Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Discussion of Brennan as CIA Director Nomination; Missing Skydiver Sought; Talking NCAA Football Championship Game with Joe Namath; Gun Control Debate

Aired January 07, 2013 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Want to bring in Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, who is in Los Angeles for us today and let's talk about John Brennan, his chances.

Do you think he will for the most part sail through those hearings?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think many people believe he will be confirmed by the Senate, but there will be a lot of talk, a lot of questions and it's very likely to be quite a fiery confirmation hearing before the Senate intelligence committee.

This gives the senators the chance in public to ask him about everything from the Benghazi diplomatic compound attack to drone warfare and really to focus in, perhaps, on where the CIA is going after all these years of war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, now drone warfare, as you point out, in Pakistan, in Yemen, in so many places that we don't really know about.

What's the role of the CIA? How is the CIA partnering up with military troops around the world? Where does it all really go from here?

This gives them the real opportunity to get him in front of the public in front of TV cameras and ask him these questions, Brooke.

BALDWIN: While I have you, let me ask about Chuck Hagel because -- and whoever it is that becomes the secretary of defense, you know, you have to deal with all these looming spending cuts which you know so intimately covering the Pentagon for us.

Do we know where Chuck Hagel stands on the Pentagon's budget, specifically?

STARR: Well, he has long been an advocate of cutting military spending. He has spoken in the past often about the -- his belief that there is bloat in the Pentagon budget.

So what are we looking at here? Well, in the next couple of months, Congress comes back, struggles with the budget, with the fiscal cliff, with this so-called sequestration, perhaps another $500 billion over 10 years in Pentagon spending cuts.

Where will Hagel come out on this? Because he will be facing, of course, very tough -- a very tough lobby by defense contractors who want to preserve spending, many members of Congress who see defense spending traditionally as jobs in their districts. They're not going to give it up so easy, even though they talk about cutting defense spending.

So, he's going to have to work this problem. It is sort of generally said that Hagel has the political skills after being a senator for so many years to operate in Washington and do this.

But the Pentagon's a huge organization. I think one question is, will he have the management skills inside the government bureaucracy to carry all of this out?

BALDWIN: A good friend of his said to us, last hour, he is the bluntest man he's ever known.

Barbara Starr, thank you so much for us from Los Angeles today.

A veteran sky diver goes missing, mid-flight, and search crews in the rugged mountainous region of Washington state face danger now, looking for this missing man.

A live report on the search, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I want to take you now to Washington state, just east of Seattle. Search teams have been scouring the rugged Cascade foothills. They're looking for a man by the name of Kurt Ruppert, an experienced skydiver from Florida.

He vanished back on Thursday after jumping out of a helicopter at some 6,500 feet in the air, but here's the thing. He wasn't just skydiving. He was wearing this special winged suit allowing him to glide through the air rather than simply freefall.

But the search for Ruppert has been called off for now because of dense fog.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's trees. There's rocks. There's cliffs. It's a very dangerous environment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Sergeant Cindy West from the King County sheriff's department joins me now on the phone from Seattle.

So, Sergeant, thank you for calling in. I understand that authorities initially have been using cell phone pings trying to locate him. Are you getting any sign from him whatsoever?

WEST (via telephone): I'm sorry. I can barely hear you. I think we have a bad connection.

BALDWIN: Sergeant, can you hear me now? Oh, this is never fun on live TV. Cindy West, let me try one more time. I'm just trying to ask you about this man and it sounds like it's a bad connection.

WEST (via telephone): I can hear you now.

BALDWIN: You do hear me. OK, excellent. So, let me just -- here's what I was asking.

I know that folks in the sheriff's department using pings from his cell phone to try to get a location. Are you getting anything from him right now?

WEST (via telephone): No, unfortunately the pings we were getting from the cell phone were probably prior to the jump. We believe that he either turned the cell phone off prior to the jump or after the jump it was damaged.

And in keep in mind it doesn't give you an exact GPS location. It gives you a general triangulation.

So, based on that, the flight pattern of the helicopter, we narrowed it down to an area we thought was the most probable area that he was in.

Unfortunately, we spent four days searching the area and the only areas left to search are areas that are basically -- we're not able to search on the ground. They're steep cliffs and ravines and, when the weather clears, we'll hopefully get our helicopter back up there to look.

