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Nancy Grace
Body May Be Missing Colorado 10-Year-Old
Aired October 11, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Westminster, Colorado. 8:30 AM, this little girl, 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway walks three blocks en route to school. Mommy watches as she walks away from home. Jessica never seen again.
FBI, search dogs descend onto Jessica`s home and back yard, taking away bags of evidence. Another piece of the puzzle, a mystery man tries to lure children into his car with candy nearby. But that incident never publicized.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, a terrible find in the search for the missing girl. After Colorado authorities comb the region non-stop, an awful discovery made late last night, a body found. The remains are not intact. Body parts are missing.
While police are not formally identifying the victim or the body, our sources say it is a small body. And it has been hacked to pieces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a big development I want to let you know about in the case of a missing 10-year-old Colorado girl, Jessica Ridgeway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A grim discovery just a few miles from where 10-year- old Jessica Ridgeway went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A body was discovered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About eight miles away from where she lived.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very disturbing details.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the helicopter, you have footage of the body which would show the public that it`s not intact. (INAUDIBLE) the length of time it`s taking for the investigation to positively identify who that body is.
SARAH RIDGEWAY, MOTHER: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But authorities say they`re continuing their search for this missing girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searching everywhere that they possibly can, in waterways, canals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... actively engaged. The most eyes looking for this little girl all across America...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Statewide alert for a light blue station wagon with Colorado plates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police holding up on that identification process right now because the body was not intact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Westminster, Colorado. 8:30 AM, a little girl walks three blocks en route to school, mommy watching as she leaves, never seen again.
In the last hours, a terrible find in the search for missing Jessica, an awful discovery made last night. A body has been found. The body, the victim have not been identified by police formally, but our sources say it is a small body. And the body has been hacked into multiple pieces. We also know that pieces of the body, body parts, are missing from the scene.
We are live and taking your calls. Joining me there on the scene to take your calls, Nia Bender from TNN Denver. Nia, thank you for being with us. Describe the scene.
NIA BENDER, OPERATIONS MANAGER, TNN DENVER (via telephone): Well, right now, there is just a lot of police activity, a lot of police tape. I`m right near where they found the body, and a lot of work going on. And in about the last hour or so, we also got notification that about two miles north of here, near an area called Stanley Lake, they`re also searching for some other evidence. We can see the helicopters from here.
GRACE: Could you tell me about the discovery of the body, Nia Bender? With me is Nia Bender, there live on the scene. You are seeing aerial shots right now. And you can see from the adult men standing around the body that what they are covering up is small.
You are seeing video from KUSA, taking what was left of the body away. This is an open field. It`s really just a few miles away from Jessica and her mom`s home. You are seeing video that we are bringing to you.
Back to you, Nia Bender. I want to talk about how the body was found. And sources saying the body is small, hacked into pieces, no formal identification made as of tonight at this hour, meaning wondering were the fingertips of the body taken away, as well as, conceivably, the head so a formal ID cannot be made. That would preclude identification by fingerprints or dental records, forcing police to rely on DNA.
Which begs the question, where are the remaining body parts? Nia Bender, the discovery of the body -- what happened?
BENDER: Apparently, searchers found the body last evening. And it`s off, as you can see -- you know, this is very wide open. It`s an old coal mining area. It was found near a drain in a kind of a culvert. And they found it last night.
Of course, emergency equipment was out all night long. They lit up the area. Searchers were out last night. And all they would -- all Westminster would tell us is that the body was in very poor condition.
GRACE: Right now, the search is still going on. Many legal eagles and crime sleuths were wondering why the search was going on after a body has been found. They are combing literally between the grass blades, looking for evidence.
At this hour, that tiny body has still not been identified as 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway. But you have to wonder in a town a little over 100,000 population, who else could it be?
We are taking your calls live. Back to you, Nia Bender. Cops are refusing to identify this as being 10-year-old Jessica. Why?
BENDER: You know, they haven`t confirmed why. They said they needed to continue with their investigation. They`ve been very tight-lipped about every inch of this so far. And as I mentioned, just a little while ago, we found out that they`re now searching about four miles north of here for more evidence that they may have found.
GRACE: What is four miles north of there? What is there? Is there a trash dump? What is it?
