn`t see smoke from the outside? There are a lot of questionable things here.

CRUMP: Yes, and you know, that`s what really led us to start looking at him in the first place. We`re at this scene, and as he`s telling us that he didn`t enter this apartment, which we can all second-guess and Monday morning-quarterback at this point -- but understand that when he tells us that he doesn`t enter because he smells smoke and because he can see the fire inside the unit -- you have to realize that this is something that our officers didn`t see, that the fire department doesn`t see until we enter the home.

And also, about an hour before this incident, we had residents that were calling the management company because of a smoke or a fire alarm. These are individuals who were checking that particular building and who couldn`t see or hear, smell this smoke. And so right from the get-go, the story had problems.

COSBY: So right away, you go, OK, there`s a lot of questionable things here. What about neighbors? What did neighbors see? You talked about that they heard this fire alarm. Did they see anything suspicious? Did they see him doing anything kind of strange earlier in the day, Sergeant Crump?

CRUMP: Well, no, not specifically that relates to that. I mean, he had indicated that he was visiting with some neighbors earlier in the day, but he didn`t get off work until about 1:00 o`clock that afternoon, and now we`re out there now in the, you know, 4:00 or 5:00 o`clock hour.

And so during part of that time, he`s alleging that he was at a Burger King, and at another part of the time, we know that he`s over buying these items that were used in this homicide.

But we`re not getting information from neighbors, other than hearing the smoke detector or the fire alarm that was going off, that they knew of or heard anything that would lead them to believe what had occurred in that apartment.

COSBY: And Debra Mark, kind of describe the apartment complex, if you could. Are the neighbors close by? Would they have seen if suddenly a fire started? And again, I think it`s important to highlight the fires only seem to be on her, where she is, not the rest of the apartment, right, Debra?

MARK: That`s right, Rita. The fire was contained in the bedroom. And neighbors are shocked. This is a quiet neighborhood. They can`t believe that something like this would happen in their neck of the woods. And they didn`t smell the smoke. They did hear the fire alarm. But they`re shocked. It`s such a shocking, sad story, Rita.

COSBY: It is. It`s horrific. And here`s this woman who had her whole life ahead of her, 21 years old, about to give birth, and this guy`s sitting in an air-conditioned SUV.

Sergeant Crump, what else did you find inside that apartment, what other pieces of evidence, and also tying to this guy?

CRUMP: Yes. In an interview that he did with us that he voluntarily came in and sat down with our detectives, had told us that he had purchased this duct tape, that he had purchased this lighter fluid.

We also served a court order to take his clothes because we`ll be checking those to see if there is accelerant on them. As he -- as that is going on and we take his clothes from him, we also determined that he has a handcuff key in his pocket.

COSBY: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Sergeant, he`s got a handcuff key in his pocket, and she`s handcuffed, correct?

CRUMP: Yes, he does. Now, understand he is a security guard, a local security guard for a company out here, and so...

COSBY: This guy`s a security guard in the middle of all this!

CRUMP: Right. And so, you know, one can say that the reasoning -- I mean, all of this certainly adds up to our cause and probable cause for making the arrest. But yes, we still have the handcuff key in his pocket, and she is -- as it was described earlier by Matthew, she is handcuffed still when we arrive.

COSBY: Does the handcuff key match the handcuffs? Do we know if it`s the matching one to the handcuff, Sergeant?

CRUMP: Yes, those are always the same. And so the handcuff keys are very...

COSBY: So generic.

CRUMP: Right.

COSBY: So it`s fitting (ph).

CRUMP: Right. Mine would open the same ones. And so it`s really the totality of what we`re talking about, when you take all of these things into consideration. You have to realize, too, that we have no witnesses in the apartments or anyplace else that put her with anybody else except for him a few hours before this. And so there are several things that have led into our probable cause in this arrest.

COSBY: OK, so now, he says, OK, I`m going out to the store, I`m going to buy these items -- his reason is, again, Sergeant Crump, the reason he`s going, happens to be buying on those days that -- those items?

