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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Shocking Testimony in Jodi Arias Trial so Far

Aired January 04, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, will Jodi Arias`s sexually- charged defense possibly sway some jurors that her violent actions, stabbing her ex-boyfriend 29 times and shooting him in the face, were not acts of jealous rage, but rather self-defense?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, is the case against Jodi Arias really as open and shut as most experts believe? Or could her stunning claims that her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, sexually degraded her be enough to sway one juror in this death penalty case? We`ll debate it tonight in our in-depth coverage of Arizona vs. Jodi Arias.

And later, why is "Jackass" and "Killer Karaoke" star Steve-O on a life-and-death mission? He`ll tell us on this show tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She took the knife and began to stab him when he was in that defenseless sitting position.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Travis grabbed her and spun her around. Afraid that he was going to hurt her, Jodi was actually relieved when all he did was bend her over the desk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ever been back in town?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Photographs from a digital camera that told a different story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had an immediate suspicion that it was Jodi who had done this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a print left on the wall in blood that led investigators to Jodi Arias.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: I would be shaking in my boots right now if I had to answer to God for a heinous crime.

WILLMOTT: In reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, an extraordinary first week in the Jodi Arias trial as sex, secrets, and graphic crime-scene photos spill out in the courtroom.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.

The beautiful 32-year-old photographer is accused of stabbing her ex- boyfriend, Travis Alexander, 29 times, slitting his throat from ear to ear and shooting him in the face. The testimony has stunned the courtroom. Jodi`s defense team claims Travis and Jodi engaged in kinky sex and role- playing sex games. Listen to this, and we have to warn you, it is explicit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLMOTT: As Travis would explain to Jodi, oral sex really isn`t as much of a sin for him as vaginal sex. And so he was able to convince her to give him oral sex. And later in their relationship, Travis would tell her that anal sex really isn`t much of a sin compared to vaginal sex. And so he was able to persuade her to allow him to have anal sex with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, the prosecution showed jurors very disturbing photos, like this one of the crime scene. And it shows the victim Travis in his shower just after he was murdered and the bloody and violent scene prosecutors say that Jodi Arias tried unsuccessfully to clean up. And the jurors heard Jodi`s web of lies from her own lips when prosecutors say they played a police phone interview. Listen to this litany of lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (via phone): Was there -- was there like any kind of weapons used here? Or was there -- was there a gun? He had his tires slashed. I don`t remember when it was. It was last year sometime around Christmas, I think.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was around April that you last saw him, right?

ARIAS: Early April.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven`t -- you haven`t been back in town since then?

ARIAS: No, I haven`t at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: At the heart of this trial, the jurors have to decide, was this woman forced to kill in self-defense? Or is she a calculated killer who drove more than 1,000 miles from northern California to Arizona with a gun to kill a man she thought was humiliating her?

Straight out to "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas. You`ve been in court for all this trial. What has been the most compelling piece of evidence or testimony so far?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, you know, Jane, probably the most compelling, since it is the state`s case, a series of photographs the state introduced basically transporting the jurors back in time to June 9, 2008, when the crime scene was discovered, when Travis Alexander`s body was discovered. They were graphic, they were gruesome, and they show a real violent fight for his life. That`s probably the most compelling of the first few days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the trial has been on for two days. As you mentioned, jurors saw these extremely gory photos from the crime scene. And we`ll showing you just a small sampling out of respect for the victim.

Jurors left the courtroom two days in a row with these -- that is the victim right there, in the shower. OK. That is his elbow right there next to the tub. You`re seeing some of the bloody photos. There`s a very, very bloody sink. There`s blood all over the place.

I`ve got to say, Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, some say that this is one of the most open-and-shut cases they`ve ever seen. The forensic evidence is compelling, overwhelming. Her palm print is found in the crime scene with her blood mixed with the victim, Travis Alexander`s blood.

There`s this camera. They take photos of themselves in sexual positions before the murder. Then there`s, according to prosecutors, scattered photos as the actual killing is happening where she`s accidentally hitting the camera and it clicks. And there`s a photo of him dead. It`s a caught-on-tape crime.

