Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Newtown Shooter Reportedly Lived in Windowless Basement

Aired December 18, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Newtown, Connecticut. The nation in shock when a crazed gunman dressed in black goes on a deadly rampage at a local K through 4 elementary school, leaving 26 dead, most of them little children. The shooter`s mother, Nancy Lanza, doting on her son.

He repays her by blasting her four times in the head as she lay asleep in her PJs in their $1.6 million home before then unleashing on helpless children with a gun she taught him to use. Mom planning to move with her son, described as near genius, for engineering school.

Bombshell tonight. Crime scene tape wrapped around the Lanza home. At this hour, we learn the shooter lived out bloodthirsty fantasies in a windowless basement bunker dedicated to violent video games and gun worship, spending countless hours playing Call of Duty in the basement of his dead mother`s home. He decorated the walls with posters of guns and military hardware.

And tonight, we learn Lanza only stops the bloodshed when he shoots himself in the head with a single bullet just before cops could stop him. At this hour, autopsies on the shooter and his mother complete, relatives planning to transport the bodies and bury them in secret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sandy Hook school. Caller`s indicating she thinks there`s someone shooting in the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam Lanza used an All right-15.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both mother and son have been to target practice, did go to gun ranges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are trying to put the pieces together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got to determine how and why this happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve been examining computers that were found at the home. They were smashed to smithereens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bodies of the mom and her son. Autopsies were completed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were there any warning signs?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He enjoyed playing video games.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One was Warcraft 3, where as the ad says, survival is a matter of strategy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toxicology tests were performed to determine whether, in fact, he was on any kinds of medication that may have triggered this violent outburst.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had some neurological developmental issues.

GRACE: You are absolutely confirming he had Asperger`s?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no indication by his behavior that he would carry out a heinous act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you now think of him as an evil person?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The events that he did that day may have been evil, but before then, he was a good kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Highland township, the perfect son, valedictorian, star athlete, accused in the vicious murder of his own mother, Ruth. Tonight, a jury hands down a verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the people of the state of Michigan versus Jeffrey Pyne, we the jury find the defendant guilty of second degree murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brutally murdering his own mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you do anything at all to hurt your mom?

JEFFREY PYNE, ACCUSED OF MURDERING HIS MOTHER: No. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In any way, shape or form?

PYNE: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any arguments with your mom?

PYNE: I didn`t say anything hurtful to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. The nation is shocked when a crazed gunman goes on a deadly rampage at a local elementary school, leaving 26 dead, most of them children.

At this hour, crime scene tape wrapped around the Lanza home. Tonight we learn the shooter lived out bloodthirsty fantasies in a windowless basement bunker dedicated to violent video games and gun worship. At this hour, the autopsies on the shooter and mother complete, as relatives plan to transport the two bodies and bury them in secret.

Straight out to Rita Cosby standing by in front of the Lanza home. Rita, what`s happening?

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, the latest is we know investigators are getting some substantial information in the case. We know that they have retrieved parts of the computer, a smashed-up computer hard drive, and we know that they`re getting some good, significant leads, is what I`m told.

The other thing, we`re getting a portrait painted of the killer. We are told -- this is through the British "Sun" newspaper. They interviewed a plumber who was in the house and they say that Adam Lanza`s bedroom, which was a bunker, as you describe it, in the basement -- plastered on the walls were posters of guns, of tanks, and that he spent hours upon hours doing video games and watching television in a windowless basement in the house right behind me.

GRACE: OK. You`re getting this information from people that have been in the home.

Out to Susan Candiotti joining me there in front of the Lanza home -- Susan Candiotti, CNN national correspondent. Susan, what can you tell me?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, I know that investigators are telling us that they`re having a difficult time trying to piece together that smashed hard drive. Presumably, it was destroyed by the shooter in this case.

I guess he was trying to cover his tracks or his digital footprint before he went on his horrible shooting spree, starting with killing his mother here in their own home, as you said, Nancy, shooting her four times in the head, according to the medical examiner, while she was sleeping in her bedroom, before going on to gather up his weapons and go over to that school where he shot and killed 20 children and six adults.

But investigators, while they`re having a hard time trying to get this hard drive put back together in pieces, they`re not giving up. And obviously, they want to learn as much as they can from that computer by visiting whatever Web sites he was at, any chat rooms he might have visited, anyone he might have been talking with, e-mails and the like.

