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Potential Witness in Jodi Arias Trial Promises to Reveal Secret

Aired January 28, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: A stunning revelation on the eve of the defense case in the Jodi Arias trial.

In a hearing, we were just told that one of the men on the defense witness list who knew both Travis and Jodi has information that could blow this case wide open.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, is there a bombshell just around the corner in the Jodi Arias case? Word that a defense witness has big information that could free Jodi or hurt her. What secrets could this acquaintance of Jodi and Travis reveal on the stand?

Plus, we`re going deep inside Jodi`s circle of friends. I`ll talk to a woman who worked closely with Jodi. What Jodi told her about Travis.

And Casey Anthony files for bankruptcy, claiming she`s $800,000 in the hole. She owes half a mil to her former attorney, Jose Baez, and almost 70 grand to the tax man. But could this really be about Casey wiping out all her financial obligations so she can keep future earnings? And could she still land a big money tell-all? We`re taking your calls.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there is a whole `nother reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Information that will hurt her or free her.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: I would never stab him. If I -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was made it as humane as possible.

WILLMOTT: Because in reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

ARIAS: And so I`m as good as done.

WILLMOTT: While he continued this facade of being a good and virginal Mormon man, he was dealing with his own sexual issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got information that will either hurt her or help her, and it just depends.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, does a surprise defense witness hold the secret key to Jodi Arias`s freedom?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.

The beautiful 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, cutting him all the way down to the spine, and that she shot him in the face. Just look at these autopsy photos. But Jodi claims it was all in self-defense.

Tonight, as the defense gets ready to begin their case tomorrow morning, we`ve been told that one man on the defense witness list plans to reveal a huge secret, one that could hurt Jodi, or it could set her free. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said something about "I have information that will hurt her or free her."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Free her? He`s talking about this man, Gus Searcy, who knew both victim Travis Alexander and defendant Jodi Arias. What is this mysterious piece of information that this man Gus reportedly has? And if he reveals it, this secret in front of the jury, will it blow this will case wide open?

Who is Gus Searcy? Look at him performing in a video from his Web site.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t that "Greensleeves"?

Plus, I`ll talk to a woman who knew and worked with Jodi before Travis` death. Were there warning signs? What did Jodi tell her about Travis?

And I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court when this bombshell was dropped. Tell us about it.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, SENIOR HLN PRODUCER: Jane, what was supposed to be a pretty boring day in court, it was the attorneys going over some motions -- remember, the jury wasn`t even in court today -- turned into fireworks when this character, this witness, possible witness, took the stand, whose name is Gus Searcy.

And he claimed that he has some piece of information that could either hurt Jodi`s case, or it could set her free and her complete case could be resolved.

So nobody knows what that piece of information is, but we do know that he is on the witness list for the defense. And he could possibly be called tomorrow, and we don`t know what he`s going to say. But according to him, he has some bombshell he`s going to drop that is going to change this case around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s analyze it. This new detail could turn the case on its head.

Now, again, listen to the cryptic way Gus`s colleague explained it. This is how we heard it in court. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I said, "Come on, Gus, she admitted that she killed him in cold blood. What are you talking about you got information where you can free -- free her?"

And he goes, "Well, not free her, but you know what I mean. I`ve got information that will either hurt her or help her, and it just depends."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the evidence has shown that Jodi and Travis had sex and took naked photos of each other shortly before Jodi killed him.

Given that the defense has made a point of claiming Travis sexually degraded Jodi, given that their strategy is to weave self-defense into the sexual story line, I think it`s fair to ask whether this secret could be of a sexual nature.

And now we`re hearing this acquaintance of both of them, the victim and the defendant, has information that could free her.

I want to go straight out to my very special guest, Dr. David Hughes.

Doctor, thank you so much for joining us and shedding light on Jodi`s relationship with this Gus Searcy. He is on the defense witness list. I know you introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander. You know something about this Gus character. What can you tell us about the last time that Jodi saw Gus, this gentleman, I should say, and what the secret might be about?

DR. DAVID HUGHES, INTRODUCED JODI TO TRAVIS: I don`t know too much about their last meeting. I just heard that they had actually met prior to Jodi going to meet Travis before she killed him.