Is this the ultimate open-and-shut case? Or is there no such thing as an open-and-shut case?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think we all know there`s no such thing as an open-and-shut case, Jane. And the problem is, yes, this is a horrific scene, and these are bloody details, but we know she was there. So finding her blood mixed with his blood and her palm print, that`s not the question. The question for these jurors is going to be why did this happen?

And the state has a problem, in my opinion, because their theory is inconsistent. They say up front she`s very calculating and methodical. She planned this. She dyed her hair. She rented a car. She drove 1,000 miles. But the killing is not at all calculated. If she`s going there to murder someone who she hates, I`ve looked at the autopsy, Jane. There are no stab wounds to the face and no stab wounds to the genitalia...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s a shot to the face.

HUGHES: This is not planned -- OK, but that -- after everything is said and done, this is a frenzied attack. If she was planning on killing a man because he dumped her and humiliated her, you would expect to see, as we have and many others, stab wounds in the face to obliterate this person that humiliated her and in the genitalia, because he treated her so poorly. That`s not what we have.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me bring in Jon Lieberman.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Perhaps the only question is in this case -- it`s not whether she did it. It`s not whether she`s guilty. I said this months ago right from this chair.

This defense believes she`s going to be found guilty. It`s just a matter of trying to keep her off of Death Row.

And Holly brought up one interesting and good point, in my opinion. And that is was this a pre-meditated murder? Or did she end up murdering him after they get into some sort of argument there at the house?

But here`s where I think the defense is going wrong. The defense is attacking the victim`s credibility. This victim who we see in the crime scene photos is lying there dead. Well, the fact of the matter is, Jodi Arias has no credibility at all. She is seen lying, heard lying. I don`t know how many more ways she could have lied in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what that reminds me of? Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, Casey Anthony. We all know what happened in that case. Convicting somebody of lying is not the same thing as convicting them of murder.

And I will say that it would seem that, just like there were wild cards in that case and one of them was the defendant`s attractiveness and the sexual component, the dirty dancing, et cetera, sex appears to be the wild card in this case, too, Mike Brooks.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It does. But you know, you`re looking to that conversation with the lead detective and Jodi Arias on June 10.

I was listening to that, Jane. And the first time I`ve heard that, Jane, I said, who does this sound like? Lying to the officer, very calm, very chatty. Who did it seem like? Casey Anthony. But, we know what that jury came back with. And all it takes is one, one in this case here, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That`s the thing. And I do believe that there is no such thing as an open-and-shut case.

BROOKS: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because I`ve sat in so many courtrooms where everybody -- literally, I`m surrounded by reporters in the Michael Jackson child molestation trial who -- who essentially called me an idiot, because I said, no, I think that there may be a chance. And of course, Michael Jackson was acquitted.

This sexual angle is fascinating, because sex is such a core issue that affects people in such wildly different ways.

Now, it appears from Jodi`s phone call with the lead detective right after the body was found and the defense attorney`s line of questioning that their -- the defense is all about trying to show that this couple was into kinky sex and that he was sort of sexually -- they`re claiming -- don`t blame the messenger -- they`re claiming deviant in some way and that they were into dominant-submissive role playing.

Listen to this from the phone call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I practically lived there. I spent the night there several times a week when I lived there. I came over, and cleaned his house a lot. He paid me a little bit every month to keep his house nice and clean, sort of like a housekeeper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing an e-mail from Mr. Alexander to Ms. Arias where he provides her a picture of the French maid outfit that he would like her to don when she cleans his apartment, or his home, excuse me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, doesn`t sound familiar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi`s attorneys also claim Travis made this T-shirt for Jodi that reads "Travis Alexander`s," apostrophe "S." That was his way of saying, according to the defense, that he owned her.

So I want to bring in Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist out of Los Angeles. Yes, on the face of it, kinky sex games between two consenting adults are completely irrelevant to a crime, a violent crime. But sex is that -- that crazy wild card, and you don`t know how it`s going to affect people, because it goes right through the conscious mind into the subconscious.

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. I think what the defense is trying to do here is make an emotional appeal. And what we know is the emotional appeal is much better than the logical appeal. We have the facts. We know that Jodi was at the crime scene. There were photographs. There`s tons of forensic evidence. So there`s not a question of whether or not she actually did this. It`s more just why did she do it?

