Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Debt Ceiling Showdown; NBC Execs Address Violent TV Content; Analysts: Cyber Warfare to Go Mainstream; Redskins Sticking with RG3 Questioned

Aired January 07, 2013 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thanks for being with me. I'm Carol Costello. It's 30 minutes past the hour.

Stories we're watching in THE NEWSROOM:

Opening bell on Wall Street, or should I say Vail, Colorado, all to commemorate the 50th anniversary of that resort. The bell being rung remotely from the base of the mountain by the chairman and CEO. Stocks likely to be flat after strong gains last week driven by a deal to avert that fiscal cliff.

Speaking of that, weeks after Congress narrowly avoided that catastrophic fiscal cliff, now we're facing another debate, the debt ceiling. Many members of Congress say the last-minute brinkmanship that happened with the fiscal cliff is not going to be repeated when it comes to raising the debt ceiling. Others may not be on board with that.

Republican Representative Matt Salmon from Arizona had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT SALMON (R), ARIZONA: I was here in the government shutdown of '95. It was a divided government. We have a Democratic president of the United States. We had a Republican Congress.

I believe that that government shutdown actually gave us the impetus, as we went forward, to push toward some real serious compromise. I think it drove Bill Clinton in a different direction, a very bipartisan direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Joining me now, L.Z. Granderson and Will Cain, both CNN contributors.

Good morning, guys.

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning. Happy New Year. COSTELLO: Happy New Year. I'm so glad to be back. I've been on vacation, and I feel like I'm talking about the same stuff, which I am.

I wanted just to lay out the idea of a government shutdown for people who can't remember as far back as 1995, because it had the following effects. It cost taxpayers about $800 million. New Social Security claims were not processed. Medicare recipients were delayed, their applications, that is. The CDC, the Centers for Disease Control hotline shutdown. If that happened today, there is a flu outbreak going on. It could affect that. National parks shut down.

Is a government shutdown really a good negotiating tool, L.Z.?

GRANDERSON: Of course not. You just -- this is some of the reasons why. You know, there are other things as well. You know, back then, there were like 600 toxic waste areas or spills that weren't cleaned up during those 28 days, which the government was shut down.

So, we're not just talking about things that we may not notice. We're talking about things that could be affecting public health. Absolutely not, it's not a good idea.

And I'm actually really disappointed that coming out of this fiscal cliff conversation, that the tactic is, look, we can put another cliff out there. That should not be in the conversation. That should not be involved in the vocabulary at all.

COSTELLO: So, Will, why is it in the conversation?

CAIN: Yes, let's answer that. First of all, you know, you're talking about a government shutdown as a product, I think, of the debt ceiling debate.

I don't like the concept of using the debt ceiling as a negotiating tool because the debt ceiling is a process by which you authorize payment for spending you've already taken on, you've already approved, right? But a month after our debt ceiling debate, we have an actual government shutdown proposal, that is, a proposal to keep funding the government over the next six months. Very short-term measure.

Why does that exist? L.Z. said, why do we keep putting those out there?

It's because two reasons. The government has not passed a budget for four years. Now, budgets are plans. They're just policy plans. They don't actually authorize spending. But still, it shows some responsibility, and the government's neglected to do that for almost four years.

In the short term, the Senate has also not taken up the responsibility of passing appropriations bills, those that actually authorize spending. So we have these short-term government funding mechanisms.

You did the story, I'm sure, six months ago, Carol, a year ago - COSTELLO: Yes.

CAIN: -- over government shutdowns. And we're going to do this as long as they don't figure out how to set spending plans in place.

COSTELLO: Well, so are you saying that maybe it's a good idea to say, oh, we'll just shut the government down, to take extreme negotiating tactics like that?

CAIN: No, I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm saying it's an obvious consequence, you know? I mean, do you want the government to have an actual spending plan, to budget and spend in a responsible manner, or do you want the government to just willy-nilly spend in whatever fashion it wants, in the meantime, racking up $16 trillion in debt.

If they don't do the first, if they don't put responsible spending plans together, which I'm going to blind (ph) myself on that side, OK? L.Z. can weigh in on that. That's what they ought to do. If they don't, these other cliffs, they're natural by products. They will happen. Good or bad doesn't matter. They will happen.

COSTELLO: But I will say that extreme negotiating tactic certainly have not worked in the past, and I'm talking about the recent past, L.Z.

GRANDERSON: I mean, when you read Bill Clinton's autobiography, he spends time talking about what happened in '95 and in '96, and he talks about the fact that it really wasn't as effective as the Republicans, some Republicans today would like to paint it as. Part of the reason why is because how it hurt the American people.

