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Nancy Grace
Woman Cuts Baby From Pregnant Mother, Both Die; Kate Middleton Nude Photos
Aired September 17, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. After befriending a nine- month pregnant Milwaukee mom, she offers Mommy a ride home, not to be friendly but to mount a deadly attack. Why?
Bombshell tonight. The 34-year-old mommy wannabe cuts the unborn baby out of the womb using an X-Acto knife and a procedure she learns off the Discovery Channel, slitting Mommy`s stomach down the middle and stealing the baby boy in front of Mommy`s own eyes. And then wannabe goes home to pose to friends and family as a radiant new mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are pictures of Maritza Ramirez, pregnant and happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eagerly awaits the birth of her fourth baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ramirez and her husband, Christian Mercado, planned to name the baby Omar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But cops say someone else was also interested in her pregnancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten days before her due date, the unthinkable happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The horrifying act...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know it`s true, but we can`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Documents reveal that Annette Morales-Rodriguez lured the young mother to her home, attacked her with a baseball bat, used an X-Acto knife to cut the unborn baby from her victim`s womb.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect, according to investigators, fooled everyone into believing she was pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s pregnant. I mean, there`s proof.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But police insist the suspect was not. Ramirez`s family hopes justice is served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, UK royals set to file criminal charges as topless photos emerge -- no, not photos of Prince Harry. Criminal charges over Princess Kate Middleton`s alleged topless photos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Photos of what appears to be Kate Middleton topless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now viral pictures of Prince William`s wife, Kate, sunbathing topless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taken with a long-lens camera at a private home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The long lens (INAUDIBLE) frankly are nothing more than photographer thugs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kate especially is absolutely livid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The palace says, quote, "grotesque invasion of privacy," reminiscent of the worst excesses of the press and paparazzi during the life of Diana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, let`s face it. They should really just keep their clothes on unless they`re behind a very high wall or indoors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What legal recourse could the royal family have here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
After befriending a nine-month pregnant Milwaukee mom, she offers Mommy a ride home, not to be friendly, but so she could mount a deadly attack. The 34-year-old mommy wannabe, using an X-Acto knife and a procedure she learns off the Discovery Channel, slits Mommy`s tummy open and steals her baby boy, her unborn baby boy out of Mommy`s tummy in front of Mommy`s own eyes as Mommy lies dying. She sees her baby boy ripped from her womb as she bleeds to death.
We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out to anchor and reporter joining me out of Milwaukee, at WTMJ, Dan O`Donnell. Dan O`Donnell, so she befriends the pregnant woman and offers her a ride. How did that whole thing go down?
DAN O`DONNELL, 620 WTMJ (via telephone): Well, the suspect, Annette Morales-Rodriguez, had been driving around for a couple of days, looking for a pregnant woman. She had allegedly been planning this assault for two weeks.
She had told her boyfriend that she was pregnant. Her boyfriend had wanted a son. But it was starting to get to the time where she was to give birth. She was never pregnant, and she started to get desperate. She knew she needed a baby...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wait. Wait, wait...
O`DONNELL: ... so she was driving around...
GRACE: Dan, Dan, Dan! Dan O`Donnell. So wait a minute. You`re saying she planned this for two weeks. But had she -- and I`m referring to Annette, Annette Morales, charged in this offense -- didn`t she pretend for a long time that she was pregnant because her boyfriend wanted a baby boy?
O`DONNELL: She had been pretending for months. In fact, her boyfriend, her friends, even her family all thought that she was pregnant.
GRACE: Well, did the boyfriend never see her naked and figure out that she didn`t really have a baby in there?
O`DONNELL: She apparently was going to great lengths to conceal this fake pregnancy, even going so far as to not allow him to see her naked. She was telling everybody that she was pregnant, and she was slightly larger. So she was saying, look, she wasn`t gaining all that much weight because of that. But no, the boyfriend had no idea. When he was questioned, he said he thought she was pregnant.