BALDWIN: So, I imagine what is also making this difficult, and I'm no expert in winged suits, but instead of someone just free falling out of a helicopter which would help you pinpoint a location, he could have flown anywhere.

WEST (via telephone): That's exactly correct. And that's part of the issue here is that, from what we understand, initially we thought he was probably flying 50-to-60-miles-per-hour.

But after talking to his jump friends, we found that, more likely, he was traveling 80-to-100-miles-per-hour which -- you know, feet-per- second means that in just the matter of a few seconds, he's going to be over a large area.

And then the other issue is we don't know exactly what direction he went. We know that the direction that he intended to go.

But according to his fellow skydivers, if something happened, then he would make a diversion, either right or left, to try to, you know, for safety.

And, so, we have -- we figured probably about a 14-square mile area that it's possible he could be in.

BALDWIN: And I know the window, given the weather and the cold, is probably shrinking here as you are able to finally get out and, hopefully, find him.

Sergeant Cindy West, thank you. Good luck.

In just a couple of hours, game on. Two big college football teams, Alabama and Notre Dame, face off in Miami for the BCS National Championship game.

Guess who is calling in? This man, Hall of Famer and Alabama alum Joe Namath, joining me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Two huge college football teams, both with impressive football pasts, playing for all the glory tonight, Alabama, Notre Dame, the BCS National Championship game tonight.

One team's past has been a little bit better, though, lately. The Crimson Tide is achieving dynasty status in college football. Alabama looking for its second straight national championship, third -- keep in mind -- in just the last four years.

As for Notre Dame, they're more of a rising-from-the-ashes story. The undefeated and top-ranked Fighting Irish are playing their first championship game since 1988.

And guess who's on the phone with me right now. Football Hall of Famer, Alabama alum, host of "Joe Namath Hour" on ESPN Radio, Mr. Joe Namath himself. Joe Namath, welcome.

JOE NAMATH, "JOE NAMATH HOUR," ESPN RADIO (via telephone): Thank you, Brooke. It's great to be talking with you anytime and especially with the Tide in the hunt for the championship.

BALDWIN: I'm sure. I'll get you to do a little roll tide for me in a minute. Obviously, this whole -- this is not going to be an objective interview. Let me just throw that out there because we know how you bleed, Joe Namath.

But, so, Alabama, Notre Dame, you have these two teams, rich in tradition, I want you to put this game in perspective for me tonight for a CNN audience. I mean, how huge is this?

NAMATH (via telephone): How huge it is, I couldn't tell you other than it's, for a ballplayer, it certainly is the top that you can achieve as a collegiate athlete, a national championship, at least that's my way of looking at it.

Each level that we participate, whether it be high school, even Pop Warner, college, the next step, it's like your goal and a dream come true.

So, you cherish it and relationships that you've developed with that group of people for the rest of your life.

BALDWIN: How did that affect you? I know you led -- I know things were different. You didn't have the BCS Bowl game back in the '60s, but when you led the Crimson Tide to a national championship back in '64, what do you remember about that?

NAMATH (via telephone): It was not only a thrill, but it was an education as well.

At that age in life, I really understood that it was about us, us, not me, starting with our coach and our players and all, knowing how difficult it was to achieve. One guy doesn't do it and one guy doesn't excel without the help of his peers and that's the way life is.

So, going through that in college and learning how important it was to establish the kind of relationships that is necessary to continue to grow, that's what that was about. That was part of it.

You know, sure, the achievement, but knowing that it's more than you. You know, you ...

BALDWIN: Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course, you have your teammates.

But I mean, come on, imagine these guys and I could be wrong, but are they just so incredibly nervous right now or are they just focused?

NAMATH (via telephone): Well, I think that -- well, I know, I know the nerves are there. Actually, they've been basically climbing the walls without literally doing it since last night.

You get up today. It's one of the longest days of their lives and this is a positive day. Usually, you know, time drags on when something's negative, but this is a positive day. But they can't wait to get out there. So it's a long day.

And all of them are nervous, of course. Just like, well, no. There's no just likes. You're nervous, but when you learn to direct that nervous energy in a positive direction, only through preparation, if you're prepared, you'll be ready. It'll be fun.