But you know, I do know Gus, that he -- he`s just a very eccentric person. And so I don`t put a lot of stock in this huge secret that he has. I think he`s just Gus being Gus.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look. If what you`re saying is accurate, that means when she went on her killer road trip, as we call it, before she left her house in Yreka, goes all the way down to the Los Angeles area -- and Gus lives in the general Los Angeles area -- and then goes to Arizona, kills Travis, and then goes to Utah and has sex with another co-worker, you have to wonder, did they meet each other, as you believe, right before she goes and kills Travis Alexander? And then did -- did she say something to him? Did they do something?

I mean, did -- look, we know that Jodi has a way with men. Do you think that maybe this Gus was interested in her?

HUGHES: Absolutely. I don`t know much about that relationship, but I could come quick for presume that. And I know that Jodi, when she left Travis`s house and went to Salt Lake City, they did not have sex in Salt Lake City just for the record, but -- but they were...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They fooled around. You`re right. You`re absolutely right. They fooled around. They made out, but they did not have intercourse. You`re correct. Continue.

HUGHES: So anyways, but I -- so I just think that there was definitely something there. I don`t know how strong the relationship was with Gus Searcy and Jodi, but there was some kind of connection there. I think that he was interested in her. But I don`t know to what extent.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. OK. The prosecutor, Juan Martinez, definitely did not like the idea of this man coming into the case and perhaps blowing it wide open.

The prosecutor got heated, he started yelling at Gus Searcy. Check this out. Tempers boiled over.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he`s had contact with the prosecution in the last three years? Yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I only know what he`s told me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know what you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then let me tell you. I understand English pretty well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re having problems with it today, aren`t you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I know of. That`s a double negative. No, it`s not true. Yes, it is true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what`s your answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not true, yes, it is true. You asked a double negative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. And I`m asking you to answer it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s bring in our lawyers to debate. Did the prosecutor lose his temper? And if so, why?

Starting with Darren Kavinoky.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, you know, this local exchange was so very telling. And Jane, remember, just to put this in context, this was a motion that the defense was making, based on supposed prosecutorial misconduct.

So now here`s the prosecutor cross-examining Gus, and as our friend just told us, you know, that`s just Gus being Gus. There`s no question that Gus being Gus is not going to shrink in the face of that prosecutorial cross-examination.

The thing that was so off putting to me, though, is if that`s the way the prosecutor is going to behave, cross-examining defense witnesses in front of the jurors, he really runs a serious risk of alienating them. That sort of, yes, I get to ask the questions, it really -- it really is off-putting. It`s something that -- that makes a prosecutor look bad in the eyes of the jury. And let`s not forget: this is persuasive. He won`t win any popularity contests there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Rene Sandler, I guess my question is does the prosecutor feel threatened by this guy who is getting ready to possibly take the stand for the defense and drop a bombshell?

RENE SANDLER: Absolutely. The prosecutor`s demeanor today, he is scared about something. He`s scared about his case imploding and reasonable doubt or a lesser included second-degree murder. So this prosecutor is clearly unhappy and uncomfortable with this witness.

Why did this prosecutor not return the call of this witness? Why did he ignore this person? What did this prosecutor not want this witness to say?

I`m going to venture to say, Jane, that this witness has something very key to this defense. He knew both people here, the victim and the defendant and has something to add about the defense in this case and the sexual relationship, domestic violence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to take a left turn. Jon Lieberman -- hold on a second. Jon Lieberman, you`re going out of your skin.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I think this information is important in Mr. Searcy`s head, but I don`t think the prosecutors cared about what information he had and that`s why they didn`t call him back all those times. And I think the prosecutor was getting upset with the fact that he felt it was becoming the Mr. Searcy show. And he was asking some pretty basic questions, and he wasn`t getting any answers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Danny Savales (ph).

DANNY SAVALES (PH): Yes. Jon Lieberman has got it right there. I`ve got to tell you, this is not a case of the prosecutor being afraid. What happens, whether you`re prosecution or defense, sometimes you get so vested in the facts, so involved in the case that you can`t help but let the emotion out.