GRACE: So what was she telling the boyfriend that she wouldn`t let him see her naked because what, she was embarrassed she gained weight or she didn`t like the way she looked pregnant, some crazy story like that?
O`DONNELL: That seems to be it. And as we`ve seen as this case has progressed, she was full of crazy stories, Nancy.
GRACE: Like what? What do you mean she`s full of -- whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! I`m getting ahead of myself. With me, Dan O`Donnell, joining me from Milwaukee.
Everybody, tonight, a stunning story. This woman planned -- pretends she`s pregnant for months and months and months, even faking off her live- in boyfriend, her family, her friends. But then, hey, nine months pass, she needs a baby. So she goes trolling, driving around, looking, stalking, preying on pregnant women.
She finds one. She befriends a mom, a young mom, 23-year-old Maritza. She offers her a ride. And then the worst nightmares come true, slitting open Mommy`s tummy and taking the unborn baby boy out of her stomach as she lies there bleeding to death.
So she fakes a pregnancy, Dan O`Donnell. And how does she do that?
O`DONNELL: Well, she basically was just telling people that she was pregnant. There was no physical evidence, obviously, that she was ever pregnant. She just lied for months at a time, telling people, Oh, no, I`m pregnant. The baby`s doing great. I can feel it kicking. And apparently, nobody asked any follow-up questions...
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa!
O`DONNELL: Hey, can I feel the baby kick...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! Hold on, Dan! I hate to interrupt you again -- but guys, you`re seeing a picture, a photo of the suspect, the not pregnant -- back it up, Liz. I want to see that tummy! There she is, the one by the Christmas tree, where she`s posing by the Christmas tree with a fake stomach, a pregnancy -- can I see the Christmas tree? I see the car. There -- oh, OK.
So Liz, let me get this straight. This is the defendant, right? Holy moly! So she`s posing -- she`s not pregnant, people. This is part of her ruse. Then she finds a pregnant woman and slits her open with an X-Acto knife while she`s lying there alive, takes the baby out.
OK, whoa! Alexis Weed, what`s this business about she uses an X-Acto knife and a procedure she learns on the Discovery Channel? I`m sure the Discovery Channel is proud tonight. Go ahead. What`s this all about?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Police did a videotaped interview with this woman, and she allegedly told them that she found this technique on the Discovery Channel, that she had watched a C- section being performed on Discovery, and she thought that she could do it herself with, get this, an X-Acto knife. That`s how she went about cutting open this poor pregnant mother.
GRACE: OK. All right. Back to you, Dan O`donnell. Lay it out for me. So she offers Maritza, a 23-year-old expectant mom, a ride, seemingly to be friendly. And then what happens?
O`DONNELL: Well, Maritza gets into the car. She was at a service, a place that provides services for pregnant women. And she was walking. She actually waits, Annette does, for her appointment, takes her to Walgreen`s to pick up some nausea medication.
And then Annette uses the excuse, Well, I need to go back to my house because I want to change my shoes. That`s how she`s able to lure Maritza into her home.
GRACE: OK, tell me that one more time. What now? Tell me that one more time.
O`DONNELL: She told her that she wanted to change shoes because her feet hurt.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Lynn in Massachusetts. Hi, Lynn. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Yes, I was just wondering, how did she finally get caught?
GRACE: Good question. How to you, Dave Mack, morning talk show host joining from WAAX. Dave, take me through the story.
DAVE MACK, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX: Well, once they`re in the apartment -- or the house, rather -- Nancy, that`s when the attack takes place. And that`s what, you know, of course leads to her being caught.
She removes the baby from the mother. She calls 911, says, I just gave birth at home, and my baby`s not breathing. They transport them to the hospital, the baby and the mother-to-be -- or the one claiming to be the mother.
It`s once they get to the hospital, that`s when the whole story unravels because, obviously, she hasn`t just given birth. The baby is dead. She tells police that she`s bleeding and she`s gone to the restroom. And they start to investigate.
