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Nancy Grace
28 Dead, 20 Children, in Connecticut School Shooting
Aired December 14, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Newtown, Connecticut. The nation in shock when a crazed gunman dressed head to toe in black goes on a deadly rampage at a quiet K through 4 elementary school, the unspeakable massacre leaving 27 dead, most of them little school children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. PAUL VANCE, CONNECTICUT STATE POLICE SPOKESMAN: ... 18 children who were pronounced dead at the scene. Two children were transported to area hospital and were pronounced dead at the hospital, 6 adults that were pronounced dead at the scene. Shooter was also pronounced dead at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw some of the bullets going past the hall!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tragedy unfolding at an elementary school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teacher pulled me into her classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine how they feel!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Newtown police receive a 911 call for an emergency at the elementary school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pop, pop, pop in the hall.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heard shots, then the kids ran out of the building and down the street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some children had to be walked past that pool of blood, past the bodies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard screaming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She heard hundreds of shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... teachers, when somebody yelled, Get to a safe place. So we went to a closet in the gym.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooting reported at that school about 9:41 this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Children led away crying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents just confused.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s 20 parents that were just told that their children are dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
We are live in Newtown, Connecticut. The entire nation in shock, in grief, a crazed gunman dressed head to toe in black goes on a deadly rampage at a quiet K through 4 elementary school, the unspeakable massacre leaving 27 dead, most of them little children.
Joining me at the scene, legal correspondent Beth Karas. Beth, take me from the beginning.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Nancy, the first call came in at about 9:40. Within a short time, police had descended on this elementary school, locked it down and got the survivors out safely.
Those who remained inside were dead, 18 children, 2 more taken to a hospital -- they died there -- 6 adults. And they are still in there, Nancy. The medical examiner has begun his work, we just learned, will be working throughout the night to identify all of the slain.
GRACE: I`m hearing you, Beth Karas, say that many of the children are still lying dead in the building. What, for crime scene processing?
KARAS: Yes, for processing and many (ph) identifications. They`re going to work all night.
GRACE: Have their parents even been allowed into the building?
And quickly, I want to go to Mike Brooks. Mike Brooks is with me, along with Beth Karas.
Beth, to you and Mike. First to you, Beth. Have the parents been able to go into the building? Have they been able to see their children?
KARAS: I do not believe so. When the parents came to a firehouse which is right near the school but on the street -- the school is set back -- children were reunited with their parents some hours ago.
And there came a point where the authorities then said to the remaining parents, There are no more children to reunite. In other words, anyone left had a child who did not survive.
Now, I do not believe they were allowed inside. Identifications are being made, maybe with them. And we`ll be informed again at 8:00 o`clock in the morning what progress they made overnight.
GRACE: With me now, Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. Mike Brooks, I`m trying to take in what Beth Karas is reporting, that the parents -- you know, they drop their children at school or they get on the school bus in the morning.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I know.
GRACE: Then they get this call. Our sources tell us a lot of people got this prerecorded call saying there`s been a school shooting, that it didn`t even necessarily say what school it was, that the parents all start going to the school. And there`s, like, a holding area where you`re reunited with your children. And then all of a sudden, there`s some parents standing there and there are no more children.
BROOKS: That`s basically what happened, Nancy, and -- but all of the parents -- we have been told that all of the parents have been notified. And law enforcement has assigned someone to the family so they get timely information as it comes.
We did hear from the Connecticut State Police spokesperson, Lieutenant Vance, that a tentative identification has been made of the children. But by law, the state of Connecticut has to make sure that they have that right, and they said they want to make sure they have that right. So they`re going to work through the night with the medical examiners, with crime scene officers to make sure that those identifications are done correctly. They should have them by tomorrow morning.
GRACE: Rita Cosby, what I`m not sure about is -- they know what children were not reunited. So they know what children are in the school. So how difficult can it be to make a positive ID? I`m just coming from the point of a parent, all right, why the parent can`t get their child`s body out of the school. That`s what I`m wondering.
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: No, and you know what? It`s got to be heart-breaking for the parents. But they`re trying to figure out the crime scene. Still information is coming together. They just want to make sure there`s no evidence, there`s no other information before they give the positive ID.
Also, it`s heart-breaking. Nancy, I`m here in the community. Right behind me also is where a prayer vigil is taking place. And I`m just going to back up because I want you to see how many people are here. This community has been devastated, and they`re just trying to handle this, walking on eggshells to tell the family.
GRACE: Joining me right now, John Berman, CNN anchor. He is at the home where a suspect`s brother has been taken for questioning. John Berman, we`re still going through the crime itself and the crime scene. You`re giving me a whole new stream of information about the shooter. Tell me.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this, Nancy, was quite a scene today. On the street where I`m standing in Hoboken, New Jersey, earlier today, there were Hoboken police, Jersey City police, bomb squad representatives and the FBI.
What they did is they went into the apartment of Ryan Lanza. That is the 24-year-old brother of the alleged shooter, Adam Lanza. The apartment building is right behind me. It`s a five-story building of mostly two and three-bedroom apartments.
Ryan Lanza was led from the building in handcuffs. At the time, he looked almost confused and dazed. He was taken into custody for questioning. Also taken into custody were two apparent roommates of Ryan Lanza, who authorities tell CNN they don`t believe are connected in any way to the suspect.
The FBI took some materials out of this apartment behind me, including perhaps, we think, a computer hard drive. But again, this is Ryan Lanza, who is the brother of Adam Lanza.
