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Nancy Grace
Toddler Hits the Stage With Fake Cigarette
Aired September 12, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Overnight sensation reality show "Toddlers and Tiaras" with showstoppers like 6-year-old Honey Boo-Boo, little Maddy Burke (ph) and 3-year-old toddler girl Hazlie Dickey (ph), the extremely lucrative and extremely controversial hit reality show that showcases little girls as young as 18 months old in JonBenet Ramsey- style beauty pageants, padded push-up bras, sexy fake butt enhancers, stage makeup, hair, tiny bikinis -- frankly, a pedophile`s dream.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, yet another stunning toddler stunt on the so-called reality show. Is the "Toddlers and Tiaras" gravy train set to hit the skids? Tonight, new claims of child abuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, (INAUDIBLE) please welcome to the stage contestant number 27. A big round of applause for Destiny!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t forget to smoke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They dressed Paisley (ph) up like Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman," as a prostitute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she wears the fake boobs and the fake butt, it`s just like it puts some added, you know, added bonus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) boo-boo child!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would definitely not give my child a real cigarette.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to win the biggest (INAUDIBLE) Money! Money!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Destiny comes out with a cigarette in her mouth. Destiny has a cigarette. What is she thinking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pageant moms already take a huge rap for what we`re doing to our little girls, and it`s outfits like that that give us a bad rap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. The overnight hit reality show "Toddlers and Tiaras," padded push-up bras, sexy fake butt enhancers, stage makeup, stage hair, tiny bikinis, a pedophile`s dream. But tonight, is the "Toddlers and Tiaras" gravy train set to hit the skids after multiple claims of child abuse?
And now, toddler Destiny shocking viewers, swaggering onto a stage with a wild mess of teased hair, a puffy black leather jacket and a cigarette between the toddler`s lips, her own mother reprimanding her just before she goes on stage, Don`t forget to smoke. Her mother telling her, Don`t forget to smoke? This as controversy swirling as one of the "Toddler and Tiara" dads tries to wrench custody away from the child`s mother.
We are taking your calls. Out to Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer." Mike, not only that, in another story, Honey Boo-Boo, another one of these little girls, is put inside of a wrestling ring. When is it going to end, Mike?
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): It`s just stunning. I wrote a book, as you know, on reality TV, predicting that -- where we would go. I never realized we`d go this far.
Unless people think that this is, you know, city people looking down on nice country folks, let me give you a quote that we got. And we`ve done, as you know, tons of stories on these people -- from a neighbor in Georgia who said, They`re giving -- these people, the Honey Boo-Boo family, are giving country folk in Georgia a bad name. Quote, "These aren`t real rednecks or country people, they`re just white trash. People around here are ashamed of them."
As you know, I mean, she -- she -- Honey Boo-Boo`s mother has...
GRACE: Mike Walker...
WALKER: ... four daughters by four...
GRACE: Mike Walker...
WALKER: ... different men.
GRACE: Mike Walker, number one, I`m not here to run a popularity contest. I don`t mind if people look down on them or about their reputation or where they`re from or somebody calls them a redneck. Sticks and stones. Don`t care. Someone`s always going to hate someone else. I don`t care about that.
What I care about is child abuse! That`s what I care about. I don`t care who gossips over the fence. Oh, they`ve got a bad reputation. Don`t care!
What I care about is sticking a cigarette, fake or real, in a child`s mouth and saying, Don`t forget to smoke, to a 4-year-old little girl. I`m concerned about putting a toddler dressed up as a hooker on the stage. I`m concerned about putting a toddler girl on top of a bar to dance while people put money down her clothes and down her pants. I`m concerned about putting a 4-year-old little girl inside of a wrestling ring!
Tonight, I`m worried about this little girl smoking, Mike Walker. Tell me about the latest "Toddler and Tiara" controversy.
WALKER: Well, as you know, she came out on stage. The judges apparently had no warning of this. She was dressed, as you know -- the little girl was dressed as Sandy (ph), the character in "Grease" who wears the leather outfit. And Sandy comes out in the movie and she, if you remember, throws a cigarette butt down. And that`s kind of her entrance.
But if she hadn`t done that, if she hadn`t had the cigarette in her mouth, who would remember what Sandy did in "Grease"? That was the mother`s excuse, she was acting. The judges were shocked. They were paralyzed for the moment, and then finally, they -- they -- you know, they took away some points from her.
