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Nancy Grace

11-Year-Old Electrocuted on Mini-Golf Course

Aired August 27, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. An Albany family heads to a Florida resort near Disney when tragedy strikes, their 11-year-old little girl electrocuted to death playing putt-putt, mini-golf, right in front of her family`s eyes.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We are at the Orange Lake, at the mini-golf. And this little girl fell into the water. She was trying to get the ball. And there was electricity in the water. It`s River Island mini-golf. And somebody tried to help her, and he got shocked and he was immediately knocked off. He was laying in the water.

911 OPERATOR: Is she conscious and alert? Is she breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, she`s not breathing at all.

911 OPERATOR: Did anybody try CPR?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but she`s not responding at all.

911 OPERATOR: She`s not responding at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live to the Houston suburbs, he`s divorced, he`s lonely, he goes looking for love on line. Bombshell tonight. After finding his would-be bride half his age, he shells out thousands on jewelry, luxury trips, even spending money, the bride set to head to Texas. But it all comes to a screeching halt when she learns her groom wants her kidnapped, poisoned, held bound and captive at his place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Web site is called Dream Marriage. It claims men can find hot and sexy brides, mail-order brides. She`s young enough to be his daughter, a woman half his age with dreams of becoming a singing sensation.

But the dream quickly turns into a nightmare when investigators say Sartan (ph) wants his mail-order bride kidnapped and murdered. Sartan allegedly deposits $25,000 with who he thinks is a hitman, wanting to make sure he wipes out his younger lover.

The alleged motive, Sartan reportedly learns his love was having sex with another boyfriend. Sartan claims he`s being scammed and caught the singing beauty cheating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. An Albany family heads to a Florida resort near Disney when tragedy strikes, their 11-year-old little girl electrocuted to death playing putt-putt, mini-golf, right in front of her family`s eyes.

Right now, I want to go straight out on the latest regarding a 9- month-old baby that has just been found dead in a car. To Paul Westcott, talk show host, WGIR. Paul, a 9-month-old child dead in a car. What do we know?

PAUL WESTCOTT, WGIR 610 AM (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. This is a sad and sick case. At around 4:00 PM in a blue-collar neighborhood of Lowell, Massachusetts, a 9-month-old boy was found by a neighbor and his father in the back of his car.

According to police, they say he appeared unresponsive at that time. The father then, as you mentioned, called 911, waited outside for paramedics to arrive. And some of the neighbors reported seeing the mother both (ph) outside, and some were saying that she was distraught and saying her baby was alive inside.

So clearly a distraught mother, but exactly what the details are of how this happened are still coming out.

GRACE: So the mom is screaming outside in the yard that the baby`s alive, but the baby is, in fact, dead. The 9-month-old child -- it`s a baby boy, correct?

WESTCOTT: Correct, it`s a baby boy.

GRACE: OK. Police not releasing any more information. Clark, we know the child is found dead in the car. Do we know a cause of death yet?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, Nancy, we are waiting for autopsy results.

GRACE: To Paul Westcott, WGIR, joining us there on the scene. Who found the baby boy in the car?

WESTCOTT: The baby boy was found both by the father and a neighbor who were walking by the vehicle at the time.

GRACE: So a father and a neighbor see the child in the car. Ostensibly, no cause of death on the outside of the body. If we don`t know the cause of death yet, if we`ve got to wait for an autopsy report, I`m taking that to mean, Paul Westcott, that you couldn`t tell by looking at the child what the cause of death was, right?

WESTCOTT: No, you could not. There were no bruises. There was no markings. So that`s what police are looking into.

GRACE: Tonight, police not releasing any more information to us. Right now, all we know, 9-month-old baby boy found dead in the car. As we get updates on that, we`ll bring it to you.

We`re now switching over to our other story.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911. hat`s your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We are at the Orange Lake at the mini-golf. And this little girl fell in the water. She was trying to get this ball, and there was electricity in the water. It`s River Island mini-golf. And somebody tried to help her, and he got shocked and he was immediately knocked off. He was laying in the water.

