Return to Transcripts main page
What`s the Evidence in the Jodi Arias Trial?; More Police Tapes Released
Aired January 21, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a work trip in Vegas and fall hard, but when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, even converting to Mormonism to get her man.
But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times. Then, just hours after Arias stabs Travis to death in the shower, she has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, literally hopping on top of him while Travis`s body decomposes in the shower.
Testimony reveals 27-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day long, even photographing the sex with her beloved camera, but then just minutes after, she slashes his throat.
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias`s elaborate web of lies all caught on tape. We have the video. Now, as that Arizona jury seems to be siding with Arias, what`s the evidence?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me. I was not at Travis`s house. I was not. The truth is, I did not hurt Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Absolutely not. No, I had no part in it.
I didn`t kill Travis.
(INAUDIBLE) I did not take his life.
I did not hurt Travis. I wouldn`t do that to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had nothing to do with Travis Alexander`s death?
ARIAS: Nothing to do with it.
And I`m not worried about it because I didn`t do it.
I wouldn`t hurt Travis. He`s done so much for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you managing to stay so calm?
ARIAS: Through the knowledge of my own innocence.
I have to maintain my innocence! I can`t admit doing something that I haven`t done! There`s no reason I would ever want to hurt him.
I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias`s elaborate web of lies all caught on tape. We have the video. As that Arizona jury seems to be siding with Arias, what is the evidence?
We are taking your calls. A multitude of questions that have come straight from the jury. They have the opportunity to ask questions themselves. Not only do they ask a lot of questions to Detective Flores about Travis Alexander`s roommate, they also asked questions about the fingerprint expert, to the fingerprint expert, questioning that, as well. As you know, Arias`s palm print, bloody palm print, her blood and Travis`s blood, with her hair in it, found there in the home.
Also, questions to Arias`s former love interest, Ryan Burns, to the forensic chemist. What were the questions to Ryan Burns?
Joining me at the courthouse, Beth Karas. Beth, what did they want to know from Ryan Burns, her next boyfriend?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, I don`t recall the questions that they asked of Ryan Burns. you know, for most witnesses they didn`t have any questions. There may have been one or two questions...
GRACE: I`ve got them right here.
KARAS: They do ask him something about -- actually -- OK.
GRACE: I`ve got them. Matt, correct me if I`m wrong, they asked, Where did the information about Travis being a flirt come from? He said, I can`t remember.
With regard to exhibits -- this is the one that disturbs me, Matt -- Do you know where the date and timestamps on the text messages come from? Are they the send dates? Why did you send a good night at 8:13 AM? Do you know what date those instant message conversations occurred?
They`re questioning the timestamps, Matt Zarrell. And with that in mind, that`s just what Jodi Arias was doing. She was saying those sex photos were taken all on a different day than his murder.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes. In fact, Nancy, she went even a step further. At one point, when she was shown the photos, she says, Are you sure these are me because I wasn`t there.
GRACE: You know, it`s very disturbing. We`re taking your calls. Out to Linda in Texas. Linda, I understand that you have a theory that this murder is somehow connected to Jodi Arias`s involvement in witchcraft or wicca.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And I`m a Christian, but reading up on the people that practice witchcraft, they`ll target usually someone who is a weakest member of the flock. And sexuality is a great way of pulling them away from it. And I do believe that somebody in his inner circle is closely connected to it.
GRACE: Now, if you -- let me just go with this, Linda in Texas. Are you saying that you believe Travis Alexander`s murderer is related to witchcraft and wicca? Now, why do you believe someone else in his inner circle is involved when she`s the only one that we know that has ever partaken in wicca?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s basically a secret society. If someone`s going to pull in a member, it`s usually someone who has control of the woman. And a woman will use their sexuality to get to the man.
GRACE: But I still don`t understand why you`re saying -- even if everything you`re saying is true -- even if -- why do you say someone had to help her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I don`t believe she was strong enough to empower (SIC) and take control of him without her having defense wounds against her.