And of course, the prosecution, up until now, thinks they have an open and shut case. So the idea that someone may come in and potentially break open the case is frustrating. I don`t think it means the prosecutor is scared, but it is very easy and I have sympathy for this prosecutor, that when you know the facts so well and somebody is challenging that in a way that is just opposed to the way you`ve come to believe what the facts are, it`s easy to get emotional.

But it`s absolutely true that that prosecutor must caution against getting overemotional. You cannot come back with your witnesses, although it is true sometimes you have to ask a question that you do not know what the witness will say the answer to, and that`s probably what`s going on here. When a witness combats with the prosecutor, that can happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ten seconds. Ten seconds.

Here`s one other thick. Even if Jodi did meet with him and told him something, her credibility has been so impeached it may not matter what she said to him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what if they met and they did something? We`re just getting started with our look at the defense case. Stay right there. More on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it still possible that they think someone else could have been involved, that Jodi Arias could not have dragged Travis` body from one part of the bedroom back into the bathroom?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You keep saying you knew that it wasn`t healthy, and you knew it was contributing to something that wasn`t good. And yet you guys continued to do it.

ARIAS: Yes. And part of that -- part of my perspective now has to do with the fact that I`m going through a repentance process that I worked out with my bishop.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense case getting ready to start tomorrow. And could one witness basically implode the prosecution case? We don`t know, but we`re asking that question.

In fact let`s go out to the phone lines. Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought, Christine.

CALLER: Hey, Jane.


CALLER: I love you. I got to see Rico Friday. I`m so excited. And I want to say hi to your mom, too.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. Thank you.

CALLER: My question is they mentioned only one time about Jodi Arias looking on the Internet about Wicca, and included in Wicca is also Satanic- type stuff, things like that. And I`m wondering if she did this as a -- what do you call it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like a ritual sacrifice? A ritual sacrifice. Wow. Well, that`s heavy duty. Thank you, Christine, North Carolina.

Dr. David Hughes, again, you introduced Jodi Arias to Travis Alexander. We`re going to talk to a good friend of Jodi`s or a former co- worker who -- who felt that her behavior was off.

Her behavior was off according to some people. What did you see? Do you think that this was potentially something that might have been almost demonic, as this caller has suggested?

HUGHES: No. I don`t -- I know that she had it on her MySpace account that she practiced Wicca. And, you know, that was kind of the thing that she did. I don`t know how much she was involved in that. She never talked about that with us.

Because again, she started to look into the LDS faith pretty quickly after she had met Travis. Like literally within -- I think it was a week or so. So she never talked about that.

I don`t think that had anything to do with this. Now the way she killed him might have been, in her mind, a way to, you know, have certain meaning behind the stab, behind the gunshot, but I don`t think it had anything to do with the Wicca practice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But talking to Jon Lieberman here because I`m not a Wicca-wise person. In ten seconds, what`s Wicca?

LIEBERMAN: It`s basically like a pagan belief, like witchcraft is basically what it is. It`s a form of witchcraft.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she had that on her MySpace. Oh, OK. Wow.

The prosecutor also accused this man, Gus Searcy, who could take the stand for the defense, of trying to insert himself into the trial, claiming that, well, he`s trying to steal the limelight. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were upset with the prosecution because they weren`t calling you, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t your reputation, sir, that you want to make yourself the center of attention?

SEARCY: Where do you get that from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you a question, sir. You don`t get to ask me questions.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t it true you want to use this situation so that the limelight can be focused on you?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in the attorneys again. You know, we have a lot of high-profile cases that have ended this acquittal after a wild card witness had taken the stand.

You remember in the O.J. Simpson case, you had Kato Calen. In the Casey Anthony case, you had meter reader Roy Kronk. Both of those individuals acquitted. And now you have, seemingly out of nowhere, this Gus Searcy. Could this be the wild card defendant -- the wild card witness who changes everything? Rene Sandler, start with you.

SANDLER: Is he really out of nowhere or did the prosecution just ignore him and hope that he would go away or not surface in this trial? So each side knew of this man. This man is now injected into this case in a prosecutorial misconduct motion. He`s on the witness list.

