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Michigan Lawmakers Approve Right-To-Work; Bank Pays Laundering Settlement; Hunt for NYC Assassin

Aired December 11, 2012 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Unions. Unions. Unions.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The sound of protesters chanting, filled the state house gallery in Lansing, while inside the capital chamber, the Republican-led legislature passed not just one, two right to work bills. One was for the public workers. The second, which passed moments ago, covers workers in the private sector.

With the passing of both bills here, Michigan will become the 24th right to work state. All that's left for that to happen, for the Republican governor to sign it. Rick Snyder promises to do exactly that, probably tomorrow.

Take a look at some more pictures we have for you here. More than 12,000 protesters gathered in freezing temperatures. I think I saw some snow falling earlier there in Lansing, as these lawmakers were inside, voting. And against the odds, Democrats waged a final losing battle.

Poppy Harlow, let me bring you in there, amidst all of this in Lansing. Set the scene for me. Now that we know, Poppy, both the bills passed, what's the reaction been like in the crowd?

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: We knew this was going to happen and, frankly, Brooke, so did many of the workers, many of them union workers here in the crowd today, as you said, thousands, likely more than 10,000 here protesting this legislation. But it's about the symbolism. What does this mean for a state like Michigan that is really at the heart of the organized labor movement in America to pass this right-to-work legislation.

For our viewers that might not know what this means. That if it is signed by the governor, which in all likelihood it will be, this means that it will be illegal for a union or an employer to force someone to join a union or pay any money to that union. That changes the picture for everyone from public school teachers that are unionized, to autoworkers on the line at GM, Ford or Chrysler.

Interestingly, though, today, too here, Brooke, you had fellow union workers protesting that aren't even part of this legislation. It does not apply to firefighters or police officers. But yet here today we found firefighters who were protesting this, saying this is bad for workers across Michigan and nationally.

I want you to take a listen to Ted Copley. He's one of those. And he explains why.

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HARLOW: Does this mean the beginning of sort of a death of unions in this country? Are you concerned that this is that big symbolically?

BOB KING, UAW PRESIDENT: No, I think that unions -- I think things like this are waking the sleeping giant. I think that workers and working families are tired of losing. They want a fair share of the prosperity of this state, and this country, and I think that's going to help build the union movement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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HARLOW: Exempt from this right-to-work legislation. Why are you here?

TED COPLEY, DETROIT FIREFIGHTER: Well, yes, that's correct that we are, as of right now, exempt from this legislation. But it doesn't change the fact that we want to be here to support all our brothers and sisters in the unions, because we are also union. And the fact that our parents, our grandparents and our great grandparents, they struggled and they fought and some have even died to have the right to organize for better safety, better wages, better benefits for their children.

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HARLOW: Brooke, you just heard from that firefighter and then ahead of him you heard from a man really at the center of this, Bob King, the president of the United Autoworkers here, saying this doesn't necessarily mean the death of unions. The reason I asked him that question is because we've really seen the decline of union membership, not only here in Michigan, but nationally. It was more than 20 percent of all workers were unionized in 1983. Today, it's under 12 percent. So the symbolism here in Michigan is key.

And I spent time out here with the protesters today and also inside the capital, behind me. If we can roll some of that video. When the first bill of these two bills passed, they sat on the floor, the protesters, chanting, "veto, veto," saying "this is our house." Clearly, though, the legislation not moving in the direction they want.

The only option now, Brooke, frankly, is for them to work hard over the next two years to get representatives they want elected, to get a new governor elected, that could overturn this legislation. But as long as it's signed by the governor, this is the new law of the land in Michigan.

BALDWIN: I know so much of this having talked to folks on certainly one side, that this is just the beginning of a fight. Certainly will be a push for the elections in two more years. But there's another side. Poppy Harlow, thank you. Because joining me here in just a moment, also there from Lansing, is Bobby Schostak. He's chairman of Michigan's state Republican Party. He's going to join me here in a moment.

But just by coincidence, here he is, welcome, sir, the president visited your neck of the woods yesterday in Redford, Michigan, not too far from Detroit. And you probably heard what he said about the so- called right-to-work legislation. Let me just play a portion of that.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What we shouldn't be doing is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages. The so-called right-to-work laws, they don't have to do with economics. They have everything to do with politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Politics, he says. Bobby Schostak, you heard the resounding cheer. Of course you have to consider the crowd there. What do you say to that, that this is nothing but politics?