The conversation you need to be having right now isn't how much is being spent or even necessarily where, but how the money is being spent. You know, I looked at some of the details as to why we had the '95/'96 government strike. It's the same things. It's about education. It's about Medicare. It's about the environment.

You talked about going on vacation and coming back and hearing the same thing. We're talking about the same thing from '95 as we are today. We haven't really decided yet what type of country we want to be and how we want to spend the money in order to get there.

We spend a great deal of money on education, right? We probably spend more money per student than any other industrialized nations. And yet when you look at the collective global testing, we're somewhere in the middle of the pack.

So the conversation we need to be having isn't just about how much money or how are we spending that money, and is this moving us towards the type of country we want to be?

COSTELLO: That's much too complicated. I'm just kidding.

(LAUGHTER)

GRANDERSON: Well, it might be complicated but I think it's the best way to handle it.

COSTELLO: All right.

CAIN: And this is the point. This is the debate. There has to be a debate. We're going to debate how we spend our money. We're now talking about when we have the debates.

We should be having it in a responsible manner that governments traditionally operate. If we don't, we're going to be dealing with these cliffs.

COSTELLO: That's right. And we shouldn't wait until the last minute to get something done.

GRANDERSON: No.

COSTELLO: But I guess that's the way our government works right.

GRANDERSON: It should be a part of ongoing conversation.

COSTELLO: Absolutely.

L.Z. Granderson, Will Cain, thanks so much.

CAIN: Thanks.

COSTELLO: NBC has a new killer drama, and they're already defending it. We'll tell you how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: NBC is promoting and also defending its new project, a deadly drama "Hannibal." "The Hollywood Reporter's" headline says, quote, "NBC executives dispute link between violent TV content and rash of shootings."

Let's get to A.J. Hammer in New York.

So NBC's entertainment president was quoted as saying, "'Hannibal' is not a shoot 'em up show. No, it's just a show where they eat people."

I mean, come on, it's a violent show.

A.J. HAMMER, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT: It is a violent show. They're not disputing the fact it's a violent show, but I don't think they can ignore the controversy about violence and its possible link to what happens in real life.

Robert Greenblatt is the head of NBC Entertainment, and he's skeptical of this link between violence on television and violence in real life. He was speaking at the Television Critics Association Convention, and he pointed out that despite a lot of people's efforts to make a direction between mass shootings and pop culture, there are other factors you have to keep in mind like mental illness and access to guns. Of course, he was there to promote NBC's new show "Hannibal," which is perhaps about the most famous serial killer ever portrayed in a movie, Hannibal Lecter.

This series is about a young Hannibal Lecter, before "The Silence of the Lambs" and I'm assuming before he developed a taste for fava beans and Chianti.

Now, the FOX network may also be getting grief for their new serious. It's kicking off this month, all about a serial killer. It's called "The Following". It actually stars Kevin Bacon. He's coming to TV.

But this network hopes it's a huge hit. People do love this stuff.

COSTELLO: Well, they do. And the perfect example was this weekend because "Texas Chainsaw 3D," which I can't imagine watching really, did really well this weekend.

HAMMER: It did really well. And the reason the TV shows we're talking about and movies like this get made with a lot of violence is because there's a huge appetite for them. Some of the top films at the box office right now are some of the most violent ones out there. The biggest earner over the weekend, though, was "Texas Chainsaw 3D." More than $20 million at the box office in its opening days, and it, of course, is a sequel to one of the bloodiest horror movies ever made.

And right behind it at the box office over the weekend, "Django Unchained," loaded with violence as well.

So, obviously, Carol, people are quick to pay their money to go see it.

COSTELLO: Well, I mean, this just demonstrates the huge problem we have in our country. I mean, we have to examine our own culture maybe to get at the answers. And --

HAMMER: It is -- it is always interesting toe m this is our escape, you know?

COSTELLO: Yes.

HAMMER: When something is historical, that's one thing. But when our escape is going to see people getting shot or eaten by dogs, you have to wonder about it.

COSTELLO: Or cut up by a chainsaw. Well -- A.J. Hammer, thanks.

A.J. will be back next hour to tell us why Mariah Carey's ex is getting responsibility for her career. We're talking about something lighter next hour.

Banks, nuclear power plant, the systems that purify your water, just some of the potential targets of cyber warfare. And now, analysts say some of the attacks on those facilities could lead to deaths.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Forty-five minutes past the hour. Time to check our "Top Stories".

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is getting back to work this morning at the State Department. On the agenda today, a meeting with her assistant secretaries. There she is leaving her home. The past few weeks have been tough for Mrs. Clinton. She's battled the flu, with concussion and was hospitalized for a blood clot near her brain.

