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Weighing Paul Ryan; Social Media Triggers New Trial; Police Say Handcuffed Man Shot Self in Head

Aired August 13, 2012 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, "CNN NEWSROOM": Thank you very much, Deb Feyerick. Very nice to see you.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It is officially 11:00 on the East Coast. It's 8:00 on the West Coast. Let's get right to it, shall we?

With the Romney/Ryan ticket now more than 48-hours old, both campaigns along with their surrogates and their supporters are still fixed on one big question, who the heck is this guy?

You've heard the Republicans call him a fearless defender of small government and fiscal discipline and the Democrats call him a reckless ideologue who'd punish the poor to help the rich.

But the reality is most of us Americans don't really even know him at all. Just last week our CNN/ORC poll found that 54 percent of us are unsure whether they like Paul Ryan or not.

Well, guess what? You're getting to get a heavy dose of who he is. Here's what we do know. The seven-term congressman and chairman of the House budget committee still lives in his hometown of Janesville, Wisconsin.

What a great shot of him with his family. He's a Green Bay Packers fan. He's a camper. He's a bow hunter. You've seen pictures of him with a deer.

And his wife, Janna, has a law degree from George Washington University, a smart cookie. She decided to stay at home to raise their kids. They are young, seven, nine, and 10, and that is officially a Mitt-ful.

But Paul Ryan, what about him and his background? He's young. Joining me now is CNN political editor, young Paul Steinhauser who's in Washington. Nice to see you, Paul.

I've had such a great weekend watching TV. I hate to say it, but I was glued from Friday night on when the rumblings were out that he was the pick. I have had a fascination with him. I have to admit. The blue eyes got me at the beginning, the fabulous hair, and then the plan had me hooked on him.

But now, I'm finding out so much more about his background. This dude has been at the job a long time.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: He sure has. You know, he's been portrayed, I guess, since Saturday when he was named the running mate as a creature of outside Washington.

But, Ashleigh, in a lot of ways, this man is a creature of Washington, coming right here to the nation's capital to work for Republican lawmakers in Congress soon after graduating college and spending about five years here before going back to Wisconsin and then, as you mentioned, at 28-years old, back in 1998, being elected to Congress, coming right back here, serving seven terms.

And jumping over a lot of people back a few years ago when he became the ranking Republican on the budget committee. Jumping over a lot of more senior Republicans and, of course, since 2011, thanks to those 2010 victories in the midterm elections when the Republicans stormed back and took control of the House, he's been the budget chairman.

And, of course, as you said, most Americans who do know something about him know about his plan, his House budget plan and how it would affect Medicare.

But you showed that poll number, Ashleigh. More than half the people we polled last week didn't know enough about Paul Ryan to form an opinion or didn't know him at all.

And you know what? Even among Republicans, his own party, that number was pretty close to 50 percent.

But, Ashleigh, that all changes now. I think a lot of people, come November 6th, will know a lot about Paul Ryan.

BANFIELD: Well, here's one of the things that -- I mean, he had me at hello with the fact that he was a bartender, once. And I have to admit ...

STEINHAUSER: What movie did you steal that from? Come on.

BANFIELD: Six years, I was a bartender and a cocktail waitress, getting myself through college and all the rest, so I ...

STEINHAUSER: We're learning a lot about you, right now.

BANFIELD: ... appreciate that -- there's so much more that you don't want to know about.

But the thing is, what I found fascinating was that as he was bartending on Capitol Hill when he had his first, you know, itty-bitty jobs and then started to really get some clout, one of the people I least expected him to get advice from was a big Democrat, Barney Frank.

STEINHAUSER: Yeah and this is fascinating because Barney Frank is vilified by so many Republicans. Barney Frank, of course, a long- time Congressman from Massachusetts, a progressive, a liberal, who is not running for re-election.

But Barney Frank giving him advice to just stick to a few big ideas, a few big issues and not be the expert on everything. And you know what? I think to a degree Paul Ryan taking that advice and one of the reasons why he rose so high so quickly on the budget committee -- and he is basically the spokesman for the Republican Party, at least for congressional Republicans -- when it comes to fiscal matters, when it comes to tax matters, cutting government spending.

And his plan, of course, last year creating so much of a controversy among so many Americans, but it's a plan that Republicans basically follow in lock-step behind, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, talk to me a little bit about his background where he's just a no-nonsense kind of guy. It turns out that, early days on the Hill, he slept in his office and maybe not so early days on the Hill, saving money and sleeping in his cramped quarters and spending a lot of time on his iPod. I'm not sure if it's because he loved Led Zeppelin so much or he just didn't want to answer questions from people like you and me.

