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Newtown Massacre Inflames, Transforms Gun Debate; Obama to Announce Gun Policy 1st Steps; Obama to Speak on Gun Laws.

Aired December 19, 2012 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Evan's TSC includes one of the hallmark symptoms, potentially life- threatening seizures that can happen at any moment.

Since Evan's parents can't watch over him all of the time, they looked for an extra set of eyes, ears and a nose.

ROBERT MOSS, EVAN'S FATHER: We found out that the dogs respond to seizures --

EVAN MOSS, HAS TSC: Good dog.

ROBERT MOSS: -- that they had the capability to alert you, to tell you that the individual may have a seizure or may soon be having a seizure.

GUPTA: As you might imagine, these types of highly trained service dogs, dog that can literally sniff out chemical changes in the body leading up to a seizure, don't come cheap.

LISA MOSS, MOTHER OF EVEN: A service dog generally costs anywhere from $22,000 to $25,000. They ask for each recipient family to fundraise 13,000 of that to offset the costs. As part of the application they ask for something from the child receiving the dog. And he said, can I write a book?

EVEN MOSS: "My Seizure Dog," by me. I get a seizure dog to help me when I have a seizure. We will be best friends.

ARIA MOSS, SISTER OF EVEN: Let me try something.

GUPTA: His big sister, Aria, suggested their parents self publish Evan's book on Amazon where it quickly shot to the best-seller list. A book signing followed at a neighborhood coffee shop. The turnout was overwhelming.

LISA MOSS: We did end up raising around $45,000 and helped about seven additional children complete their fundraising.

EVAN MOSS: Mindy, come on. Come up.

GUPTA: Mindy rarely leaves Evan's side during the day, at school, on the bus, in the backyard. And never leaves his side at night. EVAN MOSS: The seizure dog will sleep with me. If I have a seizure during my sleep, the seizure dog will tell me parents.

GUPTA: Mindy Moss, family pet, parent's security blanket and Evan's best friend.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Long before the unspeakable acts in Newtown, guns were what the pundits called a wedge issue in America. People who could talk with open minds about things like abortion, global warming and in the Middle East, holding very strong opinions about guns and crime and constitutional rights. And if you caught our Piers Morgan this week or really ever for that matter, you know that he is very, very passionate. He is an uber supporter of gun restrictions, and the slaughter in Newtown hit hard and hardened his resolve as well.

Last night, he was interviewing the executive director of Gun Owners of America, Larry Pratt. And I want to play one moment of their conversation, just so you can see the tenor of how this conversation is starting to play out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY PRATT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA: America is not the Wild West that you are depicting. We only have the problem in our cities and unhappily in our schools where people like you have been able to get laws put on the books that keep people from being able to defend themselves. I honestly don't understand why you would rather have people be victims of a crime than be able to defend themselves. It is incomprehensible.

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, PIERS MORGAN: You're an unbelievably stupid man, aren't you?

PRATT: It seems to me you're morally obtuse. You seem to prefer to be a victim than being able to prevail over the criminal element. I don't want why you want to be the criminal's friend.

MORGAN: What a ridiculous argument. Have you no coherent argument whatsoever. You don't --

(CROSSTALK)

PRATT: You have no --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: You don't give a damn about the gun murder rate in America? You don't care. All you care about --

(CROSSTALK)

PRATT: It seems to me --

(CROSSTALK)

PRATT: -- that facts don't bother you --

(CROSSTALK)

PRATT: -- do they, Mr. Morgan?

MORGAN: You would like to see -- let's go through this.

PRATT: Facts don't seem to -- they bounce right off of your head.

MORGAN: No, no, no --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. That's not just happening on television. That is happening across the country. So consider it a back drop to an effort that's getting under way in Washington, D.C., to try to affect something constructive about guns and the violence that's just so pervasive in this country. I think it is a little too soon to declare the Newtown killings are really a certain turning point. But it truly does seem to be a moment in which historic change is possible.

As we have reported President Obama is about to introduce a government-wide gun policy review headed by Vice President Biden. We're short on details right now. We are going to get them and soon.