BOBBY SCHOSTAK, CHMN. MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY: Well, this is about economic growth, economic development, freedom for workers to have choices. And it's everything but politics. I mean this was a hotly discussed issue for a couple of years here in Michigan. It was coming forward one way or another. And the fact that the president sees it otherwise, I think frankly ought to pay attention to the tenth amendment. And this is what the state of Michigan is calling for, and so that's the direction we're going.

BALDWIN: Economic growth and development. But with all due respect, I mean you're not an elected official. Your job as the head of the state Republican Party is to help elect Republicans. But unions clearly back your opponent. So doesn't it help you politically to further weaken the unions which is precisely what this legislation will be doing?

SCHOSTAK: Well, look, this is about business and job growth for all Michigan citizens and all businesses and everybody who's affected by positive things happening in Michigan. And the president speaks to job growth and opportunity and this is one of the avenues to do it.

There are people on both sides of the aisle, in fact union members are in favor of this legislation because it's about choice and it's about opportunity. It's about freedom to decide whether to join a union or not and to pay dues and to participate in those benefits. If the unions have a valued proposition for their members, unions will prosper in Michigan. And if they don't, they're going to have to find a new way to be effective. And that's very simply what this is about.

BALDWIN: And I'll be talking to one of those union members who is thrilled that this will, in all likelihood, pass. And he's thrilled about the choice. But at the same time, next hour, Bobby, I'll be talking to Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa next hour, who's been out there in Lansing. He says, and I'm quoting him, that this is war on the middle class. He's been quoted as blaming billionaires pressuring the governor, some Republicans, to support this policy, which he argues will actually lower wages for Michiganders. What do you think? I know you talk about, you know, bolstering the economy and economic development. What more will it mean for workers in your state?

SCHOSTAK: Well, I think that overall in Michigan, we're looking at bringing businesses here and growing our state and providing an environment that's conducive for business growth. And it has everything to do with the cost of labor, it has everything to do with regulation, it has everything to do with the cost of utilities and every aspect of bringing a business, in any state, and we need to be competitive. And there's 23 other states that are competitive with Michigan on business growth. And this will grow jobs and give opportunity for union members, non-union members, folks to relocate to Michigan, grow our population once again, keep our young people here after they graduate college. So there's a whole host of issues here that are affected by a positive change like this for Michigan, which is why there is so much support for this bill.

BALDWIN: Sure. And those sound like many a positive reason why this is a good thing. But at the same time, you do have Democrats and they're saying what you're doing here, with this law, is laying the ground work for endless confrontation. Do you think that's true, endless confrontation? I mean how do you see this playing out? Because these people say this is just the beginning.

SCHOSTAK: There is no place for confrontation here. I mean some of the behavior going on behind me today is reprehensible. And the union membership, leadership, and any Democrats that are associated with it should condone it. This is all about the opportunity for all citizens of Michigan to find a new and a better way and a more effective way for their families to grow their families and expand their opportunities, financially and otherwise. And so we're here to help all Michigan families grow and prosper and it's not about one particular special interest group that is going one direction or the other.

BALDWIN: Chairman of the Michigan state Republican Party, Bobby Schostak, thank you.

Roll the animation. Stop the presses. Three weeks until the fiscal cliff deadline. The man leading the Republicans here hits the floor of Congress to deliver what many Americans are hoping is a major development. So?

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REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: A lot of people know that the president and I met on Sunday. It was a nice meeting. It was cordial. But we're still waiting for the White House to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the balanced approach that he promised the American people. You know, where are the president's spending cuts? And the longer the White House slow walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff.

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BALDWIN: No news. Zip. Still no agreement. We'll let you know if something significant happens.

Developing now. Hugo Chavez undergoing surgery in Cuba today. An operation that we're told was, quote/unquote, "delicate." The Venezuelan president's current health is a bit of a mystery. But we do know he had surgery last year to remove a cancerous tumor. It's still not yet clear what kind of operation he had today. Updates as we get them.

Broad daylight on a crowded New York sidewalk. Someone walks up to a man and shoots him, point blank range. Today, a race for answers.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

Move over, America. A sobering new report suggests China is getting ready to surpass the U.S. economy.

Plus --

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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the place where Lisa Gherardini, otherwise known as Mona Lisa, was buried.

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BALDWIN: CNN goes inside the search for Da Vinci's famous muse.

