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The U.S. Jobless Report for September is Here; Obama Speaks in Virginia; Jobless Rate Falls; White House Welcomes Jobs Report; Conservatives Criticize Jobs Report

Aired October 05, 2012 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS POWELL, "EXTREME MAKEOVER WEIGHT LOSS EDITION": I can move into light joint mobility, simply moving my body back and forth, exploring my full range of motion, swinging my arms and my shoulders, perhaps rolling the hips.

And, once I'm there, now, I'm ready to move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: He made me ready to move.

I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining us today.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ashleigh Banfield.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Carol.

Hi, everybody. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Nice to have you with us. It's 11:00 right here on the East Coast and it is 8:00 on the West Coast, so you West Coaster and all you late sleepers on the East Coast, you are not, in fact, waking up in a time warp this morning, though you may wonder when your eyes fall on this, the U.S. jobless rate for September.

That's not a typo, folks, no way, no how. Seven-point-eight percent, .3 of a point lower than the number back in August and the lowest number since January '09, the month President Obama took office.

Actual jobs added, a bit less of a bombshell here, only 114,000. Most of them in health care, transportation, financial services. Manufacturing jobs actually took a hit last month, 16,000 of them gone in the manufacturing sector.

But why would I crunch these numbers when we have the expert in the business, Ali Velshi, joining me live?

Let's leave politics out of it for a second because you know we're going to go there. Let's just talk numbers, facts, sheer numbers and what they say about our economy today.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You actually put the perfect point on it. One-hundred-fourteen-thousand jobs created doesn't blow the lights out.

The unemployment rate dropped from 8.1 percent to 7.8 percent. It's interesting. I have long said, Ashleigh, don't pay attention to the unemployment rate. It measures a different thing every month, so it's not a consistent measure from month to month.

What we look at is how many jobs are created or lost and it's sentimental. If there are 114,000 jobs created, it may mean that wages are going up. You see that right on the right side of your screen.

But you can see, compared to the last four years, it's certainly better than it was four years ago, not as good as it was in certain parts of 2010, late 2011 and the beginning of this year.

So, this is nothing to crow about on either side, but it is right where we thought it would be. The surprise is the unemployment number.

I will tell you one other thing, Ashleigh. We always revise prior months, so July and August, we ended up gaining 86,000 more jobs than we thought we had.

BANFIELD: OK, I hear you every month when you give me the revisions and they're always a wee bit -- there's a bit of a change and I get it. Data comes in and things are revised. That's legitimate.

VELSHI: These ones are big.

BANFIELD: You think? Ninety-six-thousand to 142,000, how did we get such a revision? What was missed? Is this a mistake or is this just ...

VELSHI: No, you know what happened? We always -- so, the jobs report always comes on the first Friday after the last month, so this is September's job report.

If you let it come out two weeks later or three weeks later, your numbers would be more accurate because reports flow in and things like that. That's why we revise everything in economics, GDP, jobless claims.

That just happens and it just so happens that in the last few months it's been extra volatile. There's nothing at play there. There's no -- nothing nefarious. It just -- it has happened before in history.

BANFIELD: OK, so, let's talk about the unemployment rate. I've heard you go on the air before. In fact, I think it was only about an hour ago or so, saying, don't look at the unemployment rate if you're looking for the state of the union on the economy, necessarily.

VELSHI: Correct.

BANFIELD: However, I do want to ask you this. Oftentimes when the unemployment rate drops, it's not that great.

VELSHI: No.

BANFIELD: It's not great news because it means more people just stopped. They just stopped looking for work. They're chronic unemployed.

VELSHI: This is why I don't like looking at it because you assume that a higher unemployment rate is a bad thing and a lower unemployment rate is a good thing, but we've seen the unemployment rate drop, most recently, not today, but last month or the month before because fewer people were in the workforce. Fewer people were looking for jobs.

So, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Today's drop is actually a good thing, more people in the workforce, more people getting jobs, but it is such an unsteady, unreliable indicator.

BANFIELD: Then why do we use it? Why are we always talking about it on the stump?

VELSHI: It's very political.

BANFIELD: Why is it always, oh, you're never going to get elected above 8 percent.

VELSHI: You know, 10 years, I've been saying this to people. Stop using it. Start talking about whether or not -- it is absolute. If 114,000 jobs are created, those are really jobs that were created. Those are jobs created minus jobs lost. That's easy arithmetic that a second-grader can do. That's the problem.