She didn`t want anybody to look at her. That`s when they discovered that she hadn`t been pregnant and didn`t give birth.
GRACE: I`m reading directly from police documents, Dave Mack. Listen to this, Lynn in Massachusetts. OK, she gets the detectives there. She tells the detectives -- this is at St. Francis Hospital -- that she feels abdominal pain taking a shower at her residence, that she`s bleeding from her vaginal area, observes top of baby`s head, goes in living room, gives birth. Baby not breathing. She calls 911.
She says to them she does not know she`s pregnant. Autopsy reveals baby was not product of a natural birth -- not product of a natural birth.
Out to Dr. Jennifer Shu, physician and editor of "Baby and Child Health." She`s the expert. Dr. Shu, how can you look at a baby and determine it is not a product of a vaginal birth?
DR. JENNIFER SHU, PHYSICIAN: Well, usually, when you go through the vaginal canal, there`s a lot of molding to the head and there`s a lot of swelling. With a C-section, when you pull the baby out of the uterus, there`s less trauma to that head. So that is one way to tell.
GRACE: It also says, Dr. Shu, in this police document that I`m reading -- it says there were parts of the ovaries attached to the uterus and placenta. What does that mean?
SHU: It sounds like the way that this botched surgery was done, a lot of stuff was cut out, not like a surgeon would do. So this is a very barbaric home C-section that this woman did, and she just basically cut a lot of things that were not supposed to be cut.
GRACE: OK, also, it turns out that after she is discovered, she tries to plead insanity. But it doesn`t work. Everybody can see straight through her ruse.
Out to the lines. Elena in Florida. Is it Elena in Florida?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s Elena, Nancy. First I want to thank you for making such a difference. I try to never miss your show when I`m home.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you so much. I`m just sick about this. I just had two quick questions. First of all, I want to know if this -- I don`t know what to call her -- monster has a criminal background, and also if she has any kids that anyone knows of.
GRACE: OK, you`re never going to believe this, Elena. She does have other children. It`s my understanding -- Alexis Weed, does she have other children, and does she have a criminal history?
WEED: We believe so. We don`t believe that she has a criminal history, but we`ve reached out to her attorney, to prosecutors, trying to find answers to these questions and we`ll bring them back to you just as soon as they`re able to be found.
GRACE: Well, Alexis, this is another thing I don`t understand. How did they find the real mom? And where in the home did she perform this barbaric C-section on the pregnant mom?
WEED: This was down the hallway from the bathroom, where she dragged her out after beating her in the head with a baseball bat multiple times, Nancy. She then bound the mother, now dead, bound her legs, bound her hands with duct tape, put duct tape over her mouth, over her nose, and dragged her down, stashed her in the basement, Nancy, where she hid her downstairs until investigators found the mother only because she had been reported missing by her husband. It was later -- more than 24 hours later that this mother was found down in that basement dead.
GRACE: Oh, my stars! Hey, I was completely bass-ackwards. The victim, the expectant mom, nine months pregnant, had two other children. This woman, the defendant, Annette Morales -- she could not have children. She did not have any children. Her boyfriend wanted a baby boy.
So take a look at this picture she faked in front of her Christmas tree. Here she is posing in front of her car. There`s her not pregnant belly. For months, she pretends she`s pregnant. And then when it`s time to give birth, she goes baby shopping. And how do you get that baby? Murder!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. She faked a pregnancy to her live-in boyfriend. All the while, she knew she herself could not get pregnant. So when nine months are up, what are you going to do? Well, this is what she did.
Tell me the story from the beginning, Alexis.
WEED: OK, Nancy. So this woman -- this Rodriguez, the defendant, she called 911...
GRACE: And this is a picture of her right there by the Christmas tree. There`s baby`s first stocking on the Christmas tree. FYI, she`s not pregnant. That`s a fake tummy.
Go ahead, Alexis.
