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Nancy Grace
Teen Twin Girls Charged With Murdering Their Mother
Aired August 30, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Conyers. At the tender age of 14, two identical twin sisters, straight-A students, loved school, Girl Scouts and Mommy. But then puberty hits, and it all changes.
Bombshell, tonight. The same two identical twin girls say they come home to find Mommy face down in a pool of blood on the bedroom floor. But tonight, we learn they never approach Mommy in the casket to say good-bye. They continue school. They go to classes as if nothing ever happened.
Tonight, police analyzing blood spatter evidence in the bedroom and literally beat the bushes and the grass in the neighborhood to find the murder weapon, as we uncover a turbulent past between Mom and her two girl twins, fights escalating over cell phones and boys. Are they little twin angels, or are they teen terrors that may get away with murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Strong evidence that twins Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah Whitehead stabbed and beat their mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were the ones who ran for help, saying they found her dead inside the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nikki was brutally beaten and stabbed. Police found blood throughout the Conyers home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have family on family. I think that makes it worse, especially when it`s -- when it`s children and parents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do authorities believe twin sisters killed their mother?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any kids, regardless if they`re twins or they`re just brother and sister or sisters, they can turn on their parent at a certain point in time. So these girls had some serious issues. And you know, sometimes when you get two of them together in that environment, they kind of egg each other on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A few years ago, twins Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah were in ballet and getting academic honors, now charged with murder in the stabbing and beating death of their mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do girls say the police have the wrong people?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter`s found dead! And I just can`t even imagine why they would do something so horrible!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, Conyers. At the tender age of just 14, two identical twin sisters, straight-A students, they love school, love Girl Scouts, and they love Mommy. But when puberty hits, it all changes.
The same two twin girls say they come home to find Mommy face down in a pool of blood on the bedroom floor. Are they little twin angels or twin teen terrors that may get away with murder?
We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Now, the twins ran out of the home when they find Mom, dead on the bedroom floor. She`s laying face down in a pool of blood, a stab wound to the back. They run out. They`re the runs that run for help, Brett Larson. What happened the day they say they came home and find Mommy dead?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Well, it was just, you know, another -- another day. They had gone to school. The evidence suggests that Mom made them breakfast before they went. Then they come home to this nice neighborhood, no signs of forced entry, no broken windows, no busted locks. They say they see Mom laying there in a pool of blood, and they run out, flag down a police officer and ask for help.
GRACE: Let me go to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story. Ellie, they come home from school that day. Describe to me the sequence of events.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Right, Nancy. Well, the two twins went to school that morning as usual. They were sophomores in high school. They say -- they tell police that Mom was alive when they left for school.
They came back home that afternoon, say they found their mother, discovered her lying in a pool of blood in their home. Cops also said that at the scene -- this was an incredibly bloody scene -- that there was blood spatter throughout the house, even a trail of spatter going from the living room to the bedroom where Nikki Whitehead was found.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Wendy in Texas. Hi, Wendy, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question, is I`m not understanding. Now, these two girls came home and they say they found their mom. Is there any fingerprints in the house of anyone besides the two girls or anyone?
GRACE: OK, hold Wendy in Texas. Hold Wendy. I want to talk about what, if any, forensic evidence was found in the home. I know that there`s a lot of blood and a lot of blood spatter.
Out to you, Michael Board, WOAI. What do we know about the forensics in the home? Because in a stabbing, Michael, typically, you`re going to find enough blood evidence to pin the murder on somebody. And we know this was no accident. She`s stabbed in the back.
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI: And from what we`ve been told by police, this looked like a scene out of a slasher movie. There`s blood splattered on the walls of the hallway leading back to a bedroom. There`s a woman dead in a pool of blood. We know police have cut up samples of the rug to take that back for forensic evidence.
We also have to look at the stab wounds themselves. They were all over Nikki`s arms. Those are defensive wounds. She was putting her arms up in front of her, trying to stop whoever was attacking in front of her. And then there were wounds in her back. She was being attacked from both sides, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, let`s go through the injuries on her body, very careful, Michael Board. Let`s go through them very carefully. Go ahead. Repeat.
