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Who Won Vice Presidential Debate?; Space Shuttle's Final Move; Biden and Ryan Go At It; Software Reads Candidates' Emotions; Mariah's Challenge; Astronomers Find Diamond Planet

Aired October 12, 2012 - 15:00   ET


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go on this Friday, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney is off and running today with a new accusation against the White House. This is fallout from last night's VP debate.

Here is Romney speaking early this afternoon in Richmond, Virginia. You hear the crowd chanting Mitt.

Romney says vice President Biden got it very wrong last night, very, very wrong, in the back and forth about that question number one, Libya, and that deadly attack on our consulate on September 11.

Take a listen.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The vice president directly contradicted the sworn testimony of State Department officials. He's doubling down on denial.

And we need to understand exactly what happened, as opposed to just have people brush this aside. When the vice president of the United States directly contradicts the testimony, sworn testimony of State Department officials, American citizens have a right to know just what's going on.


BALDWIN: That was Mitt Romney.

Let's back track into last night's debate. We will hear from the vice president. We will hear him explaining the administration's evolving accounts of what happened in Benghazi September 11, the day terrorists killed U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens.

The vice president is saying that as new facts have become available, U.S. intelligence has changed what it is telling the Obama administration. Here he was.


JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As they learned more facts about exactly what happened, they changed their assessment. That's why there's also an investigation headed by Tom Pickering, a leading diplomat from the Reagan years, who is doing an investigation as to whether or not there are any lapses, what the lapses were, so that they will never happen again.

MARTHA RADDATZ, MODERATOR: And they wanted more security there.

BIDEN: Well, we weren't told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security.


BALDWIN: You hear that twice, the word we. Biden is saying we.

That may be the bone of contention here. We were not told that U.S. diplomats in Libya wanted more security before that fatal attack.

Romney, as we just heard, is saying Biden contradicted sworn testimony from State Department officials. But Romney didn't say which State Department officials and he didn't say specifically which testimony.

Here's what we can surmise. We can surmise he meant Lieutenant Colonel Andrew Wood and the State Department's Eric Nordstrom who led a security team in Libya. They testified just this past Wednesday that they asked the State Department for extra security, but were denied.

Today, the White House is saying that request never made it to the president, never made it to the vice president, nor should it have.

Here he was, Jay Carney.


JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No one who testified about this matter suggested that requests for additional security were made to the president or the White House.

So these are issues appropriately that are handled by security professionals at the State Department. That's what he was talking about.


BALDWIN: So, again, Romney is saying Biden contradicted sworn testimony. The White House says, no way.

John King live for us now in Washington, our chief national correspondent.

And, John, Mitt Romney, he is charging the vice president with contradicting sworn congressional testimony from this week. Should he have done a little more research before making a charge of such brevity or does that even matter?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Governor Romney's right, it appears.

Now, you could have an argument about whether the vice president knew or the president knew, which is what the White House is saying, but the State Department testified that it received requests. So the State Department officials testified they requested more security. The State Department now, Brooke, does not deny those requests were made.

The question is, where did it all get caught up in the bureaucracy? Were they rejected, were they just being waited to be acted on? So, this is a question about who is responsible more than anything else. Governor Romney sees an opening because what the vice president said in the debate last night was not exactly true, said we were not aware.

This is going to come down to a question of what is the president's job and the vice president's job? And I would put it to you this way. Here is what the Romney campaign is saying today, that if President Obama can run ads blaming Mitt Romney for things that happened at Bain Capital after he left being the CEO of Bain Capital, why won't the White House take responsibility for things that happened in the administration when President Obama is the CEO of the administration?

I covered the White House for 8.5 years. Horrible things like this happen. And the information does not always and especially not quickly make its way up the chain of command as high as the president or the vice president. But they're still the accountable CEOs of the American government.

BALDWIN: We will keep pushing forward on that and asking the questions as you point out. It is very much so a huge topic on the trail and as we saw question number one in the debate last night.

But to the debate, just to get a little flavor, I want to just play something, this is Vice President Joe Biden and Congressman Paul Ryan and as you know, you watched, it got pretty testy. Here is Biden saying the only way team Romney can pay for its 20 percent tax cut is to wipe out the deductions geared toward middle-class earners. Take a look.


