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Obama to Nominate Chuck Hagel; Interview with Retired General Mark Kimmett; Interview with Rabbi Aryeh Azriel

Aired January 07, 2013 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, "CNN NEWSROOM": Neither is likely to have an easy go at the Senate confirmation process because you know that's coming up.

Joining me now with the insights on this and the expertise, CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and our chief national correspondent, John King.

In the interest of the new year's resolution to be very positive, let's start with the pros, Gloria Borger. And let's go over the list with Chuck Hagel as our starting point.

He's a war hero and he has two Purple Hearts from Vietnam where he served alongside of his brother, each of them, by the way, saving each other's life which is a story unto itself. He also went on to represent his native Nebraska in the U.S. Senate and now he co-chairs the president's intelligence advisory board.

That sounds like a pretty good c.v., they say. What's not to like?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if you're in the White House, you say that's the reason his confirmation should be smooth sailing.

But, you know, he was a two-term senator and when you're a two-term senator you have a record and you have a history. And Chuck Hagel's history, at least according to some Republicans and some Democrats, is not what they would call pro-Israel enough.

And there are some questionable comments he made a while back about the so-called "Jewish lobby" as he called it, so he's going to have to answer some questions about that, about some votes on sanctions against Iran. So, I think that's going to be question number one out there.

There are some in the lesbian and gay community who question the comments he made about an ambassador who was gay and questioned his credentials as a result of that a while back.

Hagel has taken back those comments, but those are also clearly something that's going to be raised, but I would have to say that, in the end, the people that I talked to on both sides of the aisle say it's going to be a fight. The question I'm looking at is, will John McCain in the end vote "aye" for his old friend who was an Obama supporter and will Democrats bail because of his questions about support for Israel?

BANFIELD: Well, and also that he's a Republican.

John, that brings me to you. It is not the first time we've had cross-party secretaries. In fact, it happens all the time, especially in defense, too.

But why in particular do you think the president wants this particular man as his sec def? This particular Republican.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Comfort zone, Ashleigh. Second term, you're less worried about the politics. You want someone with whom you're personally comfortable and somebody who shares your political and your policy agenda.

You mentioned it's not terribly unusual. Bill Clinton had Bill Cohen, a Republican, at the Defense Department. Barack Obama kept Bob Gates, President Bush's defense secretary for continuity there because of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, he's in the second term. He's less worried about the politics. As Gloria notes, he's prepared to have a fight, a fight not only with Republicans but with some Democrats, a bit of a controversy.

So, we thought it might come on the Susan Rice nomination were she to be nominated for secretary of state. She pulled her name back. The president here is signaling. I want my team in Chuck Hagel and John Brennan. I want my guys and I'm willing to take a few bruises along the way and he thinks he's going to get them in the end.

BORGER: You know, Ashleigh ...

BANFIELD: Go ahead, Gloria.

BORGER: ... if you downsize the Pentagon, politically, and that's what the president is going to do, it's not a bad idea, some Democrats think, to have a Republican at the helm you do that because the Democrats have a history of being called soft on defense, et cetera, et cetera.

So, when you are downsizing, have a Republican lead the way.

BANFIELD: Well, it does make for easier politics in some respects. Tougher in others.

Let me switch gears to Mr. Brennan. This is another interesting choice and a lot of people have a lot of good things to say about John Brennan.

However, Gloria, the nomination process is still going to be problematic. And, again, I could list the c.v., just like I did for Chuck Hagel, and it sounds terrific. What's the problem? BORGER: Well, I actually think that Brennan is probably going to have a much easier time than Chuck Hagel. I think there are questions about how he felt about enhanced interrogation techniques, as we call them, otherwise known as torture, during the Bush administration.

BANFIELD: Yeah, he didn't particularly dislike them, right?

BORGER: Well, no. He has come out and said he opposed them, but there's also a question of have we been using drones too much. There are a lot of Democrats who believe that we've -- we are using drones too much so these questions are going to be raised ...

BANFIELD: Clarify that for me because I was under the question that he supported the Bush policy of the enhanced and harsh interrogations.

BORGER: Well, he has and I just was talking to somebody about that. He wrote a letter to Obama and said it has been immaterial to the critics that I have been a strong opponent of many of the policies of the Bush administration, such as preemptive war in Iraq and coercive interrogation tactics. So, he has said that.

