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Nancy Grace

Obese Killer Spared

Aired December 19, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Cleveland suburbs. Mother of three Helen Vantz gunned down execution-style over $100, her pocketbook and a 13-inch TV. That`s the beginning of the story.

Here`s the rest. The thug that murders Mommy now says he`s too obese -- yes, too fat -- for justice. Really? Well, he didn`t think there was any reason not to gun down Mommy at Christmastime.

Bombshell tonight. After vicious confessed killer Ronald Post gets married to a woman behind bars, whining incessantly he can`t play cards with his friends in jail or make enough phone calls to suit him, in a stunning twist, Ohio governor John Kasich ducks the too fat to die claim and hides behind the Ohio parole board to stop Ronald Post`s death penalty.

No! Post needs to go on a diet, the death row diet!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he too fat to die?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He weighs 480 pounds. Doctors are saying it`s actually dangerous for him to be walking around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The governor of Ohio has canceled the execution of a nearly 500-pound death row inmate who claims he was too fat to be killed by the state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s laughable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that have to do it? He still did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murder of Helen Vantz, a hotel clerk he shot twice in the head and then robbed while she worked at the then Slumber Inn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t obese when he pulled the trigger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The warden tested the state`s execution table by putting the weights, which totaled 540 pounds, on the table for two hours, he says, with no problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was originally sentenced to die in the electric chair. They ruled that to be cruel and unusual. Hey, I don`t care. I just want this over with. My family wants this over with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. To the Cleveland suburbs, mother of three Helen Vantz gunned down execution style. Why? Over 100 bucks, her pocketbook and a 13-inch TV. And now the thug that murders Mommy at Christmastime says he`s too fat for justice, too obese for the death penalty.

But in the last hours, in a stunning twist, Ohio governor John Kasich ducks the too fat to die claim and he hides behind the Ohio parole board to stop Post`s death penalty.

You know what? Post needs to go on a diet, the death row diet!

We are taking your calls. And joining me, the victim`s family. Straight out to Phil Trexler, reporter with "The Akron Beacon-Journal." Phil, what happened?

PHIL TREXLER, "AKRON BEACON-JOURNAL" (via telephone): Well, you know, I think we`re being deprived here of finding out actually if, indeed, Ronald Post was too fat to be executed. The Ohio parole board decided to grant this man clemency, and the governor, of course, agreed with their recommendation, basically saying that he was deprived adequate defense back 30 years ago.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Let me just ask you a question. Phil Trexler, so the guy, Post, Ronald Post, has gone to federal court claiming, among many things -- this is after he gets married behind bars, whines that he can`t play cards enough with his jailhouse friends, that he doesn`t get to make all of the phone calls he wants to make. -- he claims he`s too fat to be executed, that it would cause undue punishment to try to find a vein for lethal injection?

TREXLER: Yes, that`s exactly right.

GRACE: So let me get this straight. So he goes up, Phil Trexler, now to the parole board, and the governor goes along with it, on another claim, that his defense attorney at trial wasn`t so great. But isn`t it true that he pled no contest?

TREXLER: Yes, that`s absolutely correct. He pled no contest, was found guilty. And in fact, he`s made these arguments in court for 30 years that, basically, he was deprived of adequate defense. So it was kind of a surprising decision here by the parole board and by the governor to actually grant this clemency and allow him to live his life out in prison.

GRACE: Everybody, as we are approaching Christmas -- we have been right in the middle of Hanukkah -- imagine your mother working -- she worked at a hotel. She was a clerk. This guy comes in and sits around in the lobby and makes small talk with her for hours in the afternoon, only to come back and murder her in cold blood that evening at Christmastime. His (SIC) family with us tonight, outraged by the Ohio governor`s decision.

To Brett Larson, investigative reporter. What more can you tell me, Brett? I mean, now the governor`s trying to hang his hat on the fact that he now says the defense attorney wasn`t good enough at trial. What trial? The guy pled no contest. He admitted he did it in court under oath.

BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Exactly. And that`s where this whole -- it`s, like, what took them so long to say that`s what he did? The fact is, this guy went into that hotel, shot this woman execution-style twice in the back of the head for 100 bucks and a little black-and-white TV. And now he`s saying, Oh, I`m too fat. You can`t put me down. He`s been saying that all along.