CRUMP: Yes. Well, sure. He indicates that he was working on some sort of box project, and for the -- he needed the tape for that. But ultimately, this tape ends up in a duffel bag that he tells us is his that we find inside the home. And this one roll of the duct tape was almost completely used up. The other was still unopened. And the lighter fluid was going to be for a weekend barbecue that he was going to have to supposedly celebrate the birth of the child.

COSBY: So -- and do we know if it`s the same duct tape? And I don`t know how seriously burned the body, the area was, Sergeant, but is there enough to get evidence off of that duct tape and to be able to tie it to be the same type of duct tape?

CRUMP: You know, I can`t answer that yet. It certainly matched it. And he had bought two different types of duct tape, and the duct tape that was in his bag and was wrapped around here were very similar. We`ll have to wait for lab analysis to be able to tell us if those are one and the same, if we`re going to be able to do that. And I don`t know if we have the answer to that yet.

COSBY: Debra Mark, do we have anyone who says that they were with him, that -- you know, his alibi?

MARK: No. But we do know, Rita, that apparently, he got into a little argument with his girlfriend over her leaving or wanting to leave a maternity note for her employer. And he called her lazy. But that`s all we do know.

COSBY: Do we know if, indeed, there was anybody with him at the time when he says he was doing these errands, doing these visits to friends? Do we have any other back-up person who claims they can -- were with him at the time, Debra?

MARK: Well, he was with his 2-year-old daughter at the time. And I`m not exactly sure if authorities are talking or letting us know who he was with, but he did go and visit neighbors. He said that he owed a $5 marijuana debt, so he had to go pay for that. And then of course...

COSBY: Wa-wa-wait! A $5...

MARK: ... he went to Burger King...

COSBY: He`s out doing -- paying off a $5 drug deal debt, or something, and his wife is burning inside the place?

MARK: Yes, he had to go pay off this $5 marijuana debt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dwandarrius Robinson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just abhorrent and evil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim, Shaniqua Hall, bound at the head, mouth and feet by duct tape, then set on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could just feel the tension in a room between the two of them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Robinson denies having anything to do with her murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Shaniqua Hall -- here she is, 21 years old. She`s about to give birth, literally weeks away. And now she is found handcuffed, she is found gagged and burned to death, and her boyfriend charged with two counts of murder for her and also the baby she was about to give birth to.

Let`s go, if we could, to Dr. Joye Carter, M.D., chief forensic pathologist with Marion County, Indiana, also the author of "Speak for the Dead." (SIC) When you hear this, Doctor, what I think is just so horrible - - and based on the timeline that we just heard from Sergeant Crump, it sounds like she may have been burned alive, that she died from the flames. Can you determine that forensically?

DR. JOYE M. CARTER, CHIEF FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MARION CTY, IN (via telephone): Yes. You`re definitely looking for signs of inhalation of the material that was used to cause her to die, to burn, and find the heat artifacts in her nose or in her mouth. They`ll be looking at the respiratory tract to see if there`s any soot down where she would have breathed that in. (INAUDIBLE) person being burned alive.

COSBY: And here`s the baby inside. She obviously dies. The baby dies. What sort of how does that work? When someone is pregnant, is there something different that happens physiologically?

CARTER: Well, when a woman is pregnant, the fetus is completely dependent on the woman`s circulating blood to get oxygen. So if the mother dies, the fetus dies.

COSBY: It is just so heart-breaking to hear. Lisa Lockwood, former police detector (SIC), when you hear this, Lisa -- the story just breaks my heart. Here she is weeks away, burned alive with her baby inside of her.

LISA LOCKWOOD, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE: Exactly. And everything that Sergeant Crump had said earlier, I completely corroborate with because here you have an individual who was on the scene, who decided not to go in and save his family. When you`re in a loving marriage or a loving situation, your significant other will do any and everything to pound that door down and get in there and attempt save the person that they love...