But she still got, you know, the title of number one personality, or whatever it is. I think it`s -- I think it`s horrifying. I cannot believe that any mother would send a child out to smoke in public on national television.
I mean, how shocking it was for people. I`m sure you`ve seen all the comments from people after the news stories that have run about it. People are just horrified. And I am, too.
GRACE: In just a few mown moments, we are going to be joined exclusively by Destiny`s mother.
But first I want to go out to one of the leading lung cancer researchers in the United States, Dr. Paul Scheinberg, pulmonologist, lung cancer specialist. Dr. Scheinberg, thank you for being with us. Question. How dangerous is lung cancer, Dr. Scheinberg?
DR. PAUL SCHEINBERG, LUNG CANCER SPECIALIST (via telephone): Lung cancer is a bad actor. Lung cancer kills more people than colon cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer combined. Lung cancer is a big killer. And when caught late, it is uniformly fatal.
GRACE: And especially, it effects women, does it not, differently than men?
SCHEINBERG: Yes. We`re seeing a huge increase of the incidence of lung cancer in women, even in never-smoking women, and younger women. This is a major change in the demographics of lung cancer over the course of the last 15 years.
GRACE: And Dr. Scheinberg, what is the danger, in your mind, of encouraging children as young as 4 years old to pretend-smoke?
SCHEINBERG: Well, I think this is insanity. This is absolute insanity because the question of whether the illusion that they think they`re creating is, in fact, mimicking reality or creating reality. It presents an iconic view that will`s going to be idolized by some. And for this mother to put her daughter in that position is absolute insanity and parental irresponsibility. The danger is that...
GRACE: With me is -- go ahead.
SCHEINBERG: Kids who smoke will more likely develop not only lung cancer, but chronic lung disease and vascular disease, many other diseases prematurely. It`s a devastating consequence.
GRACE: Everyone, with me is Dr. Paul Scheinberg. He is at this moment at a lung cancer research conference. And when my mother was diagnosed with a malignant tumor in her lungs, lung cancer, we sought him out, one of the leading lung cancer researchers in the United States.
And now I want to go to a special guest, joining me, Lisa Christian. This is Destiny`s mother, who is shown with a cigarette. Ms. Christian, thank you for being with us.
LISA CHRISTIAN, MOTHER OF 4-YEAR-OLD DESTINY (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: A lot of people want to know what you were thinking. I know that you were trying to have your daughter mimic the star of the "Grease" musical, but I believe there are many other possibilities in mimicking her than having her smoke.
CHRISTIAN: Well, first of all, it was our first (INAUDIBLE) pageant. We just wanted her to be competitive with the other girls. To me, pretending is not harming her. I smoked candy cigarettes when I was little. I don`t smoke. My parents don`t smoke.
And she has been taught that it is a health risk and that she knows the danger in smoking. And she is not your typical 4-year-old. She does know the difference between right and wrong.
GRACE: Question. As you know, it is illegal to sell cigarettes to minors, Ms. Christian. So with that in mind, why would you have your daughter pretend to smoke?
CHRISTIAN: It was just a prop, nothing more, nothing less. It was a fake piece of paper rolled up.
GRACE: Well, would you consider putting a fake gun in her hand?
CHRISTIAN: No, but...
GRACE: Or a fake machete or a fake...
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIAN: There is nothing wrong with...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Mine do not. Mine do not play cops and robbers. Mine don`t even have pretend guns. We don`t even say G-U-N because my fiance was murdered with a handgun many, many years ago. So we don`t play...
CHRISTIAN: But again...
GRACE: ... guns...
CHRISTIAN: ... that is to each their own. What I do with my child...
GRACE: Well, guess what, ma`am?
CHRISTIAN: ... may not be what you do with yours.
GRACE: That is so true. But does it, like, ring in your mind, or flash a red sign of alarm that legislatures have outlawed minors and cigarettes and you have your daughter pretending to smoke? And I believe your words were, "Don`t forget to smoke."
CHRISTIAN: Well, again, there`s a lot of editing that goes on in those shows that you all didn`t see.
GRACE: Tell me. I want to know that.
CHRISTIAN: And my child was only pretending, and she knows that she was only pretending. She`s not your typical 4-year-old.
GRACE: Well, tell me -- well, I would certainly agree with that. You say there was a lot of editing. OK. What did we not see?
