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Interview with Jimmy Carter; Bending Cultures Through Music; No Deal, No Check for Long-Term Unemployed; Missing Link To Mona Lisa Mystery; Michigan House Approves Right-To-Work
Aired December 11, 2012 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER: Well, it says that the protection of environment goes up and down in America, basically, because of the attitude of the president. And when President Reagan came in, he removed the solar panels and sent them to a college up in, I think, in Connecticut.
And, now, we have one of the solar panels at the Carter Center. It's one in the museum and the number one producer of solar panels in the world, which is in China, also bought one of the solar panels. So, they have brought a lot of money in for that small college.
But I think what it says is that we need to have consistency in America in committing ourselves to preserving the environment, protecting us from global warming which is real and we also need leadership coming from the White House every day saying we need to do something about global warming.
That hasn't happened yet and my hope is that in President Obama's second term he'll be the leader of the world and not lagging behind the other nations in doing something about global warming.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, ANCHOR, "CNN NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL": You were a nuclear engineer at one point, promoted nuclear energy.
How do you make the distinction between nuclear energy for good use, good purposes, and for bad use and Iran's argument that they are creating nuclear energy for power and not as a threat to the United States?
Speak to the link between energy and national security.
CARTER: I was in charge of the development of the second atomic submarine, working with Admiral Rickover, and I was an early nuclear physicist. I had -- that was my graduate work.
And I have -- was convinced then and convinced now that are is a place for nuclear power for peaceful purposes, but it ought to be not for war, not for bombs, but for propelling ships and for producing power.
At same time, it needs to be safe. We've never had anybody hurt in this country because of a nuclear accident.
I was president when Three Mile Island took place and there was very dire concerns about the consequences of that that many people would get killed.
The next day, my wife and I went to the control room in Three Mile Island to prove to people that it was safe.
So, I think that if nuclear is treated as a very wonderful opportunity safe and free-from-pollution source of energy and is adequately managed like you do in a nuclear submarine, then I think it's a good place to have it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: More of my interview with the former president, coming up.
He says that he is in support of legalizing the use of marijuana. He is not the only former president who thinks so.
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MALVEAUX: The war on drugs, when Bill Clinton was in the White House, he intensified the battle, but since then, he's had a change of heart. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Well, obviously, if the expected results was that we were to have to eliminate serious drugs in America and eliminate the narco-trafficking networks, it hasn't worked.
I think there should be safe places where people who have addiction could come and not think they're going to be arrested and will have basic needs met.
I have experience with this, including personal experience. I had a brother who was addicted to cocaine, so I know a lot about this and I understand more than most people do what is involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Former President Clinton, opening up about the war on drugs in the new documentary, "Breaking the Taboo."
Now, he is not the only former president who thinks the war on drugs has been a failure. I asked President Jimmy Carter what he thinks about the fight to legalize marijuana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTER: When I was president, in 1979, I made my definitive speech about drugs and I called for the decriminalization of marijuana. This was in 1979.
Not ...
MALVEAUX: Fast-forward to today.
CARTER: Not for the legalization, but for the decriminalization to keep people from being put in prison just because they were smoking a marijuana cigarette.
And I pointed out nobody should be punished worse for smoking a cigarette than a cigarette would be to them if they smoked it.
But now we have, for every person who was in prison when I went out of office in 1981, there eight Americans now in prison and most of those Americans who are now in prison and most of those Americans who were executed with the death penalty are African-American or Hispanic or other minorities and also people who have a mental problem.
You cannot imagine a white, male man who has money being executed.
So the death penalty in America and putting everybody in prison because they have marijuana is a very major step backward and it ought to be reversed not only in America, but around the world.
MALVEAUX: What do you make of the legalization of marijuana and the states that have legalized marijuana?
CARTER: I'm in favor of it. I think it's OK.
I'm -- I don't think it's going to happen in Georgia yet, but I think we can watch and see what happens in the state of Washington, for instance, around Seattle, and let the American government and let the American people see, does it cause a serious problem or not?
All drugs were decriminalized in Portugal about 10 years ago and the use of drugs has done down dramatically and nobody has been put in prison, so I think a few places around the world is good to experiment with and also just a few states in America are good to take the initiative and try something out.
That's the way our country has developed over the last 200 year is by a few states kind of being experiment stations. So, on that basis, I'm in favor of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Making news there.
Also sat down with CNN founder, Ted Turner, and Richard Branson of Virgin Atlantic Airways fame. Interviewed them for the environmental group, Captain Planet Foundation Gala, where we had a discussion on clean energy.
We're going to be rolling out the interviews in "CNN Newsroom" in the days to come.