So you know, first we get the Twinkie defense back in the `70s in San Francisco that allows Dan White to kill Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk. Now I guess we can say, Oh, I`m too fat to be killed, I`m too fat to be put on trial.

He needs to go to death row, where he can be, you know, put on a little bit of a diet, as you were saying. It`s just outrageous.

GRACE: You know what, Brett? I want to go through the facts of what happened to Helen Vantz. What happened to her?

LARSON: She works at this motel. She had a family. She still has a family. They`re grieving tonight. She was working there. He shows up with a couple buddies. They hung out there during the day. He goes away, comes back later that night, shoots her execution-style in the back of the head two times, steals her pocketbook, gets $100 and a little black-and- white TV, and then says to the police, Well, I don`t know that I necessarily did it. I will admit that I drove the car to get away from the scene, and then goes off to plead no contest.

Now, there have been accusations that he did confess to this crime, but now he`s, you know, recanted these things, saying, No, it`s because I`m overweight and I had a bad trial.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Jai in North Carolina. Hi, Jai. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. With the exception of mental illness, I feel that (INAUDIBLE) you`re handicapped or you`re (INAUDIBLE) doesn`t prevent you from committing a crime, then it shouldn`t prevent you from receiving your punishment. I mean, this is just ridiculous. You know, you have three kids that are grieving their mother. I mean (INAUDIBLE) and...

GRACE: Well, here`s my question to you, Jai from North Carolina. This guy weighs 450 pounds. How did that happen? Number one. So do you believe that he is disabled?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know that he is disabled. And how is he 450 pounds behind bars? What are they feeding him?

GRACE: You know, I`m going to go to the doctor on that. With me is Dr. Michelle Dupre from Columbia. How do you maintain a weight of 450 pounds behind bars? You know who`s footing that food bill? Me and my children and all of us that pay taxes. We got to pay for this guy to eat 450 pounds` worth?

DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy, this is just incredible, I mean, totally unbelievable. You know, he had the same opportunity as the other inmates with the same food, with the same opportunity to exercise. I mean, what are we talking about here? This is crazy.

GRACE: How does he -- how do you maintain that weight, Dr. Michelle? Because I`ve got his jail menu for tonight -- hamburger patty, white bread, potatoes, veggies, and a banana, all right? He`s not gaining weight there. So how is he doing it?

DUPRE: He is obviously not exercising.

GRACE: And you know, another thing, when you`re at that weight, how many calories a day does it take to maintain the weight, like, 2,000?

DUPRE: At least. I mean, a normal calorie intake for average type people, 1,200 to 1,500 or so. That`s just incredible, way, way, way too much weight.

GRACE: Well, I tell you, Dr. Michelle, he is not disabled because he has gotten married behind bars. He engages in games. He whines he can`t get enough card games in with his friends behind bars, that he`s not getting to talk enough on the telephone.

I want to go back to the victim, Helen Vantz, and how her family is responding tonight. With me is Bill Vantz. That`s her son, outraged by the clemency decision, and Sheryl Vantz, her daughter-in-law.

First of all, to you, Bill Vantz. I`m stunned -- if this Ohio governor gets re-elected, you should be lying on the front of the governor`s mansion, protesting!

BILL VANTZ, VICTIM`S SON (via telephone): Well, I`d like to see him impeached. Obviously he made a judgment that was a rush to judgment on his part. I don`t know, you know, is he going on vacation? You know, the holidays are coming up, he doesn`t want to be bothered with this. You know, after 29 years, with a stroke of a pen, he wipes that all out.

As far as, you know, him being obese, they have commissary rights. And somebody was apparently feeding his commissary fund and probably some bleeding hearts out there that, you know, Oh, poor Ronnie. You know, that`s how he kept the weight on.

GRACE: So you think that somebody is bankrolling his jail commissary account?

BILL VANTZ: Oh, yes. That`s the only way they can get commissary rights, is if someone is feeding their account. I don`t know who it was. It could have been his family. It could -- but it`s probably the bleeding hearts out there who, you know, are -- would have been protesting on January 16th outside the prison...

GRACE: You know, Bill Vantz...

BILL VANTZ: (INAUDIBLE) at the clemency hearing.

GRACE: As we approach Christmas, this is the time of the year when your mother was murdered. It`s actually hard for me to put all those words into one sentence, mother murdered. I just -- it`s hard for me to even comprehend such a horrible thing happening to a mother.