CHRISTIAN: There was a lot of stuff. There was her gymnastics. There was dance. There was just a lot of things that you didn`t see, her family time. I have four older boys. They don`t smoke, either.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at "Toddlers and Tiaras."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, contestant number one, Miss Destiny!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sandy comes out and throws down a cigarette, so Destiny`s going to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stomp on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel like that, you know, that`s a part of acting and it`s part of the routine, so we`ve added it in there. And I believe that she will do just fine with it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are real cigarettes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, they`re not real. They`re just fake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s nowhere a real cigarette. I mean, I would definitely not give my child a real cigarette.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) these are real.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t have a real one.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s going to do acting and things like that, then she`s going to have to act out the part, so...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got to get my cigarette.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You ready to rock? Ready to rock-and-roll? Huh?
You better come out with your hand on your hip and your cigarette in your mouth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think I will get criticized for the cigarette. You know, Sandy was a good girl, and she didn`t smoke, either, but she used it for image. So I believe everything will go well.
Are you ready? Don`t forget to smoke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right (INAUDIBLE) please welcome to the stage contestant number 27, a big round of applause for Destiny!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Destiny comes out with a cigarette in her mouth. Destiny has a cigarette! What is she thinking?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me exclusively is Destiny`s mom, Lisa Christian. I don`t understand. I hear your little girl refer to "my cigarette." Even one of the judges is shocked. He`s not so wrapped up in the "Toddler and Tiara" phenomena that he doesn`t realize this is crazy. How does smoking or pretend-smoking give your 4-year-old girl a competitive edge, as you said?
CHRISTIAN: We were just thinking over the top. It was just a prop, nothing more, nothing less.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t forget to smoke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, (INAUDIBLE) please welcome to the stage contestant number 27, a big round of applause for Destiny!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Destiny comes out with a cigarette in her mouth. Destiny has a cigarette! What is she thinking?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. And joining me live tonight exclusively is Lisa Christian. This is Destiny that you`re seeing right there, a 4-year-old, apparently smoking a cigarette.
And it seems -- very quickly, Caryn Stark, psychologist -- at least one person in the room wasn`t so wrapped up in the "Toddlers and Tiaras" phenomena that he didn`t realize a 4-year-old girl smoking is a no-no. Caryn Stark, one of the -- one of the judges -- it`s, like, when everybody`s doing something wrong and one person says, Hey, wait, wait, wait. We see one person speaking out, Caryn.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: And that`s a very good thing that he spoke out. I am so glad that he did. And I`m sorry, Lisa Christian, but really, there is a problem here. Part of smoking is image and part of why kids do it is because they want to look cool. And you`re teaching a young girl to look cool and go through the motions of smoking.
GRACE: Mike Walker, this is the tip of the iceberg, having a 4-year- old girl apparently smoke on the stage. There are fake breasts, fake butt enhancers. You`ve got one girl pretending to be a hooker. Another episode -- I want to see Honey Boo-Boo up on that bar where she`s dancing and people -- there`s the "Pretty Woman" hooker look-alike. People are stuffing money down in her pants. She was just in a wrestling ring.
Mike, what is next?
WALKER: It`s astounding. And the parents should remember that this show is a red-hot show. It`s already had, you know, one spin-off show. "Toddlers and Tiaras" spun off "The Honey Boo-Boo show" -- huge ratings. Kids are watching this stuff. And that`s the whole thing, as the lady said. It`s image.
That`s why they cut out smoking in movies because, like, when I was a young guy growing up, everybody smoked in movies. It was cool. It was the cool thing to do. That`s why I started smoking at a very young age. I mean, I quit, you know, 25 years ago. But it`s very, very, very powerful for young people to see this.
And again to the mother -- you know, you`re saying it`s part of the drama. But you know, what are you going to do, have your child play Lady Godiva and come out naked on a pony? I mean, you know, it`s not inseparable from the role. You could have had Sandy come out without the cigarette in her little leather outfit and cocking her fists, and you know, striking poses. It would have been the same thing. You didn`t need the cigarette.
GRACE: Let`s hear a response. With me is Destiny`s mother, Lisa Christian.
CHRISTIAN: Yes?
GRACE: I believe you just heard Mike Walker`s question to you.
CHRISTIAN: Yes, I did hear that. She could have very well came out like that. But like, again, we were just using it for a prop. It was a rolled-up piece of paper. And we really didn`t see the harm in it.
