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Two Teenaged Football Players Accused of Raping 16-year-old Girl; Christie Attacks Boehner Over Sandy Aid Bill

Aired January 05, 2013 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Deborah Feyerick in for Don Lemon. The stories you're talking about in just a moment.

But first, let's get you up to speed on some of the day's headlines.

Aurora, Colorado, the scene of a deadly movie theater massacre last summer is dealing with a new tragedy tonight. A barricaded gunman and three other people are dead after an early morning stand- off. Police say the gunman opened fire on officers after hours of negotiation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEANT CASSIDEE CARLSON, AURORA POLICE DEPARTMENT: A SWAT team was called out. They set up. Hostage negotiators tried to get the suspect to come outside. We made multiple attempts. Had intermittent phone conversations with the suspect throughout the morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Officers shot and killed the gunman and found two men and a woman dead inside the home. A woman had escaped earlier and told police she had seen three lifeless bodies inside. Aurora is the same Denver suburb where a gunman opened fire last summer in a theater killing 12 people.

Is Lance Armstrong about to come clean? A published report says the cycling great is thinking about admitting that he used performance-enhancing drugs. "The New York Times" reports Armstrong is considering it, hopeful he may return to competition.

Italian fashion mogul, Vittorio Missoni and his wife are missing. A small plane they were in disappeared off the coast of Venezuela yesterday. Missoni is the marketing manager for his Italian fashion house, Missoni. He is known around the world as an ambassador for the brand which is also featured in Target stores here in the United States.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

FEYERICK: Venezuelans rallied for their ailing president. Hugo Chavez has had four cancer operations and is currently being treated in Cuba. Venezuela's vice president says the next health update on Chavez will come in a few days. He's supposed to be inaugurated, Hugo Chavez, for a fourth term next week.

We have a lot more planned for this Saturday night. Here's what else we are working on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Accusations of rape rattle a small Ohio town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of us need to pay attention to this.

FEYERICK: Shocking an entire nation. An attorney for one of the accused, the woman who felt a crime was being covered up. And our own Dr. Drew Pinsky are part of our extended coverage this hour.

When was the last time you heard a politician talk like this --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty six days and counting, shame on you, shame on Congress.

FEYERICK: New jersey's Chris Christie winning over voters from both parties. Is it hard talk or hot air?

And Don Lemon with William Shatner who sat days are stunned. I can't get that song out of my head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you are getting out of your mind.

FEYERICK: Because you've never seen captain Kirk like this before.

FEYERICK: All that and more coming up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: And Don's interview comes later this hour. But first, it is a case that is dividing a small town and attracting national media attention. Startling allegations of teenagers raping an underage girl. The accused are two 16-year-old high school football players who allegedly sexually assaulted the girl while partying one night this summer. Amid allegations of cover-up, an intense social media pressured leaders in Steubenville, Ohio, are speaking out defending their investigations and that went the community updated on their progress. Protesters rallied today to support the alleged victim and to protest the town's handling of the case.

Meantime, the newly launched Steubenvillefacts.org was created by city leaders to, in their words, "disseminate the most accurate information about a recent case involving sexual assault charges pending against two juveniles in Steubenville," end of quote.

But the now very public rape case wasn't always so public. Activist hacker group anonymous is responsible for posting a video of teenagers in the town cracking jokes about the alleged incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if that was your daughter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it isn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that was my daughter, I wouldn't care, I would just let her be dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to your yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm listening to myself fine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In about ten years, I'm going to come back to this video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten years, my daughter's going to be getting raped and dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Anonymous later released a photograph apparently showing the alleged victim unconscious and being carried by her arms and legs. CNN cannot confirm the girl in the photo is the alleged victim. But it's the release of this photo that created a wave of social media attention and an increase in media coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB FITZSIMMONS, ATTORNEY OF ALLEGED OHIO RAPE VICTIM: It's kind of unfolded and then it just grew beyond al proportions that we ever thought, with the pictures and the graphic descriptions of the boy that was on the video the other day talking about this from that particular night. This young lady didn't know what happened. That's what I believe that the case is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: The case gained national attention after "The New York Times" published a lengthy piece on it in December. The controversy has shaken the town. Some residents even accusing outsiders of trying to ruin the reputation of the town's high school football team. An attorney for one of the defended, Ma'lik Richmond, one of the accused says the photos and videos have been taken out of context.