BALDWIN: Yeah, I embrace nerves sometimes. I always remind myself it means that I care. I care so much about something.

And, just finally, Joe Namath, I mean, who can forget the big guarantee you made back at Super Bowl III? You want to make any guarantees for me tonight?

NAMATH (via telephone): Yes, I do. I guarantee the Crimson Tide respects the bunch they're going to be facing tonight.

Notre Dame, they're in this game because they went 12-and-0 undefeated and they know how to win.

BALDWIN: Give me roll tide, Joe Namath.

NAMATH (via telephone): Roll, tide, roll!

BALDWIN: Joe Namath, thank you so much. Good luck.

I should say, as an objective journalist, good luck to the Fighting Irish, as well.

By the way, if you want to catch up with Joe, he is on Twitter. His Twitter handler is @realjoenamath and his own website is BroadwayJoe.tv. There'll be quite the game tonight.

All you need to unlock your brain power is your iPhone ,your iPad or a laptop and some insects in a kit called the SpikerBox.

Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has this preview of "The Next List."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is brand-new stuff. I mean, this is has not happened.

So, this allows us to do neuroscience with the actual human being.

And we just made it so that you can actually have cavs (ph). You can actually put into your muscles and you're going to the electricity that's coming from your brain down to your axons onto your muscles and actually record that voltage. It's pretty neat.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Neuroscience in a box? Learning about the brain without a PhD.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You use cockroaches and crickets and worms and things that you can find in your backyard, which is why we came up with Backyard Brains.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that he was just a little bit buggy.

He knew that the marketplace needed these tools to help teach neuroscience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we're trying to do is change neuroscience education.

GUPTA: This Sunday, Greg Gage on "The Next List."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Tens of thousands of people want Piers Morgan deported for his stance on gun control. They have even signed a White House petition.

Coming up next, Piers is about to respond for the very first time on air. Don't miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School uncovered a lot of raw emotion on both sides of the gun control argument, including from our own Piers Morgan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY PRATT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA: I honestly don't understand why you would rather have people be victims of a crime than be able to defend themselves. It's incomprehensible.

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": You're an unbelievably stupid man, aren't you?

PRATT: It seems to me that you're morally obtuse. You seem to prefer being a victim to being able to prevail over the criminal element and I don't know why you want to be the criminal's friend.

MORGAN: What a ridiculous argument. You have absolutely no coherent argument, whatsoever.

You don't give a damn, do you, about the gun murder rate in America? You don't actually care. All you care about is the right for any American ...

PRATT: It seems to me that the facts don't bother you, Mr. Morgan.

JOHN LOTT, AUTHOR, "MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME": Every place that guns have been banned, murder rates have gone up. You cannot point to one place, whether it's Chicago, or whether it's D.C., or whether it's been England or whether it's been ...

MORGAN: Sorry, but that's a complete lie. It's a complete lie.

In Britain, the gun murder rate in Britain is 35 a year, average. You need to stop repeating a blatant lie about what happens in other countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, shortly after those fiery exchanges, this petition here to deport Piers Morgan was posted on the White House website, whitehouse.gov.

It's been up for a little over two weeks. We checked it just a little while ago. It has more than 100,000 signatures.

So, let me bring in Piers Morgan himself. Piers Morgan, nice to see you.

Tonight, you have a huge show because you are bringing on the guy who started this petition. Looking him straight in the eye, what are you going to tell him?

MORGAN: Well, A, that it hasn't worked. Because, clearly, I'm back on America. I've been on vacation. I got back last night. The customs guy at Newark airport said to me, Mr. Morgan, you can relax, we're not going to deport you, so that was an encouraging sign..

And, to be serious, although it is a fairly trivial matter, it's also a very serious issue that I have been getting very exercised about. You know, I come from a country, as I keep telling these gun rights lobbyists, where we had a Sandy Hook-style massacre in Scotland in 1996. We had, I think it was, 16 five-year-old children killed in a school.

And, as a result, there was a national handgun ban and an assault rifle ban. And, as a result of that, there's been no shooting at a school in Britain since and there's only been two what you could even remotely call mass shootings since.

The same pattern is repeated in many other countries, Australia, where they've had mass shootings and brought in extensive gun bans, and, yet, these guys come on my show and they keep saying that, if you have more guns, there is less crime. And it's a complete fallacy.

