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Nancy Grace
Mom`s Boyfriend Took Her Daughter?
Aired September 04, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, South Carolina. A 15-year-old high school cheerleader, Ridge View High, asleep in her home bedroom when mom happens to check on her at 3:00 AM. At 7:30, she`s gone, Gabby never seen again.
Bombshell tonight. Investigators certain they have rock-solid evidence Gabby did not leave home willingly. Tonight, who snatched Gabby from her own bedroom? Tonight, we chase the leads. Where`s the cheerleader, 15-year-old Gabrielle?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A cheerleader at Ridge View High School.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators have collected blood in Gabby Swainson`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found blood in the bedroom. It`s her blood. It was blood that should not have been there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freddie Grant, a man deputies say kidnapped 15- year-old Gabby Swainson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Described as a family friend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) friend, seen here in this video assisting in the search just days after she was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the sickest part of this to me that makes me sick to my stomach is knowing that -- and watching that he was part of the search.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do have a close friend that was helping me with some remodeling in my house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually does yard work for them (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duct tape with Gabby`s blood found in the junkyard across the railroad tracks from his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a monster and that he holds the key to finding Gabby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. We are live, South Carolina. A 15-year-old girl, a high school cheerleader there at Ridge View High, asleep in her own bedroom. Her mom happens to check on her at 3:00 AM. A lot of us moms do that. You`re walking through the house, something wakes you up, whatever, you go check on your children. Mom did just that at 3:00 AM. At 7:30 AM, the girl is gone, Gabby never seen again.
Investigators tell us that they are certain they have rock-solid evidence Gabrielle did not leave home willingly. Someone snatched her from her own bedroom. Who? And why?
We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out to Dave Mack, morning talk show host joining us from Clear Channel WAAX. Dave, a lot has happened since the last time we discussed Gabby. But one thing we know, investigators are so certain that she was taken from the home unwillingly because there is blood evidence, Dave Mack.
DAVE MACK, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX: Yes, ma`am. They found blood in her bedroom. They found blood on duct tape along with hair. They have found blood -- they`ve been able to type it back to her using DNA. That`s why they know who their suspect is. He just isn`t talking.
GRACE: You know, the reality is, is a lot of people may hear our program tonight and say, Oh, she was probably running with the wrong crowd. She was probably out late at night. Who knows. She could have been doing this, that. No. This was an honors student. Gabrielle is an honors student. Not only that, she was part of the Praise Band at her church, was going to a special magnet school for children that are interested in pursuing medicine, straight-A student, varsity cheerleader, a dream, what you want your girl to grow into.
We are taking your calls. Out to Sharon in Michigan. Hi, Sharon. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. I love your tenacity. When you want something, go after it. My question is, this person, whoever came into the home, how did they enter the house? Was there a key? If it`s a boyfriend, someone must have had a key to enter. If not, were there any windows broken? And was -- did she go out the front door or a window?
GRACE: OK, hold Sharon in Michigan. Hold Sharon in Michigan. I don`t know if you are a amateur or a professional investigator, but that is exactly where police usually start an investigation. And speaking of, I`m hearing in my ear he`s just joining me right now, Sheriff Leon Lott, Richland County sheriff`s department.
Sheriff, again, thank you for being with us. Everybody, the tip line 1-888-CRIME-SC. There is a $7,000 reward.
Sheriff Lott, I understand that there was no forced entry in the home. Is that correct?
SHERIFF LEON LOTT, RICHLAND COUNTY, SC (via telephone): That`s correct. There was no forced entry whatsoever in windows nor the doors.
GRACE: No doors pried open, no windows broken. It leads you to think someone could have had a key. But let me tell you this, Sheriff Leon Lott. I was away on vacation a couple of weeks ago, turn on the bath water, and guess who locked the bathroom door and shut it behind them? My 4-year-old twins, with the tub running. The tub was getting higher and higher and higher. I didn`t even know the bathroom door had a lock on it.