How do you get through the holiday? I mean, how do you put a star on a tree and celebrate when this has happened, thanks to the Ohio governor?

BILL VANTZ: I don`t know. This year it`s going to be even more difficult than ever. There is just -- you know, the justice did not come through. This is a theft of justice for my family, my friends, and the state of Ohio, the people of the state of Ohio.

You know, Governor Kasich is originally from Pittsburgh, I understand. He needs to go back to Pennsylvania.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 450-pound death row inmate who claims he was too fat to be executed has been granted clemency by the Ohio governor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`s very upsetting. I mean, you know, I`ve been waiting nearly 30 years for this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Post says at 480 pounds, he`s too obese to be executed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Vantz says he has little sympathy for his mother`s killer. Helen Vantz was shot in the head while working at an Illyria (ph) motel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very understandable, but it`s also outlandish.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why should he be any different than anybody else because he`s overweight?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s only gotten obese because it`s taken so long to get to this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: He is tipping the scales at over 450 pounds, and he is a convicted killer. But now, on the eve of execution, the Ohio governor, Kasich, says he will not go to death row. He will not get the death penalty, ducking the too fat to die complaint that he filed in a federal court.

So he`s not planning his last supper tonight, unlike a fellow inmate, Gary Simmons, Jr., who devoured a 29,000-calorie last meal -- two Pizza Hut pizzas, six pounds of cheese, 80 ounces -- what`s that, two gallons? -- of ranch dressing, Doritos, milkshakes, supersize McDonald`s fries, two pints of strawberry ice cream.

Well, you know what? Ronald Post has put off planning that last meal, thanks to the Ohio governor. And he`s hiding behind the Ohio parole board. Now, some of the parole board voted against clemency. Kathleen Kovach, Trayce Thalheimer and Mark Houk said, No, this guy`s going to the death penalty.

He confessed to shooting down a defenseless woman working as a clerk at the Slumber Inn, trying to support her family, shot her two times in the head for her pocketbook, 100 bucks and a 13-inch TV.

Her son is with me tonight. While most of us will be celebrating Christmas, he has to remember his mom was murdered execution-style. And now his governor is siding with the killer, all right?

I just told you the parole board said, No, this is wrong, as they should have. Cynthia Mauser, the chair, said, Sure, let him go. Ellen Venters, R.F. Rauschenberg, Andre Imbrogno and Ron Nelson all agreed that he should be spared the same torture that he gave his victim at Christmastime.

We are taking your calls. And with me is Sheryl Vantz. This is Helen`s daughter-in-law. Sheryl, I would like to hear what you have to say.

SHERYL VANTZ, VICTIM`S DAUGHTER-IN-LAW (via telephone): Well, Nancy, first I`d like to say that the people of Ohio need to be the ones seriously outraged at this. For over a year, Ronald Post has sat in a prison hospital, Franklin Medical Center. He has not even been on death row. He has not even been in the prison. And I was told it is $250,000 a year to keep him there. When there are people out there in Ohio living paycheck to paycheck who cannot afford health insurance, the people of Ohio are footing his medical bills.

GRACE: OK.

SHERYL VANTZ: Well, is the governor -- the governor is not obviously too concerned about his fiscal budget, now, is he?

GRACE: A quarter of a million dollars. Unleash the lawyers. Mickey Sherman, defense attorney, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" joining me out of New York, and Parag Shah, defense attorney and author of "The Code."

First of all, Mick, I know your knee-jerk reaction, OK? But the governor of Ohio is hiding behind the parole board and claiming that the defense attorney was lousy at trial. He`s not the court of appeals. All of the courts of appeals have supported and upheld his plea of no contest, all right?

So how is it that a governor decides -- what is he, the supreme court now, that he`s suddenly saying the defense lawyer was insufficient at trial? It was a plea, for Pete`s sake! There was no trial! The guy admitted!

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think part of the deal was that if he pled guilty, if he pled no contest, he was told by his lawyer, according to the complaint, that he would not get the death penalty. That`s part of the ineffectiveness of counsel claim.

And you know what? That`s what the governor is supposed to be doing. You`ve got the governor and former members of the parole board basically ignoring the obesity thing. The too fat to die thing, is interesting. It`s bizarre. But it has nothing to do with what they did.