And reflect back to the Casey Anthony trial and all the media, where Casey`s mother was saying it`s half -- mistruths or half-truths. When she was in interrogation, I do believe that when she was talking about the man that was portraying (SIC) the killing or the act upon Travis Alexander, I do believe that she was not lying about that part. The woman that she talked about, she was talking about herself.
GRACE: Linda in Texas...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh?
GRACE: I completely disagree with you, but even if someone helped her kill Travis Alexander, she`s still guilty of murder one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
GRACE: Just because two people engage in a heinous crime does not mean only half of them are guilty of murder. I mean, even if your scenario is true, she`s still guilty of murder. Do you see that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. But if I were a juror, I would be looking at Jodi as possibly a victim pulled into this. And the reason I say that is she kept saying in interrogation she was in fear of someone hurting her family.
GRACE: Can I ask you, Linda, why you believe anything that Jodi Arias says?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution, I don`t think -- they`ve proved that she was in the room. She`s admitted she`s in the room. But I still have a reasonable doubt she acted alone.
GRACE: OK. Nobody -- that`s not even an issue in front of the jury. It doesn`t -- all it -- they want to know is did she take part in his murder. If she did, she`s guilty. And again, I`m asking you, Linda, as gently as possible, why would you believe anything Jodi Arias says?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I were sitting on the jury, I would be looking at -- OK, let`s just throw it out there that even if she`s a bald-faced liar, she`s got her fingerprint and everything out there, I still think a man played a role in this, and I think it`s somebody in the inner circle.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go over the evidence. Beth Karas, what is the state`s theory as to how she could murder him? She`s a couple -- a few inches shorter than him. She weighs less than him. What`s their theory?
KARAS: Their theory is that as she was taking photos with his consent, while he was showering, she got him to sit in the shower to take one last photo. And two minutes after that photo was taken, there he is, on his back with his neck slashed. And that`s an accidental photo that her camera took.
So the theory is she got him in a vulnerable position, started to stab him. He grabbed at the knife because he has defensive wounds of cuts on his hands. And then he stumbled around, hung his head over the sink, bleeding into the sink, spitting. That`s the spatter. He probably stumbled, and she`s stabbing him in the back nine, ten times.
As he`s stumbling down the hall, he falls at the entrance to his bedroom. She slashes his throat, three-and-a-half inches deep, severs the airway, turns his body around and starts to drag him back and stuffs him in the shower -- shoots him in the head, though, before putting him in the shower.
GRACE: You know, Beth, it`s very, very disturbing. You`ve been listening to all of the evidence, that the jurors have been asking questions, the questions we knew of last week. Now there are these questions we`re going over, with the fingerprint expert, with Ryan Burns, to the forensic chemist, even to Jodi Arias`s friend, questions suggesting they are siding with Arias. It sounds like tot mom all over again.
Let`s take a listen to Arias in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were at Travis`s house. You guys had a sexual encounter, which there`s pictures. And I know you know there`s pictures because I have them. I will show them to you, OK? So what I`m asking you is for you to be honest with me. I know you were there.
ARIAS: Are you sure those pictures aren`t from another time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Positive. Absolutely positive.
ARIAS: The last time I had any kind of kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have pictures of you in Travis`s bedroom with Travis, pictures of him. And it`s obvious you guys are having sex, taking photos of each other, and they`re dated and timestamped on the day he died.
ARIAS: Are you sure it`s me? I mean, because I was not there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s you. And you know it`s you. I know all the details of this case. The only thing I don`t know is why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: She had a knife, and I didn`t -- I don`t know. He was bleeding everywhere. It was, like, when she rushed me afterward, or she came back, I rushed her, she kind of came back at me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you...
ARIAS: Tried to stab her right about here, maybe. I don`t know. (INAUDIBLE) And there was a little bit of a struggle with her and I. I was so scared. I`m not a person who fights. I`m not a person who knows really about self-defense. I took some classes once, but it was, like, eight years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As reports suggest, the jury seems to be siding with Jodi Arias. A fresh look at her interrogation tapes -- and this as a diary emerges. Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about a diary?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, it`s very significant because the diary entries that we`ve obtained from Jodi Arias`s journal are just days after the murder, and the first one is just a couple days after the body was found.
