Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Ohio Inmate Too Obese for Execution?
Aired September 18, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Lakewood, Ohio. Mother of three Helen Vance gunned down execution-style all over $100, her pocketbook and a 13-inch TV. That`s the beginning of the story. Here`s the rest.
Bombshell tonight. Fast-forward. The thug that murders Mommy now says he`s too obese -- yes, too fat -- for justice. Really? Well, he didn`t think there was any reason not to gun down Mommy at Christmastime. Oh, yes, he`s got to go on a diet -- the death row diet!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A severely obese Ohio inmate files court papers arguing he can`t be executed because he`s too fat. Ronald Post was convicted of murder and sentenced to death for his crime. However, his lawyers argue he would encounter a torturous and lingering death by his executioners. They say his weight, vein access, scar tissue, depression and other medical problems would make a humane death impossible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Lakewood, Ohio. Mother of three Helen Vance gunned down execution-style over $100, her pocketbook and a 13-inch TV. Fast-forward, the thug that murders Mommy at Christmastime, mother of three, now says he`s too fat for justice, too obese for the death penalty. There he is. He doesn`t look too fat for the death penalty to me.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, too fat for justice?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Cruel and unusual punishment. His attorneys are saying that to execute him would be (SOUND DROP-OUT) he`s not going to fit on the gurney for execution. Number two, they`re not going to be able to find a vein to do that lethal injection. And number three, it would be a torturous and lingering death.
GRACE: To Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining me out of Columbia. You know, Dr. Dupre, obese people have surgery all the time. They find veins. They get on gurneys. Help me out here, Doctor.
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Indeed, Nancy. It may be more difficult, but certainly not impossible. Scar tissue would make it harder to get the vein into the vessel -- the needle into the vessel, but it can certainly be done. And...
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Dr. Dupre -- Dr. Dupre, obese people have to go under anesthesia for heart surgery when they have heart attacks, the have stomach staplings, they have all sorts of gastro issues that require surgery. Hospitals manage to find veins then. And very often, that`s under emergency conditions. Isn`t that right, Dr. Dupre?
DUPRE: That is absolutely right, Nancy. And there are ways to cut down veins and there are ways to adjust the dosage of the medications to account for the weight of the person. Absolutely.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. Let`s focus off Ronald Post for one minute, weighing in, tipping the scales at 480 pounds. Many court watchers, legal eagles like myself, believe he`s trying to eat his way off death row. That`s right, he has gained weight behind bars. Why? Why is that? He`s eating that jailhouse food and gaining weight? There`s a story here.
Now, his lawyers insist after he guns down a mom, a mother of three, just before Christmas -- she`s got three little children -- just before Christmas, he guns her down. She`s a clerk at a Slumber Inn hotel. Wasn`t that the name of it, Ellie, Slumber Inn? He comes up, shoots her execution-style in the head. What does he get? A hundred dollars, her empty pocketbook and a 13-inch TV. Mommy is dead over a 13-inch TV.
He`s convicted. He gets a jury with his peers. He gets the death penalty. But now fast-forward. He says he`s too fat for justice.
We are taking your calls. Out to Melissa Neeley, anchor and reporter with WLW, joining us out of Cincinnati. Melissa, tell me some more about the facts.
MELISSA NEELEY, WLW (via telephone): Well, what we do know is that Ronald Post -- of course, he weighs 480 pounds, but he has had plenty of opportunity at the southern Ohio correctional (SOUND DROP-OUT) Although the doctors are saying that if he does that at this point with his weight size, he may injure himself, he was attempting to ride a bicycle, a stationary bike, and he broke that bike.
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Melissa Neeley, joining me from WLW -- the calls are coming in so fast in my ear. (SOUND DROP-OUT) say about exercise?
NEELEY: Well, they do have plenty of opportunities at the prison for the prisoners to exercise. And they had a stationary bike there, where he was attempting to ride it and broke the bike. And he also has -- you know, they have a rec room there with chin-up bars and they`re allowed to walk in their rec room area, which a lot of prisoners do. But he has not utilized any of this at all. And at this point, doctors are saying it`s actually dangerous for him to be walking around.