And by using the sexual angle, that he was degrading her, that there were all of these elements where he was treating her like a possession, it`s really going to maybe shake at least one juror to saying, "You know what? I believe that she did this to protect herself. And because he had treated her so badly, this is why she did this in a time of passion. That this was not premeditated." And that will make a big difference in terms of the sentencing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know a lot of the panelists are shaking their head. We`re just getting started with this debate. More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On June 9, 2008, Travis Alexander`s friends discovered his decomposing body in the shower of his master bathroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom. We hadn`t heard from him for a while. We think he`s dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON MORTENSEN, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Jodi was one of the people that came to that memorial service, which would have been a week after he passed away. And after I had spoken and used some images to -- to kind of talk about Travis and some things that I remembered of him, she came up to me afterwards and was, you know, sad. And then she asked if she could have a digital copy of what I had written and the pictures that I had used to kind of tell the story. And in retrospect, I guess that seems kind of bizarre with everything that we -- that we`ve learned about her since then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That young man who spoke with us exclusively on this show last night, a good friend of Travis Alexander`s who said that he was doing the best he can to be an upright member of society that he was an inspirational friend and motivational speaker.

He was a Mormon. And according to the Mormon religion, he was supposed to remain sexually abstinent until marriage.

And this is something that the defense keeps honing in on, as if hypocrisy, even if he is a hypocrite -- I don`t know. But even if he was a hypocrite, the penalty for that is not being murdered.

The defense claimed that Travis tied Jodi up. We don`t know if Travis tied Jodi up. That`s what the defense claims. But both sides agree they did have sex the day that he was murdered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLMOTT: She knew that the one thing that calms his temper the quickest is sex. So as she`s telling him, "It`s OK, I`ll fix it, don`t worry," Travis grabbed her and spun her around. Afraid that he was going to hurt her, Jodi was actually relieved when all he did was bend her over the desk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If a woman is willingly engaged in sexually-degrading sex with a lover -- this is two consenting adults -- while that lover`s pursuing some kind of good and pure woman -- we`re going to get to that in a minute -- well, that may be a problem for her. But that doesn`t justify homicide.

Now, Shanna Hogan, you`re a journalist and a true crime author. You`re writing a book about this case.

A lot of the defense seems to be trying to paint the victim, who`s not here to defend himself, as some kind of hypocrite that, you know, he`s a practicing Mormon but yet he`s having, secretly, sex with this woman who`s accused now of killing him.

You`ve talked to Mormons in the community or people in that area. What are they saying about this Mormon angle?

SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST: You know, I really didn`t expect the Mormon angle to be played up as much in court as -- as it is being. You know, I thought maybe, if he ended up killing her because he was trying to hide this secret sexual tryst, maybe that made sense.

But, you know, the defense really came out with this whole he was sinning, so that makes him a bad person. But the prosecution has countered that and said, "You know what? Was she a Mormon, too? Did she convert?" Because she was sinning, too. There`s no double standard with that.

But what I`ve learned in the Mormon church is that, you know, when you sin, if you have a sexual indiscretion, you -- there`s ways to repent for that and to make amends and to get back into the church. And what we know about Travis is that he was actually not allowed in the temple. He was not what they consider temple worthy for a while. And that was likely because of his sexual indiscretions with Jodi. So he was trying to make amends for that towards the end of his life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. We`ve covered so many trials. I mean, seems like they`re throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. And now they`re trying to bring his religion. They have brought his religion, the victim`s religion into this.

And again, well, who -- who amongst us lives a perfect life?

BROOKS: Nobody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But in any case, what does that have to do with her killing him in this vicious way?

BROOKS: Well, it has absolutely nothing. But what they`re trying to say is that he was so controlling, you know, when they talked about, oh, having sex this way or having sex that way, you know, isn`t a sin in the Mormon religion.

I mean, they have to walk a fine line here, though, Jane, because how is that going to play if you`re constantly berating the victim here and you look at the pictures of this crime scene? You know, how is that going to play the jury? And they`re going to say, you know what? I don`t care what religion you are. A lot of things go on behind closed doors that people don`t want other people to know about.