I took out my driver`s license and jimmied it and broke in just as the water was about to pour down and flood the rental unit. All right, so it can -- you can break in a door and it look like there has been no forced entry. Isn`t that true, Sheriff?
LOTT: That`s correct. But we checked the doors very closely and there`s no pry marks or anything that looked like it had been forced in whatsoever.
GRACE: But Sheriff, a driver`s license does not leave a pry mark. It depends on the type of door lock. What kind of lock did they have on that back door, Sheriff?
LOTT: They had a deadbolt lock which was not secure, just a regular door lock. And that door was locked when Gabby`s mother left. She made sure the door was locked, not using the deadbolt, only the lock on the doorknob (ph).
GRACE: You know, I want to go out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, here`s the thing. A lot of suspicion has been focused on the guy that was doing yard work for them. How hard is it in this country to get a rap sheet, to look at somebody`s rap sheet? It`s not hard, Ellie!
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. But I think, unfortunately, people don`t know that they can often go down to their local sheriff`s department, and there in South Carolina, you pay about $24, $25, and you can get somebody`s criminal record. If you go on line and try to do it yourself, you`re going to be asked for your credit card number, and you may get a rap sheet that either doesn`t come up at all or isn`t or isn`t the right person.
GRACE: Ellie, all you have to do is go down to the GBI, the Tennessee -- the TBI, whatever the arm is in your state. It costs about 25 bucks. You can get a rap sheet. Don`t waste your time trying to do it on line. It doesn`t work and you may get somebody else`s rap sheet.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: You can empower yourself in cases like this.
A lot is breaking, and it`s breaking fast in this case. Out to -- who do I have? Ashley in Florida. Hi, Ashley. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. And I was calling to see if the handyman-slash-mom`s boyfriend had agreed to take a polygraph or if he has taken a polygraph. And if so, what were the results?
GRACE: Liz, cue up that sound of when Sheriff Lott was with us before talking about the handyman. Take a look at 52-year-old Freddie Grant. He had been cutting the grass that Friday, right? She goes missing. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: How is he connected to the family? What`s the relationship?
LOTT: He is an acquaintance of Gabby`s mother. He actually does yard work for them and had cut their grass that Friday afternoon.
GRACE: So he was cutting the grass, what, the day before, is that what you said?
LOTT: Right. Friday evening, and she went missing on early that Saturday morning. That late afternoon on Friday, he was there at the house and was doing yard work.
GRACE: Is he a boyfriend?
LOTT: No, acquaintance. We`re -- we`re -- she`s not saying he`s a boyfriend, he`s an acquaintance and a family friend. He knew Gabby also.
GRACE: Sheriff Leon Lott, I`m getting inundated, overwhelmed with calls that -- tipping our show off that the mom, Gabby`s mom, and this guy had been dating for some time. Is that true?
LOTT: That relationship hasn`t been described that way to us. It`s more of an acquaintance than it was a girlfriend and boyfriend, a family friend and acquaintance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: ... Sheriff Leon Lott. He is the elected sheriff in Richland County. Now, Sheriff, I happen to know that you and your people have crossed your T`s and dotted your I`s. You have looked under every rock. You`ve been out literally beating the streets, looking under bushes for evidence, doing everything you can to crack this case.
But several days into the investigation, you were still being told that Freddie Grant just cut the grass and did remodeling. Is that correct?
LOTT: The mom`s always said that he was an acquaintance. What we`ve discovered is they started dating in 2007, dated for a short time, and then she broke it off. And then starting again in October of 2011, they started back seeing each other.
But she classifies the relationship as an acquaintance, but they have dated.
GRACE: Is it true that at a certain point, he, Freddie Grant, had had damage to his home and he was allowed to live in the home for a period of time?
LOTT: Yes, that`s correct.
GRACE: All right. Do I still have Ashley in Florida with me? Ashley, what was your question? I know you were asking -- oh, it was about polygraphs. Sheriff Leon Lott, has he been offered a polygraph? I doubt he would take one if he won`t even talk.