STEINHAUSER: Yeah, and maybe that was a good distraction to keep him away from talking to media.

Everybody, now, has been looking into those early years on the Hill, first, as an intern and then working for congressional lawmakers, and then, of course, as congressman.

And, yeah, at first, he -- yeah, well, let's look here at some of the numbers. He was first elected in 1998 at 28-years old. You know, this is interesting. Ashleigh, last election, 2010, he won 68 percent of the vote in his district.

Guess what, though, the district seems to be not as conservative as him. In fact, President Obama slightly carried district by a small edge back in 2008.

Yeah, he is a fiscal hawk. We know that, but guess what, he did vote for TARP, which is the Wall Street bailouts and he voted for the auto bailouts, as well. Of course, auto jobs, pretty big in his district.

And, of course, we talked about, yes, the chairman of the House budget committee since 2011. We're all going to talk so much more about this man over the next few months.

BANFIELD: I can't wait. And there's so much more, too.

Let me just button it up with this, these little nuggets. He's a big P-90X fitness fan, known all over the Hill for his early morning workouts, and he drove the Wienermobile. I love him.

STEINHAUSER: Yeah, you can't go wrong with the Wienermobile. As for the workouts, you know, both his father and his grandfather died of heart disease at early ages and that's a concern for him.

BANFIELD: Well, he's serious. Heck, yeah.

STEINHAUSER: Very serious as a heart attack.

BANFIELD: Well, lots more to find out and I'm sure the microscope is only just fine-tuning at this point.

Paul Steinhauser, good to see you. Thanks for coming on.

STEINHAUSER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: All right, so, fresh off a homecoming/fundraising weekend in Chicago, our president, Mr. Obama, is starting a three-day bus tour and guess where? You ready? Yep, Iowa.

While Paul Ryan is at the state fair in Des Moines today, the president, instead, will be somewhere between Council Bluffs and Boone with more many more stops on his very busy schedule.

Our CNN's Brianna Keilar is watching from the White House. I expect this is probably not the last stop that will be in Iowa, but three full days, that's a "Mitt-ful."

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Three full days, but, of course, Iowa is very important to President Obama. He won it in 2008 and, now, it's up for grabs.

And you should expect, Ashleigh, to hear President Obama talking again about Paul Ryan, who will continue with the themes that he's been talking about now for months. He'll be portraying himself as fighting for the middle class and Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan fighting for the wealthy.

And we heard President Obama talk about Paul Ryan yesterday at a fundraiser in Chicago. So, expect for him to perhaps be gracious on the personal level, welcoming Paul Ryan to the race, but attacking him on policy.

Here's part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: He's an articulate spokesman for Governor Romney's vision, but it's a vision that I fundamentally disagree with.

My opponent and Congressman Ryan and their allies in Congress, they all believe that, if we just get rid of more regulations on big corporations and we give more tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans, it will lead to jobs and prosperity for everybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, Ashleigh, David Axelrod, a key campaign adviser to President Obama, wasn't quite as nice. He called Ryan a, quote, "certifiable right-winger" and I think what we'll be expecting to see a lot of, especially in the coming days, is the president and the campaign really attacking Mitt Romney's pick because of Medicare, because under the Ryan budget, he wants to change Medicare into a voucher system and that's something that the campaign is going to try to use to chip away at some of Romney's support from seniors.

BANFIELD: All right, Brianna Keilar, live at the White House. Thanks so much.

And we'll be having more on the "truthiness" of it all as we continue on throughout the week, so make sure you stay tuned for full coverage from the campaign trail, right here, every day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Well, the thirtieth Olympiad is now officially over and, now, it's Heathrow's problem, dealing with the challenges of getting 10,000 athletes on flights and out of town.

Zain Verjee is, luckily, covering this story for us. They decided to tent the parking lot and set up, I would assume, an extraordinarily secure terminal to get out of these athletes and their, what, 90,000 or some odd bags out of the country?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. They're gone. Woo hoo!

No, not really. They brought us so much fun and joy. Look at "The Daily Telegraph." This is the headline, Ashleigh. "Thanks, it's been a blast. Now, goodbye."

One-hundred-and-sixteen-thousand people at Heathrow Airport today. It's always busy, but you've got about 10,000 or so athletes and they've actually tried to make it look like a very British park and they've tried to recreate the trees and the scene.