BOARD: There are really deep cuts to her arms. That means she was putting her arms up in front of her face, trying to stop whoever was attacking her from the front. There was also a stab wound in the back. That means there was someone behind her who was stabbing her while probably at the same time she was being attacked from the front. She was being attacked from both sides, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, that indicates to me -- and I`m going to go out to Dr. Kent Harshbarger, medical examiner, joining me out of Dayton. Kent, that suggests either a prolonged attack, where she`s attacked from both sides, or two attackers. What do the forensics tell you, Doctor?
DR. KENT E. HARSHBARGER, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Obviously, you`re correct. It could be either scenario. Stab wounds aren`t necessarily lethal rapidly, so it could be -- it`s most likely a prolonged attack.
But what we certainly know is she`s defending herself with those injuries. She`s conscious. And there`s also a story she was beaten, but she`s not beat unconscious and then stabbed. She`s actively trying to defend herself, and that`s why her arms are getting cut.
GRACE: Well, where does the beating come in, Doctor?
HARSHBARGER: From the news articles I`ve read, that they have -- they have identified a beating injury, as well as stabbing injuries.
GRACE: OK, Ellie Jostad, I want to go through the injuries very carefully because, forensically, we may able to tell, is there one attacker or are there two attackers?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, she was reportedly stabbed multiple times. As we said before, she had cuts all over her arms. She was also reportedly beaten to death.
Now, so far, investigators haven`t detailed where she was beaten. They haven`t told us what kind of object or weapon might have been used. We know that police were actually out there, physically beating the bushes outside the home, trying to recover the weapon.
And in the documents -- it`s really uniquely worded. It says that she was killed with some kind of implement that was able to cut or stab. But it doesn`t, for example, say she was stabbed with a knife or a fireplace poker. We don`t know if they were able to recover whatever weapons were used to kill Nikki Whitehead.
GRACE: Well, I know this. I know with blood spatter evidence, you should be able to determine a lot. Now, the problem with this is you can`t tell if there`s one or two attackers because you cannot, for instance, date the stab wounds. You can`t date the blood spatter on the walls to determine how far apart they were, whether the perps were left-handed, right-handed.
We are taking your calls. Out to Erica in, I think, Mississippi. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is I was wondering if the girls had showed -- like, showed any signs of, like, physical abuse, sexual abuse maybe. Were they being abused by a man in the family and the mother knew about it, that would cause them to commit such a brutal crime?
Or is there any kind of evidence that, you know -- I mean, obviously, they were at school. You know, how would they have killed her and then -- you know, like, they killed her, went to school, and then came home or -- you know?
GRACE: You know, good question about that timeline. I want to go out to your first -- and answer your first question. And joining me is -- is it Yucca Harris? Is that your first name, ma`am?
YUCCA HARRIS, FRIEND OF NIKKI WHITEHEAD (via telephone): Yes.
GRACE: Thank you for being with us. Everyone, Ms. Harris was the best friend of the mother, the murder victim in this case, Ms. Nikki Whitehead.
And what initially got everyone`s attention is that her teen daughters, they had been straight-A students, loved Girl Scouts, loved drama class, loved their mother -- they never even went up to the coffin to tell her good-bye at the funeral. They acted as if nothing was wrong. They went back to classes as if nothing had happened. We know fights about boys and cell phones and dating had escalated, escalated, escalated, escalated.
Ms. Harris, what can you tell me about the relationship with their mother?
HARRIS: Well, Nikki was a great mom to the girls.
GRACE: What about the question about abuse from Erica in Mississippi? She thinks maybe a boyfriend or a male relative had been abusing them, and the mom did nothing about it. I don`t have anything in the evidence to suggest that.
HARRIS: Well, that`s a good question, and I think it will come up at some point. I don`t -- I wouldn`t say it was a family member. It was things that Nikki and I discussed, being, you know, friends for over 20- plus years. The girls had developed relationships with boys. Nikki had, you know, came up with conclusions that the girls at some point may have had some type of, you know, contact with boys.
And she was finding things and evidence of, you know, windows being opened. And Nikki just really at some point of time thought the girls was using, what she found as evidence of them maybe having some type of, you know, contact or relationship with guys and...