And in the diary, she talks about what happened, that Travis is dead. What happened to Travis? Travis, what is this? She talks about how upset she is, how badly she wants to call Travis. But knowing he wouldn`t answer me was too much to bear. Knowing he wasn`t calling me anytime soon was just killing me. She broke down and cried. She couldn`t sleep.
And June 12, just a few days after the body was found, she says, It just feels like he hasn`t called me in too long. I hear him singing. I hear him laugh.
Now, keep in mind, this is after she stabs him 29 times and shoots him in the face.
GRACE: You know, it goes on. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," she writes -- this is in her own diary. She`s admitted she stabbed him 29 times. "Travis already told me he liked the name Iris for a girl, that and Hinckley Reagan (ph) or Megan. I`ll take Iris, thank you very much. He liked Ivan for a boy`s name. If I ever have a son, I`ll name him Alexander."
Dr. Bethany, please help me.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Nancy, she is such a stalker that she continues a relationship with him in fantasy after she`s killed him! I mean, the essential feature of stalking is that the perpetrator has the illusion of a relationship with somebody who is not attached back, gets stuck in feelings of rejection and then destroys the victim to punish him for the perceived rejection.
Well, she`s continuing to do that even with the diary writing. It`s as if they have this magical, illusory relationship that`s going to go on and on and on.
And then secondarily, it could be even that she is creating an alibi. And we know about stalking, that that kind of disorder, the only thing that fixes it is that the perpetrator gets reattached to a new victim, OK? So she`s attaching to the journal and then at some point -- if this -- there hadn`t been these intervening events of being arrested and incarcerated, she would found another guy, stopped writing the diary and attached to him.
GRACE: All right, usually, it is pay dirt when a prosecutor gets their mitts on the defendant`s diary.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Kirby Clements, Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, New York. Mickey Sherman, have you ever known anyone to fake their own diary? I mean, these -- if you could show those entries again, Drew -- these entries, she -- she -- we -- her lawyer told us she killed him.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But obviously, the jury doesn`t necessarily believe her lawyer or anything else. They`re coming to their own conclusion. They`re solving this crime themselves with the knowledge that they get from watching TV.
And you know, if she did do these diaries, you know, maybe she`s nuts. Did you ever think there might be a little bit of insanity involved here?
GRACE: Well, no, actually, I don`t, because of her elaborate scheme. But Kirby Clements, what I do think is she is crazy like a fox, in that she plants all this in her diary, knowing that if police ever came, they would read it.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, not -- you know, I agree that if she did this, that that is pretty -- that is pretty nefarious. I mean, I got to tell you, Nancy, this is a case that you -- it`s like, you know, shooting fish in a barrel.
But I do want to point out, as to what the jury is doing -- you know, the jury can disregard what the defendant says. They can disregard a confession. They can disregard the defense, and they can still acquit someone.
So the fact that the jury is doing what they`re doing right now suggests that they may be very well poised to do just that, reject the defense of self-defense and go with a concept that perhaps she was not involved in his murder at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: And a lot of people were dropping my name and I said I`m not worried about it because I didn`t do it, I said, but it`s very much just hurting my reputation and it`s casting me in a bad light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn`t be worrying about your reputation right now. I`d be worrying about the rest of your life. That means nothing, absolutely nothing.
ARIAS: Well, my reputation will affect the rest of my life, so I am worried about my reputation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining us tonight there at the courthouse. Beth Karas, she is being questioned by a homicide detective about the stabbing death of her lover, and she is worried about her reputation. Clearly, her worries are misplaced.
What is she acting like in front of the jury? I know you guys told me that she has her seat screwed down really low so she looks like she`s very small and petite compared to her lady defense lawyer. What else is she communicating in front of the jury?
KARAS: Which is something we saw Casey Anthony do, as well. She seemed to be sitting lower than her lawyers.