They've also put a little telephone box as well as a double- decker bus. And you know what? People can also put their favorite little memory, as you can see there, on this tree and then just stick it there before they leave. That's pretty cute, right?

But when they're all gone, it's going to go back to being a staff parking lot, as it should be.

BANFIELD: Yeah, and then all those venues, you get to use for your own devices, Zain. It's a lot of fun.

I remember when I was covering the Sydney Olympics back in 2000 for NBC, the closing ceremony was a big highlight because we all got to stay and party afterwards.

So, last night I had my chips and my hot cocoa in bed and I'm watching the closing ceremony and, lo and behold, NBC goes to some TV show and makes me wait.

VERJEE: I know.

BANFIELD: Makes me wait to see one of my favorite bands of all time. What is the deal?

VERJEE: What was your favorite band of all time, the Spice Girls? But I think you would have seen that one, right?

BANFIELD: Yeah, you know what? It was The Who, a long time ago.

VERJEE: Yes, yes.

BANFIELD: And you know what? I think the worst part of it was you had to wait a whole hour and then The Who came on for all of six minutes.

VERJEE: I know. How dare they? That's what NBC did at the closing ceremonies and they showed us "Animal Practice" instead, a preview of a new show about a vet who loves animals and sex. How dare they?

But, like you said, The Who and, also, Muse and a couple of others were just edited out a little bit later.

You know what? The outcry has been online, as well. Just check this out. Hash tag "NBCfail" on Twitter says, I think NBC has managed to become even less popular than Congress. Is that possible, Ashleigh?

Another tweet here. "Hey, NBC, it's Sunday. Many of us would love to be watching Olympic's closing ceremonies."

And then this one's from Stacey. "Gee, I can't wait for the closing ceremonies to be over so I can watch 'Animal Practice.'"

You know, my favorite part was, "always look on the bright side of life."

BANFIELD: Oh, yeah, harkening to the Monte Python days, Eric Idle. That was awesome. I liked Mr. Bean, too, in the opening ceremony.

VERJEE: Yeah.

BANFIELD: That was the good closer.

VERJEE: Very cute.

BANFIELD: Well, if you get some time, now that you've worked, what, 100 days in a row, come visit.

VERJEE: I will. I promise.

BANFIELD: Good to see you, Zain Verjee. As always, my dear, thank you so much.

I want to move on to other news out of Europe right now. This is a case that really rocked the Vatican, rocked that place for months, in fact. A judge now, just today, has ordered the Pope's butler, his former butler, is going to stand trial on charges of leaking hundreds of secret papers that were stolen from the pope's personal apartment.

It happened. Believe it or not. Paolo Gabriele is highlighted in this video. In a 35-page document, the Vatican says that he acted because he saw, quote, "evil and corruption everywhere in the church," end quote.

A second man, a Vatican computer expert, is being charged with aiding Gabriele in this effort. Stay tuned for that.

In Egypt, a key military shake-up that apparently caught just about everybody by surprise, one bold move to regain total civilian power. President Mohammed Morsi just went ahead and dismissed his top generals. Dismissed them. Sent them packing.

Among the top brass now out of the military, the defense minister who took power after the ouster of the dictator, Hosni Mubarak, last year. He was given a medal and then, quote, "sent to retirement."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So we've had the big announcement and we have Mitt Romney's choice for V.P. The candidate? Paul Ryan. So, now, what's going to happen?

If you think back to 2008, the media went bananas. It was all Sarah Palin, all the time. In fact, she didn't like it one bit, many times complaining that there was virtual media in the bushes behind her home.

So, she turned a lot of the blame on what happened to her during her race on us, the "lame stream media" and she blamed us for a lot of the negative coverage and the negative image.

Take a look at HBO's "Game Change."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIANNE MOORE, ACTRESS, "GAME CHANGE": This wasn't my fault. I wasn't properly prepped.

I miss my baby. I miss my baby.

WOODY HARRELSON, ACTOR, "GAME CHANGE": She's on the verge of a complete nervous breakdown.

MOORE: Telling me what to say, what to wear, how to talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right. So, that's the Hollywood version of how it was for Sarah Palin. She disputes that it was anything like what you saw in that HBO program.

But, we all remember that the media was thick with images of Sarah Palin, her family, her daughter, her dog, her ice fishing, her moose hunting, and you name it.