But so far, I`m told they have not found any kind of separate writing or diary or any note left behind that would have indicated why he did what he did, Nancy.

GRACE: Joining me right now is a very special guest, Gene Rosen. Gene took in many of the children during the Sandy Hook shooting. He is a Newtown resident. Gene, thank you for being with us.

GENE ROSEN, NEWTOWN RESIDENT: You`re very welcome. Thank you for having me.

GRACE: Sir, what happened? How did you happen to speak to these little children?

ROSEN: I was going to breakfast at a local diner. And I was ready to get into my car, and I looked down toward the end of my lawn and I saw six children. I thought that was so peculiar because they were sitting in kind of a semicircle and they looked OK.

And then I saw a man talking very loudly and harshly to them, saying, It`s going to be OK. It`s going to be OK. And I thought he was talking in a very loud manner, and I thought maybe it`s part of a skit or a play and the kids were just pretending.

And as I approached them, I began to see something really different. They were crying and they looked terrified, and they looked out of breath. They looked totally tired. And the school bus driver identified herself, said, Oh, there`s been an incident at the school.

And so I asked them into the house. I brought them into my house and I sat them down. And I went upstairs to my office where my grandchildren`s toys are, all the stuffed animals, and I grabbed as many as I could and I brought them down.

And they were very quiet and were not saying a lot. And I offered them juice, and they seemed to calm down a lot -- or rather a little. Time went by, and after a few minutes, we went to a different room, and then they seemed grounded enough and safe enough to begin to talk. And I was astounded at what they said.

They said, I can`t go back to the school. I can`t go back to the school. I don`t have a teacher. I don`t have a teacher. And then the other boy said, Mrs. Soto, my teacher`s been shot.

I -- I could not fathom this. I could not imagine what they were talking about. I did not -- I did not correct them or ask them any questions. I let them keep talking, and they kept talking. And one of the children, maybe one of the girls, said, There was blood in her mouth, and then she fell down. And then the children escaped.

And I don`t know how they fled that, but I think that beautiful 27- year-old teacher somehow was able to distract and sacrifice herself, and the kids got away.

I was -- I was dumbfounded. I just could not take this in. I could not -- I know they were not deceiving me, but I could not take it in.

GRACE: With me, everyone, is Gene Rosen, who actually took in many of the children that lived through the Sandy Hook shooting. At the time when you brought them into your home, Gene, you didn`t know what had gone down.

ROSEN: I had no idea. I absolutely was without a clue. I had no idea.

GRACE: When you heard the child say, She had blood in her mouth and then she fell down, she was talking about one of the teachers?

ROSEN: They were talking about their teacher and they named her as Mrs. Soto. And then the two boys said, He had a big gun and a small gun. He had a big gun and a small gun.

They were talking in this very staccato, very pressured way. And they were weeping. They were crying so much. And they were saying, We can`t go back to the school. We can`t go back to the school. We don`t have a teacher. Our teacher is dead.

GRACE: So they knew, then, Gene, exactly what had happened. They all saw what happened.

ROSEN: I think -- I think they witnessed the execution of this beautiful 27-year-old woman! They obviously loved her! They kept talking about her! Until I saw the fatality, the casualty list, I did not want to believe it. I said to my wife, They haven`t released the list yet. I hope that lady`s not on the list. And she was on the list.

GRACE: Gene, how did they happen to be out in your front yard, essentially sitting on the curb? Can you show us where?

ROSEN: Well, they were just in front of my house. I live right next to the school.

GRACE: Oh, I see.

ROSEN: I live right next to the firehouse. And there`s a road that goes from the school, and then you take a right and there`s a firehouse, the Sandy Hook Fire Department. And then there`s my house.

And the teacher -- the driver, the bus driver, must have picked them up, maybe in her own personal car, saw them running. But they never told me the details of how they fled.

I`ve talked to the father of one of the boys, and today I was graced (ph) by talking to the grandparent of one of the little girls. And I told him that I wanted to be with these children and talk to them and read to them and show them the light because we were -- we were in the dark.

It was hard to believe what had happened. And he said she still has the little stuffed animal that I gave he. It was a little Dalmatian, a little toy dog. And my knees buckled. I -- I -- I just want to be with these children because...

GRACE: You stated, Gene, that some of them seemed like they were actually out of breath, that they were inconsolable and crying.

