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FDA Takes Steps to Stem Food Contamination; Ex Official: Hagel Bad Choice for Defense Secretary; Egyptian President Agrees Assad Should Go; Stocks Losing Momentum; Movie Theater Shooting Suspect in Court.

Aired January 07, 2013 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And they're really hoping these will be fully implemented and make a difference. Because, Ashleigh, you and I have done the segments -- salmonella in peanut butter, E. coli in spinach. The outbreaks seem to go on and on.

BANFIELD: In fact, I was going to bring that up. Call me naive but when I reported, quite often in the last several years, about lettuce and spinach and then we did track it down to human issues in the field, I thought it was a blip. Is this problem serious?

COHEN: Apparently, it's not a blip. Apparently, this is something that happens quite often. You know, every so often it will cause problems. So, yes, this is a serious problem. And take a look at the results. One in six Americans sick from food-borne illness, 128,000 hospitalized, 3,000 die. These are big numbers.

BANFIELD: Wow.

COHEN: And the frustration is that much of this is avoidable.

BANFIELD: 3,000 die. Remarkable. The advocates pushing for what we know now are basic rules, they must be thrilled about this, and I'm guessing, at same time, there will be those who are very frustrated because it's going to cost money to police that.

BANFIELD: Right. They are thrilled. But here's what they're hesitant about. They say the government has to put the money in to make it happen. For example, with the Port-a-Potties, you can say, put them out there, but if you don't give the money to make that happen, and you don't have inspectors making that happen -- and by giving the money I don't mean they don't have to pay for -- the government doesn't have to pay for the Port-a-Potties, but they have to pay for the inspectors to make sure that it happens. And they're concerned that there's not going to be enough money to police this.

BANFIELD: Ah, I think that's the next segment. The number of inspectors compared to what we need, and the number we end up getting.

Elizabeth, good to see you. Thank you.

COHEN: Good to see you. Thanks. BANFIELD: Be sure to visit -- this is great. I always say this -- CNN.com/empoweredpatient. Because Elizabeth also wrote the book, "Empowered Patient." She knows a lot of great stuff and she has tips about how to keep your food safe.

And in just about 90 minutes, President Obama's expected to nominate Chuck Hagel as his choice for defense secretary. A former secretary is adamant that Chuck Hagel is not the right man for this job. We'll ask Bing West why he feels that way despite others who say the opposite.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "He is too ambitious with scant strategic concepts for dedication to defense." That's a quote. It's also stinging criticism of Chuck Hagel by a former comrade in arms, Bing West. They're both combat veterans. But West is strong in his opinion that Hagel lacks the, quote, "gravitas," for the job of defense secretary.

As mentioned, President Obama is expected to nominate Chuck Hagel for that post a little on today. And our special coverage with Wolf Blitzer will begin live at 12:30 p.m.

Bing West is a former assistant defense secretary for international security affairs. His new book is called "Into the Fire: A Firsthand Account of the Most Extraordinary Battle in the Afghan War."

He joins us now, live.

Mr. West, thanks so much for being with us.

I would have expected perhaps some criticism but not this much stinging criticism, especially from a fellow combat veteran. When you say he doesn't have the gravitas, he's the first Vietnam vet who might be secretary of defense. He was in the Senate and was on the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee. That's not enough?

BING WEST, FORMER ASSISTANT DEFENSE SECRETARY FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS & AUTHOR: I'm afraid not, Ashleigh. Many people have fought in Vietnam. We have had many Senators who fought in Vietnam. We face, with the Pentagon, some enormous problems. I have worked for seven secretaries of defense. But, right now, we're trying to get our troops out of a war we didn't win and, at the same time, the Pentagon will be hit with a cascading flood of cuts. And for that kind of an environment, you don't need somebody who's an outsider, who doesn't have the practical experience, and who's nakedly ambitious for the job.

What I don't get about this is the deputy secretary of defense, Ashton Carter, has all the experience in the world. He's a loyal Democrat. He's done a terrific job. And the undersecretary of defense, Michele Flournoy, is trusted throughout the military.

So the president had people loyal to him with the qualifications and gone to an outside person, whose reputation is that of a maverick, who makes off-the-cuff decisions, and I think that's very bad for the Defense Department and for our security at this particular time in history.