BIDEN: The only way you can find $5 trillion in loopholes is cut the mortgage deduction for middle-class people, cut the health care deduction, middle-class people, take away their ability to get a tax break to send their kids to college. That's why they arrive at it.

RADDATZ: Is he wrong about that?

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is wrong about that. They're...

BIDEN: How's that?

RYAN: You can -- you can cut tax rates by 20 percent and still preserve these important preferences for middle-class taxpayers...

BIDEN: Not mathematically possible.

RYAN: It is mathematically possible. It's been done before. It's precisely what we're proposing.


BALDWIN: Generally speaking, did either side or both sides accomplish what they set out to do last night?

KING: Both sides did set out what they accomplished to do last night. The vice president came in first and foremost with the mission of reenergizing Democrats who got lethargic, who got disappointed, some who got worse than that after the president's rather lackluster performance in debate number one.

There is no question the vice president energized the liberal base of the party, they saw a guy who was fighting, fighting, fighting. Paul Ryan came in to keep the energy among conservatives. And there's no question he did that.

What was fascinating about that tax fairness part right there, Brooke that particular part you just played and then the parts before and after is when you're watching our focus group last night, that was Biden's highest moment and Paul Ryan's highest moment with undecided voters and yet they were arguing exactly the opposite thing.

BALDWIN: How about that?

KING: Why did the focus group love it? I think the focus group loved it, because you had two guys who were passionate about what they believe in, who were talking about substance and making their argument.

But if you're an undecided voter and you love Joe Biden saying we need to tax the rich more and you love Paul Ryan saying, no, we don't, I don't know how you make your decision.

BALDWIN: I was thinking, it's great for both bases, but maybe not great for undecided voters.

But we have two more debates to go, a lot more to watch and listen for. John King, I loved that debate. I thought it was fascinating. I wanted more of it. John King, thank you so much.

Speaking of the vice president, we're watching, we're waiting for him, live pictures here, La Crosse, Wisconsin. This is home turf for his opponent, Paul Ryan. This will be the first time we will hear from the vice president since that debate last night. We're keeping an eye on that. In the meantime, take a look at this.


BALDWIN: The emotions ran high from anger to sadness to humor. I will speak live with an expert who used facial recognition technology to track the candidates' expressions.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

RADDATZ: Please talk personally about this if you could.

BALDWIN (voice-over): How each man's response is scoring among divided Catholics.

RADDATZ: Plus, all right, ladies, not a space geek? You are about to be. A planet made of diamonds, twice the size of Earth, just discovered.

And speaking of space, the man who led Endeavour's final mission joins me as the shuttle makes its final move on Earth.



BALDWIN: Two lifelong Catholics, Joe Biden and Paul Ryan, got incredibly personal when they talked about their deep religious commitment last night. This is the second to last question and they both said being Catholic defines who they are. Biden and Ryan just don't agree at all as far as how to interpret Catholicism's role.

This is part of a growing divide among American Catholics.


RYAN: I don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do. My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, of how to make sure that people have a chance in life.

BIDEN: My religion defines who I am, and I have been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And has particularly informed my social doctrine. The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who -- who can't take care of themselves, people who need help.


BALDWIN: Let's take the controversial issue of abortion. Ryan and Biden's views could not be more different.


RYAN: Now I believe that life begins at conception.

That's why -- those are the reasons why I'm pro-life. Now I understand this is a difficult issue, and I respect people who don't agree with me on this, but the policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortions with the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother.

BIDEN: With regard to -- with regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the -- the congressman.


BALDWIN: Now, the push is on for the Catholic vote. According to this Pew forum on religion and public life, neither Obama nor Romney has a consistent lead among Catholic voters as a whole.

You see they're each polling at about 40 percent. Back in 2004, more than half of Catholic voters chose President Bush, even though his opponent, John Kerry, is Catholic.

In 2008, more than half of Catholic voters chose Obama. Flash forward to this year, both parties, Democrats and Republicans, had America's highest -profile Catholic, New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, give their closing prayer at their political convention.

And I want to bring in co-editor of's Belief blog, Eric Marrapodi.