But did he -- did she kill him because she was trying to defend herself and she was in fear of her life? I don`t think it`s going to fly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman.

LIEBERMAN: I know. And here`s the other thing. There are going to be witnesses that testify that she was the one that continued to pursue him, as well. You`re going to hear a lot of that in this case. All of this is just a smoke screen. Their sex life isn`t on trial. This is a murder trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, it is a wild card. Because people do not always reason logically. Ninety-nine percent of all communication is nonverbal.

And as you mentioned, all it takes is her -- and she`s sobbing. I think we have some video of her sobbing. She`s been sobbing since the opening statement. Every time the camera goes on her, she`s sobbing, it seems. And that has an emotional impact on the jurors.

Who knows what their life history is, vis-a-vis maybe being dumped, maybe being humiliated by a lover at one point in their lives, and whether that resonates with them.

HUGHES: And what I think the defense is trying to do here is not so much put the victim on trial as show that he was one way in public. He had a public persona. All of his friends said he was a good Mormon man. He had all this great moral character.

And what the defense needs to do in order to corroborate the self- defense is say, "Yes, that`s fine. He was that way out front." But behind closed doors, like we`ve talked about multiple times, we know -- and the defense will be calling a domestic violence expert later on to say you can be very different when you`re in a sexual relationship than the person you show to be.

So I find it interesting that, when the prosecution puts in all of her bad stuff, it`s evidence. When the defense puts in his own words, his e- mails, they`re not calling it evidence. All of a sudden they`re calling it character assassination.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re going to play some of those e-mails and some more sound of this extraordinary trial on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I didn`t commit a murder. I didn`t hurt Travis. I would never hurt Travis. I would never harm him physically. I may have hurt him emotionally, and I`ll always regret that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLMOTT: Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. There is no question about it. The million-dollar question is what would`ve forced her to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias has shown a brazen streak during this entire trial. She`s there putting on make-up before giving national interviews behind bars. She`s joined singing contests.

But perhaps her most brazen mood was to call the lead detective right after Travis` body was discovered by his friends and offer police assistance. She even tells cops, who recorded the phone call, he might want to check out one of Travis` former roommates as a suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: You might want to talk to a guy named Thomas Brown. And I don`t think that -- honestly, I haven`t seen or heard from him since he was kicked out. I think his last name was Brown. I can try to find him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Given that Jodi has now admitted that she killed Travis in self-defense, to me, Beth Karas, this strikes me as particularly sinister that she seems to be proactively trying to point the finger at an innocent man. How does that undermine her claim that she killed in self- defense, because Travis was getting rough with her?

KARAS: Well, it undermines it a lot. I really don`t know what her explanation is going to be. Maybe we`ll hear it from the domestic violence expert who will give some explanation of why an abused victim would -- would lie the way she did.

I mean, she had two vastly different stories before finally asserting self-defense in June of 2010, two months -- two years after she was arrested. You know, she first said she hadn`t seen him, and then she said she was there and two intruders did it. Why isn`t she saying she was fearful of him? I guess maybe she thought the worst would happen -- what has happened, that she would be charged with murder and all and, you know, few people are believing her self-defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Holly Hughes, this is the big problem for her. I mean, not just the overwhelming forensic evidence, the caught-on-tape murder on camera, but the fact that not only is she lying, but goes out of her way to try to point the finger at an innocent man. Is that going to wipe out any sympathy that she may have garnered from telling these stories about being sexually humiliated, allegedly?

HUGHES: Not completely, but it is a big hurdle for the defense. It`s kind of like when you walk in and the cookie jar shattered in the kitchen, and you say to your kid, "Did you do that when you were stealing cookies?"

"No, no, no, no. I didn`t do it. My friend Jason did it when he was over after school."

Then you start to show them evidence. You go, "You don`t have a friend Jason."

Oops. OK, I need to change my story.

Then, "Grandma says you weren`t doing your homework like you were supposed to. You were in the kitchen."