Joining me now to lend their expertise and insight are CNN's Wolf Blitzer and Dana Bash and Jeffrey Toobin here in New York.

I also want to welcome viewers joining us around the world on CNN INTERNATIONAL.

Wolf, start off for me, if you will. What exactly is President Obama trying to do here or is this going to be a work in progress?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: He promised the other night when he was in Newtown -- and you were there and I was there -- and he promised, at the memorial service, that interfaith service, that he was going to use all the power of his office, as second-Term president, to make sure to try to do whatever he can to make sure it doesn't happen again. I suspect it will happen again, even though maybe there will be some action taken, action involving -- I'm sure he wants stricter gun control in the United States, also better action dealing with mental health issues, because the country has really been derelict, hasn't done much during the first term and I think he wants to move forward in both of these areas now in his second term.

A lot going on. He came in and the country was near not only a recession and almost near a depression, the worst economic situation in 60 years or so, so he had a lot going on, two wars. But I think now he has really been traumatized, like so many of us have been, by what he saw up there, what -- the horrendous nature, and he wants to learn lessons. And I think that's why he is asking Joe Biden and other experts to come up with a plan and come up with specific legislation that's doable, that might be passable and try to do whatever he can to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's what he promised the American people he would do. Let's see if he can deliver.

BANFIELD: I am curious to find out if it will be something as sweeping as perhaps a new government agency like Homeland Security. That was born of the crisis in 9/11. And here we are in a crisis that many people have equated to 9/11, certainly, not in its scope, but in its feeling. The people's reaction to what happened in Newtown is eerily similar, this numbness that people couldn't describe or characterize, a template that hadn't been written before.

With that in mind, Dana Bash, is that possible? Is this something that may be bandied about, the possibility of a whole new agency in government at a time when we don't have money for the agencies that exist?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think with regard to a new agency, it is not so much just money, it is philosophy. I think where we are right now in these political times, it is very unlikely for both sides to come together and say it is time to expand the government. Right now, the political atmosphere is the opposite. Everybody is trying to shrink government. Even Democrats think it is important. So that's unlikely.

But there is a very real possibility, more than we have seen maybe in the past 10, 15 years, of using the current government wheels, whether it is just the basic legislation here in Congress, to act. What that action is, that is definitely still a big question mark.

We know that Senator Diane Feinstein, actually going to be in the next Congress, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, so she will have jurisdiction over all of this, she is pushing to revive the assault weapons ban, and told me she is she open to talking to people that have been for gun rights. And the fact we haven't heard very much at all from many Republicans and even some Democrats who are vehemently in favor of gun rights is very, very telling and, in part, it is because of the rawness of the situation, and just like the NRA said in the statement, that it is not right to say anything right now. But I think it also is, in part, because of this incident did shift opinions, whether it is not to actually change the law, that's a different question.

BANFIELD: Dana -- yes, it may be raw now, but you and I know all to well that it is not going to be too raw soon enough, and then the intransigence we're seeing on the fiscal cliff is a perfect example of how we can probably expect there will be intransigence on these issues as well. And I think, when you say a change of philosophy, I am curious to find out if the change of philosophy might mean reorganizing agencies because Homeland Security was a reorganization of existing agencies into something entirely different. I don't know how much of an expansion it was compared to reorganization. Is that something that we might see that does encompass all of the other issues being discussed right now, whether it is the assault weapons ban, gun control, violence in movies and gaming, mental health issues, school security, all of those things?

BASH: Sure. Anything is possible, Ashleigh. I think the fact the president is tapping Joe Biden, who has such extensive experience in government, decades and decades in the Senate, who knows how to reach across party lines and even on issues that are so divisive like this.

The other thing we should keep in mind I am sorry to say is raw politics and the fact is that looking ahead to the next election and people are already doing that. There are about half a dozen conservative Democrats up for re-election who are simply keeping mum on the question of whether they would go for any new gun restrictions. I have to tell you, I pretty much almost chased one into the bathroom yesterday trying to get an answer, and they don't want to talk about it.