You may be wondering why they came to see him at all. Well, we`re not sure about that. One police officer as I was walking in here told me that there may have been some confusion over an ID that had been on the body of the shooter, Adam Lanza.
But again, to give you the sense of the difference in the scene right now -- this road that I`m standing on right now was closed off before. Now it`s virtually empty, just a few police officers standing in front of the building here. That may be a sign, Nancy, that this is no longer a scene that they think is seriously connected to the crime itself, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what? That`s probably an accurate observation, John Berman, because if they thought this was linked in any way to the shooting, you`d see crime scene tape around the building. There would be swarms of police officers. They would be in there processing the home, the bedroom, the computer, you name it.
With me is John Berman, CNN anchor, at the home where suspect`s brother taken for questioning. Now, John Berman, you were talking about a false ID. But it`s my understanding that the shooter possibly had his brother`s ID with him.
I want to hear about that. And I want to hear about the weapons used and where he got the weapons. Do we know?
BERMAN: You`re asking me? No, I have simply no idea about the weapons at all, that obviously up in Connecticut where the shootings took place.
As you said, the ID was what I had heard from a police officer here, which is that Adam Lanza had in his possession a brother that -- an ID that belonged to his brother, Ryan, who lived in this building behind me, and that`s how Ryan got mixed up in this whole thing.
GRACE: Got it.
BERMAN: But again, you know, if you`re Ryan Lanza, the 24-year-old, now you have a brother who`s dead and a shooting suspect in Connecticut. You have a mother who apparently has been murdered in Connecticut, as well. Imagine what must be going through this young man`s head tonight, Nancy.
GRACE: Back to you, Beth Karas. He`s right about the mix-up with the identification. I want to talk about how the shooter got the weapons, and his connection to this elementary school, not just elementary but starting at K, kindergartners, at that school.
But before you put the cart before the horse, Beth Karas, I want to go back to the beginning. It`s my understanding the first 911 call was made around 9:40 AM.
You are seeing a scene right now beyond any parent`s worst nightmare. The school -- imagine driving up to the school, the parking lot glutted. You see police there. You see what I`m seeing right there on the screen there. And all you want to do is find your child.
Parents race in there, and there`s a holding area for the children. Then all of a sudden, the children are gone and they tell the remaining parents there are no more children.
That call at 9:40 AM, Beth, how did the shooter get into the school and what, if any, is his connection to this school?
KARAS: Well, his connection to the school that we know of is that his mother, whom he killed, apparently, before going to the school, since he never made it out alive -- she was found dead in her home in the same town.
And then he may have shot his way inside. I don`t have details on how he entered. But two semiautomatic handguns were found near his body. A bigger gun, a longer gun, an AR-15 was found in his car outside. So that wasn`t used in the shooting. Now, these two handguns and the gun outside were all lawfully purchased and registered to his mother, Nancy Lanza.
GRACE: Oh, OK.
KARAS: So he got them...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait!
KARAS: ... maybe through her.
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Mike Brooks, take a look at these weapons, a .223 Bushmaster, Mike Brooks, a Glock and a Sig Sauer. What do we know about these weapons.
BROOKS: Well, the Glock and the Sig Sauer, Nancy, are both handguns. We don`t know a caliber. We don`t know if it was .9 millimeter, .40 caliber, .45. But the Bushmaster -- we don`t know what model Bushmaster. It is of a .233 caliber, AR-15, a civilian version, if you will, of an M- 16, like the military uses. That was found in his car. We don`t know how many rounds were fired. There were witness accounts...
GRACE: AR...
BROOKS: ... that there...
GRACE: AR is assault rifle.
BROOKS: That`s correct. That`s -- it`s AR-15. There are some witness accounts, Nancy, that they heard -- a number of people heard what they thought were at least a hundred rounds. What kind of magazines he had with these handguns, the capacity of these magazine, we don`t know.
I can tell you the normal Sig Sauer, the normal Glock will have usually up to around 19 rounds, somewhere in that vicinity. But you can get large-capacity rounds -- magazines. Now, the AR-15 that we`re showing there, that magazine normally holds about 30 rounds, Nancy. But that was inside the car.
Did he go back out to the car, come back in? We don`t know the sequence of events. But that`s a lot of rounds fired inside that school.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Right now, is a very special guest joining me, Lynn Wasik. Her daughter survived the shooting. Ma`am, thank you for calling in.
LYNN WASIK, DAUGHTER SURVIVED SCHOOL SHOOTING (via telephone): Oh, thank you.
GRACE: You know, I`ve got 5-year-old twins, and I`m just imaging what you went through today. How did you find out what was going on at the school?
WASIK: The only -- they had sent out, like, an alert. It`s through the system, the school system. And they just -- the only thing that I remember hearing was that there was a lockdown at the school. And I said, Oh. I didn`t really think much of it, other than maybe it was at the high school, and because the schools are so close together, they just automatically lock down all the schools. And I had no idea that it was her school.
And I called my husband at work and said, Can you look up and see what`s going on? And he just said to me, Wherever you are, get in your car and I`ll meet you at the school. And I said, Why? What`s going on? He goes, It`s her -- it`s Alexis`s school, he says, and we need to get there and we need to get her.
And I said OK. And so we got there, and it was -- it was a very unreal scene, if that is such a thing. And it was just -- it was horrifying. And my -- I think I`m still very numb. And we are thankful that our daughter is alive and she is with us. And she`s not far out of my presence. And so it`s just heart-wrenching and just very unreal.