Then when you start to hit them with all this evidence, the kid has to admit the truth, and he says, "Well, you know what, Mom? I wasn`t stealing cookies. I was throwing the football in the house, and that`s when I broke the jar."

So they`re going to have to explain why she`s doing this. And I think the domestic violence expert they have on hand will explain.

You know, she`s very immature, Jane, putting on make-up, doing all these interviews. I think this was an immature, scared reaction, and I think the expert is going to be the best one to talk about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Selin Darkalstanian, HLN producer, you`ve been in court monitoring reaction. What`s the buzz in the courthouse? I mean, we were stunned watching this feed on tape and seeing some of this incredible testimony and graphic testimony, graphic photos. What`s the reaction in the court and around the court?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: The courtroom was very, very tense. You could hear a pin drop yesterday as all these numerous photos of the house and the crime scene were shown.

You have to understand, the jury is sitting there, and Travis Alexander`s family has the first two rows of the courtroom. So the jury can see Travis Alexander`s family in clear view crying, sobbing, hugging each other, holding each other, and they can see everything going on in the courtroom in clear view.

So it`s very tense. It`s very, very emotional. And the jury is very into it, by the way. They are leaning forward in their chairs. They`re listening. They`re looking at the photos. They`re listening to the phone conversations. They are looking around the room. They`re looking at Jodi. So they`re very into this.

And I have to say, there hasn`t been one dull moment in this case since this trial started two days ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I will also say that you can never predict what a juror is really thinking.

On the other side, we`ll debate more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who?

ARIAS: I don`t know who they were. I couldn`t pick them out in a police lineup.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what happened?

ARIAS: They came into his home and attacked us both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias crying again and she was hiding her face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She sounded dangerous. She had broken into his e-mail accounts, his bank accounts, she would sneak into his house through the doggie door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A series of graphic bloody photographs of Travis Alexander`s master bathroom that suggests a horrific and violent fight for his life.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I just wanted to offer any assistance. I was a really good friend of Travis`. I heard that he was -- that he passed away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They stared and they took notes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. The million dollar question is what would`ve forced her to do it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: And the jurors saw extraordinarily graphic photos. You`re seeing photos of Travis Alexander in the shower, dead. And Jodi Arias who admits she killed him but says it was self- defense apparently tries to clean up the crime scene, but it`s unsuccessful because there is blood found everywhere -- overwhelming forensic evidence.

And her palm print is found at the scene and the blood is hers and the victim`s mixed together. What could be better evidence than that? Oh, how about the murder caught on tape? And prosecutors say the camera was accidentally clicked -- accidentally clicked revealing the moment of the killing.

The lead investigator reveals some sexually explicit and degrading messages that the victim, Travis Alexander, had sent Jodi during an argument they had. This is the other side of the coin. Is this going to have an impact? We have to warn you, the wording is very graphic, but this is what was said in open court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Miss Arias as a quote, "(EXPLETIVE DELETED)"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a slut?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the prosecution pointed out, the only reason Travis wrote those words is because they said he felt that Jodi was sexually degrading him -- again, some graphic material.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: With regard to that reference involving that particular comment, why was that comment made as indicated in that document?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: References to being used sexually by Miss Arias.

MARTINEZ: What is he saying?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specifically, let me read it from here. "I think I was little more than a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with a heartbeat to you."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, what impact is all this sexual testimony going to have? I see it kind of as like a metaphorical hand grenade thrown into the case to confuse people. And when I see confusion in a jury, I often see reasonable doubt. What say you?

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re absolutely right. I think what`s happening now is because they`re throwing this sexual -- sort of like a grenade like you just described, they`re really taking the issue away from what the main topic is here in this case. They`re trying to get the jurors really riled up, really emotional. They`re confusing them. And it`s going to be really difficult when you really talk about what reasonable doubt means when they get to that point, when they`re deliberating.

And it only takes one person to respond to something somewhere in the case, and it could be from their personal experience, it could be that they saw Jodi crying. Something could happen and one juror will say, "You know what; I think that something is different. I really don`t know if I feel comfortable saying that Jodi did this as a premeditated murder." And then that will change everything.

