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Nancy Grace
Las Vegas Firefighter Hires Homeless Man to Kill Wife
Aired October 17, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Vegas. A beautiful cocktail waitress and mother brutally murdered in her own home, and it seemed like a random crime. But in the last hours, prosecutors seek an indictment against her husband a Vegas city firefighter and West Point grad, saying he`s the mastermind behind the gruesome attack, saying he offers a homeless man $20,000 to beat his once beautiful bride to death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Las Vegas firefighter George Tiaffay. He called 911 to say he found Shauna dead in her apartment. Investigators knew something wasn`t right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the preliminary investigation, it was determined that the death is not natural.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Shauna was killed by multiple blunt force injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Tiaffay, charged with the murder of his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was the mastermind behind a gruesome attack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a feeling that it was him, just like a gut feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Noel Stevens, the man Metro Police say George hired to kill Shauna.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He conspired with Tiaffay and helped with the murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Offering this man homeless $20,000 to beat had his once beautiful bride to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two people that we believe the evidence will show conspired together to commit this murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the evidence speaks for itself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stevens was the second most frequent caller after Shauna, contacting him more than 80 times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was known for being controlling with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Friends only want justice for her and her young daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Vegas, a gorgeous cocktail waitress, a mother, brutally murdered in her own home. In fact, when the EMTs got there, they couldn`t tell if she had been beaten or shot in the head.
At first, everyone thought it was a random crime. But in the last hours, prosecutors seek an indictment against her husband, a handsome Vegas city firefighter, a West Point graduate. They say he`s the mastermind behind the gruesome attack, that he offered a homeless man $20,000 to beat his once beautiful bride to death.
But what do they really have connecting this firefighter, who had pledged his life to saving others, to the murder of his wife, the mother of their 8-year-old little girl?
Straight out to Paul Westcott, joining us, talk show host, WGIR. What do we know, Paul?
PAUL WESTCOTT, WGIR: Well, Nancy, it`s a very gruesome case, with the firefighter having a connection with a man named Noel Stevens. That connection, of course...
GRACE: Paul? Paul?
WESTCOTT: Yes?
GRACE: No offense, but to prosecute a murder one case against a West Point graduate -- a father of an 8-year-old little girl, a guy who`s dedicated his life to saving other people -- I need more than a connection. What do you have, Westcott? Hit me.
WESTCOTT: They have tools and they have videotape. The tools, of course...
GRACE: Tools.
WESTCOTT: ... were bought at a Wal-Mart just days before the crime. Those tools were found at Stevens`s camp site in the desert. They received...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! OK, Paul Westcott, of course, I don`t want to pick on you, but I need more than some tools found at the homeless guy`s camp site. Connect the dots for me, Paul. Do I have the husband`s fingerprints on those tools?
WESTCOTT: The husband`s fingerprints were not found on those tools, but he was seen buying the tools with Stevens on Wal-Mart surveillance cameras days just before the murder.
GRACE: OK, to Len Connell, KLAV, joining us out of Vegas. Len, thanks a lot for being with us.
LEN CONNELL, KLAV (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. Glad to be here.
GRACE: Len, I`m just playing devil`s advocate here. I know that the homeless guy had no real connection to the Vegas cocktail waitress. She`s a mother of 8 -- an 8-year-old little girl. I know that the homeless guy`s name is Noel Stevens, AKA Greyhound. Don`t know where that came from. I know he had...
CONNELL: That is an alias that he allegedly used between the two when -- when they were conspiring to do the crime.
GRACE: I know he had broken into her home before, that he had taken some of her clothing with him, which is kind of sexually creepy, that his DNA was on a vodka bottle in the home. But he left the home, did not attack her.
But I want to get back to proving the case against the husband. Now, Paul Westcott from WGIR says the husband, the firefighter, is a really good-looking guy, according to a lot of court watchers. I don`t think he`s good-looking because I think he may have killed his wife.