In New York City, school buses are rolling this morning, but a strike by its drivers could still strand some 150,000 school kids later this week. Drivers are protesting plans to put contracts up for bids a move that could cost the jobs of veteran drivers.

Teen heartthrob Justin Bieber is about to peddle plastic to your kids. According to numerous reports the pop star is the latest celebrity to endorse prepaid debit cards. The Bieber campaign will stress responsible spending -- that's what it says -- while courting his tens of millions of followers on social media.

A new year is bringing a new development in the realm of cyber warfare. Analysts say 2013 could be the year when cyber attacks sponsored by other countries go mainstream and potentially lead to deaths. Wow.

Alison Kosik is here to spread the fear. Really?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well I'm going to try to pull you off the ledge a little bit.

COSTELLO: Thanks. Geez.

KOSIK: Just a little, so yes I mean but the warning signs, the warning signals sort of are going out. Online security analysts like McAfee, Verizon, which actually has pretty extensive cyber security program and others. What they're predicting Carol is that cyber warfare will escalate this year, many of it between actual countries.

In fact one expert is telling CNN Money that at least 12 of the world's 15 biggest military powers are building these big cyber warfare programs and it's not just talk because these programs can cause major disruptions to the country's infrastructure systems like power plants and water purification systems. Also don't forget financial systems like banks and stock exchanges as well.

Now one security expert he is going as far to suggest an attack could even cause people to die. He says these types of attacks, that they can grow more sophisticated and the slippery slope could, quote, "lead to the loss of human life".

Now, yes, it is a bit of a stretch. But you know what these security experts, they are paid to think about the unthinkable, including potential destruction caused by hacking into computer systems at a nuclear power plant, air traffic control tower, you know how these disruptions, Carol, can eventually become a matter of life and death -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Are there any specific examples? KOSIK: Well you know what we've already seen some of this evidence of this happening earlier this year. The attack on the Iranian government systems, including its nuclear program, attacks by hacktivist group "Anonymous", those were happening on bank Web sites and other corporate sites. You know the truth of the matter is they haven't really done much damage other than to cause a few headaches, some annoyances.

And there's more good news too just to pull you back from the ledge a little more, these security experts say that "Anonymous" is losing its ability to wreak havoc. Companies have actually learned the "Anonymous" playbook at this point, and they know how to defend against it.

And so this is getting more interesting as it goes on. If you want to read more, go to David Goldman's full article at CNNMoney.com -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Ok I feel better now. Alison Kosik, thanks so much.

"Talk Back". "What, if any, new gun laws should be passed?" Facebook.com/CarolCNN. Your responses next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: "Talk Back" question today. "What, if any, new gun laws should be passed?"

This from Dan. "All the king's horses and all the king's men and all the king's laws cannot stop someone from breaking the law. Deal with the real issue, mental illness."

This from Alexandre. "It's too far gone to fix. It will take 20 years to rectify. Unfortunately, these kinds of things will keep on happening."

This from Jason. "Assault weapon ban, bullet registration, background checks and mental health checks on all gun sales."

From John, "Ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines. The general public does not need these things."

And this from Gary. "What would a gun ban do? Keep the guns out of the hands of criminals? No, it would keep the guns out of the hands of Americans protecting themselves from these criminals."

Keep the conversation going. Facebook.com/CarolCNN or send me a tweet at @CarolCNN.

RG3 reinjures his knee during the wild card playoff against Seattle. Did the Redskins make a huge mistake by keeping their franchise's quarterback in the game? His knee could be messed up for life. We just don't know. We're going to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Oh, the Washington Redskins looked unstoppable on the first two scoring drives in the playoff game against Seattle but Robert Griffin III hurt his knee. The Redskins stuck with him anyway and so put no more points on the board and yes they lost to the Seattle Sea Hawks.

Bleacher Reports Vince Cellini joins us now. And -- a lot of fans have had a really -- I mean they have a great question. Should RG3 have been left in that game?

VINCE CELLINI, BLEACHER REPORT: Well this is the second guess we still like Carol no question about it. And Maybe I'm in the minority but I believe that in the NFL if a player and the coach get together and decide, you know, what we're going to do here regarding injury and they decide to keep him in the game, then he should stay in the game. This is the NFL.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Yes, but the player is a 22-year-old rookie.

CELLINI: I get it.

COSTELLO: The coach has what -- 30, 40 years experience coaching.

CELLINI: I understand it.

COSTELLO: It's up to the coach to say, hey, I don't think that you can play this game. We're going to put Kurt Cousins in and maybe we'll win.