The unemployment rate is just a little bit of a red herring. It's used as a political football. It's being used again as a political football today.

I find it much easier to understand the other numbers.

BANFIELD: Yeah, because I don't know if we have this graphic, I tried to make it up super, super fast.

VELSHI: Right. Making your own graphics now, Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: It's throwing my staff into total disarray, I'm going to be honest with you.

Here, it is. I'll just hold it up.

VELSHI: OK.

BANFIELD: Can you see it?

VELSHI: Yeah, that's great. That's very TV-friendly, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And it speaks to your point because I went back to -- because this is what I do when I have nothing else to do. I went back to 1936 when Roosevelt was re-elected. The jobless rate was 16.6 percent. VELSHI: Right.

BANFIELD: And then the next time he was re-elected, it was 14.6 percent.

VELSHI: Right.

BANFIELD: And he was re-elected.

VELSHI: Yeah.

BANFIELD: And then he brought it down to 8.2 percent, so he had a heck of a turn.

VELSHI: Right. So, it's just -- it's a number that jumps all over the place, hard to keep track of and the thing is it gives you the wrong indication. If it goes up, you think it's bad. If it goes down, you think it's good. And it's often not the case.

Jobs created or lost, any fool can tell you whether it's good or bad.

BANFIELD: Ali Velshi, thank you.

VELSHI: I'm your fool today.

BANFIELD: Hey, you're supposed to give props to the other Canadian. Come on. It's Canadian Thanksgiving.

VELSHI: No, I'm the fool. You're the smart one. You're asking good questions.

BANFIELD: Oh, thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to you.

VELSHI: Happy Canadian Thanksgiving to you, too.

BANFIELD: I'm going to see my brother, Giffer, in a moment.

All right, thank you very much, Ali Velshi.

As we just mentioned and Ali mentioned, 16,000 manufacturing jobs were lost. Not good. This sector has been mostly flat since April, so this is not good news and what has been done in the past four years to try to fix the manufacturing out-flux, all those jobs that have been going overseas, outsourcing. What are we doing to get them back?

There's a guy who knows a lot about this. His name is Hal Sirkin. He advised President Obama on just this, how to get jobs back into the United States, once they "am-scrayed."

He's a senior partner and managing director of The Boston Consulting Group and we've been lucky enough to grab him as he's traveling all over the world. He's in Brazil today.

Hal, I just want to ask you, off the bat, the true report card on the manufacturing jobs in the last four years, are these jobs that we just lost and we've been hemorrhaging in the four years. Are we ever going to get them back?

HAL SIRKIN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, THE BOSTON GROUP: Nice to be with you and your audience, Ashleigh.

We're starting to see changes in the economy. We've got to remember where we came from. In 2008, the economy was in total meltdown. There was concerns about a massive depression like 1929.

What the government did, both in the Bush era and the beginning of the Obama era, was to stabilize the economy to make it so it didn't go into freefall and, so, now, we're looking at a period of slow growth because we've deferred this problem.

However, without deferring the problem, we would have had a depression.

BANFIELD: You know, we heard a lot of arguing back and forth in the debate the other night. The president suggesting there are -- and this defies logic -- incentives to outsource. Governor Romney coming right back at him and saying, what are you talking about?

Let me just play that moment and I'm going to ask you something about it on the other side.

SIRKIN: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When it comes to our tax code, Governor Romney and I both agree our corporate tax rate is too high, so I want to lower it, particularly for manufacturing, taking it down to 25 percent.

But I also want to close those loopholes that are giving incentives for companies that are shipping jobs overseas. I want to provide tax breaks for companies that are investing here in the United States.

MITT ROMNEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You said you get a deduction for taking a plant overseas? Look, I've been in business for 25 years. I have no idea what you're talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, I don't either because I actually don't know the tax code that well.

Are there actually incentives, currently, Hal, that encourage people to take their jobs out of the United States?

SIRKIN: Well, both the president and Mitt Romney are both right the way they answered the question. The reality is we don't have a specific incentive to take jobs out of the U.S.

But what happens is, if you can move your taxable income to another jurisdiction that has a low tax rate, like China, you can pay less taxes in total so long as you don't repatriate the money back to the U.S.