BENDER: No, a very large lake called Stanley Lake.
GRACE: Oh, dear. I`m going to go right now to Arvada, Colorado. Joining me is Jeff Stauffer. He lives right beside the area where the remains were found. Mr. Stauffer, thank you for being with us.
JEFF STAUFFER, LIVES NEXT TO SITE (via telephone): You`re welcome.
GRACE: Sir, how close is your house to where this body has been found?
STAUFFER: I`d say actually -- well, maybe a quarter mile away, if that far. I live up on a hill, so I kind of look down on the area back up to the open space of the park there. So I kind of watched everything.
GRACE: Mr. Stauffer, what did you observe? That`s what I was going to ask you. What did you observe?
STAUFFER: I did -- well, just yesterday afternoon, I actually thought there was a traffic accident there, you know, not knowing what was going on. And then it just stayed there for hours and hours, and through the night, obviously.
And so just watched, but I had no idea what had happened until I actually heard it on the news, which I guess was about 7:30 that they actually made it to the news. And then actually, my wife told me. So I watched the news at 10:00 o`clock, and then just they showed all the shots there, which is pretty much (INAUDIBLE) see from my kitchen window. So then this morning...
GRACE: Mr. Stauffer, you said they stayed through the night? What do you mean by that?
STAUFFER: Well, I`m assuming there was police through the night because there was a bunch of lights lit up there. They had a big fire truck that had the boom, had lights on that, that was shining on the area where that culvert was that they`ve been showing on the news, where they found the body or the remains.
And it was pretty lit up most of the night that I remember. You know, obviously, I went to sleep. But they were still there in the morning, and then there was other news crews that were down around that area this morning when I got up.
So I watched the news again. And I was just kind of watching -- they had to be at least 50 officers, I believe, that were kind of walking the area, and of course, you know, helicopters and everything else there, all kinds of truck and FBI personnel that I could, you know, see from vests and stuff from my kitchen, so...
GRACE: What else can you see now?
STAUFFER: I am actually not home right now, so I can`t see anything right now. I`m not home right now. I`m on my cell phone, so...
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Mr. Stauffer. We have been told that this is an extremely safe area, that this park is used for recreation, for walking and so forth. Would you agree with that?
STAUFFER: Yes. It`s a very open area. Like, people will ride their horses there. (INAUDIBLE) friends that, you know, will run their dogs in that area. So yes, it`s always -- it always seems like it`s been a pretty safe area, yes.
GRACE: With me is Jeff Stauffer, taking your calls, as well. He lives next to where the body was found. At this hour, police still not identifying the body.
Out to Rhonda, Alabama. Hi, Rhonda. What`s your question? Excuse me. Jason. Hi, Jason. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing tonight?
GRACE: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s good. Thanks for taking my call. And we love you here in Canada.
GRACE: What is your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What led cops to the location of this body?
GRACE: Nia Bender, what did lead them there?
You know what? I`m not hearing Nia, joining me from TNN Denver. Let me go to Alexis Weed. Alexis, what led police there?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, police haven`t said yet what exactly led them there. But this location is about seven miles away from Jessica`s home and it`s about six miles from where her backpack was located.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing video of the scene where a body has been identified. Right now, police are not releasing that ID to us. We do know that it is a small body. It`s about eight miles away from the home 10- year-old Jessica shared with her mom.
We also know that the body was found near a big trash bag. Nothing in the trash bag. We also know that the body was hacked up. We also know that body parts are missing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a body. This is somebody`s loved one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sad discovery just a few miles from where she disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether this is Jessica or not, that remains to be seen.
RIDGEWAY: (INAUDIBLE) ever -- ever think I want ever -- any parent to go through!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body was not intact when they discovered it near an abandoned mine.
RIDGEWAY: And I never would have thought that I would have...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are live in Colorado, where late last night a body was discovered. Right now, police not releasing the information. But we firmly believe that they have ID`d this body. We know that the body was hacked up in many pieces and that body parts are actually missing.
We are live on the scene. Back to Nia Bender. Nia, you`re there on the scene. Explain to me what is going on at this hour, and what could they be looking for four miles north of this body?