BANFIELD: Well, let me ask you on that issue of being an outsider. Some say that's exactly what's needed. I'm not so sure how outside he is, having served in Congress already, but an outsider is someone that's needed. someone who's ambitious might be what you need, considering the politics necessary in the Defense Department and the fact he's -- the president is reaching across the aisle to the Republicans may supersede the choices you mentioned as better choices for Democrats. Now those are three things to sort of tackle head-on, but have at it.

WEST: OK. I have very little to do with politics, but the notion that Mr. Hagel is a Republican seems to be rejected by the Republicans, but I have no opinion about that.

But in terms of qualifications, your other point about, well, he has this experience. Not compared to the others who were in line right there. I mean, he has to get up to speed now on issues where he's already spoken out in rather strange ways. I mean, he says things like, we shouldn't be involved in senseless wars. What does that mean? I mean, what person is going to say we should be involved a senseless war? So I really question whether he has the gravitas.

I watched as the assistant to Secretary of Defense Schlesinger when Vietnam was going down and Schlesinger was agonizing over losing American troops, watching the budget cuts, and losing a war, and I don't have the feeling that Hagel indicates to us that he understands how grave the situation is.

I mean, you look at current Secretary of Defense Panetta and he is a loyal Democrat but he was the first to say, my gosh, we are going too far in cutting defense. I think defense needs a very strong steward, not necessarily an outsider, but somebody who understands the weight of the issues that he's been dealing with and that are going to be thrust on his plate.

(CROSSTALK)

WEST: I think we need somebody who doesn't want to be there. OK.

BANFIELD: Yes. Well, I think a lot of people are saying they -- I think John Boehner just said, I need this job like a hole in the head. It's pretty tough to be anywhere near Washington these days.

But let's ask you about the senseless war issue. A lot of people said that Iraq was a senseless war and that surges were senseless. However you feel about them, there have been those critics, as well. When we are facing the kind of cutbacks that this government absolutely must make, shouldn't that be the way to talk? If we're talking about senseless war, it's pulling the belts tighter. Isn't that the kind of guy you need?

WEST: I agree that all of us across the board -- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, all of it has to be tightened. That's not the issue. The issue is whether you have the gravitas of your position where you've thought it through carefully and you just don't come out and say, I'm against surges. The surge worked, but that's not my criticism of the man. My criticism of the man is that he appears to make off-the-cuff decisions at a time when we desperately do not need somebody making off-the-cuff decisions.

And he has to be very careful with the morale of our troops. If you come out and say, you've been fighting a senseless war, you're driving down the morale of your own troops, and we can't afford to do that.

And Deputy Secretary of Defense Carter and Undersecretary Flournoy have done a wonderful job. On balance, I believe the president, for some strange reason, went to a third-stringer when he had first- stringers available.

BANFIELD: I sense we will have a lot of different viewpoints, yours and others alike, that we're going to hear during some confirmation hearings if, in the next 80 minutes or so, what we all expect to bear out will bear out, and that's the suggestion for the nomination.

Bing West, thank you for being with us. Hope we get a chance to talk again.

WEST: Thank you, Ashleigh. Thank you.

BANFIELD: Cheers to you.

So a reminder, President Obama's going to announce those nominations not only for the sec def, but for the CIA chief, and that's coming up this afternoon.

We have got the best in the business, trust me, because Wolf Blitzer is going to helm our coverage, and it all gets under way at 12:30 with his excellent team, as well.

Another key leader in the Middle East at this point is throwing his support behind the Syrians and also fighting to overthrow their president, Bashar al Assad. I said he was the best in the business. Wolf Blitzer has an exclusive with Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi. Morsi saying he backs the calls by the Syrian people for Assad to step down. Possibly, possibly, be tried for war crimes, although nuanced in that respect, depending on who it is that does the trying. He says that ultimately the fate of Assad must be decided by the Syrians of all walks of life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMED MORSI, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT; The Syrian people through their revolution and through the movement will, when the bloodshed stops, move to a new stage where they will have an independent parliament and the government of their choosing. And then they'll decide what they want to do against those who committed crimes against them. It is the Syrian people who decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Great interview, and very, very timely, as well. You can see all of it with Wolf Blitzer's exclusive interview. That's the Egyptian President Morsi on "The Situation Room" today, starting at 4:00 p.m. eastern, of course, only here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So if you are watching the markets last week, you know that Wall Street kicked off the New Year in a pretty nice little way. However, we also gave you the warning it wouldn't last, perhaps.