So, the president is right that you get a benefit. Mitt Romney is right in the sense that there is nothing the tax code specifically that gives them a deduction for taking things out of the country.

BANFIELD: All right, so, is anything going on right now, either in the free market or in government incentives, to start turning the outsourcing trend into an in-sourcing trend, reversing that hemorrhage of jobs going overseas and start bringing them back?

What is the true story going on right now?

SIRKIN: Well, the most important thing is that companies recognize that the economics have shifted.

It was only in 2001 that companies started to outsource to China because wages were only 58 cents an hour. They've grown a lot and the U.S. has gotten more competitive, so the differential is now a lot smaller.

But what the government is doing, what the president has been doing is getting on the bully pulpit and making it clear to the country and the companies of the country that things have changed and they just shouldn't consider China as the default location for manufacturing.

BANFIELD: OK, I want to drill down specifically on the manufacturing job right now because, for those who don't know who are watching right now, manufacturing jobs are important because, A, they pay better than the typical job out there. They give better benefits and they provide a lot of economic security for the middle class.

So, when we talk about the numbers on the screen right now, the overall unemployment being 7.8 percent and the manufacturing jobs dipping down this month, 1,600 manufacturing jobs, talk to me about whether this election, Hal, is going to make any difference, a President Obama or a President Romney, when it comes to manufacturing jobs and the trend over the next, say, three to four years.

Hal, can you hear me? Can you give me that answer on whether that's going to make the different.

SIRKIN: Yes, I can. Yes, can you hear he?

BANFIELD: Yeah, I think we have a delay, delay, delay.

SIRKIN: Sure. Sorry.

I don't think there's going to be much of a difference in terms of manufacturing jobs regardless which person is elected president because what we're seeing is a fundamental economic shift. The economics are favoring the U.S. rather than China and companies will make economic decisions.

Now, the president and Congress, of course, can ...

(AUDIO BREAK) ... but I think both of them are wise enough to recognize the importance of manufacturing jobs and that they need to continue ...

(AUDIO BREAK)

BANFIELD: Oh, no. That's why we were having such problems. We're losing your signal altogether.

Hal Sirkin, I think I got the gist of what you're saying and I do -- if you can still hear me, I do appreciate your time on a busy schedule from Brazil to lay some insight out there for us on the jobs.

And we've got more on the jobs, particularly the politics of the numbers today, because optics could be everything. We'll have that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Good morning, again. Thirteen minutes past the hour, the September jobs report is out. It not only beat expectations, but the unemployment dropped to its lowest in almost four years now.

Let's see how this is affecting some markets. Alison Kosik is busy watching those numbers fluctuate on the New York Stock Exchange. So, what has it done?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK, so, yeah, I mean, you're looking at stocks. They're modestly higher. The Dow is up 60 points, Ashleigh.

Look, investors are not overly euphoric about this jobs reading, but clearly not having a negative reaction either.

You know, there's one analyst that I talked to this morning and he told me, you know what? Everybody seems to be focused on that drop in the unemployment rate, falling to 7.8 percent.

He says what they really should be doing is what Ali said earlier, is focusing on the look at job gains, that 114,000 number.

Look, the reality is it's not enough to keep up with the growing population, so you know what? If anything, the way that Wall Street sees it, this reading is sort of figuring into that Fed stimulus conversation.

Remember when the Fed announced it's buying up $40 billion in mortgage-backed securities every month for an unlimited period of time. Well, what that's done and continues to do is it's juicing these gains that you're seeing in stocks, you know, despite this disconnect.

You're seeing stocks go up while this economic data hasn't necessarily been all that terrific, consistently terrific.

You know, one economist says the way this job reading is being viewed is it's a win-win situation either way. It wasn't strong enough to pull the Fed stimulus, but the report is decent enough to satisfy investors for now.

Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: All right, Alison Kosik, thanks for that and thanks for keeping an eye on things for us, too.

And, later today, I want to remind you, as well, that the Fed is going to release some additional numbers today. These ones have to do with consumer credit.

And economists actually think that the borrowing rose by $7 billion in August and that would be compared to a drop of more than $3 billion in July.

Expectations are one thing. The numbers are another. We'll have them for when they come out.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So, more now on our top story of the day, maybe even the week if you don't count the debates, the latest on the jobs numbers that are out from the Labor Department.