BENDER: They very well could be looking for additional body parts. We don`t know at this point. They haven`t released any information on this. This is just a little north from where we are right now. And I think at this point, they`re still trying to gather as much evidence as possible.
GRACE: Nia, question. Do you know why police have not been able to ID the body?
BENDER: No. You know, they`ve been very tight-lipped, like I mentioned. They won`t release any of the details right now. And I would imagine they don`t want to do anything to release information until they`re certain of who they have.
GRACE: You know, the police are saying the body is not intact. What do we know about that? What does that mean?
BENDER: At this point, it sounds like the body was in poor shape. And what they told us is that it looked like it had been dismembered.
GRACE: Now, the body not being intact could be why they`re not able to make an ID. If fingerprints or teeth are missing, if they`ve been removed from the body, it`s going to make it virtually impossible to make an ID without DNA.
Now, again, Nia, how far is this from Jessica`s home, the one she shared with her mother?
BENDER: Seven miles from here, just seven miles east.
GRACE: And how far from where her backpack and water bottle were found? Let`s see a map, Liz.
BENDER: No problem. That`s about 11 miles, Nancy. It`s 11 miles from here, in the town of Superior.
GRACE: And Nia Bender, I`m hearing that before Jessica goes missing, an unidentified male was trying to lure children into his car with candy. But that incident was not widely publicized. What happened?
BENDER: Well, apparently, the boys had come out of school. There were two of them. And a gentleman approached them in a van and tried to lure them into the truck with the candy. The boys did the smart thing. They took off and immediately tried to run to a fire station. But the fire trucks had just been leaving to go somewhere. They ran to their school and notified authorities then.
GRACE: Those other luring incidents, where were they in relation to where her body`s found?
BENDER: Oh, probably about a mile, mile-and-a-half.
GRACE: With me right now, Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "How to Save Your Daughter`s Life." Pat Brown, this is clearly a secondary crime scene -- clearly a secondary crime scene. Weigh in.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Absolutely. This is a dumping place. And this is very useful to know. First of all, this shows me this is a local person, not some truck driver coming on through.
Secondly, a dumping ground is a place you know well because it was one thing to have an opportunity to grab a girl off the street or to do something to a child, but it`s another thing to have to go someplace and put their body there. You want to know it`s a safe place where nobody`s going to see you doing it.
So dumping grounds are very, very important. That person knew that location. Who around that area does know that location well?
GRACE: And what do you say about claims that the other incident just days before Jessica goes missing, you know, within 10 miles radius, where a man tried to lure children into his vehicle with candy?
BROWN: Yes, but he`s trying to lure boys, and I think that`s a big difference. Generally speaking, pedophiles tend to like girls or like boys. I`m not real impressed by that. I think there`s just possibly another creepy guy around.
GRACE: Now, another question regarding this. Out to Woodrow Tripp, former police commander. I`ll just let you weigh in, Woody. What do you make about the logistics here, how close everything is together?
WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER: Nancy, that`s very significant. And I totally agree with Pat. And certainly, she`s the expert on profiling. But you also have a person here that needed to dismember the body in order to get it into a bag, certainly for easier transport.
That also indicates that that`s someone who was really concerned about being seen taking this body out, being with this child. Certainly, the bag would offer that.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. What do you make of it, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, first of all, Nancy, my heart breaks for her family because they`re in the same limbo that everybody else is, but it`s so much more personal for them.
I am of the mind that, number one, the person who disposed of this did not necessarily know that area so well or the child -- or the body wouldn`t have been found as quickly as it was. Generally, you try to hide these things in places where they won`t be located.
But I suspect it probably is somebody on her route. I suspect it`s probably somebody either who lives there or who passes by there about the same time every day and knows that that little girl is walking, knows she`s alone and knows that she`s vulnerable.
So as I said yesterday on the show, Nancy, I think that this is a very preventable type of a crime. It`s just...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The big question still right now is, how were police led to that park where the body was found?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s about eight miles away from where she lived. It`s an open space. There`s abandoned coal mines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities haven`t said if there`s any connection to Jessica`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body was not intact.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still searching the area. Streets are closed around the park, still searching for Jessica in Westminster in waterways, canals...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, Florida Gulf Coast University.
