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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Toxic Secrets Inside Jodi Arias Murder Case; Baby Gabriel`s Dad Speaks; Green Day Singer Loses It on Stage

Aired September 24, 2012 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Talk to them about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jane Velez-Mitchell would talk about it.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, beautiful but deadly Jodi Arias, charged with the gruesome murder of her ex-boyfriend, appears in court as lawyers try to suppress evidence they say could make her appear like a cold-blooded killer. Will this seductive murder defendant be able to charm a jury into believing that she`s innocent? That story, next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, missing Baby Gabriel`s father takes the stand to testify against the boy`s mother. He claims his ex, Elizabeth Johnson, told him she suffocated their baby, then threw him in the trash. But then she said she gave her son away to a stranger. Prosecutors claim Elizabeth used this adorable baby boy as a pawn for revenge after she was dumped. Was she a woman scorned? We`ll take you inside this mysterious disappearance.

Plus, did this beauty kill her ex-boyfriend when he tried to tell her it`s over? Jodi Arias, accused of shooting and slitting her former flame`s throat and stabbing him 27 times. She says it was self-defense. Now will some last-minute courtroom maneuvers make it more difficult for the state to prove its case?

And the lead singer of the band Green Day loses it on stage, and it`s all caught on camera. Shortly after that, he announces he`s seeking treatment for a secret substance abuse struggle. We`ll show you the onstage meltdown that has everyone talking.

And we`re taking your calls for the hour.

JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF MURDER: Sorry. Don`t roll the tape yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Ann Arias puts on her makeups right before the cameras went on. The soft-spoken 28-year-old remained calm and composed during this jailhouse interview. Jodi Arias is behind bars on a charge of first-degree murder.

The petite 28-year-old from Yreka, California, is accused of murdering her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander. His body was discovered June 9 in his basement home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Motivational speaker Travis Alexander was viciously murdered at his Mesa home back in June, stabbed 27 times, his throat slit. He was also shot in the head. Police say DNA evidence, including a bloody palm print found at the scene, links Jodi Arias to the murder.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, toxic secrets inside a truly shocking murder case. It sounds too bizarre to be true, but it is.

Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

It all centers around this woman, 31-year-old Jodi Arias. This petite angel-faced young woman is accused of the unthinkable: shooting and stabbing her ex-boyfriend to death inside his house. And now her attorneys are trying to suppress evidence that they say could make her -- make her look like a cold-blooded killer with absolutely no remorse.

Prosecutors say Jodi went to the Arizona home of her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in June of 2008, and shot him in the face, stabbed him 27 times, and slit his throat from ear to ear. Travis` friends found him, and here`s what they immediately told the 911 operator. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s -- he`s dead. He`s in his bedroom in the shower.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. How did this happen? Do you have any idea?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no idea. Everyone has been wondering about him for a few days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You said that there`s blood. So is it coming from his head? Did he cut his wrists?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all over the place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi`s explanations have been all over the place, too. She told police that two people broke into the house and attacked both of them. Jodi claims she escaped and drove off without telling anyone.

But now court documents reveal Jodi may be claiming she did kill him but in self-defense. That her ex was violent towards her. But then at other times, Jodi has insisted she did not kill him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?

ARIAS: Absolutely not. No, I had no part in it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who do you think killed him?

ARIAS: I have no idea. I`ve done many things that -- that are shameful. But this is not one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is a jury going to do with all these changing stories? And what about when you add this: police found a camera in Travis` washing machine, and cops found secret photos, a series of naked shots of Jodi and Travis together in sexually provocative poses and photos of a bloody Travis as he lay dying?

And I forgot to mention: Jodi`s profession? She is a photographer.

The trial set to start in just a few weeks. What do you think? Is this the face of a calculated sadistic murder? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297.

Straight out to -- we`re delighted to have with us tonight former prosecutor Marcia Clark, author of the fantastic book, "Guilt by Degrees," and famous, of course, for prosecuting the O.J. Simpson case.

Could the trial, Marcia, of Jodi Arias potentially be as big as that case? Some are saying it`s going to be the biggest case since Casey Anthony.

MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think it`s going to be very big; there`s no question about it. It has all of the elements, Jane. It`s got the young girl who doesn`t look like a murderer. You have the young man who is an upstanding citizen, and you have a very heinous crime that is a shocking thing to happen among people of that nature, of that type. So it`s all possible. A very dramatic case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it sure is. And I`ve got to say that the thing that has created so much attention is Jodi herself. Her demeanor, her behavior. She`s acting like it`s a big party. She`s not acting like her life is hanging in the balance. This is a death penalty case.

Take a look at her smiling mug shot. Exhibit A. Look at this. This looks like -- well, it kind of looks like a high-school yearbook photo or a photo you`d put on Linked In when you want to get a job. She`s just been arrested for allegedly murdering her ex-boyfriend, and this is what she looks like?

Here`s how she explained that smile to CBS News` "48 Hours."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: And I thought to myself, you know, what would Travis do if he were in this situation? This is why I`m here. And, you know, barring the fact that he would likely not get himself into such circumstances, he would -- he would be smiling. He would be like, hey, you know. He would just flash this grin that he always does, and so there was part of that. And then also part of the fact that I knew it would be all over the Internet. So why not?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Walsh, we`ll show you in a bit. She engaged in a singing test behind bars. This woman`s behavior has brought a lot of attention to this case. Is she a sociopath, do you think? Is she a psychopath or is she just in complete denial about the level of trouble she`s in?

WENDY WALSH: Let me tell you, Jane, I am fascinated by this young woman`s psychology. I mean, I don`t know enough about it yet, but we`re sure going to see more of it as the trial continues.

But I would say a certain degree of narcissism. She`s smiling because she knows already it`s going to be all over the Internet and maybe she could get famous from this. This young woman definitely has some mental issues. It`s going to be interesting to see as they come out in court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Cathy, I believe you`re from Florida. Cathy, your question or thought?

CALLER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, how you doing?

CALLER: Hi. I watch your show every day. I love everything about it. My -- I`m sorry. My comment is, I don`t understand how this lady, this girl is saying she`s taking revenge, but to slice his throat, shoot him and stab him multiple times? That`s more than revenge.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it could -- it could also be revenge.

Prosecutors are describing her as a scorned woman, a woman who is out for revenge, and she did a lot of bizarre things. Exhibit A on the bizarro factor, the photos she allegedly took, according to prosecutors. Secret photos found on a camera inside Travis` washing machine. There were naked photos of the two of them, photos of sexually-provocative positions, and then photos of Travis naked in the shower, and then photos of him bleeding. It`s an unbelievable series of photos. Something, if you saw it in a horror movie, you`d say, "My God, this is over the top."

Remember, Jodi is a professional photographer by trade. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: They`re just photos that we took, and that we deleted with the intention of -- that wasn`t -- that wasn`t a one-time incident. I mean, there were many times where, you know, we took pictures, whatever, and any kind of media. And it was deleted because it`s just -- it`s just something that we didn`t intend to ever keep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Shannon Hogan, journalist, true crime author, who was there in Phoenix, Arizona. She`s writing a book on this case; she knows it inside out.

What were some of the bizarre things that Jodi, according to Travis` friends, did leading up to this? Apparently, she broke into his e-mail, was stalking other women that he dated. Tell us about that.

SHANNON HOGAN, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR (via phone): Yes, she hacked his Facebook account. If he befriended a girl and she heard about it, she would friend that girl on Facebook or MySpace. She allegedly sent harassing e-mails to women he was dating, which invoked heavy religious undertones, and she allegedly slashed his tires, not once, but twice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I understand that she actually would find out if he was dating another girl, allegedly, and then she at one time snuck into the house and watched them sleeping?

HOGAN: That is one of the things that his friends are saying, that he was at the house with his new girlfriend, and they woke up to her standing over them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. But the truth is that -- does anybody dispute that they were still having a sexual relationship? In other words, the victim had broken up with the defendant, but they were still having sex?

HOGAN: That is according to Jodi. There isn`t -- the victim can`t speak for himself in this case. He can`t say that -- you know, whether the sexual relationship continued. As far as his friends knew, he was still a virgin.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to have to examine that on the other side, given those photographs. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you in love with Travis?

ARIAS: I think that being in love and loving someone are two different things. And there was a point in time where we were in love, but it was short-lived.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you guys break up?

ARIAS: There was sort of a breach of trust in our relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On your part or his part?

ARIAS: Both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. That woman, and the murder victim, met and began dating in February of 2007. We`re told in reports that they did about five months, broke up in around June of `07, and he was dead by June of `08, a year later.