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BALDWIN: The heat is coming down on the bankers. Three were arrested in London this morning. Alleged manipulation of global interest rates. This goes back to the meltdown.

Also today, global banking giant HSBC agrees to a record payment, $1.92 billion -- yes, that is billion with a b -- to settle accusations of money laundering. Check this out. A report by the Senate Banking Committee found that HSBC in Mexico shipped $7 billion in cash across the U.S. border. The committee basically said $7 billion, no way there wasn't a bunch of drug money there.

Great guest here on this today. A man who told me in the commercial break he likes to get to say, I told you so. Neil Barofsky, he is the former federal prosecutor who oversaw the bank bailout.

Neil Barofsky, the head of HSBC here, his name is Stuart Gulliver. And let me quote for you what he's saying today. Quote, "we accept responsibility for our past mistakes." He goes on to say, "we have said we are profoundly sorry and we say so again."

Neil, is there any way these banking officials did not know they were dealing with drug money?

NEIL BAROFSKY, FMR. TARP INSPECTOR GENERAL: Look, I mean, you look at the scope and size of the conduct that's described in this settlement and just the number of the settlement of $2 billion.

BALDWIN: Huge.

BAROFSKY: And the notion that this wasn't something that was known on senior levels of the banks, at least they had plenty of reason to suspect that this was ongoing. And, look, Gulliver should be very happy today. He just got -- I think somebody described it as the biggest slap on the wrist in the history of banking fines.

BALDWIN: I'm sure it's still hurting. You're saying reason to suspect. So that's your answer there. But, again, close to $2 billion. It's a hefty fine. Hefty, harmful slap on his wrist. What about criminal charges here? You think someone should go to jail for this?

BAROFSKY: Look, I don't know how you can look at the conduct that was described, and the size of the fine, and not conclude that there was clearly criminal conduct here. It's not as if these companies commit these crimes by themselves. It takes individuals to commit these -- to commit the acts that underlie the conduct here.

BALDWIN: So should they go to jail?

BAROFSKY: Absolutely. And what you have here, which is think is the most stunning, was described in the papers this morning, is that the Department of Justice decided not to seek criminal charges against the institution itself, not because of a posity (ph) of evidence, but because they were afraid of destabilizing the financial system. In other words, this sort of solidifies that we have two tiers of justice in this country. One for everyone else and one for financial institutions that are so large, so big, so interconnected, that they could bring down the economy in 2008 and commit crimes and not be held accountable. I mean this is a really significant problem going forward, the very stark acknowledgement today that they're not going to seek criminal charges against institutions just because they're too big.

BALDWIN: Let me move on. Second item. Three arrests in London today for this alleged manipulation of global interest rates. Here we're talking trillions of dollars. We're talking about the rates on credit cards, home mortgages, you know, you name it. The investigation does have a long way to go. Do you think we will find out that there was some kind of conspiracy to rip off borrowers, Neil?

BAROFSKY: Oh, I don't think there's any question that there was a conspiracy to set these rates. If you look at the Barclay's settlement, we have the charges today. All the news of additional banks that are being lined up to settle. There's no question that there was a conspiracy. That it was likely done for individual profit, for the terms of traders and overall profit for the companies to make them look like they were better off than they actually were, which is a deception on the entire marketplace.

The big question comes, one, are we going to see criminal charges against the institutions and bring some level of high level accountability so to deter this conduct from going forward. And then, secondly, are we going to see high level indictments. Significant people in charge who are running these institutions to the extent the evident links them up so we can have that degree of accountability. Because if we don't, just like the HSBC matter, it's essentially telling -- telling the executives in these institution, crime pays. Go ahead, do whatever you want to do, enjoy your profits, and the worst thing that happens, well, you have some fines that really make up a matter of a couple of weeks of profits that you lose --

BALDWIN: So you're saying these fines, this is like chump change to these folks?

BAROFSKY: Chump change. $2 billion to HSBC is probably about, what, six weeks, eight weeks of earnings. I mean it's a lot of money certainly -- even, you know, relatively or specifically. But compared to the profits that you can make by breaking the law, if you know that the degree of accountability that's going to come is that, you know, from an individual level, you're essentially going to keep all the profits that you made in your bonus for doing this illegal activity.

And even as an institution, who really pays? It's the shareholders. Today's shareholders are paying for profits earned by yesterday's executives. This is an untenable situation that's going to lead to more crime and more crisis.