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY: ... the alarm bells go off. She`s burning inside and he`s sitting there all cozy in her air-conditioned vehicle! It`s disgusting, Lisa!

LOCKWOOD: You`re exactly right. They`ve got the right person. They`ve got the perfect charges for it. And it`s just a matter of time for all of the evidence to come through and get this guy convicted.

COSBY: Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, when you hear all of this, too, even from a psychological perspective -- the guy`s sitting out there. She`s burning inside. He makes no attempt, from what they gather, to go inside. And then where he`s watching, apparently, the apartment -- you`re sitting there, your -- you know, your girlfriend`s inside. This is the mother of your child, about to give birth to your second child, and you`re sitting outside an apartment in an area not in view of the apartment! It doesn`t get almost any worse! What do you think?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Rita, the callousness of that is absolutely incredible. And assuming this is the perpetrator, it illustrates beautifully the personality trait that is at the core of all of these such cases, which is narcissism. Whatever this person, this perpetrator thought that he was escaping from or whatever he thought that he was gaining, clearly, he thought that he was entitled to escape it or gain it at the expense of two lives. It doesn`t get much more narcissistic than that, Rita.

COSBY: You know, Dr. Russell, I got to ask you, one of the things I think is so troubling, also, about the story -- I mean, it just gets worse and worse -- whoever did this to her -- and again, he is at this point saying he didn`t do it, even though the cops seem like they`re very sure they got the guy -- whoever did this to her -- her eyes are covered with duct tape. Why would somebody do that, especially if it`s someone who knows her?

RUSSELL: Well, who knows, Rita? It`s very hard for people who think rationally and have empathy for others, like you and I, to understand the mind of somebody that sadistic and that callous. Perhaps he didn`t want her to see what was coming, for some reason. Maybe he was telling her that all he was going to do was bind her and blindfold her and leave her there or something, and if she would just cooperate, everything would turn out fine. We`ve heard that things like that have happened sometimes.

COSBY: Lisa Lockwood, what do you make of that? Why (ph) do you make of the perpetrator, if it`s him -- why would he do that to her- first of all, I mean, why would you do any of this -- but cover her eyes?

LOCKWOOD: You know, I completely agree with the other correspondent because here you have an individual who definitely premeditated this. So possibly, he didn`t want her to see what was coming. I completely agree with that. Let me make sure that she`s not aware prior to her being gagged, that sort of thing, and didn`t want her to actually see it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim, Shaniqua Hall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Found murdered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The nature of the crime especially heinous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her hands bound by a pair of handcuffs, according to police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) being burned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So close to giving birth to a child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her unborn child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have serious concern for community safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Let`s go straight out to Sergeant Trent Crump with the Phoenix Police Department.

Sergeant, one of the things we`re hearing is this guy`s alibi. Again, here it is, his girlfriend, live-in girlfriend, pregnant. She is gagged, burned to death. He`s outside in his air-conditioned vehicle, which I just -- the whole thing is just so disgusting. But he claims he`s gone.

And one of the things I think is so bizarre, he`s, what, making some $5 payoff on a drug deal? Do we have anybody who backs up this story? Do you pull in a drug dealer? What do you do at this point.

CRUMP: Well, we do believe that he left. We`re alleging that in this particular case, he set this fire and then he left. And so we have spoke with witnesses. We certainly have gone out -- trust me when I say that we have locked in stories on those others. And it has been helpful to talk to them because it has -- it has, you know, poked holes in his story, if you will, in this particular case.

COSBY: Yes, I would think, poking holes left and right.

Let`s go to Jackie from Michigan, who`s on the line. Jackie, what`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. A couple comments, a couple questions. First, my condolences to the family. This is horrific. And I do want to say that (INAUDIBLE) the Phoenix Police Department are amazing because we had a double homicide in `99, and they were amazing to catch him. So have faith.

But question is -- one was answered about was there smoke inhalation. Secondly, this photo that keeps popping up -- did he post that, like, on Facebook? And using the daughter -- obviously, he wanted her out, but who takes a daughter to a drug deal? (INAUDIBLE) zero.