Well, she sits as far away from the jury as possible. After two days -- and there are nine altogether so far -- she started wearing eyeglasses. On the ninth day, she had new eyeglasses. But that kind of hides her face because she looked actually very pretty and seductive those first few days. Not that glasses don`t make her still pretty. She`s an attractive woman.
Her blouses are not the kinds of tops that we`ve seen in photographs, you know, the sexy tops, so she looks more like, you know, a school marm. And she`s very quiet. She keeps her head down. She cries a lot -- not every day, but she does cry a lot. So she`s just very quiet sitting over there, not being -- you know, trying not to be noticed, I suppose.
GRACE: Well, it`s a real bombshell that the jury seemingly is siding with Jodi Arias. Susan Constantine, body language expert joining me out of Orlando. You have pored over every single movement in court. What do you observe?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, what I observe with Jodi is in the courtroom that, you know, she creates these barriers. And we talked about this, that she has this shield of protection around her. That includes her hair, her eyeglasses, her hand movements over her face. And then, also, too, is that the way she holds her body is kind of in a fetal position a lot of times. So it`s self-protection.
So this is what I`m seeing in Jodi Arias`s body language is that she kind of shields herself and protects herself from things that she doesn`t like to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with the death of Travis?
ARIAS: Not -- I don`t think I had anything directly to do with it, but I feel responsible somewhat for it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what can you tell me about his death?
ARIAS: You know a lot more about it than I do. When I say I feel responsible, it`s because I was -- I wasn`t planning to go there at all, and he really wanted me to go.
The reason I feel is because if it weren`t for Ryan, I would have bolted and I would have just scrapped all my plans and spent all of my days there. But I didn`t. I stood strong, and he got mad and he got sad and he guilted me. He didn`t get really mad, he just kind of guilted me. And finally, I was, like, Whatever. Fine. And we hung up.
I feel that if I would have gone there, that I could have -- that I could have done something because...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you were there, Jodi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to our special guest joining us tonight, Tamara Mauro, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. Tamara, thank you for being with us.
TAMARA MAURO, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thank you.
GRACE: Tell me what you know of Travis Alexander. He has now been accused of being a woman beater, beating Jodi Arias. That`s her self-defense claim. He`s also been dragged through the mud, his entire reputation that he was a sexual deviant. What was your knowledge of Travis?
MAURO: I like to think that I knew him pretty well. We were friends for a couple years before he passed away. And he was nothing like any of those things. He liked to joke and play around. And I never saw him lash out at anybody. I can`t even remember a single time that he yelled at anybody, let alone attacked them physically and, you know, being fun and being a flirt is a far cry from being a sexual deviant. And I never would have imagined he could be anything like that. It just is absurd to me.
GRACE: Now you did odd jobs for him. What type of things did you do for him? And how did you two meet to start with?
MAURO: I met him through some of his roommates and just always hanging out over at his house and everything. And when I was in college, and just kind of struggling to make ends meet, he offered to pay me to just do random things that he could have done for himself. Taking care of his dog. Going to pick up the dry cleaning. You know, picking up around his house and just --
GRACE: To help you out?
MAURO: You know, things that freed him up to -- yes, to help me out.
GRACE: In fact, you helped him do the faux painting in the master bathroom?
MAURO: Yes, I did. I remember he was so proud of that. It was a leather faux finish. And he was so excite d about it.
GRACE: And I assume that now you`ve seen the photos of that very bathroom where his dead body was found?
MAURO: Yes. Yes. It`s kind of tough.
GRACE: You have been in the home quite often doing work for Travis Alexander, and you say it`s very, very easy to be in his home yet not run into any of his roommates. Please explain that.
MAURO: Well, there were a couple of times where Travis was going out of town, and he would ask me to stay over and watch after his dog because, I mean, who wants to trust a bunch of college guys to -- with your prized possession. And, I mean, there were times that I would be there, I`d just stay in the master and nobody would even know I was there. It just was separated from the rest of the house. And -- you know, everybody just can kept to themselves.
GRACE: You took care of his dog, correct?
MAURO: Yes, Napoleon.
