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Could Child Predator Be Involved in Charity Pulley Disappearance?

Aired October 3, 2012 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, the frantic search for a teen missing for more than two weeks in Texas. She mysteriously vanished from her bedroom. And tonight the question is, did she come in contact with a dangerous predator online? We`re investigating. And we`re going to talk to her desperate dad next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, an ominous turn in the desperate search for a beautiful 17-year-old girl. Texas cops say the screen window to Charity Pulley`s bedroom was removed from the outside the night this girl vanished. But have investigators uncovered a shocking and disturbing secret? Could a child predator be involved? We`ll talk to Charity`s frantic father tonight.

Plus, will Casey Anthony be forced back into court? This time in the Zanny the Nanny trial. Remember Zenaida Gonzalez? She says Casey must pay for ruining her life. But Casey`s lawyers say there`s no way Casey can get a fair trial in the very area where protesters chanted their outrage as she was found not guilty of murdering her daughter. Tonight, should Casey stand trial again in Orlando?

JEWELUS PULLEY, CHARITY`S FATHER: We`re all concerned. We`d like for her to come home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charity Pulley has been missing for more than a week. She was last seen here at her home with her adoptive parents and sibling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Went out the window here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They believe someone opened the window for Charity. Then she left and got in their car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone picked her up. The outside screen was screwed, too, where someone had to literally take a screwdriver and take screws out to take the screen off. So we know someone was outside.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, mystery grows in the desperate search for this beautiful missing teenage girl. Charity Pulley`s parents say their precious 17-year-old daughter went to bed Tuesday night, September 18, in their Texas home and everything seemed fine, but the next morning she was gone, vanished without a trace.

There was a major clue, however: her bedroom window was wide open. And the screen had been removed from the window. We`ve been told the only way to remove that screen is from the outside with a screwdriver.

This as we discover Charity may have secretly been going to see somebody she met online. Investigators tell KLTV that Charity had what you might call a secret life online. Multiple accounts on numerous dating sites under different names.

Now, her parents are left frantic and wondering if this beautiful and very petite teenager came face-to-face with a predator lurking online.


PULLEY: She was talking online or on the computer or on iPod with different guys and what not and with friends. So we don`t know if she was intending on just making a date and leaving with someone who picked her up. But I believe it turned into something more than that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We will talk exclusively with Charity`s father in just a moment. But first straight out to Joe Gomez, investigative reporter KRLD, Dallas, Texas. You`re all over this story. What have you learned tonight, Joe?

JOE GOMEZ, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, KRLD: Well, Jane, you know, this truly is a chilling case. You know, the last time 17-year-old Charity was seen, she was telling her parents she loved them before going to bed. But the next morning they went to go check on her, and she was gone. She had completely vanished.

Police believe somebody may have picked her up, because the screen to her window was taken off from the outside.

Now, furthermore, we also note Charity had several profiles on dating Web sites where she gave her age out as 18 years old. She`s actually 17. So it`s possible, Jane, that maybe one of these guys from the Internet, one of these unknown men, could have come in the middle of the night and scooped her up and took her away. She didn`t even take her cell phone, Jane. So police believe that Charity, wherever she is, could be in great danger.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, cops believe, as you just said, that Charity may be in very grave danger because of the bizarre aspect of the window screen being removed from the outside of the family home. And their theory is that she probably had help opening this particular window, because the screen needed to be unscrewed from the outside in order to take it off.

Here is law enforcement from our affiliate, KLTV.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone picked her up. The outside screen was screwed, too, where someone had to literally take a screwdriver and take screws out to take the screen off. So we know someone was outside.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to our exclusive guest, Jewelus Pulley, Charity`s father. Mr. Pulley, first of all, my heart goes out to you. I know that this is a nightmarish, surrealistic time for you, where it`s hard to believe what`s going on. We want to be helpful. We know that getting her face out there and discussing this could jog someone`s memory. Somebody may have seen here. Somebody may have seen her with someone.

So tell us about you were the last person who saw her. What was her spirit? What was she talking about? Did anything seem strange at all, sir?

PULLEY (via phone): She was doing real good. She came home from school with a progress report, which was real good. She ate dinner. And she was doing real good. And then she came in our room and talked with me and mom and just happy-go-lucky and talked about her and her friend at school, what they were going to wear to school the next day. And just, you know, happy-go-lucky until 9:30 when they -- it`s time for the kids to go to bed.