COSBY: Lots of questions. Great questions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say her 21-year-old boyfriend allegedly sets her on fire!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he looked just abhorrent and evil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is denying involvement in the homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Documents reveal the victim bound at the head, mouth and feet by duct tape!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace.

A woman who`s about to give birth to her second child just a few weeks away, and now she ends up handcuffed, gagged, and also burned to death.

Let`s go to Debra Mark. She`s an anchor and talk radio host with KABC.

Debra, I got to ask you. Tell us what happened and who this perpetrator is?

DEBRA MARK, ANCHOR, TALKRADIO 790 KABC: Her boyfriend is 21-year-old Juan Darius Robinson. And they have a 2-year-old together. And Shaniqua was nine months pregnant, about to give birth to their child in just a matter of a couple of weeks.

And apparently, Rita, they had kind of a tumultuous relationship. Family members of Shaniqua say that they were often fighting about money problems. So they -- it doesn`t appear that they were this happy couple.

COSBY: And the other thing, Sergeant Trent Crump with the Phoenix Police Department, one of our callers was asking, there`s this photo of him, he`s shirtless, that`s from his Facebook, he`s taking his 2-year-old daughter. He`s taking his 2-year-old daughter, by his own alibi, right, to a drug dealer? Is that correct?

SGT. TRENT CRUMP, PHOENIX POLICE DEPT. SPOKESMAN: Yes, and I haven`t seen the photo that they`re talking about. But yes, you know, that tells you the caliber of the person that we`re dealing with in this particular case. And so -- and even when we talk about this and we`re talking about premeditated murder in this particular case, we`re not sure that we know the motive behind why he did what he did.

COSBY: Yes, there are a lot of questions.

Let`s go to Susan Moss, family law attorney.

When you hear all this, doesn`t it make you sick, Susan?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Absolutely. That last caller asked what type of idiot takes a 2-year-old to a drug deal, well the same type of idiot who`s caught with keys to handcuffs, with duct tape, with a lighter fluid -- you know, receipt that he actually purchased. This guy is 50 shades of stupid, but what really gets me, what really gets me is his comment. I didn`t go into the burning building because I didn`t want my kids to be an orphan.

Well, how did he know that the mom was dead? Perhaps because he already killed her.

COSBY: It makes you sick in every shape and form. And, Susan, when you hear this, he`s sitting outside in an air-conditioned, and where he`s watching, Susan, he`s not even watching in view of the apartment. What kind of a coward and what kind of a pathetic creature, at minimum, is this man?

MOSS: I mean you listen to some of his other comments. He`s saying that this woman, the mother of his kids is lazy, I don`t know, she`s still working at nine months pregnant. That doesn`t seem too lazy to me.

COSBY: Right. No, it sure doesn`t. It is just despicable.

Let`s go to Alan Ripka, Kirby Clements, defense attorneys.

Alan Ripka, defend this creep.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all there are gaping holes in this case. Gaping holes. And --

COSBY: Where -- gaping holes, gaping holes that there`s --

RIPKA: And I`ll tell you what they are.

COSBY: Gaping holes that there`s not a picture of him actually dousing the lighter fluid?

RIPKA: No, not a picture. No. Number one.

COSBY: What else? Give me -- give it to me?

RIPKA: No history of -- no history of violence. Number two, no one heard any fighting --

COSBY: Well, all right, all right. I have a question, Alan.

RIPKA: Yes.

COSBY: No history of violence that we know of. People do not always report domestic abuse. You know that, Alan.

RIPKA: Well, but as of now there are no calls for domestic violence and there`s no history, no history of violence. Secondly --

COSBY: So, Alan, wait a minute. Alan, he just happens to have the keys, he just happens to have the lighter fluid. Just happens to have the duct tape. Cops arrest him within 24 hours, he`s not even man enough to go in and save her in the burning house.