ROSEN: I think, Nancy, that they had been running for part of the way, and that`s why they seemed out of breath.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got to determine how and why this happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are still searching for a connection as to why he chose to carry out this massacre there. The only person who could have potentially testified as to what was going on in her son`s mind, Nancy Lanza, was shot and killed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can only speak for myself. And in my own case, knowing my son, sometimes for no apparent reason, he will just turn into this absolute raging -- you`d have to see it to believe it. It would be a terrible thing for me to own a firearm. I don`t feel comfortable allowing Michael to play first-person shooter games.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So far, nothing adds up to a motive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to do everything that it takes to paint a clear picture as to exactly how and why this tragedy occurred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. With us, Gene Rosen, a psychologist, as fate would have it, that saw little children out at the edge of his front yard. They had apparently run from the shooting, and they clearly saw at least one of the executions go down in the Sandy Hook elementary school.

Also joining me there on the scene, Susan Candiotti, Rita Cosby. Also with us, Steven Kalb. We are all taking your calls.

Steven Kalb, reporter, Connecticut Radio Network, what can you tell me?

STEVEN KALB, CONNECTICUT RADIO NETWORK (via telephone): As of the circumstances as of the moment, we still don`t know yet -- while the toxicology reports are done, they will not be back for the next couple of days, so we won`t have a full knowledge yet of whether or not Adam Lanza was on any drugs at all for his ailment. We`ll find that out later on.

GRACE: Alexis Weed joining us from Newtown. Alexis, we`re learning that it all only ended when the shooter sees cops coming for him and shoots himself with a single bullet to the head. That`s how he died, right, Alexis?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. And it was with that handgun, not with that long rifle that we`ve heard he used when he went after all those young children.

GRACE: You know, Gene Rosen is with us, everyone, there in Newtown. Gene, the way -- having worked with children for many, many years as a felony prosecutor and trying to unlock what they`re saying, didn`t I hear you say, Gene, that one of the children said the shooter had two guns?

ROSEN: He did it say that. The boy said, He had a big gun and a small gun. He had a big gun and a small gun. They repeated that. They repeated that.

GRACE: You know, when you were...

ROSEN: I think they had observed...

GRACE: Go ahead.

ROSEN: I think they had observed the carnage with great precision, which is quite amazing.

GRACE: Gene, I`m just trying to take in what they said to you and I`m trying to decipher it and interpret it. I know that me just reporting on the story and hearing about it, I`ve had nothing but one dream after the next where I`m racing to the school to get my two 5-year-olds, and I can`t find them, because I keep thinking about that story where they brought the parents to the firehouse and they went, Here are the children, and then at the end, there were parents left, and they go, There`s no more children.

I`m wondering what effect this is going to have on, for instance, the children that you counseled, that you took into your home.

ROSEN: Nancy, I want to be with these children. I want to read to them. I want to show there`s light away from the darkness! I want to be their grampy, their Uncle Gene, whoever. I want to spend time with them, as much as they will allow and their parents will allow. I want them to come to my home.

I just want to love them because they were very brave and very sweet, and their innocence has been torn away. I know it`ll take time. I want to be -- I want to be related to them for the rest of my life. That`s my goal. That`s my purpose and that`s my prayer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are learning more each day that may explain what led 20-year-old Adam Lanza to launch a vicious attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators were able to find a computer. They`re trying to piece together the shards to, hopefully, see what kind of e-mails he was sending, what kind of Web sites he was going to.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, apparently...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, more trying to put together the pieces of the puzzle that sometimes are not fitting. Rita Cosby joining me with Susan Candiotti there in Newtown. Rita, what have we learned about the mom? A lot.

COSBY: Yes, we`ve learned a whole bunch of details, some of this coming from Marsha Lanza. This is the shooter`s aunt. And she was showing a couple e-mails to "The Daily Mail." And according to these e-mails -- it basically talks about her saying time is running out, that she is looking to move out of the area, that she wants to take her son somewhere else.

Also saying that she has traveled to a whole bunch of different cities, in fact, different countries. She talks about going to Canada and going to England and saying that there are some secrets in the family. And also, according to information from Marsha Lanza -- again, this is according to her -- she says that Nancy, the mother, had MS. This was the first time that we have heard this information.