BALDWIN: Neil Barofsky, you wrote the book, "Bailout." You oversaw it. Thank you, sir. Good to have you back on the show.

BAROFSKY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: In broad daylight, along one of New York's busiest streets, someone shoots a man, point blank, and then runs. Now as police hunt for the so-called assassin, look at this, new video shows the suspect moments before.

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BALDWIN: This next story shocked even your most hardened New Yorkers. Happened just about 24 hours ago in midtown Manhattan, not too far from Carnegie Hall, Columbus Circle, if you know the area. Here's what happened. A lone gunman walked up behind his victim, put a gun to the back of the man's head, pulled the trigger, walked away, then got into a nearby waiting car, leaving this 31-year-old law student dying on the sidewalk. And no one in that crowded street saw the gunman. Take a listen to some of the people who were there. They describe what they didn't see.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one seen the person that did it. No -- whoever did it was, like, you know, he was a ghost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like the guy never existed. Whoever did it got away clean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Not exactly clean, because police do have some surveillance video and it shows the hit. We're not going to show you that. But I do want you to take a close look here at this still photo. Take a look. Because this is the moment before the gunman, you see the man on left side with that hoodie pulled over his head, pulls the gun, fires. The guy in the hoodie, that's who police are searching for. And I know it's tough to look at. You can barely see the tiny glimpse of his features.

But then there's this. The car he got away in. it was a Lincoln MKZ, a sedan. Here's more of the police surveillance video. It shows the guy in the hoodie getting out of the gray Lincoln, watch closely. This gives you an idea of what the car looks like. Let's not forget here the victim in this brazen murder, Brandon Woodward, a law student visiting New York from California. He does have a police record. A couple of misdemeanors and a felony cocaine possession charge. But what would make him the subject of such a brazen hit, in broad daylight, on a busy New York street?

Gil Alba, let me bring you in, a former NYPD detective. What do you make of this? Was it a hit?

GIL ALBA, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes, no, definitely a hit. You know, because this is midtown. And that's one of the things you worry about is somebody shooting everybody. But this was specifically a hit. And the reason people don't identify or see somebody right away is because they hear some noise and then they look around. This guy already has walked away. So they don't really see the act or what happened. So that's why they can't identify the guy.

BALDWIN: So are you not surprised by that? Because, I mean, I know this area. A lot of people know this area. There are a lot of people milling about. It's lunch time. We hear one guy saying it was almost like the gunman was a ghost. But we showed the surveillance video. It shows him clearly sort of hanging around. What do you make of that?

ALBA: Yes, because it's -- really for witnesses to see something like that. But you know what happens with the surveillance camera sometimes, they're not the best and you can't get a good look at somebody and you can't (ph) enhance it. But, you know, making it so brazen and New York City Police Department, you know, investigating this. So there's no doubt in my mind they're going to get him.

They know the car. They know the, you know, the -- Woodward, the person. They're going to do background, check everything. They've got his cell phone, his text messages. Everything they're going to check on. Did he get a summons? You know, right there, where you park your car, if you're idling in your car more than three minutes, they give you a ticket. So maybe -- did they get any tickets?

Then they go on Seventh Avenue and they make a left on Seventh Avenue. This is driving right down to the middle of Times Square. So there's cameras. But, you know, after 9/11, you know, there's different cameras. You know, they got license plates where they can identify the license plates. So if they get a partial plate --

BALDWIN: Everywhere.

ALBA: Yes, they can find out what part of the city you're from. So I'm sure they're going to catch these guys.

BALDWIN: What about, just quickly, the victim here. We mentioned some petty crimes in his background, some theft, cocaine charge. What should police -- what are police looking for?

ALBA: Well, they're talking to his family, of course. You know, they said he went to college and he's 31 years old. But he did have a couple of serious arrests. I mean one did -- was a robbery. That means with a weapon. So it's a more serious charge than that. And then they're thinking of the angle of drugs. So that's another angle. So I don't know how pure this guy Woodward was. So you really have to do a background check and follow -- why -- I don't even know if they know why he's a New York at this present time.

BALDWIN: Scary. Broad daylight in New York. Gil Alba, thank you.

ALBA: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Brand new reaction pouring in as the governor of Michigan gets ready to sign right-to-work legislation. We're going to speak live with the teamsters leader, Jim Hoffa, coming up.

Plus, just a short time ago, NASA launching its secret baby shuttle. You will see the takeoff.

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