911 OPERATOR: Let me put you through to rescue. Stay on the line.

911 OPERATOR: Rescue. The address of the emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We are at the River Island mini-golf. This girl, she tried to get the ball out of the water. It`s, like, a little pool. And there was electricity. So she got shocked. And the guy tried to help her, and he got shocked, too, and he was (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: OK. Is she out of the water now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out of the water. They tried to, you know, resuscitate her, but she`s not responding at all.

911 OPERATOR: OK. She`s at the mini-golf at Orange Lake resort?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, at the River -- River -- what is it?

911 OPERATOR: Ask them -- OK...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: River Island.

911 OPERATOR: OK, is that -- listen to me. Is that located in Orange Lake resort, or is it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, it is. Yes, it is. It is.

911 OPERATOR: OK. I`ll let them know.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: To Albany. Her family heads to a dream vacation near Disney, the whole family there, an 11-year-old little girl electrocuted to death. Why? Because she was playing putt-putt, miniature golf.

I want to go straight out to Bonnie Druker, on the story. Bonnie, what happened?

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, this is so heart- breaking, I could barely even handle this. But apparently, this girl was playing putt-putt. She ended up putting the ball into the water. The water was adjacent in a pond to the putt-putt grass. She went in, and she was electrocuted immediately, Nancy.

We did hear that she screamed, but that was it. She was electrocuted immediately. She did not have any chance, Nancy.

GRACE: Ellie Jostad, what was the cause of death? What did the medical examiner say?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): The death was electrocution, Nancy. And what happened, too, is there was a bystander that raced to her aid when he heard her scream. The man who tried to help her was also shocked. He got a jolt of electricity also from this electrified water in that little pond, which we`re told is like the size of a kiddy pool, not even two feet deep.

He was shocked, kind of thrown from the scene. And you know, he luckily survived. But this little girl was dead almost immediately.

GRACE: Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining me from Madison Heights -- Dr. Morrone, how does this happen?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, it only takes about 70 to 700 (INAUDIBLE) to stop the heart. And that`s how electrocution is -- acts in that manner of death. And the autopsy determines that there`s burn marks on the body that the current passes in and out. And that`s how it`s fatal. It stops the heart. And unless they can restart the heart, there`s no chance.

GRACE: Dr. Morrone...

MORRONE: Tremendously painful, also.

GRACE: ... what would she have endured when she died?

MORRONE: Unspeakable pain. Every electrical neuron and cell in her body is just electrified, and tremendous chest pain when her heart stopped. And then she would lose consciousness because her heart`s not pumping and there`s no blood going to the brain.

GRACE: I want to go to a special guest joining us, Ira Leesfield. He is the attorney for the child`s family and in the last hours has filed a lawsuit on their behalf. Ira, thank you for being with us.

IRA LEESFIELD, FAMILY`S ATTORNEY (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Ira, I`m just sick about this. And last night, right before he went to bed -- last night -- and I don`t know what put this in his head. My little boy, age 4-and-a-half, John David, said, Mommy, when are we going to play putt-putt? And I already knew about your story today.

I don`t understand how it happened. Could it have been avoided, Ira?

LEESFIELD: Absolutely could have been and should have been avoided, Nancy. Bear in mind that this family left upstate New York on a family vacation to celebrate Ashton`s 11th birthday. And on June 27th at about 2:00 o`clock, all was well. This family was intact, a loving, wonderful family.

And by 5:00 o`clock, just three hours later, this little girl was no longer breathing, in the hospital, gone from her family. And at the same time, the county electrical (INAUDIBLE) were at the scene determining the fault of this accident.

GRACE: So what was the fault? What happened?

LEESFIELD: Well, it appears from their reports -- and I want to compliment them for their prompt response -- from their reports that the ground fault interruption devices that were originally installed in this water hazard or this water feature were changed by the owners, which is a tremendously large company, and rather than hiring a certified electrician to come and make the changes, they did it -- saved some money. They did it in-house. And they...