And that`s all we knew. And we still didn`t know a lot of it once we got to the school. And so we just -- and a lot of it we had just kind of heard from everybody else.
GRACE: Everyone, with me is Lynn Wasik. Her daughter survived the shooting, one of the deadliest school shootings in this country at a K through 5 elementary school.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The intercom came on the school and she heard a scream and she heard a gunshot, two gunshots. She was in art class. And they had to hide in the closet and they were quiet. And the children -- I mean, the children were obviously very shaken. They were crying in the closet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At one point, they asked the ambulances to leave, that they didn`t need them. And we knew that that wasn`t a good sign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they were leaving, the police made them hold hands, and the police told them to close their eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Little children hiding in closets. Today the unspeakable, a gunman dressed head to toe in black unleashes a deadly hail of bullets inside an elementary school ages K through 5. At this hour, 27 dead.
We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Steven Kalb, reporter with the Connecticut Radio Network. Steven, thank you for being with us. A school that`s K through 4 -- these are the very youngest, the very youngest possible victims. Do we have any idea, Steven -- I know his mother was a teacher. What was the beef with the school? What`s the possible motive?
STEVEN KALB, CONNECTICUT RADIO NETWORK (via telephone): We don`t know as of this moment what the beef with the school was, nor with the mother. What we do know is, apparently, he went to the mother`s house first, shot - - we believe shot and killed her, then went to the school subsequently.
There was an argument between him and the principal. At some point, someone turned an intercom on, and that sort of alerted a lot of the teachers, who then subsequently locked down their rooms.
GRACE: So there was an argument that ensued between the shooter and the principal, and somebody turned on the intercom so the school could hear what was happening?
KALB: There are reports that he was arguing with the principal loudly, and there was -- apparently, there was some profanity that exchanged between the two of them. And someone -- and we`re not completely sure yet, so we`re holding back on identification -- someone hit the intercom button.
Teachers became aware that there was a loud conversation going on and some yelling and some screaming and some profanities being tossed at least from one side of the discussion. And some teachers then locked up their rooms and had their kids go into the corner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the largest mass killings at a school in the United States in U.S. history.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To hear her describe it, she said that there was -- there must have been a hundred, a hundred rounds. And I said, Really, truly, a hundred rounds? And she said -- she said, At least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just heard the principal was shot and killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were several fatalities at the scene, both students and staff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would ever think in a small town?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The facts seem to be getting even worse, if that can be imagined. The unspeakable evil unleashed today on tiny children in Newtown, Connecticut, an elementary school, ages K through 4, the target of a crazed gunman dressed head to toe in black, armed that we know of with three weapons, one of them being an assault rifle, unleashing his fury on 26 other people, many of them little children as young as 5 years old.
We are now joined by special guest Lieutenant J. Paul Vance of the Connecticut State Police. He has been inside the school. Lieutenant, first of all, our hearts going out to everyone in your community and all of your men and women that are there working.
What is happening at this hour? Are the children still in the school?
LT. J. PAUL VANCE, CONNECTICUT STATE POLICE: Well, this is a very painstaking process. It`s a process that`s going to require a great deal of man-hours and manpower to really determine exactly what occurred here.
In order to do this, it takes our personnel a great deal of time because we need to meticulously document everything before we make a singular move. We`re going to do everything we can to expedite the identification of all the deceased for the families, and we`ll do that as quickly as we possibly can.
GRACE: You know, Lieutenant, you are really between a rock and a hard spot because if there are still these little bodies in that building, the parents want them desperately. But on the other hand, when it`s all said and done, the parents are going to want some day -- I don`t know when -- they`re going to want every single detail. And it`s on you to process that scene and get every single detail.
VANCE: You`re absolutely correct, and we understand that. This is a horrific tragedy, as has been reported. We`re going to do everything that we possibly can to expedite that process, but we want to be extremely meticulous in everything that we do so we don`t miss a speck of anything. And unfortunately, that will take time.
But we`re doing our best to -- we understand the families` hurt, the families` pain, and we`re going to do everything we can to expedite this process.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was getting in my car, I heard sirens going off continuously. Car after car after car, some of them were flying up past my house and coming back around again and going to the school. This house is three houses away from the school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we first arrived there, there was not a lot of security to guard. And there were three children that came out. One of them was -- had a very bloody face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We immediately jumped in the car and headed down there, so -- (INAUDIBLE) it was really kind of mayhem in the room with all the kids and the teachers trying to find their kid, identify where yours is, making sure that they`re safe, and then trying to find out what the situation was and make sure everybody else was safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, all the questions are swirling. How did it happen? Why did it happen? Who was the shooter? Why did he pick this school? Why innocent school children? Why did it have to be this way?
This is what we know. I know that there are 27 people dead. I know the scene of the crime was a K through 4 elementary school in a quiet community. I know that sources are telling us some of the bodies are still inside the school as the police try desperately to try and process that scene. It`s on their shoulders to get all these answers.
And in the midst of all this, there are parents and little brothers and sisters and relatives and loved ones reeling with the fact that they sent their child to school and they never saw them alive again.
With me, one of the lawmen charged with making some sense of what is nonsensical. Lieutenant J. Paul Vance with the Connecticut State Police is joining us live on the scene with Beth Karas. Lieutenant, is it true that some of the children`s bodies are still in the building?
VANCE: Well, it`s important to note that the answer to that is yes. We have to be meticulous in everything that we do. We have to document everything that we do. And we will and our expediting the process of removing the deceased and having them positively identified. We`re working on that right now.