GRACE: Joining me now, Wendy Whitman, calling on the story. Wendy, what more can you tell me about the facts? I especially want to hear about the mom, Helen Vance, a hotel desk clerk at the Slumber Inn working the midnight shift. You know, Wendy, when I was going through law school, I worked late nights at a restaurant. Very often, I`d be there all by myself right behind the cash register. Go ahead, Wendy.
WENDY WHITMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, the whole premise of this argument is off because this guy should have been executed back in `85, which was his original execution date. And now everyone`s talking about all his little legal rights. It`s just ridiculous!
And for those arguing that Ronald Post`s life should be spared because of his weight, I`d ask them why a killer should ever get a better deal than their victim and remind them that he shot and killed Helen Vance for $100 and a little TV and that`s what he thought her life was worth. So why should his life be worth anything at all?
GRACE: Wendy, what are you talking about, 1985 and he was supposed to get the death penalty then?
WHITMAN: That`s what he was -- then he had, you know, the typical 20, 30 years of appeals.
GRACE: Everybody, his jail amenities -- he`s living in what`s called a pod, OK? There`s only four other inmates. It`s like a little fraternity house. They can buy food, snacks, hygiene products. They can have access to magazines, books, TV. He`s not working.
He`s eating. He`s eating his way off death row! And guess what he had recently? A hamburger patty with a veggie burger alternative. He had bread, potatoes, vegetables, banana, and don`t forget, of course, he had dessert, OK? Of course.
We`re taking your calls. I wonder what her three children have to say about this, having to relive the entire thing all over again. He guns down a mother of three just before Christmas. But now that it`s time, time to pay the piper -- he danced to the music, now it`s time the pay the piper! The death penalty is in place. He says he`s too fat for justice, too obese for the death penalty.
It`s not like he`s got to run around a track to the electric chair. It`s death by needle. Death by needle is when you get a shot, typically, of three different drugs. Now, Ohio on a one-drug protocol at this time.
We`re taking your calls. Debbie in Florida. Hi, Debbie. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, number one, it`s a heinous crime. Two, how do they get so fat in jail? And three, up the lethal dose and get rid of this disgusting person!
GRACE: You know, Debbie, what I don`t understand is how he got fat behind bars, number one. But number two, how can a court take this seriously when he goes into jail much lighter, and then he gains so much weight that he works himself into an appellate argument that he`s too fat for the death penalty. He was not too obese to pull the trigger.
Out to Paul Campos, professor of law joining me out of Boulder. He`s an obesity law expert and author of "Don`t Go to Law School (Unless)." Paul, I`m interested in what you`ve got to say. Weigh in.
PAUL CAMPOS, PROF. OF LAW, OBESITY LAW EXPERT (via telephone): We can`t just execute people any which way in the United States. You know, we have a lot of law on this, and you can`t undertake an execution through lethal injection unless you can do it in a reasonably humane and efficacious fashion.
And so I`m not surprised that his attorneys are claiming here that they won`t be able to do this in his case because, in fact, it is often very difficult to find veins for people who are very fat, especially given that in the case of lethal injection, you`ve got to remember trained medical personnel can`t really participate in these -- in these kinds of events because it`s against the canons ethics of doctors and nurses to do so.
GRACE: Paul Campos, you`re absolutely correct. My question to you, Paul Campos -- you have a JD, do you not?
CAMPOS: I do, yes.
GRACE: And do you have an MD, as well?
CAMPOS: No, I do not.
GRACE: So have you ever at any point tried to find a vein in an obese person?
CAMPOS: No.
GRACE: Oh, OK. Well, when you`re talking about how hard it is to find a vein in an obese person, you do realize, Professor Campos, that the obese have surgeries every day in our country, and in fact, they have to find -- doctors have to find a vein for the obese patient. That`s correct, right?
CAMPOS: Well, doctors aren`t going to participate in this execution. Doctors are not allowed to do so under their own canons of ethics. So it`s not going to be somebody who`s trained to find veins in people. It`s going to be somebody...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So Professor Campos, are you telling me that the reason he should not get the death penalty is because it`s going to be hard to find a vein?