Larry Sabato is from the University of Virginia Center for Politics. He joins me now to talk about whether Mr. Ryan is about to undergo the same scrutiny. Larry, is he?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, he's going to get a vetting, Ashleigh, but, look, this is a classic case of a known quantity versus an unknown quantity.

Yes, Paul Ryan isn't known to the country, but he's known to the constituency that matters in this case, Washington political reporters and anchors. I don't think there's a one of them that hasn't interviewed Ryan a half dozen times, whereas four years ago they couldn't pick Sarah Palin out of lineup.

BANFIELD: In fact, I think a lot of people had no idea that she was even the Alaska governor when she was touted out for the very first time and then just really captured everybody with her extreme populism. She was breathtaking on stage.

And then came this, Larry, the Charlie Gibson interview in September of 2008 when she was asked about the Bush doctrine. Let me replay it.

Oh, what a huge intro to no tape. Sorry about that, but let me imitate for a moment.

What are you thoughts about the Bush doctrine, Governor Palin?

In what sense, Charlie?

Well, what's your sense of it?

And then it was kind of just a big debacle. It was very clear that she just didn't know what the Bush doctrine was.

And, Larry, it seemed after that, her handlers kept her from us. They were very, very few interviews that Governor Palin did after that. Methinks that Paul Ryan is so media savvy he'll be out there for all of us to question at leisure.

SABATO: I think they'll put him out there. I don't know how much they will.

Look, he's known as an expert, at least in his field, the budget and, clearly, he knows what he's talking about there.

Sarah Palin's problem was she had not been properly prepped over the years about many national and international issues. That isn't going to be Paul Ryan's problem. I don't think anybody is going to ask Paul Ryan which newspapers he reads in the morning.

BANFIELD: You know, Larry, that bugs me when people say "properly prepped" because I've got to be honest with you. There's only so much you can prep for if you're going to be the leader of the free world. You need to be generally prepped and a question like that was something even a news anchor would know without really reading up much on it.

And I have that sound bite now, so let me replay it so people can now watch whether she's not prepped or whether she's not savvy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE GIBSON, REPORTER, ABC NEWS: do you agree with the bush doctrine?

SARAH PALIN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In what respect, Charlie?

GIBSON: Well, what do you interpret it to be?

PALIN: His worldview?

GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated in September 2002 before the Iraq war.

PALIN: I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And there you go. And that was terribly uncomfortable and it led to a lot of comedy, particularly "Saturday Night Live," so Sarah Palin game became a bit of a caricature.

It doesn't seem as though there have been any interviews in which Paul Ryan would provide that kind of fodder to the comedy channels or the late night comedians.

SABATO: Well, we just got started, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yeah, but he's been on TV a lot. Larry, he's been on TV a lot. We know him well.

SABATO: Sure. But -- and that's the key there. He's a creature of Washington. He knows Washington-speak. He knows the Washington terminology. You're not going to stump him about the Bush doctrine. You're probably not going to stump him about foreign policy matters and he isn't an expert in foreign policy. He's specialized in domestic fiscal policy.

You know, Governor Palin, again, came from Alaska. She didn't have to focus on the Bush doctrine. She was focusing on local Alaska issues. That was her job.

But, you know, all in all, there will be times when Paul Ryan stumbles because they all stumble. Nobody's perfect. Mother Teresa was not available for the position.

BANFIELD: Yeah, and I am now sitting in a glass house, so I hear you loud and clear. Larry Sabato, it is good to see you. Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it.

SABATO: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Back right ...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Paul Ryan's budget proposal, which incorporates some pretty significant changes to Medicare, has at least one critic saying that it would, quote, "end Medicare as we know it" and that has echoed several times around Washington, as well.

Other people have speculated that it could cause Mitt Romney some serious challenges in winning senior-citizen rich Florida. And guess what? Florida's really, really important this time around.

The two men on the 2012 Republican ticket addressed the questions about Ryan's controversial proposals in a joint interview on Sunday on CBS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Paul Ryan and I have talked about is saving Medicare, is providing people greater choice on Medicare, making sure it's there for current seniors.

No changes, by the way, for current seniors or those nearing retirement, but looking for young people down the road and saying, we're going to give you a bigger choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, joins us live now. And, Elizabeth, this is complex stuff, really hard to break down in a couple of minutes on television.