But it is a painstakingly long process. We understand the hurt and the pain the family are feeling, and we`re doing everything we can to move as quickly but as efficiently as possible.
GRACE: I know you are, Lieutenant. I know you are. Do you have -- you`ve been in the building. Do you have any idea how he got in? I`m hearing a million different reports, Lieutenant -- that he shot his way in, that he used his mother`s access card to get in, that he got buzzed in, that he broke in. How did this guy get in the school building?
VANCE: You know, that`s a question that we are going to answer. We have not answered that question as of yet. There are a number of witnesses that we`re going to speak to that, hopefully, will cast some information on that question and be able to help us answer that question. That`s a very important question because that building is secured.
GRACE: You know, I`m glad to hear that, Lieutenant, that the building is secured. So what I`m interpreting you saying is that they had a security system of some sort, that the building was secure, but somehow, he managed to get in. It`s not like they had the front door wide open for anybody to walk in that wanted to. So that`s good to know, that the school was taking the precautions that it could take.
But you know, Lieutenant, we ask, Why, why, why, how, how, how? Some things you can`t plan for. No matter how much you try to protect your children, yourself from, you can`t always do that.
How close are they, do you think, to finishing processing the scene? And how many people are in there working on the scene?
VANCE: Well, there are several teams of troopers that are in there that are actually working on the scene and have been working on it for a number of hours. The medical examiner`s on the scene.
Suffice it to say it`s a long process. We`re doing it as quickly and efficiently as we possibly can, but it truly is a long process that`s under way.
The most important, as we`ve spoken of, is identifying the victims and certainly getting that part done for the families. That`s our priority right now. Certainly, the second priority, as you`ve alluded to, is that we need to formulate that puzzle and answer every single question as to how and why this tragedy occurred.
GRACE: With me, Lieutenant J. Paul Vance with the Connecticut State Police. Lieutenant, one thing many of us have been wondering about is, is there evidence -- we`ve been told that as many as 100 rounds were fired off. Is there evidence that the shooter just shot wildly and happened to shoot children, or did he actually target children and intentionally shoot children?
VANCE: Well, that`s for our investigators to make that determination. I can tell you there were a number of rounds that were fired, and you know, we`ll examine each and every one. They`ll look at the trajectory. They`ll look at the location of the deceased. And again, it`s a painstakingly slow process, but we want to answer that question. We want to do everything we can to try to answer that question. And we certainly will do everything possible.
GRACE: And Lieutenant, I know that there had to be a lot of people that risked their own lives to save the children. How did the teachers get the children out of the school, the ones that survived? And were they getting them out while the shooter was still shooting? Did they all take cover? How did they get the children out?
VANCE: Well, I can`t go into specific detail, but I can tell you their emergency plan worked. It was in place. As soon as the officers got to -- responded to the school, we did what we call an active shooter entry, and that is we immediately went into the school when we got teams there and we rescued many children, many employees, many staff members and got them out safely. But we encountered the tragedy that we encountered and were able to do nothing about that.
GRACE: With me also, in addition to Lieutenant J. Paul Vance with the Connecticut State Police, Steven Kalb, a reporter with the Connecticut Radio Network.
Steven, what are your sources telling you about how the teachers tried to protect the students?
KALB: I`m sorry. So far, we`ve been told up until this point that the teachers herd the -- the plan was to herd students into corners of rooms, and I`ve heard from one person also under desks, although that is somewhat unconfirmed. But the idea was to keep them away from doors and windows, lock the doors, and that would keep the kids safe.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Javier in Colorado. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I don`t understand why we can`t do anything about these semiautomatic rifles and guns. I mean, the only persons that should be carrying these are military and law enforcement. I mean, how many times do we have to experience these incidents before something`s done, you know? I`m a single dad with a 7-year-old girl, and I see stuff like this, it just tears me up. My heart goes out to these families.
GRACE: Out to you, Mike Brooks. He`s right. Respond.
BROOKS: Yes, Nancy. You know, every time something like this happens, you know, again, the discussion about weapons and who should have weapons, who should not have weapons, it always, you know, rears its ugly head again.
But I tell you, Nancy, you know, in this particular case, these weapons apparently were purchased legally by the shooter`s mother. So I`m sure it`s something that we`re going to be discussing over the next week, probably even longer, is about these weapons and how they were obtained.
GRACE: Now joining me is Rhonda Cullens. This is a very dear friend of the shooter`s mother. And let me remind you the shooter`s mother has been found dead, as well, the mom a teacher at this school, the mom`s name Nancy Lanza. Rhonda Cullens, thank you for being with us.
RHONDA CULLENS, FRIEND AND NEIGHBOR OF SUSPECT`S MOTHER (via telephone): Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Rhonda, tell me about Nancy Lanza and your immediate reaction when you heard what had happened. Did you know the shooter, as well?
CULLENS: Well, I live about a block away from Nancy.
GRACE: Yes.
CULLENS: And we used to plan our neighborhood bunko (ph) group together. It`s a dice game that we would get together monthly for. I wouldn`t characterize myself as a very close friend of hers, but I knew her. And she was a very nice lady. I mean, she was just, you know, one of the other neighbors.
And she didn`t talk, you know, a lot about her kids because we were just kind of in a social little club-like thing, but sometimes, it would come up. As soon as I heard Ryan Lanza, though, I immediately knew, it was, like, Oh, my gosh, that`s Nancy`s son. And I was in total shock.