Eric, you live this, you study this. Conservative Catholics, they would never vote for Obama and Biden because specifically of their views on abortion. More progressive Catholics question the morality of the Romney/Ryan budget choices. Which do you believe is the more predominant view among American Catholics?

ERIC MARRAPODI, CNN PRODUCER: I actually think it is pretty close to split dead even on this.

As I travel around the country and talk to people and report on this all over, we see a pretty even divide and I think the two gentlemen we saw on the stage, Vice President Biden and Congressman Ryan, are the perfect embodiment of each of those two sides.

You know, with Congressman Ryan, he's the kind of guy who might be out on the March for Life in Washington, coming down the road here in a few months in Washington where they're protesting against abortion. Vice President Biden, he's the kind of guy who might be on that bus tour with those nuns on the bus going to Congressman Ryan's office to protest his budget.

I think if we looked at the church as a whole here in America, it would be a lot closer to split on those two sides.

BALDWIN: So, if that's split, let's talk about this, the fact that critics say both Biden and Ryan, they tend to pick and choose, they favor parts of Catholicism and then they reject the parts they don't like, some say Biden isn't a strict Catholic when it comes to abortion and same-sex marriage.

On the flip side, you have critics saying Ryan isn't very strict when it comes to his views on poverty. What parts of Catholicism do you think -- in traveling the country, and talking to these people -- matters most to Catholics?

MARRAPODI: Well, I will give you the pejorative term here. It's cafeteria Catholics, where folks say they pick some of this and pick some of that.

What really is at the core of this is both Ryan and Biden are politicians and not priests. They're not necessarily beholden to all the teachings of the church. I talked to a cardinal about this not too long ago. And one of the things he told me was, as the pastors of the church, it is our job to stand up there and deliver from the pulpit and teach the teachings.

It is the congregant's job to kind of accept them and understand them. That doesn't mean they will get it right every time. When you're a politician, you have got these teachings that fall across party lines, that don't line up perfectly. That's exactly I think what we're seeing here, why people say the Republican is picking and choosing, he likes abortion, but he doesn't like the social teachings on caring for the poor, and vice versa.

I think that's what we see. And where Catholics say it is more important to them, I think, has a lot more to do with where they register with what party, Republican or Democrat. That's where I think it lines up.

BALDWIN: Cafeteria Catholics.

MARRAPODI: Again, that's a pejorative. You don't just throw that out there.


BALDWIN: No, I think that could apply to other groups as well.

Eric Marrapodi, thank you so much.

MARRAPODI: You got it.

BALDWIN: Folks, just a quick reminder, you can read all the stories on our Belief blog. That's

And now, after flying millions of miles in space, there she is, Endeavour on the move again. This is a tremendous event today and tomorrow, happening here. We will take you live to L.A. for the shuttle's final and much slower paced mission.


BALDWIN: The space shuttle Endeavour flew nearly 123 million miles in space, going more than 17,000 miles per hour.

And right now, it is not going anywhere at the moment, just hanging out in a parking lot, taking a little break before its slow journey meandering through the streets of Los Angeles. This is a parking lot. If you're in the neighborhood, you can check it out. This is the Westchester neighborhood of L.A.

Remember, the retired shuttle is headed for its final home, the California Science Center.

And we have you covered today because we have John Zarrella and Casey Wian, there they are, joining me from Los Angeles.

And, John Zarrella, let me begin with you. We took the shuttle landing live on the show whenever that was, a week or two ago, and just the crowd reaction to that piggyback ride was so huge. Now that it is sitting there, what are people saying?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Look, well you know, look at this. I went and I talked to some of the people in the crowd here, and really you kind of get just one-word answers like, wow, you know, this is unbelievable, wow, right? Right?


ZARRELLA: See? That's what kind of answers you get from the people when they see it here, because it is such a spectacular view when you have Endeavour there.

This was not supposed to be a "public staging' area here. They drove it about -- brought it, towed it about three miles this morning before rush hour, in the dark, from LAX, which is just three miles from here and over to this staging area, really just to park it while they did some things down the road, where they had to move some more power lines and get other things ready and reconfigure this area here where it is sitting right now.