And she went into her room. And when I got up the next morning to get the kids up, I knocked on her door and she didn`t answer. And I got the boys up and knocked on her door again. She didn`t answer. So I opened the door and looked in, and she was gone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was her bed unmade?

PULLEY: Her bed was piled up, as well as stuff piled on the floor on either side of the bed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is that normal? Did it seem in disarray at all?

PULLEY: Usually she would make her bed up when she got up in the morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you noticed the window open?

PULLEY: The window was open. I did. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And when you saw that window open and saw that the screen had been unscrewed from the outside, what -- what ran through you? What is your theory of what happened there, sir?

PULLEY: Well, I really feel like that maybe, you know, somebody came up and maybe knocked on the door or knocked on the window, rather, and got her to the window. And then she had opened the window and maybe they had a screwdriver so the screen had to be taken off with a screwdriver.

And then maybe she was meeting them or something and then just it turned into something else and they just took her and told her to come on without any I.D. or without her glasses or without her driver`s license or anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she took her purse, but she left key things like her driver`s license, her cell phone, her glasses, her contacts.

PULLEY: Her driver`s license or anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All of that was left. Apparently the only thing she took was her iPod. We`re going to analyze all this in a moment.

But one last question for you, sir. In one of the news reports Charity`s mom talks about the possibility that the teenager may have met somebody on the Internet and went to meet them. The mom is quoted as saying, your wife, "She has done that before." What can you tell us about that, Mr. Pulley?

PULLEY: She had -- she had met someone before and -- with the iPod and had called and made arrangements and whatnot to meet someone. And then it was intercepted and stopped before it ever happened. Come to find out the man was saying he was 19; he was, like, 36.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, 36 years old the man -- the man was.

PULLEY: She had talked to a lot of different guys on either the iPod or something and texts a lot of guys. So we don`t know -- I mean, she didn`t say anything to her brothers or any of the friends, it don`t seem like, because nobody seems to know nothing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, sir.

PULLEY: Maybe somebody came up and she met them and then just decided, you know, once she got out the window, well, they just decided to take her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, sir. Our hearts are with you. We`re going to bring in a team of experts to try to analyze what you just told us in the effort to find your precious daughter. I know you are going through a terrible time right now. And we want to help.

Joey Jackson, criminal defense attorney, you`ve covered so many of these. Charity`s dad and the cops saying she was secretly on various dating sites. We don`t know which ones, but cops suspect a connection between that and her disappearance. You heard her mom say she`s done this before.

Investigators say they told KLTV she had numerous accounts on numerous dating sites under different names, and she did not reveal her age of 17. My gosh, this is a nightmare, because it could be anyone.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It really is a nightmare, Jane. But fortunately, because of what you do and putting it out there, hopefully it helps to solve this.

I don`t mean to speculate, but I think a reasonable view of the facts so far would suggest that perhaps she was online and she gave out a little bit too much information as to her whereabouts. Somebody came. It might have even been at that time, to her view, with good intentions, right? They went out. And as a result of that, you know what, don`t take anything with you. And then of course she goes, doesn`t get back. And that`s the way you can view it because she left everything, Jane, but her iPad. Bring her back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this person, if there is this person, is not a person of good intent, because it`s been more than two weeks. And this young lady has not contacted her parents to say that she is OK. And my understanding is there has been nothing on Facebook. In other words she isn`t saying "here I am" or "here I am." So we don`t know where she is.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to a sheriff, Polk County sheriff, who is an expert in pulling stings, online stings, on predators who go online and troll for young women, young girls. What is he suggesting that we do about this? And we`re taking your calls.



PULLEY: We`re all concerned. And we would like for her to, you know, come home. We want her to know that we love her and that we need her home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Seventeen-year-old Charity Pulley has been missing for two weeks from her Texas home. Went to sleep 9:30 at night on a school night. Next morning she`s gone, the window`s open, and she`s nowhere to be found. Charity`s iPod, the only thing her parents found missing from her bedroom. She left everything else behind.