And then when I came home this afternoon, some of my neighbors were up on her street, and they had it blocked off. And they said that they -- somebody had said that there might be a body up there. And I`m just going, Oh, my gosh, it might be Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was terrifying. I`m still terrified. I think I`m still in shock about it all. I still don`t know everything that happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There has been a shooting at an elementary school, an elementary school in Sandy Hook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police now telling us a number of people have been shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen children that were pronounced dead at the school. There were two that were transported to area hospitals and pronounced dead at area hospitals. And there were six adults pronounced dead at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We hear, like, lots of bangs. We heard screaming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have friends who work there and who have children in there, and I can`t imagine how they feel. I know I`m scared to death!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shooter is deceased, is deceased in the school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t believe a small town like this, we`d ever have anything like this happen, and to be in an elementary school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. At this hour, we know 27 dead. We know the shooter was connected to this elementary school through his mother, who taught there.
Joining me right now at the school in Newtown, Connecticut, Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent. Susan, what more do we know tonight?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, we are slowly but surely learning little bits and pieces of information about what happened. Let`s concentrate first on what little we know, really, about the shooter in this case, Adam Lanza, only 20 years old. He had an older brother, 24 years old, who lived in Hoboken, New Jersey.
And his mother, as you said, was a school teacher here. Now, his mother`s body was found at a residence here in this area. We believe either she lived there, the both of them lived there -- that is to say, the shooter and his mother.
But in any case, we know that Adam Lanza, age 20, came to that school with at least three weapons. Our sources tell us that two of the weapons were handguns, a Glock and something called a Sig Sauer. They also found a semiautomatic weapon called a Bushmaster in a car that was parked outside the school.
Those guns were not owned by the shooter in this case. Believe it or not, Nancy, authorities -- our sources tell us that they belonged to his mother. So we`re still trying to piece all of that together.
Now, we know that Adam, the shooter`s, older brother -- or rather Ryan, who is the older brother of the shooter -- he was brought in for questioning from his apartment in Hoboken, New Jersey. And authorities were trying to find out from him, What can you tell us about him?
We don`t know exactly what he said. We understand there may be some personality disorders, according to our sources, with the shooter in this case. Still trying to get to the bottom of that. That brother who has been questioned is not being called a suspect at this time. We don`t know whether he has been released from police custody yet.
And finally, we also know that investigators have been talking to the father of these two young men. This is someone who was divorced from Nancy Lanza, the mother of the both of them, who was a teacher at that school who was found dead at the family residence here in this area.
We know that he is divorced, but he remarried. He still lives in this area -- that is to say, the ex-husband of Nancy. And so police have also naturally been talking to him, as well, to try to find out what might have led to this.
We don`t know yet whether they are examining the computer, for example, which is often the case. We don`t know whether he left any notes behind. I`m sure they`re still looking for -- into all kinds of social media. We know there have been fits and starts in that direction, Nancy.
But we know that authorities are working very hard on this, obviously. Back to you.
GRACE: Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent, is joining me there live on the scene, and she`s taking your calls. Susan, what can you tell me, what, if anything, about the shooter`s girlfriend?
CANDIOTTI: Well, we had some information earlier that they were looking, trying to find her, but my sources tell me that this is a nonstarter, that no one has been reported missing. If they have located -- if there is such a person, they`ve located her. We don`t have any additional information on that right now.
I will say from -- I also wanted to add this. Just a few minutes ago, I was able to speak with a little girl who is in I think in the 2nd or 3rd grade here. She was here with her parents. She was inside the school when this happened. Got there about 9:30 in the morning.
And she explained that they heard some gunshots and that the teacher rose to the occasion and quickly huddled the students into a corner of the classroom to try to protect them. And they waited there and waited there until, finally, a police officer came to the classroom and said, It`s OK for you to leave. I was told that she left at a different entrance in the rear of the school building, and therefore did not see any of the carnage that had occurred in another part of the building, Nancy.
GRACE: Susan Candiotti, some of the insiders are telling us that the other children were told as they were being led out to keep their eyes closed, to close their eyes and follow the person in front of them and keep walking so they would not see the dead bodies and pools of blood that they were walking right beside. Is that true?
CANDIOTTI: Well, that I don`t know. I don`t know. I, naturally, wouldn`t be surprised. The children were brought out of different entrances and gently told to walk in a line. And I`m sure you`ve seen those pictures, just heartbreaking, of the small children putting their hands on each other`s shoulder as they walked out of that school building. Just a heart-breaking, horrific, shocking experience for all of them that they`re trying to come to grips with.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The account of a young boy, said to be delivering an attendance report to the office at Sandy Hook Elementary School when the shootings took place, is surreal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found some of the boys going past the hall that I was right next to, and then the teacher pulled me into her classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t believe a small town like this would ever have anything like this happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main objective was to evacuate as quickly and efficiently as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had to hide in the closet, and they were quiet. I mean, the children, obviously, were very shaken. They were crying in the closet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She heard -- she described it as a pop, pop, pop in the hall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, we are not signing off in just a few moments, as we normally do. We are staying there on the scene and bringing you the news as we get it.
We are taking your calls. Out to Lisa, North Carolina. Hi, Lisa. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, I would like to say that our prayers are with the families tonight in Newtown.
GRACE: Amen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have two questions -- well, one question. Number one, does anyone know who the suspect was living with?
GRACE: You know, I was just talking to Susan Candiotti about that, and she said that he was either living with his mother or with some other roommate, and they`re trying to determine that. I know right now that they are looking at a home in New Jersey.