Heather, I want to hear your take on the discovery of the body, the fact that it has been hacked up into pieces and there are body parts missing. What can we tell from the body? Why so long in the identification process?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, minus the skull, the head, and minus the teeth, that slows down the ability to do a dental ID right away. This little girl had a gap between her two front teeth. Dentists could have done an identification looking at her grin (ph) line. That would have been done quickly and efficiently.
On top of that, we could have done fingerprints if her hands were there. That type of data to construct a positive ID is very speedy right now with law enforcement. The problem is the DNA analysis. That is time-intensive, and it takes sometimes days and weeks to get those results back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a big development I want to let you know about in the case of a missing 10-year-old Colorado girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica Ridgeway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A grim discovery just a few miles from where 10-year- old Jessica Ridgeway went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A body was discovered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About eight miles away from where she lived.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very disturbing details.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the helicopter, you have footage of the body which would show the public it`s not intact, extending (ph) the length of time it`s taking for the investigation to positively identify who that body is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But authorities say they`re continuing their search for this missing girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searching everywhere they possibly can, in waterways, canals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actively engaged, the more eyes looking for this little girl all across America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Statewide alert for a light blue station wagon with Colorado plates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police holding up on that identification process right now because the body was not intact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to Nia Bender.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: All across America.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Statewide alert for a light blue station wagon with Colorado plates.
JESSICA RIDGEWAY, MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD: That`s my camera, see?
JEREMIAH BRYANT, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL: I just want to find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police holding up on that identification process right now because the body was not intact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Back out to Nia Bender.
Everyone, late last night a terrible discovery in the search for 10-year- old Jessica Ridgeway. A body has been found about eight miles from her home. Police refusing to identify the body publicly.
Nia Bender, joining me from TNN Denver. Nia, it`s my understanding that a trash bag was found very near the body?
BENDER: Yes. Reportedly they found a dark colored trash bag near the body. The contents of that trash bag, though, at this point, Nancy, unknown to any of us.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Odom, death penalty qualified prosecutor, Alex Sanchez, New York, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.
You know, Eleanor, we can learn a lot from that trash bag. Number one, I guarantee you, if you look at that field, you don`t see any trash in it.
Let`s see the same place, Liz.
You don`t see trash out in the field. Take a look at that. So this bag is going to be connected to the disposal of that body. Now think about it, Elle, why is there a bag? Was the bag used to transport the body? Was it left inadvertently?
You know, you don`t want to be hanging around in an open field when you`re disposing of a body. How many times do you think this guy has wondered, did I leave the trash bag there? Because we all know that you can get from a trash bag, it`s a very good surface to get, for instance, latent fingerprints. You can also get friction ridge impressions from that.
If the bag had been used to transport the body to that location, you know, it`s going to be even more full -- it`s going to be more full of valuable evidence. There`s a remote possibility if this body was in fact hacked up, the perpetrator`s DNA could be there as well if a knife was used.
And, Eleanor, think back to the -- for instance, the Wayne Williams case in your jurisdiction in Atlanta. The first case to ever use fiber as a link between the scene of the crime and the disposal area of the crime, where carpet fibers were found on the body from the perpetrator`s car and home. That could be in this bag.
This bag is very valuable, is it not? And I`m not even mentioning the fact that you can like a car get the make and model. When you use, for instance, a light box that is used when you examine a bag forensically, it is a light, you put the bag up and you can see striations, you can see relative changes in color. There`s ways to tell where this bag came from, Elle.
ELEANOR ODOM, FELONY PROSECUTOR, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED: Yes. You may -- you just brought out all the potential evidence that could be in that bag. And once they have a suspect, let`s say that suspect has a box of bags in their home, they could match it to that bag even from the tears of the bag. So that bag is going to be very important, Nancy, in this case to collect evidence both inside and outside the bag.
And remember, Nancy, there are only one person who knows about the bag. And that`s the killer of this child.
GRACE: And, Elle, when you say the tears in the bag, you`re talking about the roll of plastic trash bags when you --
E. ODOM: Exactly.
GRACE: -- tear it off, it can be matched back. And it can also be matched to a particular type of roll as to how it actually tears off. And, I mean, this is not rocket science, Elle. I mean, don`t you use a particular type of trash bag for whatever reason? It`s stronger, it`s springier, it`s got zip ties on it. You can tell what kind of bag it is. You can identify a store brand bag. This could very well get the killer on a video buying a bag for all I know, Eleanor.