LOTT: No, we had never gotten that far. From the very initial conversation with him, the first thing out of his mouth is, Don`t talk to me. I want my attorney. Talk to my attorney.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. With me right now is a special guest. This is Gabby`s father, Alvin Thompson. He is joining us from Tennessee tonight.
Mr. Thompson, thank you for being with us.
ALVIN THOMPSON, FATHER (via telephone): Yes. How are you?
GRACE: Mr. Thompson, I`m fine. I want to find out how you were alerted that Gabby had gone missing.
THOMPSON: When I was home Saturday and Elvia called me. I was home in Virginia (ph). She called me and told me that Gabby was lost or whatever (INAUDIBLE) friends, and she said she didn`t think so, that they were going to look for her. So (INAUDIBLE) that was that.
GRACE: With me is Alvin Thompson. This is Gabby`s father. When you were first alerted that Gabby had gone missing from her own bedroom, was there any discussion at that time what may have happened to her?
THOMPSON: Well, I didn`t really know that she was missing from her bedroom. She just said she was not there and they couldn`t find her, or whatever. So I just -- I stayed up in Virginia until Monday because I thought, well, maybe Gabby with one of her friends or something, although she don`t run away or nothing like that. Maybe she was with one of her friends or something.
So (INAUDIBLE) and then I called -- I sent my brother over there Sunday because he lives in Columbia. And he said it didn`t look right. So I came down there (INAUDIBLE) and one of my daughters (INAUDIBLE) a grandkid came down Monday evening.
And just I don`t know. Something don`t seem right about the whole thing to me at all. Something -- something`s not being said. Something`s -- something`s (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that, Mr. Thompson?
THOMPSON: The whole story don`t make sense to me and stuff. You know, I -- everything that`s being said, and it`s -- it`s -- the way I view it, the way I see it, that even if she was talking with this guy Freddie Grant, or they was boyfriend and girlfriend, which it doesn`t matter, it wasn`t about her at this time. It was about Gabby being found. So if she (INAUDIBLE) said something solid (ph) when the police supposedly (ph) came out there, that this guy was here, then they could have just pulled him right out of their computers, and this would have been resolved already, in my opinion.
I`m not throwing blame at anyone, but this was, like, you`re holding back on something. And if my kid come up missing and I`m out (ph) with somebody and they ask me who, I`m going to tell them where I was. I don`t care who gets upset about it or whatever. I`m going to tell them exactly what happened so we can quickly resolve this and maybe I can get my kid back real quick.
So it`s just the whole thing just don`t make a lot of sense to me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grant has refused to say anything to law enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thing that makes me sick to my stomach is knowing that and watching that he was part of the search.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hundreds of volunteers are going door to door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help us find Gabby!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man accused of kidnapping Gabby is Freddie Grant, seen here in this video assisting in the search just days after she was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got out with the family, with Gabby`s mother, and how he walked and he handed out flyers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quiet and reserved, kind of kept to himself a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, I can`t even believe I`m going through this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A cheerleader at Ridge View High School.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not found Gabby yet. We`re still actively looking for her and hoping to be able to return her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. This 15-year-old varsity cheerleader missing from her own bedroom. Mom happens to check on her at 3:00 AM. At 7:30, she`s gone, no forced entry at the home. A lot of suspicion is being placed on what we were told was the yard guy. He had done some remodeling in the home. He had worked in the yard. Now we`re finding out -- and it is being confirmed by multiple sources -- that he had been mom`s boyfriend.
Now, I don`t know how the wires got crossed, but I can guarantee you they weren`t crossed at the Richland County sheriff`s department. That`s not where the wires got crossed. What was told to them is that he was just a family friend.
But now think about it. Now we know that he was -- he had access to the home. He probably knew where the spare key was. He knew the ins and the outs. He may have known this 15-year-old girl`s daily routine.