But just because he gives a ride to a homeless guy that used to be his handyman, to a Lowe`s, or a Wal-Mart, or wherever they were, and they`re caught on the videotape there and the other guy is buying a hammer -- explain to me your knowledge about this Len, how that`s going to tie back up.
CONNELL: Yes. Some additional evidence that came out was that this man may have allegedly done handyman work for Mr. Tiaffay. And then also, the cell phone records of Mr. Tiaffay showed over 86 telephone calls made between the two the month before and a call allegedly an hour before the crime took place. Also, I believe there was a pawn ticket where one of the rings, one of the wedding rings that was stolen during the crime -- Mr. Stevens had pawned it. So there`s a little bit more...
GRACE: Now, you keep saying "Mr. Stevens," Len...
CONNELL: ... might be a little bit more there.
GRACE: You keep saying "Mr. Stevens," and Mr. Stevens is Noel Stevens, who is the handyman guy that has now confessed to beating the cocktail waitress to death, the mother of an 8-year-old girl.
CONNELL: Sure. And he also bragged about the crime.
GRACE: She still had on her -- she still had on her cocktail waitress outfit.
As a matter of fact, out to you, Clark Goldband. And I`m searching here. I`m searching for what, if anything, is going to clinch this case against the firefighter. How do I know that this firefighter didn`t just give the handyman a ride to Lowe`s?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy...
GRACE: He is a handyman, after all. How do I know the handyman didn`t buy the hammer and the husband, the firefighter, was along for the ride? I mean, you`ve got to think this through before you seek an indictment. I know there`s a lot of phone calls, 86 phone calls back and forth between the two. But what does that really tell me, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, you mentioned the number 86, and you also said Lowe`s. Let`s talk about Lowe`s for a moment. According to reports, authorities are claiming that a copy of a key was made at Lowe`s by Mr. Tiaffay, the reports allege. And if that is to be believed, authorities also claiming, Nancy, there were no signs of forced entry inside the home when this mom was attacked.
GRACE: OK. Well, I have more information about the extra key that Mr. Tiaffay made, the firefighter. An extra key to the wife`s home was found in a spot frequented by the handyman.
So I mean, I guess I could infer to a jury, I could argue to a jury that the firefighter makes the key and gives it to the homeless guy. But how can I prove it? How can I prove it? You can`t just throw out speculation and get a conviction. That`s not how it works!
Joining me right now, special guest, the sister of Shauna Tiaffay, and the attorney for her firefighter husband, Robert Langford.
I want to first go to Paula-Stokes Richards. This is Shauna`s sister. Ms. Stokes-Richards, thank you for being with us.
PAULA STOKES-RICHARDS, VICTIM`S SISTER (via telephone): You`re welcome. Thanks so much for having me.
GRACE: Did your sister -- first of all, I want to hear about the 8- year-old little girl. Who is taking care of the daughter right now?
STOKES-RICHARDS: Maddie is with family right now. And we`re trying to maintain as much normalcy for her as possible, you know, in lieu of what`s been going on. But she`s, you know, safe and secure and doing well.
GRACE: Is Maddie with the mother or the father`s family?
STOKES-RICHARDS: She`s with the father`s family.
GRACE: Paula, was Maddie actually with her father when the firefighter father discovers your sister`s dead body?
STOKES-RICHARDS: From what I understand, yes, she was.
GRACE: Oh! Did she see her mother dead?
STOKES-RICHARDS: From what I understand, no.
GRACE: To Robert Langford, the attorney for the firefighter husband, George Tiaffay. What`s his defense, Mr. Langford?
ROBERT LANGFORD, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE TIAFFAY: His defense is this is outrageous! You know, I`m really angry that everybody who`s been on your show so far just recites what`s in that police report, the original police report, which is used to arrest somebody. It is just the highlights of the state`s case.
And if you look at it with any kind of a critical eye, Nancy, you`re going to see that it`s insane to think that a West Point graduate, a degree in engineering, a firefighter, somebody who has given back to this community so many times, is going to commit, A, a heinous act, and B, an incredibly stupid act.
GRACE: OK.