So when emotions become less raw, that's the other thing that happens. It is easier for the politics to surface and it may hurt chances for people that want more gun control to see that succeed.

BANFIELD: I want to bring in our senior legal correspondent, Jeffrey Toobin, on that.

You immediately reacted to that.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: You're talking about a new agency. There is a law enforcement agency called the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It has been systematically starved by Congress because the NRA doesn't like the BATF. It doesn't even have a full-time confirmed leader. It is a firearms agency. The power of the NRA is such in Congress that they have essentially written this agency out of the book.

BANFIELD: But you know what I'm talking about when I talk about a new agency or this new initiative, is it just about guns or a far greater issue that everybody wants to put a piece in.

TOOBIN: Sure. There are lots of moving parts here. Obviously, mental health is an enormous part. The federal government doesn't have a lot to do with mental health, Medicaid --

BANFIELD: It's states.

TOOBIN: Mostly state issues.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: They can give money. They can give money to the states for sorts of things and they don't control issues of who gets institutionalized and who gets deinstitutionalized and what narcotics or what kind of medicine can be used on people. So I color me very skeptical. As Dana point out, there is not a lot of political will here among vulnerable Democrats and they're the ones who will make the difference. And the Republican Party is already completely aligned.

BANFIELD: Let me talk to you about the Supreme Court and the Second Amendment and some of the, well, the restrictions on what government can do because of what the Supreme Court has done. And I want to read the Second Amendment so everybody is very clear on the grammar. I am always very frustrated by the commas and the clauses and let me read specifically and put it up on the screen so the viewers are clear. It may give you insight. It may not. But listen carefully. "A well- regulated militia, comma, being necessary to the security of a free state, comma, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

And, Jeffrey, I heard you say earlier that for 100 years that meant state militia.

TOOBIN: Right. It meant state militias that basically what became state police. They have the right to bear arms. But as of 2008, the United States Supreme Courts said, no, it is individuals, basically, the second clause now trumps the first clause, instead of the first clause trumping the second clause, and so now the Supreme Court said there is an individual right to keep and bear arms.

Now, how far that right extends is not clear. The court has not really elaborated on that yet. So in addition to political obstacles to gun control, there are no legal obstacles to gun control and we have to see how those play into this as well.

BANFIELD: Wolf Blitzer, that is not lost on our lawmakers right now. There are legal restrictions and confines through which they need to operate.

BLITZER: They need to work through this and, at some point, the Supreme Court probably will get back involved if there is more legislation, new legislation. How far does it go? Does it withstand the language of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

Ashleigh, what I am looking forward to is hearing from the president now. He is creating this new commission to deal with the issue in the aftermath of what happened in Newtown, and some of the other incidents that have occurred while he has been president, whether in Colorado or Wisconsin or elsewhere.

What I am interested, how long of a deadline will Joe Biden and company have? When will their recommendations be coming forward? I want to hear, is it going to be a matter of weeks? Is it going to be a matter of months? Because over the years -- and I have been in Washington for a long time -- whenever a president wants to deal with something but he is not ready to deal with it, he creates a commission and effectively punts the ball down the road, because that's a good way of pretending you're doing something and not really doing anything. And I remember, recently, the fiscal crisis we had and the Bowles-Simpson Commission were going to come up with plans to deal with the deficit and the long-term debt reduction, spending, and all of that, and they came up with a plan and it hasn't worked out that great. We're in the middle of a fiscal cliff crisis now. So I want to see specifics. I want to see what the president announces, who will be on the commission, how long do they have, what's the mandate, what are the recommendations? Or is this just going to be more talk, talk, talk, and not enough action, action, action?

BANFIELD: And speaking of action, Wolf, you and I have covered enough of these things over the years to know there is great criticism when gun control comes up and the debate of it comes up in the immediate aftermath of a shooting, it feels different this time. The polling across the nation immediately afterwards showed a seismic shift, it seemed, in how people felt. And the majority of Americans felt that tighter gun controls were needed post what happened in Newtown. Some say that's political opportunists taking advantage of a situation. Others say this is politics as it should be, reacting to their constituents. How are you feeling this in Washington?