The attorney for the other teen charged, Trent Mays claims Mays had a text message sent from the alleged victim, a 16-year-old girl saying quote, "I know you didn't rape me," unquote.

Let me bring in Walter Madison, attorney for one of the accused boys, Ma'lik Richmond.

And Mr. Madison, let's look at this picture that shows your client holding the alleged victim's legs. It is a disturbing photo to watch. How does your client explain it?

Sir, can you hear us? Can you hear us? Sir, can you hear us? It's Deborah Feyerick at CNN. Can you hear us now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear them at all?

WALTER MADISON, ATTORNEY OF MA'LIK RICHMOND: I hear you now.

FEYERICK: OK. Mr. Madison, can you hear us? Mr. Madison?

MADISON: No audio.

FEYERICK: Mr. Madison?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear them?

MADISON: No.

FEYERICK: We're having a little bit of audio difficulty right there. We are going to come straight back to him.

But right now, let's move on. A defense attorney for the other accused teen spoke to our own Susan Candiotti and he claims that a text message may be a crucial piece of evidence in the upcoming trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM NEMANN, ATTORNEY FOR TRENT MAYS: I would like to bring up an interesting fact that we do plan on presenting at trial, is that my client received a text message the following day from the alleged victim. The alleged victim herself stating that she said, I know you didn't rape me.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What?

NEMANN: She texted my client the next day stating, quote, I know you didn't rape me.

CANDIOTTI: Do you have that text?

NEMANN: We do. And that is something that is going to be introduced at trial.

CANDIOTTI: And what -- did he reply?

NEMANN: That's something that's going to be introduced at trial, yes.

CANDIOTTI: Why do you think she sent that?

NEMANN: Because I don't think she thinks she was raped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, he would not allege or show us that text. Now, we want to go -- we've re-established contact with Mr. Madison.

Sir, you represent one of the accused boys, Ma'lik Richmond. How does your client explain the photo taken in which he is shown holding the alleged victim by her hands or feet?

MADISON: Well, a photograph is just a moment in time. It's that millimeter or millisecond, however the shutter speed is set on the particular camera. And although pictures can be misleading and in this case out of context, it does not suggest the activity prior to the photo being taken and/or after the photo that was taken. And obviously it's a still so there's no audio.

There will be evidence and discussion around the circumstances before and after the photograph, you know. The context of the whole entire evening in particular at that time with the photo, it's really unfair that it's made its way around the internet in the fashion that it has. And this is one of the major problems we're encountering at this point with social media.

FEYERICK: But sir, let me interrupt for just a moment. Because it's not a question the fact that the photo is making its way around the Internet. The problem is that the photo exists at all. If it weren't for the evidence, the tweets, the postings and the various social media, this case wouldn't be getting the attention that it's gotten so far. Does your client admit to having sex with the alleged victim?

MADISON: In this case, those particular facts, we have to allow the court to examine and so that they can be fully vetted. You know, one of the things that really troubles all parties here is that we're all looking for justice. That's what this system is designed to do. And the fact that, you know, the ultimate question of whether or not there was sex, in this state, there's multiple ways other than a traditional concept of sex that one may be accused of rape, you know.

So, there could be digital penetration, there could be oral penetration or that with an object. And I'm not specifying, what is the allegation or which method is the allegation for the state at this point. What I'm saying is that there are more than one way that a person may assume constitutes rape. And more than one of those ways maybe at issue in this particular case.

FEYERICK: Correct, sir and I understand that. But the prosecutors are charging your client with sexual assault of this young lady who they say was either too drunk to know or had by that point passed out and didn't know what was going on. So, sort of technicalities aside, the question is, has your client admitted to being there and admitted to being with this young woman on that night?

MADISON: Well, subsequent to the photograph, there's evidence that she was conscious and that she was capable of making decisions and speaking and exhibiting, you know, decision-making activity. So, again, the question -- the photo is out of context. And those are the things that we must wait to see.

You know, thus far, all we've done in this case is had a hearing on the issue of probable cause. In the state of Ohio, the burden for that is very, very low. And at that hearing, the defense, we do not have the option of presenting evidence. We don't have the luxury of bringing witnesses in on our behalf. So all of evidence that the world has heard to this point was at the production of the state of witnesses that they selected and they selected the best witnesses they could find to establish at that time a charge of kidnap and/or rape.