(CROSSTALK)
CAMPOS: No, I`m not making that argument myself. I would make the argument that the reason he...
GRACE: But that`s what you just said!
CAMPOS: This is a very problematic case, Nancy. You haven`t mentioned certain aspects of it which are...
GRACE: Please do.
CAMPOS: For example, he -- this guy didn`t get a jury trial. He pled guilty.
GRACE: Right, he pled guilty, which means there`s not even -- there`s not even a question. He pled nolo contendere, I do not -- I do not contest it.
CAMPOS: Right. And he was obviously given what appears to be very incompetent advice by his counsel at the time because...
GRACE: Really? Because it`s gone up on appeal.
CAMPOS: And if he pled no contest, he wouldn`t get the death penalty. Well, he was...
GRACE: He went up on appeal. This has gone to the appellate court, Professor!
CAMPOS: Yes, that`s right. But once he`s been given a death penalty, it`s, of course, extremely difficult to reverse on appeal.
GRACE: That`s not true.
CAMPOS: No, it is true. It`s quite difficult...
GRACE: No, it`s not true!
CAMPOS: It`s quite difficult...
GRACE: There are stays on the death penalty all the time, Professor. Let me ask you another question, Professor Paul Campos. How many murder trials have you actually tried?
CAMPOS: I have not tried any murder trials. I have not done criminal law.
GRACE: OK.
Back to the lines. Who`s our next caller, Liz? June in Virginia. Hi, June. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. I have been a nurse, and I had to give an IV to a man that weighed over 500 pounds. It wasn`t hard to find his veins if you just stopped and looked. I know as a trained professional that you can find them.
Now, I heard the man say that a professional can`t do it. Why not? And what does this man think, that he`s -- just because he`s fat, he can`t die?
GRACE: You know, June in Virginia, I want to keep you on the line just one moment. June in Virginia, I really do want to address Professor Paul Campos`s issues. He is a professor of law, obesity law expert, who says how difficult it is to find a vein in an obese person.
OK, June in Virginia, you are a registered nurse. How do you find a vein? I remember when I was in the hospital giving birth and I got blood clots to my lungs, went into congestive heart failure, there was a nurse that was training that came and practiced on my arm at about 4:00 AM one morning. The next morning, my arm was black and blue, black and blue where she tried to find a vein. Finally, another nurse came in. They found the vein.
Tell me, how do you do that, June? How hard is it to find a vein on an obese person?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not hard at all. You put the tourniquet on. You feel, and then you find the vein. Now, yes, it`s a little bit more difficult for a fatter person -- and I`m not going to call him obese, he`s fat.
But anyway, you just feel. And you can feel through the layers of fat and you can feel a vein pop up. I don`t care how little you are or how fat you are, you can find a vein. I don`t care who you are, a trainee, nobody that knows how. All you do is put the tourniquet on and feel. That`s all you have to do.
I`m sorry. I`m getting excited because I can`t stand the thoughts of this man going -- oh! It makes me mad!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A severely obese Ohio inmate files court papers arguing he can`t be executed because he`s too fat. Ronald Post was convicted of murder and sentenced to death, but his lawyers argue he would endure a torturous and lingering death at the hands of his executioners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. He guns down a mother of three just before Christmas. Can you imagine that? Just before Christmas, three young children lose their mother to murder. Over what? A hundred dollars cash, her pocketbook and a 13-inch TV.
Now, she`s not like a lot of moms that get to be home with their children every night. She was working the night shift at a Slumber Inn as a clerk, trying to make ends meet, trying to arrange for upcoming Christmas for her three children when she is gunned down execution-style by this guy. He looked a lot different then.
Fast forward. Now he says he`s too obese for the death penalty, too fat for justice. That`s what he is claiming. We are taking your calls.
Unleash the lawyers, Faith Jenkins, former prosecutor, New York, Randy Kessler, chair of the family law section of the American Bar Association, Penny Douglas Furr, defense lawyer, Atlanta.