RIPKA: And no one hears -- and no one hears any fighting whatsoever. No one hears a struggle. There`s nothing in the apartment that showed there was a struggle.

COSBY: He just happens to -- yes, because you know what? She knew him. She knew him. She trusted this guy.

RIPKA: So she let -- she let him handcuff her and tape her up and there was no fighting, no yelling, while the 2-year-old kid is in the apartment. You believe that?

COSBY: They knew each other, Alan, they knew each other. You and I have covered crazier cases before. They knew each other.

RIPKA: What about the child?

COSBY: What --

RIPKA: I don`t believe that child was in that apartment when that happened. And that takes him out of the apartment.

COSBY: So what do you think? You think he just -- all this circumstantial evidence, is that what you`re going to tell me, Alan? All this circumstantial -- overwhelming evidence, Alan. The key happens to fit. He happens to buy the duct tape and someone happens to go in right when he leaves.

RIPKA: There have been --

COSBY: Awfully convenient, don`t you think, Alan?

RIPKA: There have been more obvious -- there have been more obvious cases where people have wound up being innocent. You have to have proof and I`m indicating to you the reason why there are holes.

COSBY: So this is what -- this is Mary Poppins? This is Mary Poppins who just happens to walk away, he`s totally framed? Someone put the key in his pocket? Are you going to tell me that, Alan?

RIPKA: It could be -- it could have been a revenge for something he did to something else. And his indication that he had debts for drugs. There could have been other drug dealers.

COSBY: Yes, big money, big money.

You know, Kirby Clements, what, $5 drug deal -- first of all, what kind of guy takes his daughter to a $5 drug deal? You know, I mean, this is a real sophisticated guy. Just one of the dumbest criminals I`ve ever heard of.

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, he may be dumb, he may be a lot of things, not a good dad, but that doesn`t make him a murderer. And --

COSBY: Not a good dad? How about the worst dad of the year? I`ll give him that award, Kirby.

CLEMENTS: Well, no, there are plenty of other guys that are running for that. But I`ll tell you, Alan is on to something, there`s no indication that he had any injuries to his body, no scratches, no scrapes. Nothing to show that he was in a struggle.

COSBY: Because this poor woman was helpless, defenseless. And what a coincidence --

CLEMENTS: Well, that`s made up.

COSBY: The body just gets burned and right now we don`t know of anybody who was angry at her. Nobody was out to get her.

CLEMENTS: We know -- we know that he had a debt to drug dealers.

COSBY: And he`s not even watching. What -- he just happens to be walking down -- he happens to be parked away from the house. Your wife is burning inside. You describe that for me, Kirby. What kind of a human being, not just a husband, what kind of a human being --

CLEMENTS: No one -- he doesn`t know she was burning.

COSBY: He said, my -- I don`t want to be orphan, that`s why I didn`t -- I didn`t want to have the child without a father. That`s why I didn`t go inside.

CLEMENTS: So you presume he used the word orphan correctly?

COSBY: And I think, Susan, Susan -- yes, that`s what the cops are saying.

CLEMENTS: No, he may have misused that word.

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY: Very -- Susan, Susan? Very perceptive.

MOSS: Don`t worry. This guy is such an idiot, when they test his clothing, you think there`s not going to be accelerant? You think he`s not going to have DNA on that duct tape? I mean why does somebody -- why would another type of criminal put duct tape over the eyes? Because they knew her. They had an intimate relation with her and they were putting duct tape probably to (INAUDIBLE) their own guilt.

I mean we`ve just begun collecting the evidence and it`s already strong.

COSBY: The other thing, too, you guys, one thing we have not brought up, there was also a condom, a used condom found. What do you make of that, Susan Moss, and apparently he said we did have sex before we left. I don`t -- I still don`t kind of understand why the use a condom. She is pregnant. Again she`s nine months pregnant, this is girlfriend. Explain that one, Susan.