So there are going to be lots of issues about Brennan. He was for the raid to go in and get Osama bin Laden. People believe that he's acquitted himself admirably in his job at the White House and, again, he's very close to this president.

I do not believe there'll be a really tough time for Brennan. I don't know. John, what do you think?

BANFIELD: Well, John, and jump in here and add to that the drone issue because there are a lot of people who've said that -- and, you know, he was a big part of shaping the policy on using these unmanned aircraft and some people have called these a tool for extrajudicial killings.

KING: And there will be -- I think the best way to summarize it, Ashleigh, is this way. The Hagel nomination, the Hagel confirmation, will be more personal about his votes, his views, his past statements.

The Brennan confirmation will be much more of a policy discussion. Was the administration flatfooted in Benghazi? Has the administration been reactive or proactive when it comes to the Arab Spring?

And you make the point about the drones. This is very controversial. There are some Democrats that don't like it. There are a lot of sort of Ron Paul/Rand Paul libertarians who don't like it. So, he's going to face some sharp policy questions on that.

The administration's answer will be, at a time when Americans are very wary of projecting military force overseas, troops home from Iraq, coming home from Afghanistan, that the drone tactics have been largely effective.

That doesn't mean there won't be questions about using them in the future going forward, but I think the Brennan confirmation process will be much more about policy specific policy questions and, unlike Senator Hagel who has some friendships still in the Senate -- don't get me wrong.

I don't want to overstate it, but Mr. Brennan at the moment has broad bipartisan respect and trust among the key intelligence players on Capitol Hill.

BANFIELD: And there will certainly be a lot of voices weighing in on this and we're, what, about a little less than two hours away from hearing this officially from the president himself?

Gloria Borger, John King, good to see you both. Happy new year.

BORGER: You, too.

BANFIELD: I want to look past the confirmation process for a moment and look at what, perhaps, a Chuck Hagel Pentagon might actually look like.

And joining me now to talk about that is retired Army General Mark Kimmitt. General Kimmitt, thanks for being with me. I know it's not a surprise to you either. Chuck Hagel's name has been bandied about for a while now, but I just wanted to get your first impression.

GENERAL MARK KIMMITT (RETIRED), FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL-MILITARY AFFAIRS: Well, I agree with some of the analysis that was given by Gloria Borger and John King.

It will be a bit of a confirmation fight, but it's not going to be a huge battle. I would suspect at the end of the day there will be some votes against him in the United States Senate, but, by and large, I think both sides of the aisle realize that Chuck Hagel is exceptionally well qualified for this job and he's going to carry on the tradition of his predecessors quite well.

BANFIELD: Now, here's something I don't think you will like. It's an excerpt from a "Financial Times" interview in which he talked about budgets, particularly the Pentagon's budget. I think he used the word "bloated."

Let me play it and then get your reaction to it on the other side. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL (R), FORMER SENATOR, NEBRASKA: Defense Department I think in many ways has been bloated. So, I think the Pentagon needs to be paired down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think the Pentagon needs to be pared down. Usually those are -- pardon the pun -- but fighting words for someone of your ilk.

KIMMITT: Well, the good part about this is Chuck Hagel may get exactly what he wants which is the opportunity to go in and have the Defense Department defend its budget and then he'll make those decisions. I think the more important thing is that, as we look to this post- Iraq, post-Afghanistan period, are we going to have a strategy driven by resources or resources driven by the strategy?

BANFIELD: That's a good point. Pardon me.

And I wanted to ask you about how your colleagues within the military feel about that, particularly as we continue to move into a new model of warfare.

The drones we just spoke of seem to be increasingly popular as not only a spy technique, but also as an attack technique and is that something that is going to have a huge bearing on how we do model our budgets as we move into the future?

KIMMITT: Well, as I said earlier, hopefully, we're going to have a strategy for this post- 9/11 period that's driven by the threats, driven by the capabilities that we're seeking and not driven by the resources that are going to be allocated.

We can't make the mistakes after previous wars which is just go into a death spiral down to a much lower defense budget.

We've got to accept that it's a dangerous world out there. We're not going to get what we need in the way of a defense budget, a perfect defense budget, but we've got to be very, very careful on the risks that we take and I think somebody with the experience of Chuck Hagel is precisely the right kind of person we need at the helm of that process.