I want to go back out to Sheriff Leon Lott. When she was taken from the home -- and you were telling us from the very beginning there`s no doubt she was taken against her will -- what in the home led you to believe she was taken against her will?
LOTT: We found blood on -- we found her blood on her bed and then also somewhere else in her bedroom. So -- and there`s no reason for her blood to be present like that. And the fact there was no forced entries into the house, and just Gabby`s whole character -- Gabby`s not a runaway. Gabby would not have went anywhere with anybody voluntarily. So we know she was kidnapped. And we know Freddie Grant...
GRACE: Well, Sheriff, hold on right there. I got another question for you. You say you found blood on the bed. Now, Sheriff, a lot is going to be determined about that blood on the bed. Was it blood spatter? Could it have been from a cut? Could it have been menstrual blood? How do you - - what about that was so suspicious? Was it the fact that there was blood elsewhere in the room that you -- there was -- it couldn`t be explained away in an innocent manner?
LOTT: That`s correct. It was not menstrual blood. We know that. And there was blood found somewhere else also in the bedroom, too. So putting those two things together, on the bed and then the other place, we just believed that it was not just a cut that you would have on your finger and get blood in your bed like that.
GRACE: And isn`t true -- to Dr. Jennifer Shu, pediatrician and co- author of "Heading Home With Your Newborn" -- Dr. Shu, it`s an easy test. You can tell the difference microscopically between blood from a cut or a wound versus menstrual blood. That`s very easy to determine.
DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN: Right. The menstrual blood is also going to be mixed with fluid from the vagina or cervical fluid. And so that can definitely be picked up in the test.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers, Jennifer Smetters, Chicago, Alex Sanchez, New York. Also joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar. Thank you for being with us, Ana.
I want to go first to Jennifer Smetters. Jennifer, from what I understand, the yard guy is now not speaking to police at all. Now, if he were innocent, don`t you think he would be giving his alibi, he would be exclaiming how he had nothing to do with this? He would be telling cops when and if the girl had ever been in his home. Instead, he`s totally clammed up. He`s not speaking at all.
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Telltale sign, I think, here is that if you can`t say anything, you`ve got something to hide. And again, every defendant has the right to their attorney, but here, if he really had this child`s best interests at heart, he would be speaking freely about everything and anything he knows. Instead, he`s impeding the police`s investigation. And it`s -- it`s -- it`s unspeakable!
GRACE: You know, what is bugging me, Anahita, is while we`re out beating the bushes, looking for Gabby, her mother can`t even eat, he`s having, let`s see, cereal, toast, coffee and fruit. I didn`t have that for breakfast. Nobody prepared it for me. Lunch, spaghetti, salad, bread and milk. Tonight, chicken casserole, rice, veggies, dessert and milk.
Why? Why is he kicked back with all of the amenities having food served to him while all I want to know is where is Gabby, Anahita? what about that?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you know, Nancy, my heart definitely goes out to this mother. I cannot imagine the pain that she`s feeling, not knowing where her daughter is. But hey, there are plenty of reasons why we as defense attorneys advise our clients not to speak to the police without an attorney, the least of which is guilt or innocence here.
We`ve seen time and time again where individuals suspected of a crimes speak with the police department, and their statements get twisted. We see false confessions. We see, you know, memory lapses misconstrued as outright lies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A cheerleader at Ridge View High School.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators have collected blood in Gabby Swainson`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found blood in the bedroom, and it`s her blood. It was blood that should not have been there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freddie Grant, a man deputies say kidnapped 15- year-old Gabby Swainson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Described as a family friend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) friend, seen here in this video assisting in the search just days after she was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the sickest part of this to me that makes me sick to my stomach is knowing that and watching that he was part of the search.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. And at this hour, we are learning not only was there blood in Gabby`s bedroom.
Think about it, moms, how many times in the night do you wake up, you go to the bathroom, you want to go turn on the coffee for in the morning, you want to check the door, whatever, and you just go check on your children. You should look at them. I make sure they`re still breathing.