(CROSSTALK)

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Here`s a couple things. Yes, it only takes one juror. But let me tell you this, there`s no link between all this sex stuff and acting in self-defense. In my opinion, the only way to reach even one juror to raise reasonable doubt is to put Jodi on the stand. They`re going to have to hear from her. They`re going to have to feel something for her.

But, of course, the problem with doing that from the defense`s viewpoint is the prosecution is going to rip her apart because her repeated lies. But I truly believe the only way, the only chance in the world that they have with even one juror is to put her on the stand and let her tell how she felt threatened in those final moments and see if it flies. I don`t think it will.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Frankly, I think that all this sex talk actually could backfire on the defense and prove the prosecution`s point that she killed him in a premeditated fashion because she was furious that he was having sex with her but didn`t consider her marriage material. To wit, the prosecution`s very first witness was a Mormon woman Travis was pursuing before he died and had even planned to take this woman on a trip to Mexico that he had won. Listen to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: Even a few weeks before, like before we went, again, I told him, "Travis, maybe you should take somebody else to Cancun with you." And there wasn`t anyone else that he wanted to take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The woman on the left, Mimi Hall, told Travis she just wanted to be friends but Travis seemed to want a relationship with her. Meanwhile, he`s having sex with Jodi but doesn`t want to take her on vacation and doesn`t seem to consider her marriage material.

Beth Karas, essentially, are we talking about -- you know, unfortunately, these old sayings and these cliches have a grain of truth in them and that`s why they become cliches, sort of like the good girl/bad girl syndrome.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV: You know, there`s no question that Travis Alexander had to have been conflicted inside. Because it may not be a double life, but he did have a lot of sex with Jodi Arias and he was grappling with that. And he considered himself no longer temple-worthy, which is what Mimi hall testified to. She said she didn`t ask Travis what he meant by that, but now we know. It maybe he considered himself not temple-worthy in his faith because of the way he had been conducting himself.

And the defense says that Travis Alexander flew into a rage just seconds before Jodi Arias killed him because she dropped his brand new digital camera. She`d been taking photos. But the state says, oh, no, no, no -- she took a series of photos.

The last photo, he`s sort of crouched in a pose in the shower and that`s when the state says she took the opportunity to drive a knife into his heart. And he had cuts on his hand --

LEIBERMAN: Yes.

KARAS: -- he probably grabbed the blade. He was alive, he wasn`t shot at that point and he fought her and then, you know, he had his throat slit and was shot at the end.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In an eerie irony, less than a month before Travis` death he blogged about dating and, quote, "trying to find out if my date has an axe murderer penned up inside her." That`s very, very bizarre and sad. He also talks about how he liked and even relished being single in his 20s and used to imagine himself as someone dangerously handsome, a tycoon in "Time" magazine, but that right before his death he realized it was time to adjust my priorities with marriage in mind.

So Shanna Hogan, could this prove the state`s case that Jodi was in a jealous rage because she wasn`t considered marriage material even though he had sex with her?

SHANNA HOGAN, TRUE CRIME AUTHOR (via telephone): Oh my God, absolutely. I`ve said from the beginning that I think the defense`s case is almost putting a motive for why she murdered him. They`re painting her as kind of a jealous person who was a sexual toy. And what more better reason is there for murdering someone than being used and abused throughout this relationship? And then at the end being told that, you know what, you were never marriage material to begin with.

And I`ve also said from the beginning, I think that there -- I know Arizona juries, I don`t know outside of the state juries. I cover Arizona cases. I don`t think that there`s an Arizona jury that will not find her guilty. But I don`t think they`ll sentence her to death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve got a lot of predictions. We are all over this case. We`re covering it every single day. So keep it here, 7:00 p.m. Eastern for the latest on the Jodi Arias case.

And just minutes from now don`t miss "NANCY GRACE MYSTERIES". Check out Nancy`s take on the first two days of the Jodi Arias trial. Stay tuned for that 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on HLN.

And coming up next, we`ve got an unbelievable guest. He`s very famous, and he`s got a message for you. Stay right there.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re all over the Jodi Arias case 7:00 p.m. Eastern -- every detail of this extraordinary case. The crime scene photos, the audiotapes recorded by police, the incriminating comments that the defendant made. Keep it here for the latest from court.