The unemployment rate unexpectedly, quite unexpectedly, actually, falling to 7.8 last month and that is the first time that it's dropped below 8 percent since President Obama swore in and took office.

On top of that, employers added 14,000 jobs during September. The expectations were around 110,000 and, so, the numbers that were really lousy back in the summer were also revised upward, too. So, it's a bit of an icing-on-a-cake story.

The employers actually added 86,000 more jobs in July and in August than the department had initially estimated.

Before I go into more than that -- more on that -- I want to jump over to the president. He is live on the stump now in Fairfax, Virginia, at George Mason University. Clearly a friendly crowd, not only behind him, but in front.

Let's listen to what he has to say. Perhaps he'll talk about jobs.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

OBAMA: Thank you. Thank you so much! Thank you. Thank you.

Everybody have a seat. Have a seat. Thank you.

Well, it is good to be here. I am so proud to have Catherine's support. Can you give her a big round of applause for that great introduction.

It's also good to know that we've got the former governor and next United States Senator from the commonwealth of Virginia, Tim Kaine and your congressman, Gerry Connolly. It's good to see all of you.

So, one month, just one month from tomorrow, Virginia, you're going to step into a voting booth and you are going to have a very big choice to make. I know folks in this crowd may have already made some decisions.

But for the undecideds that are here, as well as those who are watching today -- you know, I've said this before -- this is a choice not just between two candidates or two parties, but a choice between two fundamentally different visions for America.

And, today, I believe that as a nation, we are moving forward again. We're moving forward.

Now, after losing about 800,000 jobs a month when I took office, our businesses have now added 5.2 million new jobs over the past two and a half years. This morning we found out that the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest level since I took office. More Americans entered the workforce, more people are getting jobs.

Now, every month reminds us that we've still got too many of our friends and neighbors who are looking for work and there are too many middle-class families that are still struggling to pay the bills.

They were struggling long before the crisis hit, but today's news certainly is not an excuse to try to talk down the economy to score a few political points. It's a reminder that this country has come to far to turn back now.

Because of your strength and resilience, the strength and resilience of the American people, we've made too much progress to return to the policies that led to the crisis in the first place.

I can't allow that to happen. I won't allow that to happen and that's why I'm running for a second term for president of the United States.

I have seen too much pain, seen too much struggle to let this country get hit with another round of top-down economics.

One of the main reasons we have this crisis is because big banks on Wall Street were allowed to make big bets with other people's money and, now, Governor Romney wants to roll back the rules we put in place to stop that behavior?

That's not going to happen. That is not going to happen.

One of the main reasons record surpluses under Bill Clinton were turned into record deficits under George Bush is because we put two wars and two tax cuts on a credit card and, now, Governor Romney wants another $5 trillion in tax cuts that he can't pay for?

Not if I have anything to say about it. That's not going to happen.

We are not going to let this country fall backward, not now, not with so much at stake. We've got to move forward. We need to invest in small business, and manufacturers who create jobs here in the United States. We need to recruit 100,000 math and science teachers, train 2 million workers at community college, bring down the cost of college tuition.

We need to cut our oil imports in half, create thousands more jobs in clean energy. We need to use the savings from ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to help pay down our deficit and put people back to work, doing some nation building right here at home.

That's the agenda we need. That's how you strengthen the middle class. That's how you keep moving forward. That is the choice in this election and that's why I'm running for a second term. That's what we need.

Now, my opponent, you know, has been trying to do a two-step and reposition and got an extreme makeover, but the bottom line is his underlying philosophy is the top-down economics that we've seen before.

He thinks that if we just spend another $5 trillion on tax cuts, that, yes, skew toward the wealthiest, if we get rid of more regulations on Wall Street, then our problems will be solved. Jobs and prosperity will rain down from the sky. The deficits will magically disappear. We will live happily ever after.

Even though he's been proposing this plan for months now, he's had a little trouble explaining how it would work without blowing a hole in the deficit or making middle-class families pick up the tab.

The other night he ruled out asking millionaires and billionaires to pay even a dime more in taxes. He said there's no way he could close the loophole that gives big oil companies billions each year in corporate welfare.

Ending tax breaks for corporations that move jobs overseas, he'd never heard of such a thing. Who knew? Who knew?