PULLEY: She left her eyeglasses, she left her contacts, she left her driver`s license and her cell phone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we are learning tonight that, not only did she leave all these things at home, but apparently, as many teenagers do, she was on the Internet and, according to authorities, had multiple accounts on numerous dating sites under different names.

Again, she`s a teenager. She doesn`t know any better. But the adults that she was talking to, there may be a predator in their midst.

Sheriff Grady Judd, you`re the Polk County sheriff. Thank you for joining us. You`re also a child predator expert who has pulled off numerous successful stings, catching predators online, men trolling the Internet for young girls.

What should be done to figure out if anybody she had contact with on her computer is the person who went to her house and took her?

GRADY JUDD, POLK COUNTY SHERIFF: Jane, I picked up a lot of information as a result of what was just said that most of which I don`t want to discuss, because I don`t want to give other predators ideas.

But I can tell you a lot of things had to happen immediately. There had to be an immediate police response. They had to go to their friends immediately. They had to grab her -- her computers, her iPods, her iPads, and start a forensic analysis on them immediately. They had to engage other law-enforcement agencies, because what occurs these predators groom these kids.

And they groom the kids. And they specifically tell them what to do. "I`ll be there tonight between 12 and 12:30. Make sure that you have this. Pack your clothes. We`re going to live together. We`re going to leave. We`re going to have this beautiful life, and everything`s going to be fine." But it takes immediate work in order to try to find them.

We`ve worked several of these cases. In fact, we just recently worked one where a predator from our county hooked up with a girl from Minnesota that was 13. He told her that he was the vampire. And he was going to be the overlord of the world, and she was going to be the queen and that they would use humans for food. And that 13-year-old was prepared to meet him behind the school. And they coordinated all of that over the Internet by using Google Earth.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let`s go out to the phone lines, sir. Your information is very valuable. Stand by for a moment.

Leann, Arkansas, your thought or thought, Leann.

CALLER: Thank you for taking my call, Jane. I love Rico`s Rescues.


CALLER: My question is, a couple have been answered, but have they been checking the sex offenders within, I would say, a 50-mile radius? And they -- have they found any I.P. addresses that may lead them to somebody that has a history?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we are going to ask our investigative reporter on the scene, Joe Gomez, that on the other side of the break as we investigate what happened to this missing teen.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone picked her up. The outside screen was screwed too where someone had to literally take a screwdriver and take screws out to take the screen off. So we know someone was outside.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The missing 17-year-old, Charity Pulley -- you`re looking at her face there -- disappeared two weeks ago. She lived in Grand Saline, Texas. That`s where her family home is. It`s close to Dallas of all the big cities in Texas.

Now, Grand Saline, OK, this little town, that`s where Charity was last seen. We were just asked by a viewer whether the predators in the area have been interviewed. Joe Gomez, investigative reporter, are authorities also concentrating on another area called Mineral Wells?

GOMEZ: Well, that`s another report -- that`s another report that we`ve learned is that Mineral Wells is perhaps a place where she might have been seen. The reason for that is because there`s a large trucking presence out there in Mineral Wells.

Grand Saline, by the way, Jane, is between Dallas and Shreveport, Louisiana. This is a heavily trucked route, so there`s a lot of transit here. So not only should the search be focused necessarily just on Grand Saline, but also on all these surrounding cities.

Somebody could have picked her up in Grand Saline and taken her to Dallas, all the way out to Phoenix. I mean, we`ve got -- we`ve got major interstates that run through Dallas here, Jane. So really, I mean, little 17-year-old Charity could be anywhere.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, again, I will tell you from what I know that authorities almost always do check to see if all the registered sex offenders in the area from which a child disappears have been accounted for.

Sheriff Grady Judd, this is the problem. This abductor, hypothetical abductor, could have gone anywhere. Could have gone towards Louisiana or towards the West Coast. How do they get a handle on this? What about surveillance video on the freeways and the rest stops?

JUDD: Quite frankly one of the first things we do is we run to all the convenience stores. We run to all of the businesses that may be on the ingress and egress of the residence and try to grab the video from that time frame in an effort to get leads in the absence of other information. That`s very, very important.