GRACE: And was he good to the dog? Did he take care of him? Did he love him?
MAURO: He absolutely adored that dog. And the dog was -- the dog liked to poop a lot in the house, not to be crude or anything, but all the time. He couldn`t figure out how to train that poor thing to actually go outside. So I`d be cleaning up after him and everything and no matter how angry even I would get, just like, oh, my gosh, I have to clean up after you again, he wouldn`t even lift a finger against Napoleon. He absolutely adored him.
GRACE: So what do you make of Arias` claims that she killed Travis Alexander in self-defense including nine stab wounds to the back?
MAURO: I can`t imagine anything like that ever happening. I mean, I think even in just what I understand, I mean, how can you attack somebody on their back if they`re attacking you, first of all. But it just makes absolutely no sense that the person I knew was completely different than this person that only she knew, and only she knew about him like that, and nobody else had ever seen that side of him. Nobody had ever encountered anything. It just does not make sense.
GRACE: No, it doesn`t.
With me is Tamara Mauro, a friend of Travis`. Also taking your calls.
Out to the lines, Lynn in Texas. Hi, dear. What`s your question? Oh, Lynn in Tennessee, excuse me.
LYNN, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
LYNN: Well, I have a couple of questions and a comment. Is that OK?
GRACE: OK. Sure.
LYNN: OK. My comment is, I think that she used sex for him to change his mind about taking that girl, and I don`t believe that he took these pictures. I believe she had that camera set on a timer texting pictures because his pictures look like he didn`t want his picture taken. You know, he kind of has his hand up.
And the other one is, she would drive that far to a guy`s house that she says abused her? She went over there, used sex to get him to take her to Cancun or either to stop him from taking the other girl to Cancun.
And the question is, do they have Casey Anthony`s jury up there?
GRACE: That`s my fear, Lynn in Tennessee, because based on the questions that have been coming out of that jury, questions they get to ask the witnesses, they seem to be siding with Jodi Arias and this is even after her defense attorney has told them she did the deed. But that it was in self-defense. Now they`re asking -- what, Lynn?
LYNN: I`m sorry. I`ve got one more thing to say.
LYNN: I don`t think that -- I don`t think you showed on your show but here in court they pulled his phone records up on the screen.
LYNN: And her eyeballs got so big watching his phone records, seeing who was calling him, who he was calling. She is obsessed, Nancy. That woman is obsessed even over a dead man.
GRACE: Lynn, Lynn, you should be an investigator.
Out to you, Bonnie Druker. You have been in the courtroom. You were there when the phone records came in. Was she surprised at who he was calling? She is still obsessed with him.
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Oh, she`s totally obsessed with him, still, even with that diary. And when you look at those phone records, she kind of knew who was calling him because, remember, after his murder, she called his voicemail and there was a 16-minute call, and then investigators believe she was checking to see who was calling him. So she knew but, you know, all along she`s been doing things like, you know, kind of like this and moving her hair but, yes, in general she`s been shocked about certain things.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you at Travis` house on Wednesday?
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Absolutely not. I was nowhere near Mesa. I was nowhere near Phoenix. I wasn`t even close to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if I could show you proof you were there? Would that change your mind?
ARIAS: I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can be honest with me, Jodi.
ARIAS: I was not at Travis` house. I was not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Travis Alexander`s body stabbed 29 times, slashed from ear to ear.
Let`s see what the jail amenities are. He decomposed in a damp shower stall while she has a choice of menus behind bars. There`s lunch. Peanut butter, ginger snaps, Hoagie roll, orange, skim milk. Soy stew, pinto beans, broccoli, oranges, dinner roll, ginger snaps. Apparently they can check out books. They can work out. They have art. They have TV, phone, cable, recreation time, outdoor time.
Wow. OK. We are taking your calls. Did I go to Tonya in Texas?
Tonya, hi, dear, what`s your question?
TONYA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: First of all, I just want to let you know that I just adore your show and I watch you all the time.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much for calling in. What`s your question, dear?