When he was asked what he'd actually do to cut spending and reduce the deficit, he -- his big example was to go after public television, so for all you moms and kids out there, don't worry. Somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird. Rounding him up. Elmo's got to watch out, too.

Governor Romney plans to let Wall Street run wild again, but he'll bring down the hammer on Sesame Street. It makes perfect sense.

Virginia, we can't afford to double-down on the same, old, top-down economic policies that caused this mess in the first place. We cannot afford another round of tax cuts for the wealthy. We can't afford to gut research and technology. We can't afford to roll back regulations on Wall Street banks or oil companies or insurance companies.

That is not a jobs plan. That is not a plan to grow our economy. It is sure not a plan to strengthen our middle class. We have been there. We have tried that. We're not going back. We're moving forward.

We have got a different view about how we create jobs and prosperity in this country. This country doesn't just succeed when just a few are doing well at the top. Succeeds when the middle class gets bigger. Our economy doesn't grow from the top down. It grows from the middle out.

We don't believe that anybody's entitled to success in this country, but we do believe in opportunity. We believe in a country where hard work pays off and responsibility is rewarded and everybody is getting a fair shot and everybody is doing their fair share and everybody is playing by the same rules.

That's the country we believe in. That's what we have been fighting for the last four years. That's what we are going to put in place in the next four years. If you re-elect me as president of the United States of America. That's what we're going to do.

(END LIVE FEED)

BANFIELD: And a very friendly crowd at the George Mason University campus in Fairfax, Virginia.

And you're hearing some of the typical stump speech, but not before only two minutes about into this stump speech, the president was able to say we've got the lowest unemployment numbers out this morning since I took office and then jumped right into the typical stump speech -- we've come too far now to turn back now.

So, not only that, but was able to yet re-invoke another reference to Big Bird, which is getting a lot of traction from the debate, that Governor Romney's prepared to let Wall Street run wild, but bring down the hammer on Sesame Street.

Maybe funny, maybe not, but everybody grabs everything they can when a nugget comes out and, when the nugget came out this morning about jobs, you can bet your bottom dollar that both parties are jumping in and jumping in deep.

Jessica Yellin, joining me live now from Washington, D.C. So, Jessica, you and I both know that the administration gets a look-see, an early peek, at the Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers before the rest of us get to see them. How much of a jump do they get and how much are they able to craft what they need to craft going forward to turn that message into a speech like we just saw?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the head of the Council of Economic Advisers typically is notified the night before they come out. It would have been last night, and can inform the president Thursday night about the jobs numbers. So, you know, that's the window there.

I would point out that, you know, this is one of those situations where it is important for the White House and the Obama campaign, and I think you heard it too, while show enthusiasm about the improvement, to be cautious, because it is an improvement, but this nation is still in economic pain. Many people are hurting. I think what they're trying to do and have to do is calibrate a careful tone where it is both excitement about the improvement, but also sensitivity to what a lot of people are going through. And that's why the president is trying to mesh this with his campaign slogan, which is, quote, "Forward." It didn't make a lot of sense when things didn't seem to be moving forward. Now they can argue, well, this is a sign that it is -- Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: They may argue that, but the critics are still out there. They got out there within minutes of the jobs numbers coming out, saying, not enough. And they make a point. we are still in a really tough spot here. 7.8 is nothing to be cheering about. I understand both sides of this argument. But you even have a not so well known conservative think tank coming out and suggesting that the administration is in cahoots with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So has a lot of critics to answer to.

YELLIN: Let me explain the data on that. This is after talking to "CNN Money" and the economists there. They explained the reason the number has dropped is not the 114,000 new jobs added, but from the surveys of households. I think it is 873,000 new households, new individuals and households got jobs or reported getting jobs last month, the greatest single month increase, according to "CNN Money," in nine years. And that is why that number has fallen to 7.8 percent in the last month. So, if that makes sense.

BANFIELD: It does. Look, it is a lot to get your head around, especially on the west coast, you're just waking up at this point. But I heard in that early part of the speech the president was addressing obviously the very friendly crowd, a lot of cheers. But to those among you who are still undecided, and that word rang very loud, because those undecideds are -- you know, typically jobs in the economy are issue number one with them. Is the president looking at this particular report, he may have said he's not going to capitalize on it for political gain, but is this -- this kind of thing he needs to take to the undecided camp and say, look, what more do you want?