BANFIELD: And what about other people within the military and their personal opinions of Chuck Hagel if they even have them at this point? Because they may be looking at him in a whole new light as of the last couple of weeks.

KIMMITT: Well, let's remind ourselves. This is the first private infantry soldier who's going to be, one day, the secretary of defense we would hope.

He's proven himself on the battlefield as an enlisted soldier and I just think it's terrific that somebody of his background, and I think many of my colleagues feel the same way, that it's great to see somebody who has once carried a rifle in combat is now leading the Department of Defense.

BANFIELD: And as I understand it, he actually walks around with shrapnel still in his chest, too.

KIMMITT: He does, yes.

BANFIELD: So, I think people will remember that as he goes in for any kind of confirmation hearings if it goes that far.

General Kimmitt, it's good to see you. Thanks so much and happy new year.

KIMMITT: Happy new year to you.

BANFIELD: And be sure to stay with us, as well, because we've got special coverage planned all day long for the president's announcements, particularly on Chuck Hagel, as well.

Wolf Blitzer is going to anchor our coverage and it all gets under way at 12:30 p.m.

So, a rabbi who has known Chuck Hagel for more than two decades says that he is embarrassed that critics are saying the former senator is anti-Semitic.

We're going to talk to him in just five minutes.

And some other top stories that we're following. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, back to work and looking terrific as she waves to the press. All of this less than a week after getting out of the hospital where she was being treated for a blood clot that doctors found in her head.

Last month, Mrs. Clinton suffered a concussion after a fall and tomorrow she'll be at the White House for some high-level security meetings.

Are you ready for the next financial cliff? Do you remember that sequestration deal that we just barely staved off, the one that is still looming if Congress won't make the big spending cuts?

Well, the Speaker of the House says it is time to just let it happen. Go off the cliff and suffer the automatic cuts.

John Boehner has told "The Wall Street Journal" that Republicans are willing to take a huge hit on what they've tried to protect, the defense budget, but in turn, he says Democrats are going to have to accept the automatic cuts to their sacred cow, entitlement programs, or else come to the table and negotiate something else.

And, by the way, there's something else. Speaker Boehner tell "The Journal," quote, "I need this job like I need a hole in my head." I think a lot of people would understand that at this point.

On to other news, as well, across the country. Aurora, Colorado, movie theater shooting suspect, James Holmes, in court this very moment, in fact. It is the first day of a preliminary hearing that actually could take all week.

Twelve people were killed and more than 50 others were hurt in that attack and many of those wounded victims could be testifying during this hearing. He's facing an astonishing 166 charges, including murder and attempted murder.

And we're going to have a lot more on this case, particularly how do you defend him? Huge question, huge strategies. That's coming up later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: More now on our top story, President Obama's nomination of former Republican Senator Chuck Hagel for defense secretary.

Administration officials say the president will make it official in about two hours and our special coverage here on CNN will begin at 12:30 Eastern time.

And as we mentioned, Chuck Hagel has faced some sharp criticisms from some fellow Republicans as well as Democrats over what they say are his anti-Israeli positions and also for being soft on Iran. Those are their accusations.

Rabbi Aryeh Azriel -- I hope I pronounced that right, Rabbi. It's a tricky name. He called those views extremely stupid.

Did I get your name right?

RABBI ARYEH AZRIEL, CONGREGATION TEMPLE ISRAEL: Almost.

BANFIELD: OK. All right. Give me another shot at it, all right? This is a tricky one. Or maybe you give it to me with the accurate pronunciation so I don't mess it up again.

AZRIEL: It's Aryeh Azriel.

BANFIELD: Well, that was easy. So, give me for your sense after having knowing Chuck Hagel for more than 20 years. He's visited your congregation. Give me your personal impressions on the senator.

AZRIEL: I'm looking forward for this nomination and I hope the hearing will be smooth and easy.

I have known him. I met him actually a few months before he was elected as senator from the state of Nebraska and, in all our conversations, I was always impressed with his amazing knowledge, with his integrity, with his ability to speak his mind.

And, so, I think that this will be a wonderful choice for our government to have additional voice, a clarion voice for security and safety for the Middle East.

BANFIELD: So, Rabbi, some of his critics have said that they were not the least bit impressed with how he referred to as the "Jewish lobby." Did you not take offense with that terminology?

AZRIEL: Not at all, not at all.