Clearly he has information the defense feels is relevant to the central theme of their case, i.e. self-defense, domestic violence. That`s what this is about. Anything other than that, irrelevant.


HUGHES: Yes. We`ve got to take a step back and look at this case. I mean, reality is we already know Jodi Arias said she was there. Not in so many words, but that`s her defense. That`s what self-defense is: "I was there, I did it, but it`s excusable and here`s why."

So we have to ask the question what in the universe could Gus Searcy possibly testify to if he wasn`t there, unless Jodi Arias stopped by his house on the way to Travis` home with a couple of guys in her car with battle axes. That`s about the only thing that could change these facts.

Remember, the standard for prosecutorial misconduct is whether it`s harmless error. If they failed to call him or tried to change his testimony, ultimately they`re going to look at that harmless error standard. That`s what that is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if we look back at other trials that have gotten out of control for the prosecution -- O.J. Simpson, oh, he was talking about a cartel that was mad at his ex-wife for drugs, allegedly. We all know that`s a total nonsense story.

Casey Anthony, oh, she blames the Zanny the nanny. So then she blamed her own dad.

So there`s always a fall guy. If the defense wants to present a case, even if they`re arguing self-defense, they sometimes work in other fall guys or fall people.

We`re continuing this debate on the other side.


WILLMOTT: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there was a whole `nother reality for Jodi. A reality that Travis created. Because in reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.




ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this new defense witness, a man who was on the defense witness list who could testify as soon as tomorrow, Gus Searcy, he may drop a bombshell, according to another witness who said, "Oh, yes, he told me that he has information that could set her free."

Now, this Gus is an interesting man. He`s quite a performer. Check him out playing the keyboard from his Web site.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: On top of that, he was also a professional magician working at the famous Magic Castle in Hollywood. He also invented Butler in a Box. That`s an automated system that lets you ask your fictional butler to turn on the lights, open the drapes, turn on the coffee maker and even operate the pool cleaner. I wish I had one, although I don`t have a pool.

Apparently, he`s pretty good with money, too. At 16, he said his parents allowed him to play the stock market and he made money at age 21. He says he was the youngest owner in the world of a 7-Eleven franchise.

So I want to go to Jean Casarez, who`s been very patient with us, our correspondent from "In Session," who`s there in Phoenix, Arizona.

Jean, so many people have been talking about will Jodi take the stand, will Jodi take the stand? Maybe people are missing the point that there`s somebody else, maybe this Gus, who`s going to take the stand and change the dynamics of the case? What say you?

JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": I agree. I agree completely. Everybody is so sure that she`s going to take the stand. Well, if they can put on witnesses that maybe saw injuries, that saw Travis do something to Jodi, personally saw, because remember Gus knew both of them, then they may not put Jodi on the stand.

But watch out defense witnesses, because the prosecution, he`s going to try to obliterate every single defense witness on cross-examination.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Dr. David Hughes, again, a friend of Travis Alexander`s and you`ve joined us, Travis Alexander is not here to defend himself. And it`s clear that, however they do it, they`re going to try to put him on trial and essentially say that he was sexually abusive to Jodi. How does that impact you emotionally?

HUGHES: Well, it`s really sad for all of his friends and especially his family. But the thing that drives me crazy about this is that she -- they talk -- defense -- sorry, the defense talks about his secret life that he had with her, sexual life. It wasn`t secret. It was private. You know, we don`t know about your sexual life or you don`t know about my sexual life. We just don`t air that. So it wasn`t secret. It was just simply private.

And the fact that she`s claiming self-defense -- prove it. The evidence does not exist. We hung around each other all the time. We saw each other all the time. We were at different events all the time. His roommates never saw anything with any evidence whatsoever. Never heard anything. His best friends that he always hung out with, there were people in Travis` house all the time. And no one ever heard or saw any evidence to support that.

This is just a desperate plea of hers the last chance to say, "Hey, I did it in self-defense." But there`s no evidence to support that. And the only evidence that will come out is her lying cell mate that she was -- you know, look at the criminals. They all have in common. They lie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s why we`re so happy to have you here to speak, in essence, for Travis, who is not here to speak for himself.