WEED: Right. So she calls 911 and says, I`ve just given birth, but my baby is not breathing. So police respond. They come over. They feel bad for this mother. They bring her to the emergency room.
But when they start interviewing her and asking her questions, and when the autopsy is performed on this dead child -- paramedics were not able to revive the child when they arrived at the home. So they start asking her questions, and they find through this autopsy that the baby was not born of natural childbirth. And so that`s where this case starts to unravel for this defendant.
GRACE: And here`s how it all goes down. Isn`t this true, Dan O`Donnell, joining me from WTMJ there in Milwaukee -- I`m reading directly from police documents. She has been stalking this pregnant mom. She sees the pregnant mom walking just a few blocks to the Walgreen`s on Chase Avenue to purchase nausea medicine. That`s where the mommy was going.
She goes up to her, offers her a ride, and then insists that they`ve got to stop at her house so she can change shoes. That`s how she tricks the nine-months pregnant victim, Maritza, into her home. And it is in that home that she uses an X-Acto knife in a procedure she learns off watching the Discovery Channel to perform a barbaric C-section as Mommy watches her unborn baby boy removed from her own stomach, as she lies dying in the floor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Kelly Saindon, Chicago, Holly Hughes, Atlanta, Eric Schwartzreich, Miami.
All right, Eric, weigh in.
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Everyone deserves a defense. While this is horrific, Nancy, right now, she`s withdrawn her not guilty plea. She`s going to go into that court. She`s withdrawn her not guilty by reason of insanity plea. She`s going to go into that courtroom. She`s going to fight the charges. She`s going to make the government prove these accusations because...
GRACE: OK, Eric, Eric...
SCHWARTZREICH: ... there is a defense for everyone, Nancy.
GRACE: ... Eric, Eric! Please. Either everybody on this panel is a lawyer and everybody watching are court watchers -- we all know the state bears the burden of proof. That`s really not what I asked you. I wanted you to weigh in as to a defense. Now, we already know that she started off with insanity. But then after she was examined by psychiatrists and psychologists, they went, yes, she`s sane. Didn`t work.
So now what she`s going to do, Holly?
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sane doesn`t necessarily mean she`s not suffering from some type of mental illness. It just means the court is saying it doesn`t rise to the level of an insanity defense.
What we have here, Nancy -- there`s a lot of problems with this case. The lead detective in this case has been accused of committing three separate and distinct crimes himself.
GRACE: OK, stop. Holly Hughes, I don`t know if you have investigated this case. But as I was preparing for tonight, I looked through photos of the victim, and one of those photos is the mother lying in the coffin and she`s holding her baby boy.
HUGHES: Nancy, that`s terrible.
GRACE: So don`t start with...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, no, no, no, no!
HUGHES: That`s not going to be admitted in trial.
GRACE: Don`t start -- cut her mike! Cut her mike. That -- don`t start up with me about, Oh, yes, well, you know what? Insanity didn`t work, so let`s fall back on mental defect.
What about it, Kelly? Help me out. Why do I have to see this woman...
KELLY SAINDON, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Oh, my God.
GRACE: Why do I have to see the mommy -- not this big faker at the Christmas tree with what does she have, a towel stuffed down her shirt? Why do I have to see a mother of two lying dead in a coffin holding her baby boy, both of them embalmed in a coffin? Why? Why does that have to be?
SAINDON: Because the defendant is a vicious killer. She planned this attack. She`s a faker. She deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. She`s not going to get away with this. She`s not insane. She`s a calculated, cold-blooded killer. So for their defense positions, it`s ridiculous!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are pictures of Maritza Ramirez, pregnant and happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eagerly awaits the birth of her fourth baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ramirez and her husband, Christian Mercado, planned to name the baby Omar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But cops say someone else was also interested in her pregnancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten days before her due date, the unthinkable happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The horrifying act...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know it`s true, but we can`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Documents reveal that Annette Morales-Rodriguez lured the young mother to her home, attacked her with a baseball bat, used an X-Acto knife to cut the unborn baby from her victim`s womb.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect, according to investigators, fooled everyone into believing she was pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s pregnant. I mean, there`s proof.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But police insist the suspect was not. Ramirez`s family hopes justice is served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s talk about the scene that the police found when they got to the defendant`s home. Charged is Annette Morales, a 34-year-old woman who could not have children. She faked a pregnancy for months on end to her boyfriend who wanted a baby boy. But then nine months passed and what was she going to do? She had to go baby shopping. And what did she do to get that baby? Cold-blooded murder, says cops.