LANGFORD: There`s no way George Tiaffay did this.
GRACE: Robert? Robert, I agree with you on the character, the reputation of your client. But could you just tell me and put this to rest, why did your client call a homeless guy, who happened to have murdered your client`s wife, 86 times in the weeks leading up to her murder?
LANGFORD: Let me rephrase that question. Why did my client call his handyman 86 times in the month? Have you tried to call a handyman in Las Vegas? Have you tried to get hold of your handyman? I have. I`ve got a - - I`ve got three or four handymen, actually. It`s impossible to get these guys to come out to work for you. It`s difficult.
Not to mention the fact he wasn`t just the handyman, not to mention the fact that he had helped Shauna move into her apartment.
GRACE: Oh, let me tell you something, Robert Langford! You better have a lot of video of all those home improvements when you take this case to trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Tiaffay came in later and found his wife dead and bloody on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a feeling that it was him, just, like, a gut feeling, like, a friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Tiaffay was arrested more than a week after he called 911 to say he found Shauna dead in her apartment. Investigators knew something wasn`t right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live in Vegas and taking your calls.
Take a look at this gorgeous mom, a mom of an 8-year-old little girl who was along with her father, a well-known and well-liked Vegas city firefighter, a West Point grad, dedicating his life to saving others. He brings his 8-year-old girl back to Mom -- the two are separated at the time -- to find her bludgeoned body, bludgeoned so brutally, EMTs couldn`t tell if she had been shot or beaten to death about the head.
We are taking your calls. With me, two very special guests. To the rest of the panel, not that you`re not special. Robert Langford is with me, attorney out of Vegas, a renowned attorney in the Vegas area. He is representing firefighter George Tiaffay. And also with me, Shauna, the deceased mom -- she keeps being referred to as a cocktail waitress. She is so much more. She is beautiful. She was articulate. She was loving, and a very good mother to their 8-year-old little girl, their only child. With me, her sister.
Now, Mr. Langford, I threw you a curveball asking you why your client had called a homeless guy, former handyman, 86 times in the weeks leading up to Ms. Tiaffay`s murder, his wife`s murder. Now, you say he needed a handyman, that he needed work done in his home. You`re telling me that a firefighter needs a handyman? And if so, what was the job he couldn`t handle himself? I mean, it`s got to be spurting water or sparks for me to call a handyman. So why does your guy need a handyman?
LANGFORD: Well, you know, he was also trying to help Mr. Stevens, as were many of the people in his neighborhood. Mr. Tiaffay, my client, wasn`t the only person who engaged the services of Mr. Stevens to help around the house.
And also, Mr. Stevens (SIC), in addition to taking care of his mother, is a busy person. He volunteered. So timewise, he didn`t have a lot of time to just spending fixing up his house. So he hired Mr. Stevens.
GRACE: Well, what was he doing to his house? What was the job?
LANGFORD: I know they did some drywall work. They were doing some landscaping. He helped my client`s mother move into her home when she had to move. He helped...
GRACE: When was that...
LANGFORD: ... Shauna Tiaffay...
GRACE: When was that move?
LANGFORD: I know it`s been within the last year or so.
GRACE: So not in the weeks leading up to the murder. They weren`t still on the phone talking about him moving his mom`s furniture. He didn`t move her easy chair to the point that they had to talk about it for the following year.
So I`m just telling you, Mr. Langford, not that you need any trial advice -- you`ve been around the block a couple of times -- you better have hard evidence about all these home improvements.
Hold on. I`m hearing in my ear Shauna`s sister, Paula Stokes- Richards, wants to reply. Go ahead, Paula.
STOKES-RICHARDS: Well, first of all, Nancy, I just really appreciate you talking about my sister. She is very beautiful on the outside, but she was such a kind, caring mom and Maddie was her whole world. And there was nothing more than Shauna wanted to spend time with Maddie.
And I think it`s important to -- very important to know what the nature of their marriage was. And you know, the marriage was from day one very turbulent, and there was domestic abuse that occurred over the many years.