GRACE: What is ground fault? What are they? What -- I can`t...

LEESFIELD: Nancy, when you have an underwater feature like a jacuzzi or a pool, you have special electrical fault devices, so that if there is an energized situation, it triggers and stops it. These were improperly replaced. They put in the wrong devices...

GRACE: Oh, no.

LEESFIELD: ... in two of the four water features next to the putt- putt.

GRACE: Hey, Ira. Ira, have there been criminal charges in this case?

LEESFIELD: Not that I know of. It`s the case -- the investigation is still ongoing by the Orange County sheriffs.

GRACE: Well, so you`ve actually moved faster than the criminal case.

Everybody, we are taking your calls. And with me, a specialist in his field, Ira Leesfield. He`s joining me out of Miami.

Out to Clayton. Hi, Clayton. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I enjoy your show so much. Listen, I`ve got a question. When the little girl was there with her family, there was nothing that she did out of the ordinary? She didn`t touch anything she wasn`t supposed to or anything like that? I mean...

GRACE: No. Clayton, it`s my understanding she reached -- she reached -- don`t go anywhere, Clayton. I think she reached into the water to retrieve her putt-putt golf ball.

Is that what happened, Bonnie Druker?

DRUKER: ... what happened, Nancy. The ball went into the water, she went in to get the ball, and she was electrocuted.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we are at the Orange Lake, at the mini-golf. And this little girl fell in the water. She was trying to get this ball. And there was electricity in the water. It`s River Island mini-golf. And somebody tried to help her, and he got shocked, and he was immediately knocked off. He was laying in the water.

911 OPERATOR: Let me put you through to rescue. Stay on the line.

911 OPERATOR: Rescue. The address of the emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes. We are at the River Island mini-golf. This girl, she tried to get the ball out of the water. It`s, like, a little pool. And there was electricity. So she got shocked. And the guy tried to get help her, and he got shocked, too, and he was immediately knocked off.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Is she out of the water now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out of the water. They tried to, you know, resuscitate her, but she`s not responding at all.

911 OPERATOR: OK. She`s at the mini-golf at Orange Lake resort?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. At the River -- River -- what is it?

911 OPERATOR: Ask them...

(CROSSTALK)

911 OPERATOR: OK, listen to me. Is that located in Orange Lake resort, or is that...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. Yes, it is. It is.

911 OPERATOR: OK. I`ll let them know. OK. Is she conscious and alert? Is she breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, she`s not breathing at all. They tried to...

911 OPERATOR: OK. Who`s there with her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s, like, four people.

911 OPERATOR: Have they given CPR?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but it`s -- she`s not responding at all.

911 OPERATOR: She`s not responding at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

911 OPERATOR: OK. And who`s speaking to her now, do you know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I mean -- I`m out of the way. I`m standing, like, 30 feet away.

911 OPERATOR: OK. It`s -- ask them if they need assistance with -- hold on one second.

911 OPERATOR: It was in the lake that you found?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a little -- like a little pool.

911 OPERATOR: Are they -- sir, are they continuing CPR at this time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they do, but she`s not responding at all.

911 OPERATOR: OK. They need to continue at this time, all right? Not responding at this time, but tell them to continue until the ambulance gets there. Now, how are they performing it? Ask them if they know what they`re doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It looks like they do.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Are they giving her compressions and breaths? What are they doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they do. They do.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Tell them to continue until somebody puts (ph) their hands on her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just opened her mouth, looks like maybe (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: OK. That`s it. Tell them to continue CPR until somebody puts (ph) their hands on her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Out to Marty in Kentucky. Hi, Marty. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy, isn`t that why commercial properties and even residential properties -- isn`t that why they`re required to carry liability insurance, for instances like this?

GRACE: They absolutely are, Marty in Kentucky. But to my mind, do- it-yourself electronics, when you are inviting the public on to your property, at this resort in the shadows of Disney, no.