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Steve-O: Hi, I`m Steve-O. Pigs like Nikki are some of the smartest animals on earth, even smarter than the dogs and cats we live with. That`s why I stopped eating meat. And it was so easy, it`s ridiculous.

If you make the same choice, every year you will personally spare 31 animals like Nikki from a life of daily misery. And I`m here to help.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s a guy who knows how to make people laugh. Steve-O is a household name performing wild stunts with the rest of the Jackass crew. Check it out.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready Steve-O?

Steve-O: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order up. Two cocktails supreme.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Steve-O who would do anything for a laugh is getting real serious in an effort to highlight the horrors of factory farming. Steve-O took part in a new documentary by the amazing organization Farm Sanctuary" called "What Came Before".

Now I have to warn you, some of these images are disturbing but it`s important that we witness it for a second so we can do something about it because together we can change this. Look.

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Steve-o: As terrible as the flood was for Nikki and her babies, it actually saved their lives because what came before was even worse.

At a nearby factory farm, Nikki had spent her entire life locked in a metal cage so small she could barely move. Pigs like Nikki are raised in such cramped conditions they often go insane from stress, abuse, and lack of mental stimulation.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the one and only Steve-O. Steve-O, I`m so happy to see you. Congratulations on your new show "Killer Karaoke" -- we`re going to talk about that in a second.

But first tell us why you got involved with this new documentary, "What Came Before" with Farm Sanctuary?

STEVE-O: Honestly, I can`t really remember. I suppose I heard about it and, I wanted to kind of get behind the message. So I said I`d be happy to help.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it`s an extraordinary documentary. It really tells a story of three animals, a pig and a cow and a chicken that escaped from factory farms. Let`s take a look at the first. Nikki, the pig.

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STEVE-O: When devastating floods hit Iowa, Nikki was washed away from a factory farm. Nikki swam for miles before making her way to a levee where she built a nest, gave birth to seven piglets and spent the next week protecting them from the flood.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love this documentary because there are nine billion farm animals raised and killed for food in these factory farms that are unimaginable that Americans are finally standing up against.

But you tell the story of an individual pig. And people can relate to an individual where they can`t relate to a statistic like nine billion. Talk to me about that, Steve.

STEVE-O: Well, yes, I think you`re absolutely right. Whenever you can -- even give one of these animals a name, I think you`re doing something -- something pretty major. You know, because people just like to think of it as -- and people don`t want to think of their meal as a living thing that has, you know, a name or a personality or anything like that. And by talking about just one pig, you know, you -- I don`t know, I think you really get through to people in a special way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. This documentary`s amazing. We`re going to tell you where you can see it. "What Came Before" Farm Sanctuary put it together with Steve-O.

Now Steve, you said you gave up meat and then about a month later you went into rehab to get sober. So you and I have something in common because I`m sober and I`m a vegan. But were they related to you? Did giving up meat feel like a first step in sort of creating a different --

STEVE-O: Sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell me about that.

STEVE-O: Well, you know -- and by the way, I love that we have that in common so much, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Me too.

STEVE-O: You know, people who are in recovery talk about building self-esteem through esteemable acts. Basically you do stuff that you feel good about and the end result is that you have improved self-esteem. And I found that my diet choices really did that for me. And it`s an esteemable act when you make the choice to be compassionate in your diet.

And at first I just stopped eating meat except for fish. And the result was I felt so good about it and I was really so rewarded by that that I wanted to do more and more.

And I have a friend who works for PETA named Michelle. And I would call Michelle with different questions. Like, I remember being -- I was buying a new pillow for my half way house that I was living in. And I called up Michelle and I asked her, Michelle, are pillows that have feathers in them cruel? And Michelle said, oh, yes, they`re terribly cruel. You know, they`re ripping these feathers out of birds while they`re still alive and it`s just horrible.

So I made the decision to buy a pillow that didn`t have feathers. And I never ever made any kind of sacrifice for making that decision. It`s just as good of a pillow, the one that didn`t have feathers. And, again, the result was I felt like I did something good and I felt good about it and improved my self-esteem.