But Shannon Hogan, I have to go back to you. You know the story inside out. They had broken up, but they were allegedly still having sexual relations secretly, because I`m connecting that to the digital camera that supposedly takes pictures of them naked at the same time, or shortly before there`s a photo of him dead.

HOGAN: Yes, their sexual relationship isn`t really in dispute. It was the amount of time it happened after they broke up. You know, obviously, from the photos it`s very clear that they did have a sexual relationship. But it was something that he kept a secret, because it was something that`s against his religion. He was a Mormon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman, HLN contributor, let`s listen to the victim`s best friends say that, when he found out that Travis was dead, he initially, immediately pointed to Jodi and said Jodi was involved. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was one instance where he called me up and told me that he had caught her breaking into his Facebook account. Four days, five days later, he goes missing, and then we find him dead. And I - - that was the first thing to my mind is that, oh, my gosh, Jodi actually killed him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So a lot of people think, this is an open and shut case. You`ve got all the evidence, Jodi`s bloody palm print in the room. The photo -- the camera with these bizarre photos on it.

But then again, Jon Lieberman, everybody thought the Casey Anthony murder trial was an open and shut case. And the thing is, there`s a lot of similarities between these two cases. Each involves a very pretty defendant and a defendant with a tendency toward sort of acting out sexually.

LIEBERMAN: Well, look, Jane, as you very well know, it only takes one juror. It only takes that one person and reasonable doubt, and this woman walks.

But I will tell you, the difference in this case is there is just a plethora of physical evidence. You mentioned it. The bloody palm print on the wall. There`s fibers, hair fibers, her hair fibers at the scene. There`s DNA.

There`s also the fact that she changed her story three different times, finally landing with this self-defense theory. Well, Jane, I`ve never seen a case where the victim is shot first and then stabbed 27 times and then almost decapitated, cut ear to ear, in a self-defense case. I mean, the shot itself would have, you know, kept -- kept the attacker away.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, this is a death penalty case. Why don`t her attorneys insist, if this evidence is so overwhelming, that she take some kind of plea deal to get the death penalty off the table, if possible?

WEINTRAUB: Well, first of all, we don`t know that those kind of discussions have not taken place. We don`t know what the prosecutor`s point is, whether or not they`re willing to waive the death penalty or not. That`s No. 1.

No. 2, interestingly enough, first of all, she`s been in that place before many, many times. So the hair fibers, the DNA, none of that matters. The only piece of evidence so far that matters to me would be the bloody hand print, and that could have happened if she came onto the scene after he was already dead, and that is a possibility, Marcia.

CLARK: Oh, please. Please.

WEINTRAUB: Hold on, hold on. It could happen. Remember, he`s not discovered for five days, Jane. This is not where she -- you know, she is at the scene and the bloody fingerprint or palm print and then they come in and find the dead body. The dead body is not discovered for five days. That`s No. 1.

No. 2, along the lines that you were talking before, they are trying to introduce the lack of remorse as part of the, I guess, proof that she`s guilty, when that hearing will take place in the next week. And I just think that`s absurd. It`s like for maintaining her innocence, the state is going to blame her and say find her guilty?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break I want to get Marcia Clark`s reaction to that, because the evidence that is overwhelming that you didn`t mention is in the camera. It`s in the camera. On the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: There`s a lot of forensics suggesting that I was, you know, in his house. The evidence is very compelling. But none of it proves that I committed a murder. None of it proves I committed a crime. What it does substantiate is what I did tell detectives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marcia Clark, she`s told three different stories, and there`s this camera that has them, first naked in sexually provocative positions. Then him in the shower naked, then him dying in the shower. Isn`t that -- well, do you think -- what is the defense going to do with that?

CLARK: I don`t think there`s any, any possibility that the defense is actually going to actually try to sell the story that she didn`t commit this crime. I think what they`re going to have to do is focus -- or they`ll lose all credibility with the jury. I mean, because this is -- this is really overwhelming evidence that she committed it.

But the question will be not who done it but what they done. And that`s where I think the defense is wise to focus their attention. What is it that she did? Was this an act done in self-defense and then she kind of lost her mind and had a psychotic break and went crazy on him, or was this a rash impulse kind of thing? Was there some kind of provocation that she can claim he did to make her act out in this way and had some form of temporary insanity that had her overkill him, basically: 27 stab pounds, and a throat cut as well as a gunshot to the face. That`s really overkill, and that`s the kind of thing you see in rage killings.