We grew up in a time where candy cigarettes was a big deal to us. And like I said, none of the family smokes. We didn`t see any harm in it. And we have taught her that it is bad for her, and she does know the difference.
GRACE: Well, Ms. Christian, for to you say, We`ve taught her it`s bad, but yet your very words -- let`s see the video -- are "Don`t forget to smoke"!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. Is the "Toddlers and Tiaras" gravy train set to hit the skids after this little girl goes on stage apparently with a cigarette in her mouth? She`s 4 years old. With me, her mother, Lisa Christian.
Out to the lines. Kelly, Ohio. Hi, Kelly. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. I watch it every day.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This goes out to the mother. What is she thinking about doing this to her 4-year-old daughter? And why doesn`t she see any harm in this? I have a 5-year-old little boy. I would never think about doing this.
And I think they should take all these shows of the air. I have not watched any of these since JonBenet Ramsey was killed. I think all these mothers are sick and all these shows need to come off the air.
GRACE: Response, Ms. Christian?
CHRISTIAN: Again, each to their own. What I do with my child may not be what she does with hers. And like I said, I grew up when candy cigarettes was a big thing for us, and we don`t smoke. And you know, my parents taught us right from wrong, and I will teach my daughter right from wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right (INAUDIBLE) please welcome to the stage contestant number 27, a big round of applause for Destiny!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t forget to smoke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They dressed Paisley up like Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman," as a prostitute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls. Tonight, is the "Toddlers and Tiaras" gravy train set to hit the skids after yet another stunning controversy, when a 4-year-old little girl takes to the stage with teased-up hair, a puffy black leather jacket and apparently a cigarette in her mouth?
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN: Ladies and gentlemen, contestant number one, Miss Destiny!
Sandy comes out and throws down a cigarette, so Destiny`s going to do that.
Stomp on it.
We`ll feel like that, you know, that`s a part of acting and it`s part of the routine, so we`ve added it in there, and I believe that she will do just fine with it.
DESTINY CHRISTIAN, 4-YEAR-OLD BEAUTY CONTESTANT: But these are real cigarettes.
CHRISTIAN: No, they`re not real. They`re just fake. There`s nowhere a real cigarette. I mean I would definitely not give my child a real cigarette.
D. CHRISTIAN: I need the real.
CHRISTIAN: You can`t have a real one.
If she`s going to do acting and things like that, then she`s going to have to act out the part, so --
D. CHRISTIAN: Stomp on my cigarette. I`ve got to get my cigarette.
CHRISTIAN: Are you ready to rock? Ready to rock `n` roll? You better come out with your hand on your hip and cigarette in your mouth.
I don`t think I will get criticized for the cigarette. You know, Sandy was a good girl and she didn`t smoke either, but she used it for image. So I believe everything will go well.
Are you ready? Don`t forget to smoke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Please welcome to the stage, contestant number 27. A big round of applause for Destiny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Destiny comes out with a cigarette in her mouth. Destiny has a cigarette. What is she thinking?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: You know what? I just had a world-renowned lung cancer specialist on, describing the horror of lung cancer.
To Lisa Christian, Destiny`s mother, joining us tonight exclusively.
Miss Christian, I don`t know if you have been fortunate enough to escape knowing anyone with cancer, anyone who died of lung cancer. I am not so lucky. Did it concern you at all? I mean, people questioned you before you did this, before she went on the stage with apparently a cigarette in her mouth. Did it concern you at all the message it would send?
And what people that are watching tonight, that are dying of lung cancer -- how this would affect them? So you could give your 4-year-old girl a, quote, "competitive edge" in a kiddy beauty contest?
CHRISTIAN: Well, like -- like I said, it was a prop. It`s fake. I`m so tired of everybody hollering it was a cigarette. It is just a piece of rolled up paper that she was using to pretend. And no, it -- we were just having fun with it. It was a `50s theme. You know, we were just doing the part of Sandy. I never dreamed it would go this far.
Once again, like I said, the editing has went pretty good, I guess, for them because she didn`t have that in her hand two or three seconds and it was just for pretend. It was nothing more than a prop, nothing more than you would see for Halloween costumes.
GRACE: You know what, Miss Christian? There have been a million times -- and my children are only 4 1/2 right now -- that I`ve said, why didn`t I think of this earlier? Why didn`t I do X? I should have done Y. And I torture myself whenever I make a mistake. And the twins pay for it. All right?