YELLIN: Absolutely. And I think we're doing it for him. Everybody will run with this and try to parse it and dissect it. But it goes to the logic of what they have been trying to sell, which is the president has argued he came into office -- and this is just true -- in this time of enormous financial collapse and economic collapse. And then he will argue that he has put in place policies that have helped get the nation out of a hole. It is still digging -- we're still digging out of the hole. What he can now try to make the case to undecideds is that this is evidence that his path is working.

Now, Mitt Romney has put out a statement already, I would like to read you part of it, and he says, "This is not a real recovery looks like. We created fewer jobs in September than August, and fewer jobs in August than July." We checked those numbers. That is true. "If not for all the people who have simply dropped out of the labor force, the real unemployment rate would be closer to 11 percent."

So the Romney campaign will no doubt go on the offensive today and still say, look, it might be a slight improvement, it is not good enough.

BANFIELD: Yes. And they have been using the 8 percent on the stump as well, so they'll have to revise that part of the stump speech within the Romney camp.

YELLIN: That's an important marker.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: You nailed it.

Jessica Yellin, thank you. Appreciate that.

Want to remind our viewers, if you want to continue to watch live, hit us up at CNN.com/live for our live events.

And look at this, coming up, another great debate. The next one is between Vice President Joe Biden and Mitt Romney's running mate, Paul Ryan. And, of course, we have got you covered. Catch all the action next Thursday, Thursday night, here on CNN, as well as CNN.com. All the action gets under way 7:00 eastern time, live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Reaction from the White House to that all important jobs number. The report for September reads a lot like the White House reaction to the August jobs report, and the July jobs report and throw June's in there too. Quote, "Economy continuing to heal. More work remains to be done," et cetera, et cetera.

And the Republican reaction seems to be pretty similar too. Mitt Romney says this, and I quote, "This is not what a real recovery looks like." You heard Jessica Yellin report that live.

But there are recoveries, and there are recoveries. If you're a president looking in to recover from a lackluster debate performance -- Wednesday, I'm looking at you -- the jobless rate below 8 percent for the first time since you took office, that might look pretty good.

Wolf Blitzer joins me live from Washington to review the numbers through the peculiar lens of politics.

You heard the president say live, Wolf, we're not going to use this for political gain, but it has to help him undo some of the extraordinary damage happening Wednesday night. How does he use it without looking like he's using it in.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: Well, just imagine if the numbers would have been gone in the other direction. Instead of 8.1 percent unemployment, going down to 7.8 percent or whatever the number is. If you imagine if it would have gone up to 8.2 percent or 8.3 percent, that would have compounded the problems from his lackluster performance in the debate. And if 114,000 jobs, you know, could have been 6,000 jobs, that would have been disappointing.

The number that is significant in addition to what we just heard was the 80,000 additional jobs created in July and August. They've revised the numbers for July and August, so in addition to 114,000 jobs, you add another 80,000 jobs or so, you know, you're getting some jobs out there, which is good news. It shows that the country seems to be moving a little bit in the right direction as opposed to the wrong direction, which is what you want to see if you're seeking re- election.

BANFIELD: Just quickly, this jobless rate, I'll go over the graphics and the history. Still pretty high for an incumbent seeking re- election. We've said over and over, you just can't be above 8 percent. But look at these numbers. FDR won the election in '36 at 16.6 percent. Jimmy Carter lost the election at 7.5 percent. Ronald Reagan won at 7.2 percent. George Bush won at 5.4 percent. Maybe that 7.2 percent is the most interesting one because it is most proximate, the highest and proximate to this particular election. But are apple, apples and oranges, oranges? Is every decade, every era different, or no? It is the number. it is the economy, stupid.

BLITZER: It is more of the right track, wrong track. Do people feel that the country is moving in the right direction or the wrong direction? Do they see light at the end of the tunnel, or do they just see darkness and darkness. I think that is so much more important, especially as we get closer to the election.

Remember, there is one more jobs report out for the current month of October, on that Friday before November 6th. There will be one more jobs number that people will be able to digest.