I`m sure they could get a forensic psychiatrist to talk about a state of mind that is less culpable, not "not guilty," but less culpable than someone who, A, deserves the death penalty; or B, maybe even less culpable than someone who deserves a first-degree conviction. So I think that`s where the defense would be smart to focus their attention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Walsh, psychiatrist, got to show you this clip. It`s Jodi`s winning performance in a prison-wide caroling competition. She beat 50 other prisoners to -- you`ve got to check this out. This is beyond comprehension.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (singing): Oh, holy night, the stars are brightly shining. It is the dawn of a new...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Wendy, she told three different stories. She seems to think that this is literally going to be a walk in the park. What does that say about her psychology?

WALSH: OK, she`s a smart, manipulative, misguided and distorted young woman. So here she is performing, and she knows once again this is going to go all over the world on the Internet, so she`s singing a religious song. She`s singing a Christmas song. She`s trying to portray this innocent, religious little girl here.

The truth is, if you believe all the evidence so far that she was breaking into his Facebook account, that she broke into his house and was watching him sleeping with his new girlfriend, that she was a stalker with an obsession.

Unfortunately for this young man, and Jane, this is so common, because the difference in men`s and women`s sexualities is so different. He probably thought, she`s my ex-girlfriend who says it`s OK, that we can now be friends with benefits. But he doesn`t understand that the sexual act has huge emotional impact on women. So it was probably fueling her feelings of obsession and jealousy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I like your analysis. I agree. Obsession. What is that old tag line, "between love and madness lies obsession"? It applies here, I think.

Check out our shocking video of the day. Bystanders tackle a robbery suspect. It`s all caught on tape. The man allegedly robbed a jewelry store. He`s running away. There`s the gun. Cops say it was used in the holdup.

A Seattle affiliate was covering another story, and they got this dramatic video. Witnesses say a hotel doorman was the first to run after the suspect, and he was shot in the arm. He`s OK. But wow, I think it`s fabulous that all these people got together to stop this robbery suspect. That guy is a hero for being shot in the arm. Way to go, doorman!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is Baby Gabriel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 8-month-old was last seen at a Texas motel back in 2009.

LOGAN MCQUEARY, BABY GABRIEL`S FATHER: Where are you?

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, BABY GABRIEL`S MOTHER: I don`t exist anymore. I`m a ghost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy`s mother, 23-year-old Elizabeth Johnson, picks up everything and takes her baby on a two-day journey, traveling from Arizona to San Antonio, Texas.

JOHNSON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when you push them enough.

MCQUEARY: She told me on the phone, "You`re never going to see Gabriel again."

Where are you and where is Gabriel?

JOHNSON: I killed him this morning. Gabriel is in the Dumpster. You want to talk to girls, that`s the price you pay.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, toxic secrets exposed as the father of this precious missing baby, Baby Gabriel, drops bombshells in an Arizona court against the child`s mother, who`s on trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCQUEARY: That`s when I got the first text message from Elizabeth, and the only thing she texted me was, "I killed him." She told me that she killed Gabriel. And I said, no, she didn`t -- or, "No, you didn`t."

And she said, "Yes, you made me -- you made me kill my baby boy."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Baby Gabe last seen almost three years ago when he was only 8 months old. An adorable child. His father, Logan McQueary, emotionally told the jury about the very last time he saw his sweet baby boy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Logan, when was the last time you ever saw Gabriel Johnson?

MCQUEARY: December 8 of 2009, when I returned him with a police officer to the house and put him in his crib. That`s the last time I ever saw Gabriel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the defendant there with the earrings and the purple outfit. She looks like she`s dressed to go out to a nightclub. Her child`s missing. She`s told various stories about where he is. One is that she killed him.

The infant`s mother, 26-year-old Elizabeth Johnson -- right there -- standing trial for kidnapping. Yes, she confessed to strangling the baby, putting him in a diaper bag and throwing his little body in a dumpster like trash.

Listen to this chilling recording.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, ON TRIAL FOR GABRIEL`S DISAPPEARANCE: I suffocated him and he turned blue. And I put him in the diaper bag and put him in the trash can.

MCQUEARY: You did not hurt Gabriel.

JOHNSON: Yes, I did. I suffocated him.