If you had to do this again, what would you do?
CHRISTIAN: You know, I`m not sure with all the controversy that`s going on. But, I mean, as far as her pretending, yes, I`d let her pretend again. Because to me, I think a child with imagination is going somewhere.
GRACE: Really? A child with the imagination that she is smoking a cigarette? How about a child imaging she`s got lung cancer?
CHRISTIAN: I didn`t say smoking a cigarette.
GRACE: You know I was hoping --
CHRISTIAN: I just said having an imagination.
GRACE: I was hoping that you would get it after hearing from a lung cancer specialist, after hearing from all of these people that are condemning what you did. You know, to an imagination -- what, do you want her to imagine, what, shooting up heroin?
CHRISTIAN: No, ma`am.
GRACE: Do you want her to imagine, what, robbing a bank?
CHRISTIAN: I don`t think that time --
GRACE: What do you want her to imagine? Well, this is not imaging like being a princess or a researcher or a school teacher. She`s imagining smoking. She refers to it as, "my cigarettes."
Unleash the lawyers. Burke Strunsky, Kirby Clements, Greg McKeithen.
Kirby Clements, we all know what real child abuse is, what real child molestation or crimes on children. We know what that is because we`ve prosecuted it. I`ve seen children`s arms, their bodies burned with cigarette burns where they`ve been starved, where they`ve been beaten, where they have been molested.
That is what we think of as child abuse. But I want you to weigh in on this. You`re not just a defense lawyer. You`re a father.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what, Nancy? As a father, I can say this. I wouldn`t have my child in any pageant. But I`ve heard what Miss Christian has to say. And I`ve got to tell you -- and this is going to shock you -- I agree with her. It was a fake cigarette. When we were kids, we played cops and robbers. So some kids played, guess what, robber.
Would I have my child doing this? No. What is -- it is really much ado about nothing.
GRACE: So in other words, you wouldn`t do it? You wouldn`t do it, but if she wants to do it, fine?
CLEMENTS: Absolutely.
GRACE: You know what? Where do you finally draw the line? Greg McKeithen, weigh in.
GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK. Nancy, keep in mind, again, this is merely for a show. And based on these narrow set of facts and circumstances, we cannot necessarily conclude that the mother is advocating in this particular set of facts and circumstances smoking for a 4-year-old child.
It was for a particular reason, for a particular purpose at a particular place and time. And parents have a responsibility to oversee their child.
GRACE: You know what, you know what, you`re telling me it was for a particular place and time. It was to win a beauty contest. Beauty contest. To give her child a competitive edge. Does that make it OK?
All right. Let`s hear from you, Burke Strunsky.
BURKE STRUNSKY, SENIOR DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "THE HUMANITY OF JUSTICE": The issue is that they are basically turning their child into pedophile bait. In other words, they are putting their child out there. And as you know, Nancy, as someone who has prosecuted child abuse cases, is when you put your child out there and sexualize that child, that child is going to be looked at by sexual predators as a sexual being.
And this legitimizes those sexual predators who are out there who are saying, look, it`s OK that I feel this sexual attraction to -- to a child. And that is what triggers further child abuse, child molestation.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining me out of Philly. You know, Dr. Manion, my husband has an addiction to Diet Coke. Do you know I make him put his drink, his Diet Coke in an opaque glass so the children won`t want to drink it? Because I don`t want to hurt their stomach. OK, call me crazy. But what you allow into your life, be it cigarettes or just a soft drink, anything that, becomes who you are.
Why would you introduce cigarettes in your child`s life and how the smoking, even second-hand smoking, affects children?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: You`re absolutely right. Smoking is something, at least, our society has been very successful with. Back in the `60s and `70s, even half the doctors were smoking. Nurses were smoking at the station -- at their stations. But at least that now the medical community has realized how bad smoking is, not only for cancer, but also for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and many, many autopsies that I do are on people that have terrible hardening of the arteries, terrible atherosclerosis from smoking.
And absolutely. Kids look at their parents as role model. If parents smoke, they want to smoke. Kids look at other kids as role models.
GRACE: Well, you know, when you say they look at their parents and it makes them want to smoke, what about a mom stuffing a fake cigarette in a little 4-year-old`s mouth and saying, don`t forget to smoke?
This is the clip that has stirred the controversy, amidst claims of child abuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN: I don`t think I will get criticized for those cigarettes. You know, Sandy was a good girl. And she didn`t smoke either but she used it for image so, I believe, everything will go well.