MOSS: I mean, I don`t know but I can wonder, what if they had relations and she didn`t want to. What if that was the beginning of the end for her and they got into a fight and it was really violent? What if she died before he started to bound her and that`s why you didn`t hear any screams?

I mean there are a lot of unanswered questions about it. But what we do know is that the way she died, the way she died, being duct taped, you know, with tape that he bought, being handcuffed, which will probably end up being his handcuffs, it all point to one person, this guy. The last person whom she was seen with.

COSBY: Robert Rowe, arson investigator, you`re also the president of Pyrocop. Tell us also what you can glean from the scene. All this evidence, OK, he`s sitting outside, the key is there, you got the duct tape, I assume there`s probably maybe some fingerprints possibly still on that duct tape. You`ve got the duct tape missing in his bag. If somebody was framing him, boy, they did a good job of framing him.

ROBERT ROWE, ARSON INVESTIGATOR, PRESIDENT, PYROCOP, INC.: Yes, you know, the thing is that when an investigator starts his case he has to do it methodical, and so regardless of the emotions that are involved, you have to be on point, you have to make sure you collect every piece of evidence, you have to make sure that it`s processed properly. You have to make sure you document your fire scenes, that you know your fire pattern, you know how the fire started.

It takes -- I takes a lot of skill, it takes a lot of patience. So setting aside the emotion, you really have to just bury into this case and make sure you`ve got everything and to cross all your T`s and dot your I`s.

COSBY: Yvette Cade, your husband poured liquid on you. You survived. You`re a real hero. But you went through this. When you -- when you hear this story of what this poor woman went through, it just must make you sick.

YVETTE CADE, BURN VICTIM AND ADVOCATE: It does and it`s very saddening to me because, number one, I hear two men defending this man, but if you were set on fire, bound, with your eyes duct taped, and gagged, this was so nobody could hear. And maybe he was saying things to her that would hurt her. So that lets me know that he`s a small time terrorist. And he doesn`t have any -- he has no care in life.

And then he wanted to say he didn`t do it, my ex-husband did the same thing. He came in, and he said he was in the store paying the bill and I just -- I don`t, I don`t understand people like that.

COSBY: I don`t either. I don`t even consider them human beings, it`s so shameful.

I want to talk more with you, Yvette. But first let`s go to the NANCY GRACE family album. It is back showcasing your photos from the iReport. Here is the Cunningham family from Pennsylvania. Five and six-year-old Kamani (ph) and also Maya. They love dancing, modeling, acting and singing.

Be sure to share your photos through the iReport family album at hlnTV.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy`s family album.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The pregnant woman was handcuffed, gagged, and set on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Along with an accelerant, a lighter fluid.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was due to give birth in just days.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police would find Hall duct taped and burned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two counts of murder in the first-degree, premeditated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just abhorrent and evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And 21-year-old Shaniqua Hall found burned to death. They believe she was burned alive. And the perp, the guy who`s accused of it all is her live-in boyfriend, who`s sitting outside, apparently calls 911 and then when cops come, he`s not running in to save his live-in girlfriend, this woman who he`s been with for years, this is their second child together. She`s inside burning to death, he`s outside in an air- conditioned SUV. And you hear these horrible stories time and time again.

I want to bring back Yvette Cade, she`s a burn victim and also an advocate. And when you hear these stories, and people say, you know, we had the defense attorneys on a little bit ago. What really gets me angry when they say oh, well, they didn`t report domestic violence before, there were no history, you don`t always report domestic violence. It`s still something very much that people keep inside.

That`s not a tell-tale sign. And even in your case, Yvette, and you are such a hero after everything you went through with your husband, and we`re seeing some of the video from this, here it is. You tried to get an extension, right? You had a history, and yet you didn`t get it, it doesn`t necessarily saved anyone?

CADE: It doesn`t. And just because she -- he didn`t have any bruises doesn`t mean that she didn`t have any bruises, so I can`t wait for the autopsy report and I hope that the death penalty is available in Phoenix, Arizona.