Out to you, Beth Karas. What do we know? Who was he living with?
KARAS: Well, actually, we don`t have any confirmation -- at least, I don`t. I couldn`t hear Susan Candiotti`s report. I`m not hooked up to hear what she had to say. But I had heard that there were two people at least with his brother people are talking to and (ph) living with. So he lived with two people. I`m not sure that the suspect, the shooter, was living with roommates.
GRACE: With me now again is special guest, Lynn Wasik. Her daughter survived. Lynn, thank you for being with us. When you got this message and your husband said, It`s her school, what did you do then?
WASIK: Got in my car and I got to her school as quickly as I could, and knowing -- just knowing and hoping that she was safe and sound. And I honestly don`t remember much of the drive. It was only about 12 minutes, and I really don`t remember much of the drive. And I just was focused on, you know, Please, please keep her safe. Please keep her safe. Please keep the children safe, and get me there safe and let me be with her and my husband and let this kind of -- you know, try to make sure that, you know, we are together and we can be together.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LT. J. PAUL VANCE, CONNECTICUT STATE POLLICE: Eighteen children who were pronounced dead on the scene. Two children were transported to area hospitals and were pronounced dead at the hospital. Six adults were pronounced dead at the scene. Shooter was also pronounced dead at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the worst massacres in this country`s history.
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I was a little scared. I felt different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gunman was on a killing spree, killing the principal, a counselor, child after child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beautiful, beautiful children who had simply come to school to learn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shootings happening on the Sandy Hook Elementary School.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two bodies laying in the hallway in a pool of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a very violent scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the cops said it was the worst thing he`s ever seen in his entire career.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: We are live and taking your calls. We are there at the scene. Before I go back to Lynn Wasik and Susan Candiotti, Dr. Ramani Durvasula, , a clinical psychologist.
Dr. Ramani, everyone is asking, why, why, why? What could have been the motive? I want to hear your thinking.
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Our problem is that this is so awful, we can`t come up with a why. One thing we want to know was -- was there any conflict between mother and son? That seems like one of the simpler explanations.
We also don`t know what his mental history was. That`s going to give us some insight here. But this is such an extreme example of some of the most violent behavior we`ve ever seen, that even with those pieces, I`m not convinced we`ll get a handle on this one.
GRACE: With me is Dr. Ramani Durvasula.
I want to get back to Lynn Wasik, who`s daughter was in that school building, raced to the scene.
When you got to the scene, Lynn, what did you see?
LYNN WASIK, 8-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER SURVIVED SCHOOL SHOOTING (via telephone): We actually got -- we weren`t actually allowed to go to the school. We had to go to the firehouse which was prior -- in front of the school. And when we had gotten there, it was just -- it was -- there is no -- there is no word in the dictionary nor that I could ever even describe the scene that I had seen when I was there.
It was -- I just wanted to find our daughter, and I wanted to just hug her, and I wanted to just make sure I knew that she was safe.
But there`s no words that would ever describe what you would see, and it was the most out of -- it was a nightmare. I don`t even know if I can tell you. It`s indescribable.
GRACE: So you get to the fire station, and I guess there had to be a lot of other cars there and a lot of other parents going in there. How did they reunite you with your little girl?
WASIK: Actually, my husband had gotten there first and was with her, and he had sent me a message -- text message saying, I have Alexis, she`s alive and she`s OK. And so I said, OK, and I just kept -- and as I had gotten closer, other parents knew that I was Alexis` mom and said, we know she`s OK, just go into the building and you`ll see her. And that`s where I was able to find her with my husband.
GRACE: Lynn, how is she tonight? Has she described what happened to you?
WASIK: She`s been a trooper. We`re very open and we`re very honest with her. She`s being eight, you can`t really be very evasive. So, she`s had questions. We`ve answered the best that we could. Obviously, it`s on a television everywhere and every channel.
We`re just trying to, you know, keep our focus with her, keep our focus with our families and friends that we do know in the school system. She`s been -- you know, she`s been OK. She hadn`t eaten much. She just told me she had a stomach bug, which is very, very understandable. So we`re just trying to make sure that we keep fluids in her and just keep giving her lots of hugs and kisses.
GRACE: All I can say is thank God she survived this.
WASIK: Yes. I cannot imagine your drive trying to get to that fire station and see if your girl was there. I cannot even imagine, as you said, the drive there was a complete blur.
Also with me is Craig Scott. His sister Rachel killed in the Columbine shootings.
Craig, you have just heard the story of Lynn Wasik, who drove as fast as she could to get there at her daughter, her little girl, her 8-year-old girl was alive. Do you recall the day that you found out about Rachel?
CRAIG SCOTT, SISTER RACHEL KILLED IN COLUMBINE SHOOTINGS: Yes, I recall the day that the Columbine shooting happened. I was in the school library where most of the shooting happened and saw two friends killed next to me and there are 10 students killed around me and I also lost Rachel. And so, I understand both -- you know, what some of the people that were in the terrifying situation, as well as having lost someone. But losing a child is so much harder than probably losing a sibling.
GRACE: I can`t imagine what this mom is going through at this hour, and you have experienced it firsthand.
Alexis Weed joining me from Newtown.