FEYERICK: Are you suggesting that your client, sir, is being scapegoated for a crime that other people may have been involved in?

MADISON: Well, you know, I can't make that decision. I'm not a prosecuting authority. That decision is made by other entities. My business is my client, Ma'lik Richmond.

FEYERICK: How is he doing? How is your client doing?

MADISON: Well, everyone here -- all of these people involved here are juveniles. And we have a juvenile system that is designed to make allowances for people who are not mature enough to make decisions that potentially could affect the rest of their lives. At one point, we wanted to prosecute these young boys as adults. There was a hearing and there was an independent evaluation from a psychologist. And it was determined that they are just inappropriate candidates for adult prosecution.

FEYERICK: OK. And let's not forget, clearly, innocent until proven guilty. Will this case remain in juvenile court and if so, will the evidence and this case be sealed?

MADISON: Well, you mentioned a few things there. The matter is a juvenile matter. There was a determination about that. And it will remain there. And the presumption of innocence, we would like to enjoy that. However, that has been destroyed, OK? It's essentially at this point a legal lynching. You have not just the allegation that we must defend against at this point based upon protests and other activities that have gone on and other special interest groups who have joined into the conversation. You know, we now have a campaign waged against us by women groups who are anti-violence against women.

And let us be clear. We are not promoting crime. We are not promoting rape. All we're asking for is a fair opportunity to explore these issues which the media through the social media has put out into the world and propagandized this case. And to this point, we have been silent about those. If I could just finish this point and I will let you ask another question, to this point, the defense, we've been silent honoring the sacred nature of the legal process, OK? Only until the scales became so unbalanced did you hear about the text message and the communication sent to the co-defendant here.

FEYERICK: I think the question and I think the thing that people find most disturbing, however, is how many people seem to have been involved, how many people seem to have witnessed what was going on that night and how few people stepped in to help a young woman who may or may not have been passed out while all of this was going on.

Mr. Madison, Walter Madison, the lawyer for one of the accused boys, we thank you very much for your time and for your insights as well.

MADISON: I think I understood your question. And you may need to repeat if my answer doesn't speak to it. The video is grossly inappropriate for the media to have -- the social media to use in the fashion that it has.

FEYERICK: We understand that, sir. But as we wrapped up, the one thing we want to make the point is it exists and that's part of the problem and that people are having about what happened that evening.

Thank you so much, Walter Madison. We appreciate it.

Well next, we're going to speak with a woman who's credited with bringing this case to national attention. We can't say where she is. We'll tell you why next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: Social media playing a major role in a teen rape case in Ohio because so much was posted about it. Two 16-year-old high school football players have been charged with sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl last summer. And much of the event being documented and made public via facebook, Instagram and twitter by some of the high school students who apparently were there.

I want to bring in Alexandria Goddard, the crime blogger.

Alexandria, you shed light on this story. Put it into perspective for us. You're from Steubenville.

ALEXANDRIA GODDARD, BLOGGER WHO EXPOSED SOCIAL MEDIA VIDEO: Yes, I used to live there several years ago.

FEYERICK: And so you decided -- you basically decided to come out and write about this because you felt that with everything that was known that it wasn't being investigated properly. Walk us through that.

GODDARD: Not necessarily that it wasn't being investigated properly because I don't have knowledge of that. I'm not law enforcement. But there were things online that the local media was not presenting or hadn't found.

FEYERICK: Now, you suggest there were other football players who were there, that there were others who were there and did nothing to stop this. Should there be more charges brought against more of the high school players based on some of the information that you were able to see that's now been deleted, posts, for example?

GODDARD: You know, again, I'm not an attorney or a prosecutor. But, you know, if there were laws broken, then, yes, people should be held accountable.

FEYERICK: Now, you were sued by a student, apparently, allegedly who basically documented what happened. Tell us about that and tell us how it ended.

GODDARD: I was sued. Twenty five of my John doe - commenters (ph) were sued. And in my opinion, the lawsuit was brought simply to stifle free speech. And the lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice on December 27th.

FEYERICK: OK. And what's also interesting is apparently the student later apologized to the victim and her family for his online comment.

GODDARD: Yes.