It was two lives that could have been saved. He had a chance to stop before he went to the gas station. To get the accelerant, he could have -- he went to two places to get the duct tape and he came back and he watched, he knew that the young lady was in there. He had so many chances to save her life and he did not.

And generally, I`m against putting people to death, but a person like that, he needs -- he needs -- I don`t believe we need to waste our tax dollars.

COSBY: You know, Susan Moss, when you hear this story, and hear Yvette Cade, a survivor, and truly a miracle that she survived this attack, you know, by her husband, and this just horrible ordeal, coming out -- and I give her so much credit for coming out and talking about it.

Susan, when you hear this, this is a death penalty eligible case. They haven`t said whether they`re going to go for it. But two deaths, he`s sitting outside. I mean this is just -- this is just a despicable human being. If it turns out that he did it, and right now it looks like they`ve got a lot of evidence, this guy is in big trouble.

MOSS: Absolutely. And there is clear premeditation. Let`s look at the facts. He went out to the store and bought the duct tape. He went out to the store and bought the lighter fluid, the accelerant. He brought those items home and when he brought those items home, if convicted, apparently he used them to kill his -- the mother of his two children. I mean how absolutely outrageous. And he had every opportunity to stop it from happening.

You heard earlier from some of the guests that the fire didn`t go past that one room. So he had plenty of time to stop it. There wasn`t a lot of oxygen so that the fire and the flames weren`t quickly accelerating. He could have stopped it, he could have used water, he could have used a towel, he could have used anything. But instead, this coward, he went to pay a drug deal? He went then to Burger King? Could you imagine sitting at Burger King eating a Whopper knowing --

COSBY: It is -- the whole thing is -- again, everybody, he has not been convicted yet, but it sure stinks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY: Well, they seemed like a happy couple. They`re about to have their second child just a few weeks away, and now, she`s found handcuffed, gagged, and burned to death, and he`s accused of two counts of murder, her and the baby.

Let`s go back to the defense attorneys, let`s go Alan Ripka, Kirby Clements.

You know, one of the things, guys, as I sit here and I think about this whole thing, he buys the duct tape. He says he goes to an Albertson across the street. After he takes his 2-year-old child to the drug dealer, OK? He says, OK, well, I bought the duct tape to do a box project. He`s a 21-year-old security guard. And then he goes and buys lighter fluid. Lighter fluid is found on her. That the accelerant. That burns her to death.

But when they say -- you know, you get charcoal like you would, because he says I got lighter fluid because I was doing a barbeque with friends later? Oh god, no, I didn`t get charcoal. Somehow I didn`t need when I burned my wife to death.

What do you make of that, Kirby?

CLEMENTS: Well, you know, number one, was there any charcoal that was available? We don`t know that, and his story may have problems, but at the end of the day you still have --

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY: Problem, Kirby? Kirby, you`ve got a tough case here.

CLEMENTS: No, I agree it`s a tough case, but tough and impossible are two different things. There are still opportunities for someone else to come and --

COSBY: Yes, I see -- yes, I`ve seen people who`ve been terribly guilty get off because of people like you.

CLEMENTS: And I have seen people who were innocent get convicted because of people like you. So come on.

COSBY: Yes, and you know what -- yes, you know what, I guess you put a little handcuff key in his pocket. I guess he hasn`t --

CLEMENTS: No. No.

COSBY: You know, I guess Martians came in there, too, Alan Ripka, right?

RIPKA: Well, look, if forensics shows that the lighter fluid was used, and the same duct tape was used --

COSBY: Right. And that`s what they`re saying. They`re saying right now it looks like they`re correlated.

RIPKA: Not yet. They haven`t tested it yet. And we didn`t get the results back.

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY: You know -- you know --

RIPKA: If it does -- look.

COSBY: Alan. You know they got cell phone records, too. You know he`s claiming he`s somewhere. They can probably put him. You would imagine they got him pretty quick, Alan.