They did all of that. And while they have been doing that, nine hours here, great opportunity for hundreds and hundreds of people to show up. You know, Brooke, we have been around these shuttles a long time, and I have covered them landing. I have covered them taking off.

I sat up there in, you know -- in the cockpit of Endeavour, but never would I have ever believed in my lifetime would I see a shuttle going down the streets of Los Angeles. So it has been a spectacular opportunity, you know, for all these folks here to get a real close-up look.

And from where they're standing, you can see, it is about as close as you can get to a space shuttle without either flying in one as an astronaut or working in one as a space shuttle worker.

BALDWIN: You see it in all its glory, marks and all.

I was talking to Mark Kelly, who commanded the last mission on Endeavour, and I asked him that same question. Did you ever think in a million years you would see this thing on the streets of L.A.? He said, you know, heck no.

John Zarrella, we thank you and we thank you for all your coverage of, of course, space. ZARRELLA: Sure.

BALDWIN: And , Casey Wian, you're somewhere in this crowd I know as well. I hear you have a little show and tell. There it is over your right shield shoulder. Look at that. Casey Wian, can you hear me?


I'm going to be walking alongside the space shuttle Endeavour as it makes its journey, the final 10 miles of its journey over the next two days. CNN has been granted unique access to get behind police lines and get this close to the space shuttle.

What I want to talk about is the platform that the shuttle is on. You can see that, and what -- people wonder why it has been sitting here for nine hours. These workers have been in the process of reconfiguring that platform. It was narrow when it left the Los Angeles International Airport.

They have now widened it out, so it can actually travel over the center dividers on the roadway for the next 10 miles or so of this journey. You can also see that the wheels that the shuttle is on, that this platform is on, each of those wheels can move around individually, sort of like a the wheels on a grocery cart.

And that means that this whole mechanism can go sideways, backwards and forwards. What is really interesting is this is all going to be controlled by one man who is operating a joystick. It is going to be like one of the coolest video games you have ever seen. He will be moving this thing upwards, down, back and forth to try to get over all these obstacles over the last 10 miles of this journey.

Some of these obstacles, they are only going to have a couple of inches to spare over the next couple of days. And the man who actually sort of put this whole engineering project together said he's been losing sleep every night worrying about the clearance that they're going to have getting by some of the intersections. And when it passed one of them, he will rest easy -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming to L.A. in a couple of weeks, and I was wishing it was today. Casey Wian, it's incredible. Casey and John Zarrella, we thank you, both.

Of course, stay with CNN. We will be traveling along with that space shuttle and hopefully you will be sending us your fabulous pictures from along that shuttle route.

Back to politics, though, and my next guest suggested before last night's debate the V.P. candidate should focus on speaking to a certain generation. He did make that pitch? Did it work? Political power couple Margaret Hoover and John Avlon are up next.


BALDWIN: Many of you have probably had some kind of discussion today about last night's testy, but incredible, couldn't turn your, you know, head away from that vice presidential debate.

So joining me now in New York, they're both there, side by side, my favorite political couple, Margaret Hoover and John Avlon, who I am sure perhaps over breakfast and lunch and in between have been, you know, going back and forth over this debate.

So, guys, welcome.

And I want to pick up with both of you where we left off yesterday.

Margaret Hoover, I just want to begin with you, because your whole thing was about how you wanted to see Paul Ryan, you know, make this generational pitch to the millennials, capitalize on what the Obama folks did in 2008. Did he do it? Was he successful?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: No, you know, Brooke, he didn't do it. He didn't read my piece. He didn't take it to heart.


HOOVER: But, wait, wait, listen, one of the things I really think that Paul Ryan has the ability to do, which I said yesterday, is speak aspirationally to the next generation, because he has a message that appeals directly to what will be their economic future.

And I had hoped he would do that last night. He didn't do it, although he did speak compellingly about debts and deficits and about the impending debt crisis. He did speak to that area, which is his strength.

But I think in terms of -- I think he was clearly trying to just hold his own against Joe Biden, one of the most experienced debaters and what I was joking earlier is probably the most esteemed debating society in the world, the U.S. Senate, a guy who had been there for 30 years. But he held his own, but he didn't go further, he didn't take it all the way home and really speak aspirationally to the folk and to the kids.

