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Defense Witness List for Arias Murder Trial

Aired January 24, 2013 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip in Vegas and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism.

But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander`s found slumped over dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times. And just hours after she admittedly stabs him to death, she`s literally hopping on top of a brand-new boyfriend while Travis`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.

Twenty-seven-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day, even photographing the sex, but then just minutes after the sex, slashes his throat ear to ear.

Bombshell tonight. We obtain the defense witness list in order to crack their strategy. Star witness, Jodi Arias. This as the trial judge contemplates throwing out Arias`s murder charges.


JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me.

I witnessed Travis being attacked by two individuals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you in Travis`s house on Wednesday?

ARIAS: Absolutely not. I was nowhere near Mesa.

White Americans. They`re not mafia or anything.

I was not at Travis`s house. I was not.

I think I got knocked out (INAUDIBLE)

Are you sure it`s me? You know, because I was not there.

I`m not proud that I just left my friend there to be slaughtered at the hands of two other people.

There`s no one there?


ARIAS: I wasn`t even close to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Latent print 169-A was individualized as the left palm of Jodi Ann Arias.

ARIAS: The explanation for that will come out soon.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. We obtain the defense witness list in order to crack their strategy. Star witness, Jodi Arias herself. This as the trial judge is contemplating throwing out the Arias murder charges, throwing them out of court.

We are taking your calls. Joining me right now is a special guest, the renowned sheriff Joe Arpaio. He is the Maricopa County sheriff. He runs the jail Arias is housed in. Sheriff, thank you for being with us.

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY AZ (via telephone): Nice talking to you. I met you last year here in Phoenix.

GRACE: That`s right, at the fund-raiser for Child Help.

ARPAIO: Child Help.

GRACE: We were there.

ARPAIO: So thank you for doing that.

GRACE: Well, Sheriff Joe, you and I have actually met on prior occasions dating back over the years. Many people admire your tough stance on how to run a jail.

Specifically, I want to find out whatever we can been Jodi Arias. And Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been very open. He allows news teams, reporters behind bars at his jails. He has some very unique theories on what works best behind bars. He`s a pretty open book.

Sheriff Joe, I want to hear about Jodi Arias`s day every day. What is her day like? I`ve got a few amenities here in your jail, but she`s given quite a few prison interviews, and I want to thank you for that, for the ones that have actually occurred at your jail because you know all of that is coming in at trial. Every time she speaks, it comes in at trial.

ARPAIO: Well, you know, at trial, she wears civilian clothes. When she gets back to jail, she`s wearing pink underwear and striped uniforms like everybody else. She doesn`t get any special treatment. She`s in the general population.

She`s done some good things in the jail. I have the only high school in the nation in the jail, plus GED programs. She got her GED program in the jail. She also won our inmate "Idol" contest. She won that while she`s been in our jails.

So she hasn`t had much discipline, and she`s behaving herself. And I`m sure she doesn`t like it because, you know, our meals are, like, 25, 30 cents. And we take everything away, no porno, no television, which I`ll probably let her see your station, but there`s only...

GRACE: Thank you, Sheriff Joe!

ARPAIO: ... the Weather Channel, and the -- you know, the Congress type of situation. But she`s been good. I can`t put her on the female chain gang, we have the only one in history in the world, because she hasn`t been convicted. But if she was convicted and doing the time in a jail, she would be on the chain gang.

But you know, I haven`t met her that I recall. She`s been in there four years, four years.

GRACE: Well, Joe, question. With me, Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He is taking your calls. We`ve got a lot of questions about what does she get to eat behind bars.

ARPAIO: OK. So you want to know what she eats?


ARPAIO: Well, she sure doesn`t get steak. I took away the breakfast and the lunch. We give her brunch, which is a bologna sandwich or peanut butter sandwich, and then at night...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! Wait! Whoa! Whoa! She`s getting ginger snaps?

ARPAIO: No, bologna sandwich.


GRACE: I`m seeing hoagie roll, peanut butter, ginger snaps, oranges, skim milk.

GRACE: No, peanut butter in lieu of the bologna sandwich. We give her an orange and maybe some donated cookies.

GRACE: I`m OK with the orange.

ARPAIO: Pardon?

GRACE: Orange yes, cookies no.