All right, weigh in, Kessler.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Justice Brennan wrote in Fermer (ph) versus Georgia that the cruel and unusual punishment -- it can`t be degrading to human dignity. We may hate this guy...
GRACE: Put him up.
KESSLER: ... we may not like him, but what makes us human is we don`t treat him in an inhumane manner.
GRACE: Kessler?
KESSLER: Yes?
GRACE: Isn`t it true that under the case you are citing to, the death penalty is not reversed. Lethal...
KESSLER: That`s true.
GRACE: ... injection death penalty -- lethal injection death penalty is not reversed. What you have just done is cite from the discussion the argument within the case. But in the very case that you are trying to cite to me in your favor, the death penalty by lethal injection is upheld, is it not?
KESSLER: It is upheld, but it can`t be done in a way that`s degrading to human dignity and...
GRACE: Lethal injection is exactly what is upheld in that case, Randy!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ronald Post was convicted of murder and sentenced to death. His lawyers argue he would endure a torturous and lingering death at the hands of his executioners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. He guns down a mom of three while she works the night shift. But now, when it`s time for the death penalty all these years later -- and don`t think a jury got it wrong. He pled nolo contendere. I do not contest the charges. This has also gone up on appeal and been upheld by an appellate court.
We are taking your calls. Sharmel, Arkansas. Hi, Sharmel. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, he is 480-plus pounds, correct?
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he is saying that it is inhumane for him to go through the death penalty? Well, what about that mother of those three children? Wasn`t it inhumane for her to be shot in the head twice?
GRACE: You know what? Penny Douglas Furr, let`s follow up with that. The way she was gunned down was inhumane to me.
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely it was inhumane, Nancy. But the point is we do not treat people in the same manner they behave. We`re supposed to be humane even if we`re killing someone. And it`s my understanding it`s not just the vein, there`s some problems with his vein, that it may be handled by just giving him more of the medication. But there is a problem in addition to finding a vein with this man.
GRACE: Well, you know what would be a great answer to that, Faith Jenkins? To put him out before he gets the needle. Now, with the three- drug protocol, you are somewhat more numb. So Faith, why can`t there be a numbing agent or twilight sleep anesthesia before he gets the needle? Why not?
FAITH JENKINS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think there can be. I mean, here`s the -- here`s the deal. He may be protected from cruel and unusual punishment, but that does not guarantee a person that their lethal injection will be pain-free. He may experience some discomfort. There may -- it may take some time to find a vein. That does not mean that this rises to the level of cruel and unusual punishment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A severely obese Ohio inmate files court papers arguing he can`t be executed because he`s too fat. Ronald Post was convicted of murder and sentenced to death for his crime. However, his lawyers argue he would encounter a torturous and lingering death by his executioners. They say his weight, vein access, scar tissue, depression and other medical problems would make a humane death impossible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: He gunned down a mother of three just before Christmas. She was working as a night clerk at a slumber inn when she was murdered, execution style. Multiple gunshot wounds to the head. Over what? $100 cash, her pocketbook and a 13-inch TV. Her children are left without a mother because of this guy.
And now, now that he has -- it`s time for him to face the death penalty, he says he`s too fat for justice. Too obese for the death penalty. He`s eaten his way up to 480 pounds behind bars.
First, to Melissa Neeley, anchor-reporter with WLW.
Melissa, I don`t quite understand his argument because I`ve read the brief here. And it says his death should be quick and painless, but there would be a risk that he would have physical pain.
Now, Melissa, we all know that in some jurisdictions there`s death by firing squad. There was death by electric chair, old Sparky. So what is the issue with some discomfort, and what is the response, Melissa Neeley, to his argument, he`s too fat for justice?
MELISSA NEELEY, ANCHOR/REPORTER, 700 WLW: Well, I don`t think that it`s going to be a winning battle for this because we just had a case in Ohio about four years ago where another man tried the same argument and he was successfully executed. So I don`t think this is going to work for Post. And also just a few years ago some nurses were able to enter an I.V. just after three attempts. That took three times to get that I.V. in, but it was successful and he was able to get the medication that he needed at that time.