Having said that, with so many states now allowing early voting and a big chunk of the country voting now, by then, so many people will have already voted, so we'll see if that is going to have much of an impact. It is a new phenomenon that we're seeing, this early voting by mail or whatever, and so it is a significant development. And we're not fully appreciating what the impact of that is going to be -- Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: I want to switch gears to goal. Mitt Romney is about to hold a live event in coal country. He's headed to Abingdon, Virginia. You were watching on Wednesday night as Mitt Romney declared himself a BFF to the coal industry. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: By the way, I like coal. I'll make sure we continue to burn clean coal. People in the coal industry feel like it is getting crushed by your policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That sounds as awesome if you're in the coal industry. Oh, wait, hold on. That was 2003. Our research department happened to find tape that may have suggested otherwise. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: There is no one in the commonwealth more committed to having jobs in the commonwealth. But I'll tell you one thing, I will not create jobs or hold jobs that kill people. And that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That plant behind you, he went on to say -- a coal plant behind him, and it was a real, you know, controversial thing. You know this story, Wolf. And some people said, look, this was just one plant he was talking about. But we went further. We actually found it wasn't just one dirty plant that Mitt Romney was worried about. The very same month, his office put out this press release that states, and I quote, "Coal and oil-fired plants" -- plural -- "contribute significantly more air pollution than their gas-fired counterparts, exacerbating acid rain and global warming."

This is what the Democrats would seize upon and say classic flip-flop, but does it matter when it you get to Virginia and you are campaigning and suggesting this government wants to make your life hell.

BLITZER: You speak to the Romney folks, the word they keep insisting isn't coal, it is the word that they used before that now. You heard Romney say, "Clean coal." That there is a newer, better way to deal -- to use coal for energy purposes, but to make sure it is clean coal and it is going to be less destructive to the environment or whatever. So that's the argument you'll hear from the Romney folks, from those who support that part of the energy industry.

I do think that as he gets closer and closer, and if you take a look at the thrust of what he was saying in the debate and the argument he's been flip-flopping, there's an etch-a-sketch moment, he's gone from appealing to the far right to appealing now to the Independents, and the center, and that certainly did come through. But it is by no means unusual. Republicans, in seeking the nomination, always run to the right. When they get it, they run to the center. Democrats often do exactly the same thing. Seeking the nomination, they run to the left. They get it and they move to the center. That's -- I've been covering politics for a long time. I'm not surprised by any of this. They want to get elected. They're politicians. That's what they do.

BANFIELD: I got to wrap it there. Smack out of time. That clean coal thing, there is a big conversation to be held there.

Wolf Blitzer, as always, my great thanks to you.

BLITZER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: And I want to invite you to tune into Wolf's program, "The Situation Room," every day, 4:00 p.m. eastern, only on CNN.

Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Jobs, jobs, jobs. New surprising numbers out from the Labor Department. And the headline is perhaps this, the jobless rate has fallen below 8 percent. For the first time since President Obama took office. Obviously this is good news for the president. But some say not so fast.

Christine Romans joins us in New York now with the details you need to know.

First off, lay out the facts. Just the facts, ma'am, not the spin.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK, the facts. There are two surveys the Labor Department takes, one of house holes, one of companies. The Household survey, they call people up and say, do you have a job, working full time, working part time? Those show -- that showed that 7.8 percent is the unemployment rate. The survey of employers showed that on balance 114,000 new jobs were created in the month.

Here's where the jobs were, OK. Health care, Ashleigh. I've seen this for, like, two or three years now, health care jobs every month continue to be added. Transportation, warehousing, 17,001 jobs. Manufacturing lost about 16,000 jobs. There has been some recent gains in manufacturing, but a little step back there for the month. So on balance, 7.8 percent unemployment rate, 114,000 jobs added in the month.

BANFIELD: I can see that manufacturing number will be seized upon because that is not good.

ROMANS: Sure.

BANFIELD: Manufacturing jobs are really important. We mentioned that earlier on.

So something else that may be seized upon -- I'm not sure how to -- what to make of this, perhaps you can lay some insight. I get it when spin comes out on jobs numbers. It happens in ratings too, trust me. But there is a spin that is particularly accusatory in how the government gets the numbers, how we compile the numbers. What is the true story on how the Bureau of Labor Statistics gets these jobless numbers and is there any nefarious activity afoot?