ARPAIO: Well, the cookies, they`re crackers, if they`re donated, we may give her some of the cookies. But you know, she`s treated like everybody else. We`ve got 8,000 to 10,000 people a day in our jails. She hasn`t been a problem, which has no bearing on her court trial.

GRACE: Is Jodi Arias considered a celebrity there behind bars, amongst the other inmates anyway?

ARPAIO: You know, that`s a good question. You know how inmates are when you`ve got a high-profile person in there. Of course, they`re going to back up the person. You know, the inmates love company. And yes, I guess she is because of all the media attention that she`s getting.

GRACE: Well, I`m glad to hear that she is behaving behind bars. I hope you have all-female wardens because she`s got some kind of a spell she -- the other day, a Mormon father of I think three, after two hours with Jodi Arias, wanted to leave his wife and children for her. So I hope they`re all female wardens that deal with Jodi Arias.

Everyone, with me and taking your calls, Sheriff Joe Arpaio. I`m going to go out right now to Jean Casarez. Jean, we have managed to get ahold of the defense witness list, this as the trial judge is actually considering throwing out the charges. I see the star witness appears to be Jodi Arias herself, Jean Casarez.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": She`s on the witness list, that`s right. Also a domestic violence expert out of southern California that deals with and specializes in anger management, battered women, domestic violence.

GRACE: I want to get back to her, Jodi Arias on the witness list.

Christina Estes joining me from KTAR. What`s the likelihood she`s really going to testify?

CHRISTINA ESTES, KTAR RADIO (via telephone): Well, we won`t know until the defense really gets a feel for how their other witnesses do. But you can bet jurors want to hear from her because they`ve already heard a lot from her through the media interviews that have been played in court, the interrogation videos that have been played in court.

So they`ve actually heard her lie. So you can bet that they want to hear her on the stand to gauge in person whether she`s credible.

GRACE: With me now, Matt Zarrell. Matt, I want to go through the witness list. But I`m hearing in my ear that you have a little more information about the jail amenities there at Estrella jail?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. She gets about 16 hours a day in what is called a common area, which is where they can watch TV, including ESPN and...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait! Am I hearing cable TV?


GRACE: She gets cable TV every day?

ZARRELL: Yes, they have -- in the day room, they have access to phones and TV, which has cable channels including ESPN.

GRACE: Go ahead.

ZARRELL: They also have an hour of outside recreation at least four times a week. They can sign up for religious services and other programs, which Arias has done, including a GED. She`s also learned sign language and Spanish while in jail. They also can access a library and request books.

GRACE: It`s my understanding they can have recreation four times a week, cable TV, phone, 16 hours a week of basically recreation in addition to that. She has one roommate. Let`s see inside the cell. Let`s take a look at the cell. And from what we have learned, she is being treated as a celebrity there inside the jail, particularly by the other cellmate. In fact, when reporters come in, they all hold up signs stating "Free Arias." There`s no telling what story she`s told these people.

But let me get this straight. Matt Zarrell, she`s only got one person in the room with her? It looks like a dormitory room.

ZARRELL: Yes, inside the room there are a three-person bunk bed. Arias sleeps in the middle bunk. The roommate sleeps on the bottom bunk. It is a very small room. Also, on the table, there were some lotions and creams that we may believe to be Arias`s or the cellmate`s and a very small toilet and sink combo, and that is it.

GRACE: I`m understanding that one of the witnesses on the witness list is her roommate, is that correct? Out to you, Jean Casarez. What do we know about the roommate?

CASAREZ: Well, you`re looking at her right there. Her name is Kimberly Ross. And she has been charged, waiting trial, kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary of the first degree, violent felonies, Nancy. That`s her cellmate.

GRACE: We`re taking a look at one of the star witnesses on the defense list, Kimberly Ross. Now, there`s a resume, felony kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary in the first degree. OK, that can`t be good, Jean.

CASAREZ: No, but she`s an older woman. That`s interesting. And she is on the witness list, Nancy, for the defense.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you met her, what was her hair color?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Jodi Arias go from blond to brunette almost in an instant just before killing ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander? Nancy Grace asked a professional hair stylist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if someone wanted to dye their hair in the car, they actually could because some formulas don`t require you to wet your hair prior to applying the color formula. So you could apply it to the hair, you know, at the point in time that you want to rinse it out, then, you know, find a bathroom or head back home.