GRACE: What do you mean by that, "domestic abuse"?
STOKES-RICHARDS: Shauna told me many, many times of situations that occurred -- either verbally or physically, that occurred between -- you know, things that George had done or said. And you know, she was not walking around with a black eye and bruises, you know, but I think the verbal abuse was what upset her most.
And a lot of it went on in front of Maddie. And Shauna`s biggest concern was losing Maddie and fear that the things that were being said was going to influence Maddie`s love, or you know, opinion of Shauna as a mother.
GRACE: Tell me the living arrangement, Paula. Who did 8-year-old Maddie live with?
STOKES-RICHARDS: Shauna moved out. Shauna finally moved out of the marital residence in March. At the -- we advocated that, her family and friends, for a very long time. It was very difficult for her to finally make that decision and move out, to separate herself from George and this situation.
One of her biggest concerns about moving out was splitting up time between she and George with Maddie. And that`s what kept her there as long as she stayed at the marital residence. But she finally got the courage to make the move, to separate herself.
GRACE: So was Maddie going back and forth between them?
STOKES-RICHARDS: She was, yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Female found deceased in her apartment. Determined that the death is not natural.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The arrest of her estranged husband, Las Vegas firefighter George Tiaffay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police also arrested 37-year-old Noel Stevens. They believe he conspired with Tiaffay and helped with the murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "How to Save Your Daughter`s Life." Pat Brown, I see the connections that they`re making between the firefighter husband and the homeless guy that confesses he did the deed. But right now, I`m not hearing enough to nail that firefighter.
I mean, my head is telling me that the homeless guy has no motive to kill this woman at all. But of course, with murder, you don`t really need a motive. It just happens sometimes. So my question is, what is going to really link them other than those phone calls?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Yes, I agree with you, Nancy. This is the problem with this whole thing, that we have -- what we have here is a psychopath who clearly killed a woman and this man who hired the psychopath. So it`s hard to say whether the psychopath went off on his own or he did it for the man.
GRACE: Well, here`s the thing. Out to you, Clark Goldband. You`ve got the homeless guy on video with the firefighter, buying what we believe to be the murder weapon. The murder weapon has never been found. And the firefighter can easily say, Hey, I just gave him a ride.
GOLDBAND: It`s a hammer, Nancy. That`s what law enforcement is claiming in the police documents. And in fact, there were two visits to Wal-Mart, according to cops, the 13th and the 15th, both just days before this alleged murder took place.
GRACE: Clark, I know the murder weapon was a hammer, based on the curvature of the injuries in her head. I already know that. What I`m saying is, how do I link it back to the firefighter?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Las Vegas firefighter George Tiaffay. He called 911 to say he found Shauna dead in her apartment. Investigators knew something wasn`t right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the preliminary investigation, it was determined that the death is not natural.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did a beloved local firefighter, dedicated to saving the lives of others, a father, order a hit on his Vegas wife? He comes home with his 8-year-old daughter to find Mommy dead, bludgeoned to death. The brutal attack on her made it difficult for EMTs to determine whether she had been shot in the face or beaten in the face.
You know what? Clark Goldband, yes, I know the murder weapon is the hammer. We all know that. But here`s my question. Let`s martial the evidence that we know. Let`s take it from the top.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Sure.
GRACE: What do we know? I know the homeless man. He is dead in the water because cops go to where he hangs out and they find his blue jeans with her blood spatter on them, OK?
GOLDBAND: That`s right.
GRACE: We later find his DNA on a vodka bottle in her home.
GOLDBAND: That`s right.
GRACE: Where he had broken in before and taken some of her clothing. OK, that`s creepy. Also at another one of his hangouts, the homeless dude, we find the key that the firefighter husband, the duplicate key, had made to Shauna`s apartment. We know that.
We also have the homeless guy, Noel Stevens, cashing in her chips in Vegas. A lot of times waitresses are tipped with gambling chips. So we know the homeless guy, Noel Stevens, gets someone to go cash in those chips for him.