BALDWIN: John Avlon, let us into you two's, I don't know, first conversation out of the debate. What was the first thing you said to your wife?


BALDWIN: That you can share.



Look, we disagree on this one, not, I think, in the assessment, but Biden really outperformed. There's just no question. I thought Paul Ryan had an edge going into the debate for a lot of reasons. But Joe Biden showed why he's on the ticket, he rallied Democrats, he clearly learned the lessons of Barack Obama's mistakes in the first debate.

And instead he was smiling, he was intensely engaged, and every time there was a statement he thought was a falsehood, he pushed back. There were times he interrupted too much, no question.

But he made a case, he made it forcefully, and I think he made Paul Ryan look like what he is at the end of the day, which is the chairman of the Budget Committee, someone not with as much international experience or debating experience as Joe Biden had.

So Joe Biden brought it home last night and I think a lot of Democrats are feeling pretty good this morning.

BALDWIN: I don't know about you. I didn't think I would like that seated format. That, you know, tiny table. And I think that was really sort of conducive to that back and forth and to some of the --


BALDWIN: The back and forth, which was fantastic.

And so much of the debate was centered on foreign policy and a lot of talk about that. You know, question right of the bat was about Libya. And then later they talked Syria and Iran and Afghanistan. And, yes, that was very much so in Martha Raddatz's wheelhouse, the moderator. But you also talked about the age gap, John. Biden has certainly showed his chops when it came to foreign policy.

AVLON: He sure did. And that's always been considered one of Joe Biden's strong suits. And while it was clear that Paul Ryan was very tutored on the subject, he just didn't have the same chops. When Martha Raddatz -- who did a great job moderating, I have to say. When she pushed for specifics, when it was the question of -- don't just criticize the Obama administration for Syria, for Iran, for Afghanistan. Say what you would do differently in the future. He really had a tough time coming up with specifics. And I think that's been a failing throughout this campaign. There's been a lot of attack and distract. And so I think she really was able to puncture that in a way that was constructive. This was a very substantive debate. And to that extent, it was a great debate across the board.

BALDWIN: Margaret, I want you to look ahead with me because it's next week, the town hall, it's next Tuesday, Candy Crowley moderates, very excited about that.


BALDWIN: But it's a very different format. And because it will be the people in the audience, you know, asking the questions, you talk to a lot of pundits, they already are saying advantage Obama. So how does Romney win that one, Margaret?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, actually I don't think either candidate is really particularly -- I think President Obama's a bit better on the stump than Romney is. I think Romney's going to be able to engage his people. Look, he has been practicing and he knows all the stakes. If all the stakes were on the first debate, they are now entirely doubling down. This is the -- this debate is going to determine whether they're going to go into the finish strong or not. This is really I think even higher stakes for Romney now that he did so well in the first one.

So I think actually, you know, I think Romney and Obama are probably coming in pretty evenhanded in terms of their skill sets with being able to communicate one on one with the individuals who are in the hall and being able to be relatable, seem like they understand the issues and communicate policy issues that are complex in a simple way to ordinary folks.

I actually think they're coming in pretty even on this one, even though the momentum is behind Romney.

BALDWIN: Twenty seconds, Avalon. I hear you. Hmm. Is that translation, honey, I disagree? Twenty seconds.

AVLON: I do disagree. I think Obama is -- can feed off the crowds. He's a competitor. He know he's got to have a strong debate. But, more importantly, this debate is about domestic issues, noneconomic domestic issues. I think social issues are going to come up.


AVLON: And on those, I mean, you know, you saw in the abortion conversation last night, it was civil, it was substantive, but that clear contrast is a problem when it comes out to Republicans reaching out to women, for example.

BALDWIN: Hey, let's do this again Monday. Let's call it a date.

AVLON: Let's do it.

HOOVER: Sounds great.

BALDWIN: Margaret Hoover and John Avlon, thank you.

HOOVER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you all very, very much.

And we want to pull away from them because we're hearing now Joe Biden. This is the first time we'll be seeing him, hearing from him. Here's his wife, Jill Biden. This is Lacrosse, Wisconsin. Let me say it again. This is home turf for his opponent, Paul Ryan.