GRACE: Just part of the elaborate scheme of Jodi Arias in changing her looks, her identity, the vehicle she was driving. As we told you in the last 48 hours, Arias busted trying to escape just before cops put on the handcuffs. And now we find out that during her road trip, she changes her identity, probably ducking into a roadside stop to dye her hair. The plot gets thicker and thicker.

And in the last hours, we obtain the defense witness list, thereby cracking the strategy that they plan to use to set Jodi Arias free. All of this as the judge considers a motion to throw out murder charges, that`s right, let Arias walk free.

Let`s see the potential defense witness list. There you see Arias herself, a psychologist, Richard Samuels (ph), Lonnie Dworkin (ph), a forensic computer expert, polygraph examiner Urbanski (ph) and domestic violence expert Alyce Laviolette.

Now, let`s talk about Laviolette. What do we know? Out to you, Jean Casarez.

CASAREZ: She`s from Long Beach, California. She practices in the southern California area. She has launched many innovative programs on alternatives to violence. She specializes in treating men who have been violent with their intimate partners. She also counsels battered women, domestic violence, specialty, anger management.

GRACE: Let`s take a listen to Laviolette.


ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: At any time that we`re creating fear in cultures -- and I look at that in our own culture -- that when we create fear and divisiveness, we alienate people from each other and we diminish our strength.


GRACE: We are giving you a little sample of what you`re going to hear on the stand from Alyce Laviolette. She has written several books. She gives speeches all over. And most importantly, she has testified in court.

Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Deal Breakers." We see where this is all headed, Dr. Bethany Marshall.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I have to say, if Jodi Arias was so fearful as this domestic violence expert is going to suggest, why would she have gotten in a car, driven across state lines like a moth to the flame to spend 15 hours having sex with her boyfriend? She won`t have. She would have run the opposite direction.

So what this expert is going to try to make a case for was that this violent attack was somehow self-defense because Jodi Arias suffered from battered wives` syndrome. The opposite could not be more true. Battered wives are fearful, shut down, timid, cut off from society, asexual. And that was not this perp.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Jason Oshins, defense attorney, New York. Also with me, Greg McKeithen, defense attorney, Atlanta.

Jason Oshins, let`s take a look at the defense witness list.


GRACE: Now, this tells us -- this is a roadmap as to where they`re headed, what they`re going to try to tell this jury. First of all, if she takes the stand -- and I`m talking about Jodi Arias -- I would predict she strategically should take the stand last. So she`ll have the benefit of all the other defense witnesses and their testimony, and she can kind of respond to that.

Although in order to get a battered women`s syndrome expert on, you got to lay the foundation first that there has been battering. Does that mean, in your opinion, that Arias has got to take the stand first?

OSHINS: No, I think you`re right. She does take it at the end and has the greatest impact. I think they`ve got to lay their theory for what their theory for this self-defense was. I mean, listen, Nancy, you`ve got to deal with the facts as they were. Certainly, she put herself in a box by lying initially. And I am sure the jury is going to want to hear what she has to say relative to that explanation.

GRACE: Well, of course, they are. I don`t know if that`s a compelling reason to ever put your client on the stand.

OSHINS: Well, I think in this case, they have to. I really do.

GRACE: Well, I think maybe that`s the best way for the jury to hear about alleged self-defense, which I don`t believe. But if they put her up, then she`s going to face cross-exam, Greg McKeithen.

GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That is correct, Nancy. But keep in mind she has a clean record. There`s very minimal damage that can be done, other than explaining away any prior inconsistent statement. And I think a good defense attorney can put that prior statement in perspective and explain her state of mind at the time of the commission of this crime and support self-defense.

GRACE: And what, may I ask, Greg McKeithen, do you see that supports self-defense in this case?

MCKEITHEN: Well, first of all, consistent with what the expert witnesses would say, her testimony would be prepped. And I would prepare her to make sure that what she says is, in fact, consistent with the theory that my expert witnesses are going to put in front of this jury.

GRACE: Well, that`s not what I asked you. I asked you, based on the evidence that we have heard, where do you see self-defense?

MCKEITHEN: Well, keep in mind, Nancy, we must look to the state of mind of the alleged perpetrator, the alleged accused in this case. And based on those facts and those circumstances, if she believes, based on the theory that we`re looking at battered women`s syndrome, that she had to act to defend herself, that is a question for the jury. It`s a jury question.

GRACE: OK, put him up, please! You just had the longest run-on sentence that was a complete non sequitur. Did you learn that at your law school, Greg?