We also have the homeless guy pawning Shauna`s wedding band and ring. None of that connects back to the firefighter. So let`s martial the rest of the evidence. What do we have, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, you`ve got the phone call, the 86 phone calls law enforcement says that took place in the month preceding this. He allegedly called his wife about 93 -- his estranged wife 93 times, 86 phone calls to this handyman.
Also, Nancy, law enforcement in this very thorough arrest warrant details how exactly the arrest went down and, prior to the arrest, law enforcement says the husband allegedly drove into a concrete barrier at about 76 miles per hour. He ended up in the hospital. Law enforcement went to the hospital when he was going to be discharged. They told him he was under arrest. He replied, OK, asked if he could take a shower and brush his teeth. And also, Nancy --
GRACE: OK. Wait, wait. Hold it. Let`s go to the firefighter`s lawyer, Robert Langford. Wait, wait, wait. So when cops come to question your client`s family, he doesn`t rush over there immediately? Instead he tries to commit suicide? That`s not going to look good in front of a jury.
ROBERT LANGFORD, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE TIAFFAY, HUBBY ACCUSED OF KILLING WIFE: He didn`t try -- and that`s absolutely the silliest thing in the world that he --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. So he rams his car with him in it at nearly 80 miles an hour into a retainer wall. What was he trying to do?
LANGFORD: Let`s talk about that. OK?
GRACE: Brake got jammed?
LANGFORD: It was a massive diesel truck with the seatbelt gone. He`s going 76 miles per hour on a highway where everybody goes 75. So he wasn`t really doing much over the speed limit at all. He`s a firefighter, he`s been an EMT. He had to know -- if he was really trying to commit suicide, he had to know that there was a high degree of survivability in that crash.
GRACE: Why did he run into a retainer wall?
LANGFORD: That`s not -- he fell asleep. He hasn`t been able to sleep since her murder. He was on medication and he fell asleep.
GRACE: What medication?
LANGFORD: He was on Ambien. And this is -- this is the kind of thing that they put into the police report, that he attempted suicide. The only person who has said that is the detective in this case. Nobody else. It`s outrageous.
GRACE: Let me ask you a question. Robert, when he is pictured -- I mean, NASA could learn a thing or two from the Wal-Mart video. When he is pictured with the handyman, homeless guy who clearly committed the crime, blood spatters on his blue jeans, did he pay for the hammer? Did your client pay for the hammer?
LANGFORD: I`m not sure. I haven`t seen the video. Wouldn`t surprise me. I bet he did. I bought cement from my handyman about six months ago. Now if somebody is sunk by my handyman out at Lake Meade, am I responsible?
GRACE: Only if there`s a body in that cement.
We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, Atlanta, Dan Winslow, former judge joining me out of New York.
All right, Darryl Cohen, you have prosecuted and now you defend. Weigh in.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think it`s a joke. They have absolutely nothing.
GRACE: It`s not a joke.
COHEN: It is a joke. It`s a bad joke.
GRACE: You know what? Whoa, whoa. I don`t want to hear any sarcastic comments with the --
COHEN: Nancy, you know, with all due respect, this is true.
GRACE: Cut his mike.
COHEN: Nancy, it`s just the way it is.
GRACE: Cut it. I`m still hearing him.
COHEN: It`s a bad, bad joke.
GRACE: Still hearing. Yes. OK. No sarcasm with the victim`s sister joining us. You can save it for later. Now I`m going to go out on a limb, I`m going to go back to Cohen. All right, Darryl, go ahead.
COHEN: Nancy, he finds his wife, who`s been bludgeoned. So he called the handyman 86 times. So what? So he went to Lowe`s. The handyman has been in the house before. He consumed vodka in the house. There is nothing wrong. There`s nothing that ties our defendant with the murderer. And the murderer is looking desperately for a lifeline. He did it. Been paid 600. That`s it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Dan Winslow, Dan Winslow, please talk some sense into Cohen.