They find the body of 23-year-old Maritza Ramirez, sliced open in the defendant`s home. So she, the defendant, Annette Morales, could take the unborn baby boy out of her stomach, slicing her open with an X-Acto knife, using a technique she saw on the Discovery Channel, and leaving the mom for dead.
Mommy, the real mommy, Maritza Ramirez, leaves behind another family. Her three other children, wanting their mother. As of this broadcast, they are asking, where is mommy, according to our sources.
We`re taking your calls. Out to Christine, Ohio. Hi, what`s your question?
CHRISTY, CALLER FROM IOWA: Hey, Nancy. It`s Christy in Iowa. But my question is --
GRACE: Hi, Christy.
CHRISTY: First and foremost, it`s an honor and a privilege. And I watched you the whole entire trial of Casey Anthony and I do not know why that woman is not in jail. But I tell you one thing, I hope there is justice for this other family that, you know, lost two, not one, but two loved ones. And why is there not the death penalty across the board in these United States of America, Nancy?
GRACE: You know, Christy, are you a mom?
CHRISTY: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: I know, I know you remember, I don`t know how long ago it was, but I remember my pregnancy when I was carrying the twins. And there were days that it took all I could do to get up and go to work. I worked up until the Wednesday before they were born on Sunday. I worked Wednesday night. And I remember I could hardly walk. I was in a wheelchair. I didn`t know I had clots, blood clots to my lungs and that I was going into congestive heart failure.
I just knew how bad I felt. And I`m thinking, this young mom, she`s already got -- Ellie, how many children does she have? Three children, three young children at home. This was going to be her fourth child, trying to walk to the Walgreens, trying to get out and get exercise. She was having a hard time walking, but she was going to walk the few blocks to the pharmacy for anti-nausea medication. And that is when she meets Annette Morales.
Back to you, Dan O`Donnell, WTMJ, what do we know about Annette Morales, the 34-year-old that could not give birth?
DAN O`DONNELL, ANCHOR/REPORTER, 620 WTMJ: Well, we do know that she -- it`s unclear whether she has any other children. But she was very upset and driven to do this by the fact that she couldn`t get pregnant and give her boyfriend a son that he had desperately wanted. She faked her pregnancy for months. And then when it was finally time to deliver a baby, she apparently got quite desperate.
GRACE: You know, quite desperate is one way to put it.
Dave Mack, I call it motive for murder. You know what? The more I read and I`m intentionally not reading the entire police document out loud because it`s so upsetting. She whacked the real mom, the pregnant mom, nine months, with a baseball bat. And the mom starts trying to run. I cannot even imagine trying to run at nine months. I couldn`t even walk. I was in a wheelchair.
Then she beat her again with the baseball bat. Gets her on the ground, straddles her, gets duct tape across her nose and mouth and begins suffocating her with the defendant`s right hand. Puts a plastic bag over her because she says blood was coming out of mommy`s mouth and nose.
Unleash the lawyers, Kelly Saindon, Holly Hughes, Eric Schwartzreich. Then while she`s still lying to the police, she doesn`t realize exactly what`s happening. She`s just there at the hospital, she starts talking.
And what do we learn, what do we learn, Dan O`Donnell, first?
O`DONNELL: What we learned is that this was a premeditated crime, that she had been planning this for several weeks and that she acted in a murderous but controlled rage and that she had actually had some reservations when Maritza was in the bathroom, Annette Morales-Rodriguez, apparently she told police that she had some reservations about what she was about to do. But by the time that she came out of the bathroom, she attacked her with that bat.