Are you ready? Don`t forget to smoke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Please welcome to the stage, contestant number 27. A big round of applause for Destiny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Back in 90 seconds. But I want to stop and remember, Army 1st Lt. Jared Southworth, 26, Oakland, Illinois. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, police officer, loved baseball, kayaking. Parents Bob and Kim. Brother Michael, sister, Nikki. Four children.
Jared Southworth, American hero.
And a special hello to junior crime fighters, Matthew, Justin, Wesley and Tray.
Happy birthday to firefighter friend, Emil, serving his community 40 years.
And to gold medal Special Olympian Brock.
Back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Please welcome to the stage, contestant number 27. A big round of applause for Destiny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Destiny comes out with a cigarette in her mouth. Destiny has a cigarette. What is she thinking?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are back and taking your calls amidst the storm of controversy. With us tonight, the mom of this little girl apparently smoking to give her a, quote, "competitive edge" in a "Toddlers & Tiara" beauty contest.
With me mom Lisa Christian. We are taking your calls. First out to Angela Smith. Angela is the national director of Beautiful Me Productions, who founded the pageant.
Angela, joining me out of Kentucky, I`d like to hear your thoughts on having a 4-year-old to pretend smoke.
ANGELA SMITH, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, BEAUTIFUL ME PRODUCTIONS, FOUNDED PAGEANT: Well, again, it was, just like as she said, a prop. And the show was actually based on "Rockin` Around the Clock." It was a `50s theme. There were a lot of different themes throughout the pageant. Had a lot of poodle skirts and I guess, you know, Destiny`s mom just thought that, what, you know, maybe that would stand her out with the competition.
I really don`t think she meant anything by it. Especially now with all the controversy, I bet she`s probably rethinking everything.
GRACE: Well, according to her, Angela, she would do the same thing again. That`s what she just told me. And I know, Angela, that -- with me, Angela Smith, director of Beautiful Me Productions, who founded the pageant.
I know you say that she, quote, the mom, "didn`t mean anything by it." But I`m asking your opinion of sending a 4-year-old girl out on the stage apparently with a cigarette jammed in her mouth given the reprimand, "Don`t forget to smoke."
SMITH: No, I mean, if you`re asking my opinion about smoking, I`m definitely against it. I had two grandparents that died of cancer. But again Lisa is a wonderful mother. She has other kids. As she stated they do not smoke. And I`m sure like you, Nancy -- I mean I played with cigarettes, candy cigarettes when I was younger, and I`ve never smoked a cigarette a day in my life.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, I`m glad to hear that. My father was a smoker. He started smoking at age 11. But when we were born, he quit cold turkey. One day. He said, I`m quitting and that was it. So we wouldn`t be around smoke. And I`m glad that all of you have had such great luck with not smoking and no cancer in your immediate family. You had grandparents with cancer.
I wonder what message this sends to patients dying of cancer right now, what message it sends to moms that are in the hospital right now with their children, suffering from cancer that are fighting to save their life, fighting for one more day, one more month, one more year for their child to live.
What message does this send?
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is insanity. This is absolute insanity. Because the question of whether the illusion that they think they`re creating is, in fact, mimicking reality or creating reality. It presents an iconic view that`s going to be idolized by some, and for this mother to put her daughter in that position is absolute insanity and parental irresponsibility. Kids who smoke, many other diseases prematurely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Another stunning stunt on the reality show "Toddlers & Tiaras" threatening to bring down the empire.
Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. This is one of many stunts or controversies surrounding the toddler show.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. This is just -- this is the latest one. In fact, there was a little girl who dressed up like the prostitute that Julia Roberts played in "Pretty Woman" and there was a girl that dressed up like Dolly Parton.
Now the thing is, it`s becoming a court issue because dads are now taking mothers to court to get custody of their children because of these pageants. There`s a little girl Maddy Verst, her dad is fighting for custody and a judge is about to rule any day now on whether or not the mom can have her. And in fact, the child has been banned from pageants by the court. She can no longer participate in pageants.
So this is having actually legal repercussions now putting your children on these shows.
GRACE: Let`s go to Blake Woodruff, the talent manager for Paisley Dickey. She`s the child star who dressed as a hooker.
Blake, I`d love to hear your input. Go ahead.