GRACE: It`s called -- it doesn`t follow, non sequitur, non- sequential, doesn`t make sense. You said something about we got look at her state of mind to determine who the witness is going to be based on the batterer expert and it`s up to the jury. OK.

MCKEITHEN: It is a jury question.

GRACE: I`m going to let you think about that for just a few moments.

Out to Cheryl in Illinois. Hi, Cheryl. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, there. I basically just have a comment about Jodi Arias being able to watch cable TV. And I`d like to know if any of the doctors think she shows any signs of psychosis. And I`d also like to say that I hope she does go on the stand because she will definitely jumble her lies.


GRACE: We are live, taking your calls. In the last hours, we obtained the defense witness list in the Jodi Arias murder one trial, thereby cracking the strategy that they plan to introduce in front of the jury, the witnesses, the schematics of their defense. On that list, Jodi Arias set as the star witness for the defense. Oh, yes, it looks like she`s going to try and work her magic on those 11 men in the jury pool. OK, just don`t anybody hand her a knife or a fork, OK?

Next we learn that she has gotten an elite doctor. Her name is Alyce Laviolette, a domestic violence expert who has testified on behalf of perpetrators before.

And she has her roomie. Let`s see a picture of that roommate, Kimberly Ross. What are her charges that we know of? Out to you, Matt Zarrell. Go all the way back to `97. Amuse me.

ZARRELL: OK. Well, I`ll start with the current charges she`s currently booked on. She`s been booked for kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary of the first degree. She also...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Slow down, Matt!


GRACE: This is not a race.

ZARRELL: Kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary of the first degree is what she`s...

GRACE: Let me drink it in, Matt! Kidnapping, robbery, burglary, first degree.


GRACE: That`s why she`s in this time.

ZARRELL: This time, correct. It started back in 1997. She had a dangerous drug charge.

GRACE: You`re leaving out 2002 and 2003.

ZARRELL: Oh, I was working my way up to it, Nancy.


ZARRELL: In 1997, she`s got the dangerous drugs, possession of equipment for manufacturing.

GRACE: What a nice girl!

ZARRELL: Dangerous drug transport and sale, use of electronic communication in a drug transaction. Then in 2002, she`s got theft means of transportation...

GRACE: Stolen car.

ZARRELL: ... `03 trafficking stolen property, theft of means of transportation, misconduct involving weapons.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?

ARIAS: Absolutely not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias spun a web of three lies about her whereabouts the night her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander was murdered. Jodi Arias, seen here, first told the Mesa Police Department she was not in Arizona when Travis Alexander took his last breath at his five-bedroom home in a quiet suburb of Phoenix.

JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I was no where near Mesa. I was no where near Phoenix.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jodi Arias said the last time she saw Travis Alexander was in April, two months prior to the killing.

ARIAS: The last time I had any kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In a shocking twist, Jodi Arias changed her story and faced the cameras.

ARIAS: I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jodi Arias told police that intruders actually broke into this house, a woman and a man, and they were masked and they are the ones who attacked Travis Alexander. She said that the intruders let her go free but she never called police and she never called 911. She said the reason for this is she was scared the intruders would hurt her family.

ARIAS: They know where I live and they know where my family lives.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She told television shows "48 Hours" and "Inside Edition" that she was, in fact, at Travis Alexander`s house the night he died.

ARIAS: They came into his home and attacked us both. It`s the scariest experience of my life. It just was so unreal.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Finally in Jodi Arias` third stab at the truth, Arias` defense team says yes, she did in fact kill Travis Alexander but in self-defense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi believed that Travis was going to kill her. Travis left Jodi no other option but to defend herself. Jodi had to make a choice. She would either live or she would die.


NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are taking your calls.

Back out to Cheryl in Illinois. Cheryl, you were making a comment and it was what?

CHERYL, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: My comments were, basically, I`d like to know if any of the doctors are saying if she is -- Jodi is showing any signs of psychosis and I hope that she does go on the stand because I don`t know how she couldn`t jumble her lies. Especially with the camera.

GRACE: Good question. Let`s go to Dr. Bethany Marshal, psychoanalyst.

What about it, Bethany?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, psychosis is when you blur the boundaries between reality and nonreality. You see things that aren`t there and hear things that aren`t there.