GRACE: And how is it, Alexis, that she ends up confessing, in a way?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, at first, Nancy, she makes what police are calling incriminating statements. They take her back to the hospital for another exam and to see if perhaps this could be her baby and to prove, is she lying? And she goes into the bathroom while an investigator is kind of waiting outside. And she comes out bleeding. And the investigator goes back into the bathroom and finds that there`s blood all over the bathroom. Turns out, Nancy, that this woman actually just mutilated herself in order to go -- that`s the extent to which she went to try to prove that she was pregnant.
GRACE: Whoa, OK. Alexis. You know what, I appreciate you using euphemisms. What do you mean by she mutilated herself? What, she cut her own vagina, is that what you`re trying to get out?
WEED: That`s what I would say, yes, would be accurate, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Alexis, here`s the deal. We`re talking about -- put her up. We are talking about the murder of a pregnant mom, all right? So this really isn`t the time to mince words and be afraid of the word vagina. All right?
WEED: You`re right.
GRACE: You know, after you have a child, maybe you`ll get it.
Unleash the lawyers. Saindon, Hughes, Schwartzreich.
All right, Eric, you took me down the garden path last time talking about the presumption of innocence, a jury trial, blah, blah, blah. She cut her own vagina, Eric, so she would be bleeding, OK? Response?
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there it is. Vagina. I`m not afraid to say it. The bottom line is, you and I cannot sit here and be judge, jury and executioner. There`s a court of law --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m asking you what the defense is. I`m not asking you to start a sermon.
SCHWARTZREICH: There`s lots of defenses, Nancy.
GRACE: Good. Let`s hear it. Gets get down do it.
SCHWARTZREICH: Nancy, Nancy, lots of different defenses. First of all whether or not Miranda was read, and whether or not these statements are going to come in. If there was a custodial situation in the hospital is a different situation. Who knows if she actually went through it? If she planned it? Was it the boyfriend? Was it someone else? She can argue anything in court but the bottom line --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, Holly Hughes, at least, at least after several minutes, he has spouted out a possible defense. Maybe she`s going to blame the boyfriend. But after she`s given these statements, I don`t think that`s going to work.
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, and the problem with the statements, again, is they were taken by the lead investigator in this case who himself, let`s talk about credibility of witnesses, Nancy, because he`s going to have to take the stand and say, well, she told me all this. This is a detective who has been investigated for committing three separate crimes himself, one of them a sexual assault.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. So with that crime scene and those admissions, let me see. Who should the jury believe? The detective and all the people at the hospital or the woman who butchered a nine-months pregnant woman to steal her baby? That`s a toughie.
HUGHES: Or a supposed person who committed sexual assault.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Back in 90 seconds. But let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Jason Johnston, 24, Albion, New York. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation. Loved singing, dancing, writing poetry. Mother Jenny, sisters Carrie, Holly and Heather.
Jason Johnston, American hero.
And tonight, our prayers to the loved ones of Miss Frances Cobb, Florida, now in heaven.
Frances Cobb, good night, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cops say a 34-year-old Wisconsin woman wanted a son but had suffered multiple miscarriages. Instead of turning to the fertility clinic, she allegedly turns to murder. Investigators say she looked for a victim for weeks before settling upon a pregnant mother of three. Just days away from giving birth to her fourth child.
Cops say she found her victim through a social service organization, lured her to her home, bludgeoned her with a baseball bat and choked her to death. Then in a horrifying act, the desperate woman used an X-Acto knife to cut the unborn baby from her victim`s womb and was planning to pass the child off as her own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dan O`Donnell, joining me there in Milwaukee.
Dan, I was trying to discover earlier what they learned at the crime scene, what if anything did police find?