And we`re going to continue with more on the other side on Jodi Arias, but also in a few minutes, we`re going to talk Casey Anthony. She`s broke; she`s filed for bankruptcy. And we`re going talk to somebody who talked to her just a couple -- like recently. Like, what, a day ago or two days ago. So that is absolutely stunning information we`ll bring in you just a minute.

At the top of the hour, Nancy Grace goes behind closed doors it at the jail are Jodi Arias is being held. This exclusive look top of the hour right here on HLN.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors believe he was still alive, and Arias followed him down the hall to the bedroom where she slashed his throat. Then dragged his body back to the bathroom accidentally taking pictures all along the way.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there was a whole other reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Information that will hurt her or free her.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I would never stab him. If -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because in reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

ARIAS: Well, so I`m as good as done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While he continued this facade of being a good and virginal Mormon man, he was inwardly dealing with his own sexual issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have information that will either hurt her or help her and it just depends.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy, what a day in court. This man, Gus Searcy, took the stand, this was out of the jury`s presence, but essentially in this hearing we learn that he may have as, a defense witness, information that could blow this case wide open. We will hear from another witness that said he talked to this man, that Gus told him "I have information that is going to change this case."

Listen to this. And then we`re going to analyze.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said something about I have information that will hurt her or free her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he`s had contact with the prosecution in the last three years?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I only know what he`s told me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know what you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then let me tell you. I understand English pretty well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re having problems with in today, aren`t you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I know of. That`s a double negative. No, it`s not true. Yes, it is true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your answer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not true, yes, it is true. You asked a double negative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. And I`m asking you to answer it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fireworks in court. And we`re also hearing there`s a possibility that when Jodi left Yreka for what we`re calling her killer road trip where she ultimately killed Travis. Before she went to Arizona where Travis lived, she rented a car in Redding and then went down to the Los Angeles area. And we`re hearing that she was in the vicinity of where this Searcy lived.

So did she visit Gus Searcy? And if so, did she tell him something to perhaps provide an alibi or to set up her case -- Jon Leiberman.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: It actually sounds like if she did indeed visit Gus Searcy, that this information in Gus` opinion could have been used by the prosecutors or could have been used by the defense. What I mean by that is he was first trying to reach out to the prosecution. "I have this information." Then when they weren`t calling him back, he went to the defense, now he`s a defense witness.

So if they did interact, Jodi and Gus, did she share with him something that could potentially have set up her self-defense claim like I`m going to see Travis and I`m going to break it off but I`ve been a little scared, or does she do the other -- is it the other extreme that she sort of sets up the premeditation somehow saying that I have a weapon with me or whatever. It`s going to be interesting to see.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But why would that be a witness that the defense wanted to bring if it didn`t help Jodi?

LEIBERMAN: I think this piece of information could be taken either way. I think it`s either way, it`s all up to interpretation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s the thing. She initially denied that she was there and we`ve had her on the police interrogation tapes where she denies that she was ever there. And then when the prosecutors confront her with all the facts, she said, oh, yes, I was there but two ninjas in masks came in and they did it. And when they proved that that was an absurd, she finally admits it Jean Casarez. So as you hear all this and we try to figure out what information does this Gus Searcy have that could blow the case wide open.

What are your thoughts given that if she did visit him, she was pretending and coming up with receipts and everything to try to show that she didn`t even go there?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Right. Well, we`ve heard nothing in evidence so far that she even met or saw someone named Gus Searcy. But if he`s going to testify as to something Jodi said, it has to be against her interests. Because if it`s something that helps Jodi, that`s self-serving hearsay and Jodi has to say it on the stand, not this guy.

Now if he personally observed something or if there was a text sent to him maybe from Travis then that potentially could come in. But not something that helps Jodi.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right, Jean, if they had a conversation, he couldn`t just repeat the conversation. She`d have to take the stand. So it has to be some kind of physical evidence. Darren Kavinoky, what do you think it could be?