Now, these folks travel across the country. The one I just mentioned was between Florida and Minnesota. We had another one between North Carolina and Florida. And Florida and Alabama. They travel all across the country to get to this special person that they`ve been talking with and grooming. And be sure, if this is a sexual predator, he groomed her and prepared her to leave with him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe Gomez, and Joey Jackson, criminal defense attorney, Joey, this is making me sick, because this -- we`ve just talked to this dad. And I think we all hope maybe, oh, this is something where she`ll come back.

But this shows you just how dangerous the Internet is for these young girls and these parents. You know, the teens are going to do what teens do. But the parents, my gosh, how do they stay on top of what their kids are doing on the Internet?

JACKSON: Jane, you know, it`s so true. And the sickness that you have in you, I mean, it`s horrible. And out there you just have to wonder how people can prey on and exploit these young children.

But, you know, I think -- the grooming thing I have an issue with, because it doesn`t seem to me that she was leaving voluntarily. When I discussed this before, I think her intentions were good in terms of leaving perhaps for a little while and coming back.


JACKSON: I think this person`s intentions with respect to going and getting her and bringing her out there and having -- harboring her and doing -- we don`t know what happened to her, and that`s the frustrating part. You would hope that she`s safe. You would hope that she`s sound. But given the facts and the evidence, I mean, it`s just very difficult at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you see this little girl, this 17-year-old anywhere -- at a convenience store, at a gas station, if you`ve seen her in a vehicle, in a truck -- immediately call law enforcement. Her family needs her back. We`re going to stay on top of it.

In tonight`s shocking video, heroes spring into action to rescue an 84-year-old woman who crashed her car into the harbor in Portland, Maine. Take a look at this. It`s extraordinary.

Witnesses say bystanders dove into the freezing water when they saw the woman trapped. As you can see, they were just able -- let`s see this. Just able to pull her out in the nick of time.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just let an obvious baby killer out of jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s wrong with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony`s attorney says there is no way she can get a fair trial if the defamation case against her is held in Orange County, Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This case that you`re suing Casey Anthony, it`s in Orange County, Florida, right?


ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, SUING CASEY ANTHONY: A lot of e-mails during this whole procedure. I got a lot of threatening e-mails. And they were mostly threatening my daughters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way that our jury pool is not going to already be aware of her criminal proceedings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s got away with it, and you know it. And people are saying that it was OK. She didn`t get away with this. I can`t even talk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They honestly just let her walk out and let everyone see it. I just thought it was unjust.

GONZALEZ: To me it was like, oh, my God, what am I going to do? You know, how am I going to tell you I didn`t do it?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, Casey Anthony`s newest drama. Will she be forced to return to an Orlando courtroom to defend herself in a civil trial? It`s the very same courthouse where Casey was found not guilty in the murder of her little girl, Caylee.

And boy, did I spend months there. It`s the very same courthouse that turned chaotic, all because of Casey`s murder trial. Can Orlando handle another Casey Anthony trial? You could say the city`s just in recovery now after four years of Casey drama. Remember this?


CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: I know we`re going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.

I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on. I don`t know what`s going on.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: What do you want me to tell Zanny?

CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee. I forgive her.

CINDY ANTHONY: What do you think the reasons are?

Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: You heard it. Casey blamed a woman she called "Zanny the Nanny" for Caylee`s disappearance. But it was all a lie. And now a real woman named Zenaida Gonzalez is suing her for defamation saying her life`s been ruined.

Zenaida was interviewed by police because of Casey`s statement and she says the media has forever linked her to this case.

Casey`s attorney wants the trial moved out of Orlando and Orange County. He says Casey will not get a fair trial because everybody has an opinion on this case. Zenaida`s attorney calls it nonsense.


MATT MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: It was the epicenter of everything that was Casey. So to think or believe that a resident of Orange County would not be aware of what was going on in the criminal trial is just not reasonable.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the fact is Casey`s murder trial is over. Zenaida Gonzalez was never actually linked to Caylee`s death because we all know that there was no "Zanny the Nanny". So why isn`t that enough? Why is she still suing? Here`s the answer Zenaida herself gave at her depo.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not the closure you needed, a national trial with the unprecedented publicity where others are blamed for the disappearance and death of Caylee Anthony. That`s not enough to give you the closure that you need?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey`s probation is now history. She`s free to do whatever she wants. The big question, will Casey once again be starring as the main attraction at the Orlando courthouse? Casey`s attorneys will be in court tomorrow to argue evidence of her murder trial should be withheld; in other words that the murder trial should not be entered into the civil trial.