GRACE: So this just a ruse to delay the death penalty yet again.
We`re taking your calls. Lori in Connecticut. Hi, Lori. What`s your question?
LORI, CALLER FROM CONNECTICUT: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say really quick that anybody having gastric bypass surgery has to have an I.V. and they are just as fat, just as obese. And they are humanely given an I.V. I`m also a nurse, and this really upsets me, because -- and I`ve also had a cut down. So I`ve had an I.V. not be able to put into me. So -- and that wasn`t even really painful.
My question to you would be, did he bother asking this woman if she was too short or too chubby or too skinny to be shot before he shot her?
GRACE: You know, Lori in Connecticut, he asked her nothing. He gunned down this mother right before Christmas. If you can even imagine that.
With me right now, Bill Vantz is with us. His mom Helen was gunned down while she worked the night shift to try to give them a wonderful Christmas. Because of Ronald Post. Who has sat behind bars and eaten his way to 480 pounds in order to escape the death penalty.
Bill, thank you for being with us. I want to hear your reaction to his argument.
BILL VANTZ, MURDER VICTIM`S SON: Well, I think it`s laughable. You know, he wasn`t obese when he pulled the trigger. And, you know, he`s only gotten obese because it`s taken so long to get to this point. If it was 20 years ago, he wouldn`t have been this obese. And, you know, I`ve got to blame the judicial system for that. I hold no bars against them. It`s -- the entire procedure was convoluted because he pleaded no contest which just opened the doors for appeals.
GRACE: But in fact it has gone up on appeal and it has -- his conviction has been affirmed. And not only that, Bill Vantz -- with me is Helen`s son, in response to this man`s argument that his mother`s murderer should escape the death penalty because he`s gained weight. He weighs 480 pounds as of tonight`s show.
Bill, he did not -- he never said he was not guilty. He never said he did not do it. In fact, he pled no contest. I do not contest the charge of murder. This has gone up on appeal, on appeal, on appeal. It`s gone to the highest courts in our country. There was a plethora of evidence against him, Bill. What was some of the evidence against him that proves he did deed?
VANTZ: You know, in response to your earlier statement, yes, he apologized in open court for doing it. So, you know, he was (INAUDIBLE). And you know, why it took so long, why all the appeals. Hey, you tell me.
GRACE: You know, another issue is the acting director, the medical director denied a requested for gastric bypass surgery, stating it was not medically necessary. This guy has been, for so long, gaining weight behind bars. He actually petitioned for bariatric surgery.
Dr. Michelle Dupre, what is that?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, bariatric surgery is for people who are morbidly obese where -- depending on the type of surgery done, the stomach is actually shrunk or cut out. And it is -- it`s quite an extensive surgery but it is designed to help that person control their weight, lose weight and then maintain it.
GRACE: So bottom line, at first he wanted to lose weight and even asked for surgery. But then he latched on to the idea that he could escape the death penalty by being obese. And he then was on a mission to gain weight to escape the death penalty. He now tips the scales at 480 pounds.
We are taking your calls. Out to Jim in Georgia. Hi, Jim. What`s your question?
JIM, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Yes, ma`am. Ohio was successful with the lethal injection for an obese man. Why can`t this state -- I mean, they could put a port or pick line in him and a carotid artery. Any -- there`s millions of arteries. They could get him if they wanted to.
What are they waiting on?
GRACE: You know, to Lisa Lockwood, former police detective, author of "Undercover Angel", what do you make of this, Lisa?
LISA LOCKWOOD, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE, AUTHOR OF "UNDERCOVER ANGEL": Here`s a man who had ample opportunity to exercise. Somebody who just maybe got into a depressive state because he knew he was going to be executed one day, continued to eat, and now he`s got this great story on why it`s going to be cruel and unusual.
It`s just tactic. It`s a delayed tactic and it`s a ploy. And I agree with you 100 percent. You can totally use anesthesia and this thing will be null and void and he`ll be taken care of sooner rather than later.