You knew I would do it and you pushed me anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops arrested Elizabeth over 2,000 miles away in Miami. By that time she had changed her story. She told cops that she gave Baby Gabriel to a strange couple in San Antonio. So is this child dead? Or is this mystery couple somewhere raising it?

What do you think? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to Lina Jacobson with "In Session", you were inside the courtroom today, listening to the father`s testimony. But I understand that his hands were tied; that he couldn`t really tell the whole story. What do you know, Lina?

LINA JACOBSON, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, this morning, Jane, we had a hearing where the judge ruled Logan McQueary, Gabriel`s father, could not say anything that might indicate Elizabeth was a bad mom -- if you can believe that. He couldn`t tell the story about him getting an order of protection for himself and his son for instance after she had threatened to do harm to the child previously.

There was another time they had a fight. Logan was on his way out the door and Elizabeth said to him "Take that thing with you." That thing, of course, was Gabriel. Those are stories the jury never heard today, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I find that absolutely outrageous.

Marcia Clark, former prosecutor, famous prosecutor of the O.J. Simpson case, author of "Guilt by Degrees". How come the jury can`t hear the whole story? If she referred to her precious baby boy as "that thing", why can`t the jury hear that?

MARCIA CLARK, AUTHOR, "GUILT BY DEGREES": Well, Jane, you know, of course as a prosecutor, I would want to get that in to show the kind of attitude the mother has toward the baby. They should show the predisposition of the month to treat the baby like a thing, to throw it away that way.

And the judge though has to make a call. He has to make a decision as to whether or not a statement is more prejudicial than probative. And that means it`s more harmful than it really is necessary to prove anything.

The only person that we know of who tells of the story is the father. The father may have an axe to grind. There may be no other evidence to corroborate that she ever said something like this. And if it`s said in a fit of anger, it might also be something that is unfairly undermining of the defense. I`m trying to give -- I`m trying to play devil`s advocate here Jane because I`m not in favor of the ruling. I`m going to say that --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re a prosecutor so you did -- you did a good job there trying to pretend to be a defense attorney. But I`ve got to tell you, yes, the corroborating evidence is that this child is missing and the child disappeared on her watch.

Now cops are not charging Elizabeth with murder, even though she admits on tape to killing Gabriel. In fact they believe -- police believe this child might still be alive. I hope so. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWS RADIO: We know where this child was staying when it was in San Antonio with her mother. If there were any signs of any harm done to this child in any of these motel rooms, you know police would be charging murder on this. But they`re not. They`re say thing this is a missing person`s case. They still believe that they will find this missing child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, I think that is the best thing I have heard all week.

Here`s why I think it might be true. Usually when somebody kills somebody, they lie and they say I had nothing to do with it. They don`t call somebody up and say "Yes, I killed the child. The child turned blue, and I threw the child in the dumper the." It`s contrarian to human nature.

Is it possible that she said that to hurt her ex and the baby could still be alive?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I mean it`s clearly something that she`s just lashing out and just saying in a fit of craziness, I mean. And let`s not forget she was found incompetent two times previously by a court of law.

Also, let`s remember that there was somebody else that was convicted in this case, and that somebody that had and seen this baby within ten days after that first phone call. So we know that the baby was alive for the first ten days, because the defendant, Smith, testified that she, in fact, helped take care of the child along with the defendant.

So we know that the baby wasn`t killed right away and that woman was only sentenced to 30 days in jail. So clearly they thought the baby was still alive then.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s a very bizarre case, because there`s this other woman, Tammy Smith, involved. Elizabeth Johnson met Tammy Smith at an airport and Tammy saw the baby and thought I could take that baby and do a better job than Elizabeth. And then the relationship went sour.

Now before Tammy`s own trial -- she got tried for forgery and conspiracy and convicted -- she actually visited Elizabeth in jail and they began arguing about this so-called mystery couple that may or may not have gotten baby Gabriel.

You have to listen to this exchange. It`s fascinating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMMY SMITH: So when you called these people, you said on the third day you gave them the baby, so when you called them what did you say? Did you call them and say --

JOHNSON: I never called them. You called them. It was all set up through you. I did everything you told me to do.

SMITH: You are a liar. A liar.

JOHNSON: No, you are.

SMITH: Either that or you are psychotic.

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON: -- everything you`ve been saying and doing and throwing people under the bus. You`ve thrown me under the bus.