We're going to sneak a quick break in. As soon as we see Joe Biden, we'll take him live. Back in a flash.


BALDWIN: Lacrosse, Wisconsin. The vice president. I was just told the crowd booed as he started talking debate and mentioned the words "Paul Ryan." Let's listen.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Anyone who watched that debate, I don't think there's any doubt that Congressman Ryan and I, Governor Romney and the president, we have a fundamentally different vision for America and, quite frankly, a fundamentally different value set. And the fact is that the differences that we have about the future of this country are, quite frankly, profound. They're as profound as any difference in any presidential campaign that I've observed, that I've been involved in.

And the truth is that I think people were listening. And if they were, they know what some of those differences are and they know how those differences can fundamentally affect the direction of this country. One of those areas was in the area of Afghanistan. I made it absolutely clear on behalf of the president and I that we are leaving Afghanistan in 2014, period. There is no if, ands or buts.

We have trained -- we have trained over 315,000 Afghan military personnel. It's their responsibility to step up to their defense of their nation. We went for al Qaeda. We went for bin Laden. We accomplished that goal. And now -- and now it's time. And they are willing. It's time for them to stand up as we draw down.

Congressman Ryan, he made it very clear that Governor Romney has a very different view. Although he says he thinks we should get out in 2014, although he says that that makes sense, he says we should never have announced that. And I might add, had we not, the Afghans would never step up. We should never have announced that and when asked, do you guarantee you'll get out he said, it depends. No, I'm serious. You heard it. It depends on the situation on the ground. It depends.

Well, ladies, it depends on nothing other than the date as far as we're concerned. It's time for the Afghanis to take care of their own responsibility. But like -- but like almost everything, it depends. It depends on which day you asked them the question. It depends. It depends on the circumstances.

But it wasn't just on foreign policy it depends. It was also their attitude about what constitutes a fair tax code. What is a reasonable budget. Whether or not they're even cutting the budget. Now, Congressman Ryan is now saying even though he passed the Ryan budget, through the House of Representatives, it didn't become law, which drastically cuts the budget across the board 19 percent, eviscerating education and so many other things. He says, no, no, no, that's not a cut, it's just a smaller increase.

BALDWIN: Fresh off the debate last night. We now see the vice president, Lacrosse, Wisconsin. As I pointed out, you know, the -- who was hoping to be the vice president, Paul Ryan, from Janesville, Wisconsin. So essentially this is -- this is his opponent's home turf and the vice president a pretty gregarious guy and also known for his foreign policy chops. No surprise, he immediately brings up Afghanistan and going to battle here with his opponent.

Want to let you know you can keep watching. Keep watching us, but you can pop open your laptop. I do want to move on. We're going to stay on topic here on that debate because coming up next the question is, what's in a face? What's in a face? You're about to see this brand-new technology that reads the emotion, the facial expressions of the candidates regardless of what they may actually be saying. That's next.


BALDWIN: All right, let's talk about this election year. From the national conventions to the debates. And after each and every one of these events here, you know, a lot of you were talking about what it was that stole the show. For example, going to take you back to Clint Eastwood and the empty chair. Of course that was one moment. Then there was Mitt Romney who many say stole the show and won that first debate last week against President Obama. And on that same night, dare I say it, yep, Big Bird, Big Bird kind of did steal that show. But last night during the vice presidential debate, as much as these two men prepared for those 90 minutes, sometimes it wasn't what they said but how they looked when they weren't saying a word. And some of the smiles, some of the smirks, I know, had a lot of you talking and tweeting.


JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He just sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin? We sent millions of dollars.


BIDEN: Disavows it.

RYAN: This idea came from the Clinton commission to save Medicare chaired by Senator John Breaux . Here's the point, Martha --

BIDEN: Which was retracted.

RYAN: If we don't --


BALDWIN: My next guest is an expert in facial communication. He is Professor Chris Kowal. Joins me here from Purdue University in Indiana.

So, Chris, welcome.

And before we walk through and see sort of this cool technology and what you're doing to their faces, you know, I just want to ask you, why this matters, not just as much what they're saying, but how they appear?