GRACE: Behind bars, this guy, Ronald Post, now weighing 480 pounds, tells a cellmate that he had made a written confession. He confessed repeatedly to this mother of three`s murder and robbery of just $100 cash. He made multiple confessions. He admitted in open court that he was a killer.
This mom of three`s possessions were found at his home. He pled guilty under nolo contendere. But even though the murder of a mother of three just before Christmas is uncontested, he now says he`s too fat for justice. Weighing in, tipping the scales at 480 pounds.
What do you think? Can you be too fat for justice?
Shifting gears, everyone, I want to remind you, Friday night, 8:00 Eastern, cold blooded murder. Gambling. Jealousy. Inside the most baffling and heinous crimes ever committed. Cutting edge technique. Science combined with crimes sleuthing, we uncover what makes the average man or a woman cross the line to commit murder. Sometimes the answer is simple. Other times the answer is never found.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Back in 90 seconds.
Tonight we remember Army Private First Class Damian Bushart, Waterford, Michigan. Bronze Star, Army Service Ribbon, Combat Action Badge. Loved martial arts. Parents, John, Patricia, brother, Eric. Son, Joshua.
Damian Bushart. American hero.
Back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Murder could get you the death penalty in Ohio. Overeating could get you off the hook. At least that`s what one Ohio inmate is trying to argue. In court papers filed by his attorneys, Ronald Post argues that his inability to exercise and depression has caused him to balloon to his current weight of 480 pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ronald Post was convicted of murder and sentenced to death, but his lawyers argue he would endure a torturous and lingering death at the hands of his executioners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He guns down a mom of three, working the night shift at a slumber inn. But now he says he`s simply too fat for justice.
We`re taking your calls. But I want to go to an expert in the field. Paul Campos, professor of law and obesity expert.
Professor Campos, you were describing how there is not a doctor or nurse, a certified doctor or nurse, to find the vein to allow death by lethal injection. Actually, in the jurisdiction of Ohio, the law says persons who are currently qualified under Ohio law to administer and prepare drugs for intravenous injections and intramuscular injections, they must have at least one-year experience as a certified medical assistant, a phlebotomist and vein specialist, an EMT, paramedic, or military corpsman.
Professor Campos.
PAUL CAMPOS, PROFESSOR OF LAW AND OBESITY EXPERT: Yes. Unfortunately the situation with lethal injection in the United States is that we have had some very, very bad experiences with people suffering tremendously during lethal injection executions because doctors and nurses are prohibited by their (INAUDIBLE) of ethics from participating. Now sometimes people who have some sort of training --
GRACE: Well, some sort of training? A certified medical assistant, a phlebotomist, an EMT? If an EMT can work on me or my father or my mother or my children, why can`t they work on this guy? Why can`t they find a vein on this guy?
CAMPOS: Well, maybe they will be able to find a vein. But I mean I think that this is very troubling that we`re so eager to just kill this guy.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa. Wait, wait. Paul Campos, do you know the date of this murder? It was December of 1983. It`s almost 2013. So I don`t think 30 years is over eager. Thirty years of waiting not over eager, Professor Campos.
CAMPOS: Well, Nancy, I just think that it`s really very unfortunate that somebody who had extremely poor legal representation and pled no --
GRACE: He pled guilty.
CAMPOS: He pled no contest --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes, no contest.
CAMPOS: Because he was told that he wouldn`t get the death penalty if he pleaded no contest. And he was obviously given incorrect advice because he --
GRACE: It went all the way up on appeal to the highest appeal court - - appellate courts in this country.
And as a matter of fact, to you, Matt Zarrell, he knew exactly what he was doing when he gunned down this mom of three. In fact he talked to her. He chitchatted with her at the slumber inn for hours there in the lobby before he murdered her, did he not, Matt Zarrell?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Nancy, yes, he had planned to rob the place actually hours earlier with a couple of friends. They had went inside. And when he saw the mid-afternoon desk clerk, it was actually someone he knew. That`s when he went out. He actually dropped his friends off, came back, and was introduced to the victim by the hotel clerk who was already working there who personally knew Post.