This mom checks her child at 3:00 a.m. At 7:30, she`s gone. That was the last time she ever saw her daughter.
Right now under suspicion is the yard guy, who`s done some remodeling as well. We`re now discovering, everything is progressing, that he may have dated the mom in the past.
We are taking your calls. Another major, major development we`re just getting right now is that there may be evidence in his home. DNA evidence in home.
Do you know this man? Have you ever hired him as your handyman? As your yard man to do remodeling, to buy pine straw from this guy?
Look at this man, Freddie Grant, aged 52. Please help Richland County sheriffs do their job, 1-888-CRIME-SC.
There`s a chance that this little girl is still alive. A 15-year-old varsity cheerleader, honor student in a magnet school for children planning to study medicine. She`s in high school. She plays an instrument in the church`s praise band.
Come on, what more do you -- this girl is scrubbed in sunshine. She`s not -- hasn`t run off with some teen boyfriend, she hasn`t met somebody on the interstate, she needs us. The sheriff`s department needs us tonight.
We are taking your calls. Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, I guess you heard that menu, I don`t guess anybody brought you cereal, toast, coffee and fruit this morning, did they? Or maybe spaghetti, salad, bread and milk for your lunch. And if you`re going to have dinner after the show, chicken casserole, rice, veggies, dessert and milk. Nobody brought me anything on a tray.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you know, no matter which way you cut it, Nancy, being in jail is not a great place to be. But you know you keep touching upon an issue, and you`re not going into the significance of it. And that is why in god`s name would the mother somewhat disguise her relationship with this guy?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Now let`s blame it on her.
SANCHEZ: By telling the police initially he`s an acquaintance of hers, we`re finding out from third parties that maybe he had a romantic relationship or that even lived in the house. Isn`t that significant issue which should cause the police to ask questions of her?
GRACE: Put him up.
OK, so I`m just going to go with you, Sanchez. I`m going to agree with you that the mother did not tell everybody she had dated this guy. OK? Where is that guy? Other than the mother who has not eaten a bite since her daughter went missing, who can`t even stand up right now, she`s in such grief,.
So she dated him. Now where does that get me? Where is that advancing the investigation, unless you`re saying the mom was somehow involved, and if you`re saying that, you can tear his mike off right now.
SANCHEZ: No, I am not saying that. I`m saying that it raises a question in my mind, as it should raise a question in your mind.
GRACE: A question as to --
SANCHEZ: How come information wasn`t up clear and up front from the beginning just like this girl`s father was asking before?
GRACE: I know, but even if it`s true, and I agree with you, Sanchez, you`re preaching to the choir right now. She should have given it up at the get-go, I`ve got her on tape saying he was an acquaintance. All right. Fine. So she hid the fact that she had dated him.
Now where does that help me?
SANCHEZ: Well --
GRACE: How have I advanced the search for Gabby? Or have I?
SANCHEZ: Let me tell you something, the next issue --
GRACE: Or am I supposed to (INAUDIBLE) on the mom for no reason?
SANCHEZ: No, the next issue is that you said there was no evidence that the house had been broken into. Well, that would -- that could -- two conclusions can be drawn from that.
GRACE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Number one, somebody had access to that house.
GRACE: Right.
SANCHEZ: And went in and took her. The second conclusion is that she left her on her own volition. And I`m not --
GRACE: Well, what about the blood?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, you know what?
GRACE: You`ve got to start with the blood, Sanchez. The blood.
SANCHEZ: The blood is informing but I`d like to know whether or not the police have been able to age that blood. I mean was the blood there, not there shortly before she left?
GRACE: You know better than me. You know as well as me that you can`t date a DNA. But I bet -- I bet they know whether it completely dried or not.
I want to ask you, Sheriff, Sheriff Lott, you know where this is going, all right? That the mother, that somehow they`re hiding something. Other people had seen Gabby in the hours leading up to that night, so it`s not as if she`s been missing for two weeks and the mom is just telling us now. But he wants to know how do you know the blood was recent, Sheriff Lott?