O`DONNELL: Well, they found Maritza`s body that had been dragged into the basement and hidden near a hot water heater. They had found that the suspect, Annette Morales-Rodriguez, had changed her clothes after she, in fact, called 911, and that she had -- in an attempt to fool police into thinking that she had given birth to a stillborn baby -- actually wiped some of her victim, Maritza`s blood, on her inner thighs to make it appear as though she had given birth to a stillborn baby.
GRACE: You know, on that, I`m going to have to go back to the lawyers.
Schwartzreich, Hughes, Saindon. Let me also get in Leslie Austin, psychotherapist joining me out of New York. You could just stick her down there with the fake pregnancy photo by the Christmas tree.
You say there`s no premeditation, defense lawyers. She hides the dead mother`s body. She changes her clothes. She calls 911 and lies and goes so far as to wipe the victim`s blood on her inner thighs to make it look as if she`s given birth. Holly Hughes?
HUGHES: Clearly there is something mentally wrong with this woman. She is so diluted --
GRACE: Really?
HUGHES: -- she wants desperately to have this child, to pass it off as her own. This is not what normal people do, Nancy. So even though they have withdrawn their insanity plea, I still think we`re going to hear testimony during the course of the trial --
GRACE: Holly?
HUGHES: -- that there is something wrong with her.
GRACE: Holly?
HUGHES: Nancy?
GRACE: I`m checking your C.V., and I see J.D., not M.D.
HUGHES: And that`s why we have Dr. Austin.
GRACE: FYI, they`ve already had psychiatrists and psychologists review all of her records. They have all examined her. And they can`t pay somebody to say she`s insane -- Dr. Leslie Austin?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right. There`s a difference between being a psychopath and being insane. And psychopaths, you can do horrible, terrible deeds because you have no empathy for anyone. But you can have the capacity to plan and premeditate and execute in fact. Usually psychopaths are excellent at that. So the insanity defense here legally and psychologically will not hold.
GRACE: With me, Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, former member FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force.
Steve, question. What about the physical evidence at the home? How will that help me show premeditation? What evidence is showing me she is not insane?
DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, you`re going to see in the collection of evidence the baseball bat, the blood, the body was dragged into the basement. There`s a blood trail, the knife.
Nancy, they say that a photograph is worth more than 1,000 words. Well, when those police took those photographs, you will see beyond any doubt that this was a cold, calculated, premeditated double homicide.
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GRACE: UK royals set to file criminal charges over topless photos?
Straight out to Atika Shubert, CNN correspondent, joining me from Buckingham Palace.
Atika, what happened? It`s Kate Middleton, correct?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It`s Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge. And basically she and her husband, Prince William, were photographed when they were on a private holiday in the south of France. And they were basically sunbathing. She didn`t have her top on. And unfortunately for them, a paparazzi photographer many hundreds of meters away had a very long lens and was able to take some snaps. And that made it into a French magazine on Friday. And this is what the royal couple is now suing for.
GRACE: To Hugo Vickers, royals biographer and author of "Behind Closed Doors." When Atika Shubert says she was sunbathing, there`s a big difference. Was she on a nude beach, or was she on a boat, a yacht, or was she up on a private balcony of the home? Where was she, Hugo?
HUGO VICKERS, ROYALS BIOGRAPHER, AUTHOR OF "ALICE: PRINCE ANDREW OF GREECE": She was actually staying with Lord Linley, Princess Margaret`s son, at a chateau that he has in Provence. It was an entirely private holiday. And therefore it was outrageous that she should be photographed in this way.
GRACE: To Jennifer Buhl, former paparazzi, currently writing a book, joining me out of L.A.
Weigh in, Jennifer. How did they get a shot like this?
JENNIFER BUHL, FORMER PAPARAZZI, CURRENTLY WRITING A BOOK ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES: Hi, Nancy. Well, it sounds like they got a shot because the photographer was standing maybe on a public road or public land of some kind. But I think the real legal issue here was, did she have an expectation of privacy? And I know in the United States, in your back yard, you do have an expectation of privacy. In your front yard, you do not.