I think some of the people in our community, and this is a minority of people, I think they're still licking their wounds as a result of Obama's victory and, therefore, they are getting this mud being thrown at Chuck Hagel's face for no reason at all.

Some of the things I read in the newspapers and in articles are absolutely bold lies and I think that this is not going to help them at all. BANFIELD: But what about the criticism that he's been soft on Iran, that he opposed sanctions, that he, alongside the president, has had the opinion that it is perhaps good diplomacy to try to work with Iran?

Is that not something that you think would raise the hackles of supporters of Israel across this country?

AZRIEL: There are so many supporters of Israel in this country that would like to find a peaceful way of approaching the issue of Iran.

In my conversations with Chuck Hagel and, as a result of many visits to the region, I found him extremely resolute and strong in being able to create a more diplomatic and better way of maneuvering that relationship.

I, like many other Jews in America and many Israelis, would like to see other ways of achieving a solution than to continue talking about war and military response.

BANFIELD: And as I understand it, your synagogue comprises a more reform congregation, some would say that's a less conservative kind of congregation.

With that perspective, can you give me your feelings for how Chuck Hagel is viewed in Israel among Jews in Israel?

AZRIEL: The members of my congregation, Temple Israel in Omaha, Nebraska, are all lovers and supporters of the state of Israel and, so, just because we are progressive liberal movement doesn't mean that we don't worry about the security and the health of the state of Israel.

At the same time, we are concerned about the Middle East. It's not the best neighborhood in the world to live in.

I grew up in Israel. I was born in Israel and, therefore, I think that Chuck Hagel is a voice that can actually move an agenda, a whole different conversation, that definitely needs to happen with regard to the Middle East.

BANFIELD : Well, I do appreciate your perspective and it's great having the Nebraska perspective, as well, since you have that personal contact with them.

Rabbi Aryeh Azriel -- hope I got it right this time -- thank you so much for being with us.

AZRIEL: OK. And please tell people that there are Jews in Nebraska.

BANFIELD: All right. And happy new year to you, as well.

AZRIEL: Happy new year to you, too. Shalom.

BANFIELD: Thank you so much. Shalom. And from Chuck Hagel -- from the supporters of Chuck Hagel to the opponents of Chuck Hagel, Bing West and Hagel share something in common. Both of them are combat vets, but that is where the similarity ends.

He's going to join us at our half hour on why he is opposed to Chuck Hagel for defense secretary.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you got your paycheck on Friday and you noticed it was a little smaller, you can thank the expired payroll tax holiday. Happy 2013.

Guess what else is coming in 2013? Higher prices for just about everything on your daily menu, the menu of life.

And Christine Romans is here to tell us not only what they are, but what we can do about it, if anything.

Let me start with the grocery store.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Sure.

BANFIELD: Everyone has to go to the grocery store and that's going to be a little tougher.

ROMANS: Yeah, and make a list, right? You hear that all the time. Your grandmother did it. Make a list because, look, things are -- prices of a lot of things are rising.

It starts with corns and grains. Remember the drought we told you about last summer? It's the drought. It's also global demand for grains is rising, so corn.

Corn feeds into -- well, you use it to feed animals, right? You use it to make cereal. You use it to make snack foods. You use it to make corn syrup. You also use it to feed animals, so meat prices likely going to be up 3 percent to 4 percent his year. So, you can pay more for your hamburger.

You're also already seeing people start to cut back on one thing to make sure they can -- look at that sandwich. Oh, my goodness.

BANFIELD: Cut back on the side of the sandwich.

ROMANS: I don't think you should eat that particular sandwich this year, folks. It's going to cost more. Plus, Dr. Sanjay Gupta would have a problem with that sandwich.

BANFIELD: It's true. So, groceries, across the board, looking like they're going to be a lot more expensive.

What about -- not everybody uses the U.S. post, but mail in general, we do depend on it whether we buy stamps or not. And, also, public transit, a lot of us depend on that. ROMANS: Two things you probably can't do much about. Mail prices are going up. It's looks like maybe -- I don't know. Maybe 4 percent, could be the higher cost of shipping something according to CNNMoney and you're going to see a penny increase in the price of a stamp at the end of this month, folks. So, forever stamps.

Public transit, you know, in Chicago, in New York, in a lot of towns, they're talking about raising the cost of either a one-time only ticket or even the monthly benefits.