SHERIFF LEON LOTT, RICHLAND COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: If it`s fresh blood, we could still (INAUDIBLE). You could tell it was fresh blood. And the mom never concealed the fact that she had dated him. Her description was an acquaintance not as a boyfriend but she never hid the fact that she had dated him. So that`s a mute point as far as we`re concerned.
GRACE: OK. And you know, Sheriff, there`s so many side alleys that you can run down and chase down, but the reality is, is that we know she was alive that night. It was -- there are independent sources that know Gabby was there and alive that night, not just the mom. We know there`s blood there, but here`s -- here`s the homerun, knowing that it was forcible, the blood in her home, and isn`t it true, Sheriff Lott, that there is DNA in his home of Gabby`s?
LOTT: That`s correct. Yes. And multiple places, not only on the duct tape which also had Gabby`s hair and blood, but her DNA was found in other places in his house also.
GRACE: Put up, Sanchez, Smetters, and (INAUDIBLE).
All right, Sanchez, can you give me one good scenario where this girl`s blood blood and hair is on duct tape in the handyman` home?
SANCHEZ: Without knowing more information, I can`t. But one of the issues that`s coming up --
GRACE: All right.
SANCHEZ: -- by the defense attorneys, Nancy, is how did the police -- and maybe the sheriff can give us that information. How did the -- how did the sheriff enter into the apartment of Mr. Grant? Did they do it with a court order?
GRACE: You`re going back to the -- with a search warrant. All right. They had a search warrant.
Sheriff Lott, you had a search warrant to search his place, right?
LOTT: That`s correct. (INAUDIBLE) with him from the beginning after we received (INAUDIBLE) with us. (INAUDIBLE) search, and watch some clues and getting a search warrant for his DNA. So we`ve done it legally.
GRACE: Come on, Sheriff, you know the defense is in trouble when they`re saying, he didn`t do it, he didn`t do it, he didn`t do it, oh, did you have a search warrant? All right? Because then you`re starting to get into technicalities.
We`re taking your calls. Jerry in Texas. Hi, Jerry, what`s your question?
JERRY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hey, Nancy, we love you in Galveston, Texas, by the way.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
JERRY: I wanted to know --
GRACE: I`m still not over Fred Durst, all right? On -- remember, when his neighbor Mars Black`s head washed up in Galveston Bay? Still not over that acquittal.
What`s your question, Jerry? Thank you for calling in.
JERRY: Yes. They said that Grant had an extensive history, criminal history. I wanted to know if there was anything entailed in those priors with abductions or child molestation charges?
GRACE: Jerry in Texas, you are dead on.
Ellie Jostad, what`s the story?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Sheriff Lott mentioned last week that Freddie Grant did have a kidnapping and aggravated assault charge in his history. Now there are reports that that actually happened when he was in the Army, that he served time at Ft. Leavenworth for that charge. And then he`s got a bunch of charges for cocaine, for resisting arrest, for a laundry list of other minor charges as well.
GRACE: To Faye Alexander, news director at Newstalk WIS. Faye, thanks for being with us. She`s joining us from Columbia, South Carolina.
Faye, what`s the story about the mom telling everybody he just does yard work and then it comes out they`ve been dating. That doesn`t change the scenario, but what was her thinking? Why did she do that?
FAYE ALEXANDER, NEWS DIRECTOR, NEWSTALK 1320 WIS: I`m not sure if mom was maybe ashamed, but I know that mom had always been up front with the sheriff`s department. As far as the investigation has gone, she has not held anything back. It could be, I can`t believe I was sleeping with the monster that abducted my child, kind of situation. She`s got to be in some way blaming herself for that.