SMITH: Elizabeth, you belong under the bus. You gave your baby away and you`re telling --

JOHNSON: To you, to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, unbelievable. We have a constant theme here when we cover these cases -- liar. People who lie cannot be trusted. And people who lie, you can never tell when they`re telling the truth because you think they`re still lying. So they ruin their credibility. And that`s the case here. And it`s a cautionary tale.

More on the other side -- unbelievable developments.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And here`s your "Viral Video of the Day". We got this one from the Humane Society of the United States. A hero pig rescues a goat. Take a look at this. You know, pigs have a higher IQ than dogs. Look at this pig going out of his way to rescue that goat from the water. Pigs are highly intelligent, sensitive creatures and they deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: Gabriel is dead. I killed him this morning.

MCQUEARY: What?

JOHNSON: I killed him this morning.

MCQUEARY: No, you didn`t.

JOHNSON: Yes, I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable case where this woman, this beautiful woman, who is a mother of this gorgeous child, over and over again says that essentially she suffocated her child. She sent her ex chilling text messages saying you`ll never see Gabriel again, I made sure of that.

But here`s the interesting part, Jon Leiberman, investigative reporter. When she says, "You could spend the rest of your pathetic life wondering about him." And that dovetails with her telling cops a different story that she gave the child to a mystery couple.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: It does. But there are so many lies to go around here, Jane. And the sad part here among other things is that this baby was, as prosecutors say, just a pawn in this nasty relationship between these two. This woman now is looking at anywhere from nine months in jail to 20 years in jail.

There was landfill searches for this baby, there have been private investigations. When the reality is, that this mother knows more than she has been saying about where this precious baby is, and he needs to be found.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda, Ontario, your question or thought, Linda?

LINDA, ONTARIO (via telephone): Hi there. Well, my thought is that I`m not going to call her a mother, because I don`t think she deserves the title. I can only describe her as evil because if she killed the baby, well, that speaks for itself. But if she gave the baby away and is just tormenting the father, and the extended family, which surely this baby has, then that too is one of the most evil things that I can think of to do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Linda, I agree with you. And Wendy Walsh, psychologist, sometimes I don`t think we use the word "evil" enough. We use, you know, troubled or mentally ill. Evil exists.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there are people who have absolute lack of remorse, lack of compassion, lack of empathy and are stuck in their own world.

My question here though is, you know, when she says to him earlier -- we now know that the baby was not dead at the time that she said I killed the baby. She said, "You knew I could do it. And you still pushed me to do it anyway." This shows somebody who externalizes her behavior. She blames the outside world for her actions. She doesn`t take responsibility for actions.

Now, she also, in her text and her phone calls saying she killed the baby could have been rehearsing the idea in her mind. Remember, the baby was seen ten days after she said that and then not seen again. So we don`t know whether this baby is dead or alive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a woman who has it within herself to put on earrings and a sort of sexy purple top and blue eye shadow, when we`re talking about the possible death, the likely death perhaps of her precious baby, perhaps at her own hands. That says a lot right there.

I mean, the narcissism, I think the malignant narcissism of people who put themselves ahead of everyone else and then they pretend to be the victims and they tell themselves they are the victim, that the world is out to get them. It`s called the pity party. That`s what we call it when we talk about addiction issues.

And as a recovering alcoholic, I`ve learned that phrase. You know, the people who do the worst things often perceive of themselves as the victims.

So we`re going to take a break now. On the other side, we`ve got a crazy case -- a crazy, crazy case. Green Day meltdown -- we`ll tell you about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for our "Pet of the Day". Send us your pet pics, hlntv.com/jane. Cornelius, oh, you`re gorgeous, Cornelius. I love you. Bert and Nina -- very, very attractive couple. And Augie is just hanging out. He`s like, "I`m cool, I don`t need to prove myself. It`s all working for me." Saporro, you`ve got a lot of fashion, don`t you. Send us your pet pick.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC FROM GREEN DAY)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love that song. But oh, wow, lead singer of Green Day, seen in this "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" video from YouTube, getting treatment for substance abuse, just announced, days after an onstage meltdown at the iHeart Radio Festival.