Weigh in, Alexis. What more are they telling you? What are you learning?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, one of the things we`re learning is there was an eyewitness inside this school who was meeting at the time with the principal and the psychologist who we learned are now dead -- was meeting at a school with them regarding one of her children that attends the school. She supposedly went out and peeked out into the hallway, ducked under a table in the room when she was in that meeting, and then she was one of the people who called 911, Nancy. She said she saw a pool of blood in the hallway there where the principal and the psychologist were lying dead.
GRACE: Alexis, the police apparently took the shooter`s father in for questioning. What do we know?
WEED: Nancy, they did also take the father in. They said that the father is there for general questioning. Not -- also not a suspect at this point, neither are they saying Ryan Lanza, not a suspect. They were taken in just for general questioning.
But, Nancy, the father and the mother, Nancy Lanza, they`ve been divorced for quite some time. It`s my understanding from talking to residents around Nancy Lanza`s home that it was a father who moved out of that home where Adam Lanza and Ryan Lanza were raised, where Nancy`s body, we`re hearing, was found.
GRACE: Back to the scene. Rita Cosby joining me from Newtown.
Rita, we`re hearing the father went in for questioning. Susan Candiotti told me the brother had been taken in for questioning, but he was actually handcuffed. We saw the video of the brother being taken in for questioning in handcuffs.
Now, they`re saying he`s not a suspect. I guess they did that because at the time they didn`t know he wasn`t a suspect.
So what more do we know? We know there had to be -- there had to be something going on between the shooter and his mother for him to murder his mother and then go to the school, possibly using her entrance ID. I don`t know how he got in the school.
The lieutenant told me they had a secure school. So he got in somehow, all right? So there had to be something horrible going on between him and his mother. What more do we know?
We know about the father, the brother, the mother who is dead, I assume, by shooting. What more do we know, Rita?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, we know in terms of the neighborhood. I was talking to people to find out exactly that question, Nancy. Was there some issue with Adam? Clearly, there was something terrible.
But I asked, was he a troublemaker in the neighborhood? And people I talk to, I can give you also -- I exclusively got this information that was in a neighborhood bulletin, sort of neighbors talking about neighbors.
Here`s a little bit about Adam Lanza, the shooter -- loved soccer, skateboarding, video games. This is the things that he liked that neighbors knew about him. But they said they did not know him in the neighborhood about as a troublemaker. Don`t remember the cops going over to the house, any priors.
The other ting, I want to answer your second question, too, Nancy, because I talked to people who were on the phone with other people who were in the school. Everybody knows everybody here.
Two people told me -- and again, this is not from officials -- but two people told me that they were told and one person actually heard some glass break, and they were told that the shooter actually shot through the door and then put his hand through and that`s how he got into the school. That`s according to two people who were there at the scene at the school.
GRACE: You know what? That`s incredible. I`m surprised some type of an alarm didn`t go off when glass is shot through and you reach in and open up the door.
COSBY: Yes. It is surprising, but people did hear the glass break. And, in fact, I talked to a woman who thought one of her best friends was in the school. She said, I heard the glass break, then the announcement went off, and, in fact, that`s when all heck broke loose. But it was that glass breaking almost before the bullets that triggered something suspicious.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) lawyers with me, Mickey Sherman and Alex Sanchez, both renowned defense attorneys.
First to you, Mick. Why did they have the brother in handcuffs? We now know the brother was not a suspect, so what was that about?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I guess they didn`t know what they were dealing with. They didn`t know whether he was involved or not involved.
GRACE: Yes.
SHERMAN: And as a precaution, they put him in handcuffs. Which was unfortunate, but I think it`s probably a minor detail at this point.
GRACE: You know, Alex, we understand that people have been questioning yet another male. I don`t know who it is, not the brother, not the father. What does that say to you, Alex?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It says to me the police have taken a lot of precautions to investigate any outstanding leads they may have. I think they`re interested in finding out, is he connected with a group, is he connected with an Internet group, some other group that could possibly unleash some type of violence somewhere else? And I think they`re doing the right thing and they`re taking the necessary precautions there.
GRACE: To Dr. Vincent Dimaio, former chief medical examiner, Bexar County, forensic pathologist.
Dr. Dimaio, thank you for being with us. We know that 27 victims. We also know the three types of weapons that were used, one of them possibly having been found out in the car.
Tell me this -- why is it taking so long, doctor, to ID the bodies?
DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY (via telephone): I think it`s not just the ID. But they are, you know, trying to see where the shell casings are in relation to the body, whether the bullet holes in the floor line up, with the position of where the body is.
The identification could be fairly rapid by just taking one of those digital cameras and taking photographs and doing that, you know, unless the body is too bloody. But I think it`s all the other details and they`re just lumping it in under the term, you know, identification.
GRACE: Yes. Yes.
Alexis Weed joining me there on the scene. Alexis, explain to me how much longer do they think they`ll be processing the scene, and I can`t imagine what those parents are going through with their children still lying there in that school.
I think I`ve still got Alexis. Liz, is Alexis` satellite still up? OK.
Tell me when you get her back.
In the meantime, out to the lines, Crystal in Iowa.
Hi, Crystal. What`s your question?
CRYSTAL, CALLER FROM IOWA: Yes. My question is, did he have a mental illness, and I also have a comment. I think that anybody who has a family member who has a mental illness in the home shouldn`t be allowed to have a gun.
GRACE: You know, Rita Cosby, what do we know? We`re hearing that from multiple reports about some type of learning disability or developmental disability or some type of mental illness. What do we know?