Tomorrow, I'm going to bring you my interview with Richard Branson where he enters the political fray.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BRANSON, FOUNDER, VIRGIN GROUP: I think if the Republican Party could change so that, you know, they were fiscally astute, but they also, you know, really cared about the individual, they cared as much about the gay person living in America, as the single mother, as the, you know, as the woman that, you know, can't -- you know just can't have her eighth child or her ninth child, et cetera, et cetera.
I mean, you know, just being a little more caring and understanding, then I think the Republicans could become electable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: That interview airing tomorrow right here on CNN.
And they grabbed our attention, 2012. Now, you can vote for the top ten most intriguing people of the year. Just log on to CNN.com/intriguing. We're going to announce the results Monday, December 24th.
And a record settlement, but no prosecution, global banking giant, HSBC, admits that it failed to stop money laundering by Mexican drug cartels and terrorism financiers.
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MALVEAUX: This is where high finance and street crime intersect. It could be a problem on your street, as well.
We are talking about the banking giant, HSBC, Europe's largest. It's going to have to pay $2 billion to settle an investigation by U.S. prosecutors who are looking into international drug money laundering.
Investigators say that the bank ignored rules that could have stopped this laundering operation, that the money eventually went to drug cartels and terrorists.
Jim Boulden is joining us from London. What happened?
JIM BOULDEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, this is interesting. All of these banks have been fined by the U.S. government over last few years, but HSBC, by far, the biggest. This fine, as you say, $1.9 billion.
Basically, the government says that this bank has not been complying with U.S. laws when it comes to finding out where the money is going to, where the money's come from.
U.S. government says there was too much money coming from Mexico for HSBC not to know between 2006 and 2009, that it must have been coming from money laundering from drug cartels.
So, HSBC has been fined and they say they have put new compliance measures into place so it wouldn't happen again.
MALVEAUX: And why are we seeing problems with or European banks, as well? They're getting caught. You've got these huge international -- these fines on these international banks.
BOULDEN: Exactly. Wachovia has been fined, but it's one of the few U.S. banks in the past that was fined for similar things. ING, HSBC, Standard Chartered, these banks tried to aggressively move into the U.S. market and they tried to find ways, of course, to build very quickly in the U.S., acquisitions and other things. They're such big banks.
The question is, are they so big that they couldn't follow what the U.S. was doing, what their people in the U.S. were doing? Were they able to get away with things in the U.S., not complying with U.S. law because headquarters here in Europe couldn't keep control of it? That's one of the questions.
The other one is, were they aggressively trying to build their business so much in the U.S. that they closed they're eyes to what was going on? That's why they're all facing fines, I think.
MALVEAUX: All right, thank you, John.
Traditional Ethiopian music meeting jazz rhythms, we're going to introduce you to an artist who never even touched an instrument until like 10 years ago. Well, now, he changing the face of Ethiopian music.
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(VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: That is lovely. Believe it or not, that's somebody who's only been playing the piano for about 10 years or so. Samuel Yirga. he's an Ethiopian musician. He likes to call his style Ethiojazz. Listen
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MALVEAUX: Well, he is amazing. His debut album, "Guzo," landed at the number one spot on the iTunes world music chart. Joining us, Samuel Yirga from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.
Good to see you, Samuel. We love your stuff. Discovered it and --
SAMUEL YIRGA, MUSICIAN: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: Sure. I understand it was kind of tough going in the beginning when you were a kid. You had some obstacles. Your parents were worried that this would get in the way of your studies. And then you finally took music lessons and your music teacher said she thought your hands were too small for the piano. You overcame all of this. Tell us about it.
YIRGA: Yes. It was (INAUDIBLE) surpass all those (INAUDIBLE) because I wanted to be a musician since I was small. And I asked my (INAUDIBLE) but, you know, the culture (INAUDIBLE) match. They appreciate my talent in music (INAUDIBLE). So it was very (INAUDIBLE) after completing the last (INAUDIBLE) --
MALVEAUX: We're having a tough connection. A tough time hearing you. We're going to try to get you back. We're going to try to get that connection fixed so we can ask you a little bit more about your music. It is really beautiful. And it is called "ethiojazz." If you get a take -- a chance to listen, it is really quite amazing. We're going to try to bring him back.
We also know Mona Lisa's smile. But what about the woman herself?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Historical documents seem to indicate that this is the place where Lisa Gherardini, otherwise known as Mona Lisa, was buried. Beyond that, it's all a mystery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And 7.7 percent, that is where unemployment stands right now in the United States. It is the lowest it's been since December of 2008. It's progress, but there are still at least 12 million Americans who are not heading into work today, 4.8 million of them long term unemployed. The long term jobless receive unemployment benefits from the federal government and those benefits, well, they go away at the end of the year for many of those folks if no deal is reached over this fiscal cliff.