So I don`t know where she was standing at the chateau, but I imagine the pool might have been in the backyard.
GRACE: Back to Atika Shubert, CNN correspondent, joining me from Buckingham Palace.
Explain, Atika, where was she exactly when the photos were taken of her without a top on?
SHUBERT: Well, she was basically in a private home on a private balcony. It was in a secluded area. But there was a line of vision several hundred meters away on a public road.
France has some very tough privacy laws, however, and with the royal couple suing, it could still mean possibly even jail time for the photographer or at the very least a very hefty fine. That`s not always the case in other countries, but in France it`s pretty tough.
GRACE: You know what? I think she`s right, Hugo Vickers, author of "Behind Closed Doors." Explain to me how the law is different there and how that`s going to protect Kate Middleton.
VICKERS: Well, unfortunately it hasn`t protected Kate Middleton. This is the awful thing. Because of course a fine means very little to a magazine that none of us have heard of until last week and now we`ve all heard of. I mean they could put that down in very good advertising. What would be much better would be if the editor and the photographer were actually sent to prison and given a custodial sentence.
I don`t know if that`s possible or not, because that might have lead to warn people that this sort of thing is completely unacceptable.
I mean, Nancy, you remember very clearly what happened to the Princess of Wales, to Diana, that`s began this kind of hunting of her, this paranoia that was introduced to her, and the end was tragic. And this should not be allowed to happen.
GRACE: And you know what, Hugo? This is the last thing that Prince William needs. He lost his mother after a paparazzi chase. And now here is his beautiful wife. She`s minding her own business on a balcony in the backyard when someone snaps her without a shirt on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Alexis Tereszcuk, I`m not talking about Prince Harry without his clothes on, living it up in Vegas. And please, Liz, don`t show me his naked behind again, I`ve seen it enough.
I`m talking about Kate Middleton. And she`s not on the nude beach, Alexis. So where do they get the idea they`ve got a right to print this?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Absolutely. You`re exactly right. She is in a private home. It`s a residence. It is her relative`s home. It`s a huge estate. In fact, she`s at the swimming pool which is upstairs. It`s got a wall around it and there are 80 acres of woods surrounding her. There`s no reason that anybody should have been able to take a picture of her.
GRACE: And now from the "National Enquirer," Mike Walker.
Mike, what do you think about these photos?
MIKE WALKER, GOSSIP EDITOR/COLUMNIST, NATIONAL ENQUIRER: I think they`re going to be amazing. They`re going to make these magazines a lot of money. As you know the French magazine "Closer" published them. The Italian magazine "Chi" followed up with 200 images, they`re promising to publish. These are both magazines owned, by the way, by the prime minister of Italy, the very randy, naughty, Silvio Berlusconi, the guy who hosted all those Bunga Bunga orgy --
GRACE: The prime minister of Italy owns the magazine, Mike Walker?
WALKER: Yes, he does. He does. That`s correct. Silvio Berlusconi. Randy Silvio. The man known --
GRACE: Well, so much for --
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: -- for his belly dancers and --
GRACE: -- relations between Great Britain and Italy, Mike Walker.
WALKER: Well --
(LAUGHTER)
WALKER: By the way, let me just say one thing about laws. We have the same law in this country. It`s just as strict as it is in France. Expectation of privacy is everything. However, let me just say this. That, you know, we would not have published those photos because we consider ourselves a family publication. We wouldn`t have done it.
But the French editor of this magazine says -- he actually is quoted as saying, he thinks that the royal family should take the chance, in his humble opinion, quote, "Take the opportunity to comment on the scoop," with the typical British humor by saying so what? So what indeed?
GRACE: Well, you know what, Mike Walker? The "Enquirer" is laying on the floor by my sofa at home. And I hope my twins don`t pick it up and see a nude photo, Mike Walker. FYI.
You know, why do they have to do this to her? Especially in light of what happened to Diana?
Everyone, "DR. DREW" is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