But the big question tonight, can Casey Anthony get a fair trial in Orlando? We`re going to duke it out.

Attorneys Michelle Suskauer and Joey Jackson on either side of this issue. Ladies first -- Michelle, can Casey Anthony get a fair trial in Orlando? Or should the trial be moved?

MICHELLE SUSKAUER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The trial needs to be moved or a jury needs to be imported from another county, which is what happened in the criminal case. Jane, you were in the middle of it. I was there too. It was an absolute circus.

And I`m not saying that this case would necessarily be as crazy a circus. I don`t think it would. But the fact of the matter is that no one is going to be able to have an open mind and not have prejudged her.

And this is like an O.J. situation. You know, he was acquitted. And then he had this civil case. And, you know, people may have -- again, it`s a different situation, but hold it against him because they think he got away with murder. And that`s what`s going to happen here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Joey Jackson, that`s the argument to move the case. Oh, she got away with murder. Now we`re going to stick it to her in this civil case.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s an unfair fight. Michelle`s too good at this.

No look, here`s the point. The point is that anywhere you go it could potentially be problematic. Why? Because remember although it was local to that specific county, everyone around the country knows about this particular case. And furthermore, you can indeed get a fair trial there. Why? Because you know you can rehabilitate jurors.

Jane, what does it mean? It means you can say although you`ve heard about the case, you wouldn`t hold against her this other case, right? You`re going to decide the merits of this case, are you not? And therefore by voir diring juries adequately and appropriately you could empanel jurors and regular citizens who could give her, her day in court.

SUSKAUER: Not this particular person. This is very, very personal to Orange County. This is very personal to Orlando. This is a completely unusual situation. And just like the intro to this, this city is just starting to heal and to do this again.

I mean there is so much anger and hatred to this particular person. She is absolutely -- people just revile her. So to have it there it just makes no sense. And your argument about, well, everybody hates her everywhere and everyone`s --

JACKSON: They do.

SUSKAUER: Ok. Then why even have a trial? Just give her the money or give her the judgment and just throw your hands up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. First of all, what money?

Matt Morgan, you`re the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez who is suing Casey Anthony. My sources tell me she is not going to settle. This is going to go to trial. But what`s the point? We all know Casey Anthony has not been able to sell that big deal. Somebody called her radioactive. She can`t sell her story. She doesn`t have money. So what if you win? What are you going to get?

MORGAN (via telephone): Well, it`s good to hear from you, Jane. Ultimately at the end of the day Zenaida is looking for justice; and so justice in the form of holding Casey Anthony accountable. It was a big victory for Zenaida when we ultimately obtained service on Casey Anthony meaning that she has to come to our civil trial. Whether or not we can --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa -- wait a second. You`re telling me, because a lot of times in a civil trial the defendant doesn`t have to show up, you`re saying we`re going to see Casey Anthony going to court every day in this civil trial? Or just for some key moments like the verdict?

MORGAN: Well, her attorneys are likely going to attempt to keep her out of the courtroom for all moments of the trial other than her testimony when we call her to the stand. But we expect to see her in the courtroom. It would be our desire to keep her in the defendant`s chair throughout the entire course of the civil proceeding like every other defendant in a civil proceeding. Ultimately though her attorneys are going to file motions in order to keep her out and we`re going to fight those.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll have to see how that plays out.

Now, let me ask you this other big question. Here`s the other debating point that we`re going to debate with our panel. Should the murder trial for which she was acquitted although she was found guilty of four counts of lying be part of this civil case, this defamation suit against Casey Anthony?

Remember Casey`s parents -- Cindy and George? Who could forget? This has been a nightmare for them. Are they going to have to relive it again? Here`s Cindy in court listening to her phone call to 911 when she realized her precious granddaughter Caylee was missing. Remember this moment?


CINDY ANTHONY: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. What is the address that you`re calling from?


CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a three-year-old little girl.



CINDY ANTHONY: Oh, my God, the baby`s been stolen. I need to find her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter admitted that the baby is where?