Alison Kosik is here with a market check.

We're week two. Give me the news. How are we doing today?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Stocks, Ashleigh, having a tough time picking up momentum today, despite, you know, 2013 getting off to a pretty good start. Friday, we saw the S&P 500 close at its highest level in five years. The question is, is this momentum going to stick around? Investors are expecting a rocky month ahead. The wild card is what will happen with the debt ceiling in a couple of months? If it's anything like what happened during last summer's negotiations, and when, of course, the U.S. -- when the U.S.'s credit was downgraded, we could be in for the roller coaster ride for the markets again.

As for the more immediate focus, fourth-quarter corporate earnings season begins tomorrow, after the closing bell. Investors are going to be paying close attention because the fourth-quarter reports wrap up the year, they give investors the clearest picture of how these companies did, and whether or not the fiscal cliff had anything to do with these company's results, as well -- Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Of course, we have more of these fiscal cliffs, to come, as well. So that means you have more reports to come.

Alison, thank you.

KOSIK: Of course.

BANFIELD: And we also want to keep an eye on -- well, keep an eye on the markets through out the day. You can check out CNNmoney.com. We have constant reporting to update what's going on there. And it does change.

And then also things that change, the weather. I don't know if it's warm where you are, but I'm sure if you're in Florida, it's lovely, but it seems as though the weather is warmer. Am I crazy?

Don't answer that, Chad.

(LAUGHTER)

Is it unusual?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: That's all -- I'll answer that one.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Safer ground. Go for it. MYERS: We will be 70 in Atlanta Thursday in to Friday but the west will take the brunt of it. This is a shift in the jet stream where it's cold in the west, warm in the east, and it will change. Don't get used to it.

Rain and snow across the Rockies in to the Cascades. Could see 14 inches of snow in some spots. Good snow for skiers, I guess. Not good to travel through it as a driver. Make sure you know about this coming. There's rain coming to Texas, as well. They'll take this rain. Still getting over the drought down here to the south. And that rain will get up to the Red River. That's some good news. That goes Tuesday in to Wednesday. And the forecast is, some of these areas, all red, four to six inches of rain across the area that desperately needs it. Still does need the rain. Could see severe weather threat, maybe a rain shower or two that could maybe make a hailstone or two.

Other than that, I know what you want to see. You want to see whether it will be raining for the big game tonight, and probably not. A couple of showers right now but, by 8:00, they calm down and a beautiful night in Miami, Florida.

BANFIELD: The big game, the big game. Hockey -- there's no hockey being played. You know you're talking to a Canadian. That's a whole other thing.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: The big game is a whole other thing in my world.

MYERS: Hey, I touched the Stanley Cup with the Detroit Red Wings.

BANFIELD: Oh.

MYERS: I had a white glove on, but I touched it.

BANFIELD: I have a new opinion of you, my friend.

(LAUGHTER)

I have stood beside it with white gloves as well. Quite an awesome -- listen.

(CROSSTALK)

Nobody who's -- it's a big deal for us hockey fans.

MYERS: We are in Buffalo.

BANFIELD: All right, so you get it. You are in the club.

(LAUGHTER)

Hey, Chad, thank you. Good to see you.

MYERS: Bye-bye. BANFIELD: Bye, now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The man accused of unleashing horror in a Colorado movie theater is in court as we speak. James Holmes will hear from scores of witnesses as they recall details of last year's massive shooting.

Here is Casey Wian with more.

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, prosecutors are expected to call up to 70 witnesses over the next several days to try to persuade a judge that there is enough evidence that James Holmes should go to trial for the murder of 12 people and the attempted murder of dozens of others. 166 counts against him, in total.

Some of the evidence that we'll see in court today, we will see for the first time because there has been a gag order over the prosecution and the defense. Even the University of Colorado where James Holmes was a student before he went -- allegedly went on this shooting rampage.

Also in court today are expected to be family members of the victims. They have been given warnings by the prosecution of the type of testimony they should expect.