You got to check this out. Check out the meltdown, see it for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLIE JOE ARMSTRONG, GREEN DAY LEAD VOCALIST: Look at that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) time right there. One minute. I`m not (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Justin Bieber, you mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Let me show you what one (EXPLETIVE DELETED) minute (EXPLETIVE DELETED) to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Okey-dokey, well you raised your point, I guess, Billie Joe Armstrong. He really lost his cool. It was hey, you got one minute left to wrap up your performance. You saw the cursing, the guitar smashing, insulting Justin Bieber -- what does he have to do with it.

It`s not typical bad boy rocker behavior, is it Wendy Walsh. His rep is now revealing to us that Armstrong is seeking treatment for substance abuse. What does this behavior tell you about his substance abuse problem?

WALSH: Well, I think if they`re making a statement that he has substance abuse problems, he undoubtedly does. He`s had a little history of some cancelled tours in Europe because of an undisclosed illness. So I don`t think this just started recently.

But you know, there`s also the publicity associated with it. Some people are saying this band has gotten a little bit lighter and not so punk anymore and now it has these corporate alliances so there`s a lot of publicity they can get out from a tantrum on stage. It may be both, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh, you are brilliant. In other words you`re suggesting that this is all orchestrated, as it were. And that the whole idea if him -- can we see it again? I would love to see it because I can`t see it enough. Can we just play it again?

My gosh, let`s take a look at this. I got to see it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARMSTRONG: Look at that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sign right there. One minute. I`m not (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Justin Bieber, you mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Let me show you what (EXPLETIVE DELETED) one minute (EXPLETIVE DELETED) means to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so I think it`s very possible, maybe. I have interviewed so many celebrities over the many years that I have been a journalist. And I have to tell you that my all-time favorite interview was Paul McCartney, he was such a gentleman, he was so humble. I was on cloud nine for days. But he was so charming and humble.

But presently somebody pulled the plug on Paul McCartney and another legend, Bruce Springsteen, you know what? They didn`t smash their guitars. They didn`t fly off the handle. They didn`t scream obscenities. They just basically said ok, they pulled the plug on us.

I find that the really, really, big stars are almost always -- in my experience anyway -- gracious. But this guy is a little bit lower on the food chain and Wendy, I think sometimes that`s when you really see the problems.

WALSH: Well yes. And it`s also a different genre of music. Remember this is not Paul McCartney singing about love and peace. This is a band that had made a lot of money being edgy and cool and rocker and punkish. And now there is criticism that they have gotten a little softer and pop with their new album. So who knows if this is part publicity, and part -- you know, a real substance abuse problem which is no laughing matter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I will say having interviewed so many of them, remember Live Aid, I don`t know if you remember -- our audience remembers Live Aid, I was right there. And I interviewed some of the biggest stars and some of the D listers. And I have to tell you the difference was just absolutely -- the bigger the star, oddly enough, the more gracious and humble. Isn`t that interesting.

More on the other side. I think we`re going to play it again. We have got to play that clip again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARMSTRONG: Look at that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sign right there, one minute. I`m not (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Justin Bieber, you mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Let me show you what one (EXPLETIVE DELETED) minute (EXPLETIVE DELETED) means to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That`s the now infamous meltdown courtesy of iHeart Radio and YouTube -- Green Day front man Billy Joe Armstrong.

I know Wendy has said, possibly that this was all orchestrated. But you know, I got to wonder, because they had to cancel very, very hot appearances, "Jimmy Kimmel Live", the "Ellen DeGeneres Show". That`s not anything that anybody wants to do. Who knows?

Let`s go out to the phones, Anna, Arizona, your question or your thought, Anna?

ANNA, ARIZONA (via telephone): Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

ANNA: I`d like to say that I`m almost 50. I`ve been to thousands of shows from Bruce Springsteen to Marilyn Manson. I don`t think they would orchestrate something like this because the thousands of dollars in revenue, from insurance, from loss of income to the families --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anna, you`re making a good point.

Here`s, Wendy, what I think. He obviously has a substance abuse problem. And I can tell you, as a recovering alcoholic rage and addiction go hand in hand. Oh, my gosh, I have signs all over my office. "Hit the pause button", people not to behave like. And it is, righteous indignation is something that they talk about with addicts and alcoholics; that that`s when we`re at our most dangerous when we think we`re right and we think that somebody is doing something that`s wrong.

It`s something I think a lot of people can relate to. And I don`t always hit the pause button, but I haven`t destroyed a guitar lately and I`m very happy for that.

Nancy next.

END