GRACE: So I`m guessing, Rita, that when you`re saying the mom felt like time was running out it`s because she was concerned about her own MS and she wanted desperately to get her son situated in college, try to get him through engineering school, get him situated instead of out of the basement, Susan Candiotti, down there playing, what is it, Call of Duty, and putting up more gun posters on his wall.

CANDIOTTI: Yes, Nancy, I have no information on that, that newspaper report, at all. I`ve not been able to confirm that information, so I will not address that. But I certainly do know that they`re looking at every possible family member that they can to try to learn more information about this man and his mom.

GRACE: You`re right, Susan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re learning new information today at the home where Adam Lanza shot and killed his mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was her son`s first victim, even though she went to great lengths trying to help him with his difficulties.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sources are telling me that they are working on a number of angles, specifically focusing on the medical and mental history of Adam Lanza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did have Asperger`s syndrome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like many kids that have that, he was very withdrawn emotionally.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trying to find out what Web sites he visited. Did he talk to anybody? Was he in any chat rooms, leave any messages?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who knew the Newtown shooter say that he enjoyed playing video games.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there a possible link? Is there a possible link?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I want to go back out to Alexis Weed.

Alexis, what can you tell me about the autopsies being completed? Has anyone claimed the shooter`s body and what can you tell me about trying to bury him in secret?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. The family has said that they would like to transport the bodies of Adam Lanza and Nancy Lanza privately, in secret, have a secret burial is what we`re hearing. Also, the autopsies, yes, they have been complete. As was stated earlier, blood samples have been submitted for Adam Lanza and it`s to see if the toxicology will come back positive or negative. However, Nancy, no medication has been found as we`re hearing inside the Lanza home.

GRACE: And back to you, Susan Candiotti, what can you tell me about a connection? We`ve all been trying to figure out, why did he focus on this school? Why Sandy Hook? Why an elementary school for Pete`s sake?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Nancy, that is one of many big questions. We don`t know. And here`s the thing that`s so stunning about this. We`ve not been able to get good information yet from the authorities as to whether he ever went to elementary school there. Now we have done interviews with some people who say that they went -- their children went to the school years ago, and said that they remember that Adam Lanza, the shooter, went to that school.

But then the police have said he had no connection to the school. Now they are telling Rita tonight that the state police saying that they only meant that he had no recent connection to the school.

GRACE: Right.

CANDIOTTI: So we`re still waiting for confirmation from the superintendent of schools as to whether he ever was a student there. But nevertheless we understand from the family of the school principal that he did not know Nancy Lanza. Did not know this boy or the mother.

GRACE: To Rita Cosby, what are you learning, Rita?

COSBY: Well, the "USA Today" newspaper is reporting that Janet Robinson. She`s the superintendent here with the board of education in Newtown, according, again to the "USA Today," that she is saying he did attend sandy hook elementary school at some point. Now, again, that`s she`s saying that he did attend Sandy Hook Elementary School at some point.

Now again, that`s their reporting. What we have reported is, indeed, that there were people who said they were in classes with him at some point. And as Susan was just saying when I talked to Lieutenant Vance with the state police just a short bit ago, he said that he knows recently there was no connection. He said he didn`t have any business opportunity. Didn`t have any volunteer work. But couldn`t rule out that he had gone to school there.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Carol, Indiana. Hi, Carol. What`s your question?

CAROL, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. You`re my number one. Love you, my number one. You are.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.

CAROL: Nancy, Mr. Rosen was not only a psychologist that day but he was a very compassionate grandfather. Grandparents have a special bond with their grandchildren. And I wanted to say even if you don`t belong to a church, take a piece of notebook paper, anything, and if we could have a P.O. box to (INAUDIBLE) and send it to Washington, D.C., because they`re taking too long with these lobbyists and all this stuff.

We need to get these guns off the street and those people who got these weapons, where are they going to get the bullets?

GRACE: You know, another thing, Carol, speaking of Washington, which is a whole another can of worms, is this is an elementary school. A public elementary school. And with all the money they`ve got floating around up in D.C., they can`t fortify public elementary schools? Why? Why can`t they? We can go all over the world and spend all sorts of money, but we can`t spend it on our own k-4th elementary schools to fortify them?

Look, there`s always going to be a way for some crazy person to get through and harm innocent people. But can`t we do all we can to stop it? Because they are not doing all they can in Washington. They are not doing all they can in state legislatures and assemblies.

I agree with you, Carol, 200 percent on the gun front and the public school front.