GRACE: So let`s focus off the mom for a minute. And let`s focus on this girl, this girl, the man now under suspicion, the yard guy, actually went along on the search for Gabby. Acting as if nothing was wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is what it`s consuming every minute of Elvia Swainson`s day since her daughter Gabby Swainson vanished from her home just over two weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the sickest part of this --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The man accused of kidnapping Gabby is 52-year-old Freddie Grant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And watching that he was part of the search.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Seen here in this video assisting in the search just days after she was reported missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. In the last moments literally, we are learning more about the physical evidence, including this girl, this little cheerleader`s blood, her DNA and her hair found on duct tape.
I want to go out to Fred in Illinois. Hi, Fred. What`s your question?
FRED, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Yes, Nancy. I know you`re taking up for the mom, but I don`t mean to be pouncing on this mom here, but I feel like something is wrong. Was she lying to the cops? And she saw the investigation. I mean if my daughter goes missing, I`m going to tell the cops who I said hi with that day. Everything I was with, and I feel like she`s hiding something.
GRACE: And your point is, Fred? Unless you`re claiming the mom is somehow involved in the girl`s disappearance.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What difference does it make?
FRED: That makes a lot of difference.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Fred? Fred? You`re right. You got me over the barrel on that.
Hold Fred in Illinois.
Out to Sheriff Leon Lott, he is the Richland County`s sheriff -- elected sheriff.
Sheriff, did that in any way stall the investigation?
LOTT: No, she was very upfront with us on everything about Freddie Grant and anybody else. She has cooperated 100 percent from the very beginning. Mom is not involved in this, mom can`t be held responsible for it. Mom dated a monster and she did not know she was dating a monster, but she has been upfront with us on everything that we`ve asked her and she has gone forward with all the information. So she hasn`t stalled us one bit.
GRACE: If I`m not mistaken, Liz, is -- check the number on the dialing, please.
Fred, aren`t you the same caller that called me when this story -- when we first started looking for Gabby and blamed the mom for working, for going into the office late at night? You know, there`s been a lot going back and forth, Leslie Seppinni -- Leslie Seppinni, joining me out of L.A., clinical psychologist and author.
The mom worked I believe is it at Blue Cross? Blue Shield? Jump in, Ellie, if I`m wrong, and she processes claims and she went in early in the morning like at 3:30 a.m., processed claims for three or four hours then comes home. That`s the reason she was up to check on the daughter, to happen to check on the daughter before she left.
And I`ve had a lot of callers, I might just point out coincidentally, they`re all men, that are whining that the mom left to go to work. And why would she do that. The reality is she wanted to be with her daughter in her daughter`s waking hours and would often go in in the middle of the night and process claims and come back home.
Leslie Seppinni, I remember my mother wallpapering, doing her accounting job, scrubbing the bathroom floor, doing the laundry at all hours of the day and night, working, I could hear the calculator going in the other room, working at night, late at night when I was in bed and I was supposedly asleep. I don`t find this odd at all.
LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t find it particularly odd particularly in this economy where there are so many people being laid off. You`re taking a pay`s load for other people particularly in claims processing. That`s not unusual.
GRACE: So in this economy then I would find it unusual if she didn`t go in even if it`s some crazy hour, Leslie Seppinni.
So what about that, Fred in Illinois?
FRED: Well, you know, it wasn`t me who called but I did find that strange that she works in the middle of the night, leaving the kid. I don`t care if they`re 15, 13, I just think somebody needs to be home. I don`t care what kind of an economy it is, I just feel like you got to be watching your kid.
GRACE: Fred, do you have any children?
FRED: No.
GRACE: Out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert.
Ben, she had an iPhone. Now I don`t have one yet, but you know you can put it on a certain control and it follows you, it can show you which way to go. Is that stored anywhere? Can I look up where she went on her iPhone, what do you call it? Find me? Map? What -- I don`t know what it`s called.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, absolutely, Nancy. One of the probably most important pieces of evidence that answer a lot of the questions about this relationship between the gardener and the family is let`s look at his phone records for the month before this abduction. Now it`s very common that we will see a change in pattern, perhaps, the gardener was in a relationship or speaking every day to Gabby, we don`t know.