You can't do much about that, but it is still cheaper than driving your car and parking in some of these cities, so that's the advantage.

BANFIELD: OK and we all have to live somewhere and, so, you have the option to rent; you have the option to buy. What's the story on both of those?

ROMANS: So, the story here, rents are rising. In December, you saw 5 percent year over year increase in rentals.

Why? It's the landlord has the upper hand here really because people aren't buying. They can't buy. They've maybe lost their home. They're moving into the rental market, right?

So, you've got rents are rising at the same time that housing costs are creeping up. The price of a home is creeping up. So, if you're already in a home and you didn't buy it at the bubble, this is good for you, right? It's good to be in the home.

If you're a renter right now who's been waiting out this, you know, catastrophe in the housing market, you're starting to notice that your rent bills are going up.

BANFIELD: Your rent bills are going up so you may want to get into the housing market. You may want to get a loan, but that's not always easy either.

Does somebody have the better edge in terms of what mortgages are doing right now and where rent -- where interest rates are?

ROMANS: The edge goes to the first-time home buyer who has 20 percent down for a house and an impeccable credit score. Because if you look at these mortgage rates, they're unbelievable. We may never see money this cheap again in our life.

And it comes with a big asterisks. You have to be pretty much an impeccable borrower. Thirty-year fixed rate, 3.34 percent. Fifteen- year fixed, 2.64 percent.

If you have a mortgage right now in the 5 percent or 6 percent for a 30-year fixed, please, please refinance it. A lot of people who haven't. If you already refinanced a year ago and you think you can only refinance once, you can refinance again. The money is still so cheap.

BANFIELD: But if they tell you no, you have a lousy credit score, you may want to take advantage of that and you just can't?

ROMANS: And that's a lot of people, so you need to spend the next year repairing your credit score and that -- I mean, rates are going to stay low. They're going to start creeping up, I think, but I think they'll stay low.

BANFIELD: You know, this woman literally wrote the book on how to speak money. It is called "How to Speak Money." So, a little behind the scenes story, we have desks very close to each other and I said, would you mind putting together a segment on how to fix your credit score.

Can you do that?

ROMANS: I can do it.

BANFIELD: For Wednesday?

ROMANS: Sure.

BANFIELD: You free for lunch, too?

ROMANS: Sure. Come back in exactly two days and we will fix all your credit score problems.

BANFIELD: All right, so let's do that. This week, we're going to do how to fix your credit score because I think a lot of people think that that's something we can do, but we can.

ROMANS: It's doable. It's doable.

BANFIELD: Awesome.

ROMANS: This is the year to do it. If your credit score isn't great, this is the year to fix it. 2013 is the year of repair.

BANFIELD: Plus, there's always a good song that goes along with credit scores.

We've to go. We're back after this.

Christine Romans, thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: What we eat shouldn't make us sick, especially if what we think we're eating is healthy, right? Fresh fruits, lots of greens. But it happens all the time.

And now finally the government is taking some pretty basic steps to try to make sure that the food you eat is a lot safer.

Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now to explain.

So, what sort of things are we talking about in terms of rules? Because you kind of think they should already be there, aren't they?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, when you hear them, Ashleigh, you would think they definitely should have already been there and, in fact, safety advocates have been begging for these for years and they're thrilled that finally the FDA is doing these very basic things.

For example, better measures to keep animals out of fields where crops are growing because what animals do in fields? They poop in fields and we certainly don't want that.

Better rules to get farm workers to wash their hands and this last one, a little gross, but I have to say it, OK? Got to say it, which is, port-a-potties for the workers because when they don't have them, what do they do?

BANFIELD: Oh, come on. No way, Elizabeth.

COHEN: Way. Way.

BANFIELD: You're telling me that's not already a regulation?

COHEN: No, no. There aren't strict rules like the rules doing here.

And, again, you can see why safety advocates have been so frustrated over the years because some of the things are so basic and they're really hoping that these will be fully implemented and make a difference.

Because, Ashleigh, I mean, you and I have done these segments, you know, salmonella in peanut butter, e. Coli in spinach. I mean, the outbreaks just seem to go on and on.

BANFIELD: And, in fact, I was just going to bring that up. Call me naive, but when I reported, quite often in the last several years about lettuce issues and the spinach that you just brought up and then we did track that down to human issues in the field, I thought it was a blip. Is this problem really serious?