Out to the lines, Julie in Michigan. Hi, Julie, what`s your question? I think I`ve got Julie.

Is Julie in Michigan there, Liz?

JULIE, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Yes, yes, hi, Nancy. My name is Julie.

GRACE: Hi, dear.

JULIE: Hi. I just have a comment. I`m a mother of an 18-year-old to where I`ve had problems -- he`s had problems for the last eight years. At least. And every time I try to get help for him, when you`re a mother of one of these type of kids that you just don`t know what they`re going to do --

GRACE: OK. You know what? I`ve got a great person for you to talk to.

Tom Kersting, school counselor and psychotherapist at Valley Family Counseling Center.

Tom, help her. What should she do?

TOM KERSTING, SCHOOL COUNSELOR AND PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Let me ask you a question. Is there a father figure in the house?

JULIE: No, there isn`t. I`m a single parent.

KERSTING: And I kind of figured that out. You didn`t have to tell me that. I`m noticing a trend in our country nowadays with a lot of young boys, teenagers, young men. Oftentimes there`s not a strong, adult male role model in their house. And you have to use -- to assume the role of mother and father. And it makes things very complicated for you, it`s very difficult.

There`s some connection between young males and a father figure -- similar connection to a daughter to her mother. It`s just a different dynamic. So, you know, I think what you`re going to have to do is I would recommend trying to find a male therapist that your son can connect with. That`s something I do a lot, if you don`t live near me, unfortunately. And you know, and take it from there. And have somebody that he could talk to and trust and confide in and develop a strong bond with.

GRACE: I never thought about that, a male therapist to kind of step in and fill that empty spot. But, you know what, there are so many single parents. There`s got to be answers for them. And when I think about what Nancy Lanza was going through, she thought she was dying with MS obviously is what she thought. She`s preparing for the end. And she was desperately trying to get her son situated.

Out to -- is it Landa in Missouri? Hi, dear. What`s your question?

LANDA, CALLER FROM MISSOURI: Hello?

GRACE: I think I`ve got Landa. What`s your question, dear?

LANDA: yes, Nancy. How are you doing this evening?

GRACE: Good.

LANDA: I was -- I have two things I want to address. And the first thing I want to say, we owe our kids this protection. We owe our elementary children protection of the police. I live in a state, in a city where there are police in high schools from the time the kids get there until the time the kids leave. There`s a library in a local city up here who also has a police officer from the time it opens until the time it closes.

We owe our little children this protection, to put police with guns and security guards with guns to protect our children.

I was a single parent, also. I got into my kids` business. OK? I went into their room. I talked to my son. I asked both of my boys --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You know, Landa, I`m thinking about what you`re saying as far as having police in the school. You know what, I don`t see a problem with that. If that`s what it takes to protect them, I agree.

Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Renee Rockwell. Weigh in, Sue?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: The first line of defense are parents. And let me tell you something, if you have a child who is obsessed with violent video game fun, what are you doing with a semiautomatic gun? That was absolutely, absolutely one of the causes that led to this great massacre because this son of a gun played those video games, he plotted what he was going to do, he strategized how he would bring off some heinous plan and we, as parents, that if you have a child who is mentally ill or opposition defiance disorder or other type of diagnosed disease, you get rid of the guns. You get rid of the shotguns. You lock it up.

GRACE: Renee?

MOSS: This is the responsibility of us as parents.

GRACE: Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all, Nancy, you get rid of the guns in your house, and he`s going to get a gun next door. Maybe you need to get rid of the games before you get rid of the guns.

I`m all about getting game control, not gun control, because if you criminalize guns, Nancy, the only people --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls.

To Harry Houck, former NYPD, now HouckConsulting.com. They are trying to re-create or preserve the hard drive of that computer of the shooter`s computer. And my question is, why? What are they hoping to gain? What can be changed? What can be learned? What`s the point?

HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE, HOUCKCONSULTING.COM: Well, the hard drive is a real good thing because everything you do on your computer is on that hard drive. All right? So maybe they`re going to probably look up to see what websites he went to, all right? Maybe to get some training on the weapons, maybe to get some training on tactics. Maybe he left a manifesto for us.

He destroyed this hard drive for a reason. There`s something on there that he doesn`t want us to see and I`m sure --

GRACE: Yes.

HOUCK: -- that the FBI forensics will be able to find it.