GRACE: Wait, wait. Let me get this straight, Ms. Harris. You`re saying that will come up in the investigation. But the question was, had the girls been sexually molested or abused in the home?
HARRIS: No, I wouldn`t say sexually molested in the home. I think some things took place in the home, and Nikki found out about it. And so that was moreso -- Nikki looked at it as an excuse for the girls, you know, to behave the way they were behaving. And let`s just say they were teenagers. And she was saying...
GRACE: But I`m getting really twisted around on this, Ms. Harris. Are you saying that the mom thought the twin girls were having sex relations with boys their own age?
HARRIS: Yes.
GRACE: OK, because the question was about, were they molested by an adult male, like the mom`s boyfriend...
HARRIS: No.
GRACE: ... or a relative. That was the question.
HARRIS: No.
GRACE: So you`re saying no, that the mom was concerned the two girls were starting to have sex, or some type of a physical relationship with boys.
HARRIS: Right. And like I indicated, that I`m -- I`m just -- you know, I`m just assuming that what will come out, if it is a trial or whatnot, that, you know, one of the girls will say that she -- and it was somebody that she`d known.
And so it was brought to my attention that, you know, she was saying that one of the guys took advantage of her, and Nikki did not, in some sense, believe her. And that`s when I think -- you know, that`s what I say that may come out in some sort, that that`s the -- that would be one of the defense, that Nikki did not believe her, and so that`s what the anger built up with one of the particular girls because of the fact that the mom did not believe the story that was given at the time that Nikki found out that they were having sex.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their mother brutally murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a brutal murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say these teen twin sisters aren`t victims, they`re the killers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never would I have ever imagined that they would be sitting in a jail cell for killing their mother!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were the ones who ran for help, saying they found her dead inside the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents about an incident where the girls attacked and injured their mother, Nikki Whitehead, in a fight about cell phone privileges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The girls just have been very rude and disrespectful, and basically, just very...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do authorities believe twin sisters killed their mother? And why do the girls say police have the wrong people?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did two beautiful young girls, identical teen twins, stab their mother to death? At age 14, they loved their mom, straight-A students, Girl Scouts, drama class. But when puberty hits, all that changes as fights escalate over cell phones and dating boys.
I got a flood of e-mails and calls in the break. I want to go back to Ms. Yucca Harris. That`s the best friend of the mom, now deceased, Nikki Whitehead.
I`ve got to straighten this whole thing out. All right, let me get this straight with you. No one has ever alleged the girls were molested by an adult, is that right, Ms. Harris?
HARRIS: That`s correct.
GRACE: OK. What I`m garnering from what you`re saying is that Mom, now dead, murdered, comes home and finds evidence in the home the girls are having sex with or relations with teen boys their age, and she doesn`t like it.
HARRIS: That`s correct.
GRACE: All right. Does she confront the twin girls?
HARRIS: Yes, she did.
GRACE: OK. Do they deny it? Do they lie?
HARRIS: Yes. They denied it and allege -- you know, I want to say one, you know, came out to speak the truth on it, but it turned into that, you know, she was forced. And Nikki didn`t believe that she was forced. And that`s where it all began, when it came to her knowing something and didn`t actually believe one of the twins.
GRACE: OK, I got it. So bottom line, the mommy comes home, finds evidence -- I`m guessing that this is condoms or birth control pills...
HARRIS: Right.
GRACE: She finds -- she knows it`s not her. They`re the only other two living in the home. She lives with her twin girls. So she says, Hey, you`ve been having sex with your little boyfriends? And they`re, like, No, no, no. And then one says, He forced me. And then in the end, the truth comes out, there was no forced sex. They`ve been letting boys come over to the house while Mom is gone.
Is that the gist of it, Ellie Jostad.
HARRIS: That`s correct.
GRACE: OK. I want to go back to Ms. Harris. Ms. Harris, you`re her best friend. You`re Nikki Whitehead`s best friend. And I assume you were at the funeral.
HARRIS: Yes.
GRACE: How did the twin girls act at the funeral?
HARRIS: Well, what I got from it, it wasn`t normal-acting because I was there from day one, as far as preparing, you know, to bury her. I purchased her outfit. We did her hair. It was pretty much a lot going on, so I wasn`t too much focusing on the girls themselves because I was trying to give her a proper burial that she deserved.