Jennifer Smetters, Dwane Cates, Holly Hughes. They know children are coming there. And they did the electrical work themselves, according to Ira Leesfield? I think there should be criminal charges, Holly. I really do.

HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think that they will not file criminal charges in this particular case. They`re going to let the civil justice system take its course. Mr. Leesfield has already told us that they responded, they basically admitted, civilly speaking, that they did not do what they were supposed to do.

GRACE: Well, great. That can be used in a criminal case, Dwane Cates. Why shouldn`t this be a criminal charge? If they had been driving a car and run this little girl down, they`d be in jail for vehicular homicide.

DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well maybe they would and maybe they wouldn`t. It all depends on whether it`s an accident or not, or whether there`s gross negligence in this case. And I don`t think that they can get to negligent homicide in this case. I don`t think that there`s -- you know, clearly, they were negligent, but I don`t think they got to gross negligence, Nancy.

GRACE: What about it, Jennifer?

JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Electrified water is beyond an attractive nuisance in a putt-putt. They knew what they were doing. They were cutting corners. It`s a large corporation. And they`re going to pay for it. They`re going to pay for it handsomely.

GRACE: You know, bottom line, Woody Tripp, you and I have worked a lot of crime scenes. Dead is dead. I don`t care if she was shot. I don`t care if she was run over. Here she was electrocuted, which is probably much more painful, Woody.

WOODROW TRIPP, RETIRED POLICE CAPTAIN Well, absolutely, Nancy. We`ve seen in other places throughout the country, you know, elevator repairmen, different types of electricians, where they have ultimately been charged as a result of their negligence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at the Orange Lake, at the mini-golf. And this little girl fell in the water. She was trying to get this ball, and there was electricity in the water. It`s River Island mini-golf. And somebody tried to help her, and he got shocked, and he was immediately knocked off. He was laying in the water.

911 OPERATOR: Let me put you through to rescue. Stay on the line.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Eleven years old, electrocuted to death, playing putt-putt.

Danny in Georgia. Hi, Danny. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I want to know is why the government has stepped away from the inspections and stuff ensuring that our youth, our future generations, or -- and anybody else, for that matter, is not protected. It seems like our government is walking away from the issues to protect the citizens.

GRACE: Well, they`re also not spending the money necessary. They`ll put the law on the books, then they don`t allow the funding for that law. So it`s basically all in name only. There`s no teeth to any of it.

Back to Ira Leesfield, attorney for the family, joining me out of Miami. Ira, wasn`t the government supposed to -- the local authorities, suspect -- excuse me, inspect the wiring and the electrical work done?

LEESFIELD: Nancy, what they`re supposed to do is have laws in place, which they do, and then it`s up to the business -- in this case, this was a huge mega-business -- to comply with the laws. It`s like 55 miles an hour is the speed limit. If you do 90, you`re breaking the law. These people did 90 and maybe 120 by failing to have the proper equipment and by failing to have a permit. It was non-permitted work. So the government did its job. It passed the laws. And these people, unbeknownst to government, changed the equipment.

GRACE: Well, I`m still waiting for a criminal charge in this case. The family there playing putt-putt with their little girl, Ashton Jojo, just 11 years old, when she was electrocuted to death at a miniature golf course.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was looking for love in all the wrong places. The Web site is called Dream Marriage and claims men can find hot and sexy brides. Investigators say that`s where Texas man David Sartan (ph) found Elena (ph), a woman half his age with dreams of becoming a singing sensation young enough to be his daughter. But that didn`t stop 49-year- old David Sartan from pursuing the young woman he met on a Web site promising dream marriages. The dream quickly turns into a nightmare when authorities say Sartin discovers his dream girl was having sex with another man.

Sartin allegedly deposits $25,000 with who he thinks is a hit man, wanting to make sure he wipes out his younger lover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bombshell tonight. Live to the Houston suburbs he`s divorced and lonely and he goes looking online for love. The bride all set to head to Texas, but it comes to a screeching halt when she learns her groom actually wants her kidnapped, bound, poisoned and held captive in his place.