CINDY ANTHONY: The baby sitter took her a month ago. My daughter`s been looking for. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today. But I can`t find my granddaughter.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break we are going to debate what is going to be discussed in court tomorrow and argued in court tomorrow. And namely is the murder trial going to become the centerpiece of the civil case against her? Are we going to have to relive this whole sordid ordeal, this tragic ordeal, over again? On the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: People say it`s too expensive, too complicated to eat healthy. Nonsense. I am here at a farmers market in midtown Manhattan, of all places. Take a look at the gorgeous veggies. We`re talking about a fifth generation farm from upstate New York. So this is locally grown, locally produced.

Now, if you want to find the farmers market in your area, just Google farmers markets USA and a whole directory will pop up. You put in your zip code. And look. All the farmers markets in your area will appear. Check it out.

Healthy mind, healthy body.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our viral video of the day. Check out this close encounter with a gentle giant of the sea, a whale shark. You know, we demonize creatures of the sea. We try to make sharks seem so terrifying. A bow captain says he was able to reach out and touch this 25-foot fish when the animal checked out his boat. They do have personalities.



CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down, baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk, then --

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen.

CASEY ANTHONY: -- give me three seconds to say something.

CINDY ANTHONY: Go sweetheart.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, tomorrow in court they`re also going to debate whether or not the murder trial where Casey Anthony was acquitted of murdering her daughter Caylee but found guilty of four counts of lying should be included in the civil case that Zenaida Gonzalez, "Zanny the Nanny", is filing against Casey Anthony.

Let`s go to our debate team, Michelle Suskauer, criminal defense attorney versus Joey Jackson. What say you, Michelle?

SUSKAUER: How is this relevant? That`s what I want to know. How is it relevant to prove defamation? What she did -- this is -- she was not convicted of a crime of dishonesty -- actually, she was convicted of something of the other charges. But she wasn`t convicted of murder. How is that relevant as to whether or not she defamed this woman?

The defamation, the allegations occurred prior to the trial. So certainly, you know, there`s going to be a tremendous argument to keep that out is that it`s more prejudicial than probative. It will hurt her more than it`s relevant to the case. And I think that`s what the big argument is. I don`t think it should come in.

JACKSON: Jane, your honor.


JACKSON: Listen, it`s coming in. It`s relevant and it`s probative. Here`s why. We`re talking about defamation. What is defamation? It`s injurious. It`s an injury to your reputation. How is my reputation damaged? Because you have an instance where she embroiled Zenaida Gonzalez into this horrific tale, to this horrific tragedy.

So you have to explain to the jury, you have to give them context and you have to say this is why I was defamed, because you have this major sensational trial in which I`m brought up as a critical centerpiece to it. So in order to give the jury some relevance, some context as to how she was defamed, as to how her character was impugned, you have to discuss to some degree the murder trial.


SUSKAUER: And then have the case -- and then have the trial in Orange County, right?

JACKSON: Absolutely. Have it right there. I believe in the jury system. I believe you can have fair jurors.

SUSKAUER: Yes, ok.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but listen. Let`s go back and recap and review. I mean the thing that was so bizarre about this trial, the crowds that came to the courthouse. It was like they were at some kind of rock concert. Remember this?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let him go. Let him go. Let him go.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, forget rock concert. That`s some kind of crazy rave.

This is a trial. And I`m wondering whether if indeed Matt Morgan, the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez, is successful with his attempt to get Casey Anthony to show up at court every day, if in fact we`re going to see this kind of craziness again. Matt Morgan, do you really think that`s a good idea? You`re the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez, but having a circus is not really going to help your case.

MORGAN: We don`t want to see any craziness. We want this trial to proceed in an orderly, calm fashion and just let the evidence come out. It`s not our intention to cause a riot to have the public kind of get real revved up about this. We just want to have our trial, present our case.

Remember Jane, we`ve been waiting to present this case since 2008. So we just want to get in there and state Zenaida`s case. And we believe that a jury`s going to return a favorable verdict.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you -- quick question, Matt, are you going to call Cindy and George to the stand?

MORGAN: Well, I can`t get into that. I really can`t get into what evidence --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. You can`t get into it. I respect that.