RIPKA: Well, listen, if, in fact, it shows that those items were used, they have to put him in the apartment and they are going to have a tough time doing so. They`re going to have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY: And everybody, be sure to follow us on Facebook and Twitter.

Let`s go to Laurie from Iowa who`s on the line. Laurie, what`s your question?

LAURIE, CALLER FROM IOWA: I`ve got two quick questions. The first one is, did he take a scheduled work day off going to planning and premeditation?

COSBY: He did not. We understand -- well, actually, you know what, we don`t know that. Let me ask Debra Mark. Did he take any time off or did he have a regular schedule?

MARK: No, he --

COSBY: I understand regular schedule, right?

MARK: He -- he had a regular schedule. He left work around 1:00 and then he went to the store, he went to a local Albertson`s store to get that stuff.

COSBY: All right. Let me go to Laurie. Part two of your question, Laurie. Go ahead.

LAURIE: The other one is, did she have a restraining order on him? Was it her apartment and her car or did he just show up there?

COSBY: Debra, what`s the answers to those?

MARK: There is no restraining order and they both lived in that apartment together, Rita.

COSBY: The other thing I find wild, Debra, is apparently he saw the neighbors that day. What I think is interesting, she saw the neighbors, right, earlier that day and then he has sort of a very cool, calm behavior in front of the neighbors that makes a kind of a strange comment to one of them, too, correct?

MARK: Yes, he does. And as I said before, the family members of Shaniqua say that they were having arguments over financial problems. So you mentioned before that they appeared to be a happy couple because they have this 2-year-old daughter and they`re, you know, expecting a new baby, she was nine months pregnant, but apparently, they had some struggles and they did argue.

He said that they argued as well over some note. He called her lazy because she didn`t send a note to her employer about maternity leave.

COSBY: It is just -- the whole thing is just so disgusting. And obviously he`s got issues to pay off a drug dealer from a $5 drug deal. Tells cops this. It`s just so bizarre.

Lisa Lockwood, former police detective and author. When you hear this, the one thing I also wonder for cops to piece all this together, surveillance video. We haven`t talked about that, maybe there`s some very interesting things on surveillance tapes.

LISA LOCKWOOD, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE AND AUTHOR: Exactly. Exactly. They`re going to need to do that to put their timeline together. They`re going to be checking receipts, Burger King, Albertson`s, all the errands that he did that day. The comings and goings. People who witnessed him coming out of that apartment.

And we`re forgetting one thing. Motive is what they`re looking for right now. As they conduct their interviews, they`re going to try and ascertain whether or not he was having an affair because that`s the hugest motive for somebody who kills their significant other, and I think that`s going to be revealed.

COSBY: And Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, one of the leading causes sadly of pregnant women is murder. I mean this happens, why is it? Because it is getting close to delivery date?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think it`s because you`ve got people who see the writing on the wall that they`re going -- that they feel they`re getting locked into one life and they want to be in some other life, the other one said that there is often another woman in the mix. And if that`s the case, think the surviving child is lucky that she`s still alive.

COSBY: And tonight, everybody, let`s stop to remember Marine Lance Corporal Joshua Whittle, 20 years old from Downey, California. Killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Purple Heart, the Combat Action Ribbon and the National Defense Service Medal. An ultimate fighting fan, he loved adventure sports. His friends nicknamed him MD because he looked like Matt Damon.

He leaves behind her mother Crystal, stepfather, Carl, his brothers, Ryan, sister, Sharlene and Darlene.

Joshua Whittle, a true American hero.

And I want to thank all of you for your very kind words about the recent passing of my hero, my father, Lt. Richard Cosby. My father was a POW in World War II who was saved by American troops, and in his honor, we are raising money for the USO, helping wounded troops and their families.

Go to quiethero.org, you`ve got to click on the words "quiet hero" or click on the USO box there on quiethero.org. Be sure to say in memory of Richard Cosby.

And I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. Have a terrific evening, everybody. Dr. Drew is up next. So don`t touch that dial.

END