And I mean, at the same time, in the mix of everything, we were getting calls that they were calling the funeral home, wanting to see their mother without other people around. It`s like they wanted to just view the body without anybody there in their presence.
And what I hear at the grave site is that -- you know, I mean, even looking at the girls, they wasn`t in tune -- I mean, we had multiple strangers to attend the funeral that gave more of an outpour than her own kids.
GRACE: Is it true they never approached the casket to say good-bye?
HARRIS: They never approached the casket. No, they didn`t. They couldn`t even -- whatever it was, it was the spirit (ph), was forcing them -- like I say, strangers, had never met Nikki, because it was an open casket, what we consider a wake. You had strangers that approached her, didn`t even know her, just heard of the story, that could view her body. And then the kids didn`t even, you know, come down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did two twin teen girls, seemingly angels -- straight A`s, loved Girl Scouts, drama class, their mom, all sorts of competitions -- did they turn into twin teen terrors that may get away with murder?
Out to Nina in California. Hi, Nina. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to know, where is the father in the picture? And two, it couldn`t have been premeditated. It would have to have been the heat of passion when they -- you know, all of this escalated.
Did the girls -- I think that because they didn`t go up to their mom`s casket because they had so much rage and resentment towards her, maybe for not caring for them as much as her friend has said. You know what I mean? She`s entitled (ph) her children so much that she maybe didn`t...
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this, Nina. Maybe it`ll change your mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
GRACE: When we come back, reports that their own great-grandmother is so afraid of these two girls, she put a deadbolt on her bedroom door!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Strong evidence that twins Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah Whitehead stabbed and beat their mother. They were the ones who ran for help, saying they found her dead inside the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nikki was brutally beaten and stabbed. Police found blood throughout the Conyers home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re going to deny it. Of course, we don`t know yet that it`s been proven that they killed their mother, but they`re going to make up a story, if they did, to try to cover their tracks, and now, hopefully, get themselves a good defense, I would guess. The level of violence in the crime shows extreme rage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have family on family. I think that makes it worse, especially when it`s -- when it`s children and parents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do authorities believe twin sisters killed their mother?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can`t even imagine why they would do something so horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A few years ago, twins Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah were in ballet and getting academic honors. Now charged with murder in the stabbing and beating death of their mother.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why do the girls say police have the wrong people?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter`s found dead. And I just can`t even imagine why they would do something so horrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: This mom thought she gave her children everything. Ballet, drama class, Girl Scouts. They were straight-A students. She lived with her two twin girls, identical twins, that loved their mother. And then puberty hit, and everything changed.
Right now, we are being flooded with calls about the mom not being a good mom, but according to all of our reports, it was the exact opposite. It seems to me that the trouble really hit when the girls turned 14.
To Yucca Harris. Miss Harris is the best friend of the dead mom. She was found face down in a pool of blood in her bedroom. The murder weapon, unknown. She was stabbed in the back. She was stabbed so badly, as a matter of fact, Nikki, the mom, had to wear full-length evening gloves in the casket to cover up all the bruises and the stabs on her arms. She was attacked from multiple directions.
To me, this all goes back, Miss Harris, to when the girls are -- had just turned 14. And they get in such a big fight with their mom over a cell phone. Over cell phones. That they jump on their mom. They physically begin to beat her. Do you recall when that happened, Miss Harris?
YUCCA HARRIS, BEST FRIEND OF MOM ALLEGEDLY MURDERED BY TWIN DAUGHTERS: Yes, I do. I got a phone call when it took place. I was in disbelief, because I didn`t know the girls in that manner. I knew the girls as being sweet, lovable girls, when they approach you, they hug you.
You know, Miss Yucca, you know, they was very respectful. So when I got a phone call that they both jumped on her because she was disciplining, one, as far as taking the cell phone away from one of the twins, I mean, the police was called in. There`s a police report out here that she was basically jumped on.
They were charged and that`s where everything began. Because they separated -- the court separated the three. The twins went with great grandmother, and it was for Nikki, you know, at the time, to pretty much, you know, to go through the counseling session. And that`s when that started. Because the court order for individual and group counseling.