GRACE: Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, Raleigh, North Carolina. Will they be able to do it?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, first of all, he`s absolutely right. I do believe that we have the people, the FBI law enforcement and digital forensic people today have the ability to put this hard drive back together. This kid was sophisticated, starting to learn -- knew a lot about computers. And it`s highly likely he knew what he was doing. He went after this hard disk.

I believe that law enforcement will get it back together, Nancy. We`ll get a lot of information from it.

GRACE: Out to the lines, John in New Jersey. Hi, John. What`s your question?

JOHN, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Nancy. I love you and your family.

GRACE: Thank you.

JOHN: First of all, I am tired of people saying mentally disturbed or challenged. He knew how to drive a car. He knew how to shoot a gun, thanks to his mother. Can the families go after the mother`s estate being she owned the guns?

GRACE: Susan Moss, Renee Rockwell? What about it, Renee?

ROCKWELL: First of all, you can always sue anybody for anything. Will they recover? I think that in this case any insurance company would be happy to tender the money. I say that there`s a payout at the end of the day.

GRACE: Susan?

MOSS: Absolutely. She had the responsibility. She knew or should have known that this created a dangerous scenario and she knew or should have known that she should have gotten rid that have semiautomatic with a magazine of -- of 30 shots.

GRACE: Well, another thing we know that he was out in the days just before the shooting trying to buy even more guns. And I`m wondering, for what? Now in the wake of this, there are copycat incidents.

Ellie Jostad, what can you tell me?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we`re hearing reports about an 11-year-old boy in Utah who brought a gun to school. He said it was actually to protect his classmates. But there was another student in South Carolina arrested with a cache of guns in his car as well as ammunition.

GRACE: You know, I want to go to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner and joining me out of Philly tonight. Another issue a lot of people are having with the claim that this guy had Asperger`s, I`ve never known Asperger`s to make someone violent.

DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: That`s right. I reviewed the literature over the weekend and there`s only a few articles that even suggest Asperger`s may be associated with violence. There`s no definite evidence that there is. They did talk in one of the -- one of the articles that a person may -- with Asperger`s may not know right from wrong, and it may serve as a defense in a -- like in a criminal homicide case, even though they`re not psychotic. They may not understand or appreciate the gravity of their decisions.

GRACE: But, you know, Tom Kersting, in addition to what --

MANION: Also they say Asperger`s, individuals don`t have empathy --

GRACE: I`m sorry, Bill. Go ahead.

MANION: Asperger syndrome, patients oftentimes don`t have empathy so they can`t appreciate that what they`re doing is maybe hurting someone or killing them. They lack that human quality that makes us all human. Empathy.

GRACE: And we learned, following up on what you`re saying, Bill Manion, that the mother was tortured because her son wouldn`t let her hug him, wouldn`t show love to her, and was actually, sometimes, she believes, hurting himself, trying to burn himself so he would feel something.

Rita Cosby, do you have more information on the guns we were describing?

COSBY: Yes, and what`s interesting is where the guns were kept. We talked to another person, a handy person who had been in the house. And they said that they were kept, at least when he was there -- again, this is not necessarily in recent weeks -- but in the past they were kept in a lock box in the basement. The reason that`s significant is, according to "The Sun" newspaper, again, according to this plumber who was in the house who described, remember the posters and all that stuff, they said that he lived in the basement.

So if that`s the case, the guns were kept in basically the same place he was living, in the same room or at least next door.

GRACE: Alexis Weed, I want to hear more about this bunker that he had created down in his mom`s basement.

WEED: Yes, Nancy, we`re hearing that the basement was littered with posters and memorabilia on the walls covered showing war memorabilia, war movies that I`m hearing that this was just throughout the basement, in addition to this lock box that was there that Rita was talking about.

GRACE: Even military posters about World War II guns, antique guns.

Robin in Ohio, hi, Robin, what`s your question?

ROBIN, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. I live in a small community with like 2500 people.

GRACE: Yes.

ROBIN: There`s a major interstate and a prison within walking distance from the school. I would like to have an idea of what I need to do to bring it aware to people -- right into the school any given minute of the day.

GRACE: OK, I couldn`t quite make out what your question was. What can you do for what, Robin?

ROBIN: What can I do as a member of my community to bring awareness to everybody, hey, we need to do something about this?

GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent point.

What do you think, Tom Kersting? What can be done?