E. ODOM: Oh, exactly, Nancy. That`s why this bag is so important. Because, again, only the killer knows where the bag was and what it was used for. And that`s why the cops aren`t saying a whole lot about this bag. Because they don`t want to, you know, leak any potential damaging evidence at this point.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Anita, West Virginia, hi, Anita. What`s your question, dear?
ANITA, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
ANITA: And your twins.
GRACE: Thank you.
ANITA: How far was the body found from the little girl`s home?
GRACE: It was about eight miles, Anita in West Virginia.
And, Peter Odom, Anita`s question is actually very significant. That`s why I was trying to get down in my own mind.
Let`s see the map again, please, Liz.
How far it was, this significant point.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. Well, that`s a very important fact. Very important fact, Nancy.
GRACE: Go ahead.
P. ODOM: It`s a very important fact that the -- that the caller brings up. This killer spent time with this body. Now you and Eleanor just discussed the fact that the longer the time that this killer spent with the body, the more likely there is to be DNA evidence from the killer on the body.
It might seem self-evident, but the fact that the body was found so far away from where she was last seen tells you that this killer spent, you know, some time in a car with the victim. And that tells you that there`s going to be a primary or perhaps even a tertiary crime scene that if the police can get it that, too, will be a rich source of evidence.
GRACE: OK. Explain. When you say tertiary, you`re talking about in the vehicle.
P. ODOM: A third crime scene.
GRACE: That`s one crime scene where there may have been a potential sexual assault on the girl.
P. ODOM: Exactly.
GRACE: The scene of the killing which is either the car or inside an apartment or home, and then the scene of the disposal of the body. That`s tertiary crime scene.
P. ODOM: Precisely. And the distance that was traveled tells you that there has to be a car involved.
GRACE: Yes. You`re right. And another issue, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom is exactly correct. And that makes me wonder, have police gone along these routes and grabbed every bit of security surveillance, road surveillance, if there is any?
I mean, at every red light I see there`s a camera looking down at me.
Weigh in, Alex?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: And Alex, interesting. You`ve handled a lot of murder cases. Why do you believe cops are refusing to ID the body yet?
SANCHEZ: You know, first of all, Nancy. This case is beyond criminal. I mean this is almost demonic in nature. And I think the police are being very careful about releasing any type of information until they`re absolutely certain. But I think the killer has left a ton of evidence. To commit a crime like this, there must be a bloody car, there must be a bloody basement, a bloody shed, a bloody house.
I don`t see how this killer can keep this under wraps for too long without somebody knowing or finding out about it. I think he`s from the community. I think he knew that girl. I think he lured her into that car. And I think he`s going to be found out soon. And all that evidence is going to be used to tie him to that crime.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Big development in the case of a missing 10-year- old Colorado girl.
J. RIDGEWAY: Do you want to be on camera?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A body was discovered.
SARAH RIDGEWAY, MOTHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL: I watch her walk out the door. And I shut the door. That`s the last time I saw her.
J. RIDGEWAY: My camera, see? Like this.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Westminster and Arvada are jointly working to process that crime scene.
BRYANT: The worst thing I`ve ever been through. I just want to find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: From the helicopter you have footage of the body which would show the public that it`s not intact. This is extending the length of time it`s taking for the investigation to positively identify who that body is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are waiting for a positive identification of a small body found as you see in an open area.
Let`s go to Nia Bender so we can see behind her. That body hacked. Let`s take her at full, please. That body hacked to pieces. There are body parts missing.
Nia, describe what`s behind you, please, for us?
BENDER: Absolutely. Obviously a lot of open space, trees, there`s a lot of outbuildings on this property, old shacks, things like this. This is an old coal mining area. Very -- the landscape is very hilly. So it`s one of those things where, you know, not that many people are going to see you if you`re out here.
GRACE: You know, Nia, when we were looking at the aerial shots of them removing the tiny body, it looks like a grassy park. But behind you I see construction equipment and piles of dirt. Where are you in relation to where the body has been found?