But right now we`re getting a little more information regarding that 9-month-old baby boy out of New Hampshire.

I want to go back out to you, Clark Goldband. We know it`s a 9-month- old baby boy found dead in the car on the street. A neighbor and the dad walking by when they -- seemingly discover him right there.

We`re getting a little more information. What time of the day and what day of the week was this?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Nancy, this was about 3:45 in the afternoon on a Saturday. So just this past weekend.

GRACE: And what do you know about -- what do you know about the neighborhood?

GOLDBAND: It`s a nice neighborhood, Nancy. This is a three-story home, tree-lined streets. And we`re just getting more information that the van that we believe law enforcement has been searching was a white minivan.

GRACE: The Middlesex district attorney`s office is weighing in. They are saying that police find the infant already deceased inside the car. Earlier, Clark, we had been told that the mom was out in the front yard screaming that the baby was alive. That`s not true, according to the Middlesex district attorney`s office, right? They`re saying the baby was dead when police get there. The baby was in the car and dead?

GOLDBAND: Well, that`s right, Nancy. There is some conflicting information. There was a witness account that saw the mom yelling that my baby is here up here, yelling from the house. However, the attorney`s office has told us that the child was dead when they arrived on-scene. The 9-month-old baby boy.

GRACE: Back out to Paul Westcott, with WGIR joining us from Manchester.

Paul, again, thanks for being with us. Have authorities been able to determine how long the child had been in the car? Was that possible to decipher?

PAUL WESTCOTT, TALK HOST, WGIR 610AM: The only information we have about that is one neighbor says about an hour prior is when they saw the vehicle pull into that driveway. There is no other official word from police on that.

GRACE: I`m also hearing that the neighbors of the baby say that they heard the mom shouting, my baby is alive upstairs. Did the mom shout that out?

WESTCOTT: That`s according to the neighbors. They told police and told us that that happened. That there were -- she was yelling out the window, yelling at some of the emergency workers. However, there`s other reports from the EMTs at the scene who saw her standing out front. So there are some conflicting reports with her husband waiting, saying, hey, listen, everything is fine.

GRACE: Hmmm. OK. With me is Paul Westcott and Clark also on the story.

We`re taking you back all the way across the country to the Ukraine. As it relates to the Houston suburbs. He is lonely after his divorce, he goes looking for love. He goes online, looking for love. Then he sinks in thousands for his new love. She is about half his age, and from the Ukraine. Spending thousands of dollars on expensive jewelry, traveling for her, luxury vacations.

He goes to visit her multiple times. He even gives her a spending allowance. She plans to move to Houston, Texas. But all that comes to a screeching halt when she finds out he actually wants her kidnapped, bound, held in his place captive, and ultimately poisoned by lead poisoning.

All of you looking for love online, take a listen.

Straight out to Dave Mack, who`s joining us from Clear Channel WAXX.

What do you know, Dave?

DAVE MACK, MORNING TALK SHOW HOST, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX RADIO: Nancy, the guy was -- you know, it was one of these Internet dating things. He thought he had found the love of his life and he got duped, he got hosed out of thousands of dollars. And when you talk about lead poisoning, actually I think it was like a joke where he was talking about shooting her. That was how he was going to do her in.

GRACE: Oh, you know what? I wonder if there are multiple plans that he made for his would-be bride slash hostage. Actually wanting to hold this woman hostage.

Dave Mack, a lot going on now on the Internet regarding her Web site.

Let`s see the Web site, Liz. I want to see the Web site that he logged onto to find love.

Dave Mack, what do we know about this Web site?

MACK: Well, you know what, it`s one of these dating things where they use it specifically to attract single men who are looking for love. I mean, you hate to say looking for love.

GRACE: Dream Marriage.

MACK: Yes, Dream Marriage. I mean, you know, but you`re looking on the Internet and it`s just taking advantage of lonely guys who have access to some cash and there you have it. I mean, he seemed to see love in her.

GRACE: Leave Mack up.