This girl`s reality testing is quite intact. I would not let her off the hook so easily. In fact, she was so reality laden she knew that her boyfriend wanted to go to Cancun with another woman and it made her mad.

GRACE: That doesn`t sound crazy to me. That sounds like jealousy and anger. And that`s not a defense under the law.

Everyone, for those of you just joining us, in the last hours, we obtain the Jodi Arias defense witness list. And thereby we can crack their trial strategy. They plan to bring on a renowned domestic violence expert. Renowned in certain circles, that is. She has testified on behalf of many people, Alyce LaViolette. We expect her to testify that Jodi Arias was a battered woman.

And I would like to hear her explain why, if Jodi Arias was a battered woman, on one occasion traveled 300 miles to pursue the batterer, on other occasion, driving over 1,000 miles to pursue him, engaging in repeated phone sex, obviously, the sex photos? She is very pleased with herself in the photos. She`s not being forced into any of this.

I want to go out to special friend of Travis Alexander, Shannon Petersen, joining us from Marietta, California.

Shannon, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Shannon, when you hear the claim of self-defense, that she was a battered woman, that`s who we are learning from the witness list tonight, that they`re bringing on an expert in battered is women to defend Jodi Arias, that means their claim is to drag Travis Alexander through the mud and portray him basically as a wife beater.

PETERSEN: Yes, that`s pretty infuriating for anybody who knew Travis. You know, anybody who knew him at all. It`s unbelievable.

GRACE: Why do you say that?

PETERSEN: Because he was just this amazing individual who honestly, I don`t think would hurt a fly. He was just a bright light in the room, any room he was in, he was an amazing guy. I don`t believe he would hurt anybody.

GRACE: Did Travis ever talk about Jodi Arias?

PETERSEN: Yes, he mentioned her on a couple of occasions, just the -- just the e-mail hacking and you know, just I think that`s pretty much all he really mentioned to me.

GRACE: What would he say? What did he make of that?

PETERSEN: He was upset about it, but it was just kind of crazy. He would -- she hacked some e-mails between he and I, and I was married and moved on with my life and so they weren`t inappropriate e-mails by any means. We were just two friends that kept in touch after he moved, and, you know, she was very jealous, very jealous of these e-mails that he would -- you know, he and I sent back and forth occasionally.

GRACE: So she was jealous because there was an occasional e-mail between you and Travis Alexander? You know what? You better thank your lucky stars that you never met up with Jodi Arias because, I mean, she has apparently followed him on dates. She has e-mailed and contacted women that he would have casual dates with.

What was her complaint about him e-mailing you?

PETERSEN: I think she was just upset that he would e-mail any other woman besides her because like I said, I was married. I had kids. They were not inappropriate e-mails. Nothing I would not show my husband. And she was just I think upset that he was corresponding with me. Now, he and I were friends back when I was single. So maybe that`s why maybe she thought, you know, he still held a candle or something, I don`t know. But she was -- she was upset about it.

GRACE: You know, Shannon Petersen, I`d like the truth from somebody that doesn`t have an ax to grind or doesn`t have a dog in the fight.

Tell me who was Travis Alexander? Who was he?

PETERSEN: You know, the only word -- I mean I`ve heard him described in so many ways. He was joyous. He was always happy and uplifting, and I think because of the background and the way he was raised he was always trying to help people and lift everybody up around him.

And I know that sounds corny but that`s really who he was. He made people better. And -- I mean, I know he made me better. He helped me through a really trying time in my life and he was there for me and he was amazing. He didn`t want anything in return from anybody either.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?

CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF DAUGHTER`S MURDER: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales.

ARIAS: I just wanted to offer any assistance that I would with some really good friends of Travis`.

ANTHONY: I still have that feeling. That presence. I know that she`s alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.

ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For years, she pretended she had a job and pretended she had a nanny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi did not always tell the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very confident just by having talked to you this short period of time that you know where she is.

ANTHONY: I don`t.


ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is.


ANTHONY: If I knew in any sense where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.

ARIAS: I ran. And he stopped me.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: We need to have something to go on.

ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t have anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.

ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.


GRACE: Will history repeat? That is the question as tonight we obtain the defense witness list to see where the Arias defense strategy is headed.

We are taking your calls. We learn at the same time there are reams of evidence this jury did not see that the state chose not to present this as the trial judge considers throwing out charges on Jodi Arias.