COSBY: Yes. We have heard a couple different reports at this point - - nothing confirmed, Nancy -- but several different reports talking about some sort of psychological disorder. The other thing, there was some really early reports early on coming from the brother. Apparently, he was putting messages on Facebook questioning about his brother`s mental capability. So there is something there, we just haven`t been able to get a handle on it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really get the emotions just pouring out. You can`t believe the kind of tragedy that they are feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t even seem real. It just does not seem, like it`s even possible. It`s like, you know, whether you read it in the paper or see it in the news, you`re like, oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was running, obviously, to the school. Kids were evacuated. Most of the kids were evacuated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s 20 parents who were just told their children are dead. It was awful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls.
Joining me there on the scene is Steven Kalb. Steven is a reporter with Connecticut Radio Network.
Steven, the way you describe to your sources are telling -- or what your sources are telling you how this unfolded, please tell me that again how the guy got in the building and an argument ensued?
STEVEN KALB, REPORTER, CONNECTICUT RADIO NETWORK (via telephone): The way we get it is he got into the building. There is some question, I should add, as to exactly when the building becomes secured. I`m told it becomes secured at 9:30. The shots were reported at 9:40. So there is a timeline question there still to be answered.
Regardless, the reports we get say that the principal -- there was an argument that ensued with the principal at which point someone, we`re told, turned on an intercom. Some teachers heard some obscenities being broadcast and then moved kids, decided there was something wrong and moved kids into safety.
GRACE: With me is Steve Kalb with the Connecticut Radio Network.
To Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN`s "DR. DREW."
Dr. Drew, so many schools have exactly that security system where the doors open for parents to bring their children in to a certain point, then the door is locked. And, of course, most of these schools have a glass door, so you can see who is out there, you can see in and out. That sounds exactly like what happened.
He either got in with his mom`s pass or possibly what Rita reported, her sources are telling her, he shot through and got in.
Bottom line, it`s not like the school has some lackadaisical plan attitude security. They didn`t. They had a plan.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: No, that`s right.
GRACE: They executed the plan. So, where does -- where does that leave the rest of us, you know, that are trying to do everything to protect our children? What do we do, just stay home and hide under the bed?
PINSKY: It feels like that, Nancy, doesn`t it? It`s such a shattering experience for our sense of safety and well-being, and again, our children as well as the parents of the children are feeling the same way.
But the reality is, I suspect what we need to look at is more the term mental illness as come up here a number of times so far tonight. The question is that balance between the rights of people with mental illness versus the rights of the rest of us. When can you intervene and hold somebody against their will? What kind of evidence do you need to do so?
I suspect we may find there might have been opportunity to contain this gentleman before all this happened, because there often is. Unfortunately, for instance, I`ll refer you to the Colorado/Aurora shooting. Very clearly, a psychiatrist said do something. For some reason, it didn`t happen.
GRACE: Interesting, Dr. Drew, no offense that you`re calling this guy a gentleman. I don`t know that I would agree with you on that.
Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent joining me there in Newtown.
Susan, what more do we know?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that authorities are still -- may know much more than they`re letting on right now. That`s what I find very interesting at this time, that one of the many things. They`re not releasing yet more information.
So, we`re working our sources to find out, as you said, more about Adam Lanza, the suspected shooter in this case that authorities have not identified, 20 years old. They talked to his brother to find out more information. They talked to his father to try to find out more information about why he came to the school armed with three weapons and killed so many people, according to police.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Witnesses up here said they heard a tremendous number of shots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do know from sources they recovered at least three weapons from the scene, two of them handguns and another one a semiautomatic weapon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All three of these weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother, who was a teacher at that school, was found dead in her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Brenda in Michigan. Hi, Brenda, what`s your question?
I think I`ve got Brenda in Michigan with me. Hi, dear, are you there?
OK, I`m going to go out to Cheri.
Hi, Cheri, what`s your question? Hi, what`s your question, dear?
CHERI, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi, you`re my idol.
I`m very concerned about this and scared. It`s called -- I know the answer. It`s called COD. It`s a game "Call of Duty".
My son has a bunch of friends and they`re extremely aggressive. They play on line, and the goal is the more people they kill and shoot. And I heard that one of Adam`s interests is video games, and I`m really scared this is going to become a huge epidemic, and I want to put a stop to it.
I want to make people aware that we have to limit our children to this. It`s very aggressive and there is a new one --
PINSKY: Well, actually, what you`re saying, you know, I want to follow up on what she`s saying.
Liz, let me see that military vest and that black outfit, that military outfit he was wearing.
To Steve Kalb, reporter with Connecticut Radio, Steven, what do we know? Isn`t this very much like what the caller is saying?
KALB: It would sound and appear to be -- although having not played the game, I`d hold off. But my initial reaction would say it sounds like it. The military vest that you`re showing on screen and the black battle fatigues are like you would see in those kind of video games.
PINSKY: Rita Cosby, weigh in.
COSBY: The one thing we know for sure, Adam Lanza -- the caller is absolutely correct. He was very big in video games. So much so when the family put in their interest in the family sort of community flyer thing that I`ve got a copy of, one of his key interests with a big star next to it says video gaming. So he was very interested in those types of things. I don`t know about "Call of Duty", but definitely video games in general.
GRACE: To Mickey and Alex joining me.
Mickey, we`ve seen so many cases like this and there`s no good answer. There`s no good answer for any of us.
SHERMAN: There is no shortage of disturbed people in this world, and that`s always going to be the case. The problem is we`ve got to get the guns out of their hands.
GRACE: Everyone, our prayers to Connecticut.
Now stay tuned for "DR. DREW."
END