TONYA: I`d like to say something about these things that were in the car. There`s a lot of speculation that it could have been blood. But I`m also kind of curious as to, could it have been the hair dye and if the authorities ever asked her why she colored her hair on this road trip and where did she color her hair?
GRACE: That`s a good question, Tonya.
Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. She did color her hair on the road trip. And you know what else, Alexis, dark hair color can look reddish when it is on material, like a car seat.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, SENIOR REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: You`re absolutely right. And she did this on the fly. She didn`t have -- there`s no records of her going to a hotel or anything like that. So it`s quite possible that she could have done it in a gas station bathroom and it could have gotten all over the car.
But I believe, you know, they don`t have blood tests from the carpet. I`m assuming that what they believed is that it is Travis` blood that was in the car.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Ann in Massachusetts. Hi, Ann, what`s your question?
ANN, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy. About the blood stains in the car. He testified, the rental agent, that the blood stains were on the passenger side and the backseat. He never said it was on the driver`s side. I`m wondering if she could have helped someone get away, if she had someone helping her and those were the blood stains?
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what about it? Is there any evidence that anyone else was in the home? If they were, what did they sit by during that marathon sex session? Were they there in the shower? Were they there in the bathroom?
I mean, I don`t know that that makes sense, but more and more people are starting to wonder if someone helped her. That doesn`t absolve her of a murder one conviction. But I`m wondering where this is coming from.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, I know that the cops investigated both roommates, determined both were not present around the time of the murder. And when Jodi Arias gave the second story about this man and this woman who came in and attacked them, the -- Detective Flores who had been working as a police officer for over 19 years called it the most farfetched story he has ever heard in his entire career.
GRACE: I want to go to Marc Harrold, former beat cop, author of "Observations of White Noise."
Marc, are you always stunned when jurors come up with a completely different theory about what happened? For instance, you`ve got Linda in Texas hypothesizing this was all a witchcraft, Wicca, murder.
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA PD, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": Yes. I`m --
GRACE: And that someone was helping her. And that she is somebody`s Wicca slave and that she is really afraid for her life and now you`ve got Tonya saying -- basically that someone else was involved because of some stains in the car.
HARROLD: Yes, I think Mickey is right. I think a lot of people are right. This is a CSI effect. What`s happening here, it`s great that jurors ask questions if they`re allowed in the jurisdiction that they are. It`s great that they ask questions. But that`s not really what`s going on here. They`re not asking questions about the evidence that`s being presented to them. They`re not asking questions about the -- what they`re actually hearing and asking questions to clarify it or so it makes sense to them.
What they`re doing is they`re asking all these questions about what`s not being presented to them because it`s not just that this jury seems to expect this crime to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. They seem to want to be able to actually exclude every other possibility, and I think Linda from Texas, who I -- you know, I respectfully disagree with. I think she said she had reasonable doubt because there was this some other possibility.
The jury, you know, it`s going to get to a point where during voir dire you`re going to really have to ask the jurors if they just know about this case but if they have all kinds of preconceived notions about the justice system in general.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Tonya in California. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
TONYA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I was so glad to hear that someone finally was paying attention to these jurors` questions. It`s very disturbing because they don`t pertain to what their job is. They`re acting like --
GRACE: Well, Tonya, I`m very concerned we`re going to have a repeat of tot mom.
GRACE: I mean, I`ve gone through some of the questions but there are a lot more questions.
I mean, Matt Zarrell, didn`t they ask the chemist questions, the finger print person questions, Ryan Burns, they even asked her new boyfriend about date and time stamps suggesting -- we know where this is going -- to the date and time stamps on the death photos. And of the sex photos.
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, the issue that they had with the time stamp was there was a text message from Ryan Burns, between Ryan Burns and Jodi Arias that was sent at about 8:13 a.m. in the morning that said good night, and the jurors were confused about why there would be a message sent at 8:13 in the morning that said good night but the witness did not know, did not have an explanation for why the time stamp said that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: He got my registration out from my wallet and he said --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say?