But, generally speaking, can you tell me what the differences are between Medicare now and how Medicare might look if Paul Ryan had the changes that he'd see fit?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: OK. To put it very simply, Ashleigh, Medicare is a federal health program for people over the age of 65 and what Ryan's proposal says is, in 2023, let's make it so you can either do Medicare the way it is, the way it always has been since, you know, for many, many years now, or you can go get a private insurance policy, after you turn 65, and get a voucher from the federal government and the federal government will pay for it.

So, in other words, you get the voucher and it will go towards that private program. If that private insurance policy is less expensive than that voucher, you get to pocket the money. If that private insurance policy is more expensive than the voucher, well, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket.

BANFIELD: All right. So, obviously this is something that Mitt Romney has thought through because he's got a very big budget plan that some people love and some people hate on Capitol Hill, among Republicans.

How much of it has he said he's going to employ? How much of it has he said he doesn't agree with, particularly when it comes to Medicare?

COHEN: You know, to use a non-medical word, Ashleigh, it's a little bit mushy and I'm going to tell you two things that a Romney senior adviser said over the weekend when he was asked that very question, or a similar question.

First, he said, quote, "it is the Romney/Ryan ticket and, as president, Romney will be putting forth his own budget, which makes you think, gee, maybe he doesn't quite agree with this.

But then he went on to say that, if he were president, if Romney were president and Ryan plan was presented as the nation's budget, he would sign it, which makes you think that he does support it.

So, it's a little bit fuzzy how much he is. Is he 100 percent behind it? Is he not? Would he sign it if it went in front of him today? It's a little bit unclear.

BANFIELD: I love the "mushy" descriptor.

And he has said that he's putting out his own plan., so we'll have to be patient and wait and see just exactly how much is incorporated in the Romney plan.

Elizabeth Cohen, nice to see you. Thank you.

COHEN: Nice to see you.

BANFIELD: More than 100,000 foster kids, 100,000 foster kids, are still waiting to be adopted in our country. Think about that number. There is someone who is fighting very hard to try to find each one of those kids a family, and it's a "CNN Hero." After finally winning a 10-year battle to become a parent, David Wing-Kovarik, is uniquely qualified to help other gay Americans fulfill a dream of becoming a family.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID WING-KOVARIK, CNN HERO: I was adopted, and I felt that I wanted to adopt a kid that needed a home.

My son was in foster care for four years. But from the minute Michael and I met, I knew right away that we were going to be a family.

I thought everything was going great, but after a month, Michael was removed from my house. I was simply cut off from him.

Find that family for that child, it's nothing short of a miracle.

Let's go. You need to get ready for the horses. Sometimes families are faced with barriers because of a myth or a misunderstanding, causing the kids to stay in the foster care system longer.

Being a gay or lesbian individual or couple makes it much harder.

My name is David Wing-Kovarik. I adopted from the foster system. Now I help other gay and lesbian individuals realize their dream of becoming parents.

We're working together with you on that.

I want to make sure that you've got that family-to-family kind of support.

I've worked hundreds of cases, side by side with social workers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We covered a lot of information last week.

WING-KOVARIK: I've trained thousands of foster parents.

It doesn't matter you're gay or straight, and we do it for free.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's figured out how to get us over that finish line. Our family wouldn't have adopted each other if it hadn't been for David.

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UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Daddy, is tonight movie night?

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You may have heard that famous line about the vice presidency, quote, "not being worth a bucket of warm spit"? Well, if you haven't heard it, it was actually said. But running mates can be important assets in a race. History is going to judge Paul Ryan's value to Mitt Romney without question. But, of course, some folks are already passing judgment, right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: I saw that kind of excitement four years ago, Anthony, when John McCain appointed Sarah Palin as well. There were huge crowds. Much of the same kind of reaction. I don't think it worked out very well. I think when the reality catches up with the moment, it's not going to be a plus for Governor Romney.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: CNN's Wolf Blitzer joining me now with thoughts on presidential tickets that clicked, and others that maybe didn't click quite so much.

All right. So we heard from David Axelrod, Wolf, and we know that Paul Ryan is no Sarah Palin, nor reverse. But do you think that David Axelrod's assessment is accurate or fair?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: I think he's going to help Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan. Even though he does bring some baggage to the table, he's very, very smart. He's actually well liked not only by Republicans and conservatives but well liked by a lot of his Democratic colleagues, as well. He's got very different views than they have, especially on some sensitive issues involving the budget, Medicare, some of the entitlement programs. But I suspect he's not going to have the -- he's not going to make the kind of blunders that we saw for some other vice presidential candidates. And I think he will bring excitement to that conservative base, energize them.