BENDER: Right near the body just a little ways away and a good portion of this terrain through here looks like this.
GRACE: Out to clinical psychologist, Ramani Durvasula. You know, Ramani, what does it mean to you that the killer disposed of the body in this manner?
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I mean he was done with it. I mean this is a very predatory person. And I`m guessing this is somebody who may have done something like this before and will do it again. So I think that this is a very dangerous person. And it really speaks to their dismissiveness and lack of conscience.
GRACE: Out to Heather Walsh-Haney. I want to talk about the type of dismemberment, the tool that may have been used and how that could help the investigation.
WALSH-HANEY: Nancy, those tools are going to leave a lot of evidence on those remains. First of all, the pathologist or the anthropologist that may be analyzing those remains are going to look at those cut marks. Right away looking at the cut marks on the neck vertebrae, on the arms, wrists, hips, feet, they`ll be able to tell whether a saw or a knife was used.
They`ll be able to figure out if it was a saw, if it was electric or gas powered. And then those sharp instruments leave fine lines on bone that can be matched to that that the perpetrator used. Thereby we could link the cut marks to the weapon, to the instrument that caused the dismemberment and then to the perpetrator.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, also on the story. Matt, what can you tell me about the local schools do -- locking the children in?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes, Nancy, the schools have been on lockout since yesterday. They actually are letting the children still attend school, but the parents that come and pick up their children need to show identification. They`re not letting the kids play outside at recess. They`re also searching around the school.
And one thing I wanted to point out since we`re talking about looking for more evidence, the cops are still canvassing the area including the area where Jessica disappeared as well as open space areas in and around Westminster, Colorado.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Alexis Weed, is that she took the same route every morning when she went to go meet her little friends, these -- I think it was either two or three other little girls she would meet.
WEED: Right.
GRACE: Just three blocks away. They would meet in a little park and all walk to school together every morning. And it was within those just three blocks that she went missing. It wasn`t an eight-mile stretch or a five- mile stretch to where the backpack was found. It was within three blocks. And I think that is very, very probative, Alexis Weed.
What more do we know, Alexis?
WEED: It is, Nancy. Just that three-block area, such a short distance. And usually she would meet up with friends. The friends, though, according to cops never ever saw Jessica that day. She didn`t even make it to her friends. She would typically then meet up with the friends and go about another mile to the school, Nancy. They would cross a field together. But the area where she was, where Jessica was, it was residential. And her mother even watched her walk out the door, the mom said at 8:30 when it would have been light out, Nancy. She watched her daughter walk out the door and start to walk down that block.
GRACE: Back to the neighbor, Jeff Stauffer. He lives right next door to where the body was found. Mr. Stauffer, joining us in Colorado again. Thank you for being with us.
Mr. Stauffer, are there red lights in the area that have traffic surveillance?
JEFF STAUFFER, LIVES NEXT TO AREA WHERE BODY WAS FOUND: Right in our area, no, I don`t believe there are. There`s not many traffic lights in our area. So I know there`s more coming around there. But hasn`t come up yet.
GRACE: I wonder -- let me go to Nia Bender on this. Joining me from TNN Denver.
BENDER: Sure.
GRACE: How about closer to where she lived with her mother. And isn`t it true, Nia, that there`s an office park within -- between her home and where she was to meet the little girls?
BENDER: Yes, that is correct. There is an office park and a couple of other businesses there, yes.
GRACE: Well, do we know what kind of businesses there are? And do we know if there`s surveillance cameras there? Because she would have had to walk past those surveillance cameras to get to Chelsea Park.
BENDER: I`m unsure of whether there were surveillance cameras. But I`ll bet you as good a job as Westminster has done, they`re going to know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. RIDGEWAY: You want to be on camera. That`s my camera, see? Get this. Right there, look. That`s the camera.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The body was discovered near the Pat Ridge Park open space.
S. RIDGEWAY: You get the pit in your stomach that you don`t want any parent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, out to Janet in Florida. Hi, Janet. What`s your question?
JANET, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I was just watching your show last night. I was wondering why you think the parents are innocent?
GRACE: You know what? A lot of times, with me, Janet, is subjective. I go through all of the evidence. I know that the mother was at work the night before. I know she works the graveyard shift. I know for a fact -- these are facts that I know -- that she always watches the girl leave. That they make the lunch together and she leaves.