ARIAS: He said you must be that bitch from California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one, you absolutely cannot, cannot explain that away. You either have blood on your hands, and you touched the wall or there was blood on the wall when you touched.
ARIAS: Could my palm print have already been there, and I touched it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, Jodi. This is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.
ARIAS: Listen, the truth is, I did not hurt Travis. OK, so worst case --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, you can continue to do this, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Ann in Nebraska. Hi, Ann, what`s your question?
ANN, CALLER FROM NEBRASKA: Yes, thank you, Nancy, for taking my call. I wish to know what age was Travis on the day he was murdered, also what age was Jodi on that day? Thank you.
GRACE: Yes, dear, as I recall, and out to you, Matt Zarrell, I believe she was 27 and he was 30?
ZARRELL: Yes, correct, Nancy.
GRACE: I want to go to Tamara Mauro, friend of Travis Alexander`s.
Your mom works in the system. What do you make of her, Jodi Arias, having so many amenities?
MAURO: Hey, I think it`s somewhat unfair. It`s just frustrating, especially seeing her with all of her television interviews and everything that she`s been doing the last four years, you know, having her hair done and her makeup done, being able to, you know -- she doesn`t have freedoms and she can`t just go wherever she wants, but she is taken care of.
She has basically everything given to her that she needs. And after knowing what she did, it just doesn`t seem right that she can have these kind of -- that kind of treatment.
GRACE: You know, she`s right.
Alexis Tereszcuk, radaronline.com. Take a look at Arias primping for the cameras. She`s given interviews to "48 Hours," "Inside Edition," you name it.
TERESZCUK: You`re exactly right. She is not being treated like every other criminal who is behind bars. She`s doing whatever she wants, running around free, while the man that she killed -- and she has admitted. Her defense has even admit it. She did kill Travis Alexander. He can`t do anything anymore. He can`t talk to his family, he can`t play with that dog that he loves, he can do nothing.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Timothy Serwinowski, 21, North Tonawanda, New York. Purple Heart, Honorable Service award. Parents Sally and Phillip, step parents Jim and Laurie. Four brothers, three sisters.
Timothy Serwinowski, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened when the last picture was taken?
ARIAS: He was kneeling down in the shower. I don`t remember if this is his shower and the sink is over here. I was like right here taking pictures. I know that I`m innocent, God knows I`m innocent, Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words on that one, no jury will convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was Jodi Arias on "Inside Edition," one of the many, many interviews she`s given from behind bars.
You know, it`s interesting, Susan Constantine, as we`re showing these interrogation videos where she`s caught on tape in her many, many stories, she`s basically lying down op the table.
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes.
GRACE: On many occasions, just lying there, just completely lying down. What does that say?
CONSTANTINE: Well, that said that`s submission and it`s also confession, OK? When you feel like you`ve completely lost it, everybody is on to you, she`s in that confession mode. That`s where they kind of come into that shell.
And I liken it to like a turtle. You know, she`s always hiding behind that shell. She just kind of pokes her head out just to see that they have light, and when she doesn`t feel safe, she pokes her head right back in and she goes into that protective shell. That`s what she does consistently throughout the investigation.
GRACE: Bonnie Druker --
CONSTANTINE: And here`s the other one.
GRACE: Go ahead.
CONSTANTINE: And here`s the other one. When the investigator said, well, you know, Jodi, you know, there is blood on your hands. Right then she shifted, leaned back and put her hands right underneath the table. When you put your hands under the table it`s when you`re hiding something.
GRACE: You know, Bonnie Drucker, very, very disturbing that the jury seems to be siding with Jodi Arias. We`ve got another tot mom jury on our hands. Did the prosecution show any emotion when these questions were being read out loud, or the defense?
DRUKER: No, no one is showing any emotion, but I wonder, are we all sitting in the same courtroom sometimes? I mean, it`s like right there on videotape, all these lies, and I`m amazed by a lot of these questions just as you are.
GRACE: Everyone, tonight, switching gears, we are wishing a very happy birthday to California friend, PR guru, Josh Severa.
"DR. DREW" up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. sharp. And until then, good night, friend.