At that time that`s when the hotel clerk that he knows leaves. The victim and the killer are sitting there. They are talking for a while for at least an hour from what we believe. And then at that point what happens is the killer goes behind the victim as she`s working and she`s calling in wake-up calls for the residents at the hotel. And that is when he shoots her twice in the back of the head. She`s found slumped over her chair with her pencil still clasped in her hand.
GRACE: To Bill Vantz, Helen`s son, when you hear these facts, how angry, how disturbing does it make you to realize her killer now claims he`s too fat for justice?
VANTZ: Well, it`s very upsetting. I mean, you know, I`ve been waiting nearly 30 years for this. You know, and this is just another delay. It`s 120 days until his execution. And all of the sudden this pops up. You know, I just want this over with. My family wants this over with. There`s a lot of people out there who want this over with. And let`s do it. You know? I don`t care. He was originally sentenced to die in the electric chair.
OK? They ruled that to be cruel and unusual. Hey, I don`t care. You know? He`s put me through 30 years of crap. So I don`t care how they do it. I just want it done in 120 days, as scheduled.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: He guns down a mother of three over $100. But now at 480 pounds, has he eaten his way out of justice?
We`re taking your calls. To Marie, New York. Hi, Marie. What`s your question?
MARIE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Yes. I`m just saying that I don`t believe he is too fat for execution. I`m also a nurse and, you know, they can do an I.V. down him to his subclavian, they can many things to get an I.V. into him. And it wouldn`t be painful.
I had a horse that was over 1300 pounds that broke its leg and they injected him and he was dead within less than a minute. So if they can do it to a horse --
GRACE: So it can be done, Marie in New York. You are so right.
To Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist, what has this put Helen`s family through all these year since their mom died?
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s terrible. It`s such a re-experiencing for them. You know they let the justice system run its course. And a punishment was given. And now using this sort of strange, you know, appeal, this is really putting this family through a trauma again. I mean you can hear it in Bill Vantz`s words, I want this to be done. I want this done.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A severely obese Ohio inmate files court papers arguing he can`t be executed because he`s too fat. Ronald Post was convicted of murder and sentenced to death for his crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go out to Teresa. Hi, Teresa. What`s your question?
TERESA, CALLER: Well, actually this really bothers me. Because he didn`t show mercy when he killed her. So why should they show mercy now?
GRACE: Teresa, that`s what a lot of -- a lot of people are questioning tonight that --
(CROSSTALK)
TERESA: I`m going to tell you. That -- we had a case that just happened here that the man shot his wife with three little kids in the house. OK? So that really, really bothers me. And I don`t know why we had to wait 30 years to kill him.
GRACE: Thirty years, although Professor Campos says we`re overeager for the death penalty. It`s been 30 years since this.
You know, Teresa, under our Constitution we`re not like a lot of other countries where you steal a loaf of bread, you get your hand chopped off. Where we don`t stone women to death when they are perceived to have committed adultery.
Our government functions under the constitution which disallows cruel and inhumane punishment. And that is actually why death by needle or lethal injection was created. To avoid the firing range, to avoid the electric chair, which was perceived to have been too painful. That`s why the killer simply goes to sleep.
To Marie in Virginia. Hi, Marie. What`s your question?
MARIE, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. I`m calling -- I too am a nurse and I agree with everybody about the pick line and even getting a Doppler in there so that the person who does do the injection typically can also find the vein. This man has had every opportunity for three squares, wireless Internet, medical health care, you name it. And a burden on the taxpayers.
You know, if I weren`t in a compact state and if I didn`t have to swear to do no harm as my oath as a nurse, I would gladly find a vein on that man.
GRACE: You know what, Jean Casarez, she`s right. Weigh in, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, we`re forgetting something so important. Several years ago this man had to go to Ohio State University Medical facility for an I.V. Guess what? They found a vein. Several years ago they found a vein. That`s all you need to hear.
GRACE: You know, Jean, it`s amazing how you can cut through all the mounds and mounds of paper work we`ve got as research and hit on the right fact.
Everyone, "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