Dave Mack, isn`t it true that he travels to the Ukraine to try and have sex with her?

MACK: Multiple times. And actually, she sold him a bill of goods of waiting until the marriage.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. So he travels to the Ukraine to have sex with this girl half his age. Yes or no, Dave Mack?

MACK: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Yet you`re saying she was using him.

MACK: Oh, yes.

GRACE: Because he gave her spending money.

MACK: Absolutely.

GRACE: Really? Really?

MACK: Just trying to get the cash.

GRACE: Is that what you think?

MACK: It`s what it looked like to me.

GRACE: Really? So her agreeing to marry him and him traveling all the way across the waters just to have sex with her is what it boils down to? You still think she`s the bad guy. Well, let`s just update that scenario a little bit, Dave Mack.

Out to you, Ellie Jostad. Let`s get into it. Who was trying to hire a hit man, Ellie?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, what police say happened is that this man, David Sartin, he apparently, after this relationship soured, he decided that he was going to hire somebody to kidnap her and bring her back to Texas, he even wanted her shipped in a crate. He then planned to keep her hostage in the specially fortified room he was building in his home. He said he hoped --

GRACE: Put up Dave Mack. Put up Dave Mack. Don`t slow down, Ellie. I want to hear the whole thing.

JOSTAD: OK.

GRACE: What were you saying about a specialized crate?

JOSTAD: Right. Right. He was going to have her crated over to him, in Texas. He was going to take delivery of her.

GRACE: Don`t shake your head no, Dave Mack. Don`t shake your head no at me. Like these aren`t the facts, all right?

I`m coming back to you, young man. Because you`re the one saying she`s using him. Get back to the crate and the fortified torture chamber, Ellie.

JOSTAD: Right, so he was apparently building this room in his house where he planned to hold her captive. And he also, Nancy, told this alleged hit man, the guy he thought was a hit man, that he was hoping to get at least a week out of her, before he had to go through this plot where he was going to kill her. He said she was going to come down with a case of lead poisoning.

And he actually asked this hit man, you know, if I can`t go through with it, would you be willing to kill her for me?

GRACE: I don`t see Dave Mack, the person I keep -- there he is.

Dave Mack. So you`re all angry that she`s using him because he gave her some money, and she wouldn`t have sex with him. OK. Let`s just follow that through a little bit.

I want to go out to Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist.

So what`s the deal? Now somebody buys me a lobster dinner, I`ve got to have sex with them? Is that the deal? Somebody gives me some money, somebody asked me alone? What? I have to have sex with them? Is that what Dave Mack saying? She used him? What? Explain to me.

RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s an old story. And I really agree with you, Nancy. You really highlight an issue here that is --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: He`s an idiot enough to give somebody in the Ukraine thousands of dollars.

DURVASULA: Yes.

GRACE: He deserves to lose his money.

DURVASULA: Right.

GRACE: I wouldn`t have sex with him either.

DURVASULA: That makes him a fool.

GRACE: He`s an idiot.

DURVASULA: Right. That makes him a fool. That makes him a fool. But this woman is -- was about to be killed. That`s unacceptable. I agree.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s a young woman who is on a Dream Marriage Web site. Advertising the hottest mail-order brides. David Sartin allegedly spends wildly on his lady, including thousands in jewelry and trips. But the romance fizzles out when Sartin reportedly learns his love was having sex with another boyfriend. Sartin allegedly tells an informant he wants her kidnapped and killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: We are taking your calls. What we`re talking about is attempted murder, kidnapping, murder for hire, a whole series of crimes. He`s a lonely heart. He`s recently divorced and he goes online looking for love. A lot of people do that these days. About one in five relationships start online. With relationships here in the U.S. He decides to reach across the waters to the Ukraine. He goes to a -- let`s see that Web site. Is it Dream Brides or Dream Marriage?

Dreammarriage.com and finds a beautiful young girl, gorgeous, about half his age. They become engaged. He spends thousands of dollars on gifts, jewelry, luxury trips for her, spending money for her. He goes on multiple trips himself to the Ukraine to visit her.