ROMANS: So there is spin and there is conspiracy theory. There are two different things, right? So you see spin in election year, but you see spin around the numbers constantly. There are a lot of numbers in two different surveys. So you will see people who are opponents of the president spin the numbers to say, look, look at 114,000, that is not enough jobs, and they're right. The White House agrees they're right. We all know jobs growth has not been robust enough. Then there is conspiracy theory. You had this limited- government group earlier today that issued a press conference release saying that there is -- that there are Baghdad Bobs -- their words -- in the Bureau of Labor Statistics, cooking the numbers to benefit --

(LAUGHTER)

-- to benefit the president. To which I say, Ashleigh, if they were doing that, where were they the day after the Democratic National Committee in Charlotte when the president spoke and all of the wind was taken out of his sails by a lackluster jobs report, or like the whole last three years when the labor market report that comes out every month shows things aren't really, you know, that hot.

So I can assure you -- and the labor secretary as well, she says it is actually insulting you have a-political career economists in the basement of the Labor Department basically working on these numbers, you know.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Five seconds left. Will there be legitimate conservative critics who will come in and say, oh, come on, come on, even the Democratic critics ripped President Obama's debate performance on Wednesday night. Will there be conservative critics who say, sometimes it is not a lump of coal, it is a sugar cube, and you have to call it what it is?

ROMANS: I think there is -- I think 114,000 jobs created, if you are a legitimate conservative critic, you can say that's not enough because it isn't enough.

BANFIELD: All right, OK, but it is not, you it's not -- you know, cahoots in the White House would be less, right?

ROMANS: No, it's entertaining, or exasperating. I can't decide what I feel about that right now.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: It keeps you busy.

(LAUGHTER)

As if this debate wouldn't be busy enough.

Christine Romans, thank you.

ROMANS: Right.

BANFIELD: Also something to consider, Ronald Reagan, running for re- election, unemployment rate was 7.5 percent; Bill Clinton, 5.1 percent; and George Bush, 5.4 percent in that September jobs report leading up to their re-election. Just something to think about as we go to break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What if I told you that some of the best tacos you'll find not just in Dallas, Texas, but the entire state of Texas are hidden in this gas station -- Fuel City.

(MUSIC)

LAVANDERA: You're not going to find this place in some fancy photo spread with the Dallas Chamber of Commerce. It's off the beaten path. You have to drive past a bunch of bail bonds stores and a couple of closed up strip joints, but it's worth the drive.

(MUSIC)

LAVANDERA: We're going take you inside where the magic is made.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four tickets.

LAVANDERA: Check it out. You have beef, chicken, pork. You have Barbacoa. Check out the grilled onions and peppers. Delicious.

(MUSIC)

LAVANDERA: Fuel city is kind of like Texas on steroids. Not many car washes where you can actually look at a real long horn, some donkeys. Car washes, windmills. It's kind of like Texas over the top really.

(MUSIC)

LAVANDERA: One of my favorite things about this place, it's open 24 hours. They got breakfast tacos. You can come here any time. It's just $1.40 for a taco.

All right. Now it's time for us to order. Ordering for everybody.

We have a feast ready for everybody to enjoy.

(MUSIC)

LAVANDERA: Hmm. Heaven. It's all good. Beautiful.

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gracias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I help you?

LAVANDERA: Now, after you have enjoy your tacos and you're full, take a moment and feel sorry for the poor animals that don't get to enjoy all this.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Got some live pictures for you right there in the Appalachian town of Abingdon, Virginia. You are looking at the site of Carter Machinery. And Mitt Romney is getting ready to speak live at an event. We're going to bring that to you live just as soon as it happens. It's coal country, folks, so there's going to be some excellent material to listen to, particularly with manufacturing numbers down.

This is the number everybody is really talking about today, 7.8 percent. That's the unemployment rate at the national level. If you move in closer to the battleground states -- keep in mind the state unemployment rates for September aren't even going to release for another two weeks, so these are the most current numbers. You're basically looking at states in red are above the national jobless rate. States in green are below the national rate.

One industry that's key to several of these swing states, especially in the Midwest and the long Rust Belt, is manufacturing.

Ted Rowlands is in Goshen, Indiana, and he is actually looking at the manufacturing story specifically today.

There was a slip in those manufacturing numbers. How is that going over where you are?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, we're seeing a much different story here in Elkhart County, Indiana. And this is an area that absolutely got hammered by the recession. Unemployment at its worst was up about 18.5 percent. Now, because so many manufacturing jobs have come back, it's down, hovering just over 8 percent.