DAN WINSLOW, FORMER JUDGE: Well, it`s a circumstantial case but the cases prosecution is not quite over yet because there`s one open issue of evidence. And that is this. The handyman is possibly looking at the death penalty in Las Vegas and the prosecutors have to decide if they`re willing to have a conversation with him about whether he is going to turn state`s evidence.
GRACE: Well, what about this fact, Dan Winslow? Before the murder, apparently the handyman bragged to people that he had been hired to do a hit.
WINSLOW: That`s right.
GRACE: All right? Not only that, he promised him, according to the police, $20,000 but only came up with $600. If I`ve got a handyman, a homeless guy suddenly coming up with $600, if I can somehow trace that -- I doubt that you can. It`s not like Noel Stevens is banking down at Sun Trust.
So I don`t know that I`m going to be able to trace that money. But the circumstantial evidence in this case can be very powerful. And we`re all acting, we`re all pretending here like it`s normal to call your handyman 86 times? OK. That`s not normal. That`s not normal, Dan Winslow. You say, hey, go do the drywall next. You don`t talk about it 86 times on the phone.
WINSLOW: That`s right. And all of these pieces of evidence will be circumstantial evidence. And the question is, do they support an inference beyond a reasonable doubt? And that`s why I think the additional testimony of the handyman is going to be a critical piece for this case if the government is going to make its case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: George Tiaffay came in later and found his wife dead and bloody on the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the firefighter husband`s defense attorney. Robert Langford, out of Vegas, joining me.
So, Robert, let me get this straight. Your client, who was estranged from the victim, the mother of his 8-year-old little girl, just happens to call her killer 86 times in the weeks preceding the murder, just happens to make a spare key that ends up in the killer`s hands. Just happens to go with the killer to buy a hammer and he`s caught on video, and a hammer is the murder weapon.
And it just so happens that the killer bragged to others that he was going to do a hit. Do I have that right?
LANGFORD: Well, not entirely. First, let`s start with the estranged husband.
GRACE: And he just happens to fall asleep when cops come to question his family and run into a retainer wall going 76 miles an hour.
LANGFORD: How do you know that the -- that he knew that the police were coming to question his family? Let`s talk --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m asking you the questions, sir. Let`s hear your answer.
LANGFORD: You did ask me the question. You asked me about the estranged husband. They weren`t estranged, Nancy.
GRACE: Oh, were they living together?
LANGFORD: In fact 30 days -- three days prior to the murder, they had agreed --
GRACE: I`m taking that as a no.
LANGFORD: The two of them -- they were not living together. They were going to therapy.
GRACE: Well then they`re estranged. Next.
LANGFORD: Next, they weren`t estranged. They were getting back together, they were reconciling. That`s a matter of court record. They were in therapy and they were going to do it right. They were going to move back in together under the correct circumstances.
Next, the 86 calls --
GRACE: And that correct circumstance would be she would alive and not bludgeoned to death on the floor, with her bra strung up around her neck.
LANGFORD: The -- I`m sorry?
GRACE: That would be the correct circumstance.
LANGFORD: I haven`t seen the photos. I can`t --
(CROSSTALK)
LANGFORD: I can`t comment on that. I haven`t seen that evidence. That hasn`t been provided to us yet. The 86 calls, I`m sure that`s going to be easily explained away. And again, if you`ve ever tried to get hold of the handyman in Las Vegas --
GRACE: Yes, I have.
LANGFORD: Everybody knows it`s -- you have, really?
GRACE: I`ve tried to get ahold of a handyman, not in Vegas.
LANGFORD: OK. Las Vegas, interesting town.
GRACE: I`m sure it`s unique.
LANGFORD: Seriously, what was your next point?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m sure all the handymen are very unique there.
LANGFORD: Well, sometimes handymen are very difficult to get --
GRACE: The phone calls, the killer bragging, the duplicate key, the running into a retainer wall while asleep on Ambien, driving a diesel truck.
LANGFORD: Why are you making fun of that? You know that --
GRACE: I`m not making fun of that.
LANGFORD: Especially when you are distraught and upset about the death of your wife.