FEYERICK: Now, basically, Alexandria, we just want to tell our viewers tonight that, in fact, we haven't told people where you are. Your lawyer, Marc Randazza represents you. He is in Las Vegas. You've received some very specific threats.

And Marc, tell us about why your client has drawn so much fire from people in Steubenville.

MARC RANDAZZA, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING ALEXANDRIA GODDARD: Because she was doing exactly what she should have done as a journalist. She was exposing wrongdoing. And doing it at a time when the mainstream media was ignoring it. So she was the first amendment in action. This is what it's there for. It is to bring sunlight upon something that needs to be exposed.

So, people didn't want that to happen. Steubenville itself is very upset about this case. Of course, the participants in it are very upset about it. And by participants, I don't just mean the rapists. If you watch that video, you will see that there were people standing around. There were people who witnessed it. People who documented it did nothing.

And there might be a line over which one side of this line is something that is illegal and you can be prosecuted for. But then there's still this gray area of just horrible sociopathic behavior. And she shined a light on that because it seems from her reporting that there's a culture of that in Steubenville, that that is tolerated there. So I'm extremely proud of what she's done. But she's definitely made a lot of people angry.

FEYERICK: And Alexandria, the officials of Steubenville say, this is not what we are, this is not what our town is about. Do you think the football team there is protected on some levels that they're given a free pass to behave as they want?

GODDARD: From living there, their football is very important to them and they are held on a pedestal. So in my opinion, yes.

FEYERICK: And Alexandria, one more question. That is you posted screen shots of photos that have now been deleted, of videos from that night. What was most horrifying to you that you saw and said, this has got to come to light?

GODDARD: Just the total disregard for this young lady. The lack of empathy, the lack of compassion for another human being. And when I saw all the horrible things written, that's when I made the decision that it was time to shine a light on it. FEYERICK: They were essentially blaming the victim, is what you're saying?

GODDARD: Yes.

FEYERICK: OK, all right. Alexandria Goddard, thank you so much.

I want to bring in Paul Callan. Don't go anywhere yet - just yet, Alexandria. But I want to bring Paul Callan. He's our legal contributor.

Paul, what's so interesting is that the hacker group, anonymous, has played a bug role here. They are the ones who posted the video initially online for people to see. They have said they can hack into accounts and that maybe more will come out. Does this help or does this hurt the case?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think it's, of course, brought the case to public attention in a very, very graphic way. You know, what a lot of people don't realize is this is a juvenile case. And juvenile cases are not publicized like cases that take place in adult court. So we're only getting bits and pieces of information about it.

The anonymous posting drew a lot of public attention. Of course, they, you know, they did state that they did illegal things like hacking into people's computers and stealing their passwords and then threatening to publish pictures and other documents that they obtained by illegal hacking. I don't think we can encourage that kind of behavior. But on the other hand, it has cast a light on what was going on in Steubenville.

FEYERICK: And Paul, what's interesting also is that you heard the lawyer earlier basically say, well, this is all about social media. But what's fascinating to me is that there was an active conversation going on, apparently, between some of the students who had been at these parties. And that's why it came to light. I mean, they themselves, whether they realized it or not, were documenting what was going on. Is that admissible evidence in court?

CALLAN: Well, certainly, yes. They'll all witnesses to what went on the case. They will be key witnesses in the case. And you know, the attorney Madison, I thought it was interesting when you were asking him questions about the picture. And he says, it's taken out of context. Well, I don't know how it could be taken out of context unless his -- unless the young woman is a very heavy sleeper and she's being moved from place to place because she certainly looks intoxicated. If one is intoxicated and then is subject to sexual conduct, under Ohio law, that's rape.

You know, you were asking the question and we focused on the other attorney by the way, saying that a text message had been sent from the victim saying that she hadn't been raped. And I think, you know, what you're going to hear prosecutors say is, a lot of people don't realize that the definition of rape is not sexual intercourse by forcible compulsion, which is how we normally think of it. It can be various kinds of sexual contact. And the girl may not have thought that she was raped. She may be applying on old-fashion definition to it in her text as opposed to a lawyer's definition. So, we have to see how the facts turn out in the case before we can say that that text will help the defense or not.

FEYERICK: Yes. What the meaning is or what the meaning is not, for that matter.

CALLAN: Exactly.

FEYERICK: Alexandria, you have shed a lot of light on this. Do you have any regrets, either personal or professional?