That morning they peeled an orange together. I know she always meets those three little girls at that spot and I know the girl was alive the day before as of 4:00 p.m.
When I watch the mom`s demeanor, there`s just something about her, her wording. I believed her. And that combined with the facts that I know and I know the dad was out of state and vouched for, there`s no way that I believe the mother had anything to do with it.
And now that I know that the body was hacked up and there are body parts missing, she would never have done that to her daughter.
To Pat Brown, do you think the perpetrator is watching right now?
BROWN: Well, I think the perpetrator, if -- this abductor of this crime, absolutely is paying attention to what`s going on. Be sure that the police aren`t descending upon him. But I do want to talk about the body dismemberment. I haven`t really heard that the body was hacked. So at this point I don`t know that we don`t know that animals didn`t dismember the body. But if the body was hacked, though --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: It was absolutely hacked.
BROWN: Was it hacked?
GRACE: It was hacked.
BROWN: Well, if it was hacked --
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what do we know?
ZARRELL: On the ground that told our local reporters that they could clearly see that the body was small and also looked like it had been hacked into pieces. And we also know the police confirmed at the press conference that the body was not intact and that`s complicating their identification process.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: American hero Marine Private First Class Jason Estopinal, 21, Dallas, Georgia. Purple Heart. National Defense Service Medal. Loved running, soccer, paintball. Parents Claire, Jason. Brother, Parker.
Jason Estopinal, American hero.
Back 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The disappearance of Jessica Ridgeway.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Body found near some abandoned coal --
GRACE: Heather Walsh-Haney, humans dismember in a manner entirely different from animals.
WALSH-HANEY: Absolutely. Humans tend to take off the head leaving the jaw and cranium intact. They tend not to impact or injure the chest or the pelvis. Animals will take fingers and toes. Very different.
GRACE: Very, very different.
Eleanor Odom, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom, joining me out of Atlanta.
Alex Sanchez, a lot of focus has been on the mom. No way. It`s just -- I can just tell you I don`t need to see a polygraph. I know this mom is not involved, I just know it.
SANCHEZ: I`m with you on this one, Nancy. I looked at the mother`s demeanor, too. I looked at all her statements. I looked at all her background, all her activities that day. And there`s absolutely nothing there. There`s no indicia to indicate that she was involved in this at all. She looks like a perfectly nice, loving mother.
To believe that she had anything to do with this at this point I think is just completely outrageous. They need to focus on the criminal here.
GRACE: I agree. Peter Odom, in order to get to the real perpetrator, you got to get off the mom.
P. ODOM: Right. And, I mean, there`s nothing to indicate that she was involved. There`s no prior child abuse.
GRACE: No.
P. ODOM: There`s no chaotic home. There are no prior reports to the child services. None of the things that you normally see. So she`s been cleared. Let`s move on and look for the perpetrator.
GRACE: Eleanor, forensically speaking, we`re going to have at least three crime scenes. What do cops need to do right now?
E. ODOM: Well, Nancy, they need to examine one -- of course, each one very, very carefully. Collect everything even if it doesn`t seem important at the time. Take a lot of pictures. Take a lot of video. And also talk to anybody who lives near or has been around there.
GRACE: Woody, the kicker is -- Woodrow Tripp, former police commander -- is we don`t know where the other two crime scenes are yet. You`ve got the tertiary, you`ve got the disposal. But the kidnap is clearly in a vehicle. Got to get that vehicle. You could do that from surveillance video or from eyewitness. What else do we need right now, Woody?
TRIPP: Well, Nancy, there`s one alternative that I`d like to add. This little girl never made it to the park which indicates to me from previous investigations I`ve been in and what I`ve observed, she could have been abducted in one of the residences right there along the way.
Now she may have wound up in a vehicle after she died, but there`s a good possibility and there needs to be a heavy canvas in those residences that go from her mother`s house to where that park is at. She disappeared in between it.
She never made it to the park, Nancy. Think about that. She apparently was abducted between those two points. We have an area.
GRACE: You know, Woody, you`re right. All four of you are right.
Tip line 303-658-4336. "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night, friend.
(END)
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