One of the big things on November 6th, Ashleigh, as you well know, is going to be voter turnout. Who is going to be having more enthusiastic supporters? There's always been reluctance on the part of the conservative base to accept Mitt Romney. I think this shores it up a lot. And they're going to get out there, not only vote because they don't like President Obama and Joe Biden, they're going to vote because they're more enthusiastic about this Republican ticket.

BANFIELD: I will say Sarah Palin certainly got a lot of people out. They were really energized in '08.

BLITZER: And Sarah Palin, to her credit, did really energize the Republican base. And the numbers were turning around, if you remember, on Labor Day, it was neck and neck between then-Candidate Obama and John McCain. She really helped John McCain a lot. What happened then was the economy really took a nose dive and Morgan Stanley and the big financial firms were going down. And unemployment was going up. And that really turned things around for John McCain.

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF: I don't know if you can simply blame Sarah Palin for the disaster that John McCain saw on Election Day.

BANFIELD: Let's go through other choices in history because a lot of people would think, if you remember Ike/Nixon, wow, how can anybody decide Nixon as a running mate. We remember him differently. At the time that Eisenhower chose Nixon as a running mate, he brought a lot to the table for him.

BLITZER: He was much younger and, to a certain degree, he brought in a lot of that intellectual spark, if you will. Because Nixon, whether you liked him or not, was a very, very smart guy as well. Everybody loved Ike. He was a war hero, the World War II hero. I don't think Nixon really made much of a difference in '52 or in '56. But that's another story.

BANFIELD: And then just quickly, Bush/Cheney. I remember the time when we all knew that Cheney was on the search committee and, lo and behold, became the vice presidential pick himself. There was a hue and a cry at that time, too.

BLITZER: I don't think Cheney really brought a lot of votes necessarily for George W. Bush. But he was a very, very powerful vice president. That line you opened up with about a warm bucket of spit, or whatever, you know what, if you look at some of the recent vice presidents, including Joe Biden right now, he's playing a very, very influential role. Al Gore as Bill Clinton's vice president, very influential role. And whether you like Dick Cheney or not, he was extremely important during the eight years of the Bush administrations. So I don't accept that "warm bucket of spit" stuff.

BANFIELD: In case anybody is wondering, Wolf -- and I was actually -- I remember the quote, but I couldn't remember who said it. The quote mentioned at the beginning of the segment. That was John Nance Garner, the guy known as Cactus Jack, first V.P. to FDR.

BLITZER: Right. And maybe he felt like that. But I think, in recent years, that slot has been increasingly important.

BANFIELD: Well, and Mitt Romney's seven points behind Obama in the polls so it better be important for him.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You know one thing I'm going to watch, these next few polls, to see if there's a Paul Ryan bounce, if it's really going to help Mitt Romney at least in the short term. We'll see.

BANFIELD: And how long it lasts, which is critical.

BLITZER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because we're a long way away from Election Day.

Thank you, Mr. Blitzer. Good to see you.

WOLF: Good to see you, at 11: 00 a.m. eastern.

BANFIELD: Thanks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you doubt the power and influence of social media, consider this case of cold-blooded murder. Two Michigan brothers who spent the past 25 years in prison on a murder conviction are now instead going to get a new trial possibly. Thomas and Raymond Hires (ph) were found guilty of gunning down a suspected marijuana dealer way back in 1987. But they were granted a new trial last month after a post on Facebook prompted a man to come forward saying he witnessed the killing and that it wasn't done by the Hirer brothers, who are white, but, instead, was done by four African-American men. You cannot get further off in an eyewitness I.D.

Jason Carroll is monitoring this case.

First of all, what? JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's an incredible story when you look at it from every particular angle. Let's talk about first what's happening today. Today, we've got a bond hearing that's going on.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: They're still -- they're still in prison.

CARROLL: They are still in prison. This bond hearing, which is happening actually right now, will determine, A, if the judge decides to release them, how much bond they will be released on. You can imagine how tense it is for the family, for the two brothers who have served 25 years so far for this crime.

BANFIELD: So why are the new witnesses any more credible than the old witnesses? Like anybody could come out the woodwork and say I've got new information for you?

CARROLL: That's a good question.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Spring my friends.

CARROLL: I think that's what the prosecution is saying in all this. They're saying, look, this has been a conspiracy from the beginning. Why are we all of a sudden believing the new witnesses coming forward?