PROF. CHRIS KOWAL, PURDUE UNIVERSITY: Well, I think, when you think about emotions, we -- emotions are extremely important and a lot of us are actually making our decisions for this elections based upon how we feel. And the best channel -- probably the most important channel for communicating emotions is actually through the face. And we do it very spontaneously and automatically.

BALDWIN: This is something I know, you told me earlier, you've been studying this for six years or so. So let's just begin. Let's -- walk me through some of these clips. We have these clips from the debate.


BALDWIN: First, we're going to see Ryan's -- we're going to see Ryan's facial expression responding to Biden talking about abortion.

KOWAL: Yes. And so what you're seeing is Joe Biden is talking about his belief that the government shouldn't -- that we should be accepting or more tolerant and that you shouldn't push one's religious views. And while he's saying this --

BALDWIN: OK, so what is this on Paul Ryan's face? What is that?

KOWAL: So what that -- what you're seeing are 491 different points on his face that are measuring different muscle movements. So the -- each muscle movement represents or actions --kind of a mathematical model, represents then the emotion that's being represented.

BALDWIN: So what's he expressing here?

KOWAL: So what he's expressing is a very personal disgust and fear and sadness when he hears Biden talking about abortion.

BALDWIN: And you can see all of this by all these different points on his face. Let's flip the script and talk about Biden. Biden -- this is Biden talking about Ryan's budget proposal. What expressions did you read there?

KOWAL: Well, a lot of -- a lot of anger, right? And if you watch even his hand language, I know that's outside of the facial expressions, but if you watch his hands move down and up, he's definitely very expressive, very intense in his emotions. He looks -- I think there is disgust and anger there on his face.

BALDWIN: Doing all this research, using this technology, do you think Americans, when they go to the polls on November 6th, do you think they really tend to vote for the more expressive candidate?

KOWAL: I think they vote for the candidate that they're going to be more emotionally connected to. And then they probably justify that decision through policy and other issues.

BALDWIN: All because of the points on a face and is it -- did anything jump out at you -- last question, did anything jump out at you expression-wise last night?

KOWAL: Well, I kind of call this debate the bulldog and the puppy because I think Joe Biden was extremely aggressive, at one point even with the moderator. And Ryan sat there with kind of a surprised facial expression. But, you know, he's -- he was very likable through it out. So my guess is, when we talk about emotional connections, maybe not a lot of independent voters were swayed, but it probably encouraged both of their bases and motivated.

BALDWIN: That's precisely what many a pundit has told me today. Chris Kowal, we appreciate it, from Purdue University in Indiana.

KOWAL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you very much.

KOWAL: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, we will talk with a CNN Hero on a lifesaving crusade.


BALDWIN: If you have ever heard anything about Butte, Montana, it's probably because it's the hometown of Evil Knievel. And it's also the home of one of our 2012 CNN Heroes. His name is Leo McCarthy and he took on Butte's hard drinking culture after his 14-year-old daughter was, Mariah, was killed by an underage drunk driver. And he did it with what he's calling Mariah's Challenge.


KIDS: I accept Mariah's Challenge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I promise not to drink until I'm 21.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I promise I will not get into a car with someone who's been drinking.

LEO MCCARTHY, CNN HERO: Butte, Montana, has an apathetic attitude to underage drinking. It's generational. I wanted to give teenagers encouragement not to drink.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Since 2008, Mariah's Challenge has awarded nearly $150,000 in college scholarships.


BALDWIN: And here he is. I want to bring in our CNN Hero, Leo McCarthy, joining me from Butte.

And, Leo, welcome. And there's so much -- there's so much I want to talk to you about, but I have to begin with your daughter. Can you take me back, just briefly, October 27, 2007. What happened?

LEO MCCARTHY, CNN HERO: Sure. Two of her friends were just walking on a designated pedestrian pathway about half a block away from my home and they were mowed over by an underage drunk driver who came back to the scene and did nothing for them and later drove off. Unfortunately, Mariah didn't make it, but the other two did. BALDWIN: I am so sorry about your daughter. But the way you've turned this around here, just some background for our viewers, and I know someone from Butte and she was explaining to me how, you know, this is a drinking town. This is a tough drinking town. A lot of people wear that as a badge of pride. A lot of folks there saw the inside of bars before they could walk. You know, drinking in middle school. How do you reach these kids?