CNN's Kyung Lah, she's got the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Liz De Bats doesn't call it a fiscal cliff. What she could be facing at year's end is a financial freefall.
LIS DE BATS, UNEMPLOYED WORKER: I don't know. I just don't wish I was in this situation, but it is what it is and I could just do what I can.
LAH: De Bats lost her job as a new home sales manager last January. On an old laptop, with a broken cord, she applies for job after job, keeping track in a packed notebook.
DE BATS: Seven, eight, nine.
LAH: Averaging 15 applications a day. At age 54, this is the first time she's ever been on unemployment. She's emptied out her 401(k), her savings and now the last resort. The emergency federal jobless program has kept De Bats in her town home, giving her $450 a week. But on December 29th, unless Congress and the White House act, the money stops.
DE BATS: We're not trying to live off the system. We're trying to survive. It's not a luxury to be on unemployment. It's a means to keep us going.
LAH (on camera): The fear of the fiscal cliff isn't just here in De Bats' suburban neighborhood. In the states with the highest unemployment, from the west to the north to the south, they will be hit the hardest. Some 2 million Americans will see those federal unemployment benefits disappear all at once.
(voice-over): Economist Chris Thornburgh says these Americans are the unfortunate pawns in the tough game of politics and budget balancing.
CHRIS THORNBERG, BEACON ECONOMICS: So, ultimately, this is a trade- off. The trade-off, of course, has to be that while in some way some people are going to be hit painfully by reduction in federal benefits, at the same time we have to appreciate that this deficit has to be closed.
LAH: But at what human costs, asks De Bats?
DE BATS: There's my refrigerator.
LAH: She's down to condiments until the next unemployment check arrives. But while we're here talking to her about the fiscal cliff, she gets an e-mail.
DE BATS: Yeah! My third interview. OK, great. Whoa, OK, that was good news.
LAH: A third interview for a sales job. If Washington can't do it, maybe this job will pull her back from the cliff.
DE BATS: Oh my God. I can't believe how excited I am right now.
LAH: Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: It took more than 500 years, but the lady behind Leonardo Da Vinci's mystic smile is still the subject of speculation. Well now Italian archaeologists, they think they might have found the missing link to the mystery of Mona Lisa. They've excavated remains which they think belong to the woman who modeled for the famous painting.
Our Ben Wedeman, he reports from the excavation site.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): The smile has perplexed art historians for centuries. Leonardo Da Vinci's priceless masterpiece, the Mona Lisa, or La Gioconda.
In the frigid bowels of what was once a convent in Florence, television producer turned art researcher Silvano Vinceti is leading a project to find and identify the remains of the woman who posed for Da Vinci more than 500 years ago.
(on camera): Historical documents seem to indicate that this is the place where Lisa Gherardini, otherwise known as Mona Lisa, was buried. Beyond that, it's all a mystery.
(voice-over): The remains of five females have been found here. This skull may be that of Lisa Gherardini, the second wife of a wealthy Florence silk merchant. The remains will be compared with the DNA of two relatives buried elsewhere.
No other likeness of her has ever been found. And given that Da Vinci spent years working on the painting, it's possible the real Lisa Gharardini bears no resemblance to the Mona Lisa.
"Once we identify the remains," Vinceti tells me, "we can reconstruct the face with a margin of error of 2 to 8 percent. By doing this, we'll finally be able to answer the question the art historians can't -- who was the model for Leonardo."
The smile, on the other hand, will probably remain a mystery. Vinceti claims scientific analysis suggests the smile came later.
"When," he say, "Leonardo began painting the model in front of him, he didn't draw that metaphysical, ironic, poignant, elusive smile, but rather he painted a person who was dark and depressed."
The smile, Vinceti and others have suggested, may belong to Da Vinci's longtime assistant and some believe lover, Gian Giacomo Caprotti. While other art historians claim the painting was actually a scrumptious self-portrait.
So, we may never know if the smile was, as Nat King Cole sang, "to tempt a lover" or simply to confound humanity.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Florence, Italy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: I'm Suzanne Malveaux.
A huge pro-labor rally is playing out today outside the Michigan state house. Look. Demonstrators protesting so-called right-to-work legislation that lawmakers are in the process of voting on. Now the house has already voted to approve the part of the law covering public employees. Our Alison Kosik, she's outside the Michigan state house in Lansing.
Alison, first of all, give us a sense of why this is so important to folks there. You've got huge demonstrations and people who are angry on both sides.
KOSIK: Oh, yes. I mean, unions are really at the fabric of so many people who live in Michigan. It's why these protesters have come out today, although the numbers, they got probably as high as a few thousand. The numbers have certainly dwindled ever since that first vote came through.
But this means so much to the folks who live here in Michigan because unions were practically born here.