BLAKE WOODRUFF, TALENT MANAGER FOR PAISLEY DICKEY, CHILD DRESSED AS PRETTY WOMAN: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m great.
WOODRUFF: First of all, I just want to say, sorry to hear about your mother, my grandmother was affected by cancer, too, and so I know where you`re coming from. But you know, I think this is absolutely getting so ridiculous. Everyone with these controversies. So what`s wrong with the mother dressing their kids up? You know, it`s the same as their kids being in arts programs or plays or, you know, I like to say that it`s like my dad when he wanted me to be a wrestler in high school. You know, he put me out on a wrestling mat in a singlet. You know, I may not wanted to do that but I still did it.
You know, I feel like all of this controversy comes from the fact --
GRACE: There`s a big difference in wrestling and dressing up like a hooker and being told to smoke when you`re 4. I don`t get your reasoning.
WOODRUFF: OK. No, there`s not a difference at all. It`s the same.
GRACE: Yes, there is.
WOODRUFF: What -- please don`t -- it`s dressing up in a costume.
GRACE: Putting a cigarette --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Having your child pretend to be a hooker with a -- and another putting a -- apparently a cigarette in her mouth goes beyond having you be on the wrestling team. Have you lost your mind?
WOODRUFF: No, not at all. You never had a candy cigarette when you were a kid?
GRACE: No, I didn`t. No, I didn`t.
WOODRUFF: OK. Most every kid I`ve ever seen and adults loved them.
GRACE: Really?
WOODRUFF: So what`s wrong with doing it? They were paying -- they were paying tribute, this mother, Miss Christian, was paying to tribute to Sandy from "Grease," the same way my client, Wendy Dickey --
GRACE: Well --
WOODRUFF: -- and Paisley, were paying tribute to "Pretty Woman." You know what you don`t see on the camera --
GRACE: Well, you know, there are scenes of "Pretty Woman" with her in a beautiful evening gown.
Ellie Jostad, why does it have to be the one scene of her smoking? Why can`t it be of her dancing or doing some other Grease-type activity?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, right, Nancy, I mean that`s actually the point the mother was making. She said that, you know, she did other things in the pageant, she didn`t just do this Sandy character. But people online are outraged about this. As soon as it aired, everyone took to Twitter to complain about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A 4-year-old takes to the stage with her mother`s urging with a cigarette, apparently jammed in her mouth.
Out to the lines, Jill, California. Hi, Jill, what`s your question?
JILL, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I`m disgusted by this, actually, but I want to address this to Lisa.
Lisa, you said Sandy was a good girl, but Sandy wasn`t 4, she was an adult actress. And I just wanted to know at what point are you going to have a limit and think this may negatively affect how the judges view your child? It`s disgusting.
GRACE: Lisa?
CHRISTIAN: Well, like I said, to each their own. My daughter is not your typical 4-year-old. She does know the difference between right and wrong. And I never dreamed the judges would`ve thought anything but then it was just, you know, a prop. That was as simple as it is.
GRACE: Well, actually, for you to keep saying, Miss Christian, this to each your own. In our country, it`s not accurate. Because at a certain point, Department of Family and Children Services steps in. You -- the treatment of your child is not unfettered. There are rules to protect those that are weaker than you. In our society to protect those less cunning, less strong, including children.
So your rights to your child are not without limits. There are limits. There is a point where the law will intercede.
Marie in South Carolina, what`s your question?
MARIE, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, I`d like to know -- Nancy, first of all, I love your show. I watch it all the time. I`d like to know why they just can`t have a regular beauty contest instead of dressing them up like teenagers and this and that. They`re 4 and 5 years old.
GRACE: Like hookers? Yes, what about that? To Angela Smith, national director of the Beautiful Me Productions, founded the pageant. Why can`t they just have a beauty contest or a talent contest? Why do you have to dress them up like hookers and put cigarettes in their mouth?
SMITH: Well, it is a beauty pageant. But again, for the show, they only show -- I mean, do you know with reality TV, they`re going to show what`s going to get ratings. They don`t show the little girls that we had, a "Pretty in Pink" category where the little girls just wearing an outfit from K-Mart and Wal-Mart, and you know, it is a beauty competition, and there are themes to every "Toddlers & Tiaras" show.
GRACE: Now why am I seeing a little girl at this moment stretching -- attaching fake breasts to her shirt? All right. OK.
SMITH: I can understand --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I look forward to hearing an explanation to that.
Everyone, Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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