But you also have to remember that these two brothers, according to what the defense says, they've maintained their innocence all along. Their story has not changed. And because of this Facebook posting that started this whole thing, new witnesses now coming forward telling a different story.

BANFIELD: It turns out these guys, while in the slammer for the last 25 years, didn't perhaps behave as model citizens. They had a few run-ins. If you're in prison for 25 years, you're doing to have a few fistfights.

CARROLL: That's what their defense would say and what their attorneys would say. What's happened during this bond hearing, you've got people testifying in their defense. One of the people testifying in their defense, the former warden for the prison, coming forward today. Yes. And she says she believes in their innocence. She will explain, they've had problems while in prison, but this is what you will have with a lot of inmates.

BANFIELD: The warden?

CARROLL: Obviously, the judge will take that into account, the former warden of the prison coming forward today.

BANFIELD: I thought I heard it all. Keep an eye on this one.

CARROLL: We will.

BANFIELD: And let me know what transpires after this hearing today.

CARROLL: You bet.

BANFIELD: Jason Carroll, excellent work. Thank you.

Defense attorney and legal commentator, Joey Jackson, by the way, lots to say about this. He's going to join me with his take on this case only on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So, time for legal briefs. We were just talk with Jason Carroll about the two brothers in Michigan who have spent the last 25 years in prison. Turns out maybe they should not have. Maybe there was a misidentification when it came to the witnesses who testified originally at trial. And it turns out someone on Facebook makes a posting, and new witnesses come forward. And this raises a lot of questions. Not the least of which is, what? And, number two, how good are we at identifying people, how good are we at being eyewitnesses?

Here is the case in a nut shell. 46-year-old Raymond and Thomas Hires (ph), twin brothers, getting a new trial because both were found guilty in 1987 of murder, murder of suspected drug dealer in Detroit. But their murder convictions were thrown out by a judge just earlier on this month. That judge now could decide today whether or not they should be granted bond and be sprung from prison after 25 years behind bars.

Defense attorney and law professor, Joey Jackson, is joining me on this one.

And the first question for Jason Carroll, who was reporting this story, is, what? Because how on earth can you have eyewitnesses at trial who say that two white guys did it and new eyewitnesses who come forward and say, no, four black guys did it.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY & LAW PROFESSOR: Exactly. Crazy. I hate to tell you this, but it happens more often than you would think and that we would like in the legal system. So it is crazy. And now you have someone 25 years later, two people who may be sprung as a result of this. Usually, it is the DNA, Ashleigh, but this time it is Facebook. Thank goodness for the social media. Where you have a general conversation and someone who is familiar with the case says, hey, my roommate told me something about this. They get an affidavit from the roommate, the judge finds it credible and, as a result, the judge orders a new trial. Amazing?

BANFIELD: First question, is this bad policing or bad eyewitnessing?

JACKSON: Well, you know what, sometimes, believe it or not, a trial is to be a search for the truth, and the search for the truth -- (CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Did you say supposed to be?

JACKSON: Supposed to be, absolutely, because there are instances when the jury tries its best to get it right, and sometimes they don't. And as a result they render a verdict -- I like to say this. There are many guilty people who are free amongst us, and those who are those who innocent who are unfortunately incarcerated and because, as a result of the judicial system. Not bashing it, but sometimes you have a misidentification, and sometimes it is unfair ruling.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: So the juries work with what they get.

JACKSON: They do. They do.

BANFIELD: And we are not so good at getting, it turns out.

JACKSON: And you know, everybody likes to blame the lawyers that the lawyers spin so it much, that there is some confusion as to what happened or jurors have a general sense of mistrust, it is a conviction and you have to fight for your life.

BANFIELD: In this particular case, we are waiting for the hearing to find out if the Hires (ph) brothers are going to be sprung on bond because the prosecutors wants to retry it. They want to go forward, as well know.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: They are not commenting to CNN. We have reached out to them. They would like to see today pass and get into the further into the second day trial process. but where you have, 25 years later, you put these two guys into a courtroom today, all of the media coverage that says that the guys may have been erroneously sitting in a cell and missing the funerals of up with of their daughters, both of their mother, and all of the dead witnesses out, there because we are 25 witnesses past, all of the bad memories, the bad memories of 25 years ago if we have bad witnesses.

JACKSON: So well done --

BANFIELD: What are your chances?