BLITZER: There is a huge debate in Washington. And there has been -- ever since I have come to Washington there has been a huge debate over guns, and gun control and assault weapons bans and background checks and gun shows. I have been hearing this debate for years and it is a debate that is going to resonate now. And people feel very strongly on both sides. On the one hand, people say less guns, that's better, and the other hand, people want to have self protection and be able to protect themselves in their homes and be able to protect their families, and so they want guns. So this debate will go on.

I am not saying I have the answers and I am not saying there are easy answers to this debate. In the immediate aftermath of a disaster like we just saw, I suspect that the debate will intensify, at least in the short-term, before we move onto something else.

BANFIELD: And Dana Bash, if you could weigh in on that as well. Wolf alluded to the idea, the who, the why, the mandate, and all of these things that will be critical as to maybe clues as to just how much teeth any initiative may have. Are you getting any early word on any of these questions?

BASH: Not quite yet. I think that one of the most important things that Wolf just point out was the time, and that many times when a president calls for an inter-agency commission or panel, it does kick the can down the road. And in the political times we're in now, that can't happen. We just had an election. As I mentioned, the next election when it comes to Congress is just two years away which, in political terms as far as the people who are up are concerned, is tomorrow, so the window is very, very small. Not just because the will probably won't be there as people's emotions subside but because of the political calendar. And it is crucial for people who do want to get more gun control laws on the books. That has to be taken into consideration. And people who here in Congress, particularly Joe Biden, who spent decades here in Congress, gets that.

BANFIELD: Our White House correspondent, Brianna Keilar, is joining us just outside the briefing room.

You see the empty podium. We're waiting for the president and the vice president to tell us what they mean.

Are you getting any wind -- I mean, this is cobbled together fairly quickly. Nobody expected what happened this week. What do you know about how they've been able to manage and put together whatever they're going to announce to us?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What we know, and I think we got a preview on how the president want wants to approach in a bit of a comprehensive way. Ashleigh, a couple days ago, he met with members of the cabinet. This included Attorney General Eric Holder, Health and Human Services Director Kathleen Sebelius, the vice president as well, and the Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. He's signaling that he wants to do something across agencies and sort of approach this in a comprehensive way.

We also heard yesterday, in the briefing from Jay Carney, the first time that the White House put out some specifics about some things that the president would pursue, that he would support Senator Dianne Feinstein's efforts to reinstate the assault weapons ban, that he would want to tackle high-count ammunition clips as well as close the gun loophole. And he's hinted, as well, in his remarks in Newtown, tackling the issue of mental health as well. So we know the White House wants to look at this comprehensively. And that's some of what we expect to hear today here in the briefing room.

But the thing is we're not expecting a whole lot of specifics. And that is something as you have been talking about is very frustrating to gun-control advocates who say they want to hear specifics, who say the time is now, and it seems the sense from the White House is that they want to wait. Some Democrats definitely say that this is a gamble because, as we know, there is a bit of a rhythm to events like this where people become less concerned with it. What we've been hearing from the White House is they think that's not the case, that because this is something so exceptional, as Jay Carney put it, because children were involved, that there is an appetite far beyond to deal with this.

BANFIELD: Speaking of that, you mentioned Arne Duncan. Brianna, I just want to give a bit of breaking news that the secretary of education is also en route to Newtown, Connecticut. Apparently, he will be involved in some way either at the viewing or the funeral for the principal who was killed, the principal of Sandy Hook Elementary, Dawn Hochsprung. Her funeral is tomorrow. And it's not taking place in Connecticut. I'm not sure if he's part of the viewing or then move on from Connecticut to New York for the funeral. But that has just crossed our wires.

I want to bring in Candy Crowley, anchor of "State of the Union."

Candy, you heard Brianna characterize this as an unprecedented initiative. I want a feeling from you as I said cobbling together in a hurried way. We're only five, six days since this incident. How much can be done, and how much is a work in progress?