GODDARD: No, not at all. I'm overwhelmed at the response. And I'm glad other people are asking questions. That was my intention.

FEYERICK: All right. Alexandria Goddard, Marc Randazza and our own Paul Callan, thanks so much. We really appreciate your helping us shed light on this conversation. Thank you.

How does something like this happen? What goes through the minds of young men who do or who are accused of doing several things? A forensic psychologist and our own Dr. Drew Pinsky. Stay ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: A social media avalanche descended on a 16-year-old girl at the center of an alleged rape case. For months, the teen's chilling story plus photos have been discussed, dissected on social media worldwide, photos showing her in an incredible vulnerable state tweeted around the globe. Her family's attorney says the teen is getting counseling and doing as well as one can expect.

Let's bring in Dr. Cheryl Arutt who has worked with sexual assault victims.

And Doctor Arutt, if you could talk to this girl, how would you tell her - how would you help her cope with what she's dealing with?

CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well Deborah, I think the most important thing I would want to say to her loud and clear is that rape is never, ever the victim's fault. What happened to her was not her fault. And that's a really important thing, especially when you are growing up in an environment that has such tolerance, such a high tolerance of rape myths and for blaming the victim.

We have to remember how very important football is in this community. And football is about taking without permission, overwhelming resistance, and taking without consent. And I think it's very easy in that kind of environment on the field to have that spill over and create a high level of tolerance in the community.

So what I would say to her is first of all, she can heal from this. It is not her fault. And she needs to be around people who can really work with her to help her overcome what she's experienced and rebuild her life.

FEYERICK: You know, what is so fascinating to me is the fact that people took pictures, that they discussed it, that they were tweeting about it, that they were having conversations, you know, via Instagram and facebook. There was a sense that this was all a big joke that they were allowed to do this. They were OK to do this. Is that part of the culture or is it very possible they were so drunk, they didn't know what they were doing?

ARUTT: It would be tempting to think of it as being too intoxicated to realize what they were doing. But I think they realized very clearly what they were doing. That this is consistent with a way of thinking. We think about rape very differently than we think about other kinds of crimes. If you look at mugging, for example, we don't ask whether it was the victim's fault because he might have been wearing a watch that some other guy felt tempted by or what was he doing walking at that hour or had he ever given money away voluntarily in the past? And yet when we're looking at rape, we ask, was she ever sexually active? How do we know that she didn't consent to this? We have all these special rules that really serve to demean and further victimize the victim and not looking at this as a human rights issue, which I think it really is.

FEYERICK: OK. And we have an expert also, another expert with us tonight, Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN "Doctor Drew's on Call." And I'm going to ask you about the character of these boys and what it tells us about what happened. But we're going to do that after the break. So, both of you stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: We've been talking about this terrible story out of Ohio and the 16-year-old girl at the center of an alleged rape case. Also the young men accused of this crime. We want to reiterate that they are innocent until proven guilty.

Let me bring in Dr. Cheryl Arutt who has worked with sexual assault victims and Dr. Drew Pinsky.

And Dr. Drew, let me ask you this. What's disturbing is the fact --

DOCTOR DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST, DR. DREW ON CALL: Everything.

FEYERICK: -- that there was enough wherewithal for these young men to tape what was going on, to record, to document, to take photos. What was their mentality? What was going on in their minds or was nothing going on?

PINSKY: Well, Deborah, here's the deal. I think we all -- all of your viewers need to step back and take this away from a small town in Ohio and think about what is happening to our youth more globally. This is about kids, morality, the capacity for empathy.

That girl, the most disturbing part of this was that 12-minute videotape that was aired where the kids are laughing about the young lady being dead. There it is alongside of me right now. She was no more a person dead than she was alive. This is the objectification of women. And I don't think we should be surprise given what reigns down on young people from the Internet, pornography. The way they act out on social media. They act out at one another as though they are simply objects.

And we must counter-parent this actively. If we don't, it could be our kids. That's the reality. And the big other warning here is, by the way, Deborah is alcohol. Every unwanted outcome, you can measure with adolescence, you find alcohol and drugs. Whether it is sexual conduct that's unwanted, whether (INAUDIBLE) or pregnancy, you find alcohol.