GRACE: You know, when your children begin to physically fight back and hit you -- you know, out to you psychologist, Caryn Stark.
Caryn, that`s really the only rule in -- in my home, where the children can actually get time out. I have only resorted to a swat on the booty one time, and I might add, that that was in the Orlando airport when I was surrounded by cameras, when Lucy slapped John David, for no reason. OK, she got a swat on the booty, and immediately told me, "That didn`t hurt." OK, so so much for swats on the booty. I try to go with time out, only if they hit each other.
When your child at this age, 14, attacks you, is it too late? Because isn`t it true, Caryn, that all the shrinks say that once they`re 4 years old, it`s over? That`s what -- didn`t Freud say that?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Freud said it, the first four, five years of life are the most important years, Nancy.
GRACE: Wait, let me get this straight, because the twins are 4 1/2.
STARK: OK.
GRACE: Do I have six months left to try to mold them, or is it over?
STARK: I feel like, I`ve been around you and the twins, and you`ve molded them. They`re well molded. They are not going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
STARK: They are not going to be --
GRACE: Because -- so were these girls, Caryn.
STARK: They are not going to be like these girls.
GRACE: These girls were, too. And I haven`t even gotten to the blood evidence yet. All right, all I know is they`re under suspicion right now. But 14 years old and your mom takes your cell phone away and you jump on her?
STARK: Which I don`t know the background to this family, but that`s a sign that something is severely wrong, as you`re saying, Nancy. And an indication that there`s a problem with the girls and a real problem in the family. That`s not normal.
GRACE: OK, I guess age 14 is too late, because I would hate to have to call police in and take my children to juvie hall and make a police report, but what else could this mother do, Caryn Stark?
STARK: Well, I would have liked to know what was going on before that. You know, were there any other indications? I can`t believe that out of the blue, all of a sudden, they became psychopaths. So I think that something must have been going on, Nancy, and she ignored it. Not that I want to blame the victim.
GRACE: OK. We are taking your call, very quickly. OK, out to the lines, Marianne in Florida. Hi, Marianne, what`s your question?
MARIANNE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to say that I think if I were to have injured any part of my family and, or had not, and was being accused of it, I think I might look a little bit more solemn and, you know, afraid than those two girls in those mug shots. They look more annoyed and -- they look more annoyed than anything, which is unfortunate. You know, looks like they`re guilty to me, just according to the pictures.
GRACE: You know, they look irritated. They look annoyed. That`s what they look like.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Jim Elliott, city attorney, Warner Robins, John Manuelian, defense attorney, L.A., Teresa Ross, defense attorney, Atlanta.
All right. Out to you, Jim Eliot. Have you ever seen anything like it before? I`m about to read you off a list of twin killers, but have you ever seen anything like it before?
JIM ELIOT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Certainly not, I mean, this is over the top. Everyone has trouble with teenagers, but good grief. I mean, it`s amazing.
GRACE: OK, Manuelian, what are we going to learn from the blood evidence?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s no blood evidence connecting it to Jasmiyah or Tasmiyah. So that`s going to be problematic for the prosecution and there`s now weapons. So, you know, there`s a big hurdle to cross here.
GRACE: You know, I don`t know that I disagree with that, Teresa Ross, just because police haven`t shared the blood evidence with us doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. And I`ve prosecuted plenty a cases where the murder weapon was never found. You don`t give a gold star or an A-plus to a killer just because they successfully hid the weapon.
TERESA ROSS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, where are the cuts on their hands? If this was as brutal as they claim, you would think that they would have some type of injury on their hands or somewhere on them. And it doesn`t seem that that`s come into play.
GRACE: Everybody, this is not the first time that twins have committed murder. The Kray brothers, the most notorious identical sets of thugs, they ran mafia style operations. They committed multiple murders. The Spahalski brothers. It has happened before.
Our family album back, showcasing your photos from iReport. Here are Texas friends, the Kirbys. Clint and Mallory love walks, cooking, football, and their twins, Brianna and Caroline.