What they said is everyone deserves an effective counsel at time of trial, especially in a death penalty case. And the governor obviously has a nagging problem with, Did this guy get a fair shake?

GRACE: A nagging problem. I got a nagging problem with a mother getting shot execution-style two times in the back of the head, Parag Shah. That`s what I`ve got a problem with.

PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he`s doing the right thing, although it`s a hard decision.

GRACE: Who`s he? Who? He is doing...

SHAH: The governor.

GRACE: ... what right thing?

SHAH: The governor is upholding the rights of the Constitution. You`re entitled...

GRACE: Really?

SHAH: ... to effective assistance of counsel and...

GRACE: It`s funny how...

SHAH: ... prohibited from unusual cruel (ph) and (ph) punishment (ph).

GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re saying because this has been appealed all the way up the chain to appellate courts. And now, instead of tackling the argument head-on that this guy claims he`s too fat to die, the governor is hiding behind the parole board!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s put me through 30 years of crap.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he was good guy, shot her in the head for 100 bucks. They should have executed him years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He shot and killed Helen Vantz for $100 and a little TV, and that`s what he thought her life was worth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man had to go to Ohio State University medical facility for an IV. Guess what? They found a vein.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Michelle in Florida. Hi, Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a question. I read that he spent a day before killing his victim -- I believe he was with her. What was he doing with her? And did they know each other prior to this?

GRACE: OK, Michelle in Florida, I hope you`re not suggesting that this was some love triangle of some sort. Hold -- just keep Michelle in Florida for one moment.

Out to you, Brett Larson. The time that he spent with the victim, this mother, Helen Vantz, at Christmastime, wasn`t it that he did have some other people in on the armed robbery with him, they flaked out, and he spent all this time hanging out in the hotel lobby, talking to the victim, so he got to know her before he murdered her?

LARSON: Yes, and I think that is the extent of how well he knew her, was the time he spent hanging out with her in the lobby of this motel before he left and came back to shoot her twice in the head execution-style to steal that little black-and-white TV and the 100 bucks from her pocketbook.

Now, there are reports that there were two other alleged gunmen involved in the crime, but we see this is the guy who ended up on death row for it.

GRACE: Let me go back to Michelle in Florida. So Michelle, I thought that I had the facts down, and that is exactly what happened. The time he spent with her, it was about a whole day. It was -- I guess you could technically say the day before because all of this finally unfolded late that night into the early morning hours. But basically, he hung out in the hotel lobby, casing the joint and actually getting to know his murder victim.

And Michelle in Florida, I don`t know, do you have children?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do.

GRACE: Well, imagine your children this Christmas. I`m going to be presumptuous thinking that you`re going to celebrate Christmas. Imagine your children trying to celebrate Christmas while the year before, you`d been shot twice in the head and they don`t have a mother. They don`t have a mother at Christmastime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.

GRACE: They don`t have anybody to be with. They don`t have somebody to buy a gift for or to hug them or love them or give them a mother`s care. That`s what this family went through, Michelle in Florida!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know. It`s so outrageous. I also have another question. What if he was anorexic? I mean, what does it matter? What does the weight matter?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The governor of Ohio has canceled the execution of a nearly 500-pound death row inmate who claims he was too fat to be killed by the state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He weighs 480 pounds, and they had a stationary bike there where he was attempting to ride it and broke it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Post pled no contest to killing hotel desk clerk and mom of three Helen Vantz and was sentenced to death by lethal injection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He apologized in open court for doing it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Post claimed he shouldn`t be executed because at nearly 500 pounds, trying to kill him would amount to cruel and unusual punishment due to the fact that defense medical experts claim doctors wouldn`t be able to find a vein.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Now let`s talk for just a moment about who is letting this killer go. All right? A 450-pound-plus inmate who claims he`s too fat to die after he cold-bloodedly executes a mother at Christmastime.

OK. The governor is the one hiding behind the Parole Board. The governor appoints the director of the Rehab and Correction Department, and that director appoints the Parole Board. So everybody is just a puppet to the governor. So they`re all in on this together, this decision.

Now who are they over -- who are they vetoing? A judge and a plea, a guilty plea, no contest, in court, by the killer.

We are taking your calls. Chris in Colorado -- hi, Chris. What`s your question?