And if parents, if adults were involved in the use of alcohol with these kids, they should be held accountable. There's rumor that there were. But that's strictly rumor at this point.

FEYERICK: Yes, absolutely. There was a rumor that there was underage drinking and that this girl had so much to drink that she passed out at one point --

PINSKY: Well, Deborah, I'm going to stop you. The fact that she passed out does not make her a candidate for rape. In California, if you have a very small amount of alcohol, you are not considered able to render consent. I find it stunning that in Ohio, maybe they need to revisit their laws, that being conscious, according to the attorney you were speaking to Mr. Callan, conscious, making decisions and speaking, make somebody sufficiently sober to be able to render consent. And that is a problem. That's something that Ohio needs to look at and every state should look at that.

FEYERICK: Yes. And Dr. Drew, what about accountability? Let's talk about that. Because again, this goes to the point you were raising which is, you know, there's no empathy. There's no sort of ability to gauge right from wrong. Accountability, they're posting pictures, they're talking about this. They are implicating themselves. They are essentially making themselves character witnesses to what went on.

PINSKY: Again, these are kids. And as kids -- when we evaluate kids, we evaluate kids and the parents. That's the unit, these kids and the parent together. And if the kids are behaving in ways that are suggestive that they don't understand right from wrong, they don't understand they're implicating themselves, they don't understand the impact they're having -- again, the social media gives them some distance from what they're doing and makes it seem like, well, this is all in fun, this is a joke, this is where we do things that are fun when in fact people's lives are permanently, potentially, affected by behavior on the Internet. Perhaps, let's -- we may find out because we don't know yet, perhaps more so than in the flesh.

FEYERICK: Absolutely. And, look, this may be a case where with all the pictures people are not going to be able to say what was going on there because maybe they were so drunk.

But let me ask you this, Carol -- Cheryl, I'm sorry. Cheryl, what about the character of the girl? Because you know that defense attorneys are going to go after her and go after her in a big way if she had had so much to drink, if there was alcohol there that she passed out. Talk to me about that because it's really so upsetting to see this young girl in a t-shirt and shorts sort of being dragged by these two young men. So, what about a potential character assassination of her?

ARUTT: That her character is even an issue is absolutely appalling. I want to say, I think it's really important that people like Dr. Drew are here tonight as men talking about how boys have to look at their behavior as well as girls. The idea that we're looking at her character at all, I know in California there are rape shield laws where you're not allowed to make a rape victim's character an issue.

But think about this. Regardless of someone's character and from what I understand, she was an athlete and a scholar and an "a" student in a religious school. But even if a victim didn't have impeccable character, should that mean that a man or boy can rape with impunity? I mean, when we think about -- why isn't the default --

PINSKY: Cheryl, I'll go one step further. Let's say this is the beginning of alcoholism in this poor young girl. Shouldn't she then even be more protected because she has a condition that put her at risk of behavioral choices that might be a detriment to her? We should be even protecting her further as opposed to contemplating a character assassination. That's the most you could say. There's a substance thing here that maybe put her at risk. And maybe it was teen acting out. Maybe there's a more serious problem and we should feel empathy for this young girl and not disdain.

FEYERICK: Yes. Maybe she made a choice that she came to regret. Maybe she picked up a drink, had it and all of the sudden, it wasn't able to control what she did. Again, we don't know what the outcome is going to be, what prosecutors are going to be able to prove. But looking at those pictures, there's something extremely disturbing about the potential violation that took place there that night.

All right, Dr. Drew Pinsky and Cheryl Arutt, thank you so much for the engaging conversation. We appreciate it.

And program reminder, be sure to Washington "Dr. Drew on call" on our sister network, HLN at 9:00 p.m. eastern.

And Next on CNN --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: When was the last time you heard a politician talk like this --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty six days and counting. Shame on you. Shame on congress.

FEYERICK: New jersey's Chris Christie winning over voters from both parties. Is it hard talk or hot air? (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: You know, disaster relief was something that you didn't play games with. But now in this current atmosphere, everything is the subject of ones upsmanship, everything is a piece of bait for the political game. And it is just -- it is why the American people hate congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Well, when it comes to New Jersey governor Chris Christie, what you see is what you get. And this week, his fellow Republicans got an earful, as you just heard. Let's bring in Ana Navarro, Republican strategist and CNN contributor.