It all comes to a screeching end when she plans to move to Houston, she finds out his real plan is what, Ellie Jostad?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, he was going to have her sent over in a crate. He was then going to take delivery of her from this crate and he was apparently building a special room in his house where he planned to hold her, keep her captive for about a week. At least a week. That`s what he was hoping he was going to get out of her before he had to go through with this murder plot, according to the investigators.

GRACE: OK, Dave Mack, let me just warn you that there are more women on this panel than there are men. OK?

MACK: I`m not defending the idiot. Yes

GRACE: But I`m going to go to the lawyers -- you`re the one that`s saying she was using him, like she`s the bad guy. Look, she`s just trying to make a living. She is just a squirrel trying to get a nut, Dave Mack. And she got a nut when she got this guy.

Back to you, Ellie Jostad.

Ellie, tell me again. So he goes to Ukraine over and over, he`s a lonely heart. OK, I feel bad for him. He got a divorce. He unlucky in love. He said he`s miserable. So he goes online to try to get basically a mail-order bride. One of those brides from Russia that you see online. So then what happens?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, he apparently spent about $15,000 on jewelry, including a wedding ring for her. He took her on trips all over Europe. He was paying her living expenses, paying for schooling, even helping her try to get this singing career off the ground by paying for photo shoots, production costs for her to record music.

And then apparently, though, Nancy, at some point she told him, I just want to be friends. And he found out that she had a boyfriend back in her hometown. So that`s apparently when this went sour. He talked to somebody who turned out to be a confidential informant who went to police. And told them he wants to hire a hit man to kidnap this woman and drag her back to Texas.

GRACE: Let`s put up Dave Mack again, morning talk show host, WAAX.

So Dave, what she did say was he comes over to have sex with her and she says no, I`m waiting for marriage because sex is sacred. OK.

MACK: Wow.

GRACE: Then he finds out she`s got a boyfriend that she`s having sex with. So they thinks thou doth protest too much, as Shakespeare says, Dave Mack? You don`t seem to be angry about the fact he was going to have her shipped to the U.S. in a crate, bind her, put her in a fortified room and poison her or shoot her death. You`re angry because sex was not so sacred after all.

MACK: No, you know, Nancy, he -- this guy is evil beyond belief. But she was out there trolling for guys like this. She is actually out there scamming guys. She`s got the boyfriend back at home. She`s got this idiot over here in the states, she`s scamming him for money, thousands and thousands of dollars.

You know, when you play on the Internet, you don`t know what kind of scum bag is on the other end. Now he`s evil and sick and all that. He planned for a full week of fun and games with her, with her death being at the end.

GRACE: To Woodrow Tripp, WW Tripp, former police commander. Woody, you know, you and I worked a lot of cases together. Just tell me something. No shrink is going to answer this. No lawyer will answer this. Why is it always the lonely white guys that do -- that these -- elaborate, crazy plans?

WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: I think it`s because they have the most money, Nancy. If you think about the people in the world, you know, the white guys, here they are -- and in his case, it`s kind of a comeuppance. You know, karma kind of got him. You know, from what I understand, he had a sizeable amount of money that he received from his ex-wife from her retirement.

GRACE: Yes. About half a million dollars.

TRIPP: Yes. Absolutely. So there`s some karma there for this gentleman.

GRACE: So he gets about a half million dollars divorce settlement from his ex-wife, and he sinks quite a bit of it into landing this young lady as his would-be bride. It`s all ended in a murder for hire plot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A lonely heart, a man who was divorced, his wife gave him nearly half a million in the divorce settlement, goes looking for love online and it ends in tragedy. Oh, no he wasn`t set up. The bride from the Ukraine learns that he was planning to have her shipped in a crate to the U.S., held hostage in a fortified bunker, tortured, then murdered.

We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Jennifer Smetters, Chicago, Dwane Cates, L.A., Holly Hughes, Atlanta.

First out to you, Holly, weigh n.

HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, the two aren`t mutually exclusive, Nancy. He could be a nut job. And right now, you know, those are charges pending against him but that doesn`t preclude her from being a scheming, scamming rip-off artist. It`s clear she did not intend to marry this man. She`s milking him for all he is worth.

GRACE: Why do I care?

HUGHES: And when he finds out --

GRACE: Why do I care if she is scheming and scamming?

HUGHES: OK.

GRACE: To correct you, Holly --

HUGHES: But it`s not until he finds that out that he wants to ship her in a crate.

GRACE: Don`t make me cut your mike. Don`t -- OK, Liz, get ready to cut her --

HUGHES: But he wanted a relationship with her.

GRACE: Don`t care. Don`t care. And let me remind you, Holly, all of you have practiced law in many, many courtrooms where Lady Justice is featured prominently. She is wearing a blindfold. Why? So she doesn`t see the race, she doesn`t see the gender, she doesn`t see the sex preference, the origin, the economic or social condition of the victim or the defendant.

HUGHES: Right. But, Nancy, she hears --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I do hear you again? I do. OK. So I`m now going to go to Dwane Cates and you can cut Holly`s mike.

Dwane, it doesn`t matter if she`s scheming, conniving, a slithering snake in the grass headed straight for his bank account. I don`t care. What I care about is a would-be murder.

Come on, a crate? Dwane Cates, give me your best defense. A crate, Dwane. He wants her shipped to the U.S. in a crate.

DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, this is a pure case of entrapment. He was angry because he got ripped off and duped, and he went on the Internet, started venting, and a confidential informant picked that up. Now that`s a nice name for a snitch. So some snitch trying to work off a crime sees him venting on the Internet goes to the ATF And they set this guy up. They talk him into this. He was just venting. And now all of a sudden, they`re going, hey, maybe we can do this maybe we can get her here, maybe we can do. They talked him into this crime, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, Cates.

CATES: And this is after he was duped.

GRACE: I`ve got it. I`ve got to agree with you that their defense would be entrapment. But I don`t think it`s going to work.

And this is why, Jennifer Smetters, let`s go with -- let`s take a combination of Holly Hughes and Dwane Cates, because that`s what a jury is going to hear. They`re going to get a character assassination of the Ukrainian mail-order bride. We know that. Holly is right about that whether it`s relevant or not. But the kicker is the entrapment theory.

It won`t work because of this, Jennifer. He goes to the CI, confidential informant, and says, I want you to kill this girl, this is what I want you to do, in fact, I want you to be the one to ultimately kill her because I may not have the guts to do it. The next day CI goes police, they e-mail him back and say, are you still interested? He writes back within 24 hours and says yes. That police did not approach him first, Jennifer.

JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Nobody twisted his arm. What we`re looking at here and I`m really shocked at these attorneys as well as Mr. Mack and Mr. Levitan for having a bleeding heart for what we have here is obvious predatory behavior. A man using money to try and buy influence over a woman that he is perceiving as being an object to do with as he pleases and clearly the evidence is showing what he chose to do with this woman was kill her ultimately, after confining her and having his way with her. It`s -- it`s unspeakable.

GRACE: Yes. They only say having his way with her in romance novels. It`s called rape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, joining us out of Raleigh.

We`re seeing a lot of activity with the mail-order bride business out of the Ukraine, also out of the Philippines. Why?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, Nancy, it`s not regulated very much. And there are willing victims there. Yes, like you said, there`s got to be people with the money who are willing to spend the money. Now I looked into this Web site. This young lady started this Web site in October 2012 and -- I`m sorry, 2010 and she`s been, you know, advertising herself as basically a musician.

I mean, it`s pretty clear what she`s up to her. And you know, and the bride-for-sale business, I found her in half a dozen other sites.

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Kyle Coumas, 22, Lockwood, California, killed, Afghanistan. Bronze star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantry Badge. Loved music, guitar, an only child, leaves behind parents, Greg and Laurie.

Kyle Coumas, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.

Dr. Drew is up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END