CHRIS, CALLER FROM COLORADO: Hi. Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to wish you a happy holidays.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you so much.

CHRIS: And just be thankful that you have them. You know, this gun control -- you know, it`s out there. We can`t stop it. But they can change the rules. If you murder somebody, you get murdered, too. There are so many people out there now just getting shot and then they`re getting let go. And this 400-pound man wasn`t medicated. He knew what he was doing. He was seeking out the building, talking to the female. He knew what he was doing. It wasn`t a case of the right state of mind.

But if you`re on death row, you should get no privileges, no money, no telephone calls, because the people that they kill, they`re not getting no phone call. They`re not getting no food. You know? And the governor, shame on him.

GRACE: I agree. Shame on him. This mom gunned down execution-style at Christmas. Her killer, her cold-blooded killer, who did it all for 100 bucks and a 13-inch black and white TV, he balloons up to 450 pounds behind bars and then says he`s too fat to die.

To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," weigh in.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, this perp is glutinous in every way. He gobbled up a woman`s life. He spent hours with her prior to the death.

Imagine what went through his mind. He was probably not only casing the joint but trying to figure out how much money she had in her wallet and how satisfying it would be to murder her. So there`s so much excitement in this homicide and not only is he glutinous in jail in terms of consuming resources, medical resources, the resources of the community, now he`s gobbling up our time and attention, too.

So it`s not just gobbling up food and calories, it`s just taking in things and absorbing things that are not his to own and primarily he tried to own another person`s life for $100 and a TV set. He gobbled her up like he gobbles up Doritos and Ding Dongs and Twinkies and whatever else he could get in jail.

And what`s so disgusting is this -- his whole psychopathology not only went into the crime but now it`s gone into this clemency and the Parole Board has acted out his pathology with him and so has the governor where everyone is allowing him to get away with this. So what I see is the perpetrators` offending pattern is going on and on and on, and everybody is colluding with him.

GRACE: Out to Woodrow Tripp, former police commander.

Woody, I find it very interesting, very curious indeed, that he gets to know his victim before he murders her. Sits out in the lobby, I guess posing as a guest for hours on end, talking to her, chatting with her, passing the day with her, only to come back and murder her.

That`s very unusual. Usually killers, boom, they do the deed, it`s over. But this guy took his time getting to know the victim. That`s weird, Woody.

WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Well, Nancy, it`s kind of like the spider, you know, luring the fly into the web, so to speak. You know, it sounds like almost he was -- as he sat there he was becoming more and more comfortable with his environment, you know, being ready to strike when he felt, you know, it was at that right time, kind of like the spider sitting in the web, and that`s exactly what it sounded that he was doing.

GRACE: Well, you know, Woody, we`ve all heard of the last meal. I guess he won`t be planning his unlike his fellow inmate Gary Simmons Jr., who devoured a 29,000-calorie last meal. Two Pizza Hut pizzas, six pounds of cheese, 80 ounces of ranch dressing, family-sized bag of Doritos -- got to have those -- two strawberry milkshakes, super sized McDonald`s fries, two pints of strawberry ice cream.

Very quickly, before we come back on too fat to die, I`m going to tell you about a case alert. A U.S. Marine, John Hammar, is chained to a metal bed in Mexico jail tonight. Why? For allegedly having the wrong permit for an antique gun he openly declared.

Washington, D.C., Barack Obama, Congress, how can you put your head on your pillow tonight for Pete`s sake? Do something or you`re getting a lump of coal for Christmas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVIA HAMMAR, MOTHER OF MARINE VETERAN IMPRISONED IN MEXICO: Oh, my god. And I really thought he wasn`t in the prison. I thought someone has taken him out of the prison because I just couldn`t conceive of this going on in a government facility.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What did John tell you?

HAMMAR: He said, mom, you need to do whatever they say. They are really serious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This man, Ronald Post, convicted of a 1983 murder of Helen Vantz, a hotel clerk he shot twice in the head and then robbed while she worked at the then Slumber Inn.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Attorneys for Ronald Post claimed the convicted killer should not be executed because trying to kill a man that size would amount to a torturous and lingering death.