And Ana, that is your party. Is this the kind of elected official that Republicans need, someone who calls it like he sees it?

ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Absolutely. We need a big tent that's got room for people like Chris Christie, for northeastern Republicans that call it like they see it, that are blunt, that are honest. And listen. Chris Christie wasn't saying anything that most Americans don't believe is true. Yes, look at the statistics and the approval ratings for Washington, for congress. They're in the low teens. And that's the high ones, Deb.

Most Americans believe Washington is broken. Most Americans believe Congress and our government is working in a dysfunctional fashion. He doesn't say anything that most Americans don't share in. And you know, look. The best thing Chris Christie can do for our party is be a good governor of New Jersey. Let's remember that New Jersey is a state that's got two Democrat senators, that's had a Democrat governor. It is a blue state that goes democrat in presidential races.

Chris Christie is doing a great job there. His top priority is to represent the people of New Jersey. That's what he's got to do best.

FEYERICK: Look, party critics from the GOP are basically going to say he's burning bridges and he's doing it just so he can get reelected and bashing Congress is the easiest way to do it. Do you agree?

NAVARRO: No. I don't think he's taking on Congress to get reelected. I think he's doing what he has to do. Remember, I'm from Florida so I come from a state that gets hit by hurricanes. And when you are an affected state, what you want is you want quick action and you want other people to feel the sense of urgency no as an affected victim feel.

I don't think that this is about his reelection. I think he's trying to do his job the best way he can. And we got to cut Chris Christie from slack. He's doing his job. We also have to cut John Boehner some slack, I think. He had been in a marathon for weeks trying to get this fiscal cliff deal done. He finally made it. He did it at the last minute. He was fried that night. He didn't have the political capital. He didn't have the energy, the emotional wherewithal to go through it all over again over Sandy. Did he mishandle it? Absolutely. And I'm sure if you asked John Boehner if he mishandled it, he would say he could have handled it better. That being said, it's time to pass the page, let you know, bygones be bygones. It's time to get moving. John Boehner made amends. He got the bill passed, you know, the next day on Friday, we're good.

FEYERICK: All right. Ana Navarro, thank you so much. And we know you're under the weather. So we really appreciate your being here for all of us and our viewers. Thanks so much.

Death in Hollywood has us asking, is it time to make tougher laws for the paparazzi? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: This past week, a photographer was killed chasing a car that he thought Justin Bieber was driving. It happened on an L.A. freeway. Police say the man pulled over and walked across the street to snap some photos. But as he walked back to his car, He was hit and killed by oncoming traffic.

Dennis Zine is Los Angeles city councilman.

And sir, you led a push a few years back to regulate what paparazzi can and cannot do. After this tragedy, Justin Bieber said we need better laws to protect celebrities and also paparazzi. Do you think this might spark that to happen?

DENNIS ZINE, LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCILMAN: Well, I would hope so. We look back at 1997, princess Diana, that tragic death. We started in Los Angeles back in 2008 trying to come up with some new regulations. Karen Bass at the time was the speaker of the California state assembly, authored legislation on a civil matter.

The next year, 2010, we went up to something very significant to take aggressive action. And it's about enforcement. It's about enforcement by the local law enforcement but clearly there's the responsibility by the celebrities, by the photographers. We need to safeguard people.

And this tragedy, this 29-year-old who was trying to become an up-and-coming photographer, a paparazzi in the city of Los Angeles, tragically killed by a lady who simply driving down the roadway at night, didn't see him, struck him, killed him. She had two youngsters in the car. There's a lot of people are impacted by this.

The bottom line is we need cooperation from everyone. We need cooperation from the celebrities as well as those taking photography and the paparazzi. And what happened is they've exploded in numbers. There used to be just a couple out taking photography. Now the numbers are staggering. And when they have the chases down the freeway, in July, it was with Justin Bieber traveling down the freeway at an excessive rate of speed followed by the paparazzi. It got out of control.

I was on the freeway that time called 911. We did a prosecution. The court ruled that the laws are too broad. We have to scale them down. The bottom line is it's everyone's responsibility. And we're working feverishly with our city attorney and with our state legislators to try and shore this up so we don't have any more of these tragedies.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: Let's talk about - Look. One of the greatest players involved in this are magazines and newspapers that pay these men and women a lot of money for that one photo. Everybody's trying to get that one photo that will basically really almost make them rich, at least for a little while. So, what is the responsibility of the magazines and the papers themselves?