GRACE: I am poking a hole at your theory.
LANGFORD: Having been murdered by somebody. And you`re taking Ambien, never having taken that before, can`t sleep anyway, and you nod off into a retaining wall. It happens and it happened here.
GRACE: OK. You know what? Granted, that may be true, Mr. Langford. But what I am saying is there are so many -- it`s a snowball. It starts off with the hammer. Then it goes to giving a ride. Then they`re back, making a duplicate key and it goes on and on and on.
Paula Stokes-Richards, you`re her sister. Is what Langford saying, is it true? They were reconciling?
PAULA STOKES-RICHARDS, SISTER OF MURDERED WIFE/MOM, SHAUNA TIAFFAY: No. I will tell you that my sister talked to my mother the night that she was killed and she said that nothing had changed, that George was badgering her all -- ever since she moved out to move back in with him. She had no intention of moving back in, that there were still issues.
George went to therapy a few times. He would stop going. He would go again. Nothing was resolved. She wanted nothing more than for things to change and for things to work out, but they were not at that place at that time. And, to my knowledge, George is the one that filed for divorce. And I have no knowledge if Shauna had to sign something that occurred on Wednesday, but in my experience, the person that files for divorce can easily rescind that paperwork.
So as of Friday night when she spoke with my mother, there was no change in the status of their relationship.
GRACE: Why would she lie to her own mother, Robert Langford?
LANGFORD: Well, it`s not true in -- she had actually filed a counterclaim for divorce. And so because of that, both parties had to agree to withdraw the divorce. And, you know, I can`t talk -- I`m not going to talk about hearsay.
GRACE: Why?
LANGFORD: The court record shows -- because I don`t know what the conversations were.
GRACE: Why? Grab the bull by the horns and ride with it. This is what`s going to happen at trial.
LANGFORD: Why would I run and talk about what the family is saying?
GRACE: Because they can testify at trial.
LANGFORD: I don`t think that`s going to come out. It`s hearsay.
GRACE: Why? I know but there are over 20 exceptions to hearsay rule, sir.
LANGFORD: And that one`s not one of them.
GRACE: It could be excited utterance, could it not?
LANGFORD: No. How is that an excited utterance? You`re talking to your mother on the phone. How is that an excited utterance?
GRACE: Well, what if she were describing a confrontation she had heard with your client, she had had with your client?
LANGFORD: That`s not what I just heard.
GRACE: Just before that phone call.
LANGFORD: That`s not a confrontation. The court record show --
GRACE: But then you don`t know.
LANGFORD: They were withdrawing the divorce. That`s what the court records show. We know that for certain.
GRACE: What about dead man`s exception?
LANGFORD: Everything else --
GRACE: What about that? There are over 20 exceptions we could show.
LANGFORD: The dead man`s exception happens when you`ve been hurt and are about to die, Nancy.
GRACE: No. Actually, it has been expanded.
LANGFORD: No, no.
GRACE: Yes, it has. Darryl Cohen, is there a way -- you know what, I don`t even know why I`m asking this.
Darryl, statements made by a deceased victim under certain circumstances can come in and get around the hearsay rule. We just saw that in the trial of the former police officer, Drew Peterson. There`s a lot of ways to get hearsay into evidence.
COHEN: Certainly, Nancy, there are ways of getting hearsay into evidence. But in this instance, it`s not one of those exceptions, number one. And, number two, it doesn`t matter. There`s nothing to connect the firefighter with his wife`s death.
GRACE: OK. I`m talking specifically about what Paula Stokes-Richards said.
Larry Fishelson, telecommunications expert, co-founder of Dynalink Communications. Weigh in, Larry. How will telecommunications play in this case? For instance, placing the husband around the scene of the crime? How?
LARRY FISHELSON, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT, DYNALINK COMMUNICATIONS: It definitely will. What they`re going to look at, Nancy, first, is they`re going to look at the call logs, they`re going to look at the call durations between both the suspects, time of day that the calls were made and also through pings they`re going to be able to see the locations of where they both were throughout this through every single call.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Out to the lines. John, North Dakota. Hi, John, what`s your question?