VANTZ: I`ve been waiting nearly 30 years for this. You know, I just want this over with.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In a release declaration Donald Morgan says 53-year-old convicted killer Ronald Ray Post is not too obese to be put to death.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 450-pound death row inmate has been granted clemency by the Ohio governor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why should he be any different than anybody else because he`s overweight? So we`re going to feed him for the rest of his life? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: With me, the victim`s family. Helen Vantz gunned down at Christmastime. She is working overnight at a Slumber Inn as a clerk. She took two bullets to the back of the head.

With me, Bill Vantz, her son, who has celebrated every Christmas since without his mother, and Sheryl Vantz, her daughter-in-law.

Bill Vantz, a quarter of a million dollars a year to house this guy? It`s incredible.

VANTZ: Yes. Just think of the millions of dollars in legal fees to defend him. I heard a figure back in the `90s where it was over $6 million at that point.

GRACE: I want to hear about your mother. I want to hear about what kind of mom Helen Vantz was before she was murdered.

VANTZ: Well, she was a great mother. She was a great grandmother to, you know, her one grandson at the time, my nephew. Now she never got to know my children. She would do anything for you. You know, if you needed $5, ask her. You know, if he would have walked in there and said, give me the money, she would have given it to him. No questions asked. You know? Here you go. Bye-bye. Go away.

He did a -- cowardly. To hang around 3:00 in the morning and shoot her between the hours of 4:00 and 6:00 a.m. in the back of the head, you know, it boggles my mind. And then to have Governor Kasich go, you`re OK, you know, we`re going to commute this to life imprisonment. No. When I originally met with the prosecutor and we talked and he laid out the punishments at that time 30 years ago, it was 30 years to life with the possibility of parole after 30 years for the death penalty.

And we both in agreement along with my family decided that we wanted full recourse of the law. And the full course of the -- recourse of the law at that point in time and still today is the death penalty in Ohio. And he did not get the death penalty. He deserves the death penalty. And because of Governor Kasich, he`s not going to get it.

You know, all the legal (INAUDIBLE), and everything that it`s a chess match and, unfortunately, the Parole Board decided to believe the lies that were contrived by Post for those 30 years while he sat behind bars.

GRACE: Well, what`s interesting, Bill Vantz -- with me is the victim, Helen Vantz`s son -- is that the governor appoints the director of parole and rehab and that director appoints the board of pardon and parole. They`re all just puppets being manipulated by the governor. And I don`t want anybody to get me wrong on this. I don`t care if he`s fat or skinny, just like the caller, Michelle from Florida said, I mean, you know what, being fat, being overweight is not a crime or I would definitely be in jail tonight.

That`s not what this is about. This is about what is right and wrong and what the governor of Ohio has done tonight to a victim and her family.

Out to the lines. Bonnie, Louisiana. Hi, Bonnie. What`s your question, dear?

BONNIE, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: -- justice for this mother, and was he that big when he was put in prison?

GRACE: Good question. Out to you, Phil Trexler, what do we know?

PHIL TREXLER, REPORTER, AKRON BEACON JOURNAL: Well, he went into prison, he was -- he was overweight obviously but he was about 250 pounds. So they estimated he`s gained 200 pounds during the time that he`s served on death row.

GRACE: What, to get out of death row? Did he do it on purpose to avoid execution?

TREXLER: Well, I`ve talked to other death row inmates who say, yes, in fact, that was his game plan. That he, in fact, would use his commissary money to buy all sorts of fatty foods, you know, Twinkies and honey buns and whatnot, and that was part of his plan. It was just -- yes, gain weight and hopefully avoid execution.

GRACE: So, Phil Trexler with "The Akron Beacon Journal." Phil, I understand that he -- in addition to whining behind bars all the time, he got married behind bars?

TREXLER: Yes. You know, that`s one of the things that are available to inmates in Ohio. They can, in fact, under certain circumstances, get married and, in fact, he did that while on death row.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Lynn in Georgia. Hi, Lynn. What`s your question, dear?

LYNN, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Well, I just wanted to say that I don`t care how big you are, you do something so heinous, you deserve what you get. And you can find a vein because you have veins all over you. So all you`ve got to do is go to his hand, put the IV in his hand and juice him. Or, I`ll even volunteer to sell that (INAUDIBLE) rug just get old Sparky ready. I`ll volunteer to do it. Because he deserves --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You know, Lynn in Georgia, as I recall, he had some -- keep Lynn in Georgia.