Share your photos through iReport album at hlnTV.com/Nancygrace and click on "Nancy`s Family Album."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just a few years ago, twins Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah were in ballet and getting academic honors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter`s found dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has to be your mom and she`d been brutally murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The stabbing and beating death of their mother.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sixteen-year-old twins, Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah were the ones who ran for help, saying they found her dead inside the home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a brutal murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In a pool of blood, on the bedroom floor.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police arrested the twins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as the motive, I just don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twins Jasmiyah and Tasmiyah whitehead now charged with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But the girls say they didn`t do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Ellie Jostad.
Ellie, why did the great grandmother have to put a dead bolt lock on her bedroom door when these girls came to live with her? They look like two little angels at age 14. They`re Girl Scouts, straight-A students, took ballet, were into drama classes, loved mommy. Puberty hit, all that changed.
They attacked their own mom over a dispute on a cell phone, were sent to live with great-grandma for a couple of months, and during that time, she ended up putting a deadlock on her door. What was that all about, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, according to friends and family of the victims, these two twins were stealing from their grandmother. She was afraid of them. That`s why she decided to lock her on bedroom.
But Nancy, what people who knew about this situation say is, the twins actually preferred living with the great-grandmother, because this woman was in her 80s. She wasn`t the disciplinarian that her mother was. And when they lived with great-grandmother, they could basically do whatever they wanted. And they considered it punishment to have to go live with their mom and follow her rules.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Connie in Illinois. Hi, Connie, what`s your question?
CONNIE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Was there a life insurance policy on the mother or the great-grandmother? I mean, did they, like, have something hidden in their room? Was there any clues, and did they find any clues in their room that would lead up to this --
GRACE: Good question. To Brett Larson, investigative reporter.
Brett, what do we know about potential motive?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: You know, I mean, we`re spot-on there with the motive about them wanting to go and live with the grandmother, and how she just basically just said she didn`t impose a lot of discipline.
And as we`ve talked about, there were past problems and assaults on the mother. But really, you know, the police are being very mum about what they have found and what sort of motives they have come up with. Not really saying much. And all we really know is that, you know, when they lived with the grandmother, she put a dead bolt lock on her bedroom door, and that when they went back to live with the mom, she came and stayed there that night.
GRACE: Hmm. I want to go to Laura in Florida. Hi, Laura. What`s your insight or question? Hi, Laura in Florida. What`s your question, dear?
LAURA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. Can you hear me?
GRACE: Yes.
LAURA: I was wondering, they were in high school, right?
GRACE: Yes.
LAURA: Did they tell any friends about this and do they have any other suspects?
GRACE: You know what, I`m wondering about that. C.W. Jensen, retired police captain joining me out of Cave Creek. What`s the likelihood that these two discussed this with someone at school?
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: You know, Nancy, I`ve investigated cases like this and one of your callers, I think, or another guest said what I believe, they probably came home, an argument ensued. It gets very, very -- you know, we all know, I mean, these girls were pissed, they grabbed a knife, they stabbed the mother. Maybe not both of them stabbed her, but that`s --
GRACE: Um, C.W., yes, I don`t know what the legal terminology is there in Arizona, but pissed is not really a defense under the law. So let`s just back it up a little bit. So they come home. You`re thinking this is a crime of passion. That they get angry with their mom and stab her? They`re saying they didn`t do it. But they -- you`re saying they must have gotten angry. What leads you to believe that they acted out of a crime of passion? How do I know they didn`t plan this the night before and wait for mom to come in and stab her in her own bedroom?
I mean, to me, it looks like an ambush. Mom is in her own bedroom and these two little twin she-devils come in and stab their mom.
JENSEN: I would just say, even though they`re young, if you`re going to plan a homicide, and I`ve investigated plenty of juveniles for homicide, and they came up with better plans than this. There`s a history of violence, there`s a history of anger. I think they came home, like we`ve discussed, the sex allegations, they got mad, bam. And I`ve seen -- I`ve had cases where there were, I mean, almost a hundred stab wounds, and it`s just this anger, just blind rage. And then what do they do? They run out and grab the nearest cop they can find and come up with this story. And sure enough --
GRACE: Well, in this case, they did a little more than that, Jensen. Because -- back to the lawyers. Teresa Ross, Manuelian, and Eliot.
Teresa Ross, cops still haven`t found the murder weapon. So whoever committed this crime was not that stupid.