To you, Matt Zarrell. There was quite a mountain of evidence that was not produced by the prosecution. What was it and why?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK, I`ll take -- I`ll take you through the list. You`ve got Arias` diary entries. The e- mail that we talked about that was sent to Travis` girlfriend who authorities believe Arias sent it where Arias calls the girlfriend a shameful whore. Just so you`re aware, that girlfriend, Lisa Andrews, is on the defense witness list.

Arias also purchased a .9 millimeter and hid it in the rental car. The jury didn`t hear about that. The jury didn`t hear about the knives found in a box of books at the home when police came to arrest Arias. Arias packing up to flee when cops went to arrest her. Arias asking the cops if she could put makeup on first before she was taken in for booking.

The 911 calls which we recently called have not been played for the jury. Arias is reportedly seen grinning at the memorial for Travis Alexander and these alleged letters that Arias claims is written by Travis that could not be verified by any handwriting expert.

We are still trying to determine why the state didn`t present some of this evidence, particularly the diary entries which is just days after the murder and she talks about how upset she is over Travis` death.

GRACE: The fake diary entries that many court watchers including myself believe she created in the hopes the police would seize that diary.

Woody Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert, they also have a polygrapher on the witness list. I`ve learned that that polygrapher is also a handwriting expert.

Woody, there`s no way the polygraph results if there are any could come in at trial unless stipulated before the trial starts by both sides.

WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Absolutely. Nancy. And that`s very interesting. Now, granted, when we look at someone like Arias and the fact that it if it was an ethical polygraph examiner and considering all the evidence that we already know is there, it`s inconceivable if -- how she would pass a polygraph test if in fact it was administered ethically and the correct questions were asked.

And again, with stipulation you know both sides agreeing to it, I cannot see how the prosecution would go agree to that knowing that this is the defense examiner who would be coming in extolling her virtues of how she told the truth which we know is absolutely a lie and could probably start it off with once upon a time and a land far away.

GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, all of this evidence that we know about, her fake diary entries where she`s like, what happened to Travis, I guess just hoping the police would seize her diaries. The e-mails to the girlfriend that surprisingly the defense has on their witness list, Lisa Andrews, a .9 millimeter gun and ammo, knives that she was set to escape just as they arrested her.

The 911 call not introduced. The fact that when she`s arrested on the murder of her long-time lover, instead of breaking down into hysterics, crying, praying, she instead says, be a lamb and wait for me to apply a little mascara. Be right back.

The fact that she was grinning and seemingly upbeat at his memorial and then, of course, the letters, the letters that her mother took to the "National Enquirer," letters allegedly written by Travis Alexander where he confesses or alludes to all sorts of misconduct. I guarantee you, he did not write those letters, Jean Casarez.

And I think an innovative technique the state could use is to get those letters and show she wrote the letters trying to frame a dead man.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": And we`ll see if the defense still wants to try to get them in with this handwriting expert.

Nancy, one thing you forgot, Lisa, the very close girlfriend of Travis Alexander, her tires were slashed when Travis` tires were slashed. She did not testify to that in the trial.

GRACE: Wow. Wow. You know, also, the judge mulling an attempt to have the charges on Arias thrown out of court. What`s the issue, Jean?

CASAREZ: The issue is the defense wants the murder charge thrown out, based on the theory of felony murder. That Jodi Arias killed Travis during the commission of a burglary, breaking into that house. Defense says she was invited into that house, and they`re saying because of that, it should go away. The premeditation though would stay.

GRACE: Now interesting, because if the felony murder charge goes away, then they`re left with just premeditation. Charges at this hour, the judge considering throwing them out.

We`re taking your calls. Out to I believe Tara in Tennessee. Hi, Tara. What`s your question, dear?

TARA, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, I would like to first tell Jennifer how sorry I am she lost her friend in such a tragic way and now sees him brutalized again. But my question is, if Travis was lunging out at Jodi and she -- because she dropped the camera, how is it that she managed to pick this camera up before she started defending herself to accidentally take the pictures? That -- I don`t understand.

GRACE: You know, another thing along that line, Tara in Tennessee, I`m going to throw this to Christina Estes with KTAR.

Christina, what? So she drops the camera. He lunges at her and she suddenly runs and gets a butcher knife and a gun all in about 30 seconds? How was that supposed to go down, Christina?