JACKSON: So well done as you summarized it. But it may work in their favor, because you have to know that there is an affidavit where someone said, look, I saw what happened and there were four African- Americans who happened to be involved in this and there were not two white people who were there. And as a result and the affidavit, and him saying, Ashleigh, I was frightened for my life and that is why I didn't come forward, that is going to help to get them exonerated --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: But, Joey, why is a witness today anymore valuable than a witness back then?

JACKSON: Right, because you have a witness now who has seen something or knows something and wants to say something.

BANFIELD: And wants them sprung.

Quickly, come back on the camera here, because I want Joey to do something here.

Can you put your hands behind your back?

JACKSON: Of course.

BANFIELD: I want everybody at home to try this. Put your hands behind the back as if you are handcuffed. This is a whole other story I'm teasing ahead to. And see if you can shoot yourself in the head.

JACKSON: Very difficult to do.

BANFIELD: Give it a try. Give it a try.

JACKSON: I can't do it, Ashleigh. I can't do it.

BANFIELD: See if you can get yourself in the right temple. See if you can take a fake gun behind you -- and I know you will spend the whole commercial break doing this, I just know. But there's a good reason.

(LAUGHTER)

JACKSON: It is not going to work. I'm an innocent man.

BANFIELD: There's a good reason I am asking everyone to do this, because it may have happened, or maybe not. This is another case that Joey Jackson is going to weigh in on right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: All right. So have you figured out yet how to shoot yourself in the head with your hands firmly cuffed behind your back? This is what police say happened in Jonesboro, Arkansas. A young man named Chavis Carter, 21 years old, gets put in the back of a cruiser after being searched not once but twice. Searched not once but twice. They found a tiny bag of marijuana on him, and drug paraphernalia. They did not find a concealed weapon. All of the sudden a gun goes off in the back of the cruiser. This is the story the police say happened. Now they are saying it's possible that young man committed suicide in the back of the cruiser. But the problem is that he was handcuffed with his hands behind his back. So if you were able to do it, congratulations, because your yoga has paid off. But most people say, and his family says highly, highly unlikely.

Joey Jackson back with us now.

As both criminal defense attorney and prosecutor, and your first inclination is to say, I smell a rat. JACKSON: Absolutely. And the other issue that he is shot in the right temple and he is left handed. The family said that. And moreover, Ashleigh, he called the girlfriend and said, I will call you from when I get to prison. So something is amiss.

The federal government is involved and the FBI is investigating. What I would like to see -- the police say that there is a dash cam and the dash-cam video as well as audio gives an explanation.

BANFIELD: And, look, pointing into the camera --

JACKSON: How convenient.

BANFIELD: I don't know if I can get a camera shot, pointing this way, the two cruisers were, you know, trunk to trunk. So you can only hear the audio.

JACKSON: Interestingly enough, their indication, the police, is that the dash-cam video, in addition to the audio, confirms the story. So I'd like to have a chance to evaluate that. I think if we had a chance to evaluate that we would be in a better position.

BANFIELD: The police have talked openly about this. They were not shy in any way with the interview with our Randy Kaye. They said, look, it happens.

JACKSON: And she said it was bizarre.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Think about it. A lot of people in the cruiser wiggle their hands down under their butts and try to get away. Think if there's a possibility. Everybody here is thinking suicide and they think intentional. What about accidental and trying to get the concealed weapon and tuck it behind the seat and it goes off?

JACKSON: Well, Ashleigh, anything is possible. But how do you find a little bag of weed and miss a .38 caliber gun? It does not make sense. As a result, the family is outraged. The community is outraged. They are getting together and they want answers, they demand them, and they should get them.

BANFIELD: I hear you about the search, because that is one of the most troublesome parts of this. You miss the gun the first time. You miss the gun the second time. And they miss the sound of the shot in the cruiser as well.

JACKSON: And no one says anything about a shot. And the windows, there's no window damage, so you can't blame it on a sniper, because the windows are rolled up. So it's just crazy.

BANFIELD: And perhaps the forensics in this case will demystify it, because trajectory and everything else that forensics will be able to prove should answer this.

JACKSON: 100 percent, in addition to the paraffin and the gun powder and where it ended up. I hope for closure for the family and the community that happens.

BANFIELD: Again, the police officers have said that they are just as mystified about all of this as the rest of us.

Joey Jackson, nice to have you with us.

JACKSON: My pleasure.

BANFIELD: Thank you, sir. You always have great answers.

Thanks so much for being with us, everybody.

Guess what, NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL starts now.