JOHN, CALLER FROM NORTH DAKOTA: Hi, Nancy, thanks for taking my call. Me and my wife watch your show every night.
GRACE: Thank you.
JOHN: I`ve been listening to the show and the attorney, I just think it`s obvious he`s lying, Nancy. He has an answer for everything and I agree with you. Why would you call a handyman 86 times, especially if you`re a fireman? I just don`t know how he can sit there and say all this with a straight face.
GRACE: You know, John in North Dakota, I don`t know if a jury is going to agree with you or not.
Let`s go to Robert Langford, the lawyer for the firefighter. You know, I know in your world you seem to be suggesting that the Vegas handymen are a different breed than everyone else in the country, but 86 calls, coincidentally, at the time of his wife`s murder?
And also, what did you say to Shauna`s own sister who says the night before Shauna`s murder there was no reconciliation in the works?
LANGFORD: Well, I`m not going to talk to Shauna`s sister. With all due respect. I think that Shauna was a terrific person. I want to comment on the fact of how people say she`s a cocktail waitress. In Las Vegas, that -- you know, a lot of people do that. All ages of people are cocktail servers. So there`s nothing wrong with being a cocktail server in Las Vegas. And that`s -- it`s hearsay. It`s just not going to come in. All of the evidence is going to show that they were reconciling.
GRACE: OK. There you go again saying what`s not going to come in. Here`s a news flash, Langford, we`re not in court yet. I`m asking about the truth. I`m not asking about how you`re going to keep the jury from hearing about it. I`m asking you what is your answer?
And to you, Seth Myers, you`re a clinical psychologist. It always just rubs me the wrong way, it makes the hair go up on the back of my neck, when I bring up a fact that is damning and the immediate response is well, that`s not coming into evidence.
I don`t care if it`s not coming into evidence. This is not the U.S. Supreme Court. This is the NANCY GRACE SHOW, and here it all comes into evidence. Does that disturb you?
SETH MYERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, absolutely. It seems very flip and very defensive. And it seems like it betrays reality. I mean the truth is we really need to know the truth in order to proceed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: American hero, Army Sergeant Jonathan Richardson, 24. Bald Knob, Arizona. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved fishing, cars. Parents James and Sharon, brother Jason, sister Jasmine.
Jonathan Richardson, American hero.
And tonight we remember Helen Graham, champion golfer, loving mother to three children, four grands, one great grand.
Helen Graham. Good night, friend.
Back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Did a firefighter sworn to protect the lives of others have a hand in the murder of his own estranged wife?
Out to the lines. Evan in Kentucky. Hi, Evan, what`s your question?
EVAN, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering, boy, if I were to kill somebody, I definitely would like to have that attorney as my attorney. I just want to know --
GRACE: Well, maybe you`ll get that chance, Evan in Kentucky. Go ahead. What`s your question?
EVAN: I just want to know why don`t you think it`s normal to call a handyman 86 times? I mean I feel like --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Have you?
EVAN: I have an electrician. I call him --
GRACE: Have you called your handyman 86 times?
EVAN: I`ve really had to call my electrician 100 times to get a response.
GRACE: You counted 100 times?
EVAN: About 100 times.
GRACE: Yes, OK. You know what, I don`t believe you.
Dr. Bill Manion, joining me from Philadelphia, what does the severity of the blows to this woman suggest to you?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, he was certainly intent on murdering her. It`s kind of an overkill type of situation. He may have been startled if she started to scream or anything. She certainly knew she was being assaulted because she does have defensive wounds. She put her hands up and did sustain some wounds. The other point, even though they didn`t find the murder weapon, if she has discreet wounds, they can find a hammer that was -- they know what hammer was purchased and they can compare the diameter of that hammer to the diameter of the wounds and say that the wounds inflicted were consistent with that hammer.
GRACE: And tonight, good night from friend of the show, Andrea.
Everyone, "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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