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`m not sure what it could be. It better be blockbuster or else Gus Searcy is more than just a performer. He`s a big blusterer. But as much as Searcy may be a performer, there`s another performer in that courtroom and that`s Jodi Arias.

And given what we know about her through the multiple stories that she`s given on all of these interview tapes, you`ve got to wonder is some of the performance that we witnessed in court today, some of the fireworks between the prosecutor and Searcy, what impact might that have on Jodi`s decision ultimately to take the witness stand or not. Because Jean is absolutely correct that these self-serving admissions can`t come into evidence through Searcy and it`s all seemingly too thin at this point for her for Jodi to launch -- to make a legitimate run at self-defense. She has to get up there. Boy, she`s got to be nervous about that notion now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And we`re all over this trial. Of course, tomorrow the defense case begins and on this show we`re going to have an exclusive guest-- a close friend of Travis who also knew Jodi. That`s right here 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And it`s going to be a big day in court tomorrow, so I hope you join us for that.

Don`t go anywhere, because we`re talking about a brand new development in the Casey Anthony case -- a reporter who spoke to Casey right after she declared bankruptcy just a couple of days ago.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony flat broke, actually more than flat broke. She`s about $800,000 in debt. But she just wants to clear all that up and make it all go away and let`s declare bankruptcy and just start from scratch. Does she have a deal in the works?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She seemed eager to move on with her life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony says that she`s bankrupt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next chapter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be particularly naive for anyone to believe that she could go out and get a job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She claims she owes nearly $800,000 in debt.

CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR DAUGHTER`S DEATH: I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sees a light at the end of the tunnel.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, first she`s acquitted of murder. Then an appeals court throws out two of her four lying convictions. We all know she`s a liar. Now will Casey Anthony be able to clear almost a million dollar this is debt, just wipe her hands clean of them?


CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk, then --

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen.

CASEY ANTHONY: Give me three seconds to say something.

CINDY ANTHONY: Go sweetheart.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on. I don`t know what`s going on. My entire life has been taken from me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, now she wants all her debts to be taken from her. And I`m holding in my hand her bankruptcy filing, something like 40 pages, ok? Basically she doesn`t want to pay any money, ok? In court documents Casey says she`s got about $1,000 to her name and nearly $800,000 in debt.

I`m going to talk to one reporter who spoke exclusively with Casey right after she filed for bankruptcy. But first, to my legal panel -- yes or no: should Casey be able to simply file for bankruptcy and wash her hands of all the money she owes, including upwards of $70,000 to taxpayers?

All right. Brian Silber, start it off.



SILBER: Jane, I`ve got to tell you, if you are somebody who is offended by the fact that this woman was found not guilty of murder, this should make your head explode. I mean on top of walking away from that charge, she`s now going to have absolutely no financial responsibility.

Let me tell you something. As a criminal defense attorney, that offends me. And I`m going to tell you why. She should be kissing the butt of that Jose Baez for saving her life. She should work triple jobs, double jobs, whatever it takes to pay back her debts.

To tell me that now she`s going to walk away with a clean slate? Guess what, she already got her new start. She`s not facing the death penalty or life in prison.

KAVINOKY: Time-out. Maybe she should be paying back Jose Baez, but this is still America. She has an absolute right to file bankruptcy. She`s filed bankruptcy. And actually Jose Baez should also be kissing her feet. Frankly, Jose Baez who apparently is going to be out about half a million dollars in legal fees, his name is part of the national/international lexicon now.

He`s now considered to be more than a lawyer. He`s a freaking magician for getting this woman out of this mess when she`d already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. She`s legally entitled to it. She gets it. It should be a nonissue. Of course she can file bankruptcy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. I disagree 100 percent.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something. It`s not that -- ok, she owes half a million to Jose Baez. All right. He can fend for himself. He made a lot of money off the case in the sense that he is the most famous lawyer practically in America right now. But what about the Orange County Sheriff`s Office --- $146,000?

Here is all the money she owes: $145,000 to the Orange County Sheriff`s Office. Remember, they searched for a little girl who they thought was alive when Casey knew that she was dead all along. And then the IRS almost $70,000. Why is it that we all have to pay our taxes and she doesn`t?