I mean this will clear up things, a lot of times what I see is right before an event happens, maybe one party cuts off communication, the phone records for the last month are going to give us a lot of information. There was no forced entry. Could the daughter have possibly opened the door for him? Was there a call at 4:00 in the morning that said, hey, I forgot something in the house, would you let me in?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Here are some shots we got of a tour inside the Lexington County Detention Center. That is where Freddie Grant, sitting right now, refusing to speak to police.
Out to Michael Sapraicone, former NYPD detective, president of Squad Security.
Sapraicone, thank you for being with us. He won`t talk. He is kicked back right now, enjoying a nice dinner, chicken casserole, rice, veggies, dessert and milk. He`s not going to talk, is he?
MICHAEL SAPRAICONE, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE PRESIDENT OF SQUAD SECURITY INC.: No, there`s no reason for him to say anything, I mean, especially now, we know we have some evidence in his home. He`s not going to -- he doesn`t want to say anything about that. No good defense attorney will have him talk.
The cops` job to take it from now, and say listen, listen, we need to talk a little bit, Freddie. You have to help yourself here. We need to understand what went wrong, what happened? What caused this problem?
And that`s the way you have to approach it.
GRACE: Sheriff Lott, isn`t it true that your people have tried everything allowable under the constitution to get him to talk?
LOTT: That`s correct. And if nothing else, just tell us where Gabby is at so her mother won`t be in pain any more. And we`ve attempted that but again his attorney refused to allow us to even interview him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: So let`s talk to Ellie Jostad, David Mack, Faye Alexander.
Ellie, what does this guy do for a living? What do we know?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, his brother tell us that he drove a truck, that he may have made deliveries in the area. But as far as anybody else can tell, he was doing handyman jobs, he distributed pine straw around to the neighborhoods, sold that to people, did odd jobs, remodeling, yard work that kind of thing.
GRACE: OK. So but what I know about his links to other cases, Ellie, and his background.
I mean, Dave Mack, what are his links to other cases? I don`t want this guy fixing my refrigerator.
DAVE MACK, MORNING TALK SHOW HOST, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX RADIO: No, and I think that`s -- this is the scary thing. Since their investigation into her disappearance, they have uncovered his -- well, he`s person of interest in two other major crimes, one is the disappearance of his last girlfriend. He was the last person to see her alive. And he is also a person of interest in another homicide.
GRACE: To Alvin Thompson, this is Gabby`s father, joining us and taking your calls. I bet her mom had no idea who this guy really was.
ALVIN THOMPSON, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL GABBY SWAINSON: Are you speaking with me?
GRACE: Yes, sir, Mr. Thompson. I bet Gabby`s mom had no idea who was in her home.
THOMPSON: I agree with you. I`m sitting here listening to all you guys and we all sitting and blaming Ellie and all that stuff, but we can`t blame Ellie for none of this. Ellie was a good mom to Gabby, really strict on her. And I felt I never had to worry about Gabby. She was a problem child.
I never had to worry about her, her mom was always there for her. And her mom will bring the tight on Gaby. She`s really tight on Gabby. So I wouldn`t think that she would ever have anything to do with hurting Gabby.
GRACE: Never.
THOMPSON: Unaware of all this stuff. But we just need Freddie tell us. So we all sit there and talk. Let`s get out and find my daughter. I mean we could --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Mr. Thompson, you are so right. And this is a wakeup call to everybody in this country that is hearing our program tonight about people that you think you can trust.
Tip line, 888-CRIME-SC.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Brandon Steffey, 23, Sault Sainte Marie, Michigan, second tour, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service medal. Beautiful smile, big bear hugs. Leaves behind parents Dennis and Rachel, sister, Heather, widow, Andy, daughter, Abigail.
Brandon Steffey, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And happy birthday to Chicago friend, Denise, Advocate for wounded warriors. Victims and support Wounded Warriors.
Dr. Drew up next.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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