Here is what one had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA WATTS, RELATIVE OF VICTIM: They talked about the fact that they are going to play snippets of roughly 30 hours of footage inside the theater. They talked about autopsy results and still photographs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIAN: Although there has been a gage order, there have been some public filings and it's clear from those filings that the defense intends to present some sort of limited mental capacity defense on the behalf of James Holmes. He will not enter a plea at this preliminary hearing. That will come down the road at an arraignment if a judge, as expected, rules he must stand trial -- Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Casey Wian, thank you.

We'll have a team of reporters -- they're inside the courtroom right now, in fact -- can't use Blackberries in there. It's very difficult to get in and out. As soon as the news starts breaking, we'll bring you the very latest.

Meantime we do have a closer look at, how do you defend someone like this? This is very tricky. Casey said it, 166 counts. 70 witnesses just today.

Award-winning trial attorney, Darren Kavinoky, is with me.

So first of all, let's just start with the basics. A preliminary hearing --

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Yes.

BANFIELD: We have to go to a quick break. I beg your pardon. I've just been told we have to go to a quick break. When we come back, in a moment.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So, six months ago, we were all reporting this horrible crime in Aurora, Colorado. Now James Holmes is into the legal process for real.

Darren Kavinoky, who I introduced just before we went to break, is here.

Start this way. We're in a preliminary hearing with 70 witnesses in a week-long. What are we trying to establish in the prelim?

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY & HOST, DEADLY SINS: It's like a mini trial where the judge will decide whether or not there's enough evidence for the case to go forward. Onlookers are saying, why is this even an issue? It's part of the process, though. Civil matters, unlike that, attorneys can't take depositions. Mental health issues that are really driving this case.

BANFIELD: You hit exactly where I want to go now. Casey Wian, in his reporting, has told us we'll learn a lot more details in this prelim, a lot more evidence we haven't known before. Won't we also, in the very way the defense attorneys do their cross examination, won't we know what defense they're going to use? I don't think they'll go after an insanity defense at this time.

KAVINOKY: There's no real mystery about where this case is headed. This is not a whodunit. The case will turn on the mental health issues. We talked about insanity, a total defense where a defendant doesn't understand and appreciate the wrongfulness of their conduct, they can't be held criminally liable. With diminished capacity, it's slightly different. It's that there's still mental health issues going on, but you can be held criminally liable just for a lesser crime. So it can turn a murder into manslaughter.

BANFIELD: A lot of people don't understand that, though. You have insanity, which I think some people assume right away, well, if you have some kind of mental illness, you might actually qualify for an insanity defense. You can be mentally ill and not insane. Make no mistake. What about diminished capacity, what do you have to prove -- does it help you that much?

KAVINOKY: It's all a matter of degree. For the insanity defense to apply somebody has got to be so mentally ill or have such a defect or disease that they just don't appreciate that what they're doing is wrong. They've completely lost touch with reality essentially.

BANFIELD: They can't reach that whole insanity bar with that, but they can reach part of it?

KAVINOKY: Right. That's where we're talking about this diminished capacity. There's something going on -- anybody looking at this goes oh, my god, how could any normal, rational, sane person --

BANFIELD: How could he not be crazy?

KAVINOKY: How could he not be crazy, exactly? Diminished capacity says essentially that you can't meet the requirements of, say, murder, which requires this premeditation, deliberation, this intent to kill. But you can still be held criminally responsible for a lesser crime such as manslaughter.

BANFIELD: I got five seconds left. Is this an attempt to save his life from the death penalty?

KAVINOKY: Ultimately, that would be a huge win.

BANFIELD: Darren Kavinoky, great to see you.

Season two, Investigative Discoveries. Your show "Deadly Sins" starts Saturday.

KAVINOKY: This Saturday.

BANFIELD: Congratulations. Great show.

KAVINOKY: Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: You're great on it, too.

It's nice to see you. Thanks for coming in.

KAVINOKY: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Happy New Year.

That wraps it up for me. I am fresh out of time. Thanks for watching, everyone.

Suzanne Malveaux is going to take the baton from here with NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

President Obama is announcing his new cabinet choices that will shape the future of the U.S. military as well as defense policy, as well as intelligence gathering.