So more and more, I just found ways to make decisions that were more compassionate. And I just wound up being a full-on vegan. I love it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I interviewed you quite a few years ago when you were still not sober and we had a fun conversation. And we felt a connection. And who knew that here years later we would both be vegan and sober. I know you`re changing because so many people look up to you -- boys, guys, and girls. And so you`re changing hearts and minds with your own actions.

And people look at you and say, wow, you know, I like this Steve-O. You`re a very smart guy but I have to say I like this Steve-O, the sober vegan Steve-O.

More on the other side.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for our "Pet o` the Day". Send us your pet picks to hlntv.com/jane. Gracie, oh, my gosh, that pink is fabulous on you. Nick, well, you caught me to the quick. And, Jaz, very aptly named. You look like you`re about to go and do a little jazz dancing. Baby, you are an adorable baby.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That is "Killer Karaoke", a very funny new show on our sister channel TruTV. It airs 9:00 p.m. on Fridays. Got to check it out.

Steve-O, you and I have more in common, we`re both vegans. We`re both sober. And I also have rescue dogs and you have two rescue pups. Let`s check out this clip and then we`ll talk about it.

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STEVE-O: Getting a dog for me was like getting a cell phone, you know. The things you get, how did I ever live without this? And what would I ever do if I didn`t have it anymore, you know? That`s how I feel about my dogs. They`ve enriched my life so much.

I have to show a picture. You see here that`s Walter and that`s Bernie.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I love it. And you`re, what, skateboarding with them? Now how are you impacting other kids? I mean, you are the key demo, that 18-year-old teenage boy. How are you impacting them in terms of their lifestyle? Are people coming up to you and saying, you know, I`m hearing what you`re saying about compassionate eating and I`m hearing what you`re saying about adopting animals and not shopping for them. I`m hearing what you`re saying about these factory farm animals or not?

STEVE-O: I imagine that -- I mean certainly there`s been some people that said that they`ve become vegan, they`ve stopped eating meat. They got sober. I guess there`s certain people that I have had some influence on. I`m sure there`s a lot of other people who think that I`m soft and I`m not crazy anymore.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a good thing. That is a good thing. And before -- I want to show this other clip of Fanny the cow. This is from the movie you are involved in. She was unable to stand after living in a factory farm, but there`s a happy ending. Check it out.

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STEVE-O: At just 4 years old Fanny was so sick and crippled from her life on a farm that she was unable to even stand before being rescued and brought to Farm Sanctuary. Cows like Fanny are intelligent. They remember faces for years.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, 20 seconds, what do you have to say to Fanny the cow that escaped from the factory farm?

STEVE-O: Well, I just hope that everything is cool. I think that -- I don`t know -- I should say more than that. I think a lot more people are waking up to the cause and, you know, Albert Einstein, he was vegan. Leonardo da Vinci was vegan. These guys were smart dudes. And more and more people --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bill Clinton has gone vegan.

STEVE-O: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Tyson has gone vegan. A lot of people are going vegan.

STEVE-O: I know it`s becoming kind of a good thing and, you know, people need to wake up to the health risks of eating meat, you know. If everybody was vegan, we wouldn`t have the problems with heart disease, diabetes, obesity, you know, all kinds of -- even cancer, you know. People would be a lot healthier if everybody was vegan.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.

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STEVE-O: Symphony was one of millions of egg-laying hens confined on a single farm in Ohio. Symphony`s life was also saved by a natural disaster. Tornadoes demolished the dark warehouse she was kept in.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, again, you can relate to one individual animal where you can`t relate to thousands or billions that are killed every year.

To see the full documentary of "What Came Before" go to whatcamebefore.com or farmsanctuary.org or you can get all of the information on my Facebook page JaneVelezMitchellFacebook or hlntv.com/Jane.

Ten seconds, what would you say to America, Steve-O? Final words.

STEVE-O: You know, check out this documentary. You don`t have to go vegan in one day. Just start cutting meat out of your diet. You`re going to be a lot happier and a lot healthier.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve-O, it`s so good to see you. We had an instant connection when we first met and I know why now.

Nancy Grace is up next.

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