CHRISTINA ESTES, REPORTER, KTAR: That`s a great question and it`s very interesting because we heard testimonies when the prosecution presented witnesses and we saw the detective sort of showing how the photos were taken or mistakenly taken in that when the photos were -- the camera was upside down, someone could accidentally step on it and the picture would be taken and there was another area where we saw a photo that looked like a hallway, a bloody sort of hallway.

And so it looked like the camera had moved obviously from the shower area to somewhere else. So during that process when only Jodi and Travis know exactly what happened that camera somehow moved.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say she`s a model inmate. She`s very intelligent, she reads a lot. Can`t really go to classes because she`s a maximum security inmate. But very savvy about the law. She understands our grievous procedures quite well. She`s just very quiet. You don`t hear much from her.


GRACE: We take a look behind jail walls to find out how Arias is living. We also learn that her roommate there behind bars is on the defense witness list. Why?

Let`s take a look at Kimberly Ross. I introduced her earlier. She`s got a rap sheet about as long as the interstate. Hope the state`s ready with certified copies of those convictions. Not only that, a battered women`s defense expert, Alyce Nicolette -- excuse me, Alyce LaViolette. Richard Samuels, psychologist. Also a forensic computer expert.

Jean Casarez, what are they going to do with a computer expert? Possibly challenge those time of date stamps on the photos?

CASAREZ: That`s a good point. That`s a very good point. Also maybe foundational to talk about retrieving text messages from Travis Alexander, some that -- to allege that he was an abuser toward Arias.

GRACE: Well, you know, I would think, Jean, they would have to hand items like that over to the state if they bring on an expert.

CASAREZ: Well, that`s been a big issue. That`s -- yes, that`s been a big issue because all these text messages, the state didn`t get to the defense, so the defense is currently asking for a mistrial because of all of that. They finally got them, over 15,000, I think.

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia.

Dr. Manion, why do you believe this was not a case of self-defense?

DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, she had premeditated intentions. The fact that the gun was missing, the fact that she drove -- she rented a car and drove so far, and the fact that he was the victim of an overkill. He was basically killed three times. The bullet could have killed him, the gash to his throat could have killed him, the chest wound could have killed him. He was -- this is a victim of overkill.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant 1st Class Carlo Santos Silva, 32, Clarkesville, Tennessee. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal, parents Francisco and Monica, brother Dominic, widow Kristen, son Cameron.

Carlos Santos Silva, American hero.


ARIAS: I could have just driven there but I found out and saw what was going on. I just felt totally helpless.


GRACE: Out to Bonnie Druker, the defense set to kick off. We`ve got a preview now that we`ve obtained the defense witness list. I`m very curious about why they are bringing on one of Travis Alexander`s girlfriends.

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They`re bringing on Lisa Andrews. The prosecution was going to bring her on at first, but now the defense is bringing her on. She is going to talk about the slashed tires and these letters, Nancy.

GRACE: I don`t know how that could be helpful to the defense.

To Brittany in Tennessee, hi. What`s your question, dear?

BRITTANY, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi. I`m just curious about how the defense is going to prove self-defense in this situation. I mean, that`s an awfully brutal crime.

GRACE: You know, Jason Oshins, Greg McKeithen -- Jason, how would do it if you had to put up a self-defense in this case?

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think you`ve seen a bit of the roadmap and some of the defense witnesses. They`re going to lay out with their experts on the different ways that victims react to being abused. Not everyone follows the script that we would want to see. And just go ahead and do it that way and say this was the culmination of what was a violent, abusive relationship.

GRACE: What about it, Greg?

GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree. Basically, I would follow the lead of my expert witnesses and make sure that my client testifies accordingly to match the testimony of the expert witnesses.

GRACE: So you`re saying, then, she`ll take the stand.

Dr. Bethany Marshall, do you think the episode where she tried to beat her little brother to death with a baseball bat as a youth will come into evidence if she takes the stand?

MARSHALL: Oops, that doesn`t look so good, does it? Well, if it does, I mean, the jurors are going to see this blatant disregard and violations for the rights of others and aggression starting as an early age, which, as you know, Nancy, is a sign of an extreme personality disorder. Not going to make her look good.

GRACE: I mean, I get on to John David and Lucy if they even touch each with one finger. This was a baseball bat.

Everyone, ABC`s hidden camera hit "What Would You Do?" is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, as we head to Phoenix. Good-night, friend.