More on the other side. Your calls.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for our "Pet o` the Day". Blue, you are spectacular. As is Buddy and Buster -- what a team, a dream team. Elle is just elegant and regal. Oh, yes, she`s a regal beagle. And Peanut is a fabulous, fabulous furry friend. We love them all. Spike, too.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One time thought that when Casey came home, that she changed the version of events that you understood about Sawgrass Apartments --

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done. I`ve already answered the question. She`s not the one --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cindy Anthony -- she`s been through hell. She`s been grilled up, down and sideways. Will it happen again as Casey Anthony goes to trial again, this time in a defamation suit filed by "Zanny the Nanny", the real Zenaida Gonzalez, who said her life was ruined by Casey Anthony`s lies.

Straight out to the phone lines -- Ashley in Kentucky, you have been so patient. Your question or thought, Ashley?

ASHLEY, KENTUCKY (via telephone): Hi, Jane. I love you. Joey Jackson, I think you`re a genius. I agree with everything you said. The four counts of lying, the murder trial, it`s all relevant. Give the citizens of Orange County a chance to be fair and impartial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you made a good point. Matt Morgan, the reason why the murder trial in your opinion should come into play is that obviously the reason why "Zanny the Nanny" is a phrase we all know is because that was the lie that Casey Anthony told even though on the first day of her murder trial her attorney Jose Baez admitted that there was no "Zanny the Nanny"; that it was a total lie. And of course, he claimed the child drowned accidentally and sort of pointed the finger at George Anthony. Is that why you are saying that it`s relevant?

MORGAN: Exactly. We are not going to stand in court and offer to the jury evidence. We`re not going to say this was the evidence which was offered in the criminal case and so now you need to hear it in the civil case. But inevitably we`re going to have to get evidence in from the criminal trial to prove our case. We are not going to tell the jury what happened in the criminal trial. We are not going to say this piece of evidence was offered in the criminal trial.

But you`re 100 percent correct. There are certain pieces of evidence which we need to prove our case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, Casey murder trial must have cost the city of Orlando a fortune. Remember the extra security, the crowd control? Another reminder, check this out.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan Constantine, jury consultant joining us from Orlando. What`s the buzz there? I mean is there a sense that this is going to be a nightmare for Orlando if the trial is not moved?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, Jane. I hate to disappoint everyone. There really isn`t a whole lot of buzz going on here. So everything seems to be quite quiet.

I haven`t heard anyone, unless I`m at the courthouse and, you know, I`m there in trial, working. That`s the only time I hear about it. When I`m outside the courtroom, I never hear a word.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan, if they move this out of Orlando it`s going to cost a lot of money. You`re a jury consultant. I mean the witnesses, the experts, everybody, the lawyers have to move to another city and set up camp there. That`s hugely expensive.

CONSTANTINE: I don`t think that they`re going to move it. I don`t think that`s necessarily the best remedy either. You know, I understand that others think this is a personal issue. Yes, it is. But people are really over it. Not only that we really can`t afford it now. This has been a nationally publicized -- this is not just here in Orlando. It`s everywhere in the United States, the Internet, the television stations, the talk shows. It doesn`t matter, Jane, where it goes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: As they say, Marshall McLuhan, "We live in a global village," right? Ok. So somewhere, Casey Anthony is going to have to face "Zanny the Nanny". More next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: On my show we talk about secrets. And we`re going to reveal the secrets of nature. What a great story. A family found a badly injured crow on death`s door and they nursed him back to health. And he`s decided to adopt the family. Check this out.


ELISSA RENAUD, FAMILY ADOPTED CROW: As I walk the kids to school he trotted along behind us and I realized that, no, he thinks he`s part of us. He`s going to walk the kids to school, and take care of them and be part of the gang.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s right there at her head as she`s talking. The kids say, yes, he comes to the kitchen table. He has a little bit of chow there. He goes to school with them when they go bike riding he rides along with them.

I think this shows you how intelligent these crows are. How intelligent all of the animal kingdom is.

Listen to more of what the kids had to say.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We go on bike rides around and we talk together. And sometimes if I`m really sad I can tell him because he won`t tell anybody else or like secrets and have told him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he`s sort of like another child to our family.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So crows actually can distinguish different people by looking at their facial expressions. We have to really understand how intelligent animals are. Just because they can`t speak in a language that we can understand doesn`t mean they are not communicating, doesn`t mean that they don`t deserve the utmost respect. Walter the crow and that fantastic family -- way to go with the crow.

Nancy is next.