America has the worst gun crime and crime, generally, of any of the 23 richest countries in the world, but by a multiple and it has to change.

You cannot have so many children, 20 young children, blown to pieces, with a military-style assault weapon and nothing happen.

BALDWIN: And I know you write, I read your op-ed, you wrote about your one-year-old daughter, that you would potentially send her to a school like Sandy Hook. This is so -- this personal for you, obviously.

But -- here's the "but." Let me ask you this. You know, you have this big show, this prime-time show on CNN. We're a network that doesn't take sides. Do you ever feel like you are blurring the line?

MORGAN: Well, no, because it's not a political issue to me and it wasn't in Britain after the mass shooting there. It was never a political debate.

It wasn't a question of being on the left or the right and I'm completely baffled why in America the NRA and other gun rights groups have allowed this debate and framed this debate in a political manner.

BALDWIN: But, Piers, you have these people on the show and I'm just asking the question and you call them stupid or an idiot or a liar and then a lot of critics are out there and they're giving you flak for doing that. How do you respond?

MORGAN: I think that you should have the flak. You know, you put your head over the parapet -- the reality of this is it's too serious to be quiet.

And the media generally in America after these gun massacres tends to just go very quiet, very quickly. There's a huge period of mourning for a few days and then that's it. Nothing happens. Nothing changes.

Well, if you can't change the gun laws in America, which has the worst gun murder rate of almost anywhere in the world and has maybe 12,000 people murdered with guns a year compared to 35 in Britain, if you can't change it after 20 young children are blown to piece, when do you change it?

And I'm aware it's a sensitive issue. I'm also aware that -- because I've been on the receiving end now that the gun rights people in America will try and frame it as being anti-Constitution, anti-the Second Amendment.

Well, let me clarify that. I'm not anti-the Constitution or the Second Amendment. The Constitution is a magnificent document and I totally respect an American's right to defend themselves in their home or defend their family.

There is no defense for a civilian in America owning a military-style assault rifle, which can kill up to 100 people in a minute. There's just no defense for it and there's no excuse for it.

BALDWIN: What about the White House? Because I know when you have these sort of petitions on whitehouse.gov, if you hit a certain, signature threshold -- I want to say it's something like 25,000, which clearly it's above that number -- the White House has to respond.

Have they responded? Do you expect them to?

MORGAN: Well, I don't thing they have to. They've indicated in the past if it goes over 25,000, they will. We're clearly at 104,000.

There's now a petition to keep me in America. There's also -- which is by Americans.

There's also a petition in Britain to also keep me in America and not allow me back home. I'm looking at the moment at sort of no-man's- land and being landed somewhere in the mid-Atlantic, but, again, it's just all trivial stuff, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It's getting in the bloodstream. You're talking about it and that's what you want to do. Is that right?

MORGAN: I think it's the crucial issue in America right now. You are having so many massacres -- Aurora, the worst single shooting in American history, 70 people hit. Then a shopping mall, mass outrage. Then you have 20 children killed in the worst school shooting in history.

All this happened in the last few months. Something has to give. Or do you just allow more and more innocent young children to be blown to pieces with these assault rifle weapons that belong purely in the military or, at a push, in certain elements of the police force?

To me, it is a crazy situation that I can go down to Walmart and I'm not allowed to buy six packets of Sudafed because it's bad for my health, but I can arm myself with an AR-15 assault rifle and then go and buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the Internet and commit an outrage.

It has got to change.

BALDWIN: I hear your passion and I can't wait to hear you sitting in front of the man who called for this petition and your deportation. It'll be some TV. Tonight, 9:00, "Piers Morgan Tonight."

Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

MORGAN: Thanks, Brooke. Take care.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Before I let you go, let me leave you with this. Prison inmates have known to go to great lengths to try their luck at a jail break. Look at the picture here.

How about this for an accomplice? This cat was caught sneaking into a prison in Brazil. Taped to the cat, what you see here.

I'm talking about saws, concrete drills, a headset, a memory card, a cell phone, a charger. I'm not done. Also, batteries. Yep, all on a cat.

Police say all 250 inmates are considered suspects.

And that's it for me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. Nice to be back here.

Let's go to Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Wolf?

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Brooke, thanks very much.