ZINE: There are sanctions and there are sanction here in the state of California. The problem is, we have got a swarm of paparazzi chasing these individuals, who's going to get that picture? In this particular case, the highway patrol stopped the Ferrari on the freeway, the 405 freeway. This was adjacent to the freeway of boulevard, where this young 29-year-old photographer got out of his car, went over snapping some pictures. The officer told him to get out there. told him to remove himself. And as he goes back, (INAUDIBLE). It's a dark road way.

It's really a tragedy, but hopefully, we can learn from this experience and we can have the cooperation -- doesn't matter how many laws are on the books. It's the cooperation of everyone, including the celebrities.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: And the public. We have to basically curb our insatiable demand for that hot next picture.

All right. Sir, thank you very much, Dennis Zine. We really appreciate your joining us tonight.

ZINE: My pleasure. Thank you.

FEYERICK: And next on CNN --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Don Lemon with William Shatner. So, set dozers were stunned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going out of my head can't get that song out of my head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going out of your mind. FEYERICK: Because you've never seen captain Kirk like this before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: William Shatner is on tour with a new show. He's been on a lot of shows, of course. Don Lemon talked to him earlier and asked if over the years the craft of acting has changed for Shatner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SHATNER, ACTOR: I have discovered as an actor, as I'm into my last phases of life that acting is even more --

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Come on.

SHATNER: Well, it is. I just have to face the fact. But acting becomes more complex.

LEMON: And you've worked with what the trek (ph), you worked with Judy Garland, I mean, on and on and on. And you're a star in your own right. But back then, you were younger. Were you star- struck when you worked with those people?

SHATNER: So much so. I loved them. They were the mystery and the mystique of the silver screen. As a kid, I'd go and watch these people. And then I met them. Spencer Tracy, you know, a legendary group of people who are now for the most part long forgotten. And I admired them. They were the ritual I went through. They were the focus of mythology that I went through.

LEMON: And I wonder when I see the - you know, when people do spoofs of you or they sort of mimic you and do the Staccato, William Shatner, that doesn't bother you, does it?

SHATNER: No, because I don't recognized what they are doing. You know, people -- some of those actors who most people in America don't recognize, Jimmy Stewart and Edward G. Robinson (ph), did they recognize when people were doing imitations. With Edward G. Robinson, I worked with him and I said, did you know you do this a lot? And he said, I do? Do they recognized spoof of them, same with me. I know what they're doing but I don't see myself doing that, do I?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I think you probably had a lot of gay admirers because you walked around that ship with your shirt off a lot or at least --

SHATNER: Yes. Well, if that was the reason I had gay admirers, they perhaps don't admire me quite as much now.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: All right. So listen. Let's move on and talk about lieutenant, Nischelle Nichols. This is back --

SHATNER: Is that sort of a dream thing with you. Is that a fantasy for you?

LEMON: What?

SHATNER: You want to talk about lieutenant --

LEMON: I had a huge -- I thought you were talking about the you with your shirt off, no. But lieutenant, I did -- I had a crush on her when I was a kid. I mean, who didn't? She was a gorgeous woman.

SHATNER: I heard it in your voice.

LEMON: You share what many consider the interracial kiss on American television. Did you realize how groundbreaking that moment was?

SHATNER: Not in terms of groundbreaking. I just realized how lovely her lips were.

LEMON: This was the 1960s. Were you worried at all about your career and that it would have a detrimental effect on your career for sharing a kiss with an African-American woman?

SHATNER: It never occurred to me, no.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: And some last words from William Shatner next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: William Shatner is touring with his one-man show but he took a break to talk to our Don Lemon. And he wanted to end about thoughts he has about all of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHATNER: We're on that journey together, the journey through to death. And we don't know what's on the other side of that line of death. So we're locked in this embrace of the journey and the apprehension of what happens after we die. And it seems to suggest -- and I make this point in that show -- that we should help each other to make that journey easier and more meaningful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: And we've got much more of William Shatner and Don Lemon tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. eastern. Shatner talks about more of his life's philosophy, what it was like being broke, his fear, even today of losing it all again. That's tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m.

From the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, we are so pleased that you joined us tonight.

I'm Deborah Feyerick. We want to wish all of you a very good night.