And I want to go to Michelle --

KAVINOKY: Those are the rules of the game, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. President and co-founder of the National Women`s Coalition against Violence and Exploitation -- you used to do PR for Cindy and George. You flew down to Orlando and spent a lot of time looking for little Caylee on the assumption that she was alive and kidnapped because that`s what that woman right there, Casey Anthony told you. How do you feel about her filing for bankruptcy and trying to wash away all of her debt?

MICHELLE BART, NATIONAL WOMEN`S COALITION AGAINST VIOLENCE AND EXPLOITATION: Well, you know I don`t know how to follow those attorneys, but I guess there is law that allows her to do so. Whether or not she should is another question.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you feel, Michelle? I`m asking you how you feel. I asked you how you feel about it.


BART: Well, I feel that, you know, a lot of people looked for her daughter and she owes us the money.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to Sharlene Martin, who happens to be my book agent and has helped me publish a couple of books; and a great friend, as well. But she`s also dealt with a lot of high profile cases -- books involving O.J. Simpson, the Jodi Arias case, the Amanda Knox case.

Does she think that Casey Anthony is clearing away her debts in order to make money on a book or movie deal? When we come back.


CINDY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Zanny?

CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee. I forgive her. My only concern is that Caylee comes back to us, that she`s smiling and she`s happy and that she`s ok.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to Tex and Dexter -- what a pair. And Blade looks like my little Foxy. Shelby taking a nap; I`d like to take a nap. Doc -- wow. You`re wise. Wise, wise puppy.



CASEY ANTHONY: This is, again, the first of many and I`m looking forward to this. It`s a little scary because I hate being on camera, but I don`t know. I need to conquer that fear at some point, and this is a good start. So there`s something. It`s the end of the first -- just the beginning.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam Longo, reporter to our affiliate KPHO, you interviewed Casey Anthony in an exclusive interview right after she filed these bankruptcy papers. What did she tell you? How did she sound?

ADAM LONGO, REPORTER, KPHO: She sounded eager, Jane -- eager to move on with her life. She sees this as just one chapter she wants to be able to put behind her, and being able to go through this bankruptcy process. She`s hoping that will do that for her.

I want to pick up on a point though that you were talking about with your legal analysts just a moment ago about Jose Baez and the $500,000 that`s listed in those bankruptcy documents. What isn`t clear at this point is if there`s any sort of signed document that exists or any financial agreement on paper between Jose Baez and Casey Anthony as it was explained to me, the 80 or 90 some debtors that are listed on those bankruptcy documents are people who could potentially come after her and potentially make claims against her, so we don`t know if that`s where the legal fees were capped off at.

We do know this. Jose Baez would have to make a claim in bankruptcy court, and if he did that, he would be doing something he`s never done before which is sit across the table from Casey Anthony instead of next to her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`re not so worried about him. Sharlene Martin, my literary agent, do you think she`s going to make a book or movie deal?

SHARLENE MARTIN, LITERARY AGENT: I don`t think there`s a buyer out there for a book or movie deal for Casey Anthony. You know, a quick scan Jane at Amazon today shows there are no less than 17 books already out there about this particular case including Jose Baez`s book and Jeffrey Ashton`s book, which, as you know, was just made into a Lifetime movie that aired just a week or so ago.

I don`t see that there`s any room left for her. I don`t see anybody stepping up for her. I don`t think that anyone wants to pay her what would be considered blood money in the publishing world.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well put, Sharlene Martin. Always you have a way with words. More on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam, you talked exclusively to Casey Anthony. Do you think she`s going to do a book deal?

LONGO: You know I`ve talked to her more times than just this once, Jane. This was the only time that was on the record and I have to tell you frankly the sense that I get from her and from her legal team is that she`s not out to make money. Everyone has this misconception that that`s the next logical step in her life. And all the indications are, the impression I get from her and her legal team, they have no intention of doing that. They`ve said so much on the record here in the past couple of days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I guess the reason people ask that, is that how is she going to survive? She can`t just get a job at a dry cleaner`s or something because we all know her and don`t love her.

Nancy Grace up next outside Jodi`s jail.