CELLINI: Well you know look, this isn't the high school regionals. This is the NFL playoffs. And at this stage of the game players know their bodies. And I will tell you that 90 percent of the players on that field for both teams are injured at this point. You play through injury.

I don't have a problem with him gutting it out. They made a decision on the sideline. He came in hurt already and they felt that he was a better option than their backup quarterback to try to win the game.

Now did it play out that way? It didn't and unfortunately it ended like this. But there are a lot of factors involved not the least of which is that turf coming loose under his foot OK. The field condition --

COSTELLO: Yes what with FedEx Field because you think Daniel Schneider would have enough money to fix it right?

CELLINI: Well yes you would. Now one more thing about Robert Griffin III we don't know the extent of the knee injury right now. He'll have an MRI on Monday but to your question about the field I think it's an absolute disgrace that a NFL playoff game is played on a field that looks like that, dirt that's painted green and various colors. How in 2013 can we have a game played on a field like that that caused injuries that may have caused injuries to other players, as well? It's ridiculous.

COSTELLO: Yes I don't understand that either because it's not like it's a poor team.

CELLINI: No.

COSTELLO: It's not like it's not well attended the stadium is fairly new, right? It's not an old stadium.

CELLINI: Well of course. You want to put the best product possible on the field and -- and make sure that the field is playable and that thing was just ridiculous.

I'm from Cleveland. I covered the Browns in their old stadiums and the field looked very much like that. With loose turf and things flying in the air and -- and you don't know what the contribution is regarding the health of players when you're playing on a field like that.

COSTELLO: Yes but when you got a superstar player like RG3 and a knee problem going in, don't you say, hmm? Hmm, maybe you want to make playing conditions safe as possible for our franchise player.

CELLINI: Yes. You would think so. I think there are a lot of second guessers out there. They knew going in he was hurt. I didn't hear a lot of complaints when he had that big brace on and they were up 14-0 in the game, you know.

Ok. Moving on --

COSTELLO: Ok. Should I ask about the other football stuff going on?

CELLINI: Ok. We had another game on Sunday.

COSTELLO: Oh yes.

CELLINI: This was like a scene out of "Gladiator". The return of Ray Lewis to the Baltimore Ravens. He had been out since October with a torn tricep.

COSTELLO: Look at him.

CELLINI: And you know what; did he inspire his teammates? Absolutely. The dance was back at MMT Bank Stadium. He made 13 tackles against the Indianapolis Colts so that means his retirement party and he is gone at the end of the year extends for one more game. So Ray Lewis back on the field.

Oh. A little rust on that attempted interception but he was back and he helped Baltimore win 24-9.

COSTELLO: I did feel a little sorry for Indianapolis, though because they had a great story all year long. Chuck Pagano is back and didn't fare so well.

CELLINI: No, absolutely terrific. Like Andrew Luck, the rookie quarterback is, you know, the future is bright for this team. It's a tremendous turnaround.

If you want to see some of the matchups for next week?

COSTELLO: Sure.

CELLINI: We take a look at that? Ok. Baltimore is going to face one of the hottest teams in the league in the Denver Broncos. That's the early game Saturday and the later game 49ers and Green Bay Packers. On Sunday Seahawks are here in Atlanta, 1:00 p.m. Eastern time in the second half with a double header. New England hosts the Houston Texans who clobbered them because in December 10th 42-14.

Carol BCS National Championship game. Miami. Notre Dame. Alabama.

COSTELLO: Yes.

CELLINI: Notre Dame is number one and they're a ten-point underdog in this game.

COSTELLO: Wow.

CELLINI: To Alabama at number two.

COSTELLO: Alabama's mighty Vince.

CELLINI: Alabama is trying to continue their dynasty, OK. I understand that. They're looking for a second straight BCS national title. No one's ever done that. They had three titles in four years.

So let me give you a couple of keys here. For Notre Dame, run the ball effectively. Stay out of third and longs. No turnovers. Be physical. Alabama, rely on your experience and a passing efficiency quarterback. The nation's best in AJ McCarrin.

Ok. One more note to give you.

COSTELLO: Ok. I'm ready.

CELLINI: We have a lot this Monday. NHL lockout is over for hockey fans, OK. A tentative agreement reached on Sunday. It has to have approval from the union and the players and that seems to be a formality. That should happen by midweek.

COSTELLO: And thousands of fans are saying --

CELLINI: Should have hockey by mid-January.

COSTELLO: Who cares? Right.

CELLINI: Yes, right. BleacherReport.com.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Vince.

Cellini: All right.

COSTELLO: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.