Lynn, you`re right. He had some type of infirmity and they actually found a vein on him a couple of years ago, and they had no problem at all doing it. Now he recently asked for gastric bypass surgery. He wanted to get trim for his new wife.

That`s what`s going down in Ohio tonight, everybody. You are seeing shots of Ronald Post. He`s gained about 200 pounds since he went behind bars for the execution-style murder of a mother just at Christmastime. Specifically in a bid to avoid the death penalty and, guess what, after he pleads guilty at trial in front of a judge, excuse me, there was no trial. He pled no contest. The Ohio governor says, yes, he will grant clemency.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 450-pound death row who claimed he was too fat to be executed had been granted clemency by the Ohio governor.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The warden tested a state`s execution table by putting 12 45-pound weights on top with no problem.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Post claimed he shouldn`t be executed because at nearly 500 pounds trying to kill him would amount to cruel and unusual punishment due to the fact that defense medical experts claimed doctors wouldn`t be able to find a vein.

VANTZ: One thing it`s laughable. He wasn`t obese when he pulled the trigger. He`s only gotten obese because it`s taken so long to get to this point. If it was 20 years ago he wasn`t have been this obese. I`ve got to blame the judicial system for that. I hold no bars against them. It`s -- the entire procedure was convoluted because he pleaded no contest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. I`ve got Lynn from Georgia. Also with me, Wendy Whitman, crime sleuth.

Weigh in, Whitman.

WENDY WHITMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, this is sadly to say just another blatant example of the legal system looking at and pretending the wrong people in this country and victims are treated like second class citizens to the point where we`ve had so many cases where a judge is actually reprimanded victims` families in court for showing emotion during autopsy photos and things like that.

And I don`t understand how victims` families deal with the way the legal system runs in this country.

GRACE: I want to go back to Lynn in Georgia, who just called in.

Lynn, what`s also amazing to me is that this is not death by old Sparky. This is not the electric chair.

LYNN: No.

GRACE: This is not death by hanging, this is not death by firing squad, which, you know, they had out in Utah. I`m told recently that was being used. This is death by lethal injection, which is is a combination of three different drugs. And it`s a combination because they don`t want the person to suffer. The killer does not suffer. They simply go to sleep. That`s all that happens. Lynn?

LYNN: It doesn`t matter how it happens. They need to get on with it. Quit wasting the taxpayers` money. And the people, the poor people that have to deal with him on a daily basis. Quit wasting their time. He is nothing but a waste of space.

GRACE: You know, I want to go back to the victim`s family, Helen Vantz. Bill Vantz is with us, her son, her daughter-in-law, Sheryl Vantz.

Sheryl, as we approach Christmas, how does the family really proceed with Christmas and actually celebrate when it`s also the marking of the mom`s murder?

SHERYL VANTZ, VICTIM`S DAUGHTER-IN-LAW, OUTRAGED KILLER WON`T BE EXECUTED: Well, Nancy, it has been -- I mean, you can imagine that first Christmas was absolutely horrible. And we got through the next few years, and then our children, Jessica -- our daughter Jessica was born. And then a year later our son Robert was born. They have spent Christmases without their grandmother.

The only thing my children ever knew about their grandmother is pictures and our memories and our stories. That`s all my children have ever had. So you know, Christmas is not a happy time at all. Never has been. Never will be.

Twenty-nine years ago I had to wake my husband up and tell him the coroner has your mother. Twenty-nine years later almost to the day I have to wake my husband up and tell him the governor has granted clemency.

OK. All these defense attorneys` talk about cruel and unusual punishment? What about our cruel and unusual punishment? We have been being punished for 29 years, and we still have no closure. I will have no closure until this man is six feet under.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero Army Sergeant Kenneth Nichols Jr., 28, Chrisman, Illinois. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, War on Terror Service medal. Loved his Harley, woodworking, being a father. Father Kenneth Sr., sisters Lisa and Cindy, widow Lexi. Two daughters and two sons.

Kenneth Nichols Jr., American hero.

Everyone, tonight as we approach the Christmas holiday, I have something special for you. There is happiness in the world. And I am so blessed to have it every time I go home from work.

And here is a special Christmas song from my two little elves, John David and Lucy. They are singing and dancing. And I videotaped it just for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s elf loose. Elf on the run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight a special good night from Georgia friends, Laura and Connor.

Everybody, Dr. Drew up next. But I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END