MCCARTHY: Well, first of all, Butte is a very gracious town. It's a town of hard living. Has some great people here with deep hearts and deep souls. And, unfortunately, we have a portion of our history that is directed towards that type of heavy drinking.

What we tried to do through my daughter's eulogy is to maybe affect three of four of her friends that were in the funeral to -- just to put their faith in good, not in the bad, and look towards the future and always believe they're always greater than the situation. And if they go through high school without drinking, without doing drugs, without getting in the bad stuff and talking with their parents and giving back to the community, myself, my family, a lot of other people will be there to give them money for post education needs.

BALDWIN: Leo, let me brag on you for a moment. I don't know if you will, but I'll say that you have handed out nearly $150,000 in scholarships. And I just want our viewers to hear from one of these recipients. I want to play it. This is from a young man. His name is Josh.


JOSH: The challenge made me take a second look at my surroundings as a whole and see the things I never wanted to be. Gazing upon the community, all that can be seen is bars, casinos and families ruined by the bottom of a liquor bottle. When I took the challenge, I was not taking an oath not to drink and not to do drugs, I was making a commitment to myself and my family to succeed and do something great with my life.


BALDWIN: And this is just one story, I'm sure, of many. Being a CNN Hero, what does this mean to you?

MCCARTHY: It's overpowering. It's surreal. But it's a validation to those three girls who were left on that cold asphalt. It's a validation to this town as well for seeing that the image in the mirror needs to mature, needs to grow up in some ways, and we all need to start taking care of each other. And that's what it's all about. And it's about a tool called Mariah's Challenge to be used at the dinner table, because the only strongest most powerful place in the world is the dinner table. And that's what we can do and help parents to talk to their youth.

BALDWIN: Leo McCarthy, I hope what you're saying is resonating right now with parents watching and young ones. We thank you and we honor you, one of our CNN Heroes, this year. Leo McCarthy, thank you. And we'll be right back.


BALDWIN: In a galaxy far, far away there is a planet that could become a girl's best friend. Here's why. It's made of diamond. And, get this, the planet is twice the size of earth. But before you make space travel plans, you need to know this glittering planet is 40 light years away. Chad Myers, 240 trillion miles. But this is very important stuff. We needed you to look into it.


BALDWIN: Diamond?

MYERS: And it's 3,900 degrees on the surface. So landing there would be a little tricky.

BALDWIN: But, but, but --

MYERS: But it is unlike our solar system. They found a solar system 40 light years away that's really silica and carbon. We have a lot of oxygen, carbon dioxide, things like that. We are not that really -- I know you think there's a lot of carbon because we live it, eat it and we make charcoal and that kind of stuff. But this solar system is really made from carbon. And carbon, at a big pressure, will make diamonds. Now, our floor crew just said that you can make diamonds out of peanut butter.

BALDWIN: Yes, Van , we're doubting you.

MYERS: I'm really --

BALDWIN: I -- we're -- I'm dubious.

MYERS: I don't know where you got that, honestly.

BALDWIN: But, no, this isn't a newly discovered planet, but the fact that it's made of diamond, this is new.

MYERS: We think that it's made of diamond because of how it reflects, how it's reacting with our telescopes. It goes around their sun, that sun, in 18 days. So the year is only 18 days long. That's why it's so close. That's why it's so hot.

BALDWIN: Can we see it from here if we look up with the telescope?

MYERS: Not with the naked eye, no, you can't see it. You can see it with pictures. We just showed it to you. It's right there.

BALDWIN: I mean, I like sparkly things. If I want to look up and see it far, far away, not so much.

MYERS: I will buy you a diamond twice the size of the earth.

BALDWIN: No, no. Oh, shucks, I don't need that. Whatever. A girl does like a diamond here and there.

Chad, thank you very much. That's fascinating.

MYERS: Have a good weekend.

BALDWIN: You too. And you too as well. Now to Wolf Blitzer. Your "Situation Room" begins now.