TERESA ROSS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s true. And in addition to not finding the murder weapon, there`s also going to be an issue with the fact that these are identical twins. So if they do find DNA at the home, it`s going to be hard to tell if it`s Jasmiyah or Jasmiyah`s DNA.
GRACE: Oh, Teresa Ross, you`re so right.
Dr. Kent Harshbarger, do identical twins share the same DNA?
DR. KENT HARSHBARGER, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: For our purposes, they do. They can`t differentiate.
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GRACE: Can you imagine? A mom saying if anything happens to me, my twin girls did it?
Unleash the lawyers, Jim Elliott, John Manuelian, Teresa Ross, I actually had a murder case where there were three defendants, two of them were twin, all right? Not easy. They do share the same DNA. Luckily in the case that I had, it was a shooting rampage over a handful of dope ropes, the gold chains that dopers wear around their necks. But in this case it`s a stabbing, which is a whole another can of worms, Jim Elliott. Because you know when you stab, very often, the knife slips and the killer gets cut on their hand. But here, they`ve got the same DNA, Jim.
JIM ELLIOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you are right. But you always have the issue of dual perpetrators of the same crime. So, there are certain defenses available, but there are certain protections for the prosecution in that situation as well.
GRACE: But if they`re counting on DNA, how are they going to prove which twin? I mean, based on the wounds, you can`t show that there`s two perpetrators, Jim.
ELLIOTT: Nancy if there were two perpetrators, one was -- one was actually involved in the act and the other one was present and took no action, I think two young ladies could be prosecuted.
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GRACE: OK, here`s the problem, Teresa Ross, John Manuelian, Jim Elliott, identical twin, they have the same DNA. Don`t have a murder weapon so you don`t have finger prints on the knife.
Got a problem. This is how I see that they could prove it, Manuelian. Number one, right now, they are not -- the two twins are not living together, they`re in two separate facilities.
So I imagine you could get each to blame the other. That may not happen because the incredible twin bond, unless they talked, unless they told somebody, texted each other, something in the interim that will implicate both of them, Manuelian.
MANUELIAN: And if they don`t, then obviously, it`s going to be something that the defense is going to argue that there`s not enough evidence to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
GRACE: OK. What about it, Teresa?
ROSS: I`m with you on that. And additionally, if there`s any other finger prints in the house twins also share identical fingerprint. So that -- there`s no way that you could show which one committed the murder.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Yucca Harris, best friend of the mom, victim, Nikki Whitehead.
Yucca, what do you believe police have to prove this case, that the two teen twin girls, identical, murder their mom?
HARRIS: Just seeing the evidence on her body somebody beat her as well. They do have dental impressions.
GRACE: I`m telling you, unless it was a sex freak, nobody bites except for a girl, unless it is a sex freak. The biting. The hair pulling. All that.
HARRIS: Right.
GRACE: OK. So dental impressions that, important, not great, it`s OK. What else do they have beside dental impressions?.
HARRIS: When the house was released, we were told they have forensic. We that heard somebody may have washed some clothes. Someone did the laundry.
GRACE: Jim Elliot, Manuelian and Theresa Ross -- put them up, I want to see their faces. Don`t see -- there they are.
Think bloody fingerprints and think neat freaks doing the laundry. I guess they haven`t been watching our show. Because you can`t get DNA out by a washing machine. All right? Detergent bleach doesn`t work. You`ve got to use something like muriatic acid to get rid of DNA.
So suddenly the twins turned into neat freaks, and they do a little laundry. There you have it. And you can go on and on about the twins have the same DNA, and they have the same fingerprints, well, they don`t have the same teeth, people. And we`ve got dental impressions in this case. So I`ll let you chew on that.
But right now let`s remember Army Staff Sergeant Jack Martin, III, 26, Bethany, Oklahoma. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Meritorious Award. Loved outdoors, traveling, basketball. Leaves behind parents Jack Jr. and Cheryl, brother, Abe, sisters Mandy, Amber, Abby. Widow, Ashley.
Jack Martin, III, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you.
Happy birthday to New Jersey friend, Susan. Here she is with husband, Norm. And our show regular, Robyn Walensky.
Everyone, Dr. Drew up next. I will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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