KERSTING: Well, you know what, Nancy, you know what, Nancy, I think the problem is that I think we turn our heads nowadays in our society. We see somebody online at Dunkin` Donuts, we -- we let people do things and we can`t do that anymore.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: OK, no offense, Tom Kersting, but I don`t really understand what Dunkin` Donuts has to do with this.

KERSTING: My point is I think we need to start calling people out in our society. This is a societal problem going on here, violence, entitlement, anger. So if you`re online at Dunkin` Donuts, you see somebody being rude to a cashier, and may we -- maybe it`s time that we need to step and say something, and ask that person what their motive is. If we have friends of ours that we know --

GRACE: I agree 300 percent.

KERSTING: If we know that --

GRACE: And my question to you now -- let me redefine my question. Refine my question. The caller asked, how can we get this message out like how can people make a change in their own school? You`re the school counselor, right? That`s what it says, Tom Kersting, school counselor, psychotherapist, Valley Family Counseling Center.

KERSTING: That would be me.

GRACE: How can we improve our schools where our children go?

KERSTING: What we need to do is we have to start, it starts with the parents, first of all. The emphasis is always on the school. Parents need to get back to the basics in teaching their kids the difference between right and wrong. If we`re feeding them, you know, violent video games, what`s going to happen? They`re going to learn like a pilot learning -- in a flight simulator. They`re going to learn how to become violent human beings. So we need to start teaching our kids at home so that when they enter our building, that they`re functional human beings.

GRACE: Susan Moss, Renee Rockwell, they are looking at the hard drive for a reason. Do you think at this point it`s about a search for the truth plus liability? Do they think there is a co-conspirator? Are they looking for some video game that instigated this? What are they going to learn from this?

ROCKWELL: Everything. Is that to me, Nancy?

GRACE: Yes.

ROCKWELL: Everything. They`re looking for what games he`s watching and playing, what people he`s talking to, did he get the guns from somebody else? Was this preplanned? He`s dead now. There is not going to be any trial. This is for later, Nancy.

GRACE: No. You know, Sue Moss, how many more times are we going to have to scream about these video games? And I`m held back because of the First Amendment, but you know what? This is it.

MOSS: Absolutely. And what I want to know is what video games, how many hours he`s playing because I want to send out to all parents a warning call. If your kids are playing these games such as the one that is currently on the screen for several hours a day, we`ve got to tell them, you`ve got to stop it, you`ve got to stop it now and you need to make sure no violent weapons are anywhere near them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Robert J. Barrett, 21, Fall River, Massachusetts, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, War on Terrorism medal, Civil Liberty medal, served on the honor guard. ROTC in high school. Parents Paul and Carlene, sister Rebecca, grandmother Sue, cousin Bella. His pride and joy, daughter Sophie.

Robert J. Barrett, American hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people on the state of Michigan versus Jeffrey Pyne, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of second-degree murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The verdict, as you have just published on behalf of the jury, to wit, the defendant is guilty of second-degree murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Michael Christian, senior field producer with "In Session."

Michael, a guilty verdict, but not of murder one. What happened?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": The jury came back after 10 hours, Nancy. They found Jeffrey Pyne guilty of second- degree murder. Now that was a lesser included charge. It may have been a compromise on the part of the jury, we don`t know for sure, but because of that, Jeffrey Pyne, who will be sentenced on January 29th, faces a set term of years to life, but it includes the possibility of parole. If he`d been convicted of first-degree premeditated murder, it would have been an automatic sentence of life with no possibility of parole.

GRACE: It`s my understanding one of the jurors -- everybody, we are talking about the model son. Loving, valedictorian, star athlete. His mom is found bludgeoned and stabbed to death in the garage, now we know due to bipolar and possible schizophrenia, she had been beating her children since they were about 8 years old, even trying to kill her son.

But what leeway does the judge have in sentencing, Michael Christian?

CHRISTIAN: There will be a pre-sentencing investigation, and based on that, the judge will set the minimum number of years for the sentence. The way the statute reads, it`s a minimum number of years to life, but the judge is the one who will actually set that minimum number of years. So that is something that will be decided between now and the sentencing on January 29th.

GRACE: Well, I`m very surprised they convicted him at all, but I guess it was either -- they weren`t going to do murder one, so they thought they were doing him a favor with murder two, but he is looking at many years behind bars.

Everyone, our prayers remain there in Newtown.

Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END