CANDY CROWLEY, ANCHOR, STATE OF THE NATION: Well, the president can do some things through executive order, through directing agencies to pay attention to certain specific things. We all know there are laws enforced and other laws where there's not the personnel to go after it.

I spoke with Carol McCarthy. Her husband was killed the on the subway many years ago. She became an activist and came it to Congress. I was talking to her, and she said, listen, there are laws that have been passed that aren't funded. It has to do with background checks that include mental health. So there are things that can be done now, should they be deemed worthy of doing that that can be funded. Actions are out there.

But then if you're talking about legislation, if you're talking about an assault weapons ban, I think that you will see in Congress particularly in the Senate a lot of times laws done in haste have those unintended consequences. So the fact that they may take their time to make major changes I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. Certainly, getting it rolling and having somebody like the vice president behind it and kind of running this panel, I think, does put some urgency to it. But there are things you can do tomorrow and there are things that are going to take some time. Unfortunately, for those who want gun control this second, that's about legislation and that, as we all know, takes some time.

BANFIELD: Sure. And, of course, we know just what up happens with legislation now with our extremely bipolarized Senate and Congress.

Wolf Blitzer, I want it to bring you in quickly.

Candy mentioned the unintended consequences of hasty legislation and hasty initiatives. I wanted to get your feel on that.

BLITZER: She's right. Sometimes, you know, you have to be careful and cautious and deal diligently with these kinds of very sensitive issues because sometimes can be unintended consequences of hastily organized legislation. You're not sure what you get.

I think the president is doing the right thing. Let him come up with a specific plan to deal with this. Let him use the bully pulpit of re-elected president in the second term. He can't get re-elected a third time. He has to worry about his legacy and his record. What will he leave and accomplish during the second term? This is an area where I know he feels strongly, especially in the aftermath of what he saw over the weekend when he went to Newtown, Connecticut. I think he's passionate about it. Yes, he's got a lot of other issues on his agenda, but I suspect he wants to push on this. If he can't do the legislation, he's got plenty of opportunities, as Candy said, to do it unilaterally through executive action or orders. He's got that power. He's the president of the United States, and he can do a whole bunch of things without Congress if he really wants to.

BANFIELD: And I mentioned it off the top of our conversation just the tendency for those to politicize tragedy and the criticism that comes in the aftermath of tragedy for those who politicize. There's this other notion that this could be a turning point for the nation. And how much of what is being done right now is being down because we're capitalizing as a government on how the nation feels immediately, how much is being done because this is the only time it could be done politically.

BLITZER: The emotions are really raw right now for everyone who was watching what was going on over these last few days. The emotions are very intense. We've just seen, in this country, 20 little children, first graders, six and seven years old, gunned down for no reason whatsoever in a brutal, brutal way. The face of this investigation, Lieutenant Paul Vance of the Connecticut State Police, told me yesterday each kid wasn't shot once or twice, shot multiple times, as were the six educators as well. The emotions are raw. This is a moment that the country is ready to do something, and now the debate will intensify. If it's not done now, I suspect it's not going to be done.

BANFIELD: Wolf, I want to take an opportunity to squeeze in a quick break. We don't want to miss anything the president has to say, nor the vice president.

We'll be back in just a few moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to welcome our international viewers from around the world as we stand by live on this developing story. This is the White House briefing room, and we're waiting for the president of the United States, the vice president of the United States. It's what's being called the announcement of an inter-agency to develop new processes in the wake of this terrible tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, in which 20 children and six adults were massacred in an elementary school. And a mother was massacred in her bed and a killer killed himself.

It is an unprecedented action, it seems, by the federal government at the time to put into context how the response can be from the government to try to incorporate some kind of gun initiative, perhaps education initiative, mental health initiative. We're waiting to get all of the details.

As we await the president and vice president, I'll turn the baton over to my colleague, Suzanne Malveaux, with the NEWSROOM -- Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Ashleigh.

Of course, it is really the horrific killing of those first graders that put guns back on the national agenda. And